Funny how people cheer when

Funny how people cheer when Egyptians were protesting etc yet when done here people scoff (especially the greedy selfish war babies that had it all and after bankrupting the country do not want to pay or think generations after them should have the same.. the war baby aka baby boomer generation will go down in history in a very poor light).. Pretty pathetic. We are truly a nation of sheep. The Tyee should do an article on why people are sheep, what made them sheep and what can be done... Personally I think it is too late.

I would ask Dobbin to clarify

I would ask Dobbin to clarify a few points.

"My generation of activists keeps insisting that government -- the state -- is the only possible counterpoint to global corporate power and we just have to take it back. But young people have had such a viscerally negative experience of the hegemony of corporate rule and state complicity -- constantly legitimized by a corrupt and monolithic media – that they aren't buying it. The notion that we can somehow go back to the golden age is delusional and they know it. This is perhaps the most important lesson they are teaching us."

Dobbin's statement that "The notion that we can somehow go back to the golden age is delusional and they know it" seems to suggest that he believes government is beyond reform and the people will never be able to hold government to account like in "the golden age" when the state wasn't bought and paid for by oligarchs and plutocrats.

If that is the case and government is forever ruled out as an effective counterpoint to corporate rule how does he foresee the power of the 1% being reined in? Taking the state out of the equation leaves a pretty big void to be filled.

"Occupiers are not necessarily asking that we join them in their camps but in their spirit of resistance and cultural rebellion, and in the task of imagining a better world -- realizing that we have been sleep-walking towards the edge of the cliff. They are telling us all to wake up before it's too late."

Okay, so we're awake and realise "we've been sleep-walking towards the edge of the cliff". While we're awake and busy fuming about how we're being screwed the march towards total corporatocracy continues.

Pointing out problems is easy - coming up with viable solutions to these problems takes a bit more effort.

tents

tenting worked in Clayoquot but it just doesn't come off well in the cities
I support Occupy but not tenting.
Keep the food/medic tents, maintain the GAs but, tenting just becomes camping and makes people there vulnerable to attacks and other not so good energy and the public generally frowns upon it.
It was ok for a few days, but should have quit the game before the problems arose.

Not uncomfortable enough

Working class Canadians are not uncomfortable enough to rebel against the current system. People are focussed on getting a bigger SUV, moving from a condo to a single family dwelling, taking a Mexican vacation, maybe buying a summer cottage. Until these dreams become impossible for the majority, you will not seem them joining the protesters.

I'd like to see the occupy

I'd like to see the occupy movement, and everyone actually, just start asking the simple question, where does money come from? We need to see this question on posters and protest signs and we need to ask it of every economist and pundit and politician on every call-in show.

There is hope out there. Joe Schlesinger's latest column is typical superficial "analysis" and I found three comments that challenge him and point out the money scam. So it looks like more and more of us are becoming aware of it. Should be, there's no shortage of online resources exposing it.

Enough of the tents

I don't get why organizers, who shouldn't be as dumb as the mad a hell but haven't learned to read types that haunt the Occupy and Tea Party movements, don't just organize all these protesters to buy Fascist party memberships on mass. Take away the current Fascist movement in Canada's main vehicle the former PROGRESSIVE Conservation Party away from it, and unseat the odious Harper.. Do under Harper and his Fascist horde what he did to Joe Clark and the relatively benign Progressive Conservative Party.

Without mass membership buy by environmentalists in our recent BCLiberal convention, the province would still be under the fascist yoke of Gordo's premier designate, Falcon. When compared to Falcon, Christy Clark, could be called a communist.

Similarly the recent success of progressives in Alberta in removing the fascist's there, returning the Progressive Conservative party back to its Progressive roots.

As useful as the occupy movement it is, it needs to focus on getting its members organized into the existing party system as basis for change, and as a vehicle for rebuilding from the ground up.

Then force the 1%'ers to disgorge giving them manual labor jobs working in the fields.

power vs influence...

The power to influence has always been the greatest power in the world, think about it. Entrenched 'power', whether in governments or corporations, is always the power of the current cultural paradigm, which is why it is difficult to change. Difficult, but not unduly so: look to the local food movement for an example of dismantling decades of corporate power over food.

Every citizen has the power to make or break the corporations: they need simply not buy. In larger and larger numbers they are doing so; some as a conscious choice, and others because the money is no longer in their pockets. Either way, the current accepted cultural paradigm cannot continue, and will not...for the simple reason that the majority of people do not get up and face the day with joy and purpose.

This does not neccesarily mean that people are unhappy: just that they have come to see that they are in servitude to an idea (ideas) who time has come and gone.

Precisely

"Working class Canadians are not uncomfortable enough to rebel against the current system."

Many years of outright oppression, overt, systemic corruption and poverty spurred citizens in the eastern bloc and northern Africa to act. We have been fed a splendid diet of kool-aid and cake, keeping us on our couches.

We are not much different from any other society (apart from the massive over-consumption) so we too will probably wait for the pain levels to rise before we rise up.

great article!

great article!

What George Carlin said

"I sort of gave up on this whole human adventure a long time ago. Divorced myself from it emotionally. I think the human race has squandered its gift, and I think this country has squandered its promise. I think people in America sold out very cheaply, for sneakers and cheeseburgers. And I don't think it's fixable."

And You Did It To Yourselves....

"Their challenge to each of us is not to live in tents, but to resist, remake any way we can." Murray.

Well, Murray certainly gets it better and to greater depth than does say... Tieleman, for example. Who can't get beyond a, in my view, "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition" view of this Occupy phenomena.

The point is, capitalism, it's entire economic model, State and thoroughly bourgeois democratic structure is beyond reform, and it is going to take one hell of an ongoing struggle, centred on the streets and in the workplaces, to change it. Right now, it has emerged on the streets. Soon, as the economic crisis deepens and the repression being now formulated and put in place by the Conservative/fascist State here, as across capitalism, comes full to bear, it will be extended into the workplace enterprises of corporate capitalism. When this occurs, "the system" will begin to be struck deep into its very heart/wallet. That's when it will get really serious, and likely really ugly, for a time... in my view.

For in the end, while "the street" can apply and maintain the political pressure, and begin the process of encircling and fencing in the State system, and begin the process of creating a "direct democratic" alternative to the ruling class State, it only really begins to be transformed into something entirely different when ruling class power is rooted out and shut out of the economy and its major enterprises.

My advise, unwanted as it may be, to the ruling system, is be very afraid. It is you yourselves that have launched this moment, but it is going to be finished by those who were to have been your victims, to have borne the blows of your greed driven economic manipulations and corruption. The usurpers are already in the process of being usurped themselves. It's just not obvious to you yet. :-)

no "money" no "voice"

Governments are lobbied by big business to push their own agenda and the press is there to dum down the public to get their own way.
In order for our country to succeed and prosper, the democratic process requires a well-informed electorate and it is anything but.
How better to express homelessness than with a tent? And for those who are at home snuggled in their beds dreaming of a long walk in the park on a cold, dark, and damp winter day may be put off by the homelessness but no where near the plight of those forced to live on their feet.

'consumer' choice

Articles and posts like these are just like my thoughts- all sorts of problems identified, lots of anger, and no real answers. It's kind of comforting to see so many like-minded people as us, but frustrating that none of us who see these significant social & global problems has any cure. Starting small and personally is good.

VivianLea Doubt beat me to the punch- stop buying!!

I sure hope that if people cease to feed the corporations, the bad media, etc., they will wither up and die. I don't think it'll happen, because too many people value the bullshit that our '1%' dishes out to the public. People enjoy their bluerays, their mobile phones, their 'bling,' their sickening polluting, consuming vehicles- as a cynic I'm convinced a lot more for status than functionality, otherwise car companies would be perfecting and cranking out electric wheels.

I'm sure it feels like not making an impact, but it's all one can do as an individual- stop buying the things that you disagree with. Cut your cable, buy from farm markets, outfit your home and life with products build by craftsfolk.

A big problem with what I preach, and I'm victim to it as well, is that resentment builds up so fast when considering that you, as a likely responsible, minimal consumer, has to make sacrifices (either having to spend more money on expensive artisan products or just don't acquire any toys, entertainment or comforts at all), and you know the majority of the so-called '99%' that you are apparently part of is still lapping up the frivolous, decadent products and services and the '1%' is still getting richer and richer for it.

Tough to reconcile one's own place in both efficacious social change and enjoying a comfortable life that includes some enjoyable, if not necessary for survival, distractions as a reward for being a decent, hard working person.

It's a start, though. Especially as we are inundated with Christmas ads at this time, keep your will strong and DON'T BUY.

Is that Sharbat Gula holding the poster?

Now if it were, I would support her, but it isn't, is it? Nobody in BC can really complain about their lot in life compared to the people of the Third World. Some of those poor people live in tents their whole lives; they are not doing it as a college art project.

The problem I have with the Occupy movement is that it is just not possible to have sex in a tent without everyone else knowing about it. You can pretend everyone else is asleep but you know it isn't true. Otherwise I would be with them, in the tent, on the sidewalk.

Otherwise, the Occupy people have made their point; we need a reality check on our financial markets and we need to go back to government by the people for the people and of the people, instead of being ruled by a computerised stock-trading program.

Solidarity

Just because Canadians aren't in the park freezing their asses doesn't mean they don't want change as BC voters take to the polls and vote Robertson in to help solve the homeless problem on Vancouver streets. I had the opportunity to talk to others who voted Robertson in and the first thing out of their mouths was how media was full of dirty tricks. They felt media was making much to do about a few chickens and bike lanes and its message was filled with biases was corrupt.

If only the 99% could agree to end the corruption

Thanks for the interesting analysis. I was part of the 60s movement when I was at Berkeley, but like many others I put my vision into reality when I moved to Canada to avoid the draft and join the organic country life. We opposed the Vietnam War and segregation, along with the then corrupt system. But what happened? How many of us sold out? Nothing much changed other than cultural norms and now thanks to greed and corruption, the U.S. is becoming a third world, police state and life is not much better here or anywhere else. When the environmental collapse joins with the economic collapse, there will be no way out.

Here is a good summary from Bill Maher about the OCCUPY movement:

"So they want to know what Occupy is about?
Is it socialism? No.
Is it communism? Not that either.
It's about corruption.
We aren't against wealth like the naysayers say.
We're against wealth through corruption.
We aren't against government, we're against the corruption of our government.
We aren't against capitalism, we are against corrupt capitalism that tears down society.
What ever the problem, it probably started with corruption.
If you agree, re-post and use the word corruption in your conversations.
It's the root of the problem and it's darn hard to argue with."

But what now? How can the Occupy anger result in change, especially when the future is only looking worse under Harper? If only the Occupy movement could result in a re-alignment of the political spectrum, so that instead of liberals versus conservatives it becomes the one percent versus the rest of us.

solutions? someone mentioned solutions?

Lots of excellent comments here that reveal many understand and have a vision of what the future should look like…..but doesn’t at the moment.

These statements in para 13;

“They kept doing what they had always done even though, within a few years into the new century, it was obvious that it wasn't working. The notion of speaking truth to power sounds courageous and bold. The problem is that power doesn't care and isn't listening.”

Is this not the quintessential summary overview of the entire history of humans on this planet?

One only has to read some of history to see the identical mistakes play out over and over again.

Some solutions to start with;

Move your money from the bank to another place. Ditch the cards because one million flyer points will get you a free flight from Richmond to Abbottsford. Stop spending money on frivolities and begin to barter as many services and goods as you can. I know it is not possible with everything but a little at a time will begin to show…..Put up a close line and make a veggie garden. Just these two have saved almost 3-4k in one year here….really, and the food is damn healthy food.

Buy direct. Go to the fish dock and buy from the fishermen. Go to the farmers and buy from them. lots of them sell direct.

Think practically; if you can’t purchase it with money you have already in your hand then you don’t need the item. Pretty good book to read by Barry Broadfoot titled Ten Lost Years.

Listen to the Occupiers

I thought this was quite a moving call to all of us to act and think in solidarity with the Occupiers. However, one of the mistakes of the Sixties student movement was to push the line that there was a "generation gap" and that anyone over 30 was a Neanderthal. It's true that the youth movement was exciting and that young people led the fight against war, but if you look at other movements, it was an inter-generational struggle for civil rights (which didn't get the velvet glove of the state, by the way), for the right to union representation, and so on. I think we have to point to the real gaps that exist in society, and I'm not sure that age is one of them.

keep it up.

After reading last weeks issue of The Tyee, including the articles on the drugs at Occupy, and the article about the girl who died there of the drug overdose, I wanted to write something to the editor. If The Tyee isn't writing articles like this one, where the Occupy movement is taken seriously, who is going to write them? Canwest? Keep it up, Tyee, your paper can be a spokesman for change.

Dobbin - Remake or Revolt

I see the OWS and general worldwide dissatisfaction with the political and economic scene, as similar to the black rebellion in the South although it hasn't reached the same solidarity and single minded argument yet.
At least they had a sympathetic government and white support. We are simply the havenots against the (haves plus authority.)
Our arguments must be centred on the immoral concentration of power through access to money and the return of money power to people's representatives.
We need charismatic and articulate speakers like Martin Luther King to rally protest groups in the millions in one place on one theme.
Without such leverage the protests, currently labelled by the media as tent cities of losers, will be taken off the radar until we reach the next and more desperate uprising which may not be peaceful.

Not only was he a born protestor...

...but he was conceived at Occupy Vancouver.

When you look at the world as a probability function, with a soupcon of Organisational Behaviour thrown in for flavour, you can predict, a priori, the emergence of income tax and rice pudding.

Douglas Adams got it right in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". The Vogons will always be in charge and the interstellar expressway will always be built, even if the Improbability Drive is, de facto, working.

We are doomed to live in a world that makes no sense at all to the average person and the best we can do is to get out at the end.
The Occupy people are the offspring of the 1960's Peace Marchers, without the focus of the draft cards and the Vietnam War.

There are those who own homes, and those who don't. I doubt they will ever see eye to eye on property ownership, shopping malls or the benefits of union membership.

The only glimmer of hope I see is that he human race is not all that important, and the way we sort ourselves out is important only to us.

By the way, the girl who died at the Occupy Vancouver site was Ashlie Gough and she had a lot more going for her than Sharbat Gula. She died of a drug overdose of her own volition, a victim of her own willful behaviour, not from violence at the hand of a friend or stranger. It was just plain sad, like the fate of the protest itself.

Corruption

Bill Maher is right about “corruption” lying at the root of the problem. But Maher’s view seems to be confined to moral and economic reasons.

There’s no doubt that fraud, bribery, embezelment, influence peddaling and patronage are systemic in political and corporate worlds. And that may be what the Occupations are all about, but it doesn’t end or start there.

Corruption or corruptive forces (in the broadest sense) are found at all levels of society. Corruption that wants to deceive, mislead and defraud gets it first foot in the door at home and from there it finds continual reinforcement in social interaction, the educational system and the work environment.

Our thinking becomes corrupted because we are unaware that corruption is taking place; we think and behave the way we are trained. To step outside socially accepted norms creates conflict. Deviance is viewed as unacceptable and every effort is employed to remove it.

Pepper spray, batons, water cannons, negative media representation, societal and economic sanctions, and political exclusion are the removal tools.

There’s no hope for a society that narrows its focus on 1% of the problem. It’s much, much larger than that, which may be why the 99% are having so much trouble articulating workable demands.

Agreed Dan

What we have here is a generation of spoiled baby boomers who were all sold and bought into the freedom 55 notion and who were willing to mortgage my future, my kids future and grand kids future to live high off the hog for their life time. But that's what the 60's protests were all about. Lifestyles choices and hedonism, is it any wonder we're at the point we are at now with these types of ideas steering the ship. No we live in a society where the main goal is to consume and people are stuck in perpetual adolescence. The boomers made peace with the system, a system that does nothing but visits normalized violence upon people and the natural world.

And they were paid off with table scraps.

What's happening & Where does it go from here...

First, I think it is or should be clear by now, that Occupy as constituted is not in and of itself going to be able to force through any major change in this society. It has launched a movement of questioning, even challenging some status quo assumptions, but really I think, it is largely made up of the wrong people to make any serious, in depth changes in society or the economy. (And that is not meant to insult anybody, for they are good people no less, simply an objective observation.) Clearly, their role has been extremely useful, and they ARE challenging "normal" politics and beginning the process of posing hard questions to the rich and powerful. But in part, precisely because it is "young" and inexperienced as a movement, poorly positioned in the economy, I think, it is lacking in a hard understanding of the nature of the status quo system. And as a consequence of that, also lacking in a hard understanding of what needs to be done, concretely within the political and economic institutions and enterprises of "the system" to improve their living prospects, and those of majority society.

Idealism, even resentments, are fine as initial motivators, but if you ARE also on the margins and outside merely looking in, it is not enough. It is not enough because if you are really going to change anything you also need to have a concrete understanding of how the economic and political order work, and how the class and power lines run. And flowing from that, be prepared to effect them, AND be joined by forces especially WITHIN the economy that ARE positioned to strike where it counts and hurts (the status quo order)... Where there is real power to grab. It is the working masses who need to be in that special place, onside and ready to act. (And which is going to take more than trade union leaders bringing dubious allegiances with them, carrying placards alongside you.)

So, while I think Occupy is a valuable movement experience and I fully support it, it is going to take more than a kind of youthful hippy reminiscent sensibility, wanting a vague love, peace and quasi-cultural change. We've been there and saw that fall on its ass already, and drift into hippy mercantile capitalism. :-)

Still, anything that rocks and causes questioning to begin WITHIN the system is a positive for me... and demonstrates what masses of people can do and effect, and the general line of travel we all need to take.

continued next post...

What's Happening Here II...

From precious post...

But what is not enough for my type, and we are there in and around Occupy too, working to help it develop its understanding and a workable democracy, grow and succeed, is an aimless, airy fairy, one more unclear, undisciplined love and peace movement. (As important as love and peace are.;-) But, as this economic and political crisis of capitalism spreads and deepens, and it is everywhere, everyday, it needs to connect with the lives of masses of ordinary working people... especially in their work places. For its these folks, whatever the difficulties connecting with them, linked up with those in the universities and other streams of society, who are positioned to effect and enforce real change in the economy... which is the throat of the ruling class order.

We are still early into this. Occupy, though hopefully not, may yet wither and die of its shortcomings. We shall see. Meanwhile, even if it does, simple paying attention to the social, political and economic order around us and around the world, and what is happening to global capitalism, tells you that this is not going away anytime soon. Whatever issues working people have that are right now getting in the way of their being motivated to take "the system" on, if this collapsing economic order continues, is all destined to change. (And if you don't know that even our working class in this country is suffering right now, and growing increasingly "concerned", even anxious, then you are on another class planet and don't know jack shit.)

The main value of Occupy already has been, that it demonstrates "politics as usual" in this country, only marginally less than Greece or anywhere else in the advanced capitalist countries, is already being questioned and challenged. And from here on, whatever happens to Occupy. and I wish it further success, the fight is already on and begun. Even if it's still a largely circling and feinting movements, with neither side fully committed to the fray yet. This too will change.

What?

The 60s were about the same thing the occupy movement is about, basically fairness to other living beings.

My crowd didn't invent woman's rights but it flourished in our time.

We invented the environmental movement, the anti war movement, healthy food and many other things.

The MSM knocked us, and mocked us, at every opportunity.

Our movement is still strong in many parts of the world especially the north west.

Yes the world is getting less fair, but you can see that's changing.

If the establishment had followed the path we suggested in the 60s it would be a far better world today, but they didn't, and now we have the occupy movement.

So go for it guys, now we have computers and that may make all the difference

And while I'm ...

on a rant the boomer's invented your computer, conceived, financed, and designed The Tyee.

And what has your crowed done lately?

Bang On, Mr. Dobbin

In Canada, we have our own Noam Chomsky and Chris Hedges, and his name is Murray Dobbin. Clear, concise, eloquent, Dobbin sets out the truth like few others.

Every thing Dobbin describes has the clarion ring of truth. The 1960's were so different than now. Things indeed were bad, but nothing like what has transpired since. We now live under the heavy boot of a plutocracy, so rich and wealthy that they consider themselves above the rest of us (the 99%).

In addition, corporate rule has been so successful, with the mainstream media cheerleading alongside, that we do indeed face a crisis.

It is not clear how we will break the chains of this new form of enslavement. But one day, we shall. That is a certainty.

Thank you Tyee for continuing to cover the Occupy Movement, which the ruling elite impatiently wish would just go away.

A bunch of thoughts

Thank you for this article, such an improvement over Bill T's Vancouver Sun-like attack. I agree with several others that the generation thing should not be stressed. Many of the people at the Occupy sites are 60's people - we never gave up. Nor did we all have faith in the state. That said I think the movement is preparing the way for the real movement of social change that will arrive when the other economic shoe drops. The global economy is collapsing and Canada will not be immune. When we have 20% unemployment look for an Occupy 2 happening. Consider that in 1983 we had 110,000 people in the street opposed to the cruise missiles. Imagine that number occupying down town. Couple that with general strikes aka Oakland. Then have the whole movement run via direct democratic assemblies, another lesson from OWS. Then we are in shape to really kick greed creep ass! Of course the parasitic class know this which is why they have been slandering the movement. But here they are doing our work for us. To paraphrase Abbie Hoffman, "The enemy is our leader". Every new person in the struggle confronted by the lies and filth showered on the movement, becomes angered by this mendacity and thus radicalized. Thank you MSM and all the bigots and haters out there!

Refuse to serve under a corporate flag.

First, I would like to give a long and noisy Bronx cheer to those precious so-called human beings in Victoria...those who called for the removal of the Occupiers from the town square because their tents would be in the way of the upcoming 'Christmas' fair! How's that for the saddest of ironies?

Good insights in this article by Murray Dobbin.

A sign one of the NYC Occupiers held up days ago as he was about to be removed, said it wonderfully:

"What happens next is up to you."

A good start would be what Vivianlea and Tankenka advocated - stop buying from the Big shops.

My suggestion to accomplish this would be a call for an increasing series of rotating "no buy" days.

For example, on one specified day a week...let's say Thursdays.... no one shops from or patronizes the Big stores. If you must shop, shop small and local.

This can then be increased to two specified days a week and so on....we continually up the pressure of not playing their game. (The internet could come in very handy in providing lists and updating information.)

Since the state, and the corporations they now serve, have demoted citizens into mere corporate clients.....our power lies in our rejection of this role/definition and in our refusal to act as 'a client' (in any form) of the corporate state.....our refusal to buy their things or their ideas eg, their demeaning co-option of government and their demeaning idea of citizenship and human rights.

We must become undependable, unpredictable, and unwilling customers of the corporate state....and redefine ourselves and the kind of world we want to live in..

Murray Dobbin is getting to the root

... of our dilemma far more than most voices in here. I'd quibble about the details regarding corporate development over the ages, but it would be tangential to the thrust of this good article.

First, as Jerry Munro points out, the OWS movement is bringing issues to the forefront, making more and more people aware of the global, systemic problem of capitalism and its stranglehold on government through corporations.

Many say there are no solutions offered, but I think the real problem is that the solutions do not want to be accepted. The cost of behaving in a manner conducive to effecting change is seen as too big at this juncture, and far too foreign from our understanding of how things operate.

Most folks likely sense, but do not believe, the jig is up, that they have been bought off with dreams of the good life; but worse yet, most refuse to accept that they have been deeply brainwashed by a perpetual onslaught of state propaganda, and thus do little or nothing to correct that reality.

To some, at this juncture it's clear; and with the passing of time it will become increasingly obvious to most, that our sovereign nation and pseudo-democracy/republic have been lost to the corporations. We've been blindsided, though largely through our chosen lack of awareness to life beyond what we are fed.

Once the vast majority come to realize we have been hoodwinked through distraction and self-aggrandizing rhetoric of person and country, then we will work together in solving this. That's premised on there being time left, ecologically speaking, to bother with such things beyond mere bodily survival.

The solutions will remain as they are now, in large part: Stop supporting the state by turning peacefully away from this fraudulent power regime (and that's not to say it isnt dangerous) that manipulates us through money first, but ultimately the sword.

Things do not need to continue as is, despite Christophe's wisdom that they will because that's whats always been. We are free to change our minds, to act differently, and to demand something else for ourselves.

But spending your money at Costco or Starbucks, or lining up in queue to validate the crumbling system with your vote, or remitting Federal taxes, or 'hating your global neighbours while making sure you don't forget to say grace', only perpetuates the beast.

When your house is being eaten out from under you by termites, voting to change a window pane is not going to solve the problem. Desperation may have you believe it is all you can do, but its likely because the alternative is seen as too threatening to your comfort.

Lawrence

And yet here we are. With the world on the edge of an ecological disaster only rivaled by past extinctions, growing inequality and resource depletion on mass scale. Listen I'm not going to generalize and paint a generation with the same brush, but your generation as been at the helm and things have only got worse. By the way the computer was invented in World War 2.

I don't know if we are on the edge of an ecological disaster

We are very close, but still in an excellent position to FIX IT. The baby boomers were the cutting edge of change in their youth, and they still are. Trouble is, you need a loud voice and a big stick to get them off their arses. Back in the day, there was a generation gap, and it was very real. It was bit like - today actually.

Today's generation gap is about the environment. My generation (age 62) is a lost cause but their kids are not. You can get to the boomers through their kids. Recruit the boomer's kids and you co-op Mom and Dad's money. Get the kids in high school to startworking on real day-to-day issues and they will surprise you.

Just make sure yo have an actual OBJECTIVES with achievable GOALS and you might ACCOMPLISH something. Otherwise, join the Occupiers and stew in your own juice.

In general terms, the baby-boomers

...are far more optimistic of your establishment's ways that are mine, the Generation Joneses.

What appears to your faithful eyes as folks stewing in their own juices is, in fact, a slow-burning fire which will torch this systemic charade the Boomers prostrate themselves to. And why wouldn't they? Life has never been easier for a generation in the history of the planet. Thankfully there are still a number who 'get it'.

You, Christophe, may find it disconcerting that there is no papered outline for you to follow along with, but that is the movement's global strength. You seem to have a difficult time playing anything other than the establishment's game, whereas OWS sees the game as the problem.

Your real fictions (political, economic, monetary) are not going to suffice the mob, not this time.

good article,

and I agree, corruption is the root of all our problems, along with greed.

I agree with lynn. Screw the shareholders of big corporations

Only possible problem there is that some of the biggest corporate shareholders are government worker pension plans and they go hand in hand.
But if we are going to talk the talk then we better be prepared to walk the walk.
Which would mean higher contributions from the worker to compensate lower earnings from the corporations.
I'm sure all progresive public sector workers would be prepared to that. Don't you lynn?

Salmonid

Alan Turing's little two room darling was based on technology that was a hundred years old when he got the idea of using radio valves as 'zeros and ones'.

So I guess you're right that really was the start of the digital computer.

There won't be any change, or

There won't be any change, or improvement, as long as the crap of neoclassical economics is being taught in our universities and until people realize that:

Wealth can not be created, only taken from others, the environment and future generations.

That simple.

Ed Deak.