Opinion

A Tyee Series

BC's Most Likely Next Premier? George Abbott

Why the farmer, historian and career politician is favoured to succeed Gordon Campbell.

By Will McMartin, 11 Feb 2011, TheTyee.ca

GeorgeAbbottHeadshot

A moderate with rural roots, Abbott should squeak in.

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[Editor's note: This is the last of three articles in which Tyee contributing editor Will McMartin profiles the top Liberal leadership candidates and handicaps their chances of winning. He's given Christy Clark odds of 4-1 and Kevin Falcon 3-1. Today he offers his betting line on George Abbott.]

One of the sillier accusations leveled against former NDP leader Carole James during the 2009 general election campaign was that she didn't have sufficient "business experience" to become the Premier of British Columbia.

It was a puzzling denunciation. After all, the entrepreneurial career of Gordon Campbell, B.C.'s soon-to-be ex-premier, was little more than a brief (and, for his investors, disastrous) turn as a hotel developer in the early 1980s. And that didn't seem to bother the province's business interests.

Still, it might be germane today to ask: what, exactly, are the private-sector credentials of the six candidates now seeking to replace Campbell?

Has any one among them ever run a large corporation? Can one or more be described as a "captain of industry"?

Are there any entrepreneurs among the bunch? At a minimum, have any of the candidates, to use that hoary phrase, ever met a payroll?

Not really. Surprisingly, business experience seems to count for little in the BC Liberal leadership contest now underway. (Could it be a prerequisite the private sector demands only from left-of-centre politicians?)

Kevin Falcon and Christy Clark both very briefly operated their own one-person consulting firms -- to do political organizing for the provincial Liberal party -- before winning election to the Legislative Assembly and becoming full-time politicians. (Clark, of course, in 2005 quit practicing politics to talk on the radio.)

Mike de Jong, a lawyer, once had a one-man practice in Abbotsford, and Moira Stilwell, a physician, worked at the taxpayer-funded BC Women's Hospital.

Interestingly, the candidate with the most impressive curriculum vitae, business wise, is Ed Mayne, the former Parksville mayor who toiled at a major bank before becoming a restaurant executive at Tim Horton's and Wendy's. His odds of being elected party leader, however, are about the same as for a three-legged horse to win the Kentucky Derby.

Abbott's farming pedigree

That leaves George Abbott as arguably the most entrepreneurial candidate on the roster of BC Liberal leadership contenders. For two decades before he won a seat in the legislative assembly, Abbott operated an agricultural enterprise based in Sicamous.

Well, actually he was a partner with his father in a family-owned blueberry and strawberry farm. And while the business may have been marginally profitable (as is the case with nearly all small farms in B.C.), it doesn't seem to have provided Abbott with a significant income.

For that he relied on taxpayers, because one way or another, as a college instructor and an elected politician, Abbott has been on the public payroll for more than three decades. So, while he can plausibly claim to having been an entrepreneurial risk-taker, he's also a well-seasoned public servant.

Above all, Abbott is the only candidate that hails from rural (or Interior) B.C. That, plus his reputation as a "moderate," makes him the narrow favourite to succeed Campbell as BC Liberal leader on February 26.

Politics called from early age

A third-generation Shuswap resident, George Abbott was born in Enderby in November 1952. His grandparents had moved to the area after losing their farm in Manitoba during the Great Depression, and his parents got married and settled in Sicamous after the Second World War.

Fascinated by politics from an early age, Abbott later recalled discussing with his mother, when he was a child, the relative merits of such luminaries as Lester Pearson, John Diefenbaker, and U.S. President John F. Kennedy. He also witnessed the charisma of Pierre Elliot Trudeau in 1968 as the federal Liberal leader toured the Okanagan and recorded a sweeping general election victory.

Two years after Trudeau's ascension to power, following graduation from the local high school, the budding Liberal enrolled at the Salmon Arm campus of Okanagan College. He transferred the following year to the University of British Columbia in Vancouver and obtained a bachelor's degree, and then took his post-graduate studies at the University of Victoria.

In January 1976, Abbott was accepted into a then-new legislative intern program, a five (now six) month initiative offering as many as 10 university students real-life work experience with bureaucrats in government departments and politicians in the Parliament Buildings.

(Other notable alumni of B.C.'s intern program include Barry Penner, currently attorney general and minister of aboriginal relations; Martyn Brown, Campbell's former chief of staff; and Dave Basi of BC Railgate infamy.)

It was an exciting time in B.C. politics for on Dec. 11, 1975, mere weeks before Abbott started his internship, Bill Bennett's Social Credit party had overthrown Dave Barrett's New Democratic Party government. The right-left polarization marking B.C. politics since the early 1930s was at a fever pitch.

Yet, active politics seems to have held little appeal for the 24-year-old Abbott. He completed the intern program, collected his MA from UVic, and returned to Sicamous to join his father in running the family's blueberry operation.

Is it reasonable to assume that Abbott was one of a few farmers in British Columbia who could boast of having a master's degree in political science?

Scholar of Duff Pattullo

He may have fled Victoria, but the budding berry businessman hadn't lost his love of politics. And one may speculate that like nearly all B.C. farmers (see here), Abbott found agriculture to be a financially challenging vocation.

Just two short years after he had become a full-time farmer, Abbott, then 26, won election to the board of the Columbia-Shuswap Regional District. And not long afterward he put his MA to good use, getting a job teaching political science at his old alma mater, the Salmon Arm campus of Okanagan College.

Abbott taught for 15 years, and near the end of his tenure he published two articles in the scholarly journal BC Studies. Both focused on British Columbia's last Liberal premier (before Gordon Campbell).

"Duff Pattullo and the Coalition Controversy of 1941," was the title of his initial effort (which appeared in the summer of 1994), and it was followed by "Pattullo, The Press, and the Dominion-Provincial Conference of 1941" (published in autumn, 1996).

On the former Abbott was identified as a political science instructor at Okanagan College; the latter noted that he had been a teacher "...until his recent election as MLA for Shuswap."

It was true: Abbott himself had made history, squeaking into the legislative assembly with a laughably-small sliver of the popular vote.

"I did have the distinction of having the lowest winning percentage in the 1996 election, at 34.7 per cent,” he informed the house after being re-elected in 2001 (with a considerably higher 56.3 per cent).

"I've always said that I feel remarkably better than the guy who had the highest losing percentage, because I did get to spend some time here."

Era of slashed tax revenues

Abbott was named minister of community, aboriginal and women's services in June 2001, where he pronounced "commitments" he proved unable to keep (see sidebar), and then shuffled over to sustainable resource management in Jan. 2004.

A year and a half later, following the Campbell government's re-election, he was elevated to the health services portfolio.

Eight full pages were devoted to health issues in the 2001 BC Liberal New Era platform, and one of many (see pages 18-25 here) pledges on the topic was to "Increase future health care funding as economic growth increases government revenues."

Except, well, it's hard -- and probably impossible -- to increase government revenues when the party in power is constantly slashing its income sources.

In fiscal 2000/01, just before the Campbell Liberals began their tax-whacking efforts, Victoria's annual receipts represented 22.6 per cent of B.C.'s gross domestic product. By 2009/10 that figure was down to an even 20.0 per cent.

Put another way, the BC Liberals' incessant tax-cutting over the last decade has caused Victoria's revenues to fail to keep pace with economic growth.

Expenditures followed revenues in their downward trajectory. From 21.7 per cent of GDP in 2000/01, public spending fell to a low of 18.8 per cent in 2006/07, before rising slightly to 20.9 per cent in the recession-plagued year of 2009/10.

ABBOTT HAS 'COMMITMENT' ISSUES

"[T]his is a government that actually is going to keep its word, a government that, when it makes a commitment, is actually going to keep it."

So stated George Abbott, newly minted BC Liberal minister of community, aboriginal and women's services, a few weeks after swearing the oath of office in 2001.

"In understanding this government and what it will be doing over the next four years, I think one of the key words that people ought to bear in mind is commitment," Abbott told his peers in the Legislature. He then cited a specific Liberal election commitment that was his responsibility to deliver.

"Increased funding for the BC Arts Council to promote and support B.C. arts, music, artists and culture," Abbott pledged, repeating the exact words in his party's New Era platform (see page 10, here.)

"It's going to be great to support those groups. . . "

Except that, well, Abbott and the BC Liberals also had promised "dramatic" tax cuts. Which they delivered, costing the provincial treasury more than $2.1 billion -- yes, billion -- annually. Gigantic shortfalls quickly appeared on the province's books. And Abbott's "commitment" to boost arts spending waned.

In the spring of 2002 -- seven months after Abbott had vowed the BC Liberal government was "going to keep its word" -- the new minister conceded that, among other cuts, he had whacked all funding for the B.C. Festival of the Arts. "It was actually a very difficult decision," he whinged, "but given the fiscal constraints we had. . . "

By early 2003, Abbott had to acknowledge that the province's major arts body wasn't going to get its promised funding increase after all. "We have protected the budget for the B.C. Arts Council at $11.1 million," he wheedled. "We are hoping, perhaps in the next fiscal year or the year after that, to see at least a modest increase in the funding. . . "

Oh, well. Abbott soon was moving on to a different ministry. And in June 2005, after he and the BC Liberals had won re-election to government, the ex-berry farmer got a major promotion to the Health Services portfolio. -- W.M.

Measured as a proportion of B.C.'s economy -- which surely is what the Campbell Liberals meant in their New Era platform when they combined "health care funding" with "economic growth" -- health outlays over the last decade stayed virtually static.

(Rather than recite all of the figures behind that last statement, readers can look at Table A2.8 on page 75 for health spending under GAAP, and Table A2.18 on page 85 for the same in the Consolidated Revenue Fund, here.)

What the numbers show is that the BC Liberals actually have kept their 2001 promise. Health expenditures have grown (in real terms) in concert with economic growth.

Joining the chorus of health spending doom

Except, that's not how the Campbell Liberals portrayed health care costs. Instead, they attempted to spark a public outcry over allegedly out-of-control, shooting-to-the-moon, oh-my-God-we're-doomed, health spending.

The "spin" campaign got into high gear in September 2006 when Carole Taylor, the then-finance minister, released the province's first quarterly report for 2006/07. With a straight face, Taylor unveiled a chart showing B.C.'s health expenditures were exploding at such a phenomenal rate that by 2017/18 they would consume 71.3 per cent of the provincial budget. (See slide 15, here.)

A few sycophantic press gallery denizens swallowed Taylor's scare tactics whole, but more level-headed observers hooted with laughter at the absurdity of her claims. (See here, here, and here.

Undeterred, Gordon Campbell then launched a multi-million dollar public relations campaign -- the "Conversation on Health" -- that pretended to solicit opinion from ordinary British Columbians on how to address the non-existent "crisis".

For a time, Abbott let Taylor and Campbell do the heavy lifting before the public with their Chicken Little refrains of "health costs are a tsunami," while he quietly wooed starry-eyed journalists with a glass of red wine in his office and a friendly chat with his deputy minister.

Bad day in the Leg

By the spring of 2008, however, Abbott decided to take centre-stage -- and promptly fell flat on his face.

The occasion was second reading of the Medicare Protection Amendment Act, 2008, a silly, useless bill, which -- following hot on the heels of the Conversation on Health -- purported to add a sixth principle, sustainability, to the Canada Health Act. (The original five principles are public administration, comprehensiveness, universality, portability and accessibility.)

"We have some serious challenges to sustainability." Abbott intoned when he opened the second reading on the bill. "Health expenditures have grown at more than twice the rate of GDP over the last 20 years. They are growing at nearly quadruple the rate of inflation in this past decade."

And then he blundered into one of the saddest, silliest performances ever seen in the provincial legislature.

It seems that the opposition New Democrats earlier had issued a news release stating that -- and Abbott read this into Hansard -- "Health spending as a percentage of B.C.'s gross domestic product was 7.4 per cent in 2001-2002 and decreased to 6.9 per cent in 2006-2007."

He quickly accelerated into high dudgeon. The NDP, Abbott fumed, were "saying that the percentage of GDP occupied by health care actually declined over those five years. That would be very interesting, were it the case. . .

"Unfortunately, the claim. . . is entirely specious. It is entirely without basis. It is utter nonsense."

And what or who was the source for the New Democrats' allegedly erroneous information? Why, none other than the left-leaning Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives -- or so Abbott claimed.

"Well, that is the sound of hitting the bottom of the barrel, when you pull in Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives to try to justify the absolutely specious nonsense that the NDP is trotting out here," he blustered.

"And now we're going to use their figures to try to justify specious claims about proportion of the GDP that's occupied by health care spending. Well, that's a new one."

Abbott continued his rant for about an hour (from just after 4:30 pm until about 5:35 pm) before Adrian Dix, the NDP health critic, rose in response.

"What an embarrassing performance we just witnessed," Dix began. And then he delivered the denouement.

"The source for it wasn't the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. . . It's the B.C. Financial and Economic Review -- published, of course, by his colleague the Minister of Finance. That's the source of the information."

It was true. (The information in question may be found in Table A2.20 on page 95 here.)

What numbers? I see no numbers

More to the point, it is standard practice for government economists in Victoria to compare a variety of fiscal indicators to the province's gross domestic product, so as to measure the public sector's financial sustainability.

B.C.'s Public Accounts for 2009/10, for example, lists about a half-dozen such calculations, including the "ratio of net liabilities to GDP," "the ratio of own-source revenue to GDP," and "the ratio of expense to GDP."

The 2010 Financial and Economic Review offers another dozen or so, such as "taxpayer-supported debt to GDP" and "net liabilities to GDP."

And even the government's last Budget and Fiscal Plan, for 2010/11, had more than two dozen references to GDP ratios.

Revenues and expenditures, deficits and debt -- and more -- all measured against the province's gross domestic product. But not health spending. Nope; Abbott and the BC Liberals explicitly reject that sort of calculation because it only serves to expose the "health crisis" as a total fabrication.

Why Abbott is best bet to win

Notwithstanding George Abbott's disappointing performance as health minister, he enjoys several advantages that make him the (narrow) favourite to succeed Gordon Campbell as BC Liberal leader on Feb. 26.

At 58 years of age, Abbott is more than a decade older than his main rivals, Kevin Falcon, 47, and Christy Clark, 44. Unlike them, he'll probably never get another shot at becoming the premier of British Columbia. The ex-farmer, in other words, may want the top job just a little more than do they -- and will do what it takes to prevail.

More to the point, Abbott is a serious grown-up in a contest where questions have been raised as to the gravitas, or lack thereof, of both Clark and Falcon. He'll probably attract a significant number of second-choice ballots after the first round of ballot counting.

Importantly, the 15-year MLA also has taken more endorsements (18) from his caucus colleagues than any other leadership candidate. (Falcon follows at 16; Clark has one; Mike de Jong, Moira Stilwell and Ed Mayne, none.)

As well, many of those endorsements come (as does Abbott) from outside the Lower Mainland. And that brings us to Abbott's greatest advantage: he is the only candidate from B.C.'s vast Interior. The region -- his geographic "base" -- holds 24 legislative seats. Sixteen of those were won by the BC Liberals in 2009, and seven Interior MLAs are backing Abbott -- in the Okanagan: Eric Foster, Norm Letnick, John Slater and Steve Thomson; in the Kootenays: Bill Bennett; in Thompson-Coquihalla: Terry Lake; and in the North: John Rustad.

In an equal-weighted contest where every riding gets 100 votes, Abbott ought to be able to count on at least 40 per cent of the Interior's ballots. And if he can obtain as little as 20 per cent of the votes from the province's remaining 51 electoral districts (an easily achievable task with his endorsements from MLAs in Richmond, North and West Vancouver, the Fraser Valley and Vancouver Island), he should finish no worse than second on the convention's first ballot.

From that position, Abbott should advance steadily with second- and third-choice votes from those who supported candidates dropped off after the initial round of ballot-counting.

(The Tyee estimates that each of Abbott, Clark and Falcon will have between 2,000 and 3,000 votes after the first round of counting on Feb. 26, with de Jong, Mayne and Stilwell having a combined total of less than 1,400.)

Much depends, of course, on the skill of each leadership campaign team. And Abbott's was badly out-hustled by Clark's and Falcon's organizers on membership recruitment.

Still, and despite having not much more "business experience" than departed NDP leader Carole James, the ex-berry farmer is the odds-on choice to succeed Gordon Campbell.

The Tyee puts the odds of an Abbott victory on Feb 26. at 5-2.  [Tyee]

43  Comments:

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  • bud carlos

    1 year ago

    Handicapping

    If he's the favourite it seems to me the odds should be shorter, maybe, say, 3-2.
    The odds were better on the first guy, 4-1. Can't remember his name, but that's
    where my money's going.

  • Van Isle

    1 year ago

    Will, all your articles are

    Will, all your articles are excellent with amazingly amounts of research material for back up. How come people like Bill Good and Michael Smyth never have you on their programs? I hear constantly from CKNW talking heads on the Chicken-shit, oops sorry, Chicken-little theories on the Medical care troubles.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Will

    Great job on all 3 of your columns this week. From the beginning I figured Abbott will take it although I can't believe Christy Clark is still leading this pack.

    I would have thought her history and personality would have caught up with her by now. God help us if a loose cannon like that ever won.

    All that being said, Kevin Falcon better win this thing, I want to see an NDP government :)

  • squishy

    1 year ago

    Very good analysis, but...

    The elephant in the room is if the BC Libs will actually go for the weighted-voting system this weekend. If they don't, Abbott drops off the map altogether on the first ballot and de Jong becomes the everyone's-second-choice candidate.

    If the weighted-vote system does go through, I think you're right though -- but Abbott reminds me an awful lot of Ed Stelmach in Alberta.

  • John Greg

    1 year ago

    Of Course Not

    Quote:
    ... business experience seems to count for little in the BC Liberal leadership contest now underway.

    Of course it doesn't. The one and only thing that counts is how willing, capable, and prepared the (presumptive) politician is to lather their lips, teeth, and gums, with the deep dark brown lipstick of the corporate suite.

    Nothing else matters a whit.

    (--- Many belated thanks to FZ.)

    By the by, I do think Will's article are great, notwithstanding the emptiness or purposelessness of that particular quote.

  • Stewart MacKenzie

    1 year ago

    EEEEEEEYYYOOOOOOOOHHH!!!!!

    EEEEEEEYYYOOOOOOOOHHH!!!!!

  • metacomet

    1 year ago

    About George

    Thanks Will McMartin for a good series. I like the well articulated breakdowns that undo the BC Liberal double-talk like Falcon's "pay as you go" and the bogus business credentials.

    As for George Abbott: of course he's to be held accountable for the government he's been a minister in. I agree that he's probably the best the Liberals can produce, but the best he deserves is leader of the official Opposition. I think he'd make a good one.

    Mr Abbott might have committed the sin of omission many times in cabinet by going along with unethical policies, but I get the sense that he's not as fundamentally challenged as the other frontrunners in the honesty department (as noted, he's certainly not very good at supporting false premises.)

    Full disclosure: I appealed to Mr Abbott, then the relevant Minister,
    when our Islands Trustees persisted in inserting a "population cap" policy into our Official Community Plan. He was good enough to respond with encouragement and good advice. The "population cap" was unconstitutional anyway, but with the Minister's letter in my hand the Trustees were sufficiently intimidated to delete it from our OCP. I'm indebted to him in this small way.

    But I'd have to be dead and buried with a cat before I'd vote BC Liberal.

    Good luck, George.

  • Mikemah

    1 year ago

    candidates

    I think you are wrong Will. Falcon is the clone and that's what 50 thousand cats and hockey players want.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Abbott too polarizing...

    Seriously.

    Falcon is neat, smart guy and doesn't hire bullies - Abbott does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zS8wssSIwI

    Christy Clark has charisma. Christy in 1.

  • Amanda Goodman

    1 year ago

    Why omit Abbott's tenure as Minister of MARR?

    I'm curious as to why you provided such a nice, descriptive analysis of Abbott's political career and failed to even mention his position as Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation (MARR), a post that he held from June 10, 2008- October 25, 2010. Abbott has specifically mentioned his experience as Minister of MARR in his election campaign. I would greatly appreciate if you could provide an analysis of his period there as well. Thank you.

  • Jerry Munro

    1 year ago

    Challenge Our Sensibilities...

    When do we get to the end of this election cycle again?

    I know, I know. I should know.... being a political person.

    'Cause it means now, until this bullshit period is got through, Tyee is going to be filled with endless pages of, especially, social democratic leaning and plumping material. (Now that I've said that, being the essential small "l" liberals their good hearts are, they will rush out to get "balancing" Liberal/fascist leaning lead articles.)

    Tyee. Just a small suggestion. Not me, because I'm booked :-), but could you go out and rustle up some views of this bourgeois election cycle from say, a couple serious "non-liberal/social democratic" journalistic opinion writers, from the "serious Left" and "serious Right". Something to break and challenge the simp monotony of endless, wall to wall NDPers and Liberals (what passes for in BC)?

    I mean, I would even accept a Chomskyesque "lefty", such as would be independent, but likely wind up saying, "...in the circumstances, and for the collective good of all, we should probably, with all of our reservations, hold our noses and vote for the Democrats." For the "Right", and it's just a suggestion, say somebody, again of a more "independent" demeanour as Orchard. Though I will let the wingnuts make their own choice.

    Anything but this endless, mind numbing social democratic/liberal narrative.

    Challenge all our sensibilities. Please. Tyee is becoming an intellectual and political ideas wasteland. 8-D lol

  • jim1966

    1 year ago

    Good Article

    Very revealing indeed. The one fact that I and others still remember is that Mr Abbott under Mr Campbell had to tow the party line. Although I think that Mr Abbott is what I would call a "real Liberal politician". Aside from that I still cannot vote for another 4 years of the BC Liberal party, Mr Abbott has some good ideas and is the only Liberal with any mention of any sort of poverty reduction plan, which by the way basicully copies the New Brunswick model put in place recently. Good Luck but I still think that after all is said and done we'll end up with an NDP provincial government.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Jerry Munro

    It kinda needs 10 more people like me in the comment threads to kick the tires & light the fires of liberty!

  • greengreen

    1 year ago

    Truth...not

    Was the GDP/health spending fiasco propaganda, incompetence or an out right lie? Perhaps, incompetent financial accounting. More likely a known falsity,a lie, purposely published to justify the incremental privatization of Medicare. Propaganda.
    I assume that George did not initiate this but willingly and knowingly"spread the word". Does this make him a liar, a propagandist, or just incompetent?

  • G West

    1 year ago

    Keep it up Christy Fan

    I love watching Liberals tear each other to pieces!

  • Okanagan Orchardist

    1 year ago

    I like Frank's technique...

    Frank said:
    "All that being said, Kevin Falcon better win this thing, I want to see an NDP government :)"

    As a bonafide Liberal Party member, and even though my vote isn't going to count for much, I'm going to back Falcon for the same reason. :)

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Okanagan Orchardist

    If Falcon wins I will personally thank you for saving BC. Nice technique yourself!

  • Buck Futter

    1 year ago

    I give 5:1 odds that EDITED -- PERSONAL INSULT OF COMMENTER

    won't respond to the following:

    EDITED FOR UNSUBSTANTIATED ACCUSATION AND BAITING OF COMMENTER

    While George didn't exactly step up as a member of the Lieberals, I predict that he will be the next interim Premier... I agree that he will make a great Leader of the Opposition after the next election.

    Despite Krusty the Klown's charms, her greasy and toxic past will be her ultimate demise- 3:1 she goes back to the extended version of the Lieberal PAB, aka CKNW.

    Mini-Campbell is too extreme even for BC's "Liberals" and won't get a sniff.

    Some great facts in this series!

  • Cool Hand

    1 year ago

    The Ultimate Prize

    In order to have a sense of who will win the Lib crown, firstly one needs to look at the current polling numbers/trends.

    Both ARS and Ipsos show Christy Clark far ahead of her nearest rivals in both the populace at large as well as 2009 Lib voters.

    Secondly, one needs to look at membership sign-ups where again Clark has the advantage.

    Thirdly, the Lib vote is STV and from anecdotal evidence Clark again leads same. Why is everyone ganging up on someone unless they are the front-runner?

    I suspect that most of Deyong's as well as Abbott's supporters (not campaign team) will go for Clark as a 2nd choice, which is very important in the STV voting process.

    I also suspect that most of Falcon's supporters will go for Abbott on the 2nd vote. Again, at the end of the day, it's a toss-up, bet-wise, between Abbott and Clark.

    As for winning an election, one should also look at BC's recent federal voting intentions:

    Ipsos:

    CPC: 42%
    Lib: 25%
    NDP:17%
    Green 15%

    It's obvious that the federal right-wing Conservatives as well as their "right-wing" cousins, the Libs, capture 67% of BC'ers preferences.

    The federal NDP is at 17% fighting for 4th place with the Green Party. That 17% for the federal NDP is 5% less than what the BC NDP received during the 2001 provincial election resulting in a grand total of 2 seats.

    Both Dix and Horgan have made many policy pronouncements that would make the federal NDP proud. The MSM hasn't yet focused upon same but, man, I frankly can't believe what I have heard from same.

    Do they want the provincial NDP to go back to 28% - 33% of the provincial vote akin to the 7 provincial elections during the 1950's and 1960's?

    Under that scenario, with either Dix or Horgan winning the NDP leadership, the BC NDP should have frankly stuck with Carole James.

    If either leftists Dix or Horgan wins the NDP leadership nomination (even if Falcon wins for the Libs) the Libs will still win the next election IMHO.

    If Mike Farnworth wins the NDP contest, who is actually a good guy, the next election will again be competitive. Since muds-linging seems to be the flavour of BC politics, esp. with the NDP, Casinogate and its fall-out will unfortunately still dog Mike at the end of the day.

    That's the current lay-out of BC's political landscape as I see it.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    Defending the membership

    [OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    Kuhl Hound

    I'm surprised at you! Such an elementary mistake, and a waste of a perfectly good post.

    Did you really think that "the people" - you know, real ones, that pollsters actually attempt to talk to - would be selecting the leader? Honestly! You'd be far better occupied looking for the trail of dollar bills and checking who had the biggest hole in his pocket.

    Abbott only has pocket lint - this excellent article notwithstanding, this auction for the leadership will be purchased this weekend. The rest is just a circus for the media and whatever remains of the gullible wing of the general public.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    John Greg

    Of course it doesn't. The one and only thing that counts is how willing, capable, and prepared the (presumptive) politician is to lather their lips, teeth, and gums, with the deep dark brown lipstick of the corporate suite.

    In the Metaphor Sweepstakes, you are the undisputed winner. That was absolutely repulsive, and undoubtedly at least reasonably prescient.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Luke the jokester

    "Since muds-linging seems to be the flavour of BC politics"

    I almost choked on my granola and yogurt.
    The BC Socred-Liberals are world-beaters when it comes to mud-slinging. Although a few of us try to keep up the NDP's end we can't hold a candle to what comes out of Liberal mouths. Probably because unlike them we have a hard time just making stuff up.

    As for Casino-gate, are we talking about Glen Clark?? If so, it never happened and everyone knows that. If we're talking about Dave Stupich, who cares? That would be like the NDP bringing up those insider trading charges against Bill Bennett and the Domans.

    People are far more interested in BC Rail, and why the Libs paid their operatives' 6 million dollar legal fees even though they were found guilty.

    If its Mike Farnworth for the NDP Abbott is the Lib's only chance.

    Falcon versus Dix would be way more fun to watch though.

  • John Greg

    1 year ago

    Um ...

    Quote:
    In the Metaphor Sweepstakes, you are the undisputed winner. That was absolutely repulsive, and undoubtedly at least reasonably prescient.

    Well, thanks ... I think. I'm not sure if that was a compliment or a slag. :) Oh well, it's good either way.

    And to be fair, it really was a steal from Frank Zappa -- not my own invention. Regretably.

  • rantnic

    1 year ago

    zalm nailed it

    As he said the auction takes place this weekend and I'm sure that the media sweetheart has already been chosen. We all know that the MSM will ignore her past follies and promote her if only because she is one of their own.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Buck Futter

    My name is John Bauer and I live in N Vancouver thank you. Quit your smears, bullying, et al.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Moderator

    I protest at the use of the words "KrustyKluck". It's disrespectful to one another and to Christy Clark. If I cannot even mention cheerleaders 4 Falcon, then why is this tolerated?

  • David Beers

    1 year ago

    Administrator

    Christy Fan, good point

    I've made the edit in accord with our commenting guidelines. We also ask that comments be substantive rather than seem to be baiting or trolling behaviour. Yours do veer close to that.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Thank you David

    I will keep this in mind.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    The BCLibs...

    Have made the playing field fair for all 85 ridings w/ today's amendment. I admit George Abbott has a chance now, but w/ his Rob Ford-esque topics his team has soiled his reputation.

  • lynn

    1 year ago

    Even horses are disqualified from running..........

    "I have an idea about voting, how about on every ballot we include "None of the above". People may laugh at that, but what that is, it is a vote of no confidence in your government and I'm willing to bet that in some elections, 'None of the Above' would win."
    — Jesse Ventura

  • Cool Hand

    1 year ago

    Frank

    Quote:
    If its Mike Farnworth for the NDP Abbott is the Lib's only chance.

    Nope. Mike is a great guy but as moderate centrist and former New Democrat Bob Simpson stated so eloquently to the Georgia Straight:
    ......
    "The [NDP] front-runners are absolutely, intimately associated with the [NDP governments in the] 1990s and give the Liberals all of the ammunition they need,” Simpson told the Straight in a phone interview.

    “The Liberals have been very successful at convincing the voting population that anybody associated with the 1990s should not be allowed into the premier’s office.”
    ......

    Throw in the fact that the Libs are now ahead in opinion polls and that the "crowning effect", subsequent to the leadership, will further propel the "new premier" into positive opinion poll territory (a la Vander Zalm and Glen Clark), then you will know what I mean.

    Go ask Will McMartin. His 1996 election subscription-only polling and analysis (which I also subscribed to) succinctly stated that Glen Clark was akin to "a speeding freight train that was unstoppable." That's the political dynamic that will also occur in March for the new Lib leader.

    Dems the facts of political life.

    Quote:
    Falcon versus Dix would be way more fun to watch though.

    I will give credit to Falcon in one regard and I'm actually warming up to him. He knows the economy and government finances and understands the importance of transportation infrastructure. So do I. Without that knowledge, we will not have the increasing funds to pay for health care, education, and social services.

    Dix, OTOH, is Glen Clark without the charisma. BTW, I still have my money on Dix and I'm certainly hopin' that he takes the crown.

    Again, looking at the latest Ipsos federal results in BC:

    Ipsos:

    CPC: 42% (Falcon - federal CPC)
    NDP: 17% (Dix - federal NDP)

    .... one can see that Falcon has the distinct advantage over Dix. It's a political no-brainer. ;)

  • RickW

    1 year ago

    Cool Hand

    Quote:
    and understands the importance of transportation infrastructure

    So THAT explains the massive rapid transit developements going on in the lower mainland.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Luke

    Bob's a centrist? Uh-huh. You're confused because he's neither Left nor Right so you automatically think he's a centrist, nope. What Bob supports is what's good for Bob on any given day. At least he's finally found a political home with a caucus he can actually get along with, himself.

    As for what he says about the NDP leadership, well c'mon and give your head a shake, he would say that wouldn't he? After all, he's left the NDP so why would he say anything good about them now since he'll be running against them in the next election?

    As for the Libs being ahead in opinion polls that was because of NDP actions against their leader, it has nothing to do with anything great coming out of the mouths of the Liberals. One can look at Mustel and ARS polls over the last few months and there's no doubt the NDP collapse came not because of Campbell's resignation but because of CJ being turfed.

    Which means Liberal support is like the old saying, a mile wide and an inch deep. But you want to be optimistic and look at the world through rose-coloured glasses, I can understand that.

    "we will not have the increasing funds to pay for health care, education, and social services."

    You should stop using that old canard. Use facts, not catchphrases, to support your arguments. The economy is too complex to simply suggest that transportation infrastructure is the key to paying for every public program. Its not true and repeating it won't make it so.

    As for Will McMartin, you should read what he said about Mr Falcon. His record lies somewhere between spotty and find different work.

    "Again, looking at the latest Ipsos federal results in BC"

    What that poll suggests is that the anti-Falcon vote is 58%. the federal numbers only tell us the number of people who lean to the Right, they don't tell us that those people actually like and support Kevin Falcon.

    In a debate, Dix beats Falcon without even breaking a sweat. Dix kicks Falcon's butt every single day of the campaign. Falcon has to rely on all of those federal Conservative voters to stay with him till the end and I don't think they will. They certainly won't go NDP but I think a lot of them will sit on their hands after watching Falcon's bruised campaign limp to the finish line.

    Dix may be as ideological as Falcon but he's also in much better command of the facts, a better speaker and way more intelligent.

    All that being said, Farnworth is the anti-Campbell. He's the opposite of what the people of BC have endured for this dismal decade and in a campaign would be recognized as a breath of fresh air. His appeal crosses party lines and consists of Dippers, Liberals and even some Conservatives. People like honest people. The NDP should elect him leader and when he becomes premier Dix will be there, ready and able to take the job as finance minister or whatever. He's way more intelligent than Hansen, that's for sure.

  • Jerry Munro

    1 year ago

    The Big Fat Toe In The Closet...

    "...and I'm willing to bet that in some elections, 'None of the Above' would win."
    — Jesse Ventura" quoted Lynn.

    Certainly a good starting point... in which case I would actually be forced to vote this next election. 8-D lol

    For a bunch of folks so fundamentally agreed/related on capitalism, and being "business friendly" 'n all, these Liberals and Dems sure do set up a poisonous thread between themselves here. Kind of like a sibling rivalry for the attention and affections of Papa Dearest.

    Though it is really pretty much again that rituaol dance I often speak of... with neither of them having a clear and upfront spoken set of ideas, programmes and policies they are prepared to commit to publicly. But ideologically, deep in the heart of both of them, they are commited to the same political, economic AND rigged electoral order system. From which you just know no good is going to come out of either of them or it, to break the impasse the economic order and class system is in... certainly favouring the working class majority anyway.

    X NONE OF THE ABOVE. (One openly serves the minority wealthy class interest and their economic system, and the other wants to, but can't just openly and brazenly bring itself to come out of the closet they've been in for years. They have this role to play that they've become locked into, and a lot of the "true believer" activists they use to campaign etc would just walk away from them.

    Though Carole did stick their big fat toe out a crack in the door. And we were given just a peek of what's going on in there... certainly at the upper levels of the Party.)

  • RickW

    1 year ago

  • morechatter

    1 year ago

    Trolls, polls which way to vote?

    If it is predictions we are making Clark and Dix are favorites for sure. Who will be premier will depend on what happens in the months leading up to the election in BC and how media handles it when it comes down. Fresh faces that would be a nice change. Dix is a favorite amongst the male voters of the NDP. I have heard nothing but good things about Dix and Clark leaves me wondering why she wants to be premier. Clark women is a real go getter do not under estimate her once she has some real power. In some ways I think Clark could really make some changes only who will benefit is still unclear.
    It also will depend if voters pick the MLA who tells the better story or the politician whose story they can believe.

  • morechatter

    1 year ago

    Good Comparison

    Abbott and Stelmac never thought of it until mentioned but very similar for sure.
    Abbott is iffy and is constanly looking for direction hardly someone who can give an entire province the kinda leadership that is so badly needed. Falcon knows where it goes and how it goes will just be more of the same as Brown is already sniffing out his game.

  • Jerry Munro

    1 year ago

    Coming Out...

    "...and how media handles it when it comes down." morechatter.

    As for the leadership outcomes here, I really don't give a rat's ass, but when it comes to the election for premier itself, to be fair to the NDP, we really can predict how the corporate media will handle it. (At least based on past corporate media practise.) There will be the silence of the crypt for any Liberal foibles, whilst every NDP one will be magnified a hundred fold. And every rumour spread as reality.

    While, in my view, Business, including Big Business has nothing to fear from an NDP victory, history and perceptions still do count, even for these guys. And here they are additionally big time risk averse.

    Unless.... unless the Liberals do something totally whack job that can't be hushed up and killed with silence or a whitewash.

    The NDP, even after the abysmal record of the Campbell Neocon Liberals for the masses and those things which tend to benefit them, like the social programmes... the NDP still comes in a leg down, no doubt... in terms of the absence of fair media attention they will get. You can count on it.

    Though... for sure, they've got to like the new, actually old closet, NDP "friendliness" ambitions being of recent openly spoken of and still existing within the NDP. They keep it up, given a totally discredited Neocon Liberal Alliance, dressed up as Liberals,I don't really think the corporate media could not be won over by the NDP.

    Just a little more overtly "Right" movement kiddies, and I suspect, if the Libs hang themselves, and the voters are given a chance to know of it, it's just a matter of time before you are accepted as a full part of the ruling class controlled system. They may even let you play house with them. And the proof of this is there in Glen Clark being sympatico with Jimmy P.

    It's just that right now, you are still more useful to the business ruling class machine as a bogeyman/woman.

  • RickW

    1 year ago

    Big Business has nothing to fear from an NDP victory

    Ain't that the truth though?

    But by the same token, under the NDP, BB may NOT have the free access to the treasury they currently enjoy - for that is the only way they can stay in business.

    "Too big to fail."
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1742683/

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Big business

    There's not much big business that is headquartered in BC. Our number of head offices have been in decline for years.

    As for not allowing big business to operate here, that is an issue for the Cdn government. As long as they're giving our market away for free and allowing the profits to leave Canada will be poorer.

    Just look at Britain and how UK companies can put a post office box in Luxemburg and not pay taxes, or set up an HQ in any one of a number of tax havens for the same purpose.

    According to economists that should be great for countries but as with so many things, they're wrong.

  • G West

    1 year ago

    Huh! says lukey

    "So do I" - says an anonymous poster who's used about 12 different handles subsequent to serial bannings here at Tyee.

    Surely you jest - or are you simply trying to be funny?

    Anybody who pretents to 'know' anything who hasn't been posting under his real name has a lot of nerve to claim he 'knows' anything when it's obvious he doesn't really know anything more than how to cut and paste from a lot of temporal and largely useless polls.

    Gives one a good laugh though!

  • pianosaurus rex

    1 year ago

    sock puppets are everywhere

    At one time I recall a certain poster who was allegedly writing a book on chat forums or something like this……so the above posting and its assertions are almost as humorous as the pot calling the kettle black huh alchibaides?

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