Prime Minister's Office now called

Liquidation World eh!

Well said, Bill

You said it all, Bill.

And Boessenkool coming to BC "to perform public service"? Hah! What a way for Christy Clark to put it. Makes it sound like he's some sort of super-volunteer coming to save us all.

Very very scarey stuff, but what do we as the BC population do to stop it and protect our beautiful province? A Harper majority's insistence, supported by the Clark government, that this is good for Canada seems diabolical in view of the very real opposition which seems (to me) to be front and centre. Are they not even recognizing it? On the CBC News interview last night Harper seemed to brush away the serious opposition to this pipeline. How do we make him listen? Or is it really a fait accompli and we who oppose it just flies buzzing around, to be swatted when we get too annoying?

Mass murder in Chuna

Canada under Stephen Harper has turned into Environmental criminals!

_____________________________

"BEIJING, China - Beijing authorities canceled hundreds of flights and shut motorways on Monday as thick smog descended on the Chinese capital, reducing visibility at one of the world's busiest airports.
Air quality in Beijing reached "hazardous" levels on Monday, according to the US embassy, which conducts its own measurements, while the official Xinhua news agency said pollution was likely to reach "dangerous" levels.

"Coal burning is the main cause of all the grey hazy days that Beijing gets," Zhou Rong, an air pollution expert with Greenpeace China, told AFP.
"China has more than doubled its coal consumption in the last 10 years, so we are getting more soot in the air, as well as secondary pollutants like sulphur dioxide and nitrous oxide which also help cause the haze."
Beijing's nearly five million vehicles also emit a lot of the particulates that make up the capital's air pollution, she added.
Authorities in Beijing went to huge lengths to clean up the city's air ahead of the 2008 Olympics, shutting down coal-fired power stations and restricting the number of cars on the roads, but air quality in the city remains bad.
Frequent smog in October and November has given fresh impetus to a growing public debate over air quality in Beijing, whose 20 million residents are increasingly worried."

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/12/05/11/hundreds-flights-canceled-due-beijing-smog

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/world/asia/smog-closes-beijing-airport.html

http://davebuemi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/beijing-smog.bmp

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_02/pollutionAP1707_468x312.jpg

http://sciencedude.ocregister.com/files/2008/05/beijingsmog-copy.jpg

http://letustalk.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/beijing-pollution-2.jpg

Canada, Enablers of Stagnation, Part I

Canada, Enablers of Stagnation.

We had a chance to change the world but Canada chose to enable stagnation and steal future generation`s birth rite!

As a country we are enormously wealthy, most of the world`s fresh water, a diverse population that`s relatively well educated, thousands of miles of open prairies capable of growing huge quantities of food, we have world famous boreal forests, rain forests inhabited with spotted owls, spirit bears and species still undiscovered, we`re a nation blessed with pristine coastlines that are home to wild salmon, Orca, oysters and countless other delicacies of the sea, our air is still invigoratingly fresh,

As present day caretakers of this great Nation isn`t our number one duty to pass on a country as clean or cleaner than the one we found.

For after all, isn`t that all we really are, caretakers, thousands of generations of civilization and Canada is prepared to roll the dice, in a nano second of earth`s time Canada`s current caretakers are prepared to burn and exhaust every hydro carbon we have, a grand short sighted experiment with the potential to melt the world and possibly bring mankind itself to extinction.

Change must happen, it`s inevitable for hydro carbons are finite, continued expansion and growth is unsustainable, a folly of futility or stampeding buffaloes heading for the cliff, take your pick but either way the ending will be the same, will we be a country with pipelines zig-zagging every which way, Kinder Morgan proposes a double pipe to Burnaby plus a line North, Enbridge wants a Northern pipeline crossing 1200 streams and rivers and plans are for pipelines through the arctic and let`s don`t forget the XL Keystone pipeline south to Texas, here in British Columbia our temporary caretakers want 5 LNG(Liquified Natural gas) plants that will require almost as much electrical energy to operate as the energy we 4 million inhabitants use.

5 LNG plants all needing their own pipelines, 5 LNG plants selling our finite gas as fast as they can would exhaust all our natural gas in 3 decades, what kind of educated thinking society would steal every hydro carbon from future generations before they`re even born, tales of peak oil and if true paints a scenario where if the tar sands were to supply the world`s oil we would need an additional 50 pipelines.

Solid banks, modern cities, educated work-force, many world innovations and medical breakthroughs routinely come from Canada, we have a vast under used manufacturing sector that`s capable of producing the smartest products in the world, we are a civil society that`s already extremely wealthy in comparison to most of the world.....

We are country that has no reason to roll the dice with the future,

Part II

My caretaker tells the world that there will be no tar sand expansion, no destruction of groundwater, a wise caretaker tells the world that Canada is moving towards the future and will only maintain current hydro carbon extraction levels and what better way to drive innovation and change the direction of mankind then by removing the crutch of supply, we aren`t broke, we are extremely wealthy so the need for unabated exploitation of finite raw resources isn`t required and my gawd how selfish can we be.

Canada has a chance to drive change, a chance to be a leader, day after day our current caretakers tell us we are the wealthiest nation in the world and if true there is no urgency, no need to panic, no need to spend our finite resources in a nano secoond of time.

We owe it to Stephen Harper`s grandchildren to preserve and protect the water, the air, the land, we owe it to everyone`s children to safeguard the future.

Canada could have forced the world headlong into the 22nd century but unfortunately Stephen Harper, Canada`s current caretaker has chosen to sellout all future generations for the sole purpose of greed, unabated greed driven by oil companies, a caretaker that runs tar sand promotional ads that show pristine eco-systems in a sick n twisted campaign designed to distort and deny, a caretaker hell bent on muzzling scientists and voices of reason while hiding damning evidence of a rapidly deteriorating environment and the only conclusion any reasonable person can come to is..

Greed, power and mental sickness have inflicted the minds of Canada`s current caretakers and without immediate intervention the sickness will prevail to the detriment and possible extinction of mankind itself.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/2011/12/canada-enablers-of-stagnation.html

Boessenkool was put into the

Boessenkool was put into the Clark cabinet to prepare the way for the dismantling of the BCLib party and its long planned absorption by the BC Conservatives, which will take place sometime within the next year .

Harper is on his hoped way to total dictatorship and this must have been planned for a long time.

The long term plan is the absorption of Canada into a North American Union.

But there are problems coming that always destroyed dictatorships that always go one fatal step to far.

1. A global economic breakdown that has been built on fraud and the perceived power of imaginary money, used to colonize and collectivize the world. Fraud can go on only so long, before people wake up.

2. The Occupy movement, still in its infancy, without any direction, but now worldwide and will be growing and demanding the return to democracy.

3. The only efficient and sustainable economic way is local self sufficiency. Globalization will die because it is not sustainable.

Rulers and dictators always make the same mistakes, as proven in thousands of years of history. The sad part is that they always cause mass destruction on their way down.

What we need now are "leaders" who stop talking about the idiocy of "competitiveness" and have the knowledge and plans to pick up the pieces to rebuild a system based on logic and physical laws and save lives.

Ed Deak

Who is co-ordinating the anti-pipeline response?

It's great to get fired up, and you can write emails to your political representatives, provincially and federally.

But then what? I've done so in the past, and get a response that tells me that they politely disagree. I don't think politicians fear something as non-public as an email or letter.

What it takes to stop something like this is public action - things that show up on the news, that Joe and Jane voter can see, that may plant a seed of doubt. Loud, well attended, and well publicized.

We're just out of the Great Recession, but it's also the Age of Occupy. People are distrustful of corporations, and that might be enough to turn public opinion against something like this, even if there are significant economic benefits.

Where is the opposition gelling?

my pension plan

There you go again knocking Enbridge. My pension cheque relies on such investments (BC Teachers' Pension Plan). My trustees tell me that without such investments the cupboard would be bare and I'd be reduced to eating cat food. How about something positive for a change?

fabulous commentary

Another fabulous article about the tar pipeline insanity - thank you again Tyee for publishing what mainstream media is censoring! Does anyone have any idea how to get mainstream media to publish news or commentary about the Hughes's report? and how can we stop Canada from turning into a totalitarian oilgarchy under Harper?

The Ottawa Citizen...

They published a small part of the Hughes report...

Harper`s Conbots polluted the comment thread with you know what..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKVRuelvJ-s&feature=player_embedded#!

Harper hides behind inuendo

Harper threatens the very existence of Canada
Mr. Harper talks about the process to approve energy projects as taking to long and a need to shorten the process while maintaining they are thorough. Yet at the same time he guts the Ministry of Environment, firing bus loads of scientists and weakens environmental legislation.
Mr. Harper’s talk of US environmentalists taking over Canada is pure hyperbole. But there is definite proof that US companies have already taken over our oil patch, manufacturing, retail and service industries. While the Chinese and others are hot on the heels of the US to buy up what’s left of our assets for themselves.
Prime Minister Harper is so concerned about Iran’s potential nuclear threat yet when a clear and present Nuclear danger threatens Canada from Japans disaster his solution is to stop testing for radiation and hide the facts from Canadians.
I read on faceBook the other day there is a movement to impeach Mr. Harper. There seems to be little else left for True Canadians to do but resort to this unappealing possibility after all he is not just fiddling while Rome burns he is lighting the fires.

Pender Paul - My pension plan

If your pension is totally invested in Enbridge stocks you do not have pension rather a portflio of stocks. Pension plans have very strict rules on how much can go into stocks,bonds and other investments and they are diversed to make up for ups and downs in the stock and bond markets. SO QUITE WHINING ABOUT ENBRIDGE STOCK the GIVE AWAY PIPELINE IS but a small part of their empire

Ethical Oil and the Tories

The ridiculousness that is Ethical Oil is compounded by the fact that it is completely embedded in the Tory PR machine.

Guess who runs websites for both Ethical Oil and, oh, how about Joe Oliver? Hamish Marshall, Kathryn's husband and former PMO staffer. It gets worse / better, depending on how you view the world.

More information here:

http://deepclimate.org/2012/01/13/ethical-oil-political-connections-part-1-conservatives-go-newclear/

Some Ethics!!

How can it possibly be considered "ethical" to destroy hundreds of square kilometres of environment around the tar sands sites, send possible carcinogens downstream to neighbouring communities, use unbelievable amounts of freshwater from the Athabasca river in the processing, destroy wildlife, and all in favour of the dirtiest oil on the face of the planet?
What a smokescreen scam! Fortunately, I get the sense that many Canadians see this BS exactly for what it is, nothing more than the latest spin campaign from the Yanqui Big Oil boardrooms in Cowtown.

New oil policy needed

Let those (Far) Eastern bastards freeze in the dark.

Free the gas - nuke the pipe

Since Canada already imports more than half its oil it is a no brainer that we need to ship the tar back east.

Switching pipeline funding to a heavy oil upgrader, repurposing the canada mainline gas pipe to oil, replacing the gas with as few as 15 new clean and green zero environmental footprint, zero pollution nuke plants, would result in investment paybacks of 3 years at a 40% rate of return by redirecting domestic gas to lucrative LNG exports

At the same time most international opposition to Tar sands crude would disappear if Alberta nuked the tar sands replacing gas generated steam with nuclear steam, saving big bucks and eliminating production GHG's at the same time.

Any excess clean and green nuclear power would be delivered to the dunces at BCHydro at a third the price it's paying for dirty carbon intense run of the river power The power would be used to run those LNG plants at Rupert, used to ship out all the excess gas generating as much as $30B annually in LNG sales far more than we get from selling the Oil. The cost of LNG plants/pipeline is estimated at $30B.

Thousands of Canadian lives would be saved as the filthy deadly fine particulate, GHG, NOX and radioactive radon gas spewing gas is replaced with clean and green nuclear electricity not that Fascists in the Harper government give a rats ass.

Alberta and BC can start the process by getting Canada's energy ministers together and commit to a purchase of new Westinghouse AP1000 nukes with 8 nukes required to green up the Tar Sands, and 15 to replace coal, and another 17 to replace mostly Eastern gas, at a rough cost of $80B followed by orders for 100 more as factory production gets in full swing paid for by gas substitution and sales worth $40B annual.

Unfortunately Your Dear Supreme Fascist Leader for Life - St Stephen the Pious whose religious vision's seeing Canadians as mindless hewers of wood and diggers of oily dirt and nukes the devil's fire, line up well with Big Oil's business interests. So having already eliminated Canada's nuke industry, new refineries and nukes are out.

So as a more modest alternative how about we'll let Alberta ship their oil through British Columbia, the day Quebec lets Newfoundland ship their electricity through Quebec.

Kathryn Marshall has a great future in politics, to be sure

With so much integrity and so many friends, how can she fail? I can see her as Minister of Environment. She would do better than Rona Ambrose, but so would my dog.

I second DavidG

It can be frustrating looking at initiatives and always being presented with either the option to give money or sign a letter, and nothing else.

If I may elaborate on DavidG's request, can anyone here post a list of links to various groups opposed to the pipeline, with special mention for those that have options for accessible, concrete, real-world action beyond giving money or signing another letter?

I'll start, with what limited knowledge I have thus far, having just freed up time for this.

I know that Dogwood Initiative got together many of the people testifying at the hearings in Kitimat. Here's one of their Get Involved links:
http://dogwoodinitiative.org/getinvolved

And here's another for Dogwood, more specific to no tanker traffic, which has a link to get their organizing kit (under "find allies"), though I haven't tried it out yet:
http://dogwoodinitiative.org/no-tankers/do-more

If they aren't working in my area, I would email them and ask them who is.

Initiatives are only successful if they are accessible, as many learned in Fight HST. I think that a globally recognized volunteer intake and asignment portal organizing response geographically would vastly multiply efforts for all groups involved, providing them with volunteers to contact and involve.

Until that portal is available, a solid, copy-and-pastable link list with brief descriptions of each link and actions available therein would be a good start. Anyone have one of those yet? Make one, post it!

Listen to the Enbridge hearings live

Go to this site, the link to Enbridge`s hearings radio is there.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/2012/01/enbridge-hearings-into-northern.html

Good Day

Well done Bill!

The whole pro-Enbridge lobby is represented by Ethical Oil spokesperson Kathryn Marshall. After watching her evade questions about who funded her organization, when asked almost a dozen times, I laughed at how anyone could be such an airhead. I can clearly see that they don't respect the intelligence of any of the public who will have to bear the consequences of the Enbridge grab for more obscene profits. When they start resorting to half-truths and outright lies they then have to rely on Harper to overrule democracy.

Good article Bill!

Randy Halyk

Randy Halyk: "Prime Minister Harper is so concerned about Iran’s potential nuclear threat".

Now that's funny. And I presume you know that is just rhetoric :)

Harper is 'in for a penny, in for a pound' with the Empire. And the Empire is losing its grasp on the Middle East so it resorts to desperate threats, and possibly more desperate acts.

The US greenback is crumbling before our eyes, and the loss of its petro-dollar status and all that that entails has the inenpt President panicked.

And Harper, tied at the hip to the US dollar, and without a single independent thought in his head, in all his wisdom, is ensuring he fcuks Canada as best he can.

Impeach him? Jail him. We have ample grounds -- treason, war crimes, torture, breach of trust. No doubt he feels safe with the legal industry and security state in his pocket.

First Nations are dealing with the pipeline response right now..

and doing a marvelous job of it. Several groups have made it known that we have their backs and all they need to do is ask if they need our help. There is still over a year to go with the Joint Review Panel. May as well buckle down and get comfortable. It's going to be a long, hard fight.

Ethical Oil?

Read this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/matt-price/ethical-oil-pipeline_b_1209149.html?ref=canada

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwKXfc_a4Ag&feature=related&mid=57

Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se5azrCfzlk

Nothing more to say.

Cut out the Middle Man

Let the First Nations speak directly with the Chinese. They share an ancestry and they may well understand that it's really good to crank up the F150 and go fishing and hunting in the wilds for weeks. The Chinese have gotta like salmon, they might like moose too. Never underestimate the value of face-to-face negotiating.

Maybe the Chinese are just too busy in their rat-race and haven't had the chance to appreciate the wilderness.

Wade Davis from Victoria was on the CBC last week. He said he spends summers up there and last year he only saw 8 other people than his family all summer. He wants to keep his privacy.

Listen to the hearings live

Here are 2 links for listening to the Enbridge hearings live, via Webcast

http://www.meetview.com/neb/player/?player_id=71

http://gatewaypanel.review-examen.gc.ca/clf-nsi/prtcptngprcss/hrng-eng.html

Harper will fall over this project, rumour has it many Con MPs are ready to cross the floor over this travestry...Online petitions going wild at the Dogwood initiative.

20,000 in 2 days

The choir is ready, but not yet the congregation

Nearly everyone who has commented above is on board, although I'm still not convinced about Seth's nuclear alternative - it may be worth further investigation, especially the thorium option, but not implementation in the same rush to put these on line like the fossil fuel corps. are trying to do with their product.

Our First Nations have always understood the need to think long term, generational sustainability, rather than turbo development for quick profits.

That and an ignorant disrespect for differing beliefs and ideas is at the root of many of the conflicts between Big Fossil Fuel industry and First Nations.

Good to look at complex notions and really mull them over without a prior agenda.

Pender Paul, perhaps you could ask the pension fund trustees you spoke to about shifting that relatively small piece of their portfolio out of Enbridge and such, to something like Warren Buffet's recent multi-billion investment in two solar technology projects, aside from his wind installations, or some other similar such projects.

Real ethical funds (unlike certain pseudo ethical funds) can earn a reasonable profit without investing in banks, munitions, fossil fuel, tobacco or such.

Perhaps the fund managers could use a text like "The Ecology of Commerce" that convinced CEO Anderson, of commercial flooring giant, Interface Inc., to reexamine and revamp their investments and processes to make them more eco-friendly and truly sustainable.

Fund managers, like so many others, need to upgrade their lifelong learning to items outside of their job demands.

For the most part, we are "preaching to the converted" here.

How do we get the importance of the message to the 905 crowd or its Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, Halifax and such equivalents, especially as mainstream media presents the Harper govt. propaganda to try to dismiss opposing views as foreign or ignorant "radicals".

The G20 protests and security reactions had only a minimal effect because it had zero impact on those GT suburbs.

How to increase awareness of the issues without creating hostility is the big question. Greenpeace tactics won't help much, except to bring media attention to the action, rather than the reasons.

Fortunately, this is also the problem of the Harper government, as Joe's inflamatory statement galvanized a growing opposition. Stevie himself is getting mired in this one as he tries to push the Tar goo agenda.

Perhaps this is the biggest issue for Canada since refusing to get fully involved in the 2nd. Iraq war. But this is here, not overseas, and it is a type of war, albeit without F35s.

Jobs

I am not sure there would be many construction jobs or any jobs for BC as Endbridge has it own trained crews to build pipelines. THey will have their own managers and support workers once built. Also, lets not forget there are more than 80,000 US workers in Alberta Tar Sands! I really wonder what is in this deal for Canada. I mean for you and I and not for $tephen Harper and his congregation.

Hecate Strait, 4th most dangerous body of water in the world

From an article in the Globe and Mail

"The marine environment at the surface can be equally brutal. Some tankers would traverse Hecate Strait, which Environment Canada ranks as the fourth most dangerous body of water in the world. Waves in South Hecate Strait have reached 26 metres – the height of a seven-storey building.

“The storms here are so continual and so severe that it’s a recipe for disaster,” said Murray Minchin, a Canada Post delivery worker in Kitimat who is a kayaker and landscape photographer."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-politics/bc-coast-is-hostile-country-for-oil-pipeline-panel-told/article2299637/

Poor Journaism

Don't blame the Ethical Oil lobbyists, it's poor journalism by Evan Solomon and CBC. They shouldn't bring a propagandist on as if she was a legitimate source of information or opinion. You wouldn't get mad at a 6-year old kid for making unfounded allegations against environmental groups, because he/she wouldn't be on CBC at all! Don't interview screwball lobbyists - Canadian journalism is to blame.

ministry of truth everywhere!!

-sad to see Tyee writers under the sway of the NWO ministry of truth -

"....while the Arab Spring overthrows brutal oil dictators like Muammar Gaddafi"

- as those of us still thinking for ourselves understand, 'arab spring' had little to do with 'overthrowing' Gaddaffi, it was entirely a NATO operation. Also, there is considerable disagreement in the non-MofT word about how 'brutal' he was - there is a considerable body of opinion he was one of the best African leaders, and had done many very good things for his country over the years. He was demonized in the western media for refusing to kiss America's ass, as others such as Castro and Chavez are still demonized.

This is the kind of thing 'full spectrum propaganda' does - take an essentially unrelated story, like this pipeline one, and throw around 'drive-by indoctrination reinforcers' such as calling Gaddaffi a 'brutal dictator' - thus encouraging the idea it is some kind of unchallengeable, received wisdom. And thus the proles accept whatever new 'history' the Ministry of Truth devises for them.

tar sands oil by any other name...

will stink up and pollute the entire length and breadth of the line...not to mention the coast when the inevitable leak happens...it must be stopped it must be stopped...

Suzuki's endorsement

With Clark's clear support of the pipeline why hasn't the DSF formally disavowed their support of the BC Liberals?

What is it going to take???

Ms TarBarbie...LOL

As I watched that 'interview', I couldn't help but laugh out loud around the 4th or 5th time TarBarbie said 'we're just a small grass-roots....'

All that was needed was for her pull-string to be visible, with herr harpo continually pulling it... and have some nasty bitumen dripping off of her!

It was like a black comedy..... and no, of course she should never have been on the CBC; however, they are really in a tough position - knowing how vindictive harpo is and how much he wants rid of them, I think they have little choice in some programming, this being a prime example.

Harper's CBC interview yesterday...

In it, Harper was once again promoting the Northern pipeline and with it the shipping of tar sands oil.
Michael Parenti's book, THE FACE OF IMPERIALISM, (which I heartily recommend), concludes with this comment: "Reality is a problem for the ruling class. Reality has to be constantly finessed and misrepresented because reality is radical. There is a limit to how many lies people will swallow. And, the empire is only as secure as the lies it can sell."
I think this is what we need always to remember whenever we hear the propaganda (lies) regurgitated over and over again in attempt by our rulers to convince us that they know best. I think more and more people are beginning to understand that we don't live in a democratic country, that everything is controlled by corporations, and even if you own a small part of the corporation in the way of stocks and bonds, you don't mean bugger all to the CEO's and their minions that run it.

Ethical Oil

Its Funny I don't see any protest at the St Lawerance Seaway as tankers bring conflict oil into Canada or any other port in the world that brings conflict oil or any protest in Saudi either. Where is the outrage for all the oil tankers around the world?

Great quote from Parenti, Ok

Great quote from Parenti, Ok O. and ain't it the truth? We live our lives swimming in a sea of elite-generated bullshit. No wonder they've got us running around like rats.

In a sane world a project like this one would be unthinkable. Let's hope it becomes an indictment of his leadership so we can be rid of this psychopath.

tric25

I know a lot of the terrain they want to take this pipeline through and it is not the easiest place to build a project of this size, it will require a specialized work force and Enbridge has their own people from Alberta.

Not only are they pumping bitumen west but they are bringing in condensate (think varsol) through some of the most treacherous waters on the planet if you are at all concerned about this Coast and the other industries that would be wiped out by a spill then that alone would be cause for concern. 100 full time jobs and the loss of thousands of local jobs, makes me wonder if money is going into those offshore accounts for our christian leader and his flock!

We are selling our kids future to a foreign state that is not that friendly so they can profit from refining our oil and using it to compete with our companies. How does that make sense to anyone who isn't a mouthpiece for hire in my opinion, people like levant and his cronies at ethical oil braying on behalf of the poor foreign oil companies whose execs are making more then the average Canadian by what the fourth of January. Greed works for them!

If we would refine our own oil and supply Eastern Canada we wouldn't need to bring tankers filled with Saudi Oil into the St Lawrence Seaway.

I am sick and tired of Albertans dictating to me and I am now willing to start supporting the people opposed to this pipeline with cash. I am also sick of the prissy clarks bringing in neo-cons from Alberta to further screw us over, well she has pissed this person off and I intend to help get rid of her and her Albertans!

"Don't interview screwball lobbyists!"

I couldn't agree more. That means Harper, Oliver and Clark as well as tar baby.

@siamdave

Thank you for casting a little light in the darkness here. Truth is Qaddafi was always misrepresented by the 'Western' media. Libya was the most progressive country in Africa: Best health care, best education, less than 5% illiteracy, had its own bank (one of the real reasons it was invaded), people could afford their own houses, lots of people in the slums of London and other western cities would have moved there in a heartbeat. Dig a little deeper and discover that Libya had nothing to do with the Lockerbie bombing.
Libya was invaded because it was a largely democratic and largely socialist country. Same reason the US invaded or otherwise destroyed many countries in Latin America. I would never support a Canadian government which went over there and bombed to smithereens countless innocent children and families. And left DU dust all over the place for countless generations to come. War Crime, plain and simple.
Way to go Dave, nice that some Canadians know the truth. Ironic that we're talking pipelines and that the people living downstream suffer higher rates of cancer and dying a la Ecuador/Chevron/Texaco Funny how in the early stages of the conflict literally millions of people showed up at pro Qaddafi rallies. Before they were bombed into accepting foreign banks and foreign rule. Here is a link which sheds a little truth about Libya:
http://mathaba.net/

Loved your line about... 'take an essentially unrelated story, like this pipeline one, and throw around 'drive-by indoctrination reinforcers', it was a wake up call for me.

Time to move out of Fantasyland

Yes, it's all very nice to talk about stopping the flow of oil, not building pipelines and living in an environmental nirvana. Oh, and don't forget what a nasty man Stephen Harper is, and all those other neocons for that matter. Frankly, there's more red herrings here than in a loaded fishing boat.

So what's it going to take to have all you greenies start dealing in the real world and get realistic about the foreseeable future? The fact is, the world depends on oil and an oil-based economy for people to live their lives. That's not going to change overnight and probably not for many years.

Canada is the biggest exporter of oil to the United States (2.3 million barrels per day). The next biggest exporters to the U.S., in order, are Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela, Nigeria, Colombia and Iraq. Those who would shut down the oil sands are essentially saying that the United States should get even more oil from these very dubious sources. Every one of the countries named above, except for Canada, have huge human rights and/or corruption problems. Canadian oil, on the other hand, puts food on the table of thousands of people through jobs. If we're going to be using lots of oil for the foreseeable future, I'd rather it come from an ethical source. For that reason, I think Ethical Oil serves a useful purpose.

Life must be very simple for people who can just reduce everything to right-wing (bad) versus left wing (good).

x4estworker

"Oh, and don't forget what a nasty man Stephen Harper is..." We won't forget that he kept sending soldiers to Afghanistan where we had no business. We won't forget that he sent Canadian forces to Libya to overthrow a government which was favoured by the majority. We won't forget that he's pushing the dirtiest oil on planet and plans to ram it through our best pristine coastline, we won't forget that he plans to spend billions on new jails to house all the victims of his mandatory minimum scheme which has already been abandoned in most of the states as unrealistic and unworkable and inhumane.

"So what's it going to take to have all you greenies start dealing in the real world..." Your world is not the real world. There is only one environment on the north coast route of those 2 million barrel capacity tankers. With 300 of them a year passing through some of the most dangerous waters in the world it really is a question of when. Never mind the cleanup: It can't be done and the guilty companies will hire lawyers instead because that is what has worked for them in the past. Twenty years down the road we might get a pittance of the actual damage (as happened in the Exxon Valdez spill) but it will be too little too late. Just say no.

"Those who would shut down the oil sands are essentially saying that the United States should get even more oil from these very dubious sources..." The whole ethical oil argument is specious. The human rights abuses are often caused by the western oil companies ignoring the civil rights of the inhabitants - Look at Nigeria, Iraq, Columbia and the massive death toll in Ecuador caused by Chevron/texaco. http://chevrontoxico.com/ Brought to them by the same company which is a major player in the Tar Sands.
Of the countries you name as having human rights issues all except Venezuela have those issues in one degree or another by being directly influenced by the US and international oil companies. Venezuela, on the other hand has had massive increases in health care and education, and poverty there has been reduced by 50% since the Chavistas took power in a free and fair election. http://theintelhub.com/2012/01/20/beating-up-on-chavez/ America would love to invade because they know what a poor example America is becoming by comparison. They also know that the vast majority of the people there love their government. Can you say the same about Canada? Or BC?

Ethical oil is a specious argument

Many of the companies now operating in Fort McMurray are the same companies which have abused native rights the world over.
You can't get in bed with the devil's whore and then complain that she is sleeping with people you don't approve of.

aDriftwood - I rest my case

A government favored by the majority in Libya? You're joking, right? Qaddafi was a brutal dictator who played the world for years with his cynical little games. He had no problem blowing civilian airliners out of the sky. And I guess we should have just left the Taliban alone in Afghanistan to train even more terrorists to attack the West? That is some naïve thinking.

So do you honestly think that any country in the world is just going to stop using oil tomorrow? It just isn't going to happen, and we need to find ways to minimize the impacts of that ongoing oil use. Yes, eventually we will stop using oil but not for at least decades. We need to plan and implement what to do in the meantime.

The whole ethical oil argument is a completely reasonable argument. The Canadian oil industry is majority owned by Canadian companies. Total foreign control is 35.3% of assets, 51% of operating revenues and 41% of operating profits. Even foreign oil companies provide thousands of jobs in Canada that contribute in other ways to the Canadian economy. Foreign environmental groups, who have no business putting money into Canadian environmental campaigns, contribute nothing to the Canadian economy and really nothing to the ongoing environmental debate. In other words, foreign environmental groups serve no useful purpose in this country.

If Canadian environmental groups have such a good case for what they are arguing for, they should have enough money coming in from Canadian sources to carry out their campaigns. Obviously, they are going to foreigners to get their money because they don't have significant support within Canada. The absolute lack of support for the Green Party in Canada speaks volumes.