The Hook

"Waste of resources"

Mary Polak finally got something right. Now maybe she could resign and we would waste even less.

The score

Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond 1

Mary Polak 0

I guess "Cabinet Confidentiality"

is going the way of the telegraph.

Congrats to all.

Problem is, MCFD Min Polak had to defend it. Or lose the Honourable part of her title.

Yet another loss....

by the loser BC Lieberals. They think they are above the law. Not!!!

Isn't someone supposed to

Isn't someone supposed to pay a price when they break a law?

I heard her on CBC

I heard her on CBC this afternoon and she truly does have a lot of class. She didn't brag or sneer at the BC Liberals, she talked about what is best for the children and what her mandate is .We need more people like her in the public service and as leaders of corporations.

Polakite said

"Problem is, MCFD Min Polak had to defend it. Or lose the Honourable part of her title."

While defending it, she lost any sense of or appearance of honour she may have had. We need people in government to stand up for what is right and not to be braun-nosers just to keep their jobs. This shows us the character (or lack there-of) of Polak and her BC Liberal colleagues. She and her BC Liberal colleague should take some lessons in integrity from Turpel-Lafond.

@North of Hope

Oh so you think there should be NO ABSOLUTELY NO cabinet confidentiality?

Hey, I'm not far behind.

Let's stop smearing Mary Polak and keep this about the issue.

I guess that's just too hard for people.

@ Polakite

You're the one who brought her into this conversation with this remark, "Problem is, MCFD Min Polak had to defend it. Or lose the Honourable part of her title."
This demonstrates that she has no character, she just wants the job and all the benefits that go with it. She doesn't care for the children in need, just her job. It is time she stood up for these kids that she is being paid to take of. That is the issue, the minister of Children and Families should stand up for the children and families of this province, like she has sworn to do and is being paid to do. She could take a few lessons from Turpel-Lafond on how to do that.

It's not possible to smear Mary Polak

She does it so comprehensively herself.

She can't even explain why her very well paid deputy is still receiving a $2000.00 per month "living allowance" from the taxpayers of BC...don't you think the children in care in BC could use that extra 24G per annum Mary.
And why won't you even discuss that 'contract', which is a matter of public record, in the legislature.

I don't think YOU like openness very much at all, do you Minister.

Government Mooches

Why does she want the records regarding children in a home of a relative? So that they can end that program (and have they have deliberately put children in homes where they know they will be abused)?

Get it through your heads people - The MCFD couldn't care less about children! That's why they rip them from their mothers and fathers, sisters, brothers, grandparents, every day of the week. They aren't interested in reunification. They aren't interested in preserving families. They are interested in showing how powerful and mean the big, fat government is.

These are people who have serious issues, the so-called child protectors who see abuse everywhere, who are the worlds biggest hypocrites (like the foster parent in Saskatchewan who was named Foster Parent of the Year and later charged with sexually assaulting numerous foster children in his "care.")

If there truly is child abuse - treat it like a crime. Have the guilty party charged by the police. Get the evidence. But MCFD would be out of business in 24 hours if they had to adhere to due process. So instead they operate on the balance of probability. So easy to win, especially when the judge takes all they say as gospel, even when its outright perjury.

For those of you who think we need more social workers. You are wrong! We need to butt out and if we do anything, support parents who are poor, don't steal their children. The stupidity of people on this issue is truly astounding. You really think Turpel-Lafond or this judge have done anything for children? She and the other gov't mooches couldn't care less. They only want to LOOK good. If they get these records, and the records make the parents or relatives look bad - they've won! The extended family program will be toast. And that's EXACTLY what the MCFD wants.

slime alert

Let's see how fast Gordo rewrites the law to exclude the portions the judge found upon thus, blocking any further important information from getting where it needs to go. He is obviously desperate to prevent the public from seeing something terribly damaging to MCFD.(Why elese would he have pulled this stupid and clumbsy manouver to protect their lack of child care experience and even care for the children). Slime will continue ot ooze to cover heir Campbells bare naked butt and tracks.

Question

Mary Polak insisted that Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond should capitulate to the wishes of the BC Liberals and accused her of wasting taxpayers money. Who was wasting public money now that the courts ruled in favour of the judge?

For anyone to suggest that Mary Polak did this in the name of honour is laughable at best. If she was honourable she would have done what is best for her ministry, not her party.

This boils down to nothing more than another example of what is wrong with our political system. Party politics is about as undemocratic a system as one can get.

Poor Mary

Too bad, so sad - Last time I looked BC shamefully leads the country in child poverty, but Liberal inc wants that swept under the rug . What's really disgusting was the comment about wasting time- How much time has there been since the Hughes report? Way more than it took to enact the HST. If it wasn't so sad, watching the Liberal Lemming team following Gordo off the cliff would be amusing. Polak has no honour nor do the Liberal zombies, Maybe they could change it to Dishonourable Member instead....

Hard to defend Mary P. isn't it?

The poster who drags Mary Polak into almost every discussion even when she is not relevant to the article now says, "Let's stop smearing Mary Polak and keep this about the issue.". Funny how people like to have it both ways.

Ok, you've had your fun

Seriously.

You guys just like kicking Mary Polak in the head, don't ya?

You don't seem to care about age-old traditions like cabinet solidarity and cabinet confidentiality that need to be protected. The problem is that these traditions are not exactly spelled out in statute, but mean serious consequences for breaking rank.

In fact there's an oath all Ministers take that includes in part:

I,______________________, affirm that I will keep confidential all matters dealt with in the Executive Council, and I will not disclose any of the same to any person other than a Member of the Executive Council except as authorized by it or as required in the lawful discharge of my duties as a Member of the Executive Council. (SOURCE

Yup, the Honourable Mary Polak had a job to do. Also, "There is a mandatory exemption for information that would reveal the substance of deliberations of the Executive Council or any of its committees, including any advice, recommendations, policy considerations or draft legislation or regulations submitted to the Executive Council or any of its committees." SOURCE

Something which most people don't care to learn, hence why I'm here.

@Mr Hawthorne

Thanks for coming forward.

Investigative Report

This is , finally, real progress for the children of BC. Now...once again...I would like an independent review showing the number of children, known to MCFD, who have been injured seriously or who have died since Campbell and Co. came to power. I believe that a comparison will show a huge increase in the past 8 years.

It`s not often...

that the vicious thugs who have stolen our province can be trapped and exposed as the incompetent corporate lackey`s they are, but occasionally some genuine decent intelligent committed professional gets to take them on, and as would happen any time these bullies did not wield full and complete control over the proceedings their opponent wipes the floor with them.

Wow!

"You really think Turpel-Lafond or this judge have done anything for children? She and the other gov't mooches couldn't care less. They only want to LOOK good." Now even the judge is wrong and Mary P. is with the angels. You really have to wonder at what lengths people will go to avoid disclosing information which damages them or their masters.

Do you really think Mary Polak or Campbell care about or have done anything for children. Where was BC in child poverty? The lowest wasn't it?

Center for Public Accountability

This is the 1st paragraph from the "Center for Public Accountability" link that Polakite gave us.

"Canadians probably think the oaths of office taken by their MPs, ministers of the Crown, and public servants contain explicit commitments that the MPs, ministers, and public servants uphold the Constitution and comply with the law. They don’t. They should. And it’s time they did. Compliance with the spirit and letter of the law is the first safeguard against public officers misusing their powers."

The final paragraph...

"At the outset of a person’s assumption of public office, his or her oath serves at least as a useful personal mission statement. The oath of office ceremony makes officials’ acceptance of their obligations all the more visible to the public. But regardless whether legislators strengthen the oath wordings, in my opinion officials have a natural duty to comply with the Constitution and laws of Canada, and are bound to act in accordance with the Constitution and the laws of Canada and its provinces, as if they had taken the oaths proposed here. They can reasonably be asked to report publicly and regularly whether they have so acted.

G.F. Windsor,

Barrister and Solicitor"

It looks as though the judge, in this case, wants ministers of the crown to do their job.

@North of Hope

Thanks. I think Mary Polak is Great, but this is ONE fight worth having with Mary Polak on defining damn "cabinet confidentiality".

Cabinet confidentiality is a crock

Madame Justice Turpel-Lafond has a right to this material - the court has confirmed it - the idea that cabinet confidentiality trumps everything is a legal fiction.

Period.

@G West

Half-right as usual.

That was no legal fiction, that was a responsibility the court had to relieve Min Polak of.

Some blame to Gordon Campbell, who tried open cabinet and failed too.

Of course it was

That's why the decision was rendered with such dispatch. It was obvious to anyone, except, apparently, Minister Polak. Much like her bull-headed determination to follow her prejudices to the Supreme Court in the Surrey case she is not subject, it seems, to the persuasive effect of either reason or compassion.

Had it been open to interpretation there would have been no necessity for the Executive Council to amend the law to try and remove the right of Madame Justice Turpel-Lafond to the information Mary Polak tried to deny her.

One cannot argue black is also white and hope to remain standing in a court of law.

Sadly, a barrister of George Copley's long standing and experience must have found this appearance at the bench somewhat demeaning and not a little embarrassing.

He should have stayed retired.

@G West again

half-right as usual.

It's not Mary Polak trying to deny information.

It's the premier's deputy minister Allan Seckel.

Nice try, son.

Allan Seckel

Is the premier's deputy in charge of the public service. Jessica MacDonald's OLD job

He no longer has any role in legal actions. That's what the legal services branch of the Ministry of the Attorney General does. Seckel hasn't been there since the latter part of last year.

Maybe do a bit of actual research, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about....

@G West

I feel the same way about you. If you saw the link, you'd see who actually denied the documents and why.

I saw the link

He did it on legal advice - from the Legal Services Branch of the Ministry of the Attorney General...you clearly know very little about how the system works.

What isn't on the public record is the actual content of the legal advice...you can be sure, as was the case when then Attorney General Geoff Plant disagreed with the Cabinet relative to the Crown Counsel dispute in Campbell's first term, there was a legal opinion that anticipated the judge's decision in favour of Madame Justice Turpel-Lafond.

It isn't that the CEO hasn't had better advice since the beginning of his public career making decisions which were over-turned by the courts - like Mary Polak, he's simply too arrogant to have the good sense to take GOOD LEGAL ADVICE.

Funny That

LOL Polkalite - IF Polak had HONOUR - she wouldn't be getting a few well earned kicks in the arse. Honour would mean standing up for children, not King Gordon or party lines.
She's no better than the rest of the scum on top of the legislature pond - worse in fact, as children's lives and futures are at stake.

Polak has lost the right to be called Honourable

or as Josef/Polakite likes to spell it, honorable, months ago.

The irony in her criticism of Turpel-Lafond "wasting taxpayers' money" money must have the Surrey School Board staff smashing their heads against the wall.

In a typical Liberal move, Polak et al. hid behind legislation, only to have it overturned in court, wasting- you guessed it.. TAXPAYER'S money. Money which cold have been used for, I don't know, maybe defending children's rights!?

There is no defence of Mary Polak. Period.

@ Mr Hawthorne

Really?

So you think that a child is used as a human ashtray, or one that hasn't had their diapers changed in weeks and is covered in pussing sores, or the toddler who is repeatedly sexually assaulted, or the child whose mother buys coke instead of groceries is better off at home? Is this the kind of family that needs preserving?

Give your head a shake.

These social work cases often come with criminal charges, which can sometimes take months or even years to be heard, mind you prosecuted. These kids need help, and need it immediately. And yes, a trained social worker is the one to do it. The family counseling can come once the parent is able to get their shit together and care for themselves first, but in the meantime, these kids are facing immediate and often irreparable mental and physical harm.

One more reason why Mary Polak and her ilk are beyond reprehensible.

Oh my...

Why don't you guys just get some hockey pucks, put Mary Polak's face on it and fling it into a hockey net for YouTube? Well, that's what you do here.

You don't care for my POV and you never will. In one previous thread that the moderator had to finally shut down, some of you made sexual comments.

It's so nice the left that supposedly loves debate, speaks of tolerance and love and give and take is so exposed as lacking give and take for it's opposition. If G West felt there's "GOOD LEGAL ADVICE" then let's see it, okay?

Off hot.

Great, we need a ball now

I think Polakite just took his and trudged off home.

These characters don't take advice

Trust me my friend, they march to their own separate drummer, that's what Heather Stilwell and her protégé Mary Polak have been doing since they decided they'd try to force their fundamentalist views down the throats of British Columbians - Surrey Taxpayers included.

Why do you think I was so certain that Mary Polak would lose her legal challenge?

Look back over what I've written on the subject here at Tyee: She lost because it was a stupid, pig-headed attempt to tilt at a windmill.

Such people don't respect the law - they USE it. Just like they USE PEOPLE.

Before Heather Stilwell decided to go into school politics she sent several of her children to parochial independent schools?

Exactly what would you expect of her in the public system?

As for when threads shut down here at Tyee, it has nothing to do with the conversations or the tone of them - the Hook stories normally last about 24 hours - on the main site comments end after 5 days.

If you don't believe that, send the editors and email and ask them.

Why don’t you just admit the fact that Mary Polak has blown any chance she ever had of a political future?

Today Ted Hughes was all over the media telling Ms Polak and the Premier to get a grip – I don’t suppose you noticed that either?

@G West

Many good questions. May I ask if you're a lawyer?

Also I'm with Ted Hughes - make a damn deal dammit. This is a pox on all Rockpile houses not Sean Holman's or Lana Popham's.

No

You may not ask.

Really "Threadkillah" Polakite?

You of all people are chastising anyone about discourse is rich... are the hockey pucks the equivalent the adolescent videos you shooting imaginary missiles (from the your side of the border, no doubt) at Carole James? Crike.

Once again, Polak is indefencible.