Look who is talking!

Rafe was a member of quite a sleazy. slimey government, so he should know!

Thanx for the correction

Thanx for the correction Ramona777.

@ Kclear56 and alive

I too wondered about you comment. Campbell inherited two balance budgets and still after ten years he has doubled the BC debt from $30 billion to around $60 billion. Memory? I think yours is selective. Thanks G West for correcting him/her.

As for alive. is that all you can do but slime the messenger or do you actually have an opinion on anything that Rafe wrote. The fact is that even the Socreds under either of the Bennetts was not as slimey as this bunch of Campbell and Christy Liberals. They did not even come close!.

OK David

Now twice I have had to go through something called CAPTCHA This is getting annoying.

Love your commentary/letter, rantnic...

I was wondering when someone was going to suggest this approach attack on Campbell. If we all write letters to the various "intelligent" newspapers in England --eg Guardian, Independent,The Times, and The Mail --- we could truthfully put the kibosh on both Campbell and Harper. The Brits probably read the printed word more often than people in most other countries.

"Love your commentary/letter, rantnic..."

Me, too.

Good suggestion as well, Okanagan Orchardist.

I can only try

Of course I copied everything to my MP and to the leader of the opposition. I would not bother to copy anything to Harper as we all know how he listens.

leadership

As an undergraduate I was required to take a number of courses on leadership, and I found them very interesting, by and large. What is really fascinating to me is that while the courses discussed various aspects of leadership, the obvious assumption was that leadership can be taught. Leadership was also portrayed as arising from the ground up, if you will - and correct me if I am wrong, not from the assuption that a leader suddenly appears - preferably with integrity, of course - to save the day that seems to be common currency here.

There are a couple of reasons I think this is important: first, because as rantnic has demonstrated, anyone can take a leadership role on some thing. And the second is that would it not seem to be preferable to be modelling leadership rather than excoriating apathetic, ignorant, and unwashed voters? Truly, I do not know anyone who is apathetic - someone in that state would be treated for depression, very likely. Neither do I know too many people who have the wherewithal to invest money in the stock market, with respect, Rafe. Calling people apathetic who are struggling day to day to eat and pay the rent seems unkind at best. Those not struggling with those basic survival issues have the ordinary tasks and concerns and obligations of a human in the western world - and in case, you haven't noticed, we work a lot longer hours with less holidays in this country, I believe only the US surpasses us.Many of us work 2 or 3 part time jobs, but almost every family has 2 working parents, along with all the other duties and responsibilities of children.I think we know what long hours the professions work...

The world is a much more difficult place than even a short decade ago, for sure. There are a myriad of ways to work to change the world around us: I suspect that we might begin by listening to what people tell us about their ordinary daily lives, and start with some small act of leadership. To a great extent, that is what I see most younger people around me doing. They are not waiting for governments, or depending on union leadership, or even sitting about discussing the finer points of integrity - they are out working and volunteering and changing their neighbourhoods and communities for the better in more ways than you can count.

I wish we could stop villifying these people, for they understand that truly great leadership resides in each of us, and frankly, this has much greater import than any political party. The day that we begin to practise our own leadership is the day that no politician lacking exemplary honesty, probity, and integrity will be elected, ever again.

Vivian....

"Calling people apathetic who are struggling day to day to eat and pay the rent seems unkind at best. Those not struggling with those basic survival issues have the ordinary tasks and concerns and obligations of a human in the western world - and in case, you haven't noticed, we work a lot longer hours with less holidays in this country, I believe only the US surpasses us.Many of us work 2 or 3 part time jobs, but almost every family has 2 working parents, along with all the other duties and responsibilities of children.I think we know what long hours the professions work..." Vivialea Doubt.

I hugely enjoyed your contribution here. And much agreed with it.

Of course there are huge problems to mobilizaing working class (or "middle class" folk even, if that flops your crank) to act more aggressively and collectively in their own interests, especially on the heels of a relatively prolonged prosperity period such as we are now just coming out of. And now that the New Conservative Capitalism is looking once AGAIN, very much like a much older capitalism, such as we folks who experienced a bit of the pre and much of the postwar thought would never be seen again, we're all having more than a little trouble getting our heads around it. But Vivian is right... be degress, in a steady drip, drip, we should kid ourselves not, folks are. Some of us are just getting impatient, is the other side of it. :-) l0l

Again, a good piece Vivian.

It all starts with the individual

...unless I have integrity for myself it is hardly I can expect it from politicians.
It starts with the individual ...and it starts with going to vote and vote strategically if there is a real chance of getting a party in power that we all know is bad for Canada.
But, the majority did not vote strategically - except perhaps Quebec - so what do you expect?

A country's government is only as good as the citizens in the country itself. You may not like it but that is reality. In this country the majority of the people are out for themselves. Can't see ahead and when it comes to a bit of intelligence to cast the ballot ...well, you see the result we got.

I agree with envirowoman - it is just apathetic. This is currently Canada. The rich get ahead on the back of the poor. Unless people really stand up - this country is going to go down the path it is currently on - and we won't be very different from the US.

The Conservative government will turn Canada into another US state. And if people don't pull their head out of their behinds here in BC we'll get another conservative or liberal party and that will be it for the "best" place on Earth - oil tankers, selling of water, lumber etc. etc.

You shouldn't blame it on politicians. Blame it on the apathetic, greedy, jealous and lazy citizens of this country or this province who do not care about anyone but themselves. We deserve our government.

There are really unfortunately only a few people who get it.

Time to be educated

The trouble with billionaires - by Linda McQuaig

This should be a mandatory reading for everyone. After 1 page you'll know why.

http://www.lindamcquaig.com/TheTroubleWithBillionaires/index.cfm

Ahhhh....

...my weekly dose of moral superiority. Thanks Rafe.

Almost as enjoyable as seeing Christy Clark today touting BC shipbuilding as a viable industry with highly trained trades and technicians willing and able to build a new shipbuilding industry out here on the Wet Coast capable of taking on the world.

Lemeseee.... where have we heard that before?

Gawd, Christy, what kind of whore do you have to be, to be able to say that with a straight face?

I agree with Oh Canada (time to be educated)

When people believe the corporate media flaff (Kclear56 and alive, for example) and when labour leaders sit among the Marketplace Faithful, clinking wine glasses with the high skanks of industry, you know we really need to boost up our education covering politics and greed and the limits of the environment to sustain us all. We need to de-program the brainwashed.

I am embarassed

Kudos to rantnic for doing something.
Rafe's article and most of the comment is all about the problem.
When are we going to create some solutions and work on them?
How do you counter the corporate media spin?
How do you educate the under 40s who do not vote?
How do you get the corporate lobbies out of government?
Any ideas, ANYONE??????

voting

who do the BC Libs vote for federally?

Voting in Isolation...

Again... in my view, voting is NOT where it's at, critically speaking. When 39% of 60% of the eligible electorate can result in a Conservative majority... you simply have a problem with the process Houston. This first needs to be got through the collective head. This majority con/fascist government is more a consequence of this failed and gerrymandered system, than any failure of us Great Unwashed.

Even then, of the choices available, you might as well piss into the windward side of the ship of State.

Voting MAY have some marginal usefulness, and over time, the dynamics at work in the process are certainly going to evolve, possibly even improving the situation. And I won't say folks shouldn't vote. (Neither will I admonish those who think it is a waste of time and effort... cause they are not entirely wrong, in my view, currently.) I write-in voted for "None of The Above" in the last election myself.

But the main impetus/compulsion to significant "change" in the process, if historical experience is any indicator, is of far greater likelihood to come from a different direction than a bullshit electoral system. Masses in motion in the streets are of a far greater likelihood to cause fear and trembling in the corridors of privilege and ruling class power, AND a change in political choices within the system, AND in voting behaviours and results. There is no absolute solution, in and of any one tactic itself, in isolation, in all likelihood, but more likely coming at the problem from a number of different and converging directions. But first, and of the greater critical importance is... the demonstrated presence of large numbers of people on the streets, creating a new dynamic.

Year right he is a prince --- NOT !

Skywalker, I frequently comment on Rafe and his latest "issues", and my opinion is that the man is a rabblerouser, who writes for the chock-value and has no integrety left.

His latest column about past regimes is typical in the fact he leaves out the slimey past of the Socreds.

The party lead by a man who claimed to have a special link to God, while hammering away at the "godless socialists"---- that in a democracy where religion is not supposed to be mixed with politics?

A party that featured a minister of highways, whose relatives just happened to buy land where new roads was to be built.

A Caucus where the minister of lands and forests happened to be charged, and so on.

Maybe that is not slimey in your vocabulary?
Or maybe it is OK now because others were worse later on?

Year right he is a prince --- NOT !

Skywalker, I frequently comment on Rafe and his latest "issues", and my opinion is that the man is a rabblerouser, who writes for the chock-value and has no integrety left.

His latest column about past regimes is typical in the fact he leaves out the slimey past of the Socreds.

The party lead by a man who claimed to have a special link to God, while hammering away at the "godless socialists"---- that in a democracy where religion is not supposed to be mixed with politics?

A party that featured a minister of highways, whose relatives just happened to buy land where new roads was to be built.

A Caucus where the minister of lands and forests happened to be charged, and so on.

Maybe that is not slimey in your vocabulary?
Or maybe it is OK now because others were worse later on?

Integrity ?

One way, if I may suggest, to hold our elected officials responsible is to confront them with a simple ultimatum. That is a promise to never vote for them or support them if they can not answer one basic question with only a yes or a no. "Will you as an elected official immediately resign you office should your integrity or honesty be called into question for any reason?" The results of a "no"of answer should be obvious, the result no answer should be the same.

Write to your MP, MLA, Mayor, Alderman, even the dog catcher.

We get what we vote for

Whatever some people may think of Rafe, his point is correct. We need to demand integrity and honesty from our leaders.

But the system just doesn't work that way. Most voters don't want to hear their political leaders tell them the bad news, be it about the need to increase taxes to adequately support our public services, or that they would have to reduce or change their consumption activities due to directly or indirectly degrading the local and global environment, including climate change.

Instances abound of populist politicians and mainstream media in the pockets of big corporations who discredit those who may make citizens uncomfortable about the costly but badly needed changes to address such issues.

I've met and still know a number of politicians at the municipal, provincial and federal levels. Only a very few were lacking in integrity at the start of their political careers (yeah, there were a few scumbags).

But political demands, party rather than constituent loyalty, and the necessary but sometimes distasteful haggling of political compromise, it has gradually but steadily turned a lot of them to less than honest political brokers in their desire to move up the political ladder. Power corrupts.

There are current politicians serving with honesty and integrity today, but these rarely seem to get into cabinet or other positions of power. We haven't rid ourselves of the elitist "old boys network." Perhaps a new electoral system may improve this situation.

Labour and the middle class is under attack again. In the race for equality, it is very disappointing that so many would lower public sector wages and needed benefits, such as secure pensions or health and old age care, rather than trying to raise private sector renumeration and benefits. Competition to the bottom, while a few get obscenely wealthy. Shock doctrine in action.

I feel much the same as Jerry, in that the dropping middle class needs to further organize and act, but I don't see taking to the streets as a viable solution. Truly effective solutions still elude my feeble thoughts, but the streets ain't it.

Forget that idiotic Canuck street riot, although it does suggest a deep malaise amongst young people, even the elite.

Lets watch the Greek street activities, mostly by hard working middle class citizens who have been robbed of a viable economy by some upper middle class and elite groups.

Be careful when observing the biased media reports about early retirements and other so called unsustainable perks in Greece. It happens but it is much more the exception than the rule.

How this works out could be a portent of the future Canadian shrinking middle class. I would hope that we can do better.

The roots of integrity...and a serious proposal for change

In my opinion and experience, the roots of integrity are transparency and accountability. Our electoral system, based on the First Past the Post voting system in periodic elections to give terms of office to members of large, powerful political parties controlled by a single, often dictatorial Leader (such as Campbell or Harper), offers the voters neither transparency nor accountability. To even get elected in the present system, honesty and integrity are liabilities, not assets.

My proposal is to change this and reward, instead of discouraging integrity, by eliminating all of the above elements. In their place we need a system based on leaving the power dispersed amongst the voters, not concentrated in the leader of a political party. This is easily and efficiently achieved by having permanent local electoral offices in which community or neighbourhood members can organise, share information and ideas, and place or change their votes for all of their representatives, on every level of government, whenever they choose.

Everyone's votes could be kept track of at those local offices, much like a bank account balance is, and there would be no need for divisive political party 'brands' which only destroy the local cohesion that makes it possible for humans to live in communities and use collaborative problem-solving to resolve their differences and still meet everyone's real needs.

Representatives need to be facilitators, not dictators or the toadies of dictators. They need to help citizens find mutually beneficial ways of organising their communities and providing everyone's needs while preserving the ecosystems that the communities are an integral part of and making sure they can continue evolving in a healthy way into the future.

At the same time, voters can learn from their experiences and are motivated to participate actively in self-governance, which is what I thought 'democracy' was supposed to be about.

With permanent electoral offices, it will also be affordable and practical for citizens to bring initiatives and hold referenda votes in a timely manner on any issue for which they think it is necessary or desirable, and no prohibitive expense would be incurred for anyone.

Why don't we organise a Citizens' Initiative here in B.C. to demand this type of Electoral Reform?!

no long can we sit on our high moral horse..

No longer can we sit on our high moral horse vis-a-vis the U.S.A. .

Our fingers can now take a rest from over fatigue, from constant moralistic finger pointing at the States.

It's our mirrors we should be re-enforcing right now, with the expected persistent forced looking at ourselves, after a long while of moral absenteeism in the field of self -examination.

thanks...

For your kind words, Jerry - and zalm,for your acerbic, and thus refreshing words!

There has been some thoughtful commentary here, that gets us past 'the voters are idiots' mantra. The solutions are the point, I would think. Well, not solutions per se, but movement in the grand direction of real progress, anyway.

Hobson was here

"Even then, of the choices available, you might as well piss into the windward side of the ship of State."

Always a priceless choice of metaphor, Jerry. Aptly describes a modest chunk of my day.

Rantnic suggests:
One way, if I may suggest, to hold our elected officials responsible is to confront them with a simple ultimatum. That is a promise to never vote for them or support them if they can not answer one basic question with only a yes or a no. "Will you as an elected official immediately resign you office should your integrity or honesty be called into question for any reason?"

I wouldn't. Too many Hobson's choices exist in politics, much as I would like to get rid of them. It's not an adequate example, but Churchill was a good example of an immoral politician, proving it over and over again in his early years, yet I think it's fair to say nobody else could have kept Britain's faith and character in such top form while "selling" the war to the US as a moral choice in opposition to the greed of big business that would have been only to happy to cave to Hitler to keep profits up. It's likely no-one else in England could have spoken with the same authority or skill in that unusual situation.

No, we'd do far, far better to rely on facts, which are in too-short supply in political discourse these days. Add to that the fact that most kids find it cool to be disengaged in society's affairs during a time when they have the energy and integrity to intelligently discuss and call for change, makes certain that little will change in the coming decades.

In fact, that's probably a good word for our society - decadent. On the downward slide that nothing can arrest. Too interested in the 140-character tweet and the game-boy and the SUV and the health club membership to buff our aging bodies. no time for the important issues of our day if they can't be simplified to a ten-second sound bite or repeated ad nauseam on open-mouth radio.

Same way as you sell heair-shampoo!

How do you counter the corporate media spin?
How do you educate the under 40s who do not vote?
How do you get the corporate lobbies out of government?
Any ideas, ANYONE??????

Well, you tell two friends, and they each tell two friends, etc., etc. I agree with Vivianlea doubt that '...we might begin by listening to what people tell us about their ordinary daily lives, and start with some small act of leadership.' I have always believed this is the only way to change things for the better in a way that will prove sustainable. Someone wise said 'BE the change you want to see happen!' I am also grateful Vivianlea is presenting this viewpoint, for it seems she can do so without incurring accusations of being a wet-behind-the-ears goody-two-shoe, who has yet to grow up. Yippee. I also certainly agree with, and has said this even stronger before, that contempt for the electorate is fundamentally un-democratic thinking. The electorate is always right. for if it is sometimes proclaimed wrong, those who would make that judgment aspire to interfering with the democratic process. Vox Populi is the final arbiter of where society should be going, and all that is required is education and respect, not 'dissing'. Integrity is a strange bird. It can be defined as agreement between what one purports to be or aspires to being, and what one truly is. You might think you can further your ambitions and gain in integrity by some action, but if another person sees the fulfillment of his ambitions move to greater distance as a result of your action, both lose in integrity. Only win-win qualifies as a gain. This is why putting up with sleazy purposes and actions is not good for one's soul and ultimately bad for everyone. I believe people who know this and decide to thrive on it represent evil if indeed it exists anywhere.

"at some point, the public

"at some point, the public are going to demand integrity...."
oh please. you make it sound like news that we have corrupt politicians. Who keep getting voted in again and again...

The first time the Harperites were voted in as our government I hung my head in shame that this was my Canada. (As a senior, I'm used to B.C. being run by lying thieves.)

honest crooks

One thing about WAC Bennett and his gang at least they were honest crooks. You can trust an honest crook but never a sneaky one like we have these days.

We get what we vote for...

Well, I suggest that it is less that we get what we vote for, than who rules and controls the information access systems, what choices there are and are not in especially a fraud limited and dumbed down electoral system... and of course, the level of understanding and preparedness to act of the citizenry.

Though I do partly agree with your view, in that I do not either think that in and of itself, a mass citizen presence on the streets, as in Greece, is in and of itself enough to transform society, including power relations within the economy. The elements of both these, in the final analysis, need to be seized by people themselves, in my view, but putting in place even well in advance, the parallel organizational power structure mechanisms as can facilitate this creation of a new model political and economic democracy. (Which is a complex subject in itself.) Of which, as events unfold, there MAY be some use to elements of the old order and its mechanisms/parties etc. MAYBE.

But first, driving the change process, of attitudes, organization and choices there must be that critical element of folks on the street, forcing it all to a head, pressuring and later disarming the old ruling class order. Such does not happen of itself, or with the voluntary "granting" of the old order. Negotiation can, and should preferably be a part of the process, where there is that willingness, but in the end, it must be known to them that it is going to be done anyway.

So, while I certainly give pride of place, especially in the early going, to a working/middle class presence show on the street, there will unlikely be many other elements evolve over the process. No old ruling class order across history, has ever of its own processes, voluntarily relinquished its power under the threat of a vote of sanction in some governing house or council... but rather, only as a result of having been driven from power/having no other choice.

My view is, as this last Federal Election result demonstrates, that where a majority Conservative/fascist government can result from a 39% vote, of itself but only 60% of the eligible electorate... that process is highly unlikely to be a vehicle of serious, let alone transformative change in society and the economy. And that expecting otherwise is the height of a childish kind of political naiveté.

The mass of the citizenry get less what they vote for, than what they are prepared to seize. Power, like love, goes not to the faint of heart. :-) And the ruling class knows this, if you do not. :-)

Indeed, keep your eye on Greece, and Egypt again. It/they are going to be indicative of what is coming for the entire capitalist system, like it or not... in my view.

Oxy moron

Business ethics??? Not that I've ever seen. Only the lowly employee, certainly not management, or the royalty above them.
Why are ethics even taught in school anymore.
They are certainly not taught in political science from what I see.
Liers, thieves, politicians, business leaders, they are all the same.
Business does not have the ability to regulate themselves, that much we know, now how about govt?

well, dorothy...

I've been called everything else!

But I do want to briefly respond to your remark about under-40s who do not vote and zalm's 'disengaged kids'. The Stats Canada tables are very revealing in lots of wonderful ways, and one of the things they clearly show is a reduction in income (by percentage) for those under the age of 45, most especially in the last few years (this is also true for those over 65). They make so little money (look at those Stats Canada tables also) and they are working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet - never mind thinking about owning a home, or any of the other socially desirable goals