An omission on my part. That

An omission on my part. That slogan belongs to the Olympics Resistance Network.

Only Elite Benefit

There are many, many more people and groups who have deep concerns about the Olympics. Of course, no discussion is complete without reference to UBC Prof. Chris Shaw, author of the explosive book Five Ring Circus which every single BC citizen should read.
http://www.newsociety.com/bookid/3995

"A book where disturbing questions come to light:

Why does the IOC pay no taxes?
Who are the real estate developers behind the Vancouver bid?
Why are mega projects paid for with tax dollars?
What are the true costs of the Games?

"The Olympic Games, once considered the pinnacle of athleticism and fair play, have become a cesspool of greed, backroom deals and the wholesale trampling of civil liberties. In Vancouver, preparations for the 2010 Games have had a substantial negative impact on the environment and has resulted in the "economic cleansing" of the poor and homeless."

"This book is a cautionary tale for future Olympic bid cities, and will appeal to those concerned about the effects of globalization on many aspects of life."

David Eby of the BC Civil LIberties Association has also courageously stood up to the corporate machinations behind the IOC and VANOC.

It is SO plain to everyone except the Olympic cheerleaders how BC's Olympics perfectly symbolizes the anti democratic nature of our current government.

The more people who speak out, the better. It is one step closer to regaining a civil society. But we will need help from every sector of society if we want to succeed.

Great coverage.

This Just In

And while we're on the topic...see the latest article from the UK:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/31/vancouver-winter-olympics-police

" "The Bailout Games" have already been labelled a staggering financial disaster. While the complete costs are still unknown, the Vancouver and British Columbian governments have hinted at what's to come by cancelling 2400 surgeries, laying off 233 government employees, 800 teachers and recommending the closure of 14 schools. It might be enough to make one cynical, but luckily every inch of the city is now coated with advertisements that feature smiley people enjoying the products of the event's gracious sponsors."

giant rings everywhere

Those giant rings they seem to have strewn the entire landscape with are a natural target for rolls of toilet paper. I wonder if the world will be treated to the sight of Canadian teenagers being shot by police for TPing them? Go fascist lemmings, GO!

Check the video clip and see

Check the video clip and see what the First Nations and others benefits are.

http://www.olympic.org/

Jeffery J. asks, Why does the IOC pay no taxes?
The IOC is a Swiss based sports federation. Is Jeffery concerned that taxes are not being paid in Lausanne? I expect the IOC pays property taxes and the employees pay Swiss income taxes. Do Federations and Associations in Switzerland pay taxes? Does the Canadian Hockey Association pay taxes?

Details of the Vancouver bid are here:
http://www.gamesbids.com/english/bids/vancouver.shtml

The NDP were in power at the start and the the Liberals followed. Successive Canadian governments have continued support and Vancouver citizens confirmed support in a referendum. It's difficult to see who any of this, (quote) "... symbolizes the anti democratic nature of our current government." It looks like the complete opposite!

"Why are mega projects paid for with tax dollars?"
What are you talking about? Are you talking about the Richmond Oval? This is a multi-use sports and fitness and community centre paid for by Richmond taxpayers, just like any community centre. Community centres in Vancouver are paid for by Vancouver taxpayers. The Vancouver Olympic Centre in Hillside Park is run by the Vancouver Parks Board. It was before and will be after the Olympics. Taxpayers fund sports centres. Nothing new there.

As for the Canada Line; that's a transit system that will be there for decades, as will the improved road to Whistler. If these considered mega-projects, then of course roads and transit are pain for with taxes.

The Convention Centre will also be there decades and again, yes, convention centres tend to be owned by municipalities so they are built with taxes.

The more people who speak out, the better.

and the next three generations of

working people in Vancouver will have their lives blighted by paying for it all.

For the rich, by the rich and always the rich.

As I understand it all

As I understand it all members of the IOC have diplomatic status and travel with diplomatic passports and thus the International Olypmic Federation is like the UN; they pay no taxes.

Blighted Lives

The lives of the residents of this province have been systematically "Blighted" by degree...more and more deeply...for every year Gordon Campbell has been our Premier. We are the problem. His win of the last election confirms that our social conscience in held in our wallet. Yes...we are outraged now...because we know we will pay and pay for a hundred years for the Olympic fiasco. However...our poor and especially our poor children...have been sacrificed on the almighty alter of capitalism for the duration of this government!

It's just me

to realisticman,
I'm truly glad that you want more people to speak out and that is exactly why I am here.. to see what protest that I can support. Please do try not to feel so lonely... you could start with actually researching your data instead of being spoonfed from the olympics propaganda machine. Personally I'd feel dirty going to that website you mention, having still vivid memory of those 'Authentic First Nations' mementos being made in China etc, or the real sweaters being offered for $200 while VANOC opted instead to have them made in China for sale price of $300 +. Anything to make a buck from those tourists.

Well enough of that. Where do I, as some ordinary citizen, come out to show some support for the protestors. I've been wearing my fingers down to the bone now for a couple of years commenting on this board or that board.
I don't think you guys really have a clue as to how many people are angry and sickened by this whole corrupt scam. If nothing else, do know that there are people that are praying for your safety as you show the world that all Canadians are not really that apathetic. Hopefully, between us all, we can also put a stop to future olympics and instead make things better for the poor and the sick in our society.

This now in

One more link to what what the world is thinking

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/dave_zirin/01/25/vancouver/

A Guenther

"Personally I'd feel dirty going to that website ..."

Perhaps you might not become too soiled if you visit this First Nation's web site:

http://www.fourhostfirstnations.com/

Do you expect the next Olympics in London will be canceled? How about Rio? London needs 70,000 volunteers if you're up for it.

http://www.london2012.com/

How about a deal

I would happily give all the olympic game benefits that might come my way to Realisticman if he would only agree to pay all my tax increases resulting from the 14 day extravaganza. I think that is a deal most people outside of Vancouver and Whistler would gladly make. Alas all their rhetoric is just empty words.

The only interesting and important question that should be asked

is:

What made a majority of Vancouverites vote for this enterprise? if there is no attempt to answer that question and no ideas as to how we could have convinced a majority to vote against, I don't see anything left to discuss.

they were lied to?

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/news-centre/newsid=29174.html

Quite, Dorothy

Democracy.

Canadian Pride

My oh my, the left wing wingnuts are out today hummm. What the hell is the matter with you people. Where is your Pride. Instead of complaining about everything, how about just once standing up and cheering for Canada.

The Majority "DID" vote for hosting the Olympics, so get over it people.

Instead, you agree with a protester who is to ashamed to show their faces. As the picture accompaining this article shows, they have to hide their faces and wear a balaclava. Hide in the shadows and make your little protest.

Me, i will be cheering for Canada.... for all our athletes. Not moaning and bellyaching. For gods sake people. Show some pride.

Thank God Calgary didn't show that kind of attitude in 1988. Instead, they showed how its done.

And if you don't want to contribute $300.00 for a Canadian Jersey to support your "ELITE CAPITALISTS" ,then by all means, don't buy one. No-one is twisting your arms here. Keep your money in your pocket. But then you would have nothing to complain about.

Pride please people. PRIDE

quite, rman...

democracy. A functioning democracy requires dissent as a primary component - it simply cannot function without opposition and indeed, becomes something else.I would go even further, in fact - the culture of passive agreement endangers a democracy to no end. Think of those who warned of the potential for financial crisis and were dismissed as negative thinkers...
It is clear that the majority of British Columbians do not support the Olympics, but whether majority or minority,those who point out the downsides and the seamy undersides of political decisions are to be admired, not villified.Without them, we would live under a tyranny.

rah rah...........rah.... sure

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/2010wintergames/Torch+brings+little+jobless+mill+workers/2511720/story.html

my pride is my integrity

to Steppeup,
You are so right about Calgary showing how it is done. I was living in Calgary during the 88 olympics, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with having a crystal ball about the recession. It does however have everything to do with Vancouver freely and recklessly spending money that could have been spent in so many other constructive ways. You do realize that the latest tally is almost $7 billion dollars spent with finally an acknowledgement that only $1 billion is expected in return.

The facts are that Calgary built ONE new venue, it put laws in place well before the games to prevent gouging by landlords, it had ALL of it's volunteers 2 years before the games who worked tirelessly to help bring them off successfully, I don't recall a single road closure and I worked and drove downtown. I highly doubt those volunteers had to buy their own outfits after the games and they were a heck of a lot nicer and better quality than the China made overalls in 2010. The games in Calgary were AS IS and came off flawlessly, the homeless panhandled and came to free pancake breakfasts and came to the outside entertainment which was all over the place. The tourists got a taste of the true spirit of Calgary and enjoyed themselves.

What are they going to experience in Vancouver?

Majority....?

Depends what you mean by Vancouverites. The referendum held by the city did little to measure public opinion across the entire area of the Lower Mainland impacted by the games. And given the fact that the entire province is on the hook for many of the bills, I wouldn't infer anything like 'majority' support from that feeble poll.

Regarding pride Steppup....

....I'd be a helluva lot more proud if we'd passed on the games and put 7 billion into helping those who really need it.

One more thing

I do understand about some people's insistence to go to second rate free entertainment in order to try and get a return on the $billions they will be paying back for at least the next 40 years, but do you know that there are still at least a couple of tons of ammonium nitrate (preferred ingredient for terrorist bombs) missing from a Kinder Morgan shipment to a storage area in Surrey last summer? I am not trying to scare anybody but it's where crowds gather that people are most vulnerable. While the venues themselves will be heavily guarded, what protection are they giving everyday citizens at, for example, the Richmond Ozone?
Like I said, the ammonium nitrate was missing last summer with Kinder Morgan not even contacting the RCMP till just before Christmas. CTV found out and reported on it in January with poo poos from VANOC and how there was not going to be a terrorist attack during the games. 5 hours after the broadcast by ctv, Kinder Morgan announced that it was an accounting error. A week or so later the RCMP stated in a third news piece that the ammonium nitrate had NOT been accounted for and was still missing. A few days later there was word up from the US that an attack on our transportation system among other was a possibility. Look up archives at ctvbc.ca to verify what I am saying ... type ammonium nitrate into the search area.

Something to think about and entirely your decision but, standing in the pouring rain in the middle of a muddy field is one thing, while risking your life through the possibility of something really terrible happening is another.

Pride Steppeup?

I should be proud that we spent $7 billion on a 14 day party? I should be proud that the whole party is cloaked in secret and phoney accounting? I should be proud that the money almost all lost and I will be paying for it for the next decade? I should be proud of such foolish , reckless spending? I should be proud that we still have people living in poverty while a few Vancouver and Whistler business receive this subsidy at our expense? Yeah sure. What people take pride in often shows just how little they think.

Who Are the 2010 Protesters?...

Am Johal was the campaign manager for Vancouver Centre's federal NDP candidate Michael Byers in 2008. Byers finished in 3rd place. The NDP will likely 'wear' any public angst about any militant protestors.

As for BC public opinion (what matters most), only '15%' of BC'ers 'strongly support' protests against the 2010 games. Another '15%' 'moderately support' protests against the 2010 games. Not much public support there.

http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2010.01.21_Olympics_CAN.pdf

And frankly, with 50,000 - 100,000 people milling about the downtown core enjoying the Olympic festivities, any protesters might be concerned about their own security as these throngs of people will not enjoy their festivities being disrupted.

As for these 2010 protesters many sure are odd ducks:

http://www2.canada.com/vancouvercourier/news/story.html?id=0252c6ee-2eec-40e4-a551-9b46298c18de

BTW, Jeffrey J., you should be a little more transparent about that "Guardian" article that you posted. The author is actually Douglas Haddow who a Vancouver-based writer and creative consultant. He has a blog (pblks.com)

His article reads more like an opinion piece on a blog than high-quality reporting.

And here is his outlook on life:

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/Douglas+Haddow

Wonderful!

His last article for the Guardian was entitled "Kick a Ginger Day"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/08/gingers-prejudice-redheads-bigotry

Let the Games begin!

Vivian Lea

Nothing wrong with dissent, we have it but there's a big difference between criticism and dissent and baloney. Many First Nations people are enthusiastic about the Olympics and happy to give interviews to express how their involvement has and will further, improve their lives.

Dissent as a standard requirement that manifests itself by refuting facts is simply petulance.

Steppeup blathered ...

What the hell is the matter with you people.

Well, for one thing, a very large number of Canadians, coast to coast, are quite concerned that the BC Olympics event is a major and completely unnecessary drain on the financial well being of the people of the province, and will lead to even more serious fiscal problems in the future for all but the wealthy.

Of course your question is disingenuous and you real have no interest whatsoever in finding a valid answer. Many folks here have posted quite clear points on the negative aspects of the Olympics, yet you continue to dismiss the concerns of a large group of Canadian citizens, who, like you, particpate in this democracy. And a fundamental, and critically important part of the democratic process is to stand up and say NO when those in power abuse that power.

Where is your Pride.

Pride in what? The marginalisation of the poor? The constraints placed upon the fair exercise of our democratic franchise? The more than doubling of homeless people in Vancouver since Campbell came into power? The endless list of Campbell's and Harper's abuse of power and priviledge? A billion dollar security budget aimed at reinforcing the right to profiteering by major corporations? Pride in what?

Instead of complaining about everything, how about just once standing up and cheering for Canada.

The very presence of these complaints points quite specifically to the fact that politically and socially active Canadians are in fact vey proud of this country and take great exception to people like Gordon Campbell and Steven Harper who are doing their utmost to turn us into a carbon copy of that vast machine of greed to the south.

Steppeup, as you have shown on a number of previous occasions, you quite thoroughly fail to understand one of the primary functions of democracy: The fundamental right and requirement to let our leaders know when they overstep the bounds of their rights, responsibilities, and the limits and constraints of power in favour of corporations and their wealthy supporters over that of the majority of Canadian citizens.

hmmm...

to realisticman,
First Nations could have sued the butts off IOC and VANOC for infringement of their intellectual property, their sweaters, etc, sued them for made in China garbage which was passed off as genuine First Nations merchandise.
Instead they got wind farms in the Queen Charlottes in exchange for a name change and their silence during the games. In fact, they have been so bamboozled, they are giving happy happy interviews to the international media. I can't wait to see those same people in a year or two to ask them just how much this sham of the games has really improved their lives.
I truly hope I'm wrong.

Good ole Campbell liberals so busy peddling hype.

As long as they can get everyone else to pay for their wasteful spending they feel it is worthwhile. No one ever asked in any poll whether BC'ers think that billions of dollars of spending for 14 days is a good use of the taxpayer's dollars. Oh yeah a few people in Vancouver got to vote based on a lot of false information but nobody in the rest of the Province where incidentally the economy is in worse shape. Now the very same taxpayer being hosed to pay for all this waste is paying for the security to prevent them from protesting. Does all this not seem so typical of the fascist states. To make matter worse you have the liberal government trolls on this site telling the rest of us that we are a bunch of left wingnuts, we should not only suck it up but we should cheer and wave our red mitted hands like all those mindless cheering just because some torch bearer is running around the province.

Reminds me of the great parades in Nazi Germany and all the mindless cheering all the while the country was headed to the abyss. Yeah it makes a lot of sense.

Security for what?

SicPreFix
"A billion dollar security budget aimed at reinforcing the right to profiteering by major corporations?"

Ever since the Munich terrorist attack international event organizers are obliged to protect the athletes. The security has nothing to do with anything corporate, if it did we'd have F18s, ships and helicopters buzzing around all day, every day. The vast majority of this budget will be spent by the federal government on federal military and police operations. The small amount of the budget that will be spent on police will be partially recovered, because police, just like their military soul-mates, pay taxes. Another big chunk of this money will be spent in BC on food and supplies, etc.

Olympic watchers may be pleased to hear that both the US and the Canadian groundhogs today predicted 6 more weeks of winter. Global Warmistas might be saddened.

Disliking the protesters makes me a Gordo Lieberal?

Like questioning native claims makes me racist, RIGHT?
So doubting the sincerity of certain "activists" is not "allowed" by the socially conscious pontificators ? But everyone ELSE is somehow answerable? Go figure.
It's really too bad that some people are in their own little selective world and do not allow reality to actually penetrate their personal information zone.
Protest all you like, dig up the hidden information, inform the public, disrupt the pre-game publicity functions(to get free media attention), BUT STOP when this thing gets underway. What's done is done. It's HERE. The disruptions and disturbances will be a distraction to PUBLIC SAFETY, which is most important during an event that is very likely a target for terrorism. THERE ARE several very credible threats of major terror plots aimed at these games. NO ONE has "the right" to ignore this fact, just to get their "message" out. This is a huge event, police, military and intelligence agencies have a huge job to protect(not "The Games", but)all of the humanity involved.

realisticman ...

Ever since the Munich terrorist attack....

Okay, if true then fair point to you.

Nonetheless, I feel my other points, and certainly many of the points of many of the so-called anti-Olympic people all across this once fair country are valid especially in regard to the abuses of political and corporate power that are clear and present in this ludicrous sports spectacle.

flaming underpants now unavailable

That's right, some spook dining on our dime got the news clip of the 1956 Olympic torch relay prank replaced with the words "video unavailable", Crikeymedia, the poster, is now listed as "account suspended". VANOC meets Youtube?

It's fun to watch the dupes trotting around with giant doobies, but the Australian joke of getting the mayor to hold up a table leg, with underpants flaming in a plum pudding tin nailed to the top of it, still wins my pint. They actually let him get on with his Olympic blither speech before telling him the real torch had yet to arrive.

Barry Larkin, the student who handed the table leg up to the mayor, is a veterinarian in rural Australia.

For all the details wiki Larkin.

Maybe it wasn't the anti-Hitler touch this time ---flaming underpants are considered so much hotter now. One might even suggest some of the expensive "security" types can't tell a plum pudding tin from a passenger jet.

cboo44, your own selective world has intruded into mine.

Therein lies the problem. None of this debate is new. The information/concern has been around for a long time and you and "your selective world" chose to ignore it. Now you expect everyone to "accept" your ignorance of the reality. Wow! This is for you.

BC Government today, in response to public concern about the olympic debt, responded with an announcement that they will be sending out 2 million red olympic condoms to BC taxpayers. It seems the taxpayers have been demanding protection when being screwed.

Stolen Native Land

We the people are behind the slogan "Stolen Native Land". All of BC is still considered unceded territory. meaning that no treaties had been signed with the west coast first people. Unlike the rest of Turtle Island where the treaties have been signed off years ago. The AFN is suppose to represent all FN but has forgotten about the urban FN community. If you know the west coast territories you will see that there are more then just four nations. We are many nations with many different language dialects, cultural values.

Welcome to The New Resistance...

My best wishes to you all, brothers, sisters and comrades, for the mounting of a successful resistance. This country, this province and this City desperately need what you all represent. Which is, of course, the signal rising of a new time and generation of dissent, and resistance to the predations of capitalism.

Stay safe though... which doesn't mean timid. We are just at the beginning of this new time of resistance leading to transformation, and you will all be needed later on, when the struggle becomes even sharper.

Resistance is not futile. Only passivity is.

Power to the people!!! True Democrcy, Equality, Land and Dignity to Our Aboriginal Peoples, Food and Shelter! Overthrow the Ruling Class and Their Servant State!

Referendum

Less than 135.000 Vancouverites voted in the 2010 referendum. 64% voted for the games.

One glaring, unanswered, question is, if they had been told that security would cost $1 billion, the VTCC would go $400 million over budget, the Olympic Line demonstration project would cost $8 million dollars (no equipment included) for a 5 minute, 2km, ride, that the $2 billion dollar Canada Line would have stations too small to accommodate much future increase in traffic without major renovations, that the proposed tunneling would unilaterally be switched to cut and cover causing huge disruption and many business failures and that there was a risk of the Athletes' Village project becoming a financial burden for Vancouver, would those 86,000 people who voted 'yes' still have voted in favour of the games? I didn't have this information either but I had very serious misgivings. I voted, and I voted 'no'.

Accusing critics of the Olympics of not being proud is a puerile tactic. Proud citizens stand up for what they believe is right.

We are in the middle of this financial cataclysm in part because the 'rah, rah, contingent' take everything they're spoon fed, by those who stand to profit most from the Olympics, as the gospel truth.

is the world fooled?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/02/2010-olympics-no-changema_n_445991.html

It is hard to understand...

how so many can support so much for so little. Of course a lot of it has to do with patriotism which Oscar Wilde accurately called the "virtue of the vicious'.
As for other games -
Montreal, 1976, lost over $1 billion but the Mayor of Montreal said before the games, ‘the Olympics could no more lose money than a man could have a baby’.
Lake Placid, New York, 1980, officially lost $11 million.
Moscow, summer games, 1980, lost about 160 million Rubles but more interesting is that 62 countries, including the United States, Canada, West Germany, Japan, and Israel, boycotted the Olympics in Moscow because the previous year the Soviet Union had invaded Afghanistan.
Los Angles, 1984, hard to tell because the official 800 page report doesn’t make the costs obvious but they do tell you that it cost $142,857 for security which doesn’t sound too bad, except, that was the security cost PER athlete. Interestingly not a single member of ‘The Free World’ boycotted these games, even though the United States had invaded Grenada and overthrown its government in 1983.
Calgary, 1988, made a profit of $150 million unless you look at the city audit, that the Canadian press refused to publicized, and then the taxpayers forked out $461 million plus other costs.
Barcelona, 1992, lost an estimated $1.4 billion.
Atlanta, 1996, not sure how this worked out but the guys doing the books showed a $10 million profit which neglected to account for over $1 billion in tax dollars and also failed to explain why citizens are still paying an Olympic premium on various taxes.
Sydney, 2000, the games would be self-financing said the politicians, unlike our Premier they didn’t have the nerve to say they would make $10 billion in profit. The Auditor General for New South Wales said they lost $2.3 billion, a slight discrepancy.
Salt Lake City, 2002, spent $817,000 for each athlete who competed or to put it another way $114 million per day. These are the official numbers but once again they illustrate how crazy the games have become everywhere. They don’t include the over $500,000 that Salt Lake City Olympic officials spent bribing members of the International Olympic Committee to get the games in the first place. After the games Salt Lake City had to lay-off employees to make up for a $155 million shortfall.
Greece, 2004, lost a massive amount of money, in part because they posted 40,000 troops on their northern border to make sure no one got into the games for free. Costs soared from an estimated €2.3 billion to an estimated €10 billion.
Torino, Italy, 2006, it is difficult to find the numbers when accurate costs are hidden but in 2005 steps were taken to start bankruptcy proceedings for the 2006 games.

The Majority "DID" vote for

The Majority "DID" vote for hosting the Olympics, so get over it people.
===========

No they did not. The majority were not even allowed to vote, only those within the city limits of Vancouver. If the rest of the Lower Mainland or province were allowed to of voted the outcome (if you believe the polling at the time) would of been different.

Were all paying for it, so we all should of voted on it. As far as I am concerned, only Vancouver could vote so only the city of Vancouver and not the rest of us should foot the bill 100%.

Coke is the drink of the death squads

The chorus of this David Rovics song feels good when I see all the signs, when I've had enough red and white.

The real costs should also

The real costs should also include what the citizens have to pay for in may other ways, over and above from taxes stolen to pay for the show.

Expo 86 cost probably billions for the people of the Interior, with businesses losing money because nobody came in 6 summer months and the locals going to Vancouver to see the show. It cost me $5,000 yet I haven't been near the damn thing.

Now schools will be closed all over BC and little kids forced on the buses for hours every day for years.

Where are the hidden costs accounted? Not only for the Olympic racket, but right across the board, for the rest of the economic idiocies of this government, forcing people to pay through the nose into the pockets of the rulers of he world.

Ed Deak.

Revealing

The educational part of this thread has been the revelation that the "No Olympics on Stolen Native Land" slogan of the Olympic Resistance Movement (a non-native group) defines "stolen native land" as the entire province. So really, the objection isn't just to the Olympics--it's to any activity at all. Hypothetically it could be "No new Prince George post office on stolen native land;" or "No new traffic light in Kitimat on stolen native land:" etc.

Let the games begin - or not

It truly amazes me how gullible people are and how easy they can be manipulated. The history of the games show year after year that it is a financial scam of the taxpayers. Yet no one – I mean not one single person or organization - has taken the organizers and the government to court for mismanaging public money and money they cannot account for. If I would budget my finances this way I could probably have a castle somewhere in BC but more likely would go to jail for cheating.

It is not by accident that people who have done their due diligence in researching their facts ask these questions –Why does the IOC pay no taxes? Who are the real estate developers behind the Vancouver bid? Why are mega projects paid for with tax dollars? What are the true costs of the Games?

And another thing… I would like to know how much money do sponsors make? Really? Is it a flop for them too? Do they pay for years and years to recover their cost? I don’t think they would sponsor if there is no financial gain for them. And how come that they can make money on an event that is going to bankrupt a generation of people and their society for years to come! How can they sleep at night? Why are we as a society allow such things? Put ourselves into billion dollars of debt and cheer the corporates as they scam as all. This is no different than in the medieval times where the poor was squashed by their kings, except the year is now 2010. The kings are called politicians and the poor are called tax payers.

Olympics in the last 15 years are not for the athletes. It is about real estate development. Athletes are just the puppets. Who in the right mind wants to bring a winter Olympics to the North Shore Mountains. It never had a solid history of strong winter. I feel sorry for the athletes for skiing and snowboarding in that shit and landing on hay. Hahaha – absolutely a joke.

No one thinks about the athletes and the conditions they need for their sports. Choosing a city that has winter is not difficult – but those cities already has their infrastructure so IOC disregard them because they can’t make money of them.

I feel and hope that the Olympics in Vancouver will be an eye opener for the world. Those who say ‘Don’t you want to be proud’ are idiots. I want to be proud of my cities not because of the Olympics but because I live in a city that supports democracy, freedom of speech, health, education and uplifts the poor instead of stepping on them even more.

And…that mural on Molson’s wall is a joke – the guy looks like he is having a hard time to pass his dinner from last night – I mean what’s with that straining smile?

How do you pull off the biggest financial scam on the world? You organize an Olympics.

The Rent A Mob

So, yes, the rent-a-mob CAVE people (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) will be on their little corner of turf at the art gallery with tens of thousands of jovial people milling around them while they tell us of the need to overthrow capitalism. I am sure they will make an enormous impact in the great scheme of things and pronounce themselves worthy Revolutionary Fighters. Then they will go home to their Revolutionary Abodes in Kits that their Capitalist Pig Parents Pay For.

Yawnnnnn, what else is new?

Steppeup

"Instead, you agree with a protester who is to ashamed to show their faces. As the picture accompaining this article shows, they have to hide their faces and wear a balaclava. Hide in the shadows and make your little protest."

What a funny thing for a person posting anonymously to say.

If you're so proud of the Olympics and so disgusted by those that hide their faces by all means use your real name.

Dorothy - The Vancouver referendum

The Vancouver referendum was a joke because of our pathetic referendum regulations in Vancouver. They are as pathetic as the rules around civic campaign funding and disclosure.

The YES side had paid staffers holding rallies and distributing promotional swag. The only figure I ever saw/heard suggested parties unknown put up half a million dollars.

By contrast, the NO campaign was seven people who pooled money to buy one billboard ad, maximum budget, $1,000.

This is all representative of our democratic deficit!

Don't forget

Don't forget the people who's employers are telling them to stay home for two weeks. There are people out there who are unwillingly forfeiting two weeks pay!

VivianLea

Don't forget North East coal. People who questioned that were dismissed as naysayers. The project was a publicly funded failure. Is history repeating itself? According to figures, the costs of the Games have gone up 10 times the original estimates, while the forecast benefits have dropped from $10 billion to $1 billion.

You don't have to have a PhD in economics to know those numbers sound pretty bad.

Olympics Fan I am!!

I intend to watch our Canadian athletes strive their mightiest to win medals for Canada. I intend to cheer their efforts.
I will not support the protesters who essentially want their needs coddled to.
I will congratulate the organizers if the games come off well and I intend to castigate them if things get fu---- up because they failed to do things right..

Dorothy

Perhaps a majority didn't vote for the Olympics -- just as a majority didn't vote for Harper & Co.

Olympics: The Fake Protest Issue

The facts remain that the Olympics themselves are just a red herring for the protesters. No one is there to exclusively protest the Olympics...they simply use it as a stage for their pet causes. Chris Shaw says himself that he's only using the Olympics to resurrect the anti-globalization movement. Even if he fails, he's managed to line his own pockets in the meantime and will dine for the next few Olympics, being feted by academic anarchists in London and Rio...nice gig for a contrarian.

Luke S

Yep! And most of those BC'ers didn't bother to vote in the last election....so their opinion ain't worth bumpkus.

Who are the protestors?

They are our family members, neighbors, friends, coworkers, and teachers who have seen passed the dollar signs and looking to the future. They are protesters who have educated themselves with the same info that British Columbian have access to too. They have researched the issues and carry about our community and have chosen to speak out. Unfortunately though main stream society tends to frown on the truth coming out and belittles anyone who does not tow the main line of news coming out from mainstream. So it is seen a a negative to be a protester because it is a negative to tell the truth or to exercise our democratic right to freedom of speech. Protesters have learned along time ago that what captures media attention is not the truth but antics of unusual behaviors that grab the media's attention. This is where provocateurs seize the opportunity to come in a re havoc amongst a group of people who just want to live in a better world. One where there would be no need to protest, deal with poverty issues, health care, lack of accessibility to education and yes even sports.

Deficits both there and there...

"This is all representative of our democratic deficit!"

Actually, that's not what democratic deficit means. It means that important decisions that rightfully belong in the realm of politics get made elsehwere, by people without a mandate given by the electorate, so that voters do not have input into such decisions. representative democracy is an attempt to compromise between this going all the way, and simple practicality. The ideal would be direct democracy, referendum on everything from the size and shape of garbage cans to the city charter itself, if we are talking about a city. We are somewhere in between, electing representatives who will then, we hope, make the decisions in the general direction of what we see as being the right way of things.

Democratic deficit on a serious scale happens when therepresentatives either totally fail to follow what they were elected based on, or they delegate the decisions to outside parties.

But here we have an issue, where it actually was laid in the hands of the city's population to decide. I don't care how many rallies the proponents held, or how pitiful the opponent campaign was. I don't think people with a ballot in their hand can abdicate responsibility for gaining their own knowledge of the issues and acquiring some astuteness that can cut the proverbial despite the campaigning, which will always be in the picture.

I voted agaisnt the olympics, because I detest the vibes the proponents send out. I don't like their kind and never have, and I wouldn't buy a shoelace from any of them, much less the future lot of my city. I cannot help those who are too blind to draw such distinctions on their own. But I sure would like to know what makes them tick, what they believed they were buying, if not a cat in a sack.

Now that we are stuck with the liability, I don't see much point in doing other than whatever will serve to minimize the damage. I would also like to know what protesters at this stage think to achieve, as the train has left the station.

guess we'll be seeing a driving protest

too:

http://www.vancouversun.com/Vancouver+drivers+urged+forgo+cars+when+viaducts+close+this+week/2514368/story.html

People who object to being robbed by their own "government" might just decide to take their cars for long, slow pleasure cruises downtown so they can admire where all their money went.

May as well, that's all the satsifaction they'll get.

The problem with the

The problem with the protestors is they don't believe in democracy. They believe in their own viewpoint and only their own viewpoint. It doesn't matter to them that both major parties supported the olympics, as well as a democratically elected mayor, prime minister, mps, and pretty much any elected official in the province. They will try to destroy as much of our investment as possible to prove a point. As an aside, the 7 billion figure is made up entirely. Unless you don't want to invest in public transportation and public sports facilities.

vancurber

There's a tendency among you pro-Games people to downplay the amount of money various levels of government have spent on it.

The fact is when people got upset over the Sea to Sky and the Canada Line and the Convention centre your side claimed we needed that for the Olympics. Now you claim they have nothing to do with the Olympics. How convenient.

As for the protesters not believing in democracy, what could be more democratic than making one's voice heard regarding a disagreement with a government decision?

Good to see such fine young people!

I have met some of the ORN and NO2010 people. And fine young people they are! Thankfully these young folks have the sense and the courage to stand up to the sociopaths who have foisted this corporate racket upon us. And when the Owe-lympics are over, these same young people will form an experienced cadre of organizers for the future tasks at hand.

the problem with the anti-democratic

mindless cheerleaders is that they think all the rest of the populace is as stupid as themselves and is incapable of seeing the manipulation, the fraud and the outright cheating that manufactured a vote as well as stole an election.

Frank...

Hmmmm ... put it this way... on the evening of the Opening Ceremonies about 60,000 people will be attending BC Place Stadium including moi. ;)

At least another 50,000 - 100,000+ will be milling around Vancouver's downtown core... pedestrian only Robson Street, Granville St. - all over - including the national pavillions situate all over the downtown core as well as False Creek watching the event live on big screens(as well as billions on tv).

And these folks will be in a very festive mood. Now you can head on down there and wear a bandana and hold up a protest sign but, hell, I certainly wouldn't feel safe under those circumstances. Perhaps you would, but not moi. Definitely an intimidating environment. :D

BTW, I'm gonna be frequently attending Sachsen Haus at the site of the Vancouver Rowing Club in Stanley Park. Once you feel the 'mood', I'd certainly like to buy ya a shot of schnapps. Of course, ya still might not like the background Oompapa music. :D

Luke S

As scary as it would be to meet actual people that believe luge racing is more important than child poverty I doubt I'd feel intimidated. Nor I imagine would protesters find luge enthusiasts scary either.

I haven't heard a good oompapa band since Kids in the Hall went off the air.

Vancurber says

"Unless you don't want to invest in public transportation and public sports facilities."

This the dichotomy facing the CAVE (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) dwellers. They say they want the government to run everything, they also say that no government money should go into public transportation or sports and community facilities. At least that's what they seem to be saying. Maybe they've tipped over the left end and have popped up on the other side and now they want all public transport and community centres to be built and run by the private sector.

Frank. As the producer of Slumdog said, there's no point in giving them money because it's only education that can help. Throwing money at your pet peeve is an elitist cop-out. What you have to do is make them stay in school.

Frank

Have you been protesting the Olympics up till now?"

Yes, even way back when it was an NDP idea. It WAS a BAD idea. We didn't need them. Not then, not now. But they are here. Will further protest make everything go away? So, like me, you are not getting on the bandwagon? Fine and everyone's individual choice. BUT,(back to my point)it is still not acceptable to disrupt and divert public safety away from their task to protect the public.
Sometimes people just have to grow up.

Frank...

I always understand where you come from but you should also think a bit "outside the box".

We heard the same about Expo '86. But in this instance, BC's tourism industry will receive "$billions$" in advertising exposure all over the world. You just can't buy that stuff.

Now, you may wanna head on down to Salt Lake City after their similar Olympic exposure, but not me. BC, however, is a different kinda place, n'est pas?

Certainly BC's world exposure will provide $billions$ in future tourism revenue, which might not otherwise be had. Additional monies into the tourism business, additional monies into government coffers... I trust that you get my drift. ;)

If you dine with the rich

Again I will post this comment. I came across this quote from “Hope” a book by Len Deighton, "If you dine with the rich, you wind up paying the bill." I believe he caught the spirit of the games.

And here is an article about the costs of the Olympics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/01/AR2009100103891.html

Luke S

"We heard the same about Expo '86"

The late 1980's saw a rebound in growth rates after the disastrous early 80's. A rebound that was expected after all that pent-up demand. A rebound that many of your right-wing friends say will happen here again after the last couple of terrible years.

You have posted here many times telling me the 1990s were terrible. Do you not contradict yourself by saying Expo 86 was a huge boon for the provincial economy in the years after?

As for your expected tourism revenue, pre-game tourism has been quite lacking and nowhere near the estimates provided by Liberal donors. No one believes its all going to start happening in March.

What's the point?

Over 10 million people worldwide protested against the George II and the invasion of Iraq. What good did it do?

another take on the same old sham

I thought it might be worthwhile to give you this comment which was very recently posted at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/31/vancouver-winter-olympics-police?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments?showCommentBox=true

ej5155 wrote:
As a former Canadian national athlete, who has participated at the olympic, commonwealth and pan am level...the olympics are a very overrated event...they are a cash grab for large corporations and old blue bloods sitting in their Belgian homes collecting a fraction of a penny they still inherit from the building of such objects as the Golden Gate bridge in San Francisco. Being a national athlete for the most part is like building your life up to a lie. It's like going to war (obviously without the killing, unless you play football for Columbia) and finding out it was all for not, even if you won or not...and I've done both. Most athletes after their careers finally figure out that it's just being in shape and working with others that count. The athletes who still revel in their glory days are the ones who never moved on to anything because they don't have much going for them. Don't get me wrong, I love sports, I love seeing the human physique at it's ultimate...but in this day and age with what I know (and what people should know), it's old news...it's time to move past. People should concentrate on maintaining their own personal health, not because they see some athletes on TV who where brought to you by (corporate name goes here), but because they want to. Turn off the TV, put down the hamburgers, get off your asses. Aside from rambling on about the nature of the games...Vancouver has now become one of the most expensive places to live in the world...and you don't get much in return...with the olympics in town, a lot of people are being put out of work from the downtown core...these are professionals not hamburger flippers, people who have over inflated mortgages for their postage stamp lots...oh yeeah and there's no snow. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention most Canadian athletes live under the poverty line...what a joke.

COTA study...

A COTA study (a BC-based advocacy organization for tourism operators) in 2008 found that 47% of small and medium-sized tourism operations had NO access to outside funding. Since these SMEs make up 95% of the tourism operators in BC, this presents a problem in the development of tourism potential.In other words, there are real and significant barriers to the growth of tourism in the province that the Olympics will not cure...Imagine if we had taken even a small portion of Olympic funds and developed some loan guarantee programs for small business...micro-lending...etc. Saying that the Olympics will be good for future tourism is pointless...as the World Tourism Organization has noted, around the globe rates of tourism have grown continously since the 1950s.Of course, there are downsides to this phenomenal growth and can be easily discovered on this site, among others.
I can only go back to my original point, which is that people protest when they believe their voices are not being heard.Any honest appraisal of the studies, literature, and other work out there will show a picture of what the Olympics have wrought in the past...agreeing or disagreeing is rather moot because citizens in a democracy have an obligation to put forward ideas they believe are not being considered. I can only echo anarcho in thanking these protesters, because they are brave voices in a sea of corporate sludge and blood-tainted money. A veritable hoard of Pecksniffs (thanks takuan). Give them credit for being citizens - and please stop telling us that the Olympics are here and we should make the best of it. Women were often advised the same with regard to rape in the past.

Back on topic...

And at the end of the day, the professional protesters will look like the silly fools they are in their little corner of the art gallery. The will be surrounded by throngs of happy people who don't give two hoots about them. If they try anything violent or disruptive they will see about a billion cops swoop down on them. If they are lucky they will get beat up so they can show their WASP revolutionary buddies their battle scars. Then then can go mummi's cottage with Muffi and Mandi and plot their proletarian revolution in the hot tub.

Yaaaawwwnnn....

to Janie Jones

As a white person with zero FN heritage, I can freely say that your ignorance of the realities facing many indiginous peoples is appalling.

1. These people are Canadians.
2. They are called First Nations and not 'Indians'.
3. As middle management for an oil company that drilled on FN Saskatchewan lands, I perhaps know things that you do not. All proceeds from oil sales had to be put into a trust which the band could not touch unless it was given permission from the federal government.
If, as you say, we are paying millions of dollars to them for housing medical etc, it is because the federal government does not deem them fit enough to handle their own money, but more because the federal government has not settled decades old land claims. It's like a carrot held just out of reach until FN settle for less. The reserves that have freed themselves from this bondage can do very well on their own.
4. My brother works investigating child deaths, mostly on Manitoba reserves. He tells me that in Ontario there is a reserve where there are some who, desperate to make money, have allowed gangs to move in, where smuggling is predominant, and where toxic waste is being dumped on the lands.
5. When my brother is on a reserve, he buys us all moccasins (best ever slippers btw) because, as he points out, he is supporting the local economy. Which is where these olympic items come in. IOC has been blatantly siphoning off monies that could have gone to the benefit of First Nations and their projects. They have fraudulently passed off as 'authentic', merchandise which was made in China, with all funds instead going to themselves. I am also thinking that true First Nations art will not so easily be sold in future due to people thinking that it may be bogus too.
6. Your comment about knitting is ridiculous, irrelevant, and not worth a reply.

Expo 86

Tourism BC disgrees with your stats, Luke. Or at least they did until the stats were taken down about 3 years ago after this point was made over and over again. I've a copy of the report and stats, but that does you no good because it's not on the net any more.

Essentially it says that international tourism was steadily increasing at a rate of about 4% from 1981 onward, largely due to the efforts of the cruise industry, aided and abetted by the various associations - ski and mountaineering, wilderness, film industry etc, all off whom piggy-backed on Tourism BC's program as intended.

In the Expo year, there was a 13% increase to 17 million visitors, of whom 4 million were international. The year after, the number of visitors declined by 15% and international visits dropped by nearly 30%. Thereafter, the business continued to grow by 4% until the 1990s recession.

That means Expo did nothing for tourism in BC except get 1987's tourists to show up in 1986. All the hard work in attracting tourists to BC to make it a significant economic player was not due to Expo, but to the cruise industry and Tourism BC's efforts at coordinating promotion.

This point was made over and over again to Tourism BC and other agencies, until finally the statistics were removed from their website. Too embarrassing, I guess, to confront the revealed wisdom of God with facts, whoever God is.

What referendum?

Everybody keeps yapping about a referendum in the City of Vancouver about the Olympics.

THERE WAS NO REFERENDUM. It was a plebiscite

A referendum is binding, a plebiscite is not, and this one was especially useless once Gordon Campbell and his cabinet got hold of Larry Campbell and chewed him a new asshole for promising it. Right after that hardly-private chewing out in Victoria, Larry's tune changed and he said he would consider the results of the plebiscite when deciding whether to support the (Olympic bid, but that he reserved the right to bring the Games to Vancouver regardless of what the citizens of Vancouver thought.

http://archive.vancourier.com/issues03/023203/news/023203nn1.html

Just like the proverbial Indians of Manhattan, we wuz sold for a cheap Chinese trinket.

Good Times!

Oh, so many clashing ideals. Take a step back, folks, and look at it this way: this will indeed be a spectacle of grand proportions!

I for one refuse to flee the city like so many I know are doing - where is their curiosity? I'm not only visiting the free exhibits and maybe seeing some scalped events (there WILL be free seats), but starting February 12 I will meticulously attend all the protests and counter-events. What better way to get a strong idea of the state of the land, than when seeing it under pressure, at odds with itself? I especially want to know for sure what the police are going to do with their testy new laws. Wherever I go, I'll have my mini-cam, documenting the scene for future generations.

I've been a Vancouverite all my life, and I will die here. This city is barely 100 years old; where are we headed? Conjecture aside, I'm sure a defining event as costly and loaded with emotion as the Olympics will act as a magnifying glass for future trends and give us evidence of what the future has in store for this young city.

Strap yourselves in and keep your eyes open!

zalm

Thanks, zalm, about the referendum point. I too am sick of people not bothering to make the distinction between a referendum and a non-binding plebiscite. It's like a fully organic smokescreen for the BC Liberals, bred from burning ignorance - Gordo's people didn't even have to do anything and people are already choosing the wrong people to blame! These people, they divide and conquer themselves!

to Zalm

Last August 11 09, DGReising of the Chicago Tribune wrote matter of factly in his article, header "2016 olympics The cost is too high‏", about the greased palms before the games.
Whether there was a plebiscite or not, it matters not one iota. The decision is actually made once the money is passed to that first greased palm. Possibly why Gordon was so adamant about influencing a city decision?
Then there is the matter of 'performance bonuses' to be dolled out to VANOC executives individually at the end of the games. Even with almost a $7 billion dollar price tag, and with an admitted $1 billion return, these performance bonuses remain intact in a 'contingency fund' of about $55 million and will remain so until the end of the games, when the IOC will pay VANOC off quietly, in gratitude for selling their product to Vanouver.
In it's wake, IOC leaves Vancouver with a few morally defunct, but rich and happy individuals, at the cost to taxpayers of a debt not to be paid off for at least 4 decades.

UK Economics Prof on the Olympics

By Stefan Szymanski

LONDON -- For the triumphant [host city], there are many lessons about the burdens of hosting that you will have to learn for yourselves, but here's a head start.

1. The Olympics will pay for themselves.

Nope, they never do. The Olympics have always needed a public subsidy, but in recent years the cost has ballooned as the number of cities vying for the big prize has grown. This is no coincidence. More competition means brasher promises and bigger purses. Representatives of national Olympic committees, governments and other interest groups are fond of saying that the revenues from ticketing, broadcast rights, sponsorship and merchandising will cover the operating costs.

2. Winning the Games means a gold rush of jobs for the host city.

The truth is that the local economy doesn't get much of a boost while those shiny new athletic venues are being built. Many of the jobs created are filled by specialists who come in from outside -- to construct a BMX bicycle track, it helps to have built one before -- and they take their pay home with them.

3. The Olympics will boost local tourism.

For most foreign visitors, attending the Olympics is a proposition that costs thousands of dollars. Demand is just not that great. True, many foreigners and Olympics die-hards will come, but far more of the attendees will be locals taking the chance of a lifetime. And of those who do travel from abroad, many will be what's known as "time-switchers": people who would have come anyway but plan their trip to coincide with the Games. Tourist arrivals usually fall after the Olympic circus leaves town.

4. Playing host to the Olympics changes the landscape of a city forever.

Maybe, but it's not a legacy worth much. Athens has struggled with unused venues; the Beijing Bird's Nest is mostly empty. London is building an 80,000-capacity Olympic stadium for 2012 only to strip it down to 25,000 seats immediately after the Games. Even Sydney, which staged one of the best Games of recent decades, has torn down a number of venues. In the end, the cost of maintaining unused buildings is so high that demolition is often the only sane option.

5. The Olympics inspire greater participation in sports.

It is true that many Olympic athletes were inspired by watching the Games, but most of these people had athletic talent to begin with. For everyone else, the effect is more likely to go in the opposite direction -- the Olympics can reduce participation in sports. Public subsidies that might have gone into boosting local facilities are diverted to the Games. In the U.K., national lottery funds traditionally devoted to local investment in sports facilities have been committed to funding the Olympics over the next 10 years.

Canadian Pride? My sweet petunias!

Canadian Pride – my sweet petunias! I stopped being a patriotic Canadian when Mulroney announced that Canadian “peace keepers” would now be called “peace makers” during Desert Storm!

Vancouverites voted for this and are willing to pay. Cute statement – what about every other person, living North of Hope, in BC who will be paying, and paying for this crap while we have schools closed, jobs lost, funding cuts to seniors, health care and education to name just the tip of the iceberg?

The Olympics Resistance Network? Other than their usurped slogan, I'm all for them - Where can I join?!

Rising Up Angry...The Time for Politeness is Over...

The time for the politie discussion of this issue, with our wingnut crew here, is over. It is approaching the time for action and outrage. It is time to start taking this elitist, anti-human system on.

a general strike

would be a great starter, Starting February 12th.

Real Prostors or perpetual whiners?

These so-called protestors are just making an excuse for whining and complaining. Do they represent democracy? Give it a rest. If they did, they would state their case without interrupting the events which are being enjoyed by the public.

If these protestors were really up for their cause,
do they really make the effort help resolve the problems they seems to want to bring to the forefront?

Do they represent the majority of citizens?

Terms such as "anti-human" are laughable.

I'm not supportive of the excess spent on the games, but fully support the sporting aspect of the games and the athletes.

If the protestors are really against the games where they figure their rights over-ride the rights of others to enjoy the games and the Torch Relay, they need to seek professional help in counselling and time with the psychologist.

Damn, I wish I could...

...give my share of the taxes that I will have to pay for this hype and glitz for 14 days to all the lemmings supporting the "games". I'll forgo any and all revenue and benefit from them. I'll even donate my portion of the additional taxes to Haitians who will need it. It really does get tiresome being told that now that you're being screwed over, you must be silent. Isn't that always the defense of the intellectually bankrupt. We live in a democracy which has the right to dissent and speak out as one of its freedoms. If these folks are upset about a little opposition now, they should have thought of that when they all got on the bandwagon. You should have expected that a government cloaked in lies and secrecy was going to precipitate this kind of response. Get use to it.

Now is the time to remember...

The world that is coming over the next two weeks is so much bigger than you or anyone you're protesting beside.

Treat the world nice...

The world deserves the very CANADIAN virtues of PEACE, and ORDER. GOOD GOVERNMENT is up to us and will be decided amongst ourselves.

But that's for after our guests have left town.

SO....

Everyone...stop hating. Embrace peace...at least until the end of the month.

Because the next month will be remembered by most for love. Two weeks from now, and Ten years from now, no one will remember your hatred.

leftofcentre

The protesters will be reminding the world that their party was paid for by cutting kids sports programs, cutting the number of teachers, cutting operating room time and winning the gold medal for the highest rate of child poverty in the country. I don't think we'll bother reminding them of our toll bridges, HST and massive debt.

But don't let your hatred of kids and the sick stop you from enjoying the pleasure of seeing the Austrian ski team closeup.

To protesters, A word to the wise

I am not the type of person that leads a protest march but I do respect a persons right to protest like the majority of British Columbians. Casual chatting with a number of people over the past few weeks I sense that support for these Vancouver Olympics is waning as the Olympic torch gets closer and closer. The reasons and there are plenty of them why the public feels this way, so I won't go into them all here. I have being careful not to show my feelings one way or the other but anytime the subject of the Olympics is brought up in casual conversation the majority of people roll their eyes or make a negative comment. My advice here to any protesters out there is that the tide is turning in your favor but only if you keep the protest marches peaceful.....
Inform the public of the true costs and burden that these Olympics have put on the taxpayers of BC and keep Vanoc and this government accountable for the financial mess they have put this province into. Not only during the Olympics but long after the Olympic flame is extinguished. I also hope our opposition NDP party makes the governing Liberal party accountable when Gordo and friends try to manipulate their books and hide the real expenses these games have cost us. We know that it is not a case of if the Liberals lie about the Olympic debt but how soon after this charade is over.

Democratic Participation Requires Dissent

Skywalker said:

G West said:

While those are good points, the truth is that to express dissent and to speak out is more than just a freedom or a right, it is a fundamental requirement in the democratic process.

Which, by the by, is something that the "enemy" seems to be either unaware of, or incapable of understanding or accepting. Those who oppose the opposition to the Olympics fail to grasp the simple and basic fact that the opposition to the games is a sign of a healthy and functioning democracy, and that stifling that opposition is a sign of fascism and a plutocracy in the making.

It's all very simple really. A fundamentally critical part of demcracy is the act of, for both sides of the argument, stating disagreement and of conducting and participating in debate and argument. That is fundamentally what democratic process is all about.

Where things generally fall apart is when one side or the other strats tromping out red harrings, dishonestly manipulated statistics, and a rather endless list of logical fallacies that no one can address because, in part, it's just too damned long and time consuming to correct.

And then, of course, good old Daddy Emotion gets into the mix, and off we go to the land of "no rational thinking please".

We also get lots of such empty platitudinal nonesense as leftofcentre's "What's happening right now in Vancouver is a demonstration of all that is good about humanity." Such utter trash with no grounding in the reality of what is going on at the games, and what the games actually, factually, represent.

The Olympics are one part sports events, nine parts propoganda and ersatz nationalism, and twenty parts profiteering and jockeying for power for a very small group of wealthy, and powerful organizations and individuals. And there are almost certainly too many facts supporting that statement to be argued effectively against if you wish to maintain your integrity and your honesty.

Our Premier was on the

Our Premier was on the national news (CBC or CTV) defending the Vancouver Olympics as not costing more than what was budgeted. I didn't find him believeable, perhaps some gullible folks may have.

Our Olympic protestors may save London from wasting as much or give a future Olympic-town-wannabe some pause for sober second thought.

Vancouver's Olympics head for disaster: Two weeks before the games and with police officers on every corner, Vancouver is far from an Olympic wonderland

Douglas Haddow guardian.co.uk, Sunday 31 January 2010 15.00 GMT Article history

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/31/vancouver-winter-olympics-police