Opinion

Despite 'Smart Policy' Spin, HST Still Hated

In last three months 72 per cent have a worse opinion of Campbell, one per cent have a better one.

By Bill Tieleman, 3 Aug 2010, TheTyee.ca

Old woman protesting HST

Raging Grannies aren't swayed. Photo courtesy of Skot Nelson from Your BC: The Tyee's photo pool.

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"I think the roll-out of the HST has been smoother than we anticipated." -- B.C. Finance Minister Colin Hansen, July 28, 2010

Translation: The tar and feathers intended for B.C. Liberal MLAs who imposed the Harmonized Sales Tax on July 1 will wait until recall campaigns start in mid-November.

But make no mistake -- this government is still reeling from the reaction to imposing the HST that has added an extra seven per cent tax on thousands of goods and services.

Last week Hansen put maximum topspin on the B.C. Liberal government’s recent decision to cancel a plan to mail 1.6 million copies of a 12-page, full colour pro-HST flyer to every residence in the province.

That would be the mailer Elections B.C. stopped Hansen from dropping in the post box -- because it would have violated rules against unregistered opponents of the Fight HST citizens initiative then underway advertising in favour of the tax.

It would also be the mailer that Hansen won't tell us the significant cost of writing, designing and printing, despite the likelihood it will be shredded and recycled.

"The feedback we've had from the public and from many of the MLAs, many felt that it might even be in fact counterproductive at this stage,” Hansen said last week.

No kidding. The government actually figured out that voters are not interested in being told the tax they hate is really good for them? Finally.

Measuring the HST hatred

And as for the HST itself?

"There's a growing perception that this is actually a smart policy move," Hansen said with a straight face.

Really, minister? Let's take a look at the facts -- and at the disastrous shape your government is now in as a result of imposing the HST.

Start with last week's Conference Board of Canada report that found a huge loss of consumer confidence in B.C., thanks to the HST.

The largest drop in the country came in B.C. and said Conference Board economist Todd Crawford, it "coincided almost one-for-one with the onset of the new HST tax in British Columbia."

The Board consumer confidence index fell 12.9 points to 78.9 after being 109.1 in January 2010.

Which other province now has an even lower level of consumer confidence than B.C.? Only Ontario, where an HST was also imposed in July.

Then there's the Angus Reid Public Opinion poll released July 13 that found 67 per cent of voters in B.C. Liberal ridings would definitely or probably support recall to remove their MLA from office.

That includes 35 per cent of B.C. Liberal voters who would "definitely" sign a recall petition and 19 per cent more that would "probably" sign it.

Of those who voted NDP in B.C. Liberal ridings, 87 per cent would definitely or probably support recall, as would 82 per cent of Green Party voters.

Libs pummelled in polls

And no wonder -- the poll found 30 per cent of respondents expect the HST to "severely" impact their household finances, while 43 per cent think it will "moderately" do so -- only four per cent thought it would have no impact.

For businesses impacted directly by the additional seven per cent the HST added to the GST for the first time, the poll only had bad news.

A full 70 per cent of respondents said they will eat out less often in restaurants due to the HST now applying to all food, while 62 per cent will reduce going to concert and sporting events, and 60 per cent will cut movie and theatre attendance.

That sentiment explains two signs in a restaurant where I ate last week: one looked like a B.C. car license plate but read: "HST NFG." The other apologized for increased prices, blaming the HST.

All this shows why 75 per cent of those polled say they want the HST abolished and only 17 per cent would keep it.

And it demonstrates why the B.C. Liberals dropped even further in support, to a record low 23 per cent -- a massive 23 per cent dive since the 2009 election -- while the New Democrats sit at double that support -- 46 per cent.

Premier Gordon Campbell's "momentum" score? A remarkable 71 per cent, which means that in the last three months 72 per cent have a worse opinion of Campbell and just one per cent have a better one.

Recalls in the offing

Could things possibly get any worse for the B.C. Liberals? Oh yes.

By August 11 Elections BC will announce if the Fight HST initiative petition to kill the tax -- which I am involved with -- has been verified as reaching the sufficient number of signatures to be valid.

With 705,643 signatures obtained in less than the 90 day time limit and a safety margin of an extra five per cent more than the minimum 10 per cent required in every one of B.C.'s 85 ridings, the initiative should pass muster.

That would force a B.C. Legislative committee with a B.C. Liberal MLA majority to either send a bill to extinguish the HST to the Legislature or alternatively hold a non-binding vote on the HST across the province on Sept. 24, 2011.

Neither option will help the government, but officially voting down the citizens initiative would likely inflame those who signed -- and just before recall campaigns can be filed starting November 18.

B.C. Liberal MLAs could completely avoid recall -- but not the way they want to.

Battle moving to court

Starting the week of August 16, Fight HST's veteran lawyer Joe Arvay will argue in B.C. Supreme Court that the HST is unconstitutional and must be struck down.

Arvay's argument: every other province which has the HST passed explicit legislation imposing the tax -- but B.C. never did, instead only eliminating the old Provincial Sales Tax and signing a backroom deal with the federal Conservative government to bring in the HST.

If successful, the HST could be struck down by the courts, making the tax illegal and putting the government into a disastrous situation.

That same week a coalition of big business groups that support the HST and the B.C. Liberals will argue conversely that the Fight HST citizens initiative petition itself is unconstitutional.

But if the Council of Forest Industries, the Independent Contractors and Businesses Association, the Mining Association of B.C., the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, the Coast Forest Products Association and the Western Convenience Stores Association are successful, those voters who signed the initiative petition in good faith will likely be furious that the Elections BC-approved official attempt to get rid of the HST has been derailed by big business, again fueling recall efforts.

But there was one tiny bit of good news for the B.C. Liberals in the poll -- they still retain the most support of any political party in the province with just one segment of society -- those who earn over $100,000 a year.

What happens if Campbell ignores the initiative petition?

Recall in the fall -- count on it. [Tyee]

Bill Tieleman is a regular Tyee contributor who writes a column on B.C. politics every Tuesday in 24 Hours newspaper. E-mail him at weststar@telus.net or visit his blog.

55 Comments:

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  • Soundguy

    1 year ago

    Recall you say?

    http://www.recallinthefall.net

  • CanadianLatitude

    1 year ago

    Recall will be a hell of a

    Recall will be a hell of a lot tougher than the anti HST petition. I doubt it will succeed. If there was enough to bring down the government the libs would more than likely get re-elected as no alternative and I do not see the hst hatred that was around earlier. Sure Campbell and the libs are down in the polls but no election scheduled for almost 3 years either...

    I dunno why the NDP keep burying and hurting themselves and not change leaders. Campbell is way down in the polls but the funny thing is the NDP are only up a hair under 4% according to these numbers (where other polls only have them up 1.9 %) since last election, so who gets that support? The cons or Greens? Or will a lot go back to Campbell or the libs under a new leader for 2013?

  • jim1966

    1 year ago

    Good Article Bill But.....

    Carole James cannot win, sorry but the voters don't buy it. Why?, No clear plan, no clear alternative to the current government. Yes the BC Liberals are arrogant and really don't care all that much for BC and it's voters. Recall will succeed if the voters sign on. I think that the best chance of killing this tax is through the courts. This I think will be successful. Carole we need to hear from you and we want to learn what the NDP has to offer. We already know that the NDP will not kill the HST, they can't. Why, mostly because we don't have the 1.8 billion to hand back over to Ottawa. Setting all that aside for a moment I have to remind myself why Gordon and Co have to go, lies and arrogance are the two major points for removing these people from office.

  • Camero409

    1 year ago

    CanadianLatitude

    I can tell you this, the recall will be a lot easier than anticipated if the government doesn't recind the HST. I was on the front lines and I heard from a lot who voted LIbERal will not vote for them again. I wanted to remain neutral and didn't ask who they would vote for but many said the NDP at their worst were nothing like these liars (their word not mine). I expect many LIbERalS will be recalled in the recall campaign and the LIbERalS know it.

  • rantnic

    1 year ago

    RECALL THE DIRECTORS OF B.C. CHAMBER

    For goodness sake, why haven't the majority of the Chamber members ousted the directors of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce? They have highhandedly assumed that all, not just a majority of their members are pro HST therefore pro-Liberal. Were I, or to put it better, my company a member, I would be mad as hell.

  • FishingFool

    1 year ago

    Recall

    Recalls will be successful this fall. It's not like we need to recall the entire Liberal caucus. I figure we need 3. Recall one and the rest will get nervous. Recall 2 and another one or two will resign from caucus. Recall 3 and open revolt.

    That will result in an election. I agree it will not be an automatic NDP victory but who cares? The HST will be the central issue.

  • Tieleman

    1 year ago

    Bill Tieleman with breaking news - CRFA denounces HST impact

    Sorry for the early comment from me but I thought Tyee readers would want to know this breaking news - the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association (CRFA)is this morning denouncing the negative impact of the HST on its members.

    Here's a short excerpt of their news release with the URL for the full version after:

    Survey shows B.C. restaurants hit hard by HST

    VANCOUVER, Aug. 3 /CNW/ - The B.C. restaurant industry's worst fears about the HST have been realized. In a province-wide survey by the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association (CRFA), 72 per cent of respondents said the HST on restaurant meals has had a negative impact on business since it took effect July 1.

    On average, respondents reported a 10 per cent decline in sales compared to the same period last year.

    "There's no question the HST is hurting B.C. restaurants of all types, from fine dining to take-out," says Garth Whyte, CRFA president and CEO.

    "On behalf of our members, we will continue to press Premier Campbell for action. With numbers like these, we urgently need government to work with us to mitigate the negative impact of tax harmonization."

    The full release is at:
    http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2010/03/c7987.html

  • sdgreen

    1 year ago

    Liberals equal Burnt Toast

    Now that one month with the HST in effect, there is absolutely no doubt that the effect is dramatic. Legitimate small business in the service industry is hurting because people look at the cost and just do not do things. House renovation costs, food costs and so much more has outstripped any wage or pension increases. Governments at all levels are just taking way to much tax relative to the ability to pay without effecting the families living standards. The BCLiberals have increased a host of taxes/fees and taken together are hammering the poor, those on fixed incomes and the middle class. I have not come across any company that has reduced their prices or any promises to do so.

    The BCLiberals said that the HST would be good for business as only on point of administration would apply. What they did not say is that the CRA requirements for small businesses are overly complex, with hundreds of rules, exceptions, and reams of documentation. For small single operators the time to deal with both the HST and Business taxes is problematic.

    The BCLiberals are totally out to lunch on the HST, they lied to the people, they have completely mis-managed the taxpayers money. I voted for these twits, but never again. I will not vote for the NDP either as the do not seem to have any plan nor have made any attempt to deal with the HST question.

    Recall of MLAs starting this NOvember will test the will of the people and I do think there will be some successes which will cause much pain to the BCLiberals. At least I certainly hope so.

    I think a large number of people are just fed up with the entire political scene, at all levels of government.

  • Jeffrey J.

    1 year ago

    Poll Proves HST a Disaster

    "VANCOUVER, Aug. 3 /CNW/ - The B.C. restaurant industry's worst fears about the HST have been realized. In a province-wide survey by the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association (CRFA), 72 per cent of respondents said the HST on restaurant meals has had a negative impact on business since it took effect July 1. On average, respondents reported a 10 per cent decline in sales compared to the same period last year.

    "There's no question the HST is hurting B.C. restaurants of all types, from fine dining to take-out," says Garth Whyte, CRFA president and CEO. "On behalf of our members, we will continue to press Premier Campbell for action. With numbers like these, we urgently need government to work with us to mitigate the negative impact of tax harmonization."

    The CRFA survey found that:

    - only 3 per cent of respondents report the HST is having a positive
    impact on their business;
    - 72 per cent say the HST is having a negative impact;
    - 53 per cent say their customers are spending less;
    - 56 per cent have fewer customers;
    - 47 per cent have been forced to cut back on staff/staff hours to
    adjust to the HST; and
    - 26 per cent have had to offer more deals and promotions to mitigate
    the HST fallout.

    Since HST was first announced more than one year ago, CRFA has warned government that the new tax would result in significantly lower sales for British Columbia's fourth-largest private-sector employer.

    "The HST has dramatically tipped the playing field against restaurant operators. Their customers are spending less or diverting their spending to tax-free alternatives in grocery stores," says Mark von Schellwitz, CRFA's vice president, Western Canada. "It's time for government to step up and take action to help our members deal with a very tough transition to this new tax."

    Despite receiving more than 200,000 signed petitions from restaurant industry owners, staff, and customers opposing a new meal tax, government has thus far not addressed their concerns.

    The CRFA survey was conducted online between July 26 and 31, 2010. The findings represent 802 B.C. restaurants."

    Great coverage from BC's best independent news media!

  • MGS

    1 year ago

    Tight Lipped!

    Hansen would make a great ventriloquist. It's almost like his lips are glued together. I wonder if the words aren't actually coming out the other end.

    Recall if the legal challenge doesn't say it all!

  • VivianLea Doubt

    1 year ago

    hmmmmm...

    The Toronto Star ran a report on Toronto restaurants that were siphoning off tips from serving staff, and Food Service and Hospitality magazine followed up with an article in their June issue. Here's a quote from the CEO of the CRFA: "yes, minimum wage hurts; yes, it's costing money, but employers tell us [what] they'll do is cut back on staff. They wouldn't siphon off tips." The practice, says the magazine article, may be in response to the implementation of the HST in Ontario and BC and increasing minimum wages...

    Well, yes , let's follow the lead of the CRFA and abolish minimum wage along with the HST. For christ's sake, can anything these people say be taken as evidence of anything other than naked self-interest and the most mean-spirited greed? Oh, let us do cheer them on for opposing the HST.

    Meanwhile, across the province unemployment numbers are rising, servers and workers in retail stores of all stripes struggle with part-time hours and minimal wages and putting enough food on the table and fixed-income earners are really suffering. But by all means, lets fix our recall efforts on the HST, because it may help disguise the fact that there is no credible alternative to the Liberal party, or CRFA-speak...

    There is a class divide the likes of which has never been seen before in this province, and it will come down to (maybe) a kinder, gentler version of the Liberals: workers will still get minimum wage, but they will get to keep their tips. And the pundits will continue to analyze the numbers. Fuck the numbers, I say. Let's start building communities - if with no other contribution but not spending any money at a CRFA member restaurants... but say! What are the numbers at your local food bank?

  • ifsandsnbutts

    1 year ago

    Unless James stands down...

    for the good of the Province AND her party - the liberals are in for another term. Let's face it...she's lost 3 times to a lying drunk, how much clearer does it have to get??!

    If she's still there come recall time - the recall will fail. End of story.

  • DPL

    1 year ago

    What has the leader of the

    What has the leader of the official opposition got to do in regards to recalls? It's the local voters who decide if they want a recall of their lying Liberal MLA. Nothing to do with Carole James. If you want to blow a few Liberals out of the job, go work to see it happens.

  • offended

    1 year ago

    Carole's seems to be waiting for the Liberals to implode

    It didn't work last time and it's not going to work the next time. Silence is not an option.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Vivian sez

    That there's a class divide coming. Yes but the definition is debatable.

    Spoke today to a couple of well educated women and a guy from Europe that are traveling and will soon move on to the US and then Asia. Meanwhile, they are doing grunt casual work to gather some cash. They told me that they are busy. Employers keep calling them back. Why? They say that there's plenty of work for them here in Vancouver because most of the people at the casual-work-agency arrive late and think that they shouldn't have to work much, they seem to feel that they are entitled to a easy life. These travelers see nothing but opportunities here in BC, they like the egalitarian society and say they might well consider coming back one day.

    I heard Bill Vander Zalm's son on the radio recently saying that the HST has not affected his business one bit. A guy in Home Depot said the same. In a few months the restaurants will say the same.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    It's not James

    It's the media.

    The recall will stand or fall on the attention the media pays to it. If the print rags that pass for papers in this town decide that it would be nice to "pile on" and shit-kick Gordo to the curb in Novemnber, the recall stands a chance.

    If they continue as they have for twenty years, to divert the majority with "good news" of the latest $400-a-day spas at the latest travel spots, or finding a lost dog, or the continuing saga of the Canucks millionaires and their billionaire owners, sandwiched between the crooked lottery winning numbers, there will be no recall.

    Regretfully, the bulk of the population hasn't the education or the wits God gave an ant to evaluate what's good for him, so he relies on what he reads. And she don't read the Tyee...

    But lay off James. she's got nothing to do with it. I'm not defending, her, I'm just ignoring her, as you should too.

    As the media does too.

  • Camero409

    1 year ago

    realisticman

    Get your head out of your ass! I speak with small business all the time. They tell me the same thing, people want prices reduced or pay under the table. Guess what? Most pay under the table. That means less money for the government. That means less money for hospitals, education and all the other services government provide.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Camaro 409 ('68?)

    It's difficult to see how your comment relates to mine. I know you think that worker productivity is not a problem and that's probably what set you off on a spur-line tangent going on about the underground economy.

    It appears we cruise in different circles. My anecdote is true.

  • jim1966

    1 year ago

    Re: Lay Off James

    Nope, I cannot, nor will I. After 10 years of the BC Liberals I can tell you that no one wants them out more than I do. BUT, I cannot vote for any party that is unclear, yes they hate the HST, the Carbon Tax and all the other issues surronding our province today. In my previous post all I suggested was that we need to hear from this party as an alternative. I think that is the question most people want an answer to.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    What to do.

    The NDP still believes that Campbell and his gang are self destructing and the rule is that when the other guy is falling get out of the way. Carole James believes she has a waltz into the Premier's office and will make history as the first woman to be elected Premier and Metis at that. That is a powerful incentive. Unfortunately if she is wrong, we will all pay for the gamble and her hubris.

    She should go, but looking at the opposition benches and their performance in opposition, I can't see anyone who stands out. In fact most of them are simply seat warmers. When an election is called, I will probably decide what to do but I am not pleased with my options. The only thing is for sure, Campbell and his gang of lying thieves have got to go. Our future depends on it.

  • G West

    1 year ago

    Cruising in different circles

    The people I meet from Europe are aghast at what we've done to the natural beauty and the environment since the last time they were here. Young people all over the world like to travel and earn a few shekels illegally all the time...nothing much new about that. If they decide to become Canadians they'll soon realise that there are always people in certain 'industries' who will take advantage of them once they're here permanently too.

    It's unusual to think that anyone would extrapolate anything from such facile 'facts'. Even when they're cruising!

  • WHAT

    1 year ago

    Recall is not impossible given the times

    For those of you who say recall is impossible - it might have been but not given the present environment. I remember reading that the Petition would not be successful. Things change and right now our province/country is engulfed in corruption. I have heard from a certain generation (mostly from boomers) that the HST is here now so let's get used to it. I reply a BIG NO. God help us if the current politicians and bureaucrats our the best and brightest this generation has to offer. We are experiencing the most corrupt persons/groups our time has seen. Most of these bad boomers, used their friends to get them into positions. I see incompetence everywhere, I hop the good boomers will step up and hold their peers accountable. Nothing like having PAB bots, look into their eyes and you will not see signs of intelligence. The younger generations will have their day, remember boomers who is going to take care of you in the future. The good boomers will be taken care off naturally, the bad will die alone and money can't fix that. AGE does not necessarily bring wisdom. I see stupid people everywhere and most are older than me. The whole BC government needs to cull the stupid, move over old ones, we will show you have to lead. Recall is very possible, people are angry and the anger is not about to go away. We have stupid politicians who are hook on alcohol, drugs, gambling etc. Can't wait to see them on the streets so we can kick them to the curb. Bastards all of them.

  • WHAT

    1 year ago

    Recall is not impossible - given the times

    For those of you who say recall is impossible - it might have been but not given the present environment. I remember reading that the Petition would not be successful. Things change and right now our province/country is engulfed in corruption. I have heard from a certain generation (mostly from boomers) that the HST is here now so let's get used to it. I reply a BIG NO. God help us if the current politicians and bureaucrats are the best and brightest this generation has to offer. We are experiencing the most corrupt persons/groups our time has seen. Most of these bad boomers, used their friends to get them into positions. I see incompetence everywhere, I hope the good boomers will step up and hold their peers accountable. Nothing like having PAB bots, look into their eyes and you will NOT see signs of intelligence. The younger generations will have their day, remember boomers who is going to take care of you in the future. The good boomers will be taken care off naturally, the bad will die alone and money can't fix that. AGE does not necessarily bring wisdom. I see stupid people everywhere and most are older than me. The whole BC government needs to cull the stupid older one, we will show you how to lead. Recall is very possible, people are angry and the anger is not about to go away. We have stupid politicians who are hook on alcohol, drugs, gambling etc. Can't wait to see them on the streets so we can kick them to the curb. Bastards all of them. Coleman is the poster boy for over consumption and stupidity.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Carole James

    Has higher support than almost any other NDP leader, ever.

    The only people that don't support her are people that vote the right-wing option in this province whatever it is.

    Unless James abandons the Left and moves to the Right her numbers can't go up. Is that what you want her to do? Then say so, but otherwise I see no reason to supplant the most popular of NDP leaders.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    That's Entertainment!

    Lights, Camera, Action!

    http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/means+more+lights+camera+action+film+industry/3362103/story.html

    Lots of jobs too.

  • Camero409

    1 year ago

    realisticman

    No surprise there! Multinational corporations love it to. So do their CEO's, executives and shareholders. The majority of people will see no beneift. Funding for education, medical services and a host of other services that we once could rely on will become even more underfunded. This will pave the way for privatization of our medical plans and other services we need as the government offloads them in order to serve their masters, multi-national corporations.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    409

    What about the over 1 million BCers that are now receiving their HST rebates? These are benefits. That's a quarter of the population.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    By the Way

    As the article states, this will bring BC in line with Ontario where film producers have been able to reclaim their PST expenses.

    For over a quarter of a century both large and small businesses in Québec have been able to claim back their PST expenses. The sky has not fallen. BC is simply catching up with standard practice that has existed for years, 'back east'.

  • hotdice

    1 year ago

    The Horror of Hansen

    Hansen said “What surprises me is that people are prepared to believe an e-mail that has been forwarded 27 times, most recently from your brother-in-law’s cousin, about how terrible this is going to be, and people believe it,” he said.

    “You put out factual information about the real impact, and people don’t accept it.”

  • morechatter

    1 year ago

    Recall

    I wonder how Campbell's Liberal party members feel and if they have any say about the HSt as I'm certain if push came to shove Campbell's own party would shove him out of the way.

  • morechatter

    1 year ago

    Don't distort the facts

    So lay off James and lets leave media to the job as no media organization does it better than Global when it comes to distorting the facts.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    Frank

    Popularity is a comparison and related to the popularity of the other guy. You only have to be a 4 if all the others are two's. Small comfort there.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    On the HST. We get it already!

    So now my consumer tax is subsidizing the movie industry (putting out garbage movies I'll never watch) and CEO's of big corporations, their shareholders and a million others getting their tax rebates. That's exactly what we always said: It was a f&*%kin tax shift. We subsidize others and this is right-wing ideology from a bunch of government hacks making $125, 000 a year with fat pensions. We get it already, we always have, It is still a cash grab and not revenue neutral, we were fed bull s%%t and it is no better now.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Skywalker

    Guess what, you can be a big time movie maker too. If you want to. You can also make good movies; or try to. You can also work in the movies. Thousands of people do. You can also be a supplier to the industry, they eat, drink, drive vehicles, hire carpenters - you name, they use it. Then you can get the tax credits too.

  • Camero409

    1 year ago

    UN realisticman

    You must be a LIbERal hack. You fail to grasp the fundamenals of a TAX SHIFT. Instead you sound more and more like Hansen and Gordo. Wake up and smell the roses. You will be poorer (unless your one of the elite we speak about). That's a fact. We will rid ourselves of this corrupt government and hopefully elect people who are by the people and for the people.

    Mr. Theilman the note you posted on your blog about the Vancouver Sun reposting the article? Well it's impossible to download now so they have in effect removed it.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    409

    I'm not a Liberal hack but I do have my own business and I look forward to only having one sales tax return to file, so I'll save money there. I also expect to have more business as companies locate more companies in BC now that BC is on a level playing field with Canada's two largest provinces. I won't reduce my restaurant visits and the extra business and the more efficient accounting system will go to slightly higher restaurant bills. I will try and cut back on junk food since that is now subject to HST. Since I don't go to massage parlors or golf clubs, or expect to buy a home costing over $500,000 the added costs to these won't affect me. I guess I will have to pay more for haircuts if I decide to go to a salon and when I die my funeral will cost me more but I doubt that I'll notice that.

    Others that will benefit will be those at the lower income level that will now be receiving HST rebate cheques in the mail.

    In a few months this HST tax kerfuffle will disappear just as the Carbon Tax has.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    What a load of...R/man

    That is just the kind of nonsense Hanson and Campbell have been peddling and it doesn't work. I'm tired of giving to the very rich and the very poor every time this ideologically obsessed government gets itself in a mess. They don't have the guts to demand the rich (their friends) pay their fair share of taxes. They claim they will go elsewhere. So they pick on the class which doesn't move as readily. They call this "free enterprise" and go after the middle class consumer. And there are always a a few gullible realisticmen who buy their snake oil.

    You think the Carbon tax has disappeared? What circle of obscenely rich do you hide in?

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Skywalker

    Fumes or Fuming?

    The Carbon Tax has disappeared along with the Axe The Tax game. The international price of gas has come down. The price of gas today is the SAME as it was in November 2007, 2008 and, guess what?, 2009.

    Are you under the mistaken illusion that you are paying more for gas than you used to, or do you just hate facts? If so, this is the reference you need to calm your misunderstanding:

    http://www.vancouvergasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    R/man "not a liberal hack"

    I'm paying more for gas than I should because of a useless, misnamed carbon tax. That much is undeniable. I'm also paying a subsidy to business after Campbell declared "they would not bailout any industry." I'm also paying more for almost everything I purchase these days. I don't pay any attention to economist and those people who write about gas prices because they all have a self-interest. The price of gas has no relation to the price of a barrel of crude because the the oil companies will make their quota of profits regardless of the how many barrels they sell. I sure as hell don't believe anything Campbell or Hanson say based on the fact that they have lied on just about every issue from BC Rail, BC Hydro, BC Ferries, HST, Fudged Budgets, and Deficits just to name a few. Besides Vancouver gas prices are meaningless to anyone North of Hope.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Skywalker - definitely Beyond Hope

    Well, crank up that V8 buddy. You are so lucky! If you're living beyond Hope you're paying less than Vancouver because you don't have the Transit Tax on gas. Are you far enough out there up north that you ALSO get that Northern Residents Hardship Tax Benefit?

    If you do still find gas too expensive you might want to consider a bicycle. Down in the Lower Mainland our leaders are pushing for more of them, along with chickens in back. We have to all muck-in and save the planet. Will you be backing Gregor if he runs for the NDP again?

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    R/man you are such a comedian.

    Frankly I live beyond Hope B.C. because of people like you that claim "not a liberal hack." and then come up with some disjointed screed when challenged. We now have Campbell claiming "We have to earn back their (BC voter) trust." My God, the man has absolutely no clue. You want our trust so we can be lied to again? You must be joking? Better to rely of the "not liberal hacks" who will believe anything, even that a bicycle in two feet of snow is an environmentally friendly alternative.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Skywalker

    So, you think the NDP and Carole James will cancel the HST?

    Dream On.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    R/man "not a liberal hack"

    Not completely but they will stop catering to the car dealers and remove the tax on some goods. Maybe repeal some of the tax cuts for the rich. Anything, repeat anything or anybody is better than this bunch of lying shysters. Hell I'd even vote for Bill VanderZalm to get rid of them

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Skywalker

    Taxes on cars are same as before.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    No they are not

    Not on used cars in a private sale. Nor were boats in a private sale. I can see why you were confused...probably never bought a used car privately. Figures!

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Skywalker

    I can see you were confused. Private sales people are do not fall in the category of "car dealers".

  • Camero409

    1 year ago

    reallisticman

    What planet are you from? Where have you been for the last 10 years. The NDP in a terrible ecomomy balanced the budget. Left your buddies a billion. What did your buddies do with it? Gave it away! Next point, are you proud that 25% of BC's population live below the poverty line and qualifiy for a HST rebate? You are warped. In the long run they will pay more than the rebate they received. Find somewhere else to pedal your BS.

  • crankypants

    1 year ago

    Time for a dose of reality

    I get a kick out of the pro-HST adds running on the radio right now. The narrator is almost giddy announcing that 1.1 million BC citizens qualify for relief from the impact of the HST in the form of quarterly cheques from the BC government.

    1.1 million BCers is approximately one quarter of BC's population. Thus one can extrapolate that one quarter of the people in BC are bordering on being destitute. Now there's something for Campbell & Co. and his supporters to be proud of.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    Endured an interview with Campbell today

    Partially endured actually because he sounds like an Eddie Murphy in that movie where he's running for president and speaks in strings of cliches run together. Except Campbell talks faster like his brain is trying to catch up to his mouth. It was bad enough that the incompetent reporter lobbed puffball questions at him but to listen to him... I couldn't for very long.

  • crankypants

    1 year ago

    R-man

    You state that you have your own business and will benefit from the change from the old GST/PST regime to the HST regime. From your perspective this is good news. The question is, will you be passing on your new found good fortune to your customers? How much, percentage wise, will you be reducing your rates to your customers?

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    crankypants

    Prices change slowly. The price set for any good or service is based on various methods, Some see what they can get, some see what their competition is charging, some calculate based on costs. The way any business that wants to be viable calculates is usually done by calculating what their expenses are, including rent, cost of inventory (if any but not in the case of a 'service'), staff costs, taxes to be paid, insurance, etc.. Plus what markup they need to net them their expected earnings.

    If at years end a business looks at all the figures it can then see whether their prices make sense taking all into account and find the necessary mark-up or hourly service charges for the coming year.

    The benefits of increased tax credits for HST expenditures will reduce overall costs for businesses. The added savings in accounting fees or time spent calculating one tax instead of two will only begin to be realized after some time has passed under a new system as opposed to the old.

    Mark-up may well be ultimately reduced if savings in costs are evident and profits can still be realized to continue the business running to earn a decent living.

    If I were to need a new computer, for example, and this is a $2,000 expenditure then I will receive a $14 HST credit over what I would have under the old PST rules, where that PST was not recoverable. This $14 is either added profit which I can now pocket or maybe spend in a restaurant or on something else for the business, or I can reduce the price of something by that amount and still be in business making the same money as before. Expand that over a long period of time and you are then starting to talk about some interesting changes.

    The time saved in accounting work on one sales tax return instead of two can be spent on either; more work to earn more, or more time with my family and friends, or more time chatting on-line having productive conversations like this, with people like you.

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    Prices change slowly. Yeah right but they go up.

    In other words you have nothing to guarantee that reduced costs will be passed on. Only some fiath in the goodness and honesty of the businesses to pass on and make sure their profits are not from the "harmonization". The comforting thing for them and Hansen and Campbell is that there will never be any way of proving it. There are no means to make sure it happens. Prices will go up and the excuse will be that the benefits of harmonization will not be great enough to offset increased cost.

    Now you R/man may be gullible enough to believe such rubbish but I can't find anybody who does. That is why the "spin" Tieleman talks about didn't work. That is why Campbell is so hated. That is why folks won't ever trust him again.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Skywalker

    It's just plain silly to expect that anyone wants the government to guarantee that prices will come down. What kind of society is that?

    Of course prices will come down. Gas is cheaper than it used to be and those in charge of that are probably completely disinterested in doing what's 'nice'. How about telephone calls? They're cheaper than ever! How about computers? Also, cheaper than ever. Have you priced data storage hard-drives lately? It's a hundredth or a thousandth of the price it was only a few years ago. Why? because the costs have come down and the manufacturers are passing the savings on, the wholesalers and the retailers do to, all down the line to us, the purchasing public.

    The only reason this HST in BC is hated is because of Campbell. There's no logic. The vast majority of people do not clearly understand the HST. Even Tieleman wrote here that it would cost him extra on his commercial rent, which is not the case if he is registered and files for ITCs. It'll blow over in a short time.

  • jim1966

    1 year ago

    Re: HST Rebates

    I've noticed that some folks here keep coming back to mention the HST rebates. Perhaps before you go on any further you should be made aware of some interesting facts. In March 2010, the BC Liberals cut benefits for those most in need, this cost although not much to the average person was about $240.00 per year. The current HST rebate amount varies but let say for discussions sake that the example here is a single individual with no dependents, facing that cut in March the HST rebate over the entire year is about $230.00 (paid out 4 times per year alongside the GST/Carbon Tax rebates). The balance sheet just does not add up and neither does the HST rebate argument. Hansen tells everyone all the time about how the HST will affect low income people. Wrong, why?, The HST does not even come close to returning what was cut and low income people are still left behind. So, by reducing resources and claiming the HST will help people or at best put those people on even footing is a farce. Although some industries will welcome the HST and why wouldn't they after all the tax has now been shifted to the average person.Bottom line is that the BC Liberals LIED and continue to LIE about the entire implementation of this tax, Gordo has even admitted this on a local news program during a recent interview, CBC I believe did the interview late last week, from Manitoba at the conference. Also please don't assume anything about the public forgetting or getting over the HST, they will not, it's gone way past that. As a business person you should know that even your business is not safe from downward spiraling sales. Will you pass on the savings you receive to your customers, I doubt it, as most business are in business to make a profit and not lose out. Thereby proving the BC Liberals incorrect. Arrogance, deception and lying are what the majority of voters are upset about.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    jim

    "...most business are in business to make a profit and not lose out."

    Exactly. If the competition lowers prices due to lower costs then any business that wants to keep making profits and stay in business will match those prices of their competitors - and lower their prices too.

    Lower prices for all.

    Thanks Jim.

    QED

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