Opps

Forgot the link to the full report from Sage Associates Environmental Consultants. http://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/

Lieberal friends with benefits

Don't forget the long long list of former BC Hydro executives and former Lieberal mla's and and other 'friends' of the Lieberals who now have executive positions with the 'private' hydro producers currently fleecing the citizenry.

Gives a whole new meaning to the 'Friends with Benefits' concept, except we're the ones getting screwed.

Unnecessary and Intrusive

I suspect that the real reason, other than political payoff, has to do with control and marketing. Smartmeters are capable not only of metering but throttling or cutting off entirely, giving the utility or whatever delegate of hacker the power to end the customer's power. I believe also that most electrical appliances now contain identifiers and control mechanisms allowing remote access, and that the Smart meter would, of course, be able to read whatever information is emitted by these devices and relay that to a central data gathering apparatus. Industry pays for access to this kind of information and data based on these readings would be of great value in marketing both goods and services.

OK, I don't know any of this, but the fact that we're spending a tad less than a billion dollars for a device that is of no measurable value to the citizens of the province on what appears to be a no-bid, no-consult contract and opening ourselves at the same time to another wave of corporate surveillance under specious justification reeks of the kind of crony capitalism that has once again driven us to the brink of economic and social collapse.

When the meters are smarter than the voters, disaster can't be far away!

BC Hydro has already

BC Hydro has already installed one at my house. I was not informed and was installed when no one was home. Should I ask them to come back and re install the analog.

A clear NO

This is a no brainer. NO. And that means NO.

Is having electricity a requirement in your home? Or is it more a convenience to have it?

It is not required of you to have BC Hydro provide you with electricity then you can say No, thank you. I want the analog meter. End of story.

I also don't get this...they come to your house and install it when you are not home? And they are not informing you? wtf?

Is this a mandatory thing?

No studies have been done on the effect of these devices and people seem to downplay the danger. We already have enough waves circling around us. We should be a tad more respectful of our bodies and what we exposing them to.

Either way - smart meters are not bad if I look at the fact that people should conserve energy - BUT - let's do this with common sense like other countries have done it. Please!

stinkysalmon

Just don't use it as a pillow and you should be OK.

Saving power stations is good, too

One of the big benefits of smart meters is to encourage shifting the time that energy is used. The point of this not to save energy, it's to save the need to construct the next power stations or build the next dam.

Certain times of day have peak energy demand, and BC Hydro needs to have enough power stations to meet that peak. Motivating customers to move peak energy use to non-peak times is a better alternative to building an extra peaking power generator.

So sure, "even using electricity at a different time doesn't save energy". But it does help save a power station.

I do not want a wireless hydro meter

This is a serious concern and it is wrong if people are not given the option. We are already exposed to so many radio waves without having any wireless devices ourselves. It is interesting to note that in Japan they have banned cellphone use for children 16 and under because of concerns regarding exposure to wireless radio frequency. Babies and small children are always at a higher risk. I hope people in British Columbia let the (so called)Liberal Government and BC Hydro know that this is not acceptable.

BC Hydro is not acting alone

Smart Grid is a Globalist plan based on the ideas of the same dude who gave us "Peak Oil". That's what your "carbon footprint" is all about.

"In 1932, Tech­noc­racy, Inc. called for the destruc­tion of price-based eco­nomic sys­tems and the cre­ation of an energy-based accounting system that would mea­sure inputs and out­puts of human activity in terms of energy pro­duc­tion, dis­tri­b­u­tion and con­sump­tion. The require­ments for a suc­cessful system was co-authored by M. King Hub­bert, a young geo-physicist who later devel­oped “Hubbert’s Peak Oil Theory” that pro­vided intel­lec­tual backing for the modern envi­ron­mental or “green” movement.

Specif­i­cally, Hub­bert detailed the require­ments for a suc­cessful imple­men­ta­tion of Technocracy:

“Reg­ister on a con­tin­uous 24 hour-per-day basis the total net con­ver­sion of energy.
“By means of the reg­is­tra­tion of energy con­verted and con­sumed, make pos­sible a bal­anced load.
“Pro­vide a con­tin­uous inven­tory of all pro­duc­tion and consumption
“Pro­vide a spe­cific reg­is­tra­tion of the type, kind, etc., of all goods and ser­vices, where pro­duced and where used
“Pro­vide spe­cific reg­is­tra­tion of the con­sump­tion of each indi­vidual, plus a record and descrip­tion of the indi­vidual.” [Scott, Howard et al, Tech­noc­racy Study Source, p. 232]
http://www.augustforecast.com/2011/06/15/technocracys-endgame-global-smart-grid/

The endgame here is serfdom, unless you die of cancer first.

MUST-see

MUST-SEE 4-minute youtube video on Smart meters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8JNFr_j6kdI

I live in a 6 unit old house

I live in a 6 unit old house conversion condo in Victoria and the room with the
6 meters for everybody is 1 drywall wall away from my bedroom.There will be SIX smart meters 5 feet from my head in my bedroom if this goes through.The room with the meters has outside access and is locked. The hydro meter reader is the only one with access. I want my own key.I got an interrogation from hydro as to why I wanted the key. I told the hydro person I have a 1/6 ownership in the room and I'm entitled to get in it as it belongs to me / us,the strata owners, not hydro. Still an interrogation, this time if I am on the strata council.I don't think that should matter. Those of you who have houses have access to your meters, don't you?Why should condo owners be treated differently? At any rate, I finally got hydro to send me a request for a key form to fill out. This form is on letterhead from ACCENTURE.I had forgotten that BC Hydro is just a front name for a huge American corporation to which hydro operations has been outsourced.So here we are, BC citizens, standing in from of the US juggernaut Accenture with our little No Smart Meter signs.Do you think Accenture cares? I'll put up my sign though, as soon as I get my key to my own property from Accenture.

The real purpose of Smart Meters...

...is to siphon off more of BC Hydro's revenue (our hydro fees) into private hands thus bankrupting the utility and opening it up for privatization. You see it in BC Ferries as well. With all the horror stories about the IMF setting conditions for loans to countries with massive debt you start wondering why right-wing governments like the BC Liberals are piling up debt like there is no tomorrow.

please learn some logic

"However, some prominent doctors strongly believe smart meters are indeed a health hazard."
PLEASE LEARN LOGIC. The statements you provided not even remotely support this conclusion.

I find this smart meter program quite stupid actually, not because of the fear mongering about health effects, but because they don't seem to be tying this upgrade to smart meters to a feed-in-tariff program. That would make sense.
As for all of these 'radiation scare people': cellphones are 1000x more damaging (due to both proximity and constancy of signal). So none of you ever use cellphones right ?

What about apartments?

How do you find out if you live in an apartment that smart meter was installed? Can they actually do that without informing a tenant?
If I am responsible my hydro bill and not the landlord what are my options? I definetely do not want this surveilance thing installed.
wtf?

Wrong question

""What is the evidence that smart meters are safe and have no adverse health effects?" asks Dr. David Carpenter,..."

What about

"What is the evidence that smart meters are not safe and have adverse health effects?" None.

Re: Please learn some logic

Actually, our family does not use cellphones and sticks to wired modems and wired computer connections (as opposed to wireless) because we are concerned about the exact same health hazards you feel are acceptable risks.

A large increase in brain cancer is well correlated with the take-up of cellphone technology. Of course, correlation does not mean causality, but increased risk of brain cancer is certainly a legitimate cellphone and computer wireless technology use concern; just because others use those technologies does not mean there are no risks. It just takes a while for people to catch on.

I do agree with you that in most cases the smart meters are substantially further away from your body than cell phones and computer wireless transmitters so via the inverse square law smart meters are a smaller risk to health than cell phones and computer wireless technology. Nevertheless, if possible I am going to reject the "upgrade" to a "smart" meter for the health risk reason as well as the many other good rejection reasons discussed here.

Hydro

Whenever I hear the phrase 'BC Hydro', the hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's been doing that for decades of abuse.

Separate the Issues

There are plenty of legitimate political reasons to oppose the way these meters are being introduced.

Conflating them with supposed health risks related to RF radiation is a serious mistake, however. There are plenty of doctors and organizations willing to say that something "might be" risky but, since there's logically no way to prove that anything is safe and there's no evidence that these things are not, it's foolish to make this a cornerstone of the debate.

What we need now is not to be distracted by Luddites who simply refuse to accept that any technology can be safe. This is about politics and corruption, and engaging the woo faction will pretty much ruin the credibility of, and drain the energy away from, a worthwhile critique of the system.

BC Hide-row (or how to ruin BC)

Time to boot out the BC Liberals. Their 10 year reign of destruction has been the worst decade in BC's history. Once they are kicked out, we can start cleaning out all their pals from all the cushy positions they have got themselves in to - and NO sweet dismissal deals or nice fat pension plans!

Seriously?

Not sure if Bill really believes what he's writing here, or is just looking for an opportunity to hack the liberals. Not that I'm a friend to the current government, but this is just a lot of anti-intellectual crap.

The point of time based pricing is to reduce peak demand for electricity. Electrical infrastructure (dams, transmission towers, sub-stations, etc.) has to be built to satisfy peak demand, not average demand. If we can reduce peak demand so that it's close to average demand, we don't need to build as much infrastructure. This means less money for constructing new power stations, less pollution, fewer dead salmon, fewer drowned villages and a host of other benefits to the people of the province.

How do we reduce peak demand? By providing incentives for people to consume energy at different times.

And the idea that the radio waves from smart meters are going to damage your health is unfounded. Do you have a cordless phone in your house? Wireless internet? Seriously. There's no evidence that these transmissions are harmful, and no reason to think they are.

SMART METER -> SMART GRID = CONSERVATION!

Got my smart meter and luvving it! Can't wait to the internet analysis gets going!

Sure people can shift their consumption pattern a bit to take advantage of Time of Use savings - we need to put the pressure on BC govt to bring in TOU energy rates - pronto!

Money made by Liberals on smart meters is peanuts compared to the whole project and if NDP entrepreneurs (are there any?) had seen the value of smart meters, they would be making the money on it. NDP is just whining because all those COPE 378 political contributions to them might be a bit thinner as meter readers move to other jobs.

Smart meters are a key part of the smart grid, which will be part of smart city and lead to more and better conservation of all of our resources. BC Public Health Dr Kendall says that cellphones &smart meters are as safe as any reasonable person can expect: http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/pho/issues.html

Smart meters aren't as intrusive as that meter reader who comes to snoop while he's supposed to be checking out the meter.

Independent researchers at Uni Fraser Valley confirm that BC Hydro's projections of grow-op energy losses are on the conservative side. Smart meters will help reduce those illegal losses.

Lots of great smart meter projects in Canada - like Ontario and Quebec - and around the world:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=115519311058367534348.0000011362ac6d7d21187

The only arguments against

The only arguments against smart meters are:
--possibility of health effects. I would be somewhat reassured if I knew that sound longitudinal studies were underway, which would at least hold out hope for early reversal of mistakes now -- but I gather that is not the case. Too bad that the system doesn't make use of the electricity grid to transmit data, thus eliminating this source of concern.

--the apparent lack of legislation regarding sharing the data. this does need to be clarified.

Otherwise, smart meters will help with demand management, which will be CRITICAL if we are to have a sustainable lifestyle.

A billion dollars..

...to tell us that we use less power at night after we have switched off the lights. Liberals are really smart cookies.

Here nor There

I'm all for moving energy usage to off-peak times in order to save building dams. Conservation needs to be number 1. And I'm all for two-tier pricing if it's revenue neutral. It's not hard to connect the dots between peak usage and new dams, so I think that's the biggest issue here, not this radiation stuff.

However, it does sound like there needs to be more studying done and I'm all for forcing BC Hydro into a corner until they can prove the safety. Still, has anyone actually provided evidence of how much the smart meters emit and what that's the equivalent of. We've heard from BC Hydro that it's ridiculously low compared to cell phones, but where is the specific claim to counter that?

This seems to be an issue much like the HST where there are compounding and confusing elements here.

So these minor issues like the meters being installed when people aren't home need to be ditched. Would you honestly expect BC Hydro to schedule an appointment for every housing unit in BC? Get real. Talk about increasing rates! The big issues of the special interests and corruption, burden on the consumer, and environmental impact.

privacy too

Yes and privacy is another issue as well, though definitely inflated. I really don't care who knows when I'm using electricity. Pick your battles, people.

risks

If the base of a cordless phone emits 24/7 whether the phone is in use or not, why wouldn't a smart meter emit all the time, too? Is the technology different? Is the connection really shut off completely most of the time?

Will there be built into the system something that prevents, forever, more than the few minutes of information gathering we are currently told will occur?

Is the gap between "possibly carcinogenic" and "not carcinogenic" so tiny, and the gap between "possibly carcinogenic" and "probably carcinogenic" so big?

Where is the business case?

Where is the business case for BC Hydro, at the behest of the provincial government, for implementing this $1 billion boondoggle?

If the merits of installing smart meters was a slam dunk as the BC Liberal government insists, they would not have excluded this program from the scrutiny of the BCUC. Instead we have been given nothing but unsubstantiated benefits.

A smart meter on its own gives no more information on power consumption than the current mechanical meters now in use. All it does is eliminate the need of someone to read the mechanical type. In order for someone to find out the power hogs in one's home one must purchase an add-on unit that is capable of monitoring the electrical use of all appliances in the home. For the majority of people this will not be done which blows the conservation argument out of the water.

Whether they will have a negative effect on our health, the jury is out. We have been subjected to so many new innovations over the last 20 years regarding technology that no one in the medical, scientific or governmental entities can guarantee anything. It's not only the impact of one isolated thing, but the cumulative effect of all things that we are exposed to that may be harmful to all of us.

fear of the invisible

I have no concern at all about the tiny amount of radiofrequency these things will emit. I'm only concerned that it is a waste of money from a monopoly crown corporation. In a few years when plug-in electric vehicles are commonplace these will probably be needed, but are they worth the dollars right now?

smart...

BC Hydro feeds you electricity through wires to your home and then they "need" radio waves to get your user information back to them! Now that is smart. Or do I "smell" something ? The technical problem of sending information through the electrical grid has been solved years ago.
Here is what you can do if you have access to a sunny area: buy a few high quality solar panels ( they are 1/3 of the cost of just a few years ago ), a couple of golf cart type size deep cycle batteries, an mppt controller and a couple of inverters. Wire the whole thing together, take a big snip and cut off the incoming hydro line. The saving of the monthly hydro fees alone will pay for the system in a few years.

Smart meters, wireless or

Smart meters, wireless or otherwise are critical to the implementation of demand side management. Without them, the incorporation of green power generating technologies into the grid will be much more difficult and costly.

Mom's Smart Meter Story...

My Dear Mother lives in Northern Ontario - Lake Of The Woods. This is her Smart Meter Story.

Her small home is very well constructed and insulated; above standard code values.

Energy saving lights; a small fridge/stove; compact washer/dryer; crt(tube)TV; propane heating; a cord for block-heating the small car in winter. Plus, a whole bunch of candles and best buddy Louie, a Cairn terrier.

Never one to sit idle for too long, Mom is away 40 hours a week. At 75, she still works full time. I want her to stop, but she loves it and the community that shops the supermarket.

We both know necessity plays a role; regular bills seem relentless as they get bigger and bigger.

Louie is comfortable and content in his routine: watering the woods in spring, summer, fall; his signature duty marking solemn winter white. The heat gets turned down. Louie is O.K. with that.

Candles often replace lights on winter nights. Mom and Louie cuddle, of course. It's warmer that way. The tube TV radiates heat; that helps. I suppose.

Around the house, throughout the year, there just isn't much more she can do to conserve energy. Mom and Louie are quite economical. Period.

Her power consumption has gone down yet the bill is bigger; about $200/month(winter). Mom says Smart meters were not installed by Smart politicians. She has another name for them.

I am convinced there is another agenda in play here:

*Paying off Political (Liberal) friends and insiders:(Will McMartin). I know this as Corporate Welfare
*New revenue production: 50% hydro rate increase
*Creating a new, profitable product: selling your detailed, private consumption data
*Gradualism: preparing for the eventual, complete privatization of another public resource: BC Hydro.

I believe RobertWilliams' 4min.Youtube video and my Mom, got it right.

RobertWilliams:
Stop BC Hydro's "implied consent" justification for installing Smart Meters without your consent/when your not home:
*just say "NO" in a letter/certified mail and keep using your current meter

My Mom:
"Smart Meters are not installed by Smart Politicians...they are just !*%$@^#ing, %*#$^!@!ass politicians."

BC needs more Smart Voters. In the next election, Vote for Change. Throw the Lying B*stards out.

A multiplicity of issues

The business plan and contracts to insiders doesn't quite pass the smell test, but it appears some people have their tinfoil hats on a little too tight.

Needless corporate bureaucracy

There never has been a need for a BC hydro or any other hydro corp for that matter.

In 1891 Nicola Tesla invented the tesla coil. On top of a flag pole in your yard sits a copper coil. As the earth turns enough electricity is generated to power your home.

The problem with this is the government has no way of collecting fees for your use of this type of electricity. Geez I’m pretty upset about that part…..shocked in fact……

Not positive, but I believe that the rights for this invention are held by JP Morgan…..

Here is the front page of search…

http://www.bing.com/search?q=the%20tesla%20coil&pc=conduit&form=CONBDF&ptag=A6BEF691E0BE440759AF&conlogo=CT2611275

Here are some images.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=the+tesla+coil&qpvt=the+tesla+coil&FORM=IGRE#x0y0

re: airwin

Do you also stay out of any and all public places ? Unless you lock yourself in your house (and shield it too) your attempts at avoiding at pretty mute.