The Hook

Typo time

It should be too, I know, silly me!

The Streetcar Myth

The problem with Snell's testimony is that it was inaccurate and hyperbole.

It is true that GM, Standard Oil, and Firestone were all charged under the Sherman Anti-trust laws. Specifically, with "conspiring to acquire control of a number of transit companies, forming a transportation monpoly" and "conspiring to monopolize sales of buses and supplies to companies owned by National City Lines" (case No. 186 F2d 562, 1949). Only GM was found guilty and only on the second count.

Snell's claim to GM being charged with "criminal conspiracy to monopolize ground transportation" is erroneous.

Syd Adler, Professor of Urban Studies (Portland State College), stated that "[e]verything Bradford Snell wrote...about transit in Los Angeles was wrong."

In essence, "most authorities agree that trolleys bit the dust in LA and elsewhere not because of a conspiracy but because they were slow and inconvenient compared to autos, and in the long run just couldn't compete" (Straight Dope, 10 Jan. 1986).

Could we build better transit systems today: yes, but let's stick to facts and not rehash urban legends and myths.

Other sources

Meant to include these in the last post--sorry.

If interested check these out:

Bianco, Martha J. "Kennedy, 60 Minutes, and Roger Rabbit: Understanding Conspiracy-Theory Explanations of The Decline of Urban Mass Transit"

http://www.1134.org/stan/ul/GM-et-al.html

Cheers

GM builds buses and locomotives

General Motors builds buses (at least they used to!) and also locomotives, including those meant for passenger trains and commuter trains.

Note on the demise of streetcars

The main reason for the demise of streetcars was not that they were slow or inconvenient, an erroneous comment made earlier, but that that after WW2, most rail systems were "clapped out" after being in operation 24-7, with no renewals, during the war.

In Washington DC, during WW2, it was estimated that the streetcars did 30 years of work in 4 years!

The cost of immediate track and car replacement were staggering for the streetcar lines, many owned by the city. Transit monies from the federal government were nonexistent, which instead invested in new highway building and nuclear arms development!

The cities that bought up nearly new PCC cars (most modern public transit vehicle to date and still the basis of the Tatra product) from cities that abandoned their lines, such as San Francisco, Philadelphia and Toronto, retained and still operate streetcars. In an age of the auto and dwindling ridership, it was the streetcar lines that kept what ridership there was.

another product we need

If I were CEO of GM or any other automaker, I'd be retooling to build an internal combustion machine we actually need.

What the world needs far more than another iteration of the automobile is semi-portable power. The mfrs should be figuring out a way to build low-cost multi-fuel burning machines that can be plopped down in remote places and small villages around the world to provide electricity, water pumping and/or purification and perhaps a satellite link for broadcast media and Internet service. Add a communal kitchen and freezer and we'd have a truly miraculous machine. The juice could power a school and business use during the day, and provide light, heat for homes in the off-hours.

Given the mega-motorhomes already on the market, this aspiration is so within our reach it should be an embarrassment to the automakers that they have failed to successfully build and market this product, which would be in great demand.

Strip a car down to its essentials and lose the A/C, DVD player, power windows, etc and enhance the capability to generate electricity and you'd have a machine that's affordable and appealing to all the people who currently spend most of their day finding fuel and water. How much innovation has died on the vine because some bright kid has to spend most of her time hauling water? A few litres of fuel and a commitment on the part of auto makers to actually improve lives instead of destroying the environment could make a huge difference for the billions who face a daily struggle to survive.

Ticket to ride.

I read somewhere that when the price of oil doubles, triples etc. all these huge suv's will be too expensive to drive and will be cheap to buy or given away.

The suggestion was to link them all together and have them hauled around towns by a tractor or a hybrid truck as impromptu streetcars.

Don't believe the world will be getting a lot different?
Listen to Jeff Rubin on the CBC.
He is the former Chief Economist for CIBC World Markets.
He's just written a book called "Why Your World is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller: Oil and The End of Globalization." Link:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2009/200905/20090525.html

Maybe G M should have should have kept those streetcar companies going?
But then they wouldn't have been able to keep building all those cars/suv's until they went bankrupt.
Now they want our tax money in the form of bail outs.
Time to get rid of G M.
Turn those factories into worker co ops or some other kind of organization that will know how to respond to change.
And the G M management?
Their severance can be a ticket for a streetcar ride.

as I said on a different tread

The simplest version of vehicles for personal use is the cabin-scooters that were so well liked during the fifties in Europe.

The joke was that they were more like an overcoat than a car.
Meaning that you just fitted in there as one fits into an overcoat.

No frills and great economy!
Am I paraphrasing you Stump?

Windmills/tidal/nuclear power

They could make lotsa that stuff.

Windmills are so undependable, they are useless at producing electric power for the grid. They would however be really good at making synfuels out of electrically produced hydrogen and power plant CO2. Also good for GM - produce the gasoline for their cars.

Finally they could lobby for and join the movement to once and for all solve the up and coming global climate explosion by supporting and participating a World War Two type all out effort to build mass produced generation 3.5 and 4 nuclear power plants.

The lowly streetcar has changed..........

........to a high-tech vehicle that is:
1) low-floor, providing uninhibited access to the mobility impaired,
2) fast, with speeds exceeding 90 kph,
3) affordable with a modern tram costing $4 million to $5 million and,
4) long lasting, with a life span of over 40 years,
5) able to operate as a streetcar, metro or commuter train,
6) accessible, being able to operate in high-density cities, or in rural countryside and,
7) the only transit mode to date that has a proven record in attracting the motorist from the car.

This took many years of development for the streetcar/tram to reach the pinnacle of public transit excellence and I doubt the rubber-on-asphalt mind-set at GM could compete.

"Stevie The Rat"

Great article today-"Stevie the Rat" is Steven Rattner, Barack Obama's 'Car Czar'.

"Grand Theft Auto: How Stevie the Rat bankrupted GM".
http://www.gregpalast.com/grand-theft-auto-how-stevie-the-rat-bankrupted-gm/

@alive

I honestly believe people should be free to choose whatever transportation mode they desire. But, the full-accounting cost for those choices should be more accurately reflected in the actual outlay of $$$ by the individual. If you feel more comfortable in a sardine tin auto, then by all means that's what you should get. But you should also be prepared to recompense society for the pollution you'll cause, the additional road space required to travel at higher peak speeds, and the increased likelihood of serious injury to others your choice creates. This seems entirely reasonable to me. If you don't agree I'd be appreciative of any attempt on your part to explain why you'd be deserving of a 'free ride'?

southdeltawalker I read

southdeltawalker
I read somewhere that when the price of oil doubles, triples etc. all these huge suv's will be too expensive to drive and will be cheap to buy or given away.

In Europe, because of higher taxation, the retail price of fuel is already about two times the North American price. In Europe, they have such vechicles as the Land Rover, the G Wagon, the Volvo X90, etc.

Hi Rod

Yes..there still is high end luxury cars for the rich in Europe.
There are also great rail systems. The price of oil will more than triple-who knows how high?
Regular working folk like my neighbours will not be able to drive all these cars/suv's/fifth wheels.

Anyways the link to Jeff Rubin in my first post is interesting if you are interested.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

General Motors

...can't build cars worth a squat, what kind of streetcars would they produce? They have ripped the general population plenty; taking money for the problems they sell should be illegal. And I'm a "Chevy" girl, my dad drove a family of 6 across the States, to move us from Ontario to BC, in a Nomad.

As for Europe, they have sooo many diesel vehicles, models that repeatedly won't sell in North America. Driving standard too much?? Or is thinking too much? It can be a world of difference.

about tincan cars

"Strip a car down to its essentials and lose the A/C, DVD player, power windows, etc and enhance the capability to generate electricity and you'd have a machine that's affordable and appealing to all the people who currently spend most of their day finding fuel and water."

I fully agree Stump!
what is your problem?

Does it bother you that such "tincans" already were invented 50 years ago?
With todays technology they would be even better and hardly cause more pollution than my electric bike does.

The selling point is that, all jokes aside, these "overcoat-style-cars" do provide protection from the environment which my bike does not do.

Should such "tincans" catch on, the cities would soon be able to double the number of parking spaces and perhaps be justified in requiring 2 tickets if a monster car takes up 2 spaces?

ummm, please read my post

Hello Alive:

If you read my post you will see I'm advocating for a device to help people in developing nations improve their access to education and prosperity not talking about cars. If you believe a stripped down auto will succeed in the NorAm marketplace there's definitely room for new player in the game.

As to protection from the elements, some cyclists wear this new-fangled invention called the 'raincoat' Amazing effective. :-)

Others wear what's called a rain cape, which is a very cool poncho type arrangement you can buy at the Bike Doctor. It lets you cycle in your regular clothes without getting wet (if you splurge on some fenders for the bike or gumboots to keep your feet dry)

Lots of options for the discerning traveller, be they itty-bitty cars or what-have-you.

typo-madness

wow, that post is full of spelling fail. my apologies

Well...

If we are going to pull a story out of ether that GM could build street cars, why not publish one that says it can build Mars Rovers for people with no big toes on their left foot?

This would have just as much basis in reality as this piece.