Doesn't Matter

If XL is canceled and another US route not found then it will be good for BC because it will go west instead. Plans are already in place for expanding the old pipe to Burnaby and the other route is to Kitimat.

Alternative energy is not yet viable without massive subsidies.

Checked out solar lately?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/solar-power-boom-hits-a-wall/article2227268/

These energy posts are bringing out the flakes

World Trade is better than World War.

The history of the 20th century was one of increasing aggression over resources. We can't afford another one. Get used to doing business with Asia and the world.

By the end of this century we will be selling our water too. Nine billion people are not going to watch as we waste what we have, while they die of thirst. Some of the wingnuts on these Tyee pages must be on drugs.

The decision

the tar sands are a black hole for water and spew nothing but huge amounts of CO2...stopping the pipeline south would only be topped by stopping the pipeline west...leaving the tar sands alone until the process from tar sands to processed petroleum product can be accomplished without depleting water and risking the air we breath...that is in the future...so too bad if the multi national oil cartels can't rake in so many more billions in profit...

Question

How many good union jobs would be created in B.C. by the proposed Gateway pipeline?

If that number is significant, ask yourself what Glen Clark--or Adrian Dix--would do, especially in a depressed economy, to create those jobs.

Even if he would do the "right" thing,and not create those jobs, there will be an economic and political price to pay for it.

Far more jobs could be

Far more jobs could be "created" by getting out of the NAFTA and the rest of the "free trade" rackets and leaving the WTO.

As we used to be 40-50 years ago, with local manufacturing and enterprises booming, paying decent wages, with people owning their own homes.

Our "conservatives" are always yakking about "individualism" and "personal freedoms", while selling the country, resources and jobs to fascistic "globalization" and "wealth creating foreign investment", the biggest fraud of them all, because it brings nothing to the country we don't already have.

What we now have is signs around the boarders advertising: "Canada for sale, come and get it!" " Communists most welcome to take us over"

Ed Deak.

peak oil apocalypse postponed...

so why not build refineries in northern alberta and export finished products, value added, which car loving kanadians can consume themselves in case amerikans want to invade more of the middle east to steal their oil under other peoples sands. to finance the refineries, trim back on the feds' multi billion dollar plans for new stealth fighter bombers and updated warships to assist the NATO Empire in these assaults in the name of freedom and demockracy. lapdog harper should be sent one way to washington with a leash.

Keystone XL joins many other pipes crossing Ogallala

Just to be clear - because both the Robert Redford anti-Keystone XL, and even the Trans Canada main Keystone XL homepage show ONLY the Keystone XL pipe crossing the Ogallala Aquifer. However, buried in the TransCanada online docs is a map showing a more complete network of pipes (oil, natgas, petrochemicals) crossing the region: http://www.transcanada.com/docs/Key_Projects/Ogallala_Aquifer_Map.pdf

Joe is about to blow enviromentalists off

Flathead is off to China and Japan, following in the tracks of Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver, who was there last week.
Keystone isn't dead it is just on hold as the real plan to get the Oil sands to China is already in the works.

Would it help if the pipeline were modified to carry THC?

Would the ultra-radical enviro-freaks go for it then?

Is there any difference between this and any other pipeline?

How should 300-million North American oil-junkies feed our habit?

Anyone who drives a car, takes a bus or train should have an answer to these questions.

I confess to being a gas-junkie. My Jeep sucks gas at 6 km/litre. It is terrible and I wish I could afford a Volt. Who would liek to contribute to my "Raise-$40,000-for-a-Volt" campaign? All contributions, no matter how large, will be accepted.

There's always wood gas. Very

There's always wood gas. Very popular during the war. I have seen wood gas propelled German army truck pulling 2 more, with blankets, instead of tires on the wheels.

Our Swiss master mechanic partner is planning to build some trucks with wood gas, when he gets around to it. Already has 5 or 6 old Chevy pickups for the purpose.

In any case, local production would cut oil consumption to a fraction with the existing supplies lasting for many years.

Ed Deak.

R/M old man....

And how will it be "good for BC" exactly? Are you thinking of the 10 jobs it will create?

Bobby Peru, freewilly and Fish-counter

Why do radicals in BC want the same kind of social welfare offered by Norway, but yet oppose any way to earn easy and valuable petro dollars?

Sorry, Bobby, but your blinders are still on. The radicals in BC want no part of welfare state capitalism; those supportive folks are the middle of the road sect, i.e., the left-wing of the NDP. I believe the radicals want nothing to do with capitalism and would rather there be a complete overhaul of governing institutions founded on a horizontally interactive peoples democracy.

And, freewilly says: "information and education has changed expectations and desires of folks all over the planet."

I have to wonder what you mean by 'education' since our behaviour is anything but intelligent. We are currently in another dark ages, this time blinded by the white light of propaganda, rhetoric and and incessant, meaningless distraction. There is little real education going on as far as I can see.

Fishcounter: "World trade is better than World war".

Sorry, but your ideals of world trade have only come on the back of war. Have you not noticed the crimes of the Empire state to enforce its demands for global trade? At what point do the oligopolistic practises of the plutocratic multi-nationals cease being trade and become self-serving fascism?

Trade wars turn into shooting wars

and the solar panels that they use on space satellites are far more advanced and has been held back from general use by the US military. The technology is there for solar in the worst of conditions-it has not been made public yet. Big oil is to powerful-Governments have been bought-souls sold.
That's all there is unless we change it.
RR

Trade wars turn into shooting wars

and the solar panels that they use on space satellites are far more advanced and has been held back from general use by the US military. The technology is there for solar in the worst of conditions-it has not been made public yet. Big oil is to powerful-Governments have been bought-souls sold.
That's all there is unless we change it.
RR

World trade may be better

World trade may be better than world war, but the problem is that both are controlled by the same gang of criminals, using faith and propaganda to lead people down the paths of destruction.

What we now have as "world trade" is the biggest racket in human history. The two world wars and the death camps of Stalin, Hitler and Mao took 70 years to kill 120 million people, today's global capitalism kills the same number in 4-5 years with starvation, bad waters and easily preventable illnesses, and also destroys the living standards even in so called "developed countries" to feed the greed of a few, who also hold all governments hostage.

Trade is trade, but commerce and world control by capital created from the air, used as weapons of conquest are not trade, except in the warped imagination of crooks and suckers, we have here, electing psycho maniacs to sell the country and people into slavery.

Ed Deak.

igby mac

"I have to wonder what you mean by 'education' since our behaviour is anything but intelligent."

Well I still have to work on my vocabulary, if thats what you glean. i could subtitute education with marketing.
The rest of the world expects a similar level of affluence as ourselves. They get that from the internet and television.

I was in Mexico 10 years ago and watching some of their television. It was pretty much identical to the crap we get. What was really interesting were the commercials, depiciting middle class mexicans, made up to look like us, while the majority of people are dark skinned and many with indiginous roots. Most of the products, noone could afford. All I could think was 'they cant be very happy with the way they look'. I figure its an advertising trick mess with self-esteem. If you look like a white north american you will be more successful?

As far as our behaviour, yeh its hopless.

freewilly

Thanks for reading my tongue-in-cheek comment referencing 'education'accordingly.

I've spend a fair amount of time abroad myself, and it is tragic to watch the importation of our culture of spectacle (some of Fishcounter's 'world trade' no doubt) take root and up-heave other nations. It is like stepping back in time, sometimes 100 years, sometimes 70 years, sometimes 30 years.

You can see the road they are headed down is one of greed and consumption driven by propaganda and advertising. Unwittingly they are sold the 'rich man is smart man' myth. And this problem is compounded by their belief which keeps them ignorant, as all religions do. Being Buddhists, they accept that the rich man's station in life is warranted by his prior acts of goodness. So when advised by trusted leaders and elected officials of wealth on how to get rich, they obey (as do we, similarly).

Wanting the best opportunity advertised for their children, they support the youth's exodus from the land to the urban centres to seek an education. Often the youth are weaned off of farming in order to become 'educated', and within a generation the skills are lost. Thus the door predictably opens and the corporate vultures move in, buy up the land and set up shop. Sound familiar to Canada past?

Of course if one believes Canadians are better off not having control of their land, not having the skills to be able to even feed themselves, and being at the mercy of multi-nationals -- plundering the environment toward its ruination in order to maximize profits while controlling the labour pool and monopolizing the necessities of life -- this might be something one 'freely' endorses.

why are we exporting job potential...

to the USA when they clearly don't want it... why are we sending it down to Texas when we should be processing our petroleum ourselves... 7 of 10 jobs created by the petroleum sector will be given to the USA when this resource is eventually pumped to Texas... why are we allowing this?... under NAFTA we are obligated to provide the USA with petrol... it states no where in this agreement that is has to be raw petroleum so why are we sending them our raw resource for them to process and sell internationally themselves when we should be doing this ourself?... the obviousness of it staggers me.

In my opinion the jobs numbers should be 7 of 10 jobs be reserved for Canadians for our resource.
We shouldn't be exporting raw petroleum to the USA anyways, only the refined end products and we could be selling it worldwide ourselves...
Besides, Texans can sell their own reserves... they have HUGE reserves of shale oil available now from the Eagle Ford Shale formation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Ford_Formation its all about to come on stream anytime now.

In the 21st century, sovereignty is the real issue

As the world population moves innexorably towards nine billion people, does anyone seriousy think that any country with almost unlimited natural resources will be allowed to sit on them indefinitely without interference from outside?

The world wars were all about resources. Do you really think anything has changed recently? Canada could well become the client of the USA, even more than we already are.

The delay on this pipeline is a blessing in disguise. It is an open invitation for us to do business with e.g. China.

It is to Harper's credit that he sees the opportunity. Hate the man as I do, he deserves some credit for his acumen.

Harper deserves credit??

Wow, complete delusion.

Harper has no vision for a better Canada for Canadians. Zero.

He is a fool wearing a confidence-man's jacket parading around like a bombastic cock perched upon a pile of shit.

The sooner these megalomaniacal, self-righteous, second-rate charlatans around the globe are ousted, the better.

Down the path to la la land

igbymac, my sentiments exactly, but as I once said to Gerry, it ain't going to happen here until things get much worse.

The majority of Canadians are still living in a sort of 905, suburban Disneyland, even though the cracks are starting to show.

Even then, with the help of mainstream media, many have shifted, out of fear, to a more right wing position that actually contradicts their best interests.

Must export more and more oil gas and coal, ANYWHERE, to become an energy super power. In Canada, sustainable and renewable energy is downplayed as insufficient or too expensive, and thus not supported for the most part, except for a few demos.

It wasn't so long ago that little Stevie H., while in opposition or minority govt., berated the Chinese "communist" system and didn't want them involved in the Tar Sands.

Talk about a flip flop. Chinese human rights abuses have not changed one iota since then, note Tibet, Taiwan or Fallongong among others.

But, like the spoiled kid who can't get his way from one parent, then goes to the other, despite not being comfortable with that one, this Con govt. wants to trade with a group they despise. Corporate profit trumps everything else, but few people seem to have noticed.

So on we go down a path of destruction, while the protesters and scientists are dismissed as whacko special interest groups and big fossil fuel as the norm.

Still, most people just shrug it off, for now. But then too late. That's the plan.

Once more large infrastructure investments are in place, it'll be nearly impossible to turn it around. As the 99% protests have shown, property is more highly valued than people.

The woes and crafty spin from TransCanada

"We've got to pay for continued warehousing of the pipe product and materials, for manpower -- we're paying for materials that we're not using," company spokesperson Terry Cunha told the Calgary Sun. "It could have significant impact."

Now this is the biggest bunch of bumpf I have heard coming from TransCanada (TC).

It has been reported to me that TC and other pipeline companies are placing steel "sleeves" around the circumference of sections of corroded pipe that have been in the ground for years rather than replacing the pipe.

It may be that TC has reserved its new pipe for the XL line and not for its other lines where replacing sections of the pipeline has been deferred.

Perhaps TC can use its current stockpile of pipe to replace sections of the current in-use pipelines already carrying large quantities of Tar Sands crude to the US.

TC likes to inform the interested public to measures it takes to respond to leaks in its pipelines. TC mentions online that it monitors its pipelines for pressure drops and has valves along the line to stop the flow of product "within minutes".

Oil travelling through a 1 million barrel a day pipeline travels at a speed of 2 meters per second. Significant amounts of oil will leak from the pipeline before all valves are closed and the remaining oil between the valves seeps into the earth. A spill on average in the US is 100,000 gallons and only 45% of the oil is recovered.

In Texas, since 1977, there have been 33 significant oil spills from pipelines.

Readers must take note that over 2 million barrels of oil from the tar sands is already being transported by pipeline to the US.

An issue that hasn't been discussed is why Canada finds the need to get rid of its resources as fast as it can. Is this an appropriate energy security strategy for future generations of Canadians? Or is this the agenda of the oil company and oil pipeline company CEO's and shareholders?

Why should Canada think of trading any further oil to the US or China?

Why does Canada import foreign overseas oil when it has ample resources of its own?

There is no surplus of oil. It is a finite resource and every gallon you pumped from the ground is one less barrel for the future.