The Hook

Banning Alexandra Morton

And the gold medal for shooting the messenger goes to..

boycott farmed salmon

we know west coast salmon are in grave trouble and should boycott consumption of farmed salmon until they clean up their act with contained growing systems isolated from wild stocks.

Much of the fish farm controversy

Much of the fish farm controversy exploded when the fish farm industry introduced the "exotic" Atlantic Salmon into the Pacific. Concerns were expressed that these exotics could come with disease that could wipe out our wild stocks. The exotics could escape and invade our rivers and wipe out our wild stocks.

The trouble is that the fish that we call the Atlantic Salmon once inhabited the Pacific as well.

About a million years ago before the Pacific Salmon species evolved, the more primitive Atlantic salmon inhabited the Pacific and the Atlantic Oceans.

When Pacific Salmon evolved, the Atlantic Salmon could not compete and died out.

The Atlantic Salmon is a sluggish beast, which gives it a temperament which is well suited to a fish farm environment.

The wild stocks of Atlantic Salmon on both sides of the Atlantic are in serious trouble, because of the poor survival of Atlantic juveniles (Atlantic's have very small eggs), and their slothful swimming behaviour.

Pacific Salmon die after spawning, which gives them the motivation to give it their all. Atlantic Salmon survive to spawn another day, unless they give it their all like the Pacific Salmon do.

The sea lice problems in the Broughton's are a myth. The Broughton's are a low salinity environment which kills sea lice.

Fish farms in the Broughton's have very few sea lice.

It is a pity that thetyee does not do better research.

What?

Illahie. What kind of crap are you spouting here? Where do you get your info? From Mad Magazine?
I can only surmise by your posts that you are a member of the present (non) government in Victoria or you are a spin doctor with the PAB. What an absolute load of Horse Pucky. You speak of a million years of evolution yet you appear not to have evolved at all.

When we introduce

When we introduce a new food source, we must do a complete and thorough study of all ways we can harvest and use this food source. All methods must be examined in public and these results must be made public. Only after such a study can we introduce and use this food source. We must do this so our food sources are sustainable and not harmful to the environment. This has not been done with Atlantic salmon. if you buy salmon in the Atlantic provinces, it is farmed salmon. Atlantic salmon has been almost wiped out. Why do you think the Norwegians do fish farming? Because there are very few wild Atlantic salmon. There are still a few left so the rich who have cottages on the Miramichi River can catch them for sport. But if people want salmon on the east coast, it must be farmed salmon. If we aren't careful, that's the way it will be in BC, our local salmon will be wiped out..

I get the impression

That North of Hope would not survive long in the wild.

What

Did Gary not understand?

What

Is PAB?

poison

Wanna bet they will introduce more poison to kill the sea lice?

Too bad that the poison also might kill us.

Ignorance is Bliss

Illahie

Either you are very uneducated or you are part of marine harvest(Norwegian fish farmers)

What part of culled fish in Chilean fish farms don`t you understand.

What part of Salmon enemia don`t you understand?

What part of lice infestation in Norway and Scotland don`t you understand?

What part of every single one of the hundreds of studies PROVING BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT DON`T YOU UNDERSTAND..

What part about the highly toxic chemical (Slice) that is used to kill sea lice don`t you understand.

What part of the Pacific ocean isn`t salty?

What part of billions of sea lice larvae driven by tide flushing through discovery passage don`t you understand?

Where is one single link to prove what type of salmon were in the Pacific 1 million years ago.

Where is one link proving the water isn`t salty at Haida Gwaii.

Those questions need answers.

Gary hit the nail with you, those statements are from someone extremely desperate to cast doubt,but the readers and the writers at the Tyee are very wise.

So in your moment of desperatness all you managed to prove is how uneducated and obtuse you are.

Don`t take offence ILL ahie

Just pony up some proof.

Alive

Mr. Alive, chemicals won`t kill the billions of sea lice larvae that sailed off in the tide.

BC Fish farms are already using illegal chemicals.

DFO just stopped testing for it, you can`t find something your not looking for.

According to some people

According to some people there's no climate change and global warming, and no sea lice, but there's lots of "wealth creation".

It is obvious that neither the provincial or federal governments are willing to question the effects of the fish farms, because they represent some of the biggest "wealth creating" frauds in human history "foreign investment" and the "GDP", licenced by our university economics departments.

I wonder where those clever economists have been to warn governments of the financial meltdown, but we sure can hear them predicting now that it is over.

Like hell it is. Hasn't even started with all the environmental and human destruction, fraudulent policies and accounting schemes coming home all at once, already killing not only the fish, but millions of humans every year, all over the world.

Ed Deak.

Gary Understood quite well

And he suggests that Illahie start today to study salmon.
Atlantic and Pacific are two different species. And of the five Pacific Salmon only the Sockeye is a plant eater. The sockeye runs are what are disappearing the fastest on this coast. Evidence indicates that fish farms have been operating when these runs pass by. Lice have been found on the wild salmon. Evidence also suggests that these farms have been closed when other runs pass them.
Your insinuation that the low salinity of the water near Broughton kills lice is false on two counts. First the lice adapt very fast in all waters and Second salinity is governed by latitude. Look it up.
The decline of the Pacific Salmon started in the early 70's. Witness the end of the Sun Free Salmon Derby for lack of fish. The Late 60's and early 70's is when the Fish Farms started to open.
What have you got to say about the OWNER of Marine Harvest plea to stop this madness and move the farms inland?
As far as PAB goes you have been around these blogs and in particular to know what the initials stand for.
I suggest that North of Hope would survive a lot longer than Illahie in the wild. I know I would and have done so.

For everyone else here as someone said above BOYCOTT Farmed Atlantic Salmon. If you can't tell which is which ask your butcher. I've been doing it with farmed salmon and US beef for years.

Ignorance is Ignorance

Haida Gwaii is 500 km off course.

Gary

This is getting embarrassing Sockeye are not plant eaters. They are plankton eaters, plankton, not plants. Zoo plankton in fact, one level up on the tropic scale. Zoo plankton are animals not plants.

oh ILL ahie

Your batting zero today.

The BC government changed the name of the Queen Charlotte islands to Haida Gwaii last year.

Although we always have called the Queen Charlotte islands Haida Gwaii.

Where is the Broughton Archipelago.

HMMM.

My guess is it`s next to Haida Gwaii.

Ignorance truly is bliss ILL ahie.

Have a look here.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/parkpgs/broughton/

Nice doing business with you.

Come back anytime eh.

And this

My relatives are very upset with fish farms at Haida Gwaii.

Or are you(ILL ahie)saying that my people don`t know what`s going on with our wild salmon?

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Aboriginal-Affairs/2010/02/15/ChiefsProtest/

Salmon Boast

Well actually you would be a little bit wrong. The Broughton' are sort of, a little bit below the top of Vancouver Island. The Queen Charlotte's are stuck up near the Alaskan border. They actually have maps and charts showing that kind of stuff.

Not the sharpest

knife in the drawer are you ILL ahie?

Perhaps another lesson is required.

Read the link,apologies accepted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broughton_Archipelago

Have a read,and explain what Wikipedia means by. When they say the Broughton Archipelago is the eastern flank of haida Gwaii(Queen charlotte island)

Thick aren`t you?

Maps eh?

Really,I guess having lived there a lifetime I`m mistaken.

It beat living in Disney land on planet pluto.

nano nano

Saanu Dang glidang

Dream on Mr. ILL

Now I get it

You are referencing Queen Charlotte Sound which goes right up to Black Fish Sound, which is adjacent to Johnstone Straits. Perhaps you do live in Disney land because you have no idea about the Broughton's. You do not even know where it is.

Shame

Chilean fish farm disaster

What do you say about this Mr. Ill

http://www.mail-archive.com/pen-l@lists.csuchico.edu/msg00493.html

Blame that on Alexandra Morten too?

nearly one million

Farmed salmon escape from norwegian fish farms.

An ecological disaster!

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Escapes_From_Norways_Fish_Farms_Threaten_Wild_Salmon_999.html

BC fish farms

Escaped farmed alien salmon in BC gobble up BC wild salmon smolts.

Escaped alien salmon located 40 kilometers away two days after escaping Marine Harvest fish farms with BC wild Salmon smolts in bellies!

http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2009/10/escaped-atlantics-caught-by-gillnetters-40-km-away.html?cid=6a0120a56ab882970c0120a6479f4e970b#comment-6a0120a56ab882970c0120a6479f4e970b

Plant

Glad you picked up on that Illahie.It shows you have finally started to read up and do some DD.
Now for the next step in your lesson. Find a Map of the globe somewhere that shows the configuration of the Globe a million years ago.
Lets not get carried away with your spin again though. Give us all the information you find IN Context. Oh, and reference the links as Salmon Ghost did.

Glad to know the facts from

Glad to know the facts from the "experts".

The sea lice and the fish farms have destroyed Norway's natural salmon stocks, but they've done no damage to BC's.

They wouldn't dare to do any damage! It would upset the governments and the Fraser Institute, who have all proven that there's no climate change and fish farms are a great benefit to the environment and the economy.

Too bad that no tar sands have been discovered in BC, so far, as they would really have made a jump in wealth creation, but the open pit mines and the sour gas wells will fill the gap and make great benefits.

Who sez there's global warming ? We had -7 C here in the Cariboo this morning, in mid February, and still have a few small patches of snow left in the forest, all of which clearly proves a global cooling.

Ed Deak.

The problem is we are not geting the facts

The problem is we are not geting the facts.

Thetyee will not report on the facts. DFO spent millions of dollars researching Mortons allegations. They found absolutely no relationship between fish farms and sea lice.

None

Crawford Kilian will not report it.

The only source that Crawford will quote is Morton, who blames everything but the Hatian earthquake on fish farms.

If one of Crawfords students wrote such drivel they would surely flunk.

Ill ahie

DFO hasn`t done any studies on fish farms,that`s not their mandate.

Stop the bullshit lies Illahie,you put your foot in it and your squirming.

I work for DFO.

DFO,they did know the east cod cod fishery was going to collapse,the cause,not over fishing.

The big reason was bottom dragging beams that destroyed the cod nursery,destroyed cones,turned a pristine bottom into a mud pit.
DFO knew that for years before the cod collapsed,DFO did nothing because of Federal politicians wanting the Eastern vote.
DFO has stopped testing for banned chemicals on BC fish farms.

So don`t bother insulting anyone with your false facts Mr. Ill

Your attack on Alexandra Morten is un called for.

I have supplied many links,you have supplied sweet nothing,your assertions are nothing but BLATHER,I know not your motive for your blather, but pony up some proof.

All you are doing is digging a deeper hole,and you are falling into that black hole of deliberate ignorance.

Gary

How about a reference to salinity in the Broughton's?

Please refere to figure 6 for a chart of the spring time salinity.

mseas.mit.edu/archive/PN07/atm_ocean_foreman_etal_2006_v440104.pdf

Sea lice cannot tolerate low salinity

The first post on this article.

I must say that the first post above is probably the dumbest I have read on this site ..ever. All the comments by the same poster after that are just an attempt to salvage some credibility...if that is possible. Nobody could come up with that kind of a reaction after reading the article unless they were paid by someone. Sorry Illiahie but Alexandra Morton is miles above you in the esteem in which she is held.

Last point

This is the last lesson for today Illahie.

The Pacific Ocean,salinity levels,the Pacific Ocean at the Equater is where it is the Least salty.

The higher and lower latitudes are slightly saltier.The reason is the percipitation at the Equater.

The levels of salinity are ripe for sea lice throughout BC!

Read the link,learn,learn to read,learn to think,maybe one day far far into the future you will be respected,or perhaps not!

Salinity in the Pacific Ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Ocean

lll... are you employed, an

lll... are you employed, an investor, or any kind of stakeholder in the fishfarms, and/or the member/supporter of the Reform Party under the phony names of BCLibs and Conservatives ???

As you're hiding under a plum name, you can admit it without interference with your freedoms.

The above haven't found any evidence for climate change either.

Ed Deak.

Illhahie

Does the term " self-immolation" mean anything to you?

Google it - it's your true calling.

Oh Illahie

What part of Adapt do you not understand?

I can see all you want to do is spin this blog.

I have asked for some proof as has Ed and Salmon Ghost. You offer nothing. Therefore my conversation with you is exhausted.

Sorry Ed I'll look further into climate change another day. I live just south of you at a higher elevation I think. We have only had two days below 0 c this month.
Where I usually have 4 to 5 feet of snow in my yard I see bare ground. Not very cold or moist where we usually see -10 to -20 at this time of year.

Salinity and sea lice

90 Percent of Broughton Island has spring salinity levels below 29 ppt as shown on Figure 6 on page 8 of the following report.

http://mseas.mit.edu/archive/PN07/atm_ocean_foreman_etal_2006_v440104.pdf

The "Survival of free-swimming copepodids was found to be severely compromised at salinity levels below 29 parts per thousand (ppt)"

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18128232

Gary, that's exactly what I

Gary, that's exactly what I mean. We should have deep snow, ploughing every few days,
-30 C, but all we have are dead forests, no snow, everything drying out.

We still have a number of old firs, 250-300 years, our oldest one is about 400 yrs old and dying at its top. If we have one more draught, that old guy will probably die and it breaks my heart.

The last time we had -45 to kill the bug eggs was in 1995.

But there's no climate change and the sea lice don't kill salmon, because the Fraser Inst. says so, so let's pollute more to "create more wealth"

For our dear foreign investors, while half million Canadians are running out of their unemployment benefits.

Ed Deak.

Illahie

Your last two links have answered all my questions.

Your links aren`t in english,they are in Norwegian.

Yes indeed, Mr. Marine Harvest

You have outed yourself.

I knew it,anyone who spoke with the vile you spoke of about Alexandra Morten had to be filling his pocket with money,money you made by killing off wild species around the world.

Your industry is done in BC,either get self contained on land or shut down,your choice,die or survive!...Target foods won`t sell your mushy fish.

I have first hand accounts from the Farmed Alien fish processers about mushy farmed fish,farmed fish with ulcers,sores.

I waste no more time with you!

Sea Lice linked to salinity not fish farms

http://www.growfish.com.au/content.asp?contentid=13802

The links above show that almost all of the Broughton's have salinity levels which cannot be tolerated by sea lice.

This squares nicely with fish farms in the Broughton's who report very levels of sea lice until the fall when salinity levels increase and wild adults return to spawn.

Question: If farm fish have no lice during the spring smolt out migration, how can the fish farm fish infect wild smolts?

This may explain DFO's apparent lack of concern about fish farms.

What remains to be explained however, is why is thetyee keeping the real story away from us?

introduction of a species

Here is an article about the introduction of a species in another environment.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-toads-conquered-the-world&sc=WR_20100209

Good day

The Broughton Archipelago is a group of islands on the northeastern flank of the Queen Charlotte Strait on the coast of British Columbia, Canada. The largest islands in the group, which includes numerous smaller islets, are Broughton Island, North Broughton Island, Eden Island, Bonwick Island and Baker Island. The islands are all located within the Mount Waddington Regional District which has little jurisdiction over them, as nearly all settlements in the area are either Indian Reserves of bands of the Musgamagw Tsawataineuk Tribal Council or fish farms under the jurisdiction of the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

And good Night

The archipelago is the traditional territory of the Kwicksutaineuk-ah-kwa-mish and Tsawataineuk subgroups of the Kwakwaka'wakw peoples and is the focus of controversy over commercial fish-farming by Norwegian aquaculture companies. One of the most prominent studies carried out to assess the relationship between fish farms and sea lice infestations on wild species was carried out in this archipelago in the spring of 2002.

Fiat lux

I have no financial interests in the fish farm industry.

I have taken part in a few research projects on fish farms in the 1980's, studying whether pentaphenols from fish farm nets could contaminate wild fish etc.

Fish farms are large international companies that ship their product worldwide. They do not really care about public opinion. It makes no difference to them.

They want to keep the regulators happy, and keep their fish healthy. They care about the needs of their customers and the quality of their fish. PR they have no use for.

Fiat lux

You asked about politics as well. I have no use for the BC Liberals.

The sell off of provincial assets to private enterprise is about the most serious betrayal of the public trust that a government can do.

I think one of the greatest things about our country is our social safety net. I am willing to pay higher taxes to get it.

I also think that it is wrong for the fish farm industry to be smeared with untrue allegations.

lll,....I'm glad we agree on

lll,....I'm glad we agree on something.

I don't eat fish because I don't like the smell of it , or of muttons. My wife is highly allergic to fish, so we don't have any special interest for, or against, fish farms.

However, as an "enviro freak", I fully believe Alexandra Morton, because she has absolutely nothing to gain by opposing fish farms and I have seen her and others on TV on a number of occasions, showing how the lice kills fish.

If the Norwegians now admit that the fish farms have destroyed their wild fish stocks, we have enough evidence that they're doing the same here.

How much more do we need ? Can we ignore their warning?

Why can't we have fully enclosed pens ? Because it would cut into their profits to take out of Canada, leaving destruction behind.

I can already see enough destruction by big business here in the Cariboo, like the now proposed Prosperity mine in the Chilcotin and what we see here in our neighbourhood gives enough proof to oppose anything that comes out of the multinational corporate mafia.

By the way, I've been an independent business owner in BC since 1957.

No PR? These corporations employ the best PR hacks and survive on brainwash all around. The "Prosperity" name alone shows how they think and what they do.

I've spent 45 years fighting communism and communist propaganda, so I know how predators work and now can see the repetition of their BS by their idiot twins the capitalists, using the fraudulent concept of "free enterprise" to collectivize everything, starting with resources.

Ed Deak.

Fiat lux

Closed containment is dangerous for fish farms and it serves no real purpose.

I am also a small business owner since 1986. 1957 was the year that I started to breathe.

How do you feel about a 2.5% provincial corporate tax rate? Is it corporate welfare?

I can see how someone would try to err on the side of caution on this issue.

However I have spent quite a bit of time in the Broughton's. I participated in several studies in the Broughton's for DFO during the salmonid enhancement era doing a baseline biological assessment to determine the feasibility of a proposed hatchery project, and also for Forest Renewal BC doing basic river habitat work.

I have followed the spring juvenile migrations, and measured the health and condition of Pink and Chum smolts as they migrated seaward. I have also followed the adult returns, and measured spawning sucess, and overwintering success, looked for disease etc.

I know that Morton is out to lunch on this issue.

I think that it was prudent that DFO took her allegations seriously, and conducted an extensive multi-year study.

We now know that her allegations were bogus. I do not care whether or not my rants change anyone's mind on this issue. I feel however that I must comment.

We know who Ms. Morton is.

We don't know who you are and don't know your motivation or anything else. You obviously need to hide behind a nom de plume. If we knew who you were and we were able to identify all the factors that influence your opinions we might either give your comments credence or it would confirm what we already know, that it is you that is "out to lunch".

Have you noticed, you have no supporters here.

Fiat lux

A question for you my friend.

From the information discussed above, it is apparent that you ahem may be senior to myself in age.

I suspect that many if not most seniors are invested in fixed income investments which are getting killed these days.

In the days of 1 percent return on investment how are seniors coping? By gut instinct says that they are probably terrified, but I do not really know.

DFO will kill the fish farm industry if the farms impact wild stocks. The wild stocks will survive.

The financial state of our nation seems to be much more insecure. Are seniors able to cope with our current low interest enviroment?

Illahie/[EDITED. -MODERATOR.]

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mispelled your name

Bernard Von Schulmann.

http://bciconcoclast.blogspot.com/

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