The Hook

I have to defend the Premier on this...

I mean look, the Great Recession is just about ending. Nobody really knew when this would happen.

And who in their right mind wanted the BC NDP socialist professional politicians back compared to a competent, moral manager named Gordon Campbell?

Who in their right mind thinks Gordon Campbell is stripping the cupboard?

Who in their right mind is recommending cuts for that matter?

Josef

Your joking, right? [EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULT. -MODERATOR]

Is Gordon Campbell In His Right mind

I'm just curious because the 2008 budget was in a deficit and yet there has been no word of that.

And there are many other mysteries that have yet to unfold like the 2009/2010 budget deficit. Take the Liberals word for it why don't you which is the real mystery to me is why in the world would anybody put in a leader they didn't trust? Along with a very large mystery donation to the UBC who felt it in their best interests to endorse Campbell for the 2009 election.

On the question of the deficit...........

.... I understand that RAV is now said to cost $2.8 billion with $800 million in different government accounts.

The Susan Heyes lawsuit debacle may add another $100 million if all Cambie St. merchants sue.

The forest fire season is in full swing and if predictions prove correct, it could be a record year.

Of course the Olympics are going to add at least $1 billion to BC's deficit as corporate money is not coming as fast or much as predicted.

Added to this is the health care fiasco and the tourism fiasco and we may have $5 billion deficit for 2010! Now that's an Olympic figure!

Josef

You should do some more research.

In the past 30 years NDP governments have run fewer and smaller deficits than either Liberals or Conservatives.

Therefore, what the hell are you talking about?

G West

[PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

The BC NDP wanted to tax booze $3 a 6-pack, kill jobs by raising min wage w/o business consulting and kill IPPs. Now you tell me who exactly can run a government - Carole "Luongo" James or Gordon Campbell who will tax shift onto carbon, work w/ business that PROTECTS jobs and expand clean power.

G West...

[PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

From 1991 to 2001 BC's debt doubled under the NDP... and that was with an additional annual ~$2 billion under the NDP's tax regime that was eliminated post-2001.

BC'ers were so fond of the NDP that they received the largest whacking in BC political history going to 2 seats out of a 79 seat legslature in 2001.

Ontarians were so fond of the Ontario NDP under "Pink" Floyd's financial management that they got whacked decisively in 1995 and have remained in the cellar ever since.

Heck, even Carole had a projected budget deficit $1 billion higher than anything the Libs would bring in... the $600 million annual hole in the provincial coffers by eliminating the revenues fom the carbon tax but keeping the offsetting tax cuts...

...putting a damper on the annual $5 billion NE BC natural gas development industry with the silly $400 million "flaring tax", etc., etc.

Ya also better come to the realization that the Libs stayed home this election in droves and at least 10% of that 42% NDP vote was anti-Gordo... not pro-NDP.

With Gordo gone pre-2013, that will certainly change. Dianne, are ya listenin'? :)

Ticks

Ticks suck the blood from unsuspecting victims. Funny how campbull is sucking the blood out of B.C.s lifeline. Unfortunately lieberal suporters actually like being sucked and defend with pride how much blood their willingly delivering. I prefer to defend my blood letting. Hydro, goodbye.B.C. rail goodbye.Child poverty hello.Homelessness hello. Lowest minimum wage hello. Basi,Virk raid never ending ( 25 million defending).Real estate heist 300 cool million to their forest buddies yikes!Bill 29 compensation found unconstitutional (thank God for the courts) 100 million. Over budget 400 million on convention center (barf)Highest gasoline taxes in Canada.And a 495 million dollar deficit who are you kidding stuffed. Get real or make a deal and move south where you belong republican hack.

My Premier tells the truth...

Just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLdl8HlojdU and decide for yourself. That's the Premier at his press conference griping about an economic state of flux.

Only hyper partisans would go after my Premier on this. [PERSONAL INSULTS REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

frankly, Josef

it would be easier just to tell you to "get stuffed" yourself.Really if you examine the comment threads, you can see for yourself that almost everybody who could be descibed as "hyper partisan" is defending the premier. Which kind of begs the question - why does he need so much defending?

Now here at the Tyee we like smiley emoticons and posters who put forward a thoughtful and reasoned analysis - feel free anytime. :)

VivianLea, I submit as Exhibit A

scambull's ticks comment.

I salute Premier Campbell for his style of leadership. Unlike the far-right George W. & Jim Flaherty and the far-left Barack Oh our centrist moral Premier is not spending debt as far as the eye can see. He's a calm, competent, no-pizazz, no-nonsense manager.

I flip off all the BCLibs at home who don't rise up and defend our man. For a long time, we've needed to defend our corner against NDP smears like "lying slug", tick and the like.

Close the comments.............

............the Liberal Trolls are in attack mode!

Thanks Grumpy

You advance the BCLib agenda to "Keep BC Strong" by showing this blog's true NDP colours with "Close the comments............." because you can't dogfight. As my hero Mary Polak, M-L-A (just love saying that for as long as I can to rub it in) said, "I've seen some interesting phrases. One of my favourites is "evidence-based decision-making." If you're going to move to evidence-based decision-making, I suppose that begs the question: what on earth did you make decisions with before? By its very nature, decision-making is based on evidence."

Our Premier is dealing w/ very shaky evidence right now due to economic uncertainity. Only people who don't pay attention to business news sections don't get that.

Josef, Josef, Josef...

You've been totally sucked in by the BC Lieberals. The NDP wanted to add the $3.00 tax only to "private" liquor stores, from which British Columbians make absolutely nothing and who buy liquor from the province at a far cheaper rate. It's also funny how every province in the country has raised the minimum wage without killing jobs, as you claim. And, the NDP never said anything about killing IPP's; they want a moratorium until studies are done, which considering the impact on our rivers, is a very, very good idea.

Your Premier has lied through his teeth about this year's deficit; which he knew was lo-ball before the election. How anyone could believe otherwise must be extremely naive.

What a sucker.

Josef/ Luke

I reported your comment as offensive Josef.

Luke - you know I'm right - why not just let it go?

If you look at all the provincial governments in this country over the past 30 years you'll find that NDP administrations ran small deficits than either the Con Men or the Liberals.

It's a simple fact - I know you don't like it, but it's true.

G West

Nice try.

I know the Tyee blog is for left-wingers, but came anyway since BCLibs needed rapid response & I need a favour from them over the summer.

sunshine girl thinks socialism provides sunshine...

Because British Columbians who work at private liquour stores make money. So do BC Gov't and local governments whom get taxes & fees from those stores.

Oh and you versus the BC Coalition of Business? I'll take the latter on min wage, thank you. Saw the YouTube.

Finally as to IPPs and run-of-the-river, a moratorium is a ban for a while possibly permanently. Thousands of clean power jobs would be lost, full stop thanks to that policy.

A majority of voitng British Columbians love their jobs and love liberty, hence votes for BCLibs. G*d bless Premier Gordon Campbell, M-L-A. Now go report me as offensive.

Earth to G West...

You are obviously not a very long time BC'er and didn't live in Ontario in the early 1990's. But I digress.

A recent snapshot of BC'ers opinions:

From Frank's favourite pollster Angus Reid:

Lib - 50%
NDP - 22%

http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/uploads/pages/pdfs/2009.05.08_BCProv.pdf

Mustel:

1. Economy:

Lib - 56%
NDP - 22%

2. Government Spending:

Lib - 46%
NDP - 25%

http://www.mustelgroup.com/pdf/20090507.pdf

These in sync Angus Reid/Mustel numbers speak volumes and for themselves.

I rest my case.

[PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED.

[PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Omg.

Competent? Moral? Lol, ya gotta' be kidding, right? [PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED. IN ADDITION, REFERENCE TO NAZIS SHOWS THIS THREAD HAS LOST ALL PURPOSE AND DIRECTION AND IS NOW CLOSED. SEE GODWIN'S LAW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law -MODERATOR.]

Oh Well

The faithful can fight it out in the next election in 2013. They'll lose again, but hey, they like losing.

Wilf, dear one

Thanks!
:)

Opinion polls, fools and maggots

Anyone who uses public opinion polls as the basis to form his or her opinion is a fool. Anyone who continually uses public opinion polls to try to convince educated Tyee readers what they ought believe is avoiding discussion and dialogue based upon the free exchange of truth. Just because a majority of people have an opinion does not make that opinion good or truthful. Public opinion has changed on a variety of issues over the course of human existence. It used to be public opinion that the earth was flat, that kings were decended from god, that maggots magically generated from rotting meat.

Critical thinking demands searching for truth. For eight long years, CanWest Global, CTV, and Black Press should have been publishing daily headlines and lead stories about how this Campbell government lies, cheats and steals. There should be daily commentary about how this government promised to be the most open and accountable when, in fact, it has created the most secretive and elaborate propaganda machine of any province in Canada. Democracy under this government and with the main stream media is a joke. BC is on it's way to becoming a corpse; Its flesh is beginning to rot, be consumed. Objectivism/neoliberalism is the disease that has been weakening this beautiful province. Big (mostly international) business (which includes the main stream media) are the carrion fowl, and the BC Liberal Party elite are the maggots that consume what the carrion fowl leave for them. [PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Luke

Those are 'opinion' polls - they mean nothing.

The facts and the record are clear - NDP governments manage the public purse better than Liberal or Conservative Governments.

I know you NEVER post anything but polls, but this is ridiculous.

Argue black is white till you're blue in the face - it doesn't change the reality.

Apparently the people of Nova Scotia are smarter than the people of BC - or so the POLLS tell us.

As for me, I'll wait till the vote is in tonight.

I am neither surprised nor that amused

at the reference to Nazis. Just have enough comment threads going and sooner or later a reference to the National Socialist German Workers Party (aka NSDAP) comes up.

SharingIsGood....

You're certainly an individual full of hate. Typical mindset of hard core left-wing NDP'ers IMHO. I feel sorry for ya.

So ya said that you were gonna leave BC after the election and move to Nova Scotia. So much for your credibility. :D

As for G West, he's still living in la la land. Both BC and Ontario were financial basket cases after the end of their respective NDP reigns.

Both provinces were at the bottom of every economic/financial indicator when the NDP left. And the public deservedly gave the NDP an electoral kick in the rear end.

And today the NDP will win a majority government in Nova Scotia. With Dexter promising the lowest taxes of all major parties and everything else to everyone, he will be just another one term wonder.

People always need live and learn.

Well, it was said of Hitler

"He's a calm, competent, no-pizazz, no-nonsense manager" , or something of that sort, when he engineered the final solution for the Jews.

But you never answered my question, Josef -why does the premier need to be so strenuously defended? Is it the whiff of civil unrest as the people are offered circuses, but not bread?

luke

No point in arguing...please - just look at the record. NDP provincial governments in Canada have a better economic performance than either Liberal or Conservative ones; they heve fewer and smaller deficits.

Because you can't refute facts you fall back to polls which are meaningless snap shots of the opinions of stupid people who are largely uneducated and misinformed.

As for Sharing is Good, you clearly don't read or remember very well. I agree Nova Scotia is a basket case - it's had right wing government now for how long?

Oh yeah, I remember, FOREVER.

BC won't be far behind with our DUI premier behind the wheel for another 4 years Luke.

BTW, since you pretend to know something about economics and tax policy, perhaps you'd like to deal with this:
http://tinyurl.com/mcye5c

Luke

Just tagged you with an other 'personally offensive remark' citation.

Have you ever considered that your arguments, such as they are, tend to have an increasingly diminishing impact when larded with ad hominem offensive references to your interlocutor?

Something our new friend Josef ought to take to heart as well.

Have a nice day boys.

I'm sorry Josef..

because British Columbians who buy from the government liquor store contribute money back into general revenue. All buying from a private store does is make some owner richer. He/she also pays their employees a whole lot less than the government store does while their lives are actually at risk while at work.

Yeah, the BC Coalition of Business is definitely "god" in Canada. Haven't you noticed how much attention the rest of the country paid to them on the minimum wage issue? And all those other national businesses are going down the tubes faster than a wink, eh?

"Finally as to IPPs and run-of-the-river, a moratorium is a ban for a while possibly permanently. Thousands of clean power jobs would be lost, full stop thanks to that policy."

You see, that's the problem with you wingnuts. You don't listen. Someone says "moratorium" and you hear "ban for a while possibly permanently". You've got the NDP instituting a policy that hasn't even be voiced. I happen to think this issue should be studied fully. The damage to the creek and river beds from previous logging will be nothing compared to run of river. Our hydro costs will skyrocket; while we taxpayers subsidize Americans. And it's not like our salmon already aren't struggling enough what with all the fish farms (and the crap accompanying them)they have to steer around. How anyone wouldn't think that is worth discussing is beyond me. Course, you're probably a city person. Not all by any means, but an awful lot of you figure the world revolves around you. Have you ever even been up Bute Inlet?

And actually, I don't think that most British Columbians love their jobs; although I'm sure we all love liberty. But who knows what that has to do with voting Liberal. And the majority didn't.

G West...

Petulance is thy most well-known character trait. :D

Had to do it...

But suggested as offensive a comment comparing Premier Campbell to well, you know. It's comments like that which require defending of the Premier. Perhaps the BCLibs need to sick an attack dog on this blog 24/7/52 just to rebut all the smears. In fact, it's hard-leftists more known for smears than anything else.

Moderators:

Why is it that luke skywalker can violate your 'rules' with respect to personal remarks with impunity?

It makes the whole 'Tyee' exercise a bit of a joke, don't you think?

posted at 9:17am - June 09, 2009

Just the Facts

Although Luke prefers opinion polls the fact is the Department of Finance looked at the books of the provinces over a 22 year period ending in 2007.

In that time the NDP balanced the books 46% of the time.

The Conservatives balanced the books 35% of the time.

And the Liberals were the worst, balancing the books only 21% of the time.

As for Bob Rae in Ontario, he's a federal Liberal now, a shoe-in for a top cabinet post in a Liberal gov't, perhaps even Minister of Finance, and you voted for him.

"The Great Recession"

"The Great Recession" is just about ending?

So why are we running huge deficits for years if the Right thinks it was only a 6 month downturn in Canada?

Good point Frank

I wonder why do Jim Flaherty & did George W. Bush back in his day ran huge deficits?

I wonder why is Premier Campbell being castigated no matter what he does?

I wonder how it can be fiscally liberal to run a small deficit in these times rather than cut services that'll allow the NDP in to blow the budget up. Or how can it be fiscally conservative to run deficit to almost $100 Billion.

You raise good points. I hope to hear more from you.

Josef

I don't think the NDP would have "blown the budget up".

Their past record doesn't support that assertion. I've offered the Department of Finance stats showing Liberals are far more likely to run deficits and after all its Campbell that owns BC's record for largest deficit, not the NDP.

Also, Campbell has contracted over 50 billion which is not being reported in the deficit figures.

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=be4c05c2-444b-4624-afbb-fb98ac8b799e

BC also led all provinces in child poverty and in the decline of full-time wages.

see this article
http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=f3bc45da-1a34-4836-829d-967c2cceb1a6&k=65123

"Over this five-year period between 2000 and 2005, B.C. and Quebec were the only two provinces to record a decline. In B.C., a province that experienced higher-than-average employment growth, median earnings for individuals fell 3.4% between 2000 and 2005. Median earnings in Quebec fell by 0.3%."

Earth to Frank...

The BC NDP ran continuous deficits from 1992 - 2000. The so-called "credit card" debt.

They doubled BC's debt from $17 billion to $34 billion in that time frame mostly due to piling on previous year's deficits cumulatively.

Sure there was a surplus in 2000/2001 but that was in part due to the $4 billion "Enron" injection from California and in part due to the higher, by about $2 billion/year, NDP tax regime.

BC was the most heavily taxed jurisdiction in North America outside Quebec and was last in all economic indicators.

Even a recent story here on the Tyee confirms that a leopard never changes its spots:

http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/04/10/NDPPlatform/

Thanks Luke

The NDP gets annoying and asinine after a while.

Luke

"The BC NDP ran continuous deficits from 1992 - 2000. The so-called "credit card" debt."

To make up for the loss of federal transfers due to Paul Martin's fighting of the federal deficit. Other provinces such as Ontario and Alberta responded to the Paul Martin cuts by passing them on and gutting their provincial services.

"They doubled BC's debt from $17 billion to $34 billion in that time frame mostly due to piling on previous year's deficits cumulatively."

Again, considering the loss of federal transfers running up 17 billion over 10 years in order to protect servieces is not bad. Why did Campbell set a record deficit when he came into power considering federal funding was being restored?

"Sure there was a surplus in 2000/2001 but that was in part due to the $4 billion "Enron" injection from California and in part due to the higher, by about $2 billion/year, NDP tax regime."

Are you telling me you're going to not count the sales of natural gas over the last decade when deciding whether Campbell ran a deficit? Either count them for both or for neither.

"BC was the most heavily taxed jurisdiction in North America outside Quebec and was last in all economic indicators."

The population was growing, services were better than next door, growth rates were good, the house simply wasn't on fire regardless of people like the FI and the Cdn Taxpayer's Fed declaring otherwise at every podium.

Gateway goes sour

I wonder what the spinmeisters in the Premier's Office are talking about today?

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it was a certain story from the Globe and Mail...

http://tinyurl.com/m7ouzt

LOL

"Why is it that luke skywalker can violate your 'rules' with respect to personal remarks with impunity?"

Call the Whaaaaaa-bulance!

WilFRED

Since appeals to reason, or repeated references to the Tyee's 'rules' and the increasingly one-sided way they're applied appear to have no effect on the situation I'll move my comments to another level and ask how luke got that excellent picture of 'you' to post above here.

Fact is my friend, I'll debate any of you, singly or all together, on the merits...and do it without the childish behaviour that ignores the facts and resorts to little more than day-care bad behavior and name calling.

Now why is it that you aren't prepared to do likewise?

Forgive me if I conclude it's because you don't have a leg to stand on:
http://tinyurl.com/33cl9e