The Hook

This is interesting reporting.

There were lots of squeals and yelling against Photo Radar when it was brought in by the NDP.

The concept was good (proven in Australia and other countries), but the approach and implementation was bad.

Skywlaker's logic is not complete. He said:

"One could simply not speed and avoid paying a speeding ticket".

One could actually opt to not speed in the first place. That would prevent the ticket.

Done that many times, and still got to my destination ahead of time.

With Photo Radar people forgot the idea that if they didn't want a ticket, they could just slow down to the speed limit.

Not hard to do. And who cares what the other drivers think if you hold them up while driving the speed limit. Which is
a maximum, not an optimum speed.

Is HST a cash grab? Every tax is a cash grab including the GST, fuel taxes, property taxes, liquor taxes on that case of Lucky or Molsons, you name it.

Slowing down will save lives, and doesn't cost the government anything if people would just do it.

photo radar

Personally, I liked photo radar and wish they had a van parked a block apart everywhere!!

How soon they forget

Too many people with Bimmers and Mercs, Audis and Land Rovers were getting nailed - those guys are Campbell's friends.

Photo radar was a huge issue in the 2001 election - you think the BCLiberal elitists are going to bring back photo radar?

The statistics which show photo radar saves lives are irrefutable - they were irrefutable 10 years ago.

Did that stop the irresponsibility? Did that stop the campaign against the government which instituted photo radar?

These guys don't care. Never have - never will.

Wrong approach

"Photo radar was a huge issue in the 2001 election - you think the BCLiberal elitists are going to bring back photo radar?"

They wont. Neither will the NDP.

"Did that stop the campaign against the government which instituted photo radar?"

No, the campaign againt the government that brought in Photo Radar was based on
many other aspects, the people were simply
tired of the NDP and wanted change. The
results of the 2001 election reflect that.

There were others caught by Photo Radar namely those with Ford Taruses, battered up Ford pickup trucks Honda Civics and Nissans that were Ujjal's friends.

I have no problem with the

I have no problem with the basic concept of photo-radar. In certain countries in Europe there are fixed photo-towers everywhere even on back roads in the middle of nowhere. My trouble was the traffic speed limits would change so many times in a very short section of the road. Up to 80kph, down to 60, down to 50, then up to 90, then back to 50. The speed limits were all over the map that I had a feeling that the traffic authorities were trying to entrap the driver. I'm in full agreement that we should have photo-cameras at intersections; it seems that certain people in the lower mainland think that an orange light means 'go faster'.

Oh really!

Perhaps some BC Liberals have a selective memory; funny, this sure looks like Campbell campaign literature:
http://tinyurl.com/yfzxmha

- Now would the BC Liberals lie about the NDP's intentions?

As for that desire for change

We won't get any change until this government is gone...let me post for you the testimony of someone who was elected twice with the Campbell liberals...you can figure out yourself who it is.

And stay tuned, there's more....

No need, the quotes are from Nettleton

stay tuned? Why? The quotes are from Paul Nettleton who was expelled from the BC Liberals and sat as an independent when the statements were made.

Garth, if you're going to quote, use the
traditional way and mark off who made the quotes (P. Nettleton), and where they came from (Hansard).

It's not fourth year philosophy, but rather Grade 7 stuff, learning how to
quote from sources.

As for the link to the BC Liberal's website, the presentation they have made
on their website is a text book case of being over the top.

The NDP's leader has clearly said the NDP would not bring back Photo Radar.

Confused about a website and campaign

"Perhaps some BC Liberals have a selective memory; funny, this sure looks like Campbell campaign literature"

it's actually a silly statement posted from Heed's newsrelease, not campaign literature.

Is this NDP Campaign Literature?

http://tinyurl.com/yd93bdy

It was taken from a BC Liberal website

Here's the whole url:

http://www.bcliberals.com/stop_the_ndp/stop_the_ndp__learn_more/ndp_wants_to_resurrect_failed_photo_radar_plan

But, there is lots of other confirmation - try Michael Smyth at the Province -

http://www.theprovince.com/news/dgtv/With+photo+radar+screen+Liberals+crank+volume/2669700/story.html

BC Boy

This is the last thing I'm ever going to post in response to one of your obvious troll messages:

It's a direct quote from David Beers:

David Beers

4 days ago
Administrator

BC Boy yours is troll behaviour, GWest, you are rewarding it

Both of you stop or face being blocked.

I won't reward it any longer - you continue at your own peril.

Cheers.

I like Photo Radar and it

I like Photo Radar and it should never have been removed. My gosh, even so called Redneck Alberta has it.

It's quite simple to not get speeding tickets. Just do the following
1.Read the sign at the side of the road
2.Let your brain accept the information.
3.Adjust gas petal leg to do as the sign says.
For some airheads, it seems that getting stopped by a cop with a hand held radar unit is sort of different, but we all know it's the same thing, you speed , you get caught.
Any excuse about cash grab, not fair, etc simple would no longer exist. You speed, get caught, you pay and if lucky you habn't run into anyone or thing.

BC LIEBERALS

Are activating 144 photo cameras at intersections,starting in April.

And there is a rumour out there that the yellow light has been shortened from 3 seconds to 2 seconds at these intersections.

There is no difference,none at all.

They all do it,cash cows.

Photo cameras are not photo radar

"Are activating 144 photo cameras at intersections,starting in April."

Photo intersection cameras are not photo radar. The camera is switched on when the light turns red.

And there is a rumour out there that the yellow light has been shortened from 3 seconds to 2 seconds at these intersections.

Rumor or technical fact?

There is no difference,none at all.

They all do it,cash cows.

Stop at the light when it is red, go
when it is green. Big difference.

The traffic light isn't the Christmas
tree at Mission Raceway.

Red Light Cameras

There have been more than few jurisdictions where it has been demonstrated that red light cameras were about raising money, not safety.

In a number of locations - mostly the US as I recall - the cameras and ticketing are actually run by the camera company, who remit a cut of the cash to the government.

In return for that easy money the governments - usually municipal - agree to set up intersections in the manner that the camera companies demand.

That usually means making yellow light shorter, increasing the number of people who slip through on the red.

There was at least one study that found that making yellow lights longer actually lowered accident rates more than installing cameras.

I expect that photo-radio is equally bogus.

Photo radar..

I am in favour of photo radar,photo radar in school zones..and in intersections,that is where most accidents happen,and also on bridges.

However,I submit that there should be signs stating that photo radar cameras are there.

I am not in favour of cameras set up for fishing, like on one way highways miles from turnoffs or intersections.

I have never had a speeding ticket in my life,so they don`t bother me, however,speeding through intersections is a recipe for death, what better place for photo radar.

In Georgia in the USA..There is a class action law suit involving yellow light tampering.

WE have all been there,approaching an intersection, wet roads, sometimes it makes more sense to run a soft red light, however whenever this situation has presented itself to me, I run the red slowing down and a toot of the horn,I never stomp on the gas pedal.

BC Liberal Website is wrong

A previous poster sset links to the BC Liberal website where they are crying over the NDP bringing back Photo Radar.

The truth is, and you can read the direct quote from Carol James herself is that the NDP will not be bringing back Photo Radar.

There is just one NDPer who wants it returned, but that isn't going to happen.

One NDP MLA is not the entire caucus, and
he doesn't set policy direction for the Opposition.

The BC Liberal Website is wrong, just playing politics once again and can't get their facts straight, as per usual.

High priced help at their Party HQ and they can't even get a simple thing right.

appalbarry

I could care less if photo radar and red-light cameras make some money - that's immaterial - if they save lives - and there is lots of evidence that they do, then we should have them.

What the BC Liberals or the BC NDP say about each other’s plans is immaterial and irrelevant - photo radar saves lives and I care a lot more about preventing a few unnecessary deaths than I do about political sensibilities.

Bring back the cameras, charge drunk drivers like Rahim Jaffer, Gordon Campbell and Jane Thornthwaite and get them off the road - and do the same to Constance Barnes for that matter.

This horseshit argument isn't political - it's about saving lives and it’s about time people stepped up and stopped playing footsie with the truth! Tell your sob stories to someone who’s had a wife, a mother, a father, a child killed by one of these crazy people – get them off the road and keep them off.

Agreed Whiskey River!

Therein lies the inconsistency in the liberal policy thinking. If camera's at intersections are OK, then what is different about photo radar. Neither is a cash grab. If you don't break the law you don't pay anything. Simple! It really is no different than Police driving around in an unmarked cruiser. It is a cheaper enforcement tool. But like everything else the liberals are too obsessed with ideology than they are with common sense.

The latest is they have to give the auto dealers something so they tax private auto sales. Rerally a dumb bunch of nuts in charge.

Skywalker

Sky..Haven`t you heard, not only are they putting a new tax on used cars/boats/RVs..But...And you will love this..There is a new tax CUT on expensive vehicles...Any new vehicle over $55 thousand dollars has a tax reduction.

Well,I don`t have to worry about that,I don`t think my last three vehicles cost that combined!

Another gift to the upper Crusties!

Whiskey River.

No I missed that part. It's bad enough you pay tax on a used vehicle every time you sell it till it becomes junk. The Auto Dealers Ass'n. give a ton of money to the BC Liberals. None of this bothers them. It isn't a conflict of interest they'll say. But just let the NDP change labour legislation so that unions have an easier time organizing and you hear the peanut gallery shouting "the cozy relationship between labour and the NDP."

Don't sell junk sell a car.

The "hidden tax" was always there. You paid it when you bought at Car City.

Now it will need to be paid when you
write the cheque to Charlie the Curber for that 1993 Ford Taurus Wagon or
to Terry the Truck Driver for that 1992 Honda Civic or your Uncle Harry who has a ncie 1948 Plymouth Town and Country that hasn't left the barn sine 1971 and has
only 35,000 miles on it.

Just evens out the field.

The peanut gallery had already shouted
"the cozy relationship between business and the Liberals".

So nothing new there. Just a diffferent
direction the same old whine comes from.

Red light cameras work!

Ask me how I know.....:)

BC Boy

The used car tax matters not,people,the players will beat the system anyway.

A $5000 thousand dollar used car will now get sold with a wink and a nod for say $2000 thousand dollars.

or free,as a gift.

And I blame no one for playing the game.

And the only WINING is you,glug glug.

Have a good day.

happy

How do you know?

A poster loses money

"The used car tax matters not,people,the players will beat the system anyway."

They always do. Nothing new there.

"A $5000 thousand dollar used car will now get sold with a wink and a nod for say $2000 thousand dollars."

So someone is out $3000 nice going. I
certainly wouldn't do that. I'd want the
$5000, the additional tax is up to the buyer to cover, not me.

or free,as a gift.

Give a stranger a gift? Only if it's
a 1987 Hyundai Pony. Might as well give
junk like that away, it would cost more
to tow it to the junk yard.

And I blame no one for playing the game.

Of course not.

And the only WINING is you,glug glug.

No, its the NDPers.

Have a good day.

The poster obviously hasn't had one.

Thanks for asking Frank

Well, after recieving a polite letter from ICBC with a picture of my license plate asking (requiring) me to make a $165 donation I can attest that it makes you think twice next time....

BC Boy

You are thick.

Maybe one of the kinder contributors can it explain it to you.

Sheesh!

happy

$165? Geez, I'll remember that when temptation beckons.

Happy

Happy...I hope you didn`t get your ticket on the sunshine coast,how many traffic light intersections do we have..

4 or 5 between Gibsons and earls cove,running for the ferry?

No explaination needed.

"You are thick.

Maybe one of the kinder contributors can it explain it to you.

Sheesh!"

No explaination needed.

Offered price $5000.

Buyer pays out any taxes on top of that
on a private deal. If he doesn't the car
stays covered.

Better to be honest up front than trying
to be creative.

A person has to be thick to lose $3000.00
on a $5000.00 deal just to bypass $600
that paid is by the buyer and ends up with the government.

No worries Whisky

I only do my law bustin'in the big city rat race.
On the coast the fastest thing I normally drive is my John Deere mower...

BTW, I like your new name. Do you think you might hang onto it for at least a week or two this time?

Cheers

John Deere Mower

The one with the dual exhaust and loud.

They still allow those in Roberts Creek?

Must thrill the Bee Keepers.

As for my new name, I`m shooting for a month before I lose it!

Although....Never mind.

Goodnight Happy

Christy Clark and Kash Heed

I heard the above pair on CKNW discussing the photo radar issue today. It was kind of pathetic. He was mealy-mouthed, and she was shrill and illogical.

Right-wingers and teenagers don't like it, but I like to think that most BCers are intelligent and compassionate enough to recognize that photo radar is an effective tool for reducing the amount of vehicular death in our society.

Driving is a privilege and not a right and so spare me the guff about rights, Big Brother, etc.

France reduced its "road toll" (car-related deaths) by one half over the space of five years with the help of photo radar.

BC Bud

I'll be kind this time and instead of saying your thick then you must have led a sheltered life.
Its called under the table. Buyer agrees to pay 5000 if Seller agrees to say it was only 3000 on the transfer papers. Buyer gets full amount, Seller gets better deal by paying less taxes and government out the difference.
Nod nod, wink wink.

OK, I got that backwards

SELLER gets full amount and BUYER gets better deal.
Government still loses.

The rules of the game

I'm a big fan of red light cameras. Having watched the one at 1st and Clark for two years when I had business down there, there's no reason for getting tagged at one of those, even with the size of some of those intersections we have down here in the Big Smoke. The flash-tag comes a full two seconds after the light turns red, so everyone who gets one deserves what they get - sorry Happy! There are far too many people that are driving like they've got a glass of water on the dashboard, and don't want to spill it for a stop of any kind....

On the other hand, I've a far better way to reduce the death toll on the roads. Make every licence renewal more than just a check of the pulse and the depth of glazing on the eyeballs. Take the test over again every five years, and be reminded how to merge onto a highway, parallel park in a real parking space downtown, decline to turn across a solid line unless you are not obstructing traffic in either direction, signalling turns, keeping left on the freeway except to pass.... don't let me get started.

The point being, with 10 demerits allowed for a PASS on the road test, most drivers will be out less than 60 seconds before using up their allotment. And no retest for 30 days minimum, with proof of at least some training.

...at a real driving school, not one of these bullshit ones that guarantees you a pass regardless of which language you speak.

Good info Zalm

Two seconds eh? So next time I should just hammer the gas instead of floating through at cruising speed!
Joking....I only have to get hit over the head once ($165)to smarten up. Usually.

Dishonest

"I'll be kind this time and instead of saying your thick then you must have led a sheltered life."

Not reallyt, but keep tryuing.

Its called under the table.

Also called being a bit dishonest.

Sorry wouldn't go that route.

Buyer agrees to pay 5000 if Seller agrees to say it was only 3000 on the transfer papers. Also dilutes the value for insurance purposes, so if vehicle is a write off, there's less money paid out
since the transfer paper is part of the
ICBC record.

Can you say fraud? Also when it comes to
reselling again, it says #3000.00 on transfer paper which - surprise - dilutes
the value of a $5000.00 vehicle next time
since the next buyer might want to see that transfer paper as a sign of actual value.

Buyer gets full amount, Seller gets better deal by paying less taxes and government out the difference.
Nod nod, wink wink.

and if caught, the Seller has to explain
his actions.

Why not jut be honest and say "$5000.00"
buyer pays out, plus applicable taxes.

Just be honest and forget the under the table crap.

Excellent suggestion zalm

That one about a re-test every time a driver's licence comes up for renewal...

The deal about lowballing value on private car sales isn't fraud...that's just 'business'. No one, with any sense, is putting any more than liability insurance on a $5000 clunker these days anyway. The point is that the system won't generate more money for the government - it'll just encourage more business 'deals'.

Much like the Campbell tax - not a gram of CO2 production less, huge administrative costs and another black hole in the provincial budget.

Exactly the kind of thing Gordon Campbell's friends - all together now can you say Doug Wall - know all about.

Licenses for cash

Oh indeed,some people shouldn`t be allowed on the roads.

And a little on used cars,family members often give cars to each other as gifts.

And they still have an insured value.

Also,how many people buy cars for Value X...Only to be told it is worth value NIL after an accident?

Your premise is flawed BCBoy, the treasure hunter can but a Monet at a garage sale,beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder.

And I have never heard of a law forcing someone to get maximum value or profit on a sale.

For if that was the case,Gordon Campbell would be looking through vertical steel and rattling the cage for asswipe.

Interesting to note.

That the thoughtful debate carries on with occasional juvenile postings inserted which everyone largely ignores. Way to go folks!

Strangers aren't family

And a little on used cars,family members often give cars to each other as gifts."

True, but lowballing for strangers doesn't
mean the stranger is a friend.

And they still have an insured value.

"Also,how many people buy cars for Value X...Only to be told it is worth value NIL after an accident?"

Depends on the severity of the accident.

If a $3000 car has a severely bent frame
or unibody, it may end up being written off.

"Your premise is flawed BCBoy, the treasure hunter can but a Monet at a garage sale,beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder."

Pass on the $5000 rusted Hyundai Pony that
has been "discounted" to $3000.00

And I have never heard of a law forcing someone to get maximum value or profit on a sale.

There isn't one, but the price is set by
the seller ($5000.00). I'd be very suspicious of someone wanting it "discounted" on paper to $3000.00 even though the $5000.00 is written on the cheque.

The idea of a sale is to get as much value
as one can. That's the idea of the sale.

For if that was the case,Gordon Campbell would be looking through vertical steel and rattling the cage for asswipe.

Huh? How is that related to photo radar?

and also accept the terms

and also the sale means accepting the terms set by the seller. So, the $5000 value goes on the transfer paper. If the buyer doesn't like it, go elsewhere.

If the buyer doesn't want to be honest and payout what is required in taxation on the purchase of a vehicle, that isn't my problem.

If a person wants the discount on paper, there's obviously something wrong there, boys. He either can't or isn't willing to
pay out the tax on $5000.00.

But again, to end this silly chain of
advocacy of the "under the table" "business" that isn't my concern.

Again it comes down to being honest.

There's too many dishonest people especially when it comes to used cars.

and we haven't even got into the part about vehicle inspection, history and so forth.

But if you want to sell your 1987 Hyundai Pony that has rust on it and "discount"
$5000.00 to $3000.00 to help some sad sack
avoid higher taxes, that's your choice.

Not doing so is mine.

End of story.

Good points Skywalker, Whiskey and happy

Have and always will be 'private' matters - the negotiations and the establishment of a 'price' are a matter of contract between the two parties. As long as you aren't flipping vehicles there is never going to be any change in that relationship and the tax department (and ICBC) aren't going to get involved. Period. In fact, there won’t BE any provincial sales tax department after July 1 anyway…ICBC will just be the collectors of the loose change for PeeWee. The only time I’ve ever heard of a ‘valuation’ dispute on a vehicle transfer transaction is in the case of a vehicle being ‘imported’ from another country of province – that’s not going to change.

The problem here is that there has always been provincial sales tax upon the declared 'value' of the car at the time the sales transaction takes place...now, because there will be an additional 5% added to that tax charge bringing the total to 12% on the declared 'value' of the vehicle the BC Liberals hope to take in, through ICBC, the same amount of money they would have prior to the imposition of the HST.

The federal government's take will increase from nothing to 5% of whatever the gross value of declared private sales are in each fiscal year - would anyone care to wager that the provincial treasury will not take in as much after the imposition of the HST relative to similar numbers of vehicles sold?

Sales take place for all kinds of reasons and the value of the sale (for money and other valuable consideration) will simply be adjusted to reduce the private purchaser's exposure to the additional tax.

You see, that's the problem with sales taxes - and that's the reason why income taxes and taxes based upon ability to pay are preferable to sales taxes.

And of course, the switch to the HST will also saddle the provincial treasury with another significant expense - if Ontario legislation is any example - provincial civil servants there (who are switching to federal employees when their HST comes into effect) are getting a $45K payoff just for changing to the federal payroll.

Must be nice - in most cases they'll be in the same offices doing exactly the same work - but they will have that extra little payoff to keep them happy.

You think BC consumers won't feel they've been screwed once again by their so-called representatives Skywalker?

G West

Your right,sort of..

The Federal government has never charged tax on private sales of autos,boats, etc..

There was always 7% provincial tax on private sales,but no GST.

The Campbell government will keep all 12% of the tax,none of this tax will go to the federal government.

Campbell thinks people will think it`s an HST tax,but it isn`t.

And Garth, there are more examples of this I`m sure, and it`s also my belief that the quoted savings from disposing of Provincial tax collectors is overstated,the BC Government will still need tax people.

Mr. West..

One more thing on this auto/boat/RV/private sale tax.

I have a legal question for you, in the context of the HST,is it even legal for the Province to charge this tax on private sales,with the HST, the extra 5% on private sale, shouldn`t it HAVE to be collected by the Federal Government?

And secondly, shouldn`t said sellers be able to claim the 5% back?

Input credits for advertising,input credits for pre-sale repairs?

Personally I think Campbell government is trying have it both ways.

And I believe that the extra 5% tax on private sales should flow back to the seller.

I think thereis a case for a legal challenge.

Whiskey

Are you sure about that? I think it's going to be HST and I think the feds will keep their share.

The sales tax

The sales tax has always been collected when the transfer documents are filed with ICBC - in order to register the vehicle you have to pay the tax...I don't think that's going to change. And you're right the tax bill is going to jump from 7% to 12% the moment the calendar flips to July...and that's why private sellers and buyers are going to 'negotiate' a lower price for their transactions.

The question now is: does that money, when collected, go to the Feds and then the feds submit Gordon's share back to the province and keep the balance? I think that's what will happen in every other type of sale so it seems very strange that it wouldn't happen for private vehicle sales.

But, I haven't seen the legislation because it hasn't been written yet - and, knowing what I do about the slap-happy way the Executive Council works in this province - I wager they haven't seen it either.

It would be interesting to look at how private vehicle sales are transacted in an HST only jurisdiction like one of the Maritime provinces.

I'll take a look.

G West

I am 100% accurate...There was never a GST on private sales,NEVER!

And the raise in tax on private sales will NOT BE CALLED HST.

Even Vaughn Palmer today on the cutting ledge confirmed that there has never been a GST on private car/boat/RVs/planes sales.

This is a blatant tax grab,but my question is a legal one, does the Province under HST legislation have the ability to collect this tax,especially since it will not be called a HST tax.

And if they do collect it, won`t they need tax collectors?

Won`t this new tax have to have a brand new name,they can`t call it a 12% PST tax..

Will they call it a 12% transfer tax,or a 12% gouge tax..or some funky new name like a 12% green tax?

I think it's pretty clear

The Provincial Government obviously got an earful from the BC Car dealers association because of this:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/gr/news47/news47-e.pdf

You'll note the description of the transaction on page 2 of the flyer....

The car dealers went to gordon, with cap in one hand and their other hand clutching the sweaty palm of their favourite lobbyist, and said - 'Gord, we gotta have a level playing field - please fella - remember how you got here.'

And that's why the policy changed and that's why there's gonna be HST on private sales.

Details, administrative and other, to follow.

You're right about no GST on private sales

And that's why this little wrinkle will nominally cost consumers 5% more when they buy a vehicle privately....but, as you've astutely observed, the buyer and the seller are perfectly free to negotiate a price which takes the government's backsheesh into account....all this is about is a reach-around to the New Car Dealers...and, in my view, it won't generate a single penny of extra revenue...except perhaps for the feds and we just don't know about that until we see the legislation....

I don't think sellers can claim input credits

If they're going to try to do that the tax department would say they're setting up an arrangement in the nature of trade and they aren't simply a private individual choosing to sell a vehicle or a chattel from time to time. In fact, there are federal tax court cases where ebay tried to keep the identity of sellers (who had a lot of transactions) secret from Revenue Canada. They lost.

If you start claiming expenses for input tax credits the tax boys are going to start sniffing around and they'll assert the seller is in business and making income from that business.

I don't think it would work.

This webpage is actually kind of interesting

Given my speculation above:
http://www.hstincanada.com/2010/01/canadian-automobile-dealers-association-in-support-hst/

Tax name

Garth,it`s a tax grab form Gordo,Agreed?

It`s a gift to his car dealer buddies,Wall n co...Agreed?

But Garth,they cannot call this new tax on private sales the HST...Because then they could not legally keep the extra 5%.

And Garth, it`s in the budget,the sleight on Hansen budget has claimed the tax increase on private sales will bring in roughly $75 million dollars per year in revenue...
Well Garth, they already got the 7% in the past on private sales,so the only way is could generate NEW tax revenue would be if the Province is keeping the extra 5%..

In other words,they cannot call the increased tax on private sales HST...

That would be fraud,and they couldn`t legally keep the extra 5%....

However,if they did call the new tax on private sales HST...The federal government would have to collect the 5% and make a side deal to send it back to the Province.

Which again,is that legal,I don`t think so...And I don`t think Harpo needs the headache for a few dribbles of cash when he needs billions!

You could be right

And, just for interest's sake, I checked out who did the 'lobbying' for the New Car Dealers in the past....not that he was ever registered as a lobbyist.

Guess who? Progressive - meaning Patrick Kinsella and/or his buddy Jiles (Jiles did eventually register - Kinsella not so much)

As for the legality - that's not a problem for these guys - they get to write the laws.

We'll just have to wait and see what they come up with - but even if they intend to scoop it all, it's not going to be the windfall they think it is.

Personally, I think you might be right about Pee Wee too - I wouldn't be surprised he wishes he'd never heard of Gordon Campbell some days.

And he's not alone.

Agreed

Very interesting day Garth...

Shirley Bond yesterday ripped into Translink,Translink fired back..

And more..Shirley Bond tore a strip off the Mayors Council yesterday,bond basically said..Go to your voters and dig deep into their pockets..

And today..Dianne Watts fired back at Shirley Bond complaing about the Province downloading cost onto cities,Watts stated the taxpayers are maxed out, in other words, the Province can find the money for the evergreen line...

And it gets better Garth..On the cutting ledge today..Greg Moore the mayor called in to the show and...

Greg Moore tore a strip off of Shirley Bond.

We are witnessing a full blown collapse from the BC Liberals,their traditional allies are getting in their licks and distancing themselves.

And for Dianne Watts to fire from the hip against Shirley Bond and the BC Liberals..

Looks like Watts has said...Adios Gorddochio!

Which makes my day...I should send the message to AGT.

Thanks Garth...Always a pleasure having an intelligent conversation with you.

Have a look at this

http://www.gnb.ca/0162/tax/pvttppt-e.asp

I've also sent a query to the Ontario tax dept for a clarification - the material on their website isn't conclusive. This is all they have to say on the subject:

Private Transfers of Motor Vehicles
Similar to the tax treatment in other provinces, Ontario would retain a sales tax on private transfers of used motor vehicles. This would help to ensure a level playing field between used vehicles sold through dealerships and private sales.

Does that LOOK familiar to you?

But, more and more, I think the province is intending to claim the whole enchilada for themselves.

Shirley Bond is, in my opinion, incapable of handling the simplest chores - let alone running a ministry of any government...

Interesting and...

Well that about confirms it G West...In New Brunswick where they have the HST ...

Private auto/boat etc etc sales get taxed the same rate as the HST but...It`s called the PVT (Provincial vehicle tax)...

But also..You have to go pay the tax at a Provincial taxing authority.In other words,we will still have tax employees...As I suspected all along.

The bottom line is..It`s a tax grab in BC,they tax grabbed in New Brunswick..

And they(BC) will hope people believe it`s the HST...But it`s too late,the cat is out of the bag.

So now in BC as of July 1st there will be a 12% PVT on private sales...But like you G West, I don`t believe they will reap the rewards they think they will.

That understating of the sale price on private sales has been there forever.

It`s about to become more pervasive.

Why tax speeders

when you can tax all drivers by taking IOCBC money!