The Hook

Cuts?

Where are the cuts? Oh, what you do is make a wish list, then when the taxpayers don't cough up, you claim that your budget was "cut" ie for programmes that never existed. Pulling heart strings is always a good one, like threatening to ax Muffy's fiddle lessons and intimating that the government is going to it, not the school board. Of course, said board is going to save the day at the end because it has pulled the same routine 16 out of the last 17 years and had substantial surpluses every year.

An CUPE 15 calling an emergency! Well, that has never, ever happened before!

Simple Search all that I needed - Can Lat

CanadianLatitude asks:

"So where exactly are these wide spread protests? I have not seen any at any of the schools around my neck of the woods?"

I just performed a simple Google search and these news hits popped up as the top 2-6 news items related to this topic. This Hook article was actually the #1 but you have already seen it. It seems that protests are making the news.

www.straight.com/.../hundreds-turn-out-protest-bc-liberal-budget-cuts-hst-vancouver

vancouverreview.ca/parents-protest-education-cuts/

www.theprovince.com/Education+Minister+under.../story.html

www.nupge.ca › Social Services

www.vancouverobserver.com/.../education/2010/.../extensive-vancouver-school-education-cuts-proposed-parents-gather-protest

10 years ago, the people of BC had an education system they were proud of. That is no longer the case.

above Links don't seem to work from here

However, you can perform your own search.

W. Laurier: I don't recall that I've read you writing in favour of public education, nor of public ownership of anything. Please correct me is I am wrong, but from what I have gathered over the years, you would rather everything was done by for profit, private entities. And, further, I believe you hate unions as well - is that right?

sharing...

It's an annual ritual. Not one cent has been removed from the BC education budget in the last ten years. This at a time when enrollment has declined every single year.

I challenge any of the Faithful to find me proof that provincial education spending has dropped in any of the last ten years. You cannot because it has not.

As a parent with school age children in both elementary and secondary schools, there is not a scintilla of anything lacking in these places. They have flat panel tvs, computers, copiers, av equipment, the lot.

It is all pure political theatre.

Where are the cuts?

You can be forgiven for not seeing the cuts if you don't have kids in school or visit often, but the stats bear it out.

Vancouver, for example, has cut special education teachers by 25% since 2001, despite a 35% increase in the number of special education students in the same period.

It's the same for libraries, ESL, Aboriginal, Inner City programs, multicultural workers, music, the arts, sports, etc. The quality of education that BC children receive is being eroded every year. At least one in 5 students is being left behind.

This will cost us far more than we save in the long run.

Special ed stats can be found here:
http://stopeducationcuts.org/communities/special-ed/

More on the challenges province-wide and how many local communities are fighting back here: http://stopeducationcuts.org/

Or show your suopport by joining others fighting back on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=152591712845

(And if your community isn't fighting back yet, why not take a stand and start something yourself, as concerned parents and public education advocates are doing across BC.)

It's one step forward, two steps back

It may be true that school district funding has increased in the last 10 years; however, if the amount given has not increased to cover real costs - some of which the government handed down to school boards - then there is not enough funding. I don’t think anyone finds this hard to fathom. One just has to look at what one receives in salary or pension in comparison to what they received 10 years ago and compare this to what is now shelled out for average day to day expenditures. I sure know that despite some mediocre salary increases, our family’s dollars don’t stretch nearly as far anymore.

It’s all in the definition of “cuts” to education. Even though the government may rightly say they have increased funding over the last few years, it’s not enough to cover real costs. Most, if not all, school districts in BC are struggling to make ends meet, and are “cutting” schools, programs, staff, etc. Some school districts, such as Prince George, have had their educational system literally turned upside down and have made the mainstream news, but the majority of northern or small town school districts are slowly bleeding in mainstream media silence.

Cuts - yeah cuts

Let's cut the amount of money the Provincial Government pays to private schools every year and put it back into the public system where it belongs.

There is no way a penny of public money should be going into an elite private system while public schools can't afford to do their job properly.

People should be demonstrating in the streets at this disgusting misuse of public tax revenues.

Stop it - now. Every penny Campbell pays into private schools (more than 150 million a year) is torn from the budgets of the public system.

Margaret MacDiarmid

The Education Minister is Margaret MacDiarmid of the Vancouver-Fairview riding. Stop referring to her as just the "Education Minister." Her name is Margaret MacDiarmid and if Fairview voters dislike her performance as Education Minister they should go forth with a recall initiative come November 15 - God knows it's a weak riding. Hell, find a good independent, and pull a Reitsma on her privileged child-hating ass!

The reason we have school

The reason we have school boards is they're the ones who do the Ministry of Education's dirty work.

What Exactly are the Rising Costs?

I haven't heard a good explanation of where the rising costs are coming from.
Is it wages? If so, then perhaps employees, i.e. teachers who trumpet they care about the kids, should take a pay cut or else their very generous benefit plans should be examined.
The diminishing quality of education isn't only due to funding cuts. Did you ever stop to think that the quality of teaching may be a factor. I have two children in school and I've encountered several less-than-capable-teachers who due to union protection continue to teach when they shouldn't be.

Te Rising costs

The government has mandated districts be carbon neutral. Those costs are unfunded.

Everytime BC Hydro rates go up, school districts pay more. Same for gas and other transportation costs.

General inflation

Salary increases

MSP increases mandated by government

Pension increases

the list is long

Too many wants so few needs

If society gets beyond,"whats best for me" approach, many things in life will improve.

Including an education for those in need.

If there is one argument

If there is one argument that drives me over the edge its', 'Cut the teachers salary's, they're lazy, incompetant and overpaid'.

Well Ramona777, how about you take a wage cut and give up your benefits? Maybe you wouldn't mind if I dropped by your workplace one afternoon and gave you a personal assessement of your work performance.

If you can't see the funding cuts, you're not looking very hard. School board meetings are public, go to a couple and hear first hand the issues they are trying to deal with.

no heroes

This is a perfect storm of suck.

Whatever the total number of dollars is, the government has not committed enough of them to maintain staffing at schools. Richmond just got rid of almost 100 positions. The oppostion, school boards, trustees, administrators and the union have all been uniformly unimaginative in dealing with the staffing crunch. No one suggests anything like job sharing to deal with the fact that people with less than 5 years' seniority are being punted back onto the sub list where they will compete with existing TOCs for call-outs and work one day a week, if they are lucky.

The reason given for all this hardship is declining enrollment. So let's look at that. Say you have a school with 300 kids and enrollment is decreasing 10% a year (which it isn't.) The school admin gets less money to deal with because the school is run on a per student basis and so they say, "30 kids fewer? That's a class. That's one FTE. I'll lay off the person with the least seniority." Boom, the grade 2 teacher who has been at it 4 years is now a TOC. Now all of a sudden, there's no one to teach the grade 2 class. Some of them go to a grade 1/2 split and some go to a 2/3 split.

There is no way any of this is in the best interest of children.

Peripheral "cuts"

I’m sure someone more knowledgeable can fill us in on more of these, but I gather there have also been grant reductions to groups/entities that have a direct impact on many schools, such as a huge reduction in the grant to the Education Resources Acquisition Consortium (ERAC), a cancelled annual grant to the Roots of Empathy program, and some sort of tinkering with the Early Intensive Behaviour Intervention program for children with autism.

Show Me

Again, I challenge any one of the Faithful to demonstrate to me a cut in education funding in the last 10 years. That means the total amount of funding the Ministry of Education sends to schools in the Province of British Columbia.

Not one single cent has been removed from the education budget. It has increased every single year while student enrollment has dropped.

The positions "got rid of" never existed to begin with or were a result of lowered enrollment.

It is an annual ritual and all politics.

W Laurier

By providing up to 50% of the operating funds for independent and private schools plus s grants in lieu of capital costs funding the provincial government is short changing the public school system that money.

It's simple math - taxpayers should NOT BE FUNDING INDEPENDENCT SCHOOLS - it is a moral and an financial crime to short change the public schools and increase funding for private institutions...currently at a level approaching $200 million per ear.

At the same time real per-student funding for public education in BC has been dropping, and has reached its lowest level in more than 15 years (Lee, 2004).

Stop funding private schools - NOW

Wilfred`s argument is that.....

Of the uneducated...The incresed funding argument is pathetic...

$60 million to build B.C., Place...The Province is spending record money on a roof $500 million dollars.

My hydro bill was $200 every 2 months in 2000..Now it`s $450 every 2 months...

The decline in students is 56,000 from the year 2000...

Gordon Campbell`s pay has gone up 70% since 2000....

The debt was $25 billion in 2000 today the debt under the BC Liberals is $55 billion dollars.

Every year there is increased deficit financing, a new record every year.

Wilfred refuses to get off the stump, [OFFENSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]?

If a school loses 10 students year over year they lose $90,000 ...But they don`t lose any expenses.

Schools have to pay, higher hydro rates,higher gas rates, they have to buy carbon offsets, schools have to pay for negotiated salary increses.

Perhaps Wilfred you should go with your children and rally against the thousands of other students and parents...

Have a real big sign, have your sign say...School funding is plenty..or..Stop your griping, all is good.

But I wouldn`t want you to involve your children, life is tough enough, as you know...

THE ACORN DOESN`T FALL FAR FROM THE TREE!

Show me

Too bad, instead of political rhetoric, please deomonstrate to me that there has been one cent cut from the education budget in the last ten years.

You cannot because it has not.

I have three children in public schools. The places are well funded indeed.

"Every year there is increased deficit financing, a new record every year."

Wrong. Prove your assertion.

As for education, I would wager I have more than you do.

What other figures would you like Wilf?

...real per-student funding for public education in BC has been dropping, and has reached its lowest level in more than 15 years (Lee, 2004).

That pretty much says it all - furthermore, the funding for independent schools has been increasing at a rapid level. Between 2004 and the current fiscl year funding for private schools has increased by some 50 million dollars a year.

Just that 50 million - allocated among the hardest hit school districts - would go a long way to solve the problem. Furthermore, if you factor in the tax reductions given to parents who have kids in independent schools the amount of money stolen from public education increases even more.

Furthermore, funding for special needs students - which public schools must accept by law and which private schools are almost never interested in - has been even harder hit.

Garth...

Who is "Lee" and how is "real" defined?

As an aside, how many kids do you have in public school, Garth, and what are your first hand observations of their schools?

And Garth....

The study you quote was from 2004. If "real" education funding had hit lows in that period, it means that it declined during the entire time the NDP was in power.

Find me a more up to date study. That one is six years old. Then show me some figure to back up what you say.

It is all politics and an annual ritual.

Oh Wilfred.....

I don`t need to supply proof of anything, you would never accept any proof unless it was spoken by Magaret McDiarmid/Colin Hansen/Gordon Campbell.

I merely suggested that you should organize a rally, you should be phoning the other parents and straighten them out, explain to them about record funding,take a pro-active approach in defending McDiarmid`s position!

Be like Colin Hansen, today at the 2010 Conference(set up by the BC council of business)Hansen pleaded with the business people to....

"Talk to your customers, explain to them how great the HST is"

Hansen was asked by reporters after his speech, the reporters asked Hansen how come he sounded so desperate, pleading for business`s to "Straighten out their mis-informed customers"

But I digress, it was actually quite humorous in a pathetic way, I wonder how business people are going to tell their customers how great the new tax is?

Yes, desperation, I`m glad the parents are furious, I`m glad the schools are under-funded, I`m glad Campbell is bringing in the HST.

The reason I`m glad is, it means the end up the B.C. Liberals.

Good luck with that begging request from the business people Hansen! LOL LOL HA HA

Wilfred

I'm not really interested in making up for your own educational deficiencies.

In the meantime, please tell me why it's okay for taxpayers to subsidize independent schools to the tune of 200 million a year.

Or for private schools to ignore the responsibility to deal with extremely costly special needs children and leave all those expenses for you and me to pay while they suck up the best students in their constant pandering to the Fraser Institute.

One in a while Wilf, I'd like to see you answer a question or two.

How about it?

Garth...

Instead of your personal attacks, why don't you provide me with some facts about your assertion that education funding is being decreased? The study you referred to is six years out of date and in fact castigates the NDP for its levels of education funding.

Again, I challenge any of the Faithful to prove to me that education funding has reduced in any way for any amount in the last ten years.

There are No personal attacks

I'm simply not interested in educating you.

The facts are quite clear - the studies are out there and, as I said, I'm not interested in educating YOU - that isn't a personal attack - it's a statement of fact.

Calling me the 'Faithful' is personal.

And, you still haven't answered my questions - why not?

I thought you were interested in constructive debate.

Prove it, I'm to lazy to read anything contrary.

If the educational grant received increases less that the expenditures of school boards, then that is a cut. Particularly when the increases in expenditures are due to gov't policy. Carbon taxes, teachers salary increases (determined by Carol Taylor) and the list goes on. The suggestion that Trustees, who are closer to the system than Wilf or the Minister, are somehow trying to pad the system is just plain silly. They have been "making end meet" with all the difficulties imposed on them. Sitting her and writing "prove it" means you are inept at getting any information at all or you wouldn't believe it if it hit you on the head. All these School trustees have more integrity than that bunch of liberals you worship Wilf.

W Laurier....

Certainly provides alotta yuk yuks.

Why do you waste your time?! :D

Another personal attack from dot Luke

Please note editors.

W Laurier is right

Absolute funding has increased. But costs have risen faster (most are controlled by the Province and have risen much faster than general inflation).

So it is funding in real dollars where education funding has decreased.

(My cable bill is up around 200% from a decade ago and I'm not getting a single extra channel. If I'd increased my TV budget at the same rate as the Provincial education budget, I'd have had my cable cut off a long time ago.)

That shortfall in real dollars creates structural deficits that force local boards to cut services to balance their books.

And yes those cuts have exceeded any cuts commensurate with enrolment declines, where we've seen those, so it means reduced services levels per student. That's where the cuts are. Even districts with rapidly rising enrolment like Surrey and Mission are being forced to cut services.

Provincial education funding has also decreased as a proportion of the total provincial budget, relative to provincial GDP AND relative to per capita GDP.

In recent years, BC's student/educator ratios have been the highest or second highest in Canada.

The final key pressure is the ever-expanding education mandate. The provincial government asks the education system to do more and more each year: Every time there is a curriculum change, for example, it can cost my child's secondary school alone over $10,000 to get the new textbooks. We're dealing with more complex populations than ever (e.g. trying to cater to wealthy international students, refugees and typical kids while also trying to improve our abysmal Aboriginal graduation rates). Full day K, new class size limits, new reporting requirements, catching up with required investments in technology and student computers, new student fitness requirements, costs of pro-D to train teachers in new methods and advances in teaching, etc etc....

Just responding to new demands like Freedom of Information requests, or trying to reform archaic board management processes and improve transparency and stakeholder engagement in line with new public expectations - the list goes on and on and none of these challenges should sound remotely unfamiliar with anyone in business or management of any large modern organization - everyone is wrestling with the same enormous challenges.

The bottom line is that the funding is not keeping pace with the requirements and the students are the ones paying the price when core educational services must be cut to balance the books. Vulnerable kids get hit hardest and more get left behind. We all pay more in the end when that happens

Name

No, actually he's then wrong. If revenue increases do not match expenditure demands (particularly if those demands are not in your control) it constitutes a cut in services. It would be no different if costs stayed the same and revenue (grants) were cut. You can't suck and blow at the same time.

Wilfred can

Tyee moderators, there was no call to edit my comment, why don`t you edit .Luke

You have different rules, I amware that you think .Luke brings you better ratings, so does Polakite, but does nothing to the thread.

My comment that you edited was...(uneducated?) where is that a slur?

No wonder regulars have lost respect for you [OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]!

[COMMENT REMOVED.

[COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Hmmmm? Toobadd & Name

My Hydro bill in 2000 was $202 for two months and in 2010 it is $68. Same house just a few less kids. Even if you add Terasen back in it only comes to $220.

This gets even more interesting. My cable in 2000 was $$86 / mos. and now in 2010 it is $$143 for the same service but now including phone. Apples to apples and it's only gone up about $14.

I think the 'closet Socreds' are not the best money managers on the planet but those on the attack should certainly be able to perform better than their opponents. I don't see that.

@ Snert

Years back when I lived in an apartment mu hydro bill was higher than that every 2 months...

There is no way you live in a house with that small of a hydro bill....

I have oil heating, so unless you live in the dark,never use the stove,microwave,do any laundrey, that is not believable.

Even B.C. hydro states the average hydro bill 1300 kwhs....And that average by hydro was lowered adding apartments, condo`s, and empty summer or investment properties, I assure you the averasge house has a $300 dollar minimum hydro bill.

Your number is not believable, no offence, try again!

School closures

School closures aren't necessarily bad, especially in areas where school enrollments are dropping. The teacher's union hasn't liked the Campbell government for years (remember the billboards of 5 years ago?) but they are trying to protect the jobs of their members, as they should. The bigger problem is probably the fake crises developed by school boards and school administrators because their schools and pay depend on the number of teachers.

The easiest solution is to raise local taxes for the schools and elect taxpayers to school boards.

Name

Are you complaining about rising costs yet demanding an increase in taxes to pay for an expanded education system?

What should the education system be doing not what it is doing or what it/you want it to be doing. Then decide which extras should be added. The more extras you want to add, the higher taxes you should pay.

But the province could help if it did not negotiate teachers' salaries on a province wide basis but left salary negotiations to occur based on districts or regions. Then smaller centers could pay more to get better and more experienced teachers while large centers that can attract large numbers of teachers could offer lower salaries.

Never-ending story

I will preface my comments by saying that both my kids are beyond school age and were schooled in the public system.

I also believe that it was ludicrous for the Socred Party to have ever started partially funding private schools. Unfortunately, none of the parties that have come to power since have had the balls to change this, probably because they were afraid to lose votes.

If it were only one or two school boards that were crying poverty then I would probably think that they were crying wolf, but the reality is that we are hearing the same song from pretty much every school district which leads me to believe that there is a shortfall. Maybe years back they spent like drunken sailors, but those days are long gone.

The way I see it is that all the various school boards be disbanded and the provincial government take over complete control of the public education system. Right now, the school boards serve as a scapegoat if things go sideways. It is just too easy to say that there is enough money in the system and then blame someone else when problems occur.

It's time for the provincial government to put up or shut up.

Name

Nice argument. Only one point you missed responding to Wilf.

Wilf, your comment here:
"As a parent with school age children in both elementary and secondary schools, there is not a scintilla of anything lacking in these places. They have flat panel tvs, computers, copiers, av equipment, the lot."
... misses one point. All those items you mention except the photocopier are not operational expenses, or attached to any programme for which funding exists, but are instead capital improvements.

Capital improvements are funded in two ways - one by fundraising from PACs and other donations in kind from local businesses etc, and the other from Ministry funding generally allocated reasonably equitably on a per-student basis.

Ministry capital funding in no way provides anything like the kind of support that you are seeing in schools. In poor schools in 2006 it provided funding for 1 computer for every 12 kids under a specific programme that I can't recall the name of, but that a friend of mine supplied computers to two schools in Burnaby under. In 2009 there was not a dime for any capital purchases for programmes like that, and obviously there won't be any this year either.

Now, PACs operate under the same rules as a charity - any funds raised must be disbursed at the rate of at least 80% in the following year. Schools are not penalized for having successful PACs or raising donations in kind from businesses. In no way can these funds be used for any kind of operating expenses such as salaries, fuel, a new boiler, benefits, or programmes or programme materials funded by the Ministry.

Funds raised may only be used for capital improvements such as computers, and programmes not already funded by the Ministry.

As such, if you're looking at, say, False Creek Elementary as the place where your kids go to school, you'll find computers at every desk from a successful PAC and donations in kind. If your kids were to transfer to, say, Queen Alexandra, you'd find a dozen to share among the whole school, all five years old. And it's kind of difficult to launch a whole new house-funded programme such as Hot Breakfast or Enrichment Latin in some parts of the east side when the parents haven't two nickels to rub together, never mind contribute to Johnny's education on a continuing basis. And you can imagine how many local businesses around Queen Alexandra have goods in kind that they want to donate that are useful.

If I were you, I wouldn't slag the efforts of dedicated and well-funded parents at certain schools by implying that the Ministry did everything that you see, and that all schools look the same. They don't.

It is all politics

The entire "issue" is pure politics. Patti Baccus is hard left COPE. Enrollment is down in the district. Many schools are operating far below capacity. However, the VSB has only closed one small school since enrollment peaked in 2000. In Victoria, a much smaller district, there have been seven schools closed.

Closing a school would mean the lay-off of CUPE and BCTF members. It would significantly reduce admin costs. However, Patti's task is first and foremost to protect union jobs.

And that is what she is doing.

Yep, its politics.

Government giving school districts grants that don't fund costs government has imposed and then when they (districts) complain you brush it off with, " it is all politics". Yep, its politics al right. Finbally you got it right Wilf!

There are 57 school districts in BC

"The entire "issue" is pure politics."

While there may be some politics involved in the VSB neck of the woods (I really can't say one way or another because I don't know), I know absolutely that the "issue" is not pure politics in any shape or form in our remote school district - it is a funding shortfall.

When all the dust and pink slips and school closures settle hopefully someone reports an across BC picture of the education system carnage.

"Liberal" education?

Perhaps if Libs (MLAs and voters) would have spent more time in math class they'd be better equipped to understand this issue?

One has only to look at how badly they've messed up the province's finances to see that these people need our help. Its like watching an addict use his VISA to buy drugs and thinking he's gonna be fine.

I think the 15% or whatever it is that still support Gordon Campbell are an illustration of the need for more adult education in this province.

To all Libs out there, don't worry, we're willing to help you.

Frank...

What is the NDP platform regarding declining enrollment vis a vis school funding? I cannot see it anywhere on their webpage. There are 57,000 fewer students in BC than 10 years ago. I am interested to know what your opinion is regarding this issue. For example, should the Education Ministry provide every district what they ask for?

Educate me.

Wilfred

57,000 fewer stundents since 2000.

At 330 students per school is 176 schools,

as of the end of last year there was 176 schools closed.

36 more schools are on the chopping block this year.

Student enrollment is supposed to start to climb again in 2013.

Your argument fails Wilfred.

And, as you know it was the BC liberals who changed the funding formula for education in 2001....School districts used to receive block funding, Gordon Campbell changed the funding formula to a per student number. The formula is flawed!

If those 176 schools closed had 500 students each = 89,000 students.

Kevin Falcon is moving to the per patient funding formula in our hospitals, so what Kevin Falcon is doing is closing beds and wards and cutting staff, the hospitals will end up doing less procedures and will receive less money! NEO-CON logic costing lives and education.

There was no per student funding before Campbell!

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Wilf

[EDITED. -MODERATOR.] know that a just-elected government's policies should stand or fall on their own merits and that wanting to talk about the platform of a political party that's not in power is simply avoiding the issue.

Akin to a child-like simplicity that one longs for when faced with complex issues.

Something Liberal MLAs and voters alike I'm sure majored in.

Um...

Bacchus is Vision, not COPE. Mr Laurier. Vision is to the right of "hard left COPE."

Bacchus received a standing ovation from trustees from all sides of the political spectrum at their convention last weekend. So apparently this is not just a "hard-left" issue.

Sorry, you'll have to find another excuse to pretend that there is no legitimacy to her concerns over underfunding of public education, which are apparently shared by 85% of British Columbians.

The blind loyalty of hard-right partisans is just encouraging the BC Liberals to self-destruct on this and other issues like the HST. Is this really what you want?

Name

Perhaps Bacchus is correct, but when will we have a legitimate dialogue amongst all, not just one side, about why there is an underfunding of the school system.
It goes far beyond dollars. It's a complex issue involving an intransigent union and an educational philosophy that now demands, rightly or wrongly, that children who were once institutionalized are now in classrooms.
Until people are willing to pay more taxes our educational and health care systems will flail.
The backlash against the HST tells me we want it both ways.
We are truly a self-centred society.

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN RAMONA

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The Campbell government collects more revenue in tuition then from all corporate taxes combined, and that`s before the HST..

B.C. has the lowest corporate tax rate of the G7 ...And that is before the HST.

Teck Comenco made $805 million in the 1st quarter of this year..EnCana gas made triple their expected profits in the 1st quarter of the year.

It just amazes me when you people like you [EDITED. -MODERATOR.]

If the B.C. Government needed more revenue they could have raised the PST to 7.5% ..Just like Campbell did in his first term..

Romana, do you even understand the HST, it means less revenue to the Province, it`s a tax shift, a $1.9 billion dollar tax shift, BIG BUSINESS will pay $1.9 billion less in taxes and that $1.9 billion is being downloaded onto consumers.

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By the way Ramona...

Are those the same 2 teachers who taught you?

Toobad ... too bad.

You prove my point about the lack of legitimate dialogue.
By resorting to ad hominem attacks, your credibility evaporates.