The Hook

It's not just Canwest

that's the problem. The media, period, is a problem, because there are things that they help keep secret for the Liberals. Now, I'm not saying they're doing it for ulterior motives, unless you consider litigation an ulterior motive. Taxpayers deserve the truth. No one will step up.

And I was so annoyed that the campaign messaging was so bloody disjointed. How many messages were there? 8 more years? Take back our B.C. No more carbon tax. That's three. No wonder the voter didn't know what the NDP stands for. The NDP didn't seem to know what they stand for.

Unfortunately, the gender quotas killed us too. I mean c'mon. We're not in the 80's anymore. It doesn't fly (and I am of that gender persuasion). We come off sounding like a bunch of loony lefty feminists with that ****.

I'm kinda mad right now. Can ya tell?

It was a great campaign for the base; but not for the voter at large. Out of touch, out of date, and out of ideas.

And look at the mess we're gonna be in for the next four years because of it. We all shoulda had a clue way back when James how goofy some of her ideas are. Not progressive.

When I get on a tear

I make rather large spelling and grammatical errors. Last sentence should read: "We all shoulda had a clue way back when James showed how goofy some of her ideas are. Not progressive."

My bad.

Whine, whine, whine

I tried to explain to a feminist NDP supporter why I found the Carole James tactic of opposing the carbon tax offensive.

I said the NDP should see if they can pick up a few votes by taking a stand against abortion, so the young women would have to go back to be killed in back alleys by the charlatans wielding coat hangers, then campaign among feminists saying feminists should support the NDP. I should have saved my breath: this NDP supporter was in full election mode. She whipped out her standard arguments, the Liberals are all criminals, they have ruined the educational system, they have ruined the province, we are Bolivia, we are Chile, the health care system has been ruined, there's nothing left, nothing, nothing at all, and on and on.

The Carole James opposition to the carbon tax, trumpeted from any and every rooftop she could find had so turned me off, had so offended my sense of what a progressive force ought to be associating itself with or standing for, that I simply did not care about a single other detail of what her party was saying.

New Direction or New Party?

Seriously, after this election it's clear that the NDP are going nowhere until it brings itself up to speed with the modern progressive parties. Until we have a left of centre party that can appeal to today's private sector working people, the NDP are going to be in the wilderness forever.

Perhaps it's time for progressives to do what they did municipally in Vancouver. It's time to cut the chord from the radical left, and form a "Vision Vancouver" style party for the province. It would attract a lot votes from the centre, while actually implementing some progressive principles.

Political Change Unlikely with Monopoly Capitalism

Like the rest of North America, BC is dominated by corporate agendas that care little about democracy. BC is a typical client state, which provides power, gas, (oil?), and other natural resources for extraction. In exchange, a local right wing party is funded and usually elected. As nearly every US state functions this way, the fact that 54% of citizens voted AGAINST Campbell & Co is impressive. The fact that BC has a strong, alternative economic party (the NDP) is amazing. We could be living in Alberta, where it is a virtual monarchy.

People should not discount the fact that BC HAS a real opposition, which gives us a substantial voice for the next four years. Believe me, had the NDP had 35 seats in 2001, Railgate would have unfolded completely differently.

I would rather have an opposition composed of many good people rather than a party led by a fabled Messiah who will be expected to lead us out of the wilderness. History shows this to be a very bad idea.

Blame Phase

Last night and to a lesser extent was the silence phase. Of course the Faithful had yet again convinced themselves of victory in the Cause of All that is Good and Righteous.

Now we are in the blame phase. That is blame everybody but ourselves. The fact that the NDP ran a dirty and unfocused campaign has to be discounted. It was all Canwest's fault!

Don't think the Liberals aren't reading every word here and laughing themselves speechless. They are. They are also comfortable that the Faithful will not use last night's defeat, and the identical defeat in 2005, as a lesson for future campaigns.

I, too thought the NDP

I, too thought the NDP campaign was kinda weak and didn't really throw any real punches at the Liberals. So the question has to be asked; did the NDP just go through the motions of an election and didn't really want to form the government? They know what the situation is and they don't think it can be fixed any time soon. Just give the Liberals 4 more years of mismanagement and they couldn't even be elected as dogcatcher in 2013. Let the Liberal self-destructuct. Meanwhile the province is going to be a shell of its former self; we're going to be sold off for a song.

The people in the back room

The people in the back room behind James were either dumb or if they were smart, she didn't listen to them. Horgan is a bit of a buffoon but a seat is a seat. The Libers would have loved to get rid of him.
They don't like his sometimes off the wall questions. Many of the Libs just sit there and collect the wages and gear up for their eventual pensions.

The voters make the choice and if they are not preparded to really follow the issues, well too bad for them and the rest of us. It would have been nice it more than 53 percent bothered to vote. Don't vote, don't bitch. Don't like the slanted news reports, don't buy the paper. Our local paper just decided to cut their seven day to six with no reduction is prices. will it keep suscribers? of course it will as people are creatures of habit. MY MLA won by a large majority and the one who came in third was the Green leader who was going to lead us all out of the wilderness

48% turned up? With less

48% turned up? With less than 50%; that should make the election null and void. With election reform the rules were 60% to pass. Any thinking Liberal has got to realize that this isn't a real victory for them.

Wilfred, all your comments...

...are predicated on the Liberals being able to keep CanWest in their pocket. You claim that pointing out the flaws in a government's record is a negative campaign. Hell, that is what an opposition is suppose to do. The positive stuff was in their platform. The liberals went around with their negative stuff about NDP in the 90's so the new guys must be the same. It's just bs and you know it. The CanWest media got Gordon elected that is clear to anyone with a discerning eye. The Liberal's "Keep BC Strong" was a hollow statement but that was fine with CanWest who never looked beneath the superficial slogan.

As for the rest, I think it is time for Carole to go! The Canucks need a new coach as well

leftofcentre

"Seriously, after this election it's clear that the NDP are going nowhere until it brings itself up to speed with the modern progressive parties."

Sounds very bland. Any actual ideas or at least a list of these "progressive parties"?

"Perhaps it's time for progressives to do what they did municipally in Vancouver. It's time to cut the chord from the radical left, and form a "Vision Vancouver" style party for the province."

Yes, its clear dividing into 2 parties would be the path to success. We're not successful now so splitting our vote should pave the way.

"It would attract a lot votes from the centre, while actually implementing some progressive principles."

Without the support of COPE, Vision wouldn't have got elected. The NDP would never disappear in favour of a provincial Vision.

I was scrutineering, and the

I was scrutineering, and the turnout at Shorline School in View Royal seemed rather sparse to me. I was able to cover two polls and there was almost never a time with people voting at both, though there were sporadic rushes at one or the other throughout the day. But it was almost completely dead between 7:00 and 8:00 when I assumed there would be a last minute rush. No rush.

The result in my riding was already decided and announced by before time we finished counting the vote on those two polls!

Canwest and Blackpress

Canwest and Blackpress muzzled so many opposition ideas including run of the rivers and Rafe Mair. Thank heavens for the Tyee to get some of the message across. Increasingly we are having to use email, blogs, and twitter to get the message to the people. No wonder the newspapers and media are crying about their bottom line. They have made themselves irrelevant as message bearers.

My impression after doing a

My impression after doing a little work during the campaign was that the use of computers by the NDP is still way behind the times and they need to learn how to do that end things a lot better. We were moving data from one database to the other by cut and paste! Ye Gods!

David Lewis

You said "I simply did not care about a single other detail of what her party was saying." It made me wonder how intelligent is it to vote on one single issue of a parties platform without considering all the others. It is that kind of narrow and green thinking that has me turned off the Greens altogether. There are so many larger issues than one Campbell cash grab that will do nothing. But then we've been all through that before.

Losing is tough, but it's

Losing is tough, but it's time to think about the future. This situation is also a great opportunity for that future. If, as I suspect they will (and I do hope I am wrong) the Liberals boot the economic situation and make it much worse than it would be anyway, then four years down the line the NDP may have the greatest opportunity to get in power for a long time that they've ever had.

But we have to do more than just wait for the Libs to self destruct. We need to take time to re-examine ourselves and re-tune our priorities and our approach. And when we have done that we need to start telling people about it in a smart way.

We need to be able to tell BC, truthfully, that we have re-examined ourselves and that we are more ready to govern than ever before. A phony re-examination worked for the Socreds in the 1970's, and a real one can work today for the NDP if we make sure people know about it when we have actually done it.

The greatest electoral opportunity of the century may lie just four years in the future.

Luke Skywalker

Hey Luke, if you're "listening", I wanted to chat about a few things like Mustel and Ipsos and Angus Reid.

Mustel claimed the NDP were 17% back as late as April 9th and even their poll right before the election was so wrong it was outside their own margin of error.

No wonder Mustel doesn't provide details of their polling, I think their critics are right, they just make it up and hope to demoralize NDPers to prevent them from showing up. A sort of self-fulfilling pollster if you will.

Face it, telephone polling is passe and Angus Reid has proved that both federally and provincially that they are the best pollster in Canada.

happy

What about the cheering over at the CanWest papers this morning? Are you saying that reaction isn't predictable?

Seems to me the NDP can only get its message out at places like the Tyee.

Offended me and you should

Offended me and you should put our opposite gender heads together.

the loons and the success-haters need to go as do those in the pockets of the labour oligarchies.

As GWest pointed out it's

As GWest pointed out it's less than 25% of the voters who voted in the Liberals. These are basically the same stats that got George W Bush elected. We don't have to be reminded what a screw-up he was. There's a correlation between voter turn out and stupid governments who are elected.

Or, West

Too bad then that only 43% of the 48%voted for the NDP. I make that about 21% for your side - using your logic.

Say, seeing as this article was penned by the same journalist as that devastating series on the German ferries I'm left wondering -

Why wasn't that front and center during the election? After having thier noses rubbed in it for years over the Cats you would THINK that would be huge for the NDP to run with. But nothing. Silence.

Which leaves me with two conclusions. Either
1) the NDP campaign squad dropped the ball
or
2) hearsay and pure bunk play well here but wouldn't cut it in the real world

My opinion

Blame

Interesting to see you all blaming everybody but yourselves. You lost. With the low turn out, that means on 21% voted for the NDP. Ergo, 79% of people do not support the NDP using your logic.

It is really hilarious watching the blame somebody else game.

David Lewis: Fabrication

David Lewis
The Carole James opposition to the carbon tax, trumpeted from any and every rooftop she could find had so turned me off, had so offended my sense of what a progressive force ought to be associating itself with or standing for, that I simply did not care about a single other detail of what her party was saying.

It's a fabrication to suggest that this is all Carole James talked about. It is all Mark Jaccard and David Suzuki talked about, but Carol James tried to widen rather than narrow the discussion on environmental policies, in contrast to Liberal academics who wanted to make this a referendum on carbon pricing.

I asked before and will do so again. Isn't this all just a reprise of your arguments in last Fall's Federal election? If so, how happy are you that Michael Ignatieff has officially and fully repudiated Dion's Green Shift?

Carole James

I realize many people can't bring themselves to vote for a woman as leader but...

Some quotes from an article in the Globe

"Agreed one supporter even before the polls closed: "She's been a rock. She brought the organization back from the dead in 2003 [when she took over]. In this election, she started slowly, but she kept going, and did really well in the debate. I would say she owns the place [the NDP]."

"I think she'll carry on," Mr. Ruff predicted. "Initially, she was regarded as an interim leader, but she's proved that she's more than that. ... And in this campaign, after a disastrous start, she came through in the last mile, just like the Kentucky Derby."

Prominent NDP MLA Adrian Dix called Ms. James a great leader. "I'm proud to serve with her, and I think all NDP-ers are proud of the job she's done."

4 more years :-(

If the NDP couldn't win after 8 years of Campbell & Co, then something has got to change. You can blame it on the media and just "try harder" next time, or you can do something about it.

Seriously, it's not as if the mainstream media rose up out of nowhere and all of a sudden started muting the NDP message. It's always been that way. NDP creates BC jobs building new ferries - "!cost! !overruns! !mismanagement!". Liberals oversee huge cost overruns on our new convention center - "bright future for BC as Campbell cuts ribbon". Glen Clark gets new deck - "media flood premier's yard for !corruption! !scandal! !seach! !warrants!". Campbell jigs bidding for BC Rail that he promised not to privatise, corrupt officials and bribery and insider information and raid on the legislature - "page 27 some stuff happened but no big deal really".

It should be simple to win an election against a government who contracted out BC Hydro billing to Enron's auditors, got us in the business of renting privately owned hospitals and renting out publicly owned rivers, illegally ripped up union contracts and ended up paying millions for it, were the only government in history who had the legislature raided by the RCMP, increased fees for everything from health care premiums to parking in provincial parks, presided over the most devastating period in the history of the forestry industry, actually created less jobs in 8 years than the NDP did in the fabled "decade of decline", etc etc etc. The Liberals are incompetent managers of our economy - where was that message? Was it anywhere that could be heard over Canucks mania? As far as the average voter is concerned, everything is peachy, sure there is a global depression happening, but Canada is doing better than other countries and BC is doing better than other provinces so what's the problem?

The problem is that the NDP didn't get behind voting reform in a meaningful way, and lined up against the carbon tax. 2 *stupid* *stupid* moves, combined with a lack of a voice that the average voter could hear, and you get a no better than average result. With no real hope for anything different next time around.

So depressing. No wonder I voted Green.

Need to find a way to route around the mainstream media and get the message out. Need to hammer and hammer and hammer on the BC Rail scandal, the BC Hydro robbery, and the facts about the NDP "dismal decade" versus the Liberal "sound economics". The NDP years weren't that bad and the Liberal years really haven't been all that great. Facts and figures. NDP created more jobs back then in the "hurting years" than the Liberals have in their "golden age". The NDP left power with a large auditor general confirmed budget surplus, the only "structural deficit" was the one the Liberals recklessly created on taking office. Destroy the widely accepted urban legend that the NDP are economically inept while the Liberals are highly skilled.

And leeeet's get reeeeady to reeeeecalll!!!!

Prince George -Mackenzie

A microcosm of the province as a whole? No matter how bad it gets, no matter how bad the unemployment or de-population, they mark their ballot for the right-wing choice.

mikev

All that said, knowing the truth of the matter, you still didn't vote NDP so what makes you think others would have if they knew the facts you knew?

Ed Seedhouse: "... use of computers by the NDP ..."

Ed Seedhouse
My impression after doing a little work during the campaign was that the use of computers by the NDP is still way behind the times and they need to learn how to do that end things a lot better. We were moving data from one database to the other by cut and paste! Ye Gods!

The use of CATI technology by the NDP has the not insignificant impact of making the record keeping on phone calls far more efficient and reliable. But it doesn't change the basic industrial era approach of a campaign boiler room reaching out to people at a time of the boiler room's choosing. This is not an Obama style effort at all. There's other problems too, such as the chronically idiotic pitch lines which have been dopey and flat footed for as long as I can remember.

What the BC NDP is doing is hooking up computers to the Yvonne Cocke 1966 Campaign Model. It's still intended to identify given voter intentions in support of an Election Day get out the vote drive. In an era where the NDP in many areas doesn't have the live bodies to do the GOTV part.

Also, the screens I saw, at least the introductory ones, were bilingual, implying this was a Federal NDP purchase. Yet we saw none of this technology during last Fall's federal election and I want to know why. However, I am not going to waste my time and their's phoning provincial office to ask why.

Very True

"If the NDP couldn't win after 8 years of Campbell & Co, then something has got to change"

This is very true but I do not think the Faithful can ever come to terms with their defeats and take the blame for them. Since they are incapable of doing this, the Liberals get a free ride.

"I'm glad to hear that because I don't want to "learn" to accept that beating up the disadvantaged, running up a 100 billion in debt and wrecking the environment is the path to power."

Frank, this is my point exactly. Your party did not get its message out to enough voters to get elected. It ran the same campaign in ran in 2005 and similar results. To keep this from happening, you need some soul searching, the kind you didn't do in 2005.

And can't do now, much to the Liberal's glee. They know it, too.

Both the Prince George Seats

Frank
A microcosm of the province as a whole? No matter how bad it gets, no matter how bad the unemployment or de-population, they mark their ballot for the right-wing choice.

This trend was clear in both the Prince George seats, both heavily impacted by the forest industry downturn. Across Canada, and here in BC, employment in logging, wood products and pulp and paper is at an all-time low.

The same pattern was observed in last fall's federal election where the economic crisis played to Harper's hand, at direct expense of the NDP. But that was only in BC as the national NDP made gains in most other provinces. We also saw this in the 1983 provincial election in BC when Bill Bennett was re-elected in spite of having presided over the worst recession since WWII. So there is a particular need for the NDP in BC to convince voters here that the party is equipped to deal with recessions, not just boom times when public revenues are plentiful.

But really nothing, absolutely nothing as far as I know, was done on that topic. The apparent default strategy was to ignore this perception problem and hope it goes away. It didn't, anymore that it did in 1983 or last fall. I wonder if there's a bit of a slow learning curve happening here, or if there's some basic psychological conditioning that prevents this problem from being openly and rationally addressed?

Wilf

I don't need to "soul-search" because I didn't vote for kicking the disadvantaged, huge debts, environmental degradation, highest child poverty and so on.

Its like asking those who voted for John Jerry to accept that they need to support the war in Iraq. Sometimes its side with power that's wrong. And I doubt that lesson will ever get through.

Rod

"But really nothing, absolutely nothing as far as I know, was done on that topic."

And yet many of us did fight that perception. It was the party itself that avoided that issue.

In fairness though I doubt the NDP telling people how bad the Libs have been for the economy would have resonated. After all, people expect the NDP to disagree with the Libs.

I can't say I know how that message can be delivered since the only ones capable of doing so won't do it.

This medium, message and reader.

This is a good venue for bringing in the uninformed, but there are still too many trolls trying to hook a sucker. I suppose a measure of TheTyee's success are the presence of those trolls. Whether they are independents or paid by someone would be interesting to know.

As for the mainstream media being a problem for the NDP. Andrew's title is 100% correct here in Delta South with only 2 local papers and both being strong Liberal supporters. Over the years we would write letters to the editor on a regular basis that were either not published or conveniently had portions omitted.

Sour grapes aside, the local media representation added to the impression that we had only a two way race and fueled the MSM in only covering those two candidates. So in the end, local newsworthiness was the main determination as to whether to cover the two or the three local candidates. The so-called local issues took precedence over province wide issues. Essentially, Delta South was a classic example of divide and conquer. We were divided from the rest of the province by our local papers and we developed myopic views.

The main issue was simply either keeping of getting rid of the Liberals but it might be argued that here in Delta South we were co-opted by local issues that gave our independent a strong opportunity as a local councillor who could represent us fairly.

Vote spitting by the Greens and our independent is what caused the NDP to lose and you can be sure the Liberal strategists were well aware of this.

Frank

It's not me you need to be aiming for. I saw on CBC last night they were reading posts from undecided voters, one of them was something along the lines of "I just voted Liberal because it costs too much money to change titles and offices and stationary". You need to beat that guy over the head. He's blissfully unaware of the Liberals doing anything that isn't perfectly sensible. He needs his friends to say to him "did you hear that if the RAV line doesn't get the expected ridership, that the government will have to subsidize their private partner, just like they would have had to do with the Port Mann bridge tolls if their plan to have the private sector take on the risk hadn't collapsed and ended up costing the tax payer extra millions? That's Campbell's P3s for ya, eh?"

You likely won't ever get my vote. I won't hold my nose and vote for the lesser of 2 evils. But I will try and give some helpful advice to the lesser of 2 evils. I would rather the NDP in power than the Liberals, but ultimately I think a healthy environment is much more important than healthy unions (both infinitely more important than healthy corporations, business is business you win some you lose some no guarantees it's no fun if all it takes is money to make money), so I can't give my vote away. Don't blame the Green party our try to convince us to be "strategic", set your sights on the guy who votes Liberal because it seems like the safe and sensible thing to do in the absence of any noticeable and/or credible message to the contrary. That's where your only real hope lies.

Wilfred right

In this day and age, it is almost impossible to get elected without a non-partisan media. There are many examples of this having happened this election period. Even Rafe Mair had trouble getting his particular message out in small towns where the press refused to print anything about his Run of Rivers tour. There were reports from around the province where NDP campaigns knew from the start that they would not get any local coverage.

So Wilfred is right where he said:

Your party did not get its message out to enough voters to get elected.

The bigger question will be how does the NDP deal with this problem in the future.

mikev

"Don't blame the Green party our try to convince us to be "strategic""

I assure you I normally never do although I hoped for Green supporters to come to the NDP this election while at the same time voting for a new electoral system.

The Green party represents a point of view that is different from the NDP and Libs and that point of view is no less worthy of representation.

With the end of electoral reform I can only say I hope the Greens don't go away as it would mean just more people not voting.

"You need to beat that guy over the head. He's blissfully unaware of the Liberals doing anything that isn't perfectly sensible."

I have no idea how to reach that person unfortunately and even if I did I don't think he'd take advice from a biased source like me.

West

Nor did you answer mine. Perhaps Mr MacLeod will.

Drop the Liberal voters hate women leaders shtick. That doesn't have a thing to do with it and you know it. First its the MSM, then the stupidity of voters, now we have a new sidetrack that "explains" why people vote the way they do.

Carole lost b/c of NDP policies (or lack of) not b/c of her sex.

I think a lot of Lib supporters like myself would love to see Diane Watts follow in Gordo's footsteps.

Rod

"So there is a particular need for the NDP in BC to convince voters here that the party is equipped to deal with recessions, not just boom times when public revenues are plentiful.

But really nothing, absolutely nothing as far as I know, was done on that topic. "

He won't answer your important question Rod. The intellectuals in the party cannot bring themselves to face the reality that business and economic strength has to be maintained, if not expanded and that, in BC, includes resource extraction and development. The knee-jerk extreme lefties in the party are blind to basic economics and have been brainwashed into thinking that all that's needed is to raise taxes, soak the, imagined, rich and everything will be hunky dory.

These sentiments and deeply intrenched beliefs are ancient class-war history that is irrelevant in today's cosmopolitan society. Eventually they will age and wither. Whether the party has the capability to evolve is speculation.

What about the CBC?

I wonder if Andrew MacLeod could re-interview John Horgan and ask him directly whether or not he thinks the NDP got better or even more neutral coverage from the CBC? And refuse to take any mumbles for an answer.

It's my impression that the CBC is more subtle, more polite, but still makes sure that the basic economic pitch-line that you need to avoid the NDP if you don't want investment flight, job losses, high taxes and wasteful spending, etc., still gets across. There are a couple of CBC radio personalities, both females for some reason, who have for years been unable to mention the NDP in newscasts without their voices betraying their distaste and disrespect for a social democratic/labour party.

In federal elections of the recent past it was very clear that CBC staff here in BC were going well out of their way to put across the basic Liberal "vote strategic" pitch. In the 2006 election, for example, one regional CBC radio reporter made up an item about a mythical Burnaby leftist name Rosalyn. The story line was that Rosalyn used to work on all of Svend Robinson'scampaigns, but was now going to vote strategically for Liberal Bill Cunningham. Needless to say, no one from the Burnaby Douglas NDP was produced who had any recollection of Rosalyn. You can still see this pitching of the federal Liberal "vote strategic" meme in the truly excessive and almost fawning coverage given to any appearance, however perfunctory, by Ujjal Dosanjh. Nationally Jack Layton and the Federal NDP Caucus get coverage on the CBC that can only be described as marginal.

In this provincial election and others I have seen clear instances of the CBC pushing the provincial Liberal agenda in their coverage of issues. For example, early on in the campaign Berman's denunciation of James was reported as that of an "environmentalist" not that of a "business lobbyist for IPPs". I phoned and asked about that, and got no answer.

Those traditional, hard-assed, European trained socialists who naively believe that only privately owned corporate media are dead set against the NDP are being stupid to the point of outright irresponsibility. The publicly owned CBC differs only in tone, not in substantance, for their corporate bureaucrats have economic interests to protect as well.

I didn't say that happy

Look again - I said MALE voters were uncomfortable voting for a woman.

I think it's a valid question - I'd be interested to hear your answer.

On the other point, I'm not sure you have one - and I don't speak for Andrew McLeod - or weren't you aware of that?

To me it's pretty clear that Carole James has a better program than the crook - I'm surprised you don't see why help for poor kids and folks in care is more important than promoting government subsidized German shipyards - but that's just me I guess.

I already gave you my answer

Diane for Premier in '13. Are you going to try to tell me that male Lib voters wouldn't vote for her? Was she elected by women only in Surrey?

So lets see, we have MSM bias, voter stupidity and now sexism to blame for the NDP's loss. Oh, and Green traitors.

If you think running a Bush-Republican style campaign was a "much better canpaign"...
then go for it next time. You'll get the same result.
You sure put Harper down when they ran negative ads
And you were right. I didn't care for them, I'm sure it cost the Con's some votes.
The NDP ads were over the top and the Public rolled their eyes. Nothing constructive to offer as an alternative, attack, attack, attack.

Campaigning

I wouldn't presume to know why the NDP chose to campaign on some issues and not others. A stronger case than the German ferries is the state of the economy. We were in our first recession in BC since 1982, but you heard little about it from the NDP. My guess is that even with that weakness the NDP saw it as a subject more likely to help than hurt them. In the case of the ferries, I think it would have been hard to raise the issues about the new ones (and there are serious issues) without handing the Liberals an opportunity to remind people about the PacifiCats. Just a thought . . .

hurt than help

That should've said "more likely to hurt than help them." Forgive me, it was a late night and early morning.

Andrew MacLeod: Please ask Horgan about the CBC

Andrew, I appreciate the late night/early morning situation, but I do hope that at some point you will ask Horgan about the coverage given to politics, federal and provincial, by the CBC. I think that's a vitally important matter.

Mr MacLeod

Sorry, if you are going to keep insinuating there are "serious issues" then provide some objective evidence.

Objective.

So far all I've read here are they use more fuel - but you don't mention they carry triple the amount of overhead commercial traffic at the same time, which they were specifically designed for.
And the exhaust is so loud it causes property damage. Apparently in Nanaimo only for some reason. Must be the air. Why not Swartz Bay or Horshoe Bay?
And they (horrors) vibrate! Compared to what? What BC Ferry doesn't shake like its falling apart. They aren't cruise liners. Tied up to the dock most of the time? Wrong again. Check the website. All running. If at times one is tied up do you think it might b/c BCF has spare boats now and they don't NEED to run every last boat during slow times. Do you know how depreciation factors into ownership costs over the long run? If you did, then you might arrive at the answer.

I note you're a political reporter Mr MacLeod. Its obvious, no offence intended.

Ferries and CBC

Rod: Thank you for your comments. Horgan singled out Canwest without me doing any prompting. I'll make a note of your question about CBC.

Happy: I stand by my reporting on the new ferries, starting with this one: http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/11/18/Ferries/

Island Tides had a good piece on their propulsion system shortly after mine ran. I don't have the link at my fingertips, but I think you would find it interesting.

OK Mr MacLeod

You stand by your reporting.
When might we expect to see the next article then on the "serious problems" as they obviously just didn't disappear, and of course the MSM sweeps them under the carpet.
I'd love to get your take on the technical deficencies of the Class starting with the propulsion system - if you want. You don't need Island Tides for that, do you?

Happy

I offer the Island Tides piece only because it went into detail on the design problems. You'll find it here: http://www.islandtides.com/assets/reprint/ferries_20081211a.pdf

If you really want to discuss ferry design with a reporter, feel free to give me a call. You can find my number on my bio page: http://thetyee.ca/Bios/Andrew_MacLeod/

Ironically, considering where this thread started, I do recall Global TV following my Tyee report with their own on the new ferries' design problems, so you are unfair to accuse them of sweeping the story under the carpet.

Mr MacLeod

Yes thanks, I read that islandtides story. That was written in December, before the Class was in (full) regular operation. They went into full scheduled service January 1.
I think a followup article is in order to see where they stand today would be fair.
All of BCF new Class's of boats have had "serious problems" otherwise known as teething issues.
I'm sure you are aware of the Spirits reputation when they were introduced. Thay were so bad the Union hollered they had to be parked until they were fixed! I believe it was three months they were out of service.
The Coastals are running day in and day out. Reliably.
I'm not cheerleading for German shipyards, I would just like to see a balanced discussion on the matter, such as, WHY do they use more fuel. We know they're heavier. But WHY are they heavier Mr MacLeod. Commercial capacity?
I leave this with you to ponder, I must run.

Cheers

Thanks Andrew

Andrew MacLeod,

Thanks for making a note to ask Horgan about the CBC. I will be curious to see what answer he has.

happy
I'm sure you are aware of the Spirits reputation when they were introduced. Thay were so bad the Union hollered they had to be parked until they were fixed! I believe it was three months they were out of service.
The Coastals are running day in and day out. Reliably.

Rubbish. There were no problems with the S class at all. It's an excellent design for such a large vessel creating a small fraction of the wake of older ferries.

I have been over to the Island several times in recent weeks and one of the German ferries is always tied up there doing nothing. I did ride on one once, and its passenger appointments are nice, but no better than British Columbia or Vancouver Island, except that they went back to the older approach of having outer walks on both upper passenger decks.

It's not often appreciated that the real reason the BC Liberals insisted on offshoring this major procurement was neither ideological nor economic nor even just a political slap at the marine unions. It was a slap at Kyle Washington, who has refused to donate to their slush fund.

Railgate, this election, and NDP strategy

The MSM has much to answer for in ignoring the Railgate issue.

My take on it is this was an UNUSUAL election. All the groups and environmentalists wading into the election over the run-of-river. I was reading and commenting on a lot of Tyee stories in the weeks leading up to the election. Generally, Tyee readers are left of centre and progressive. I saw a huge amount of conflict over the NDP's platform and some of their policies.

The NDP needed to face the fact that the Liberals clever carbon tax scooped them and the Green Party. That was part of the plan. However, the NDP saying we will abolish the carbon tax and shift the entire burden to industry only plays into the hands of those who claim the NDP is incapable of managing the economy. In the end, we pay for any corporate taxes in the price of goods and services.

SoCreds, NeoCons and Fraserites have long claimed the 'communist' NDP is hostile to business. Why prove their point, again and again? Learn from this NDP!

Canwest biased for BC Liberals

Thank you to MLA John Horgan for having the guts to say it how it is.

I don't know why people are afraid to say this, when it is clear then Canwest has a neo-con right wing agenda.

Provincially Canwest favours the BC Liberals and federally it is the Conservatives.

Until it becomes common knowledge that Canwest is our "Fox news", voters will continue to get manipulated and the NDP will have virtually no chance of winning again.

This article was about Canwest obvious bias against the NDP.

Interesting that some are going way off topic by posting about the NDP campaign, when the issue here is the Canwest bias.

I wonder if these are Liberal supporters or Canwest themselves trying to divert the topic to something else?