My second prediction: If the dems win the House and Nancy Pelosi becomes speaker, Republican pundits will only call her a bitch in private.

Ron Erwin (IAMC) will find a way not to eat crow if the Republicans are not swept back into power as strongly as before the election - which he has severally predicted.

My prediction: the biggest number in the results tonight will not be Democrats or Republicans - it'll be folks who were registered but stayed home.

The Dems have proven they don't take a back seat to anyone when it comes to cutting back on help to people who need it. So unless one of their more-lefty-than-the-others types like Dennis Kucinich runs for prez I predict that regardless of who wins the US gov't will still look and act pretty much the same :-)

First big question of the night: Where will Ann Coulter have voted?

WASHINGTON - Resurgent Democrats toppled Republican senators in Pennsylvania and Ohio and gained ground in the House Tuesday, challenging for control of Congress in midterm elections shaped by an unpopular war in Iraq and scandal at home.

Lieberman is leading in Conn.

Television networks ABC and NBC projected that Lieberman beat Democratic nominee Ned Lamont and Republican Alan Schlesinger. Lieberman has pledged to vote with Democrats if re-elected.

Oh great, Lieberman is back?

Tweedle-dee or Tweedle-dum? As Austrailian pediatrician and founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility said, "The US has a one-party system with two right wings." No matter who wins, big corporate campaign financiers will pull the puppet strings -- there are hundreds of lobbyists for each elected official!

Beware, Canadians. Don't slip into the polarized two-party system that makes it so easy for moneyed interests to rule south of the border.

And hang on to those elections called at whim! A fixed election cycle is moneyed interests best friend. Keep them off-balance with short election cycles.

(Oops! I forgot to credit Helen Caldicott for that first quote.)

Allen appears to have beaten Webb in Virginia - isn't Webb the guy who wrote novels about the Vietnam war and got nailed for sexual passages in them? While vice's wife writes steamy Lesbian sex and blows up when anyone mentions it.

Bill Nelson beat Katherine Harris in Florida - no surprise.

The senate race so far being this close, is a surprize. Its neck and neck at 45 each. This ones a nail biter, especially since Lieberman is in and with a split, the commissions and spending is a split. And to top it all off, the guy who died in '74, gets to call it and so far, he's been calling off with those Iraqi "heads" instead of "tails" since the get go! (dirty war mongerin' money grubber)

Must say my early predict was a Rep Senate and Dem congress like Richard.

The story of the night on CNN is, "not a single Democrat incumbent has been defeated so far."

Whatever else goes on tonight, we can say this--Republican caveman Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania is gone.

I go now to sacrifice another goat to the Evil One.

Dems must be secretly hoping to fall just short of Senate control. This is not the year to shoot your wad. Best to come close, show strength, but keep on letting Republicans run the show. Let them be the party of record so that the Democratic presidential candidate in 2008 can run against that record. 2008 is when the Dems want to peak.

Interesting point Steve Burgess. I thought many GOP stalwarts who seemed to move away from the administration in the last couple of months were also hoping for a switch in control so when the economic ducks start to hit the fan the downturn can be hung on the Democrats.

The funny thing about Santorum is that he’s actually done quite a lot that’s positive for the poor – couched in his Catholic fundamentalist pro-family mind set of course – but still quite positive. Of course dissenters wouldn’t expect such an admission from a lefty like me – they’d more likely expect me to join you in roasting the goat.

When do you think it'll be done?

It's not for you, G West. It's for the Evil One. OK?

Another side benefit of this election for the Dems--it killed off any small chance that John Kerry would make another run for the Democratic presidential nomination. Wasn't a big possibility anyway but he was putting out feelers. Now after his recent gaffe, he has got to be toast. Since he didn't do the Dems too much dmage tonight, that's pretty much all positive.

Steve Burvess said:Whatever else goes on tonight, we can say this--Republican caveman Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania is gone.
I was watching PBS coverage and noticed blue tee shirts that said. "Too sexy for Santorum". The crowd was having a great time as the guy went down. Many others as well. New York Times has a pretty good election coverage site as well. Even Yahoo is keeping up.The BBC mentioned Bush as the guy with the biggest belt buckle in the world. The republicans are not having a good day. And another guy who Bush hates just retook Nicaragua. Is the US shifting? we will know pretty soon. Hillery Clinton kept her seat with a massive majority.

All righty then, who's gonna be the Dems flag bearer in '08? don't you think McCain trumps Hillary?

I'm really quite fond of goat you know.

Not so sure, Steve. If I was a Democrat, I'd go for power every time. Next, its Bush empeachment if Bush tries veto's combined with the possible dirt one digs from the rats scurrying from drowning ships. Either way, Bush would become a figure head, enough said.

All in all, the democratic party is expected to deliver results on domestic issues and Iraq if they get either house, especially congress and if they get power in both houses, its a mandate to move on from a different foreign policy direction on Iraq and the rest of the world altogether.

The long and short of it is, governments have to govern. The democrats have to get spending under control, focus on domestic issues... there are some big battles coming up with the environment and energy, with the cost of pharmacuticals, and with several key economic sectors including manufacturing and a shrinking domestic manufacturing base from continued outsourcing of labour. Illegal immigration, foreign policies... the american voters who vote the Democrats into congress are expecting results.

From here, the stage is set for battles in domestic issues where Bush veto's for big business, and the Senate stalls...

I see your point Steve with strategy favoring the Dems on a win on default scenerio potentially coming for the Democrats at a later date, but the Democrats, if they were to take both houses, could still blame the Iraq baggage on Bush through the next presidential election and if the Democrats were strong enough to say no to the oil corporate lobbies enough to continue to lower fuel consumption standards in big three manufacturing, with auto dealers and manufacturers could get an unexpected boost in sales, the democrats could see unexpected boosts in popularity if they govern. And if they don't? Their support goes soft. Either way, its theirs to win or lose with power in their hands which is how I'd want it, if I was an american Democrat voter.

Reach for a haunch and you'll be lucky to escape with all your fingers, GW. I'm just saying.

2008--Now the real fun begins. I have simply never been comfortable with Hillary as the Democratic candidate. She's that dangerous combo--hardcore support inside the party, hardcore antipathy outside it. But it's still hers to lose at this point.

I really think Barack Obama has touched a chord, a real longing in the party. How long-lasting will Obamania be? I suspect it has real legs because he is a very savvy public figure--very savvy. What a charismatic, likeable guy. Question is, how will the Republicans come at him? There will be different avenues they can take, mainly the experience factor, and "liberal" smears. They probably don't have to play on race issues because those will work their evil magic without any assistance from Karl Rove. Not that Karl (the real Evil One) would hesitate to do any ugly thing necessary.

T. brain--before we start imagining scenarios wherein Democrats take on Big Oil etc., remember that some of the incoming Dems got elected by impersonating Republicans. Heath Ledger of North Carolina is arguably Democrat in name only.

Pundits are still picking a Republican senate on CNN

CNN calls the House for Democrats.

Agreed, Steve. The Dems have to win by a wide margin to take on their own tough talk. And it looks like they will do just that, in congress. No matter how you look at it, its a tough day for Republicans.

Nancy Pelosi will be the new House Leader. Rightly or wrongly, Republicans are licking their chops about that. They see Pelosi as a figure they can easily caricature as a strident lefty.

Did anyone hear what happened to Lincoln Chaffee in Rhode Island? He used to shoe horses in Alberta and for a Republican wasn't a bad guy.

Pardon me--Heath Ledger is from Brokeback Mountain. Heath Schuler, former NFL quarterback, is the guy I meant. Perhaps I was thinking about what might go on in the showers.

Well if it's Hillary, I think it only fair to put her up against the wildly popular Laura Bush. Cnn is already coming. They have declared the House Dem. They are estatic. A far cry from 2004, when their ashed faced expressions told it all. It's not over yet. I may have to eat half a crow, but always willing to taste new things.

I gotta go, when Ron shows up make sure you give him the humble pie - or at least a bit of roast goat....

I believe Chafee was defeated, G West. A small bright spot for the White House--they hated him.

Plenty of old liberal lions out there in congress for the Dems to back her up, too, Steve. Whats interesting is the gridlock thats coming assuming the Senate goes Republican or a 50/50 with Lieberman onside with the Dems (except for the war on Iraq), will force more camera's and microphones on the rhetoric. And when it comes to rhetoric, Bush and Co. is weak with baggage.

Another thing that could unfold is a shift in media bias. If it goes democratic, its over for a Republican presidency in '08. Same goes for Bush and Cheney's Republican downdraft if Bush and/or Cheney veto as president and through a split senate vice president tie breaker. If the down wash is nasty with veto's from the presidency and upper house, they could run pogo the clown as a Demorat and get in the whitehouse. And so far, it looks like Hilary being enough.

I think that goat's been milked.

Didn't Colbert, in the context of how can we make fun of Obama, say Obama's father was a goat herder?

McCain trumps Hillary. But Gore might come back, especially since Kerry won't be there again and Gore trumps McCain.

Frank, do you really like Gore's chances? He has a "Yesterday's Man" stink about him.

Ron, are you watching CNN? FOX not coming in tonight?

I was hoping to hear Bill O'Reilly had decided life wasn't worth living.

Next on Fox: We barricade the studio and take hostages!

He invented the internet, was the subject of the hottest romance in history and solved global warming. C'mon Steve, give the man a break.

Besides, his documentary is about to hit the video stores. All he has to do is star in Clerks III and the guy is in.

What about Hillary/Obama?

I want to pause and thank Mr. Gore for this blog.

Alcibiades--that's a distinct possibility, although I don't think the reverse would be.

Ron, could we revisit your prognostications from the other day? That FOX poll you never acknowledged was right after all, eh?

I like Hillary/Gore, (with potential to improve on Hillary, of course but who, I don't know yet. Slower on American politics than I tend to admit, being stuck on any but Bush/Cheney and the Republican war machine for so long...) although no one is saying it very loudly just yet.

To elect Hillary is kinda like putting Bill back in the White house. I don't think Americans want that. Go beyond Hillary and suggest someone. I am interested. I mean we have Laura, Condi,McCain and Rudy.
Obama is not ready, to inexperienced, naive and maybe later, but I don't see a prominent Democrat promoting themselves as the next President of the United States.
Forget Gore, he's nut's. And has a lot of noncredibilty when you really look into him.
I am confounded on this question.

You mean Americans would rather have a white president than a black one - or do you really think they're ready to get behind a woman - cause I thought up above here someone said Hillary would lose to McCain.

I have this theory I told Frank about months ago that the GOP ticket could be McCain Lieberman.

Senate is still shaping up to be a split and we all know what that means. Shotgun becomes the hammer.

Obama could do pretty well as a losing Vice Prez candidate. He'd be very well poised for 2012. Hillary not so much. She's already been co-prez and is too large a political figure to be second banana. Whereas Obama is new enough to be a comfortable choice for veep. Win or lose he's be well-positioned. But Hillary would have to go all the way--all or nothing for her, I think.

Ron you're saying Obama is inexperienced. How so? you've had a president now for 6 years with no experience who doesn't seem to have learned a thing since he came to power. How could Obama do any worse as VP? After all, we wouldn't expect him to take over the strings from Cheney.

Glad to see Kerry becoming a ghost of a chance. Never liked that can opener jaw of his.

IAMC: George W. Bush and John F. Kennedy both proved that Americans will vote for a guy with a short resume, if they like him. I think Obama has enough style and charisma to be a new Kennedy.

Steve Burgess - makes sense to me. Tonight makes no sense though unless the Dems can win the White House in 08.

I think Obama is the guy for the top job, now. The turn out of young voters looks like it was up in the high 2 figures - the world is changing and the dinosaurs will soon be extinct. I think the right choice is to go with youth. Might Hillary not be a good Vice President?

Hilary does look good on paper. She's got the dough. But presidents are chosen from winners and the democrats have some new names to look at tonight.

Alcibiades, I don't think Hillary would accept the veep slot. Whereas Obama probably would.

But I'm with you. An Obama candidacy is what that country needs--a young, vibrant, forward-looking candidate who also happens to represent a historic breakthrough for African-Americans. Yet for that to happen, the race issue has to be secondary. With Obama, I think it would be.

Check out Virginia!

Did I just hear that webb is coming back over allen? Vietnam sex trumps ole west lesbian sex - wahoo! What will Vice say?

Any word on the election machines or is that bit of conspiracy theory finally out the window?

If Virginia goes Dem and Webb is ahead on 3,000 votes with 99% in, Montana will decide the power of the Senate (save Lieberman who might have to show his true colors). Early polls have the Dems ahead in Montana... its going to be an interesting night!

I think the two drug dealers from Clerks would have a better chance than Hillary, she polarizes.

You could be right brain, I'm not a close follower of US politics, maybe there's another Paul Wellstone sitting in the Senate out there in Democrat land that has the gravitas to bring home the prize.

E machines are an issue only in Virginia, Alchibiades. The congress is riding a blue wave. :-)

Steve Burgess - I'm with you - if not Hillary at No 2, then who?

And what's gonna happen to the fundamentalist vote; they supported Bush all the way up to the eyeballs and got virtually nothing for it in return? Will they crawl back under a rock (did they turn out tonight) since they are a spent force.

The calls to get out of Iraq are going to start tomorrow. If I were Hillier I'd be calling up the Russians for their heavy lift aircraft. Afghanistan isn't going to be far behind.

And Harper was getting hammered on Softwood in Ottawa today. This could get really interesting if some of the new democratic congressmen are protectionist.

Alcibiades--If Obama was the candidate, who'd be #2? Perhaps they could disinter George Wallace to balance the ticket. But it couldn't be Hillary--they'd need a soothing figure. Bad choice: Howard Dean.

I like the guy speaking on CNN at the moment. Rahm Emanuel, I think his name is. Interesting what's coming out of Virginia. There was a recount in the last election. The change was 27 seats. This time around, at this point, with 1% of the polls give or take to come in, the margin is 2400 votes between Allen and Webb.

Harper just lost a whole lot of friends tonite. Looks good on him, and castes an ugly dark cloud on his future. Might be the other half of the crow for IMAC, if he's still got room. :-)

The brain
what is that shorthand? - I use it so seldom - ROFLMAO.

Wish I felt democracy was comin' to the USA - but I know it ain't true; still, small victories.

So it's an honest-to-goodness dogfight for the Senate after all. Wow.

The house was a bigger upset that I thought it would be. The senate remains pretty close, too close to call. Let's hope the Dems take it.

Won't end the Iraq war, though, Shrub is still the Commander in Chief.

Never say never. Few would have predicted the upset in the house tonight.

Certainly not RON. Maybe he'll change his name again in honour of the occasion.

You guys clearly know something I don't. Is IAMC this "Ron" fellow you keep referring to?

Yep, started out as Ron Erwin, morphed into IAMC - frank knows the details - before my time.

I see Obama on the Teevee, later dudes!

Looks more and more like a 50/50 senate split, with Cheney calling the shots. But whats interesting, is the money breakdown will split 50/50 on new commissions proposed by the senate. Its a win lose of sorts, and the worst part about it for americans is gridlock with the whitehouse stalling any new bills proposed to regulate big business, possibly with every other single issue including Iraq. As this gridlock drags on, Bush will become more and moreso, a liability for the Republicans.

Americans spoke loudly tonight for change. Its a landslide Democratic congress, a 27 - 16 Dem to Rep governance with this ratio likely to hold through the night, and a major recoup of available senate seats up for grabs for the Democrats. Americans have spoken, its a strong message from the american people, and its a strong message to the world.

I can't help but feel a little bit safer, myself, and warmer to americans for having expressed themselves where it counts... for a change in a newer, safer direction.

Obama is talking caaaandidacyyyy.... ohboyohboyohboy!

A lot of right wingers are out of a job. a few minutes ago the Senate was tied. and Lieberman although a Independent said he would vote with the Democrats. He said it a number of times. Now lets do an investigation on Chaney's old company Halliberton who recently was found over changing the Iraqi's for fuel. as for Ms.Clinton, well she kept her seat with a very large majority, even though her daughter was kept from voting. Ain't American voting system a mess. I just checked the Manchester Guardian. seems a squirrel chewed up a power cord shutting down a number of polling booths. They weren't sure is the squirrel survived. Maybe it was a republican supporter

Ok, question one: How much can you accomplish with half the legislative branch under your control?

Question two: With the power to control congressional committees what could and what should, the democrats investigate?

Question three: With Rick Santonrum done, does the noun 'Santorum' http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/sodomy/santorum/ stand?

I can't believe what I just heard on CNN!

They are saying that there are two numbers, three thousand either way, one number is real, one isn't, and CNN doesn't know!!! Absurd.

Question four: How does this affect Canada?

UBC's uber pundit Michael Byers has an idea.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1162810869312&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

Obama has a chance to play a similar role in the American imagination as did John Kennedy -- who was a first term senator and trying to change history by being the first Catholic elected. Handsome, smooth talking, calculating. Obama would take undercut Hillary Clinton's claim to be a bold breaker of the historical mold. After all, she's by now a very familiar figure, and vulnerable to a nepotism narrative. In this case, race may trump gender when it comes to portraying oneself as the truly revolutionary candidate in 21st century USA.

Richard Warnica
You'll have to ask Andrew Sullivan about that, isn't he the resident genius on such matters?

For me, wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

I knew this conversation was going to come apart at the seems when Burgess started to burn that damn goat.

If they start an investigation into the Bush White House right off the get-go it will mean nothing much else is goint to happen ---lame duck president and lame duck congress.

Iraq has to be issue no 1 - I think the Brain is right, depends upon Cheney more than Bush. If Rummy resigns it's a sign things will actually change. If he doesn't --- a mess... and the Pentagon is going to start to really push.

Good to see that neonazi nutcase Tantrum lost. And Bernie Sanders of the Democratic Socialists won his senate race by 30 percentage points. First socialist ever in the senate. Clueless One ain't a gonna like dat! But does anybody know how Kinky Friedman did in the Texas goveror's race?

I'm not an American. I know the culture only tangentially. But I still have trouble believing a black man will be President of the United States., at least in 2008.

Am I wrong? Is Obama a legitimate threat?

Alcibiades--Think how the goat feels.

Dave Beers--I was thinking the same thing about Obama-Kennedy, First African-American vs. First Catholic. It's Charismatic Young Breakthrough Candidate, the Next Generation. You're right too, you almost forget that Hillary would be a gender-breakthrough candidate--she's already so familiar that she simply doesn't seem like a revolutionary figure in any way.

Anarcho: Kinky fell short
http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_311235651.html

Richard, I think Obama has a special magnetism. That said, you can rarely go wrong being cynical about the American voting public.

They ain't making candidates like Kinky anymore.

1. I miss Dan Rather.

Imagine if he were working tonight:
"This race in Tennessee is tighter than a boll weevil's toenails on a dusty Dallas Saturday night."

Steve, I don't think Canadians are any better. Can you think of a single non-white politician who has ever made a legitimate bid for a federal party?

Is Obama a legitimate threat?

I agree it defies common wisdom. But every once in a while there is a sea change in voter sentiments, at least the sentiments of the non-harcore swing voter. American culture has that element of becoming disgusted with the status quo and making a clean start with some charismatic character. Reagan hived off a lot of middle and working class Dems that way. Such moments tend to arrive at a moment when it's abundantly clear the old way is broke and at a dead end, but no one really agrees on what should come next. Time to invest hopes and dreams in an attractive figure who symbolizes upbeat change, and basic human goodnes. So far Obama stays away from five point prescriptions, just lets his hugely compelling personal story do the heavy lifting. And don't forget the huge immigrant vote that will resonate more with that story than even blacks.

Two more bad years of Iraq casualties, plummeting middle class equity (home values) and outsourced workforces, along with the usual reactive mean spirited rhetoric poured over it all by the US media, and Obama's time should be just about right. But... as always ... will the Democratic Party hacks be smart enough to see it and let it happen.

I'm sure I heard or read that young voters came out in much greater numbers than in 2004. What are the participation numbers like?

Anyone?

And David, if the economy goes seriously pear-shaped won't the GOP and the big money hang it on the Dems after tonight? I think what happens when the bells ring on Wall Street tomorrow can't be ignored.

You can be sure if there was an election here that a new Liberal leader would beat Harper with the Income Trusts stick just as hard as if he were a red-headed step child.

Well Steve, they say JFK's IQ was 118. Now I don't know GWB's IQ, I do know that he went to Yale as did Kerry, and he had a higher GPA ( barely ).
It's got a lot to do with charisma.And to many Americans George Bush is a decent man, maybe over his head, but has some smart friends, and a back round of management. What was Jimmy Carter's IQ, or my hero Ronald.
Clinton was a smart man. Obviously a preoccupied underachiever.

The thing is, Obama has the royal jelly. It's a vague concept, but it's real. It's like sexual attraction--you can analyze it all you want but the fact is it operates on a level beyond the intellect. Of course a candidate's political image can collapse with help from dirty tricksters of the type Republicans employ so well. But I think Obama has an irreplaceable quality no other candidate on the horizon can match.

Well Ron, I don't know what the POTUS' IQ is either - but, if he doesn't fire Rumsfeld after tonight he is an IDIOT.

The American people have spoken up loudly and clearly, if he stays with that 'I'm gonna stick with Rummy no matter what', he's gonna bring down the same kind of protests on his head as Vietnam laid on Johnson and Nixon.

David Remnick, who edits the New Yorker and is one of my favourite journalists, did a long Q and A with Obama a while back.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/articles/061030on_onlineonly04

Alcibiades:

The Obama perfect storm scenario would have him perceived as a reformer within his own party as well. So the GOP might hang the economy on the Dems, but not on Obama. Remember that Kennedy portrayed Ike as soft on communism! And Clinton took every chance to lecture the Sister Souljas on common decency and let's all get along. I'm with Steve. Obama has a narrative, a personality, and pretty much the political blank slate it would take to overcome Democratic baggage to date. The 'royal jelly' as Steve says. The guy's got jam!

Here's that statement - from an outfit called CIRCLE - on young voters:

Young voter turnout in a set of targeted precincts increased by an average of 50 percent over the 2002 election, and by as much as 111 percent in some precincts, according to an Election Night analysis by the Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement (CIRCLE), continuing a national trend of growing young voter participation that began in the 2004 election.

More here:
http://www.civicyouth.org/

Ron, you seem to forget that pesky, and unwinnable, war that smart guy Bush got his country into.

Our brillant leader led us into an active combat role in another, equally unwinnable, war. Let's just hope Canada's electorate realises that before any more Canadians are killed in that futility.

David,
I'm inclined to agree, especially if younger people are starting to step up and vote in larger numbers. Blogs and the internet may also play strongly in Obama's favour. It was younger people, folks born long after the 1st world war, that made the difference for Kennedy too.

I think the Democrats would be wise to go with him but I can't see Hillary quitting without a huge and probably divisive fight.

Thanks for the New Yorker link, Richard. Good point Remnick makes in bring up the Powell example. He had his moment and it might have looked like something to build on. But he decided not to seize the moment and the moment passed. That's why I think, short resume or not, Obama has to strike now. Beatlemania doesn't happen twice.

Why does Obama get so much support, when Condi is ignored? Is it sexist? You don't want a woman to win?
There are so many strange twists to all of this.

Read that New Yorker interview and you can see what Obama has even when you can't look at him. His answers are political in the sense that they are judicious. But there is a thoughtful, honest analysis at work there, and it is clearly evident whenever he speaks one-on-one.

Or Trudeaumania either - it had to be '68.

Speaking of yesterday's man, doesn't McCain look old and tired and sound clichéd?

Why not Condi Rice? Ask the Republicans. She has resolutely denied any interest for one thing, and she has certainly been mentioned in the top rank of potential candidates. But the enthusiasm would have to come from the Republicans. So, IAMC, I return that question to you--why isn't there more of a push behind her?

IAMAC:

Who is ignoring Condi Rice? How can we? And given all the spotlight, she is utterly without charisma. Her speeches are strained and teleprompterish, without passion. Have you sampled a bit of Obama? We're talking about distinct people here, who happen to black or women or both, but its their essential appeal, not their demographic 'categories' under discussion, right?

... and clearly Steve is faster at this than me (and funnier and smarter) because I keep posting stuff that he's just said and posted seconds before...

Alcibiades--Oddly enough, CNN pundits are just now saying that McCain is trying to look presidential tonight.

Aw, Dave. But you make a separate and important point about Rice. She comes off like a senior bureacrat. Always has.

That might just be the best news of the night. Only in the US of A you say? Pity.

Because Condi is going to move to Nova Scotia and buy a little lot with Peter.

Richard Warnica:

Questions 1 & 2

Well, there's plenty that the Democats could try in congress. They'll try to introduce bills for spending in social programs, including more spending for education and prescription plans. The Senate could vote any pharmacutical legistation down in favor of corporate lobby interests.

The Democrats could introduce an energy bill that targets auto efficiency standards, tougher emissions standards that Cheney and Co. could veto in a 50/50 split. And then there's Lieberman, an obvious for the war on Iraq spender, so the Dem's might not even have 50 senators concerning military cutbacks proposed by the congress, and the Democrats could establish tougher regulations on the food manufacturing industry, but face Cheney and Bush's corporate "interests" and on it goes... until the next Senatorial elections.

And dark clouds loom for their economy. Its been inflating in some states, setting up a real estate recession, others like Ohio have been hit with lost manufacturing jobs, globalization hasn't been the end all cure all the neo cons thought it was... their national debt going on 9 trillion, currency worries compounding with record trade deficits...

This congress has to be an honest congress at a time where corporations control the whitehouse and senate. The more I look at it and see their own economics not working for them and at the same time, the pressures on congress by lobbiests to not succeed in representing its own people...

Meanwhile, it'll likely be gridlock until the balance of power changes in the senate over time and even then... Over time, the President has a chance to save face and comprimise, senators start looking into the future... but if they don't and politically gamble and stop what the voters elected this congress to do which is to govern.

And then, there's how the media spins it and how far corporate bought interests go at this point... and it goes far.

Still looking for when the next Senatorial elections are, but the focus will be huge and the people of america are demanding change. Gridlock isn't what they want.

The Democrats, like any house majority, have 4 years in congress. The people have spoken! Most who know politics in the U.S., know that congress has the most power between the two houses. But with both Cheney deciding what the senate does with his vote to break the tie, and Bush to veto, what could and will likely happen is this. Gridlock until the Republicans lose power in the Senate and when those elections might be, I don't know. If the Republicans don't offer flexibility from here on in, especially if the Democrats introduce meaningful bills in congress, they'll lose the presidency no matter who they run.

I see Condi's future in Nova Scotia, taming the fierce fires of passion of a certain potato farmer; she has had the White House, she needs a new house and Peter McKay is the man to put a smile back on that strained, tense and beautiful face.

She looked happier while she was up in Canada with McKay than I've ever seen her.

And, it would keep Peter out of trouble with his old flame.

I still say he looks old and tired. A lot like Ike - at the end of his presidency - CNN is practicing some kind wishful thinking. He might be able to beat Hillary - but not Obama.

You stole my thunder Frank, well done!

I liked how Condi's face would change from happy to mad to angry to serious to generous, to happy like Collie again to angry flash serious happy, all in 10 seconds!

Presidential IQs:
http://folk.ntnu.no/brown/bush.html

I find this interesting.

Another rating system placed Bush's intelligence at about 124 based upon his SAT scores and his Harvard MBA. Considering he probably grew up with as many tutors as he could ever need and the level of discussion around the bush household was probably filled with educated people, I would think that that alone would raise his IQ by about 20 points over the average kid of equal intelligence from the lower east side of just about any major American city.

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/28085.html

I wonder where Hillary and Obama rank? They certainly sound intelligent enough. As long as they don't sport a Princeton tie.

Brain, interesting comments. Can Dems frame energy, global warming as issues essential to the big two: economy and war? Need to. Haven't so far.

Re this: The Democrats, like any house majority, have 4 years in congress.

... actually those elected to the House get two-year terms and those to the Senate four-year terms. Really, they just have two years until the presidential election when House members are up again for election, along with the prez (executive branch). So Richard, think I earned a gold star from that social studies teacher in Calgary?

whoops, meant to say: and those to the Senate six-year terms. (Can I do a make-up exam Richard?)

In Clagary you get to take provincial exams every year - whether they help you or not! In Alberta they offer Texas-style education.

I think EQ is more of a factor than IQ in politics.

...unfortunately, I'd like to add

Oh God, it's Lou Dobbs, must be time for Jon Stewart!

So it's all going to come down to a single state recount once again.

So congress gets another election coming during the next presidential elections two years from now? I stand corrected. Thought it was every four years. My poli sci course probably taught it and I sorta... just... forgot. :-)

McCain is is in the hunt. His interview on Cnn , sorry CNN had him in a stuffer suit sitting in front of the Arizona flag as well as the Star Spaggled Banner.
Is he the guy? ( person ) Perhaps.
He can easily beat Obama next time anyway.

Is that another one of your famous predictions, IAMC?

;)

Every two years a new election for every congressperson. That's one of the remarkable aspects of American politics. It was an innocent rule that gradually became a cancer as money came to be pre-eminent in a TV age. The election never ends, and that explains a lot.

The Dems are taking back the House and the youth of America are turning out in bigger number to vote. If that's not enough to convince you of the coming of the Apocalypse then surely Rupert Murdoch (FOX) suddenly believing in global warming will be.

(As for what this will mean for the millions of Americans who claim FOX is their only news source and there is no such thing as global warming, one can only guess)

I think it might be time to become a realtor selling "End-Times" properties in Tumbler Ridge to the gullible.

Yup! A recount in Virginia. The Dems need 3 more Senate seats for a house majority and are leading in all three and looking predictable.

Little clips like this one make you wonder about Virginia.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/11/07/midterm-results.html

Among them, at the end, is this:

"Most seriously, the FBI was investigating allegations that voters in Virginia had received phone calls intended to discourage them from voting or directing them to the wrong polling location. - cbc"

IAMC--Like a lot of people ostensibly on the other side of the spectrum from McCain, I've always liked and admired the guy. But do you really see him as a slam-dunk candidate? He is generally noted to be the kind of maverick who frequently sabotages himself with too much honesty.

Shucks Ron, McCain can't beat Obama. His voting record just ain't that purdy.

The only chance McCain would have is if Jon Stewart endorses him.

I think the Republicans should run a ticket of Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson in 2008. Maybe add Buchanan as a vice-VP.

Well he looks good right now, but Rudy looks good also. McCain could do it. I will go whatever way I see makes me look like a hero.

CNN calls Missouri.
Virginia widens to 6,000 for the Dems.
The Democrat Tester is leading by 11,000 i Montana, the Democrats could and should take contol of the Senate here, save Lieberman with military spending. Thats a major change in the balance of power!

Boy, does it ever. Eye opening!

A fine strategy, IAMC!

A Bush is in the White House, Joe-mentum is sweeping the NorthEast and Daniel Ortega is president of Nicaragua. Its deja-vu all over again.

Who was missing Dan Rather?
He's on the Daily Show.

"election night"?

there were no elections happening in BC or canda tonight.

oh. there was one in the US.

will the tyee be having "election nights" when there are elections in other countries too?

can't wait for "election night egypt" or election night iceland".

what a lame way to keep a few extra people logged in on your website. i repeat: lame.

Make that close to 12,000 for the Dems in Virginia with 99% in. Tester a 10,000 vote lead with 65% in, but the Reps think they can catch him. If the Dems win these seats they are ahead in, they have control of the senate with Leiberman.

jrb, you simply miss the signifigance of an election that defines the foriegn policy of the largest economic superpower in the world.

Hey, this was Election Night Nicaragua too ya know!

I'm all for election night Egypt by the way. Mubarek versus anyone not currently in jail for disagreeing with Mubarek.

A vote for Mubarek is a vote for freedom. Your own, for a start.

Boy, that George Allen sure wound up in deep macaca.

Now we'll wake up tomorrow morning and find out the voting machines have finished counting absentee voters, the military and the dead and the Republicans won every district and senate seat.

Not to mention uncovering Democrat electronic hacking to fix the vote!

I haven't heard so much god-talk from the stage since the last general election in Iran.

Going to back out now, folks. Thanks, it was fun--and civil! Let's keep that going, shall we?

Anyone for goat-wurst?

Speaking of God-talk, ABC says that exit polls show large numbers of evangelicals have voted Democrat. Looks like they didn't stay home - some of the Foley macaca must have stuck:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2006/story?id=2636480&page=1

Naw, Steve, let Ron have it, he's finished the crow and he's still hungry!

They've got some dandy county names out in Montana's Big Sky country: Toole, Rosebud, Big Horn, Beaverhead. Not to mention Flathead, Powder River, and Lewis & Clark (hey, I thought that was illegal in those Red states). And the returns so far from Meagher County are ... zero, which is pretty damned meagre.

More data on how well the youth vote turned out:
http://www.youngvoterstrategies.org/index.php?tg=articles&idx=More&topics=37&article=279

This is a pleasant change

They all like to thank God, don't they, Tom?

Might not have been civil if the Republicans would have won, Steve. :-)

And the fudge packer, Alchibiades. What was his name, the married guy, looking pretty 'Haggard' now. lol :-)

There's still drama! While Virginia looks poised to go Democratic, the last state that determines the future of the senate is Montana. With 71% in, Tester's lead slips to 6,000 votes from an 11,000 vote lead with 65% in. The Republicans are gaining.

But don't bet against the finger missing flat top runner just yet! He farms organically. :-)

Stephen Colbert wants to know if the Democratic policy will be "tax and spend, cut and run, or man on man".

Hey Tom
I love it.

12:45 am

Webbs ahead by 8,000 votes with 99% of polls in for lead in one of two seats left for a majority Senate for the Democrats.

Tester ahead by less than 4,000 votes with more than 81% of polls in. Its close in Montana!

classic: the good lot of ya had been confirming (in commments on stories past, and also by my inferences) and lamenting over the indiscerniblity of the mainstream right and the mainstream left. And here y'all have been on election night rubbing your hands (or other proturbences) getting all gleeful and giddy over some shifting of players. Same gameboard, same goal. Yee fucking haw. Gimme a break, jokers.

Best comment I've seen in the press this morning - from David Brooks at the NYTimes:

November 8, 2006, 1:03 am
A Good Night for the Country

By David Brooks, New York Times Op-Ed Columnist

Why am I weirdly happy? I’m a conservative. Many people I know and admire lost tonight. And yet somehow this strikes me as a good night for the country.

First, there would be something wrong for the country if the Republicans got to act this way in the House and then keep their majority. That would be a sign we’d become a one-party state.

But more than that, the voters have voted for change, but they haven’t gone overboard. They did not choose the Ned Lamont wing of the Democratic Party. Many moderate Republicans survived, despite my pessimistic expectations – Chris Shays, Deborah Pryce.

Furthermore, many moderate Democrats won, like Heath Shuler in North Carolina. And to top it all off, some of the crudest anti-immigration folks in places like Arizona lost.

All in all, an end to the era of base-mobilizing politics and a victory for the center (albeit with a Democratic tilt). Nancy Pelosi seems to understand this. She’s striking a bipartisan pose, not a triumphalist one. We’ll see if it lasts.

Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack !- a conversation between lame ducks Shrubby and littele Stevey blunder .
I phuquing love this shyte !
Hey,Maybell,Ron,Clueless whatever the phuque you are calling yourself today .
Hardy,har har .
Whatsamatta your crystal ball turn opaque ?
Your prognostications suck .
Same way your stupid insistance that Harpo will cobble together a majority is nuts .

Before Hannibal stepped in , I wanted to tell Brain that you offered a very interesting perspective and frame of reference to the election results that are unfolding before our eyes...,

Indeed the many trips I`ve taken in the UNITED STATE OF AMERICA ..in the past 5 years and especially a discovery I made one day of one of our great poets.. - while driving down , listening to the works of Leonard Cohen.., indeed , his song..: DEMOCRACY IS COMING TO THE USA.. has resonance and deep insight written into it.., ( the music is fantastic also and with the realisation that every two years the HOUSE is up for re-election seems to be a blessing rather then a cancer as one of the post suggested here)..., all in all , me thinks LEONARD COHEN HAD IT DEAD ON..,
( I wonder when he wrote that song anyway )..,

thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts..

comments anyone ?

machinery for change ...., was one of Leonard`s observation... , as to the USA`s political culture .., and it`s ever transformative dimension and new directions that it continuously navigates ...,

I also finished reading recently a fascinating book on the history of BOEING and how , throughout it`s history , time and time again ..,has managed to be a technological leader in the aeronautics/areospace industry..., a powerful insight into the American psyche , once again , for when I drive through Seattle , I finally realise that these people .., THE AMERICANS , are indeed industrious and above all, will never give up trying to be the best that they can become.. ( as a people).., born out of revolution as they`ve been, they continue their journey into the future .., boldly , yet as we all know , at times , very awkwardly..*.., ( collectively speaking ).., thus taking in , Leonard`s comments and observations in his great song.., and poem , I might add , perhaps he`s right .., they do have the machinery for change... !!!

Meanwhile in my dear old Canada.., as we observe and search for a meaning and an identity .., we sit at the cross roads of a decision we must make ..,

are we whole , or will we remain fragmented.., not really knowing who we are and what will become of our country?

This is the challenge and this is the lesson we can learn from a neighbour who isn`t afraid to correct course and clearly - again collectively speaking- can look itself in the mirror..,
( warts and all ) , and get on with doing what needs to be done..*

Will we ever accept our parallel destiny and get on with being who we are?*.., by getting to fully grasp and understanding our very own collective psyche ? .., ( through elections.. all people`s eventually express their vision of not only who they are.. but who they also want to be in the future )..,

Can we say truthfully that with our very own election results that we`ve got a handle , as a people, and as electors.., on where we want to go .., let alone , where we`ve been..*...

( take the billion dollar idea , of providing guns for our border )..* is this really what we represent , not only to ourselves.., but to the world at large..? ...

A people who has lost their way...,a people who cannot tell their stories..,nor explain the experiment ..,world class experiment they`ve become?

these are the thoughts that come to mind after experiencing these election results from afar..

The single most important stat measurement of reality to come out of this latest US election is... ready for it?

Only 37% of voting age citizens even bothered to vote.

There is the most significant measure, voting by staying away, of the real value the majority of folks put on the "controlled choices" built into US "Big Money Democracy". Or democracy, so-called.

And I will venture a guess, based on our own "democratic" past performance, that the next election in this country will result in our own so-called "Big Money Democratic System" producing, at least, a not significantly different result.

It's the result which, I suggest, inevitably comes out of all the real political choices being (a) more alike than dissimilar, and (b) status quo "centrist" ones. Which is all that is ever left when all the other possible, more challenging, so-called "extreme" choices are effectively squeezed out of the Big Money democratic system; There are no real choices.

And "the majority" of citizens, here as well in the USA, are coming to understand this feature of capitalist so-called democracy.

Thanks brother Coyote!
I was looking for a number on participation last night. Pretty pathetic, although I did find some indication that younger voters were turning out in greater numbers yesterday - which is a good sign.

Aren't mid-terms always much lower than elections where a president is involved?

Low voter turn out in the US had a lot to do with those stupid electronic voting machines that were designed for one thing- to steal an election .
People were mightily pissed at the last presdidential election when Ohio's results were so questionable .
Hard to believe that the US envies us our voting strategy, but they do .
Every ballot is treated the same way(nation wide) and produced in the same manner .

And my last thought , since I have no takers at this moment .., [/B]as to my comments.., I would like to thank the TYEE , once again , for being a depository.. , a [B]memory bankreally of not only ideas.., but a window for communications exploration ,of the very questions I raise in the post above..,

Congratulations to the publisher for understanding where the future is headed , as per the unfolding 21st CENTURY MEDIA . ( and millennia related and focused )..,

The ability to write a letter to the editor , like I`m doing at this very moment should never be underestimated as a new tool that gives a voice to the many who did not have that option open to them prior to this internet based revolution.., bringing to the masses.. , much like the Guttenberg press did .., eons ago.., a way of getting their thoughts and ideas out there ! , so that communications , and networking per se.., on a one to one basis of exploration and discovery .. with the possibility of a forum and feedback ,can actually EFFECT CHANGE *..

LAND OF COMMUNICATIONS , LAND OF EXPLORATION AND DISCOVERY ! ... thus is our explanation thus is our destiny as a people.., as a country .., and as an experiment *..,

Let`s get on with it..,we have what it takes to harness the skills we`ve honed over centuries.., that of taking on gradually the `global village` identy and dimension and subsequent challenges that flows from such an endeavor ..by simply becoming a mirror for that optic .., so needed in a world seeking to find a mirror of it`s humanity, ... ,

We are an experiment , OUI! ... and with this bicameral mind , along with an extended multicultural and multilingual flavour .., -extended through immigration-.., we are becoming a fine wine.., well aged, and we`ve created and have been able to get a sampling / certain `taste`.., of the human condition.., of the issues that come with being in co-existence with HUMAN SETTLEMENTS all over the planet..,

we are a potential gateway to the WORLD CITIZENS emerging awakening/ awareness .., that will one day provide the ultimate REVOLUTIONARY THINKING of models and frames of reference..and multi-dimentional approaches, to a thinking and feeling PEOPLES - WORLD PEOPLES - and their next step into the unknown *.., journey of mankind, womankind.., human kind..*

( kind being the operative word here ..)

and on and on...., thus is my vision , thus is my offerings , up for reflection , rejection or comments on this day following a very important election to the south of us.

Thanks , once again.

[/B]village[B]

Yea,G traditionally the US has a turn out of mid 60's for presidential elections .
Quite similar to our own .
Nothing new in low voter turn our for mid-terms though .

Webb, a former Navy secretary under former President Ronald Reagan, claimed victory early Wednesday. But Allen was behind by fewer than 6,000 votes out of more than 2.3 million counted. He urged his supporters to watch the remaining returns carefully.

"The election continues," Allen told them. "The counting will continue through the night. It will continue tomorrow."

Republicans and Democrats both sent lawyers to the state to tally uncounted absentee ballots Wednesday, as well as canvass votes counted on Election Day.

Looks like both houses may change hands if this count holds up .
One thing is for certain Herr Harpo's new best friend has been castrated by the people .

"I feel like a four dollar gopher in a two dollar coat "
Dan Rather

Greg Palast wrote a piece prior to the election explaining the many ways the 24 million people who try to register to vote are either prevented or totally discouraged from it.
http://www.rense.com/general74/cher.htm

Washington State has had such a vote-discouraging gimmick in place for years...only the list of registered voters is used for jury duty. Most people can't afford to serve, so they don't vote.

No doubt that's true nana, but, isn't the 37% figure a percentage of 'registered' voters?

If you're also saying an awful lot of voters go unregistered I'm sure that makes even the 37% look good. I'm joking of course.

Or am I mistaken?

And, despite Palast's cautionary tale, here's the results from the OHIO Gubernatorial contest:
Strickland 2,305,375 60%
Blackwell 1,406,111 37%

Well while I don't believe there is really much difference between Democrats and Repulicans, at least not the current crop, I am hopeful that there will be a raft of investigations into the corruption and handling of the Iraq war. Of course those things won't go too deep. Democrats get buckets of cash from big business as well, and won't bite the hand that feeds. But there is a possibility of a snowball effect that leads to more significant change down south. But I suspect it will take the general population in the US suffering some real hurt to wake them up into actually acting, which is a sad commentary not so much on Americans, but humans in general.

As for the comments by "village", or perhaps a more accurate description is incoherent ramble, what's with all the rah rah USA and boo boo Canada? The election results in the US are significant, but they are hardly something to rejoice in, nor are they a sign of anything inherently industrious, bold or admirable about Americans, particularly given the pathetic voter turnout. This is the nation that is currently engaged in a war that has led to the deaths of over 600,000 people. The vast majority of those killed innocent civilians. Village's starry (and stripe) eyed blather is a rehash of the kind of American propaganda that enables them to bury past and current atrocities under a sugar coated glaze of their periodic "let's pretend to represent the people". There is an enormous amount of death and horror America has to answer for, and I have serious doubt there will be any significant effort to right past or current wrongs.

So while the results, if the Democrats do take the senate, are encouraging; let's not fool ourselves into believing this is a sign of anything other than the possibility of the beginning of the beginning of change. And I emphasize possibility.

Amen, James Burns. Very much agree.

To be able to overcome presidential vetoes the Dems would have to have 60 Senate votes, right?

The essence of the American Character, as a national phenomenon can be summarized by the image of a mirror overlaying a mirror. It is a character that is limned by the super-icons of American life; the Road, the Car, the War, the Celebrity, the One Night Stand. At its core it is a striding base line and a rolling chrome wheel. A chrome wheel that in its spinning creates a mirror. A mirror that has, like Narcissus, stunned us with a terrible beauty. The world looks on appalled by our apparent indulgence and infantile stare. But they cannot hear the whisper and see only the solipsism.

The whisper is America talking to itself. It’s important to note that America talks to itself more that any other nation on earth. We cannot utter the words; Values, Family, Way of Life and many more without prefacing these with the totemic utterance of the word “American”. Our media carry an almost constant flow of navel gazing information. “What do you think America? Register your voice at dot com whatever.” The phrase “The American People” is droned by our political candidates almost constantly as a soothing mantra. In reporting any mortal tragedy, invariably the number of American dead is stated as a separate datum.

The rest of the world does not do this. These words are used as a talisman and are invoked to sustain a fragile image of our special status. The whisper begins at birth, and seems to travel over fragrant, full red lips that tickle the ear and speak of American transcendence, power, kindness, leadership, opportunity and above all wealth. It is an erotic life long susurration - seducing the soul. This is a show that fixes the mind and installs the skeleton of our national character. The skeleton is then over time and through education, popular media and social interaction fleshed out with the various trappings of class, region, style, fetish, dreams, etc... an infinite variety of expressions. It’s in this variety and through unimaginably fleeting manifestations that our character is born daily, almost hourly- it seems. Things and traditions move, are changed and disappear at an always accelerating rate. We are in a feedback loop caused by a mirror in front of a mirror. We are transfixed by a culture that is created by our transfixion.

The world, to a lesser degree, is also fascinated by the flashing, violent strobe that is American culture. They can’t look away, or more accurately feel that they look away at their own peril. However, without proximity or access to the voluptuous and false messages; the diorama becomes an inexplicable train wreck. It’s a charming, frightening and dangerous light show.

Dangerous because like all solipsists we create the truth as we go. And the truth can always be found by “staying on message”. We cannot as a nation be wrong since we are a priori perfect in countenance and action. She says so..(cont'd >>>)

(<<

Jim Kunstler?

MSNBC is reporting Rumsfeld stepping down:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15622266/

This turning out to be a great day...

Gotcha, TommyMoore.

And a brilliant piece of, for want of a better concept, cultural analysis.

Insightful.

tommymoore

Talk about insulting to women.

While I agree that the Dems win will not change things overnight, I must disagree that there is little difference between the two parties in the U.S. How many social democrats are in the Republican Party? None. There are plenty in the Democratic Party (and the new leader of the House would qualify under most definitions). So while the Democrats will have to chart a centrist course, they will be very different from the thugs they are replacing.

Tommymore, I'm blown away by that one. Its a gem, a true gem. The first paragraph alone, is worth publishing anywhere, in any best seller. And then you betray her as a hot and sexy heated slut, "come join me" in a "whisper". If its plagerized, I don't care, want to use it for myself. :-)

The mirror in a mirror stuff, truly brilliant Tommymore. If you wrote it, its excellent stuff and why? In my op, its, not in any way condescending here, but its an apt description of empires... i.e. Rome herself or more accurately, the USA. "And when in Rome"

But on days of elections, all of us have to ask, "Geez, did anyone honest make it? Did anyone slip through the cracks?" James Burns post and conclusions are also powerful. And comments from the village, hey, we know whats its like to puppylove fall and flirt it up with a hot babe! (that, and anyone who compliments my ego and likes Leonard Coen)

Excellent stuff, Tommymore. Very impressed.

Now , turn that analysis skill on CANADA*

The mirror dimension and indeed the full canvas that you offer TommyMoore is indeed ..., a la Picasso , a powerful leap of the imagination and goes a long way in attempting to describe the ... - what Harold Innis and Marshall McLuhan called - ( when observing civilizations ( Innis ) or the extensions of the homo sapiens with his ever inventive tools..(McLuhan ),.. communications landscape and enduring and influential MINDSCAPES that ensue. Much like the gravitational field..., that never fails to pull in most of those who orbit around it`s technological outreach and impact and furthermore describes well the attempts made by all those who have gained an awakening and conscious individual and collective EPIPHANY ..which invariably encourages onward and outward and especially inward journeys of liberation and freedom..( in other words ) , all of the MIND OVER MATTER attempts to get out of the pull and gravity of Madison Ave.., as you so well depict with the story of
Myra Breckenridge, metaphoricaly speaking .

Turn your stare North TommyMoore and tell me what you see ... , what you sense , what you experience when attempting to describe the MIND OF CANADA *..

Thank for that, tommymoore.

When the majority of American voters actually know and actually care that 755,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq....then we might be talking progress. So far this so-called political shift, this so-called concern about the Iraq war is really still all about themselves.

Fully concur, Booker. Little things like Rumsfelt packing and guys like Rick Santorum gone, with the Senate majority leaning Democrat and a Democratic congress with enough numbers to push centrist agendas, there are definitely major changes happening in U.S. politics.

Major power has shifted here. Mountains are changing places. And with Rumsfelt gone, "here comes mr. CIA, Bob Gates."

Anyone know anything about this G man? Got the feeling its the prez's daddies pick on this one.

tommymoore

As I read your piece I thought of a passage from the end of one of Henry Miller's TROPICS, describing America in a similar vein. (would 'vane'be too blunt a pun?)
I enjoy USA quite a bit. When, as you say, America talks to itself, ads, politicians, tv and radio preachers (I grew up listening late at night to American preachers on Cincinnatti radio) I like to put in the name of another country - Ecuadorean Family Values- or another people- freedom loving Icelanders- just to see how it sounds.
Today, I think that some of the war industries down there are putting on some very effective tv ads, showing working people, military helping someone or other,gorgeous sunsets and then voice over (in a serious male voice) saying something about the company's committment to freedom and its defence.

I doubt the Dems will change very much down there. I think there will be pressure from their party handlers to keep from rocking the boat too much before 2008 presidential election. They'll try to keep people like Kucinich (one of my favourite American politicians...just can't believe that Cleveland keeps electing him) from getting too much say in things.
Maybe some of the arrogance of the White House will be ameliorated, but I doubt much change in policy.
As for investigations of wrong doing, I think that they might postpone that until after 2008...it'll be used as a threat, but I doubt they want to open too many worm cans.

Quagmire means to me that it is difficult to get out of, no matter who is in gvt. that will go on for some time yet, I fear.

the democrats win! big deal. even the ndp could have won that election.

Read it twice, Tommymore, its brilliant. Still blown away.

Info on Gates
http://www.eitb24.com/portal/eitb24/noticia/en/international-news/key-facts-former-cia-director-robert-gates-to-replace-rumsfeld?itemId=B24_19665&cl=%2Feitb24%2Finternacional&idioma=en

Rumour is that David Frum was a no-show for his scheduled appearance on a radio show in Canada this morning, HMMM?

Here is a link to some more of Kuntsler's writing .
http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/2006/06/altbrains.html
Kuntsler is a brilliant essayist and a favourite .

Nope Alci he was on Adler bleating like a stuck sheep as per usual .He took the Republican side of the debate (?)
Can't believe this nit wit is Barbie's lttle boy .

Thanks for the info, Nana. We've gone from bad to just as bad with the Rummy gone and Gates in. Bob's just another warhawk pick by daddy Bush senior that warmongers for what america does best in the world... deals arms for profit. And we all know what that means... defense contractors "knowing whats best" for america. Same old same O.

Here's some more good news.

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/sagaw291006.html

That's interesting Hannibal, I picked up the rumour he'd wedged out somewhere or other this morning. I expect ROn tape recorded him for us, I know he thinks Adler is a God.

I see you picked up the kunstler/tommymoore coincidence too.

You'll want to note what's posted in the other place.

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN... I PRESENT YOU DEMOCRACY*.. ( THE VERY WORDS SPOKEN BY A POET OF INTERNATIONAL RENOWN..*

It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.

It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on ...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN... I PRESENT YOU DEMOCRACY*.. ( THE VERY WORDS SPOKEN BY A POET OF INTERNATIONAL RENOWN..* ) ,

It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.

It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on ...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

AND OF COURSE ( NOT OFF COURSE) ) , BECOMES MORE POWERFULL WHEN THE POET CREATES THE MUSIC THAT WILL DRIVE HIS MESSAGE DEEP. PENETRATING THE VERY SOUL OF ANY WHO TAKES THE TIME TO EXPERIENCE HIS RHYTHM AND BEAT*

Not intentional but , what the heck..,
twice the pleasure .., simply add the music on the second time around..,

sorry about that !

Hannibal, and tommymoore too of course:

We've done tommymoore a disfavour. I've just heard from kunstler and the piece both of us thought 'sounded' like him is not his.

He did say he could understand why we'd thought it so - if that let's us off the hook.

Sorry tommymoore, who ever you are?

should be 'lets' above, not let's.

LET`S THINK ABOUT WHAT TOMMYMOORE SAID for a moment..,

think very hard and see if we can provide as profound and succinct and complete `cultural analysis ` as COYOTE likes to describe it..,

I , for one , would love to hear what the luminaries on this TYEE forum has to offer as to describing CANADA ...,
( Brain).., common , you`ve got the abiltity to rise to this kind of challenge.., I`ve seen it in you before !

As to attempting to provide a NARRATIVE to our identity , to our , not only road travelled , but to our mirror*...

A mirror of our own creation , a picture if you will that will provide and faithfully describe our NATION *..

Any takers ? Please do not put out the lights as you leave the room...,THANKS.

There are still some of us who inhabit this house who clearly are looking for the narrative , for the blueprint of how this house not only got built..but would dearly like to know , what are it`s weaknesses and on what kind of foundation that we sit on *..., ( WARTS and ALL ! )

Perhaps an attempt such as TommyMoore`s on our part , would go a long way in creating the kind of MIRROR that we all need when we get up in the morning to start another day..., `in the life of CANADA *`..

anyone?

Oh boy

NDP South (Democrats)in the U.S.

Whooppeee.

Good thing Rush Limbaugh is on the short list for Secretary of Defence .

To James Burns...
I`m disapointed , firstly in my inability to get across what I was really trying to say..., in my perceived rambling.., ( though I must confess that , as a story teller , and not use to the written word.., I am more comfortable telling my narrative .., in front of a live audience.., ( a situation that permits me to gauge the reception , and furthermore the feedback loop that live communications offers.., )..

What I can add to your observations.., is to agree completelly with your last sentence.. , ergo : let's not fool ourselves into believing this is a sign of anything other than the possibility of the beginning of the beginning of change. And I emphasize possibility.

( and leave it at that *..) for I believe that to be a very realistic assessment of how change comes about in such a complex environment as that of a NATION and it`s political culture that dictates invariably not only the outcome.., but the method arrived at as to a consensus by any population*...

I will chalk up the remainder of your comments as a frustration on your part of not really knowing or .. perhaps not really taking the time it would take , or even not really having the luxury of the time it would take to read all of my previous postings to distill out the meaning of my `intervention` in these discussions..,

If you would know me from other contributions I`ve made on the TYEE FORUMS.. , I am very open to exploration and discovery and approach all discussions with that end result in MIND..*

take care.., and I will be looking forward to other discussions or explorations/discoveries as I call them..,

village

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/11/07/midterm-results.html

This link more or less tells it like it is. But there are quips that are even more telling.

Bush's "we got a thumpin'", Rummies resignation, David Frums admission on BBC that the Republican era "is over". The message has come in.

Its no longer business as usual. Americans expect change and change is what happened last night. A month from now, what most think will be offical. Its a Democrat senate majority and a convincing Democrat congress including its governors! This is a Democratic government that can probe into the past and present and take daring bills to regulate corporate greed in the future, if its honest and its ideology is sound. It has a mandate to witch hunt if it so choses, to tackle the war on Iraq almost immediately through congress and later, the senate with only a weak and highly unpopular whitehouse to stop them, in a climate which cries "empeachment" if he dares to try. Let no one be fooled. Power has changed dramatically in the US of A.

But will the Democrats, who've complained more than they have suggested alternatives with Iraq, change the course for America?

A comment from David Beers a while back on this thread is most telling.

Make no mistakes, readers. The Democrats have the green light to:

- introduce a new energy bill designed to lower the consumption of energy in the transportation sectors through increased fuel efficiency and emmissions standards.
- a pharmacy bill that paves the way for generic production of prescriptions, and lowers the cost of prescription drugs for america.
- an increase in the minimum wage.
- a commission looking into whats best for the future foreign policy stance on Iraq and the rest of the middle east put forth both by congress, or the senate and to that end, it should be congress.
- increases to public education spending, particularly in the areas of student evaluations.
- increasing accessibility for homeless to get back on the "grid" with easy access identities, welfare and shelter.
- granted citizenships to illegal immigrants that have been working in the country for 10 years or more.
- reduce military spending in favor of shifting budgets to social domestic spending.
- regulating the shift in manufacturing jobs by corporations to other nations of the world.
- stricter health and nutrition guidelines on the food manufacturing industry.
- tougher insurance corporation standards that enforce coverage of what is promised by insurance corporations with health.

The american systems and institutions of government need to streamline their costs more effectively through the universality of services offered by and regulated by the governments at federal and state levels with everything from elections, to access by the people to save costs and confusion, albeit, with ripples of complaint by big business.

But comprimises are there. Increased fuel efficiency standards alone, could be all it takes for the Democrats to improve their environmental stance, decrease the importance of war in the middle east, and perhaps most importantly, save money for the consumer and at the same time, create potential for U.S. auto makers to pick up sales. Who wants to buy an domestically produced car or truck, when imports are cheaper to not only buy, but run? The Democrats truly have the power now for positive change, or fritter way such golden opportunities with the Republican same old same O.

And for here at home? The shrub stands alone, with a tone set for a potential Liberal majority, at the very least a minority in Canada, once again.

Alci I'll talk to you on the other site .
Something strange here .

To Brain,

these statements of yours were what I was pointing to in my reference to you earlier on:

`[/B]All in all, the democratic party is expected to deliver results on domestic issues and Iraq if they get either house, especially congress and if they get power in both houses, its a mandate to move on from a different foreign policy direction on Iraq and the rest of the world altogether.

The long and short of it is, governments have to govern. The democrats have to get spending under control, focus on domestic issues... there are some big battles coming up with the environment and energy, with the cost of pharmaceuticals, and with several key economic sectors including manufacturing and a shrinking domestic manufacturing base from continued outsourcing of labour. Illegal immigration, foreign policies... the American voters who vote the Democrats into congress are expecting results.

From here, the stage is set for battles in domestic issues where Bush veto's for big business, and the Senate stalls...

I see your point Steve with strategy favouring the Dems on a win on default scenerio potentially coming for the Democrats at a later date, but the Democrats, if they were to take both houses, could still blame the Iraq baggage on Bush through the next presidential election and if the Democrats were strong enough to say no to the oil corporate lobbies enough to continue to lower fuel consumption standards in big three manufacturing, with auto dealers and manufacturers could get an unexpected boost in sales, the democrats could see unexpected boosts in popularity if they govern. And if they don't? Their support goes soft. Either way, its theirs to win or lose with power in their hands which is how I'd want it, if I was an American Democrat voter.

A good analysis at that *.., it wasn`t your ego I was interested in , but celebrating your abilities to distil and reconstruct the consequence of this or that development .., within a political environment , indeed , you have the ability to extract some very detailed pointers ..., [B]thinking on your feet as I call it and able to flesh out the cause and effect dynamics of the moment*...,

If that flatters your ego .., so be it . I prefer thinking of it as a recognition of another`s talents.., you know their obvious strengths and the like.., ( as to your side bar reference to how Leonard Cohen might or might not fit into what I offered up as a reflection..- you know - his DEMOCRACY* poem.., then I feel you simply did not grasp my drift .., if you know what I mean *.. Try his FUTURE poem and song ..if you really want to see something very relevant to our discussions of the moment *.

P.S. .. I took the liberty while I was at it.. to use the spelling checker on your quote.., hope you don`t mind*..

As to all the others - readers and all- sorry for the fragmented and dispersed responses I provided today..., TIME AND MY CONTRACTUAL RESEARCH OBLIGATIONS dictated how I might be able to engage in this Forum today.., hence my tardy responses to some of your comments .

I`m still very excited by this Medium and I sincerely hope that participants will tolerate different styles and different optics.., because that`s what this is all about isn`t it?

[B]learning from each other
...
Thanks all who responded to what I had to offer ..

Must sign off now.. ,but will check in again when my research permits me *

Still hoping for an attempt by any brave thinker within this forum to have a go at a description that would live up to ...
TommyMoore`s brilliant attempt at describing the AMERICAN CHARACTER...

What of the CHARACTER of the people of CANADA ? Can we deduce by the responses we are getting within these election results that , as observers we are best at describing others..? ... perhaps we , unlike the people south of us , do too little communications , or whispering .., if you will , amongst ourselves.. Could it be that we do not know how to tackle the riddle, puzzle and enigma that is CANADA ?*

DUE PERHAPS TO OUR VERY OWN .., LACK OF COMPREHENSION OF WHO WE REALLY ARE AS A PEOPLE ?*.. [/B]

They may have "the green light" but it is meaningless because if they do get their Bills to the White House they will be vetoed and they don't have the votes to overturn a veto. Their control of the Senate is more apparent than real, and the Democrats are not a party with lock-step discipline. The next 2 years will set the stage for the 08 Presidential race, and the R's will be full court pressing on the D's failed legislative initiatives.

Interesting post Gerhardius. Don't know if you noticed the same point made earlier on this thread on election night; to which it was responded that such an outcome might not affect the Presidential race.

I'm still from Missouri and inclined to agree with your interpretation. If Bush's new best friends (who all seem to be from poppy's era) can get him out of Iraq in some kind of reasonable way - and if he has the sense to take some pragmatic advice - I'm not sure things will go all that swimmingly for the Democrats.

What do you need to overturn a Presidential veto? I thought it was 60 percent in the Senate.

Dems got the Senate, haha...wow i really didn't think they would

Dick Cheney shot his Lawyer in the face with a shotgun in Texas in the past 12 months.
* My question is - Who do we vote for? THE SHOTGUN or the shells.
** President Bush quoted " If I had a .22 calibre rifle I would kill Bin Laden ".
*** I did not have sex with that girl but I would have like to!! LOL

More good news for the Clueless one .
OTTAWA -- A new poll suggests Alberta is the only remaining bastion of federal Conservative party support, with the leaderless Liberals leading in every other region of the country.

The survey of 1,026 Canadians by Decima Research was taken in the four days after the Conservative government's controversial decision last week to break an election promise and tax income trusts.

The Conservatives still lead nationally, with 31 per cent support among decided and leaning voters, according to the Decima poll. The Liberals were next with 28 per cent, followed by the NDP at 18, the Bloc Quebecois at 10 and the Green party at nine per cent.

But just as Liberals used to get a "false sense of confidence" from national numbers skewed upwards by their Ontario dominance, pollster Bruce Anderson said in an interview Wednesday "the Alberta numbers for the Conservative party can give people a misimpression about how they're doing in the rest of the country."

Tory support in Alberta remains sky high around 65 per cent, he said. But the Liberals lead the Tories by an average of three percentage points in the rest of Canada, including positive margins in every region, including British Columbia.

That's a big reversal for Prime Minister Stephen Harper's party, which enjoyed a 10-point lead over the Liberals outside Alberta at the time of the Jan. 23 election.

"The Conservatives are back to a level they were in the run-up to the last election," Anderson said in commentary released to The Canadian Press with the poll.

"And in recent weeks they have seen their lead among women, urban voters, older voters and high income households dissipate."

Tory support among high-income Canadians and those over age 50 - while representing very small samples in the latest poll - spiked downward to an extent that the numbers were worth highlighting, said Anderson.

"They're neck and neck with the Liberals," he said, noting Conservatives had enjoyed a 10-point advantage in these high-voting constituencies for most of the year.

Anderson attributes at least part of the decline to fallout from the income trust decision, which cost investors - including many seniors' retirement portfolios - billions of dollars in short-term losses last week.

Nonetheless, the poll suggests the income-trust hit to the government "isn't cataclysmic."

What might be of more concern to Conservative supporters is the steady weight on public opinion of issues like the Afghanistan military mission, environmental policy and perceived ties to the weakened U.S. administration of George W. Bush.

None of the other traditional political parties has benefited, however.

"The Greens are biting from everybody," said Anderson.

The poll is considered accurate to within plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times in 20.

Yea, all signs are a go for a neo-Nazi majority .

Look for an upsurge in Alberta Separatism when the Harpocrit and his Quisling Party are reduced to a rump there.

Hannibal brought us,

The poll is considered accurate to within plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times in 20.

It's just a casual observation of mine, but it is that virtually all parties, left and right, seem to be eyeing "The Greens" as a possible retreat position right now, if their own current positions collapse.

The "Progressive" Conservative positions were the first to collapse of course, thereafter which some of their leading luminaries wound up in the Greens, one even leading them for awhile. (Names elude me. Immediately previous to the newly elected current one, whom I believe was a Liberal in a previous manifestation. Though I may have to stand to be corrected in this.)

The Neocons, even here, have at least over my time on Tyee have feigned some periodic sympathy with them, especially at election time, hoping to use them as a wedge against the NDP-, while some past NDPers seem to have moved over to them as well. Even the Liberal's offer them enticing verbal chocolates from time to time.

The Greens right now pivot around a motherhood issue, of course, with which nobody dare really entirely disagree, thence it is potentially useful as a fallback position for all of them. (Even the NDP who, in their current manifestation, are really more Liberal Party wannabes, many still cling to the NDP only for its being relatively easier and cheaper to secure a nomination in. If, however, it eventually fails and is actually swallowed up into the Rae/Dosanjh Liberals, the rump with no hope of securing a credible place there, just may seek to land in The Greens, the Land of Motherhood.)

The Vanguardists, which is really what all political parties aspire to be, across Left and Right, are all really Shape Shifters at heart-, as Fait might agree as well. In any case, it is my view. :-)

It's the opportunist "careerism" at the very core of all their beings which leads and shapes them all that way.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the man who held the purse strings for the Dems, Rahm Emanuel, made sure that only supporters of the Iraq war got funding. We may not see much change.

Certainly true Coyote.
Seventy two per cent of neo voters put down the Greens as their alternative .

Goodness, isn't that an interesting statistic Hannibal.

Do you have a source for this. (Conceding that I often forget or lose them as well.:-)

And I very much agree with Nana immediately above me here.

This entire process is all very much a deja vu experience for me, taking me back to the manipulations and electoral outcomes during Vietnam.

If it conttinues to echoe Vietnam so closely in this way, it will take "the street" to really decide it in the end. (Which was as slow to come into being then as it is now.)

"The Street" is the only real and effective political strategy for major change, and to really serve "the mass" interest anyway. And a point which "conditioned" conventional political mentalities are always slow to catch onto.

Coyote We have an interesting situation here in which the supporters of the Iraq War on both Dem. & Rep. sides have heavy ties to the Israeli Lobby. Pelosi, who is not really first in line (Conyers is, but he's against the war.)both has an Israeli son- in-law (so she gets the emotional pull)and a great deal of funding from The Lobby.

Pelosi, by the way is supposed to be richer than Bush and if in the unlikely happening that he and Cheney are impeached and the Senate convicts, she's Prez. All bases are covered on that front.

If you're still out there Nana, here's a link to an interesting resource. I'm sure you'll find it useful:

http://www.forward.com/forward-50/

Thanks for that Alci. The moral of the last few years has been, "See what the boys in the back room will have!" This time the boys are Rahm Emanuel and Charles Schumer.

Alcibiades:

overturning a Presidential Veto requires a 2/3 vote in both houses. There is simply no way for the D's to overturn a Veto without Republican support even if there is no modern equivalent of the "Dixiecrat." Towards the end of the legislative session the President may also use a "pocket veto" if there are fewer than 10 days left in the legislative session. Normally, a bill that is unsigned becomes law by default after 10 days at the Whitehouse, but if the session is nearing the end the President may simply ignore the Bill and let it die. That Veto has no way of being overridden.

Nana:

Conyers is senior to Pelosi, but he is not the senior D in the house. That distinction belongs to John Dingell, also from Michigan, first elected in 1955. There isn't really a "line" for the Speaker's chair that starts from the most senior, although that is a popular misconception. The prime perk of seniority is the committee appointments: Conyers will probably chair the House Judiciary Committee and Dingell will be chair of Energy and Commerce. Dingell is an interesting Member of Congress, he used to put forward a bill on National Health Insurance every couple of years. Dingell, as Dean of the House of Representatives, will swear in Nancy Peolsi as speaker.

This is all well and good on the war front but there is no way that the R's would let it get close for domestic reasons. Cheney would do an Agnew and open up the VP spot for a safe R nominee before things became too sticky. This person would have to be pro-war and willing to step in and veto the D's legislation should W leave office. The new VP would need to be confirmed by the House and Senate, but even with an apparent D majority this would not be a problem. The choice of a nominee for VP would be somebody tough to oppose, and any D opposition would be portrayed as "gridlocking" the process.

Can't Bush also make appointments from now until the end of the year without any fear of question or opposition since the current Congress remains in 'power' till then? The GOP may be lame ducks but until the new bunch are sworn in they aren't dead ducks.

I'm especially interested in how the US results impinge on our Prime Minister.
This morning's appearance of Bill Graham and Gil Duscep (I know the spelling is wrong but no idea what is correct) seemed semi important to me but I see zero discussion.
I'll keep looking

Quack! quack.
Harpo is also a lame duck soon to be a cooked duck in the next election .
He won't be hanging around with Ge
orgie a lot in the run up to the next campaign as the Shrub has zero suck at the moment .
Georgie is despised in this nation by a huge majority .
Nope both these clowns are finished as leaders of their respective parties .

Once upon a time..., in a land far far away...,

Good night and good luck folks..! ,

Just finshed Josh Green's long article on Hillary Clinton in the November Atlantic Monthly.

She may have a much bette chance of becoming President than I thought on election night.

It's an interesting article and she's quite an operator. In her own right.

As to Bill Clinton also being in town these days.. and proclaimed by our newspapers as the future potential FIRST HUSBAND.., ( I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE TERM `FIRST GENTLEMAN `.. , would better reflect and by ricochet continue the protocol representation - in a gender specific way..- by way of comparing.. what a FIRST LADY equivalent term would be replaced by..

, Welcome to Vancouver! , ( his name is quite in evidence at the border .. , and speaks of his residual presence within the collective psyche of Americans.., let alone the impact he seems to have on people of Vancouver itself..*.., ), though personally not enamoured by the celebrity system , I sense that a lot of people are.., why with the MEDIUM BEING THE MESSAGE AND ALL... and with an ever shrinking world.., GLOBAL VILLAGE and all, .......

I wonder if he could attempt the TommyMoore approach and provide a `cultural analysis `..., of CANADA?
Better yet .., me thinks somebody should make a point of him seeing TommyMoore`s essay on the AMERICAN CHARACTER and ask him what he thinks of it!

( He could offer some colourful anecdotes I`m sure .., of his experience with our nation and obviously could respond to TommyMoore`s powerful metaphoric painting of his homeland .)

My personal approach to all guest who visit my house ( of Canada , in this case ) , is to be civil and offer up an exploration and discovery option.., including DIALOG SESSIONS.., such as this one attempts..within the Tyee..*

So Bill , if you ever happen to read this particular magazine..,

Take Care, God Bless , and since my mother tongue happens to be the other official language of Canada..,

JE VOUDRAIS VOUS DIRE QU`ICI MÈME , DANS CETTE PROVINCE.., EXISTE DES ÉLÉMENTS DE BASE POUR LA RÉCONCILIATION ÉTATS-UNIS / CANADA... CAR CLAIRMENT ÉTANT UNE SÉPARATION DU RESTE DU CANADA .., NOUS AVONS IÇI MÈME.., TOUTE LES ÉLÉMENTS D`UNE CERTAINE ABSTRACTION , ET POUVONS PAR NOTRE POSTE D`OBSERVATION...( AUTANT POUR CE QUI DE NOTRE OPTIQUE ... EST/OUEST ..QUE POUR CELLE QUI EST DU NORD/SUD..,) , DONC , PENDANT VOTRE VISITE , IÇI MÈME , AU CANADA.., ET PARTICULIÈREMENT , CELLE EN COLOMBIE BRITTANIQUE.. J`AIMERAIS VOUS SIGNALER QU`IL EXISTE ..: ENTRE VOTRE VANCOUVER.., ( LA VILLE QUI SE TROUVE ET SOUVENT SE PERD.., DANS L`ÉTAT DE WASHINGTON.., ÉTANT DANS L`OMBRE DE PORTLAND ).. COMME LE FAIT QU`ELLE EST AUSSI.. ( OUT OF SIGHT , OUT OF MIND ).., POUR CE QUI DE L`AUTRE VANCOUVER QUE VOUS VISITER EN CE MOMENT *..

LE RAPPROCHEMENT DE SES DEUX VILLES.. HISTORIQUEMENT LIÉS.. IRAIENT LOIN .., DANS LE PONT .., CANADA - ÉTAT UNIS .., QUI SE DOIT D`ÈTRE CONSTRUIT *.., EN TERME HUMAIN .. , ( CAR LA DIMENTION POLITIQUE NE SUFFIT PAS.., POUR SE QUI D`UN RAPPROCHEMENT DURABLE.., ET ÉQUITABLE..)

And so after this very personal message delivered to a foreign dignitary.., I leave with a feeling this evening of having accomplished many objectives that I`ve tried accomplish through my
INTERVENTIONS.. within this particular FORUM*.., hope you can accommodate my very own and personal/intuitive leap!

and so having said this I`m ,once again signing off , one more time.. by saying..: GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK FOLKS..

I think, village, that Bill may require a translation.

I've never quite understood the public's fascination with Clinton. Though I like him quite a lot, the idea of actually paying $75. to listen to him - given that from all reports his speeches have a certain generic sameness to them - is truly foreign to me. Foreign to is the practice of our American neighbours to raise a man up onto a pedestal for the rest of his life simply because he had the good fortune to find enough donors to contribute to his political campaign along with the serendipitous and evanescent approval of the media of the day.

If we in this country are not capable of creating and defining our own character then I suspect Mr. Clinton will not be the motivating force.

My brothers and sisters in Quebec: Now that's another matter - I think they come closer to defining a distinct culture than the rest of Canada these days.

Just for fun, I ran Babelfish on Bill's all-caps French:

I'll make my own translation next, either tonight or in the morning, unless Bill would care to oblige....

I do take exception to the notion that Vancouver exists "in the shadow of Portland" and that Vancouver "loses itself into the State of Washington". This is a typically Central Canadian prejudice/premise about BC that comes from not comprehending/appreciating the shared history/society of the Pacific Northwest, particularly the cities of the I-5 corridor (if you count 99/499 as being the BC extension of I-5).

Here's a nice bit of racist crap from one of the same folks who carried the mail for George Bush and are now blaming the ........... for America's decline.

One possible word to fill in the blank, you can find it here:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200611140008

To Alcibiades : ( sorry for the tardiness in responding to your earlier post ).. thought that this particular Forum had exhausted itself )anyway here goes.., as to your reflections on your BROTHERS AND SISTERS in the Province of QUEBEC...

Firstly, LE QUÉBÉCOIS NEEDS TO FULLY GRASP THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HAVING BEEN PART OF THAT LARGER FAMILY ..., CALLED `LE CANADIEN `..., ( which actually roamed a much larger territory then the one LE QUÉBÉCOIS claims as his very own these days.., )

It is this CANADIEN* - the larger family thereof.., from which LE QUÉBÉCOIS is an offshoot- and is by extension but one of it`s branches -that needs to be fully understood...- ..and eventually it is the very people`s..( Les Canadiens* ) that finds their immediate roots in France.., for that is what became of the earliest of these French settlers that lived in CANADA.., in it`s earliest of days , months and years.

As to the territory called CANADA in the days of these pionneers ..,I leave up to the EXPLORATION and DISCOVERY that would be needed .., and this by following the traces of.. les

Courreurs de bois , voyageurs ,anyone ?

To skookum 1.., and also to Alcibiades..

THE TRANSLATION THAT WOULD PERHAPS BEST REPRESENT WHAT WAS ATTEMPTED IN THE OTHER OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF CANADA would go like this..: ( as to the message left for Bill Clinton to respond to..* )

I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT HERE , IN THIS VERY PROVINCE , EXIST BASIC ELEMENTS FOR A RECONCILIATION ergo.; UNITED STATES / CANADA .. FOR IT IS CLEAR THAT AS WE , IN BC ARE A SEPARATION FROM THE REST OF CANADA..., and because of this factor , WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO CREATE A CERTAIN ABSTRACTION ...(* AS MUCH AS IN TRYING TO GRASP THE `NORTH - SOUTH OPTIC ., . AS WITH THE EAST- WEST OPTIC ITSELF.., each dealing with the other...)

Therefore , during your visit , here in CANADA .., and in particular , the British Columbia component of that VISIT.., I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT THERE EXIST ..., between your VANCOUVER * ( the city that finds itself.. and often loses itself.., in the STATE OF WASHINGTON.., being , as it is in the SHADOW OF PORTLAND... ).. as with the other reality that it is also OUT OF SIGHT AND OUT OF MIND..,, , as to the other VANCOUVER`s awareness of this particular American city that bares the same name as the CANADIAN CITY of VANCOUVER that we experience up NORTH. The very city that you are visiting at this moment* ..

The `bridging of the gap `between these two cities.., Historically linked , would go a distance in creating the kind of BRIDGE ,... CANADA - USA.., which , is vital to be built.., in HUMAN TERMS.., through the shared histories.., such as the two VANCOUVER`S share...,, not yet experienced at the HUMAN AND CONSCIOUS .. INDIVIDUAL AND COLLECTIVE / LEVEL...( historically speaking as of yet..), [B]a BRIDGE , as I was saying that needs the `common touch of the people`s who inhabit both of these CITIES..., for it is very clear that the POLITICAL DIMENSION simply does not create the kind of BRIDGE... that needs to be seen as not only sustainable.., but equitable as well.., within the framework of PEOPLE... from all walk of life .., that can cut through the politics *..., of all of this *...

Alci... it is also where the CANADIAN* will find his very unique ROOTS..

To skookum 1.., as you can well surmise , the VANCOUVER alluded to in the message left for Bill Clinton .. was the `out of sight out of mind ` American city of Vancouver.., WHICH clearly is in the shadow of Portland..,

as in recent years the Mayor of that particular city had to stage a pho-0p event by smashing Starbuck`s cups,in frustration of finding in his Vancouver, cups that had Portland written on it..*..,

This particular American city has much challenges to overcome , as it`s very roots are strongly British , and in particular with the FUR TRADE.., this particular site..,in it`s beginnings.. as FORT VANCOUVER ..,was indeed the very epicentre of trade .., for the - what the HUDSON BAY COMPANY called..,
THE COLUMBIA DEPARTMENT -*..., which , by the way.., we in this province.., are the residual thereof..,of that great territory that not only BRITAIN coveted.., but as we know.., the emerging peoples of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA also..,not to forget CANADA either .. for they were all in motion and on the go.. as to becoming NATIONS*..

Meanwhile.., the expanding dream of the kind of CANADA that le coureurs de bois and voyageurs.. were experiencing..,along with the expansion of the fur trade itself..,there was created a vortex of events that were to eventually see.., territories abandoned.., in face of an increasing population of settlers.., arriving to the west of ..,what was the very beginnings of AMERICA itself.., as they like to call themselves at times..,

Thus the American.., gradually pushed any hopes of CANADIEN and for that matter CANADIAN ..permanent settlements in those territories.. , south of the 49th parallel.. and it is our province.. BRITISH COLUMBIA.. that remains as a testimony of our presence.. and reach..,to the south of our province*.., it is also the only vestiges that remain of the reach , breath and scope of the CANADA of old*..

When thinking of British Columbia..,
the keyword.. being COLUMBIA*.. * (think river ).. think voyageurs , think fur trade..* ..,think CANADA *.

Our history , is our memory.., and we desperately need to re-ignite it * so as to better understand our journey forward..,

For it is with a clear understanding of the past that we can then confidently take on the future *