Opinion

View from the Reichstag

In Berlin, I was told German history offers a lesson for Canadian democracy.

By Michael Byers, 26 Jan 2012, TheTyee.ca

Reichstag building

Inside the Reichstag, seat of Germany's parliament.

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The glass dome above the Reichstag provides spectacular views of Germany's capital city. But British architect Norman Foster designed the structure to highlight another view: looking down from the edge of the spectator platform, one can see directly into the Bundestag -- the German Parliament.

The symbolism is powerful: the people are above the politicians, and the workings of Parliament are transparent to them.

After the unification of East and West Germany in 1990, a grandiose new parliamentary building could have been constructed. But returning to the Reichstag provided a unique opportunity for psychological closure on six decades of dictatorship, war and division.

Adolf Hitler was elected and sworn in as chancellor of the Weimar Republic in 1933. Four weeks later, after the Reichstag was set on fire, Hitler blamed the opposition Communist Party, declared an emergency and seized absolute power. New laws eliminated opposition parties, trade unions, and the freedoms of speech, association, assembly and habeas corpus. The death of German democracy was sealed by the "Enabling Act," which gave Hitler's cabinet the power to legislate without parliamentary or presidential approval. The Act even allowed explicitly for the enactment of laws that were contrary to the constitution.

Nothing on this scale has ever happened in Canada, and this country is free of the institutionalised racism and violence that dominated and defined the Nazi regime.

But as I discovered at a workshop at Berlin's Humboldt University earlier this month, the dismantling of the Weimar Republic has made Germans unusually attentive to undemocratic developments -- including overseas.

Who's accountable to whom?

During a coffee break, a constitutional law professor quizzed me about Canada: "Is it true that your government has been shutting down Parliament?"

"Only temporarily," I replied, explaining that Canadian prime ministers are entitled to ask the Governor General to prorogue Parliament. Stephen Harper first did so in Dec. 2008, in order to avoid losing a fiscal vote and thus his government. He did so again in Dec. 2009, in order to avoid parliamentary scrutiny of documents relating to the practice of transferring detainees to possible torture in Afghanistan. In both instances, the Governor General granted his request.

Nevertheless, Harper's actions caused concern at home and abroad. As The Economist magazine observed on the second occasion, "The danger in allowing the prime minister to end discussion any time he chooses is that it makes Parliament accountable to him rather than the other way around."

My German colleague seemed to share that view: "Didn't the Canadian Parliament respond by declaring the government in contempt?"

"Not exactly," I replied. The contempt of parliament ruling came later, in March 2011, after the government refused to provide MPs with detailed cost estimates for its crime bills. And while no other government in the Commonwealth had ever been found in contempt, Harper cavalierly downplayed the importance of the ruling, saying: "You win some, you lose some."

Indeed, his Conservatives won a majority in the election that followed, which suggests that most Canadians were not particularly bothered by the finding of contempt.

"The real surprise," I explained, "is that Harper does not appear satisfied with the extensive powers that are normally available to a majority government."

I tell my German colleague about the government's practice of invoking closure, with a frequency never before seen in Canada, to prevent elected MPs from debating major legislation such as the omnibus crime bill and a bill that will add dozens of new seats to the Commons.

About how, increasingly, the government moves the business of parliamentary committees behind closed doors, so that it can conceal embarrassing documents and reject witnesses proposed by opposition parties without fear of public censure.

Warning, with a smile

Finally, I explain how the Federal Court ruled in Dec. 2011 that a bill to abolish the Canadian Wheat Board was illegal because it violated a statutory requirement to poll wheat farmers first. No matter: the government adopted the bill anyway.

This led Peter Russell, the doyen of Canadian constitutional law, to warn: "Canadians should understand that at stake here is not just a technical point of law, but the integrity of parliamentary government."

At this point, a wry smile crosses the German professor's face.

"Professor Russell is right," he says. "It's all about understanding. Here in Germany, we sometimes learn our lessons too late."  [Tyee]

62  Comments:

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  • judycross

    17 weeks ago

    The Dictator

    "The government could have avoided this issue by asking Parliament to repeal the entire Wheat Board Act, or at least Section 47. Instead, it took the position that it did not have to comply with the act’s requirements because one Parliament cannot bind another. So, in its view, it could simply ignore legislation passed by a previous Parliament."

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/does-it-matter-if-our-laws-are-passed-illegally/article2286544/

    Harper has declared himself above the law, so what do we do? Our votes are more meaningless than ever.

  • Jeffrey J.

    17 weeks ago

    Timely Article in Worrisome Era

    An excellent and timely article from Prof. Byers. The study of fascism, and its causes, is critical in failing democracies. Hitler's autocratic regime has been (rightly) linked forever with the Shoah, but similar lessons can be learned from 1930's Italy and Spain, (had the Shoah not occurred, many of Hitler's antidemocratic policies would have been downplayed over time). We are seeing the renewed rise of fascism around the world, including right here in Canada (and the US). As George Soros has warned,

    "The global economic system could collapse and riots on the streets of America are on the way." The 81-year-old said he’d rather survive than stay rich as the world faces an ‘evil’ period and Europe fights a ‘descent into chaos and conflict’.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091190/George-Soros-predicts-U-S-riots-insists-Euro-saved-global-economy-collapse.html

    Many, many tolerant people around the world are deeply concerned about the trajectory of the rise of corporate rule and autocratic rulers like Stephen Harper. For good reason.

    Great coverage from BC's most progressive media!

  • Kathleen O'Hara

    17 weeks ago

    Warnings ...

    I must thank Michael Byers for his "heads up" re: the Harper government. He has quite rightly mentioned the proroguings, contempt, and closures, along with the Wheat Board ruling. But he could have also pointed out Harper's general disdain for the laws and customs of Canada ... We can't forget Odagate, Carsongate, InandOutgate, Kenneygate, etc.,and the many public servants he has silenced (including scientists). Again, Byers is right to pass along the concern, even warning, of Germans. We can't let Harper become even a mild version of Hitler, even though their names differ by only three letters!

  • wiley

    17 weeks ago

    9/11

    Wow, a story that starts with the burning of the Reichstag so govt can dismantle democracy and consolidate power, and not even a mention of how Bush's 9/11 conspiracy copied the model again.

    Have we all gone back to sleep or what?

    I'm just holding my breathe waiting for the "terrorist bomb" to go off in Ottawa next.

    Transparency in government certainly isn't what Harper's all about: 50,000 layoffs and give all that "wasted money" to the military and cops so he's all ready for Plan C.

  • Perry

    17 weeks ago

    Is Canada free of institutionalized racism?

    "...this country is free of the institutionalised racism and violence that dominated and defined the Nazi regime"

    What about the genocide of indigenous people, the Indian Act, laws against customs and traditions, etc.? Whether or not the Indian Act still reflects institutional racism is debatable, but there is no question that there is still a deep strain of racism in Canadian society towards the First Nations, and that racism is sometimes reflected in political attitudes and policies.

    I agree with the rest of this article though. I see Harper as an anti-democratic enemy of the people.

  • Tankenka

    17 weeks ago

    Perry beat me to it! We very

    Perry beat me to it!

    We very much have institutionalised racism with the Indian Act.

    And like Perry, I want to thank Michael for the rest of his article. Succinct, warning us through clear examples of Harper's proclivity to break conventions and the law, and otherwise act as totalitarian as he can.

  • Dan the socialist

    17 weeks ago

    Indeed, his Conservatives won

    Indeed, his Conservatives won a majority in the election that followed, which suggests that most Canadians were not particularly bothered by the finding of contempt.

    =======

    39% is most? Strange arithmetic...

  • igbymac

    17 weeks ago

    Thanks for the concise read

    It should be obvious to all that the parallels between Nazi Germany and the USA are eerie. Also obvious is Harper's contempt for everything Canadian, including its people. What motivates a man to be so destructive?

  • crh

    17 weeks ago

    Great article Michael

    I wonder how many of that 39% that did vote for Harper actually know about the contempt ruling. The more important issues seem to get lost amongst the lesser ones, aided by big media, so voters don't make educated choices. I guess this is how the wrong people get elected. Well worth tweeting.

    Vielen Dank....

  • JIm

    17 weeks ago

    Playing the Hitler card is as

    Playing the Hitler card is as low as a so called professional journalist can sink. Although I don't always agree with the Tyee I respected the Tyee. I always thought the Tyee had more integrity than this, but boy was I wrong. This article is bush league.

  • canary

    17 weeks ago

    Right On Comparisons

    Some very startling comparisons here of how a naive, unsuspecting, more likely complacent (or better yet those who don't have time to think about the future ...and don't bother voting)ELECTORATE have allowed Canadian society to be HIJACKED!!!

    Better we should have heeded a hand-held poster by a young parliamentary page; Bridgette DePape when she warned against trusting this government- particularly it's "manager".
    I was alarmed to read today;how Harper says he is going to "transform" his country and deal with the Old Age Security part of the pension to Canadian citizens. He tells the Swiss/European and invited world economists that OAS would bankrupt the pension system.

    Interesting!!! Go after the low income pensioners in this country NOT folks in the 1% category or foreign corporations using our primary resources to their own benefit.

    Now I understand why he has been so determined to build more prisons when crimes are in amazing decline. He has decided that environmentalists are radical thinkers and speakers who would interrupt his Gateway Pipeline plans have become the enemy.

    As an older pensioner AND an environmentalist; I believe I am a canary in the B.C. coalmine demographic.

    I don't believe we can leave it to the First Nations chiefs to save us from oil spill disasters.We all have to rally against this declared dictatorship.
    Don't we still live in a sort-of-democracy?

  • Lefty

    17 weeks ago

    For what it's worth

    Nazi-Zionist Collaboration
    by Jews Against Zionism and Anti-Semitism,
    Melbourne, Australia.

    http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres6/BAZO.pdf

  • Van Isle

    17 weeks ago

    With Harpers speech today in

    With Harpers speech today in Davros, he has declared war on Canadians who disagree with him.

  • Fritz

    17 weeks ago

    Pretend Democracy

    Until the law is changed and we stop pretending
    corporations are "persons" and they
    are no longer allowed to fund elections
    and only people who are registered to vote may fund them this farcical democracy is only going to get less democratic.

    Some day there will be a kicking in of the rotten door by the dispossessed.

  • RickOshea

    17 weeks ago

    Fragile

    Germany proved how fragile democracy and civil society is - I am sure sure if you told most Germans in the early 30's their democracy, legal system etc - the bedrock of their civil society - was about to suffer a catastrophic failure, no one would have believed it.

    Look at the USA - who can believe how quick and easy it was to disabuse American citizens of their constitutional rights, legal protection etc - they have lost it all - Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, Home Grown Terrorism Act, NDAA. For Americans, Habeas Corpus and Posse Comitatus is gone, indefinite military detention is in since the NDAA was signed 01-Jan-2012 while Americans were hung over and not paying attention.

    It's surreal, we are only waiting for the other shoe to drop - the POTUS has appropriated supreme power so -- what's up? History tells us when a coup d'etat like this takes place, a great deal of foreboding is in order... surely, something wicked this way comes.

    And the kicker is, Harper opened the doors wide open and invited all this dysfunction/evil in to Canada with his Perimeter Security agreement and all the other un-holy 'arrangements' (NORTHCOM Civil Assistance Plan) he has made with the American military. Who knows what Harper has signed on to. I shudder to think - the Straussian plutocrat holds Canadian citizens and parliament beneath contempt and does everything in secret. At this point, nothing would surprise me - absolutely nothing.

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    Fritz

    We don't know where you live but if you are Canadian we would like to draw your attention to the fact that corporations' donations to political parties is unlawful at the Canadian federal level.

    If you have any information that this law against corporate donations to federal political parties has been broken, it is then your responsibility as a citizen to advise the appropriate law enforcement agencies.

    Further information can be learned here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_political_financing_in_Canada

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    Michael Godwin ....

    In the British and Canadian parliamentary systems, the legislature is typically prorogued upon the completion of the agenda set forth in the Speech from the Throne, called in the UK the legislative programme, and remain in recess until the monarch, governor-general, lieutenant governor, or governor summons parliamentarians again. "

    For What it's Worth.

    Parliament has been prorogued 105 times in its history.

    That works out to about every once every 15 months.

    Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien prorogued government four times between 1993 to 2003, while Stephen Harper has prorogued Parliament three times since 2006.

    We presume that you explained all this to your anonymous German Law Professor friend. Just so as he could have a perspective and all the facts.

  • Eduard Hiebert

    17 weeks ago

    Proroguing of parliament the 21C equivalent of burning...

    Since the second prorogation, from my corner I have seen Harper’s use of prorogation as the 21st century equivalent and am well pleased that people of a higher public profile like Michael Byers have now come just short of seeing our PM as being without cloths!

    Of an otherwise excellent article, I offer one correction. Its to our collective disservice when when we perpetuate the half-truth lie that Harper has a majority. From Elections Canada data, the Haper clan of MPs, all together were only supported by less than 30% of all Canadians who voted in 2011 and as pointed out earlier, that going forward with all provincial and federal elections, we the 99% have the democratic power to occupy the election outcomes and stop stop the divide and conquer process made possible by the single-mark ballot, if we but mainstream the model outlined in www.vote123.ca

    For those who are quick to call Harper Fascist I would remind them of Benito Mussolini’s words as a better proactive understanding of it’s origins: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power." - (cited by Lewis Lapham in Harper's, January 2002)

    Lastly, I much appreciate as well, judycross, Kathleen O'Hara and Perry beginning the process of compiling Harper’s record.

  • Eduard Hiebert

    17 weeks ago

    Proper parliamentary use of proroguing defined...

    Correcting the record of someone putting matters into perspective, thanks for stating succinctly that the parliamentry system routinely prorogues parliament "upon the completion of the agenda set forth in the Speech from the Throne". That qualifier was entirely missing in Harper's first two abuse of process applications.

  • Okanagan Orchardist

    17 weeks ago

    Going back to the last federal election...

    It is extremely difficult to teach old dogs new tricks as the saying goes. It is also nearly impossible to convince an old voting citizen (and I would guess these to be in the majority of voters), to change their minds once they have been made up, after all, you don't want to appear gullible. The problem where I live in BC is that there are a lot of old retirees from Alberta living here, and having voted Conservative all their lives, you couldn't get them to change their minds even if you lit a fire under their rear ends.
    As an example, I wrote a letter which was published in all the Okanagan papers last April 22 regarding the "crimes against the people of Canada" committed by the Harper government. I listed categorically the most important of those from the website: www.shitharperdid.ca. I was rebuked in those same papers by Harper voters, suggesting I should be ashamed of myself. For what? Telling them the truth? "crh" suggested that voters don't make educated choices. I would go one step further and quote from a British letter-writer to the Guardian who said: "There are a lot of stupid people out there." I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has attempted to educate the BC voters. And what have we got for it? Nothing but s**t and abuse.

  • igbymac

    17 weeks ago

    realisticman

    get real.

  • thetscherman

    17 weeks ago

    Here in Germany, we sometimes learn our lessons too late.

    ...sometimes?

    I'm German. So I may ask this.

    I'm too young (61er) to respond to things regarding Hitler (who was an Austrian guy) - but see that there are still things going on that ways out in the world.

    It is clear that governmental parties in one or more ways, especially if they are loosing ground, trying to focus and enhancing their powers. One basic thing we should all have learned from the history: Give the last decision taking power - to the people. Not the least one. It should be possible for the majority to decide AGAINST things, if they are not good for the people.

    This is a major point I saw grinning when I followed your fighting against HST during last year. That things cannot and will not happen here in Germany. Possibly this is true for whole EU, that we are not in the position anymore to refuse.

    During the last two decades several laws against the people manifested. Big discussions followed but laws came yet. Some went to far (like a general 'preventive' surveillance law). The sad thing: Just our local administrative courts were able to stopping it. Seeing it positive: There are 'still' some possibilities that making it hard for some parties to getting more power. Power concentrations are always a bad thing.

  • Peter Stockdale

    17 weeks ago

    Our Dear Leader

    Even 10 years ago it would have been unthinkable. A Dictator in Canada? The resemblance to the late Adolf is uncanny. Elected democratically, promised full employment, order in the streets. Even the the same methods: Employment via the arms industry (fighter planes), public safety via prisons (concentration camps) rewards for the chosen ($70K for trips to meetings from fishing camps vs $3K for more junior colleagues). Fiscal responsibility achieved via inheriting $15B from the previous Government and spending another $50B before the recent election for a total of $70B. A Record to be proud of - Woe Canada.

  • snert

    17 weeks ago

    This article is a crock.

    I could be wrong but it seems to me that at some point the editor of this on-line rag requested people to back off on making references to the Nazis or Hitler. Why this garbage?

    The paranoia that shows in a lot of the comments is mind numbing.

    Certainly there are individual events or thoughts that could be pointed out as being similar to what is perceived to have happened in the past but collectively they are a long, long, long way away from peoples irrational fears ever becoming the truth.

    I'll ask again as I have done in the past, why would someone who supposedly aspires to take over the world for a 1000 year reign want to abolish the gun registry.....and destroy all the collected data? Doesn't sound very megalomanic to me.

    This is probably one of the reasons Canada will never attain true greatness. Too many people are prepared to offer nothing but destructive criticism.

  • Qarlos

    17 weeks ago

    Rolling Coups

    What happened in Germany in the 30's can be described as a "rolling coup": incremental erosions of liberties and rights. History might not repeat but it sure is rhyming. I believe this is what is happening in post 9-11 USA.

    This article furthers my suspicion that the relationship of Canada to the USA is in an analogous to Austria and Germany in the '30's. Has an amerocanuck Anschluss already happened? NAFTA is a strong step in that direction.

  • Worrywart

    17 weeks ago

    Limited Mainstream Reporting

    If we had an unbiased media in Canada people would fully understand the economic failure of Harper and the other Cons.
    Imgaine the arrogance of a party that plans to massively increase privatized prison spending, while crime rates are decreasing. The press could have a field day with these incompetents and Harper would be laughed off the Hill. Instead we have the kook in Davos telling the world how to act. What a joke!
    In addition, corporate taxes in 2006 were 22% and they are now about 15%, for an annual revenue loss of around $11B. This is why the Cons have to cut, they created a financial crisis to implement their far right agenda . Crisis capitalism by the book!

  • Eduard Hiebert

    17 weeks ago

    How comforting! In Harper's own words!

    Statement by the Prime Minister of Canada on International Holocaust Remembrance Day

    January 27, 2012
    Ottawa, Ontario

    Prime Minister Stephen Harper today issued the following statement to mark the United Nations’ annual International Day of Commemoration to honour the victims of the Holocaust:
    “On this solemn 67th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, the largest Nazi concentration camp, I join Canadians and the international community in commemorating the millions of men, women, and children, who suffered, died and lost loved ones during one of the most heinous chapters in human history.

    “Through indescribable atrocities, the fundamental and universal principles of freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law were desecrated during the Holocaust.

    “As we mourn those who were murdered by the Nazis more than six decades ago and honour the legacy of those who survived, let us use the lessons of the past to remind us of the importance of tolerance, and inspire us to take a stand against hatred and discrimination, including anti-Semitism in all its forms.

    “We must never allow the crimes of the past to be repeated or forgotten.”

    From the Prime Minister's Web Site (http://www.pm.gc.ca/)

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    igbymac

    If you think that there is something unreal in what I wrote then please advise us.

    The brevity of your comment seems nothing more than a heckle.

    It's also worth advising our European friends and professors that the ending of the Wheat Board monopoly was actually the removal of government powers over the one region of Canada that it strangely existed. This was the lessening of state control and the leveling of the playing field. Farmers that wished to not sell their barley to the state monopoly will no longer risk being jailed. There also was a vote by farmers in March 2007, where 62% voted to end the wheat board's barley monopoly. It's worth noting that this 75 year old operation was created during the Great Depression of the 20th Century. Australia created a similar state monopoly during the Depression and disbanded it in 1999.

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    So Mikey. How's that Contempt thingy goin' for ya?

    On March 25, 2011 the opposition parties coalesced to end the Stephen Harper government of the day, with a vote of no confidence led by Michael Ignatieff of the Liberal Party.

    In the subsequent election Ignatieff lost his own seat in the Liberal Party's worst showing in its history. He resigned on May 3, 2011.

    The leader of the Bloc Quebécois also resigned following that party's collapse in the same election.

    Stephen Harper, the leader of the Conservative Party was re-elected, with a larger vote than he had ever before received.

    Canada continues to economically outperform all other members of the western world and unemployment levels remain low, with labour shortages in Alberta and Newfoundland.

    Many Canadian prisons that were built well over a hundred and fifty years ago will gradually be replaced with modern facilities, even though many opposition members seem to have a nostalgic preference for the primitive relics.

    The Canadian F18 aircraft fleet will eventually have to be replaced and, although the previous Liberal government entered into a contract for Lockheed F35s, this program is under review and no substantial firm contract has yet been signed.

  • Frank

    17 weeks ago

    JIm

    I call BS. You've been around the Tyee as long as I have, and from those very first weeks on all you've ever done is complain about what the columnists here have written.

    So don't suddenly pretend you're shocked and appalled, you're always shocked and appalled.

  • Frank

    17 weeks ago

    Besides

    Lots of us find right-wing politics pretty much same-old same-old. Both the ideology and the fist-pounding hasn't changed much.

    For example I don't see a lot of difference between the right-wingers in the 1930s that thought Roosevelt was a communist and the right-wingers today that think Obama is a communist.

    Nor do I find a big difference between Canadian right-wingers today saying environmentalists are anti-Canadians and funded by foreign interests with right-wing Germans in the 1930s that believed everyone who wanted a better society was a Bolshevik serving foreign interests.

  • igbymac

    17 weeks ago

    it is a heckle, realisticman

    I know it's been explained and documented to you numerous times before about prorogation of Parliament and the distinction between what Harper did and its typical use. I know because I've explained it to you myself.

    You ignore the facts and the law - including its spirit, making you subject to heckling.

    Again, get real.

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    igbymac

    You ignore the facts. I just copied and pasted them from experts more knowledgeable than you or I. The Canadian parliament has been prorogued 105 times in its history, about once every 15 months. In the last parliament the opposition parties made a big stink of it and many Canadians heard about prorogation for the first time.

    It was played up as something extraordinary and the opposition thought they could topple the government. Where were those three leaders a few weeks later?

    Why this constant petulance over a failed strategy and complaint? Do you want another election now?

  • JIm

    17 weeks ago

    Frank as you probably know I

    Frank as you probably know I rarely comment anymore but I have been reading the articles none the less. Like I said I don't agree with much from the tyee but playing the Nazi card is bush league no matter what your ideological preference is. the fact it came from a law prof makes it even more absurd. You could even compare this propaganda piece to............

  • Granville

    17 weeks ago

    Judy Cross: Now you know what the Occupy movement is about.

    There is a terrific little 1978 movie called "Power Play". It is also known as "Operation Overthrow" and "State of Shock".

    The cast included Peter O'Toole, Barry Morse, David Hemmings and Dick Cavett. The plot was that a small group of disgruntled politicians staged a coup d'etat, only to find that one of their group was staging his own counter-coup.

    "Those are not OUR tanks out there. They are MY tanks", says Peter O'Toole to his fellow conspirators.

    Stephen Harper IS behaving like a pocket dictator. Suspending parliament was a sinister move and he is behaving like Adolf Hitler in many respects. The scariest part for me is that CANADIANS DON'T CARE.

    I have lived here for almost 40 years and the similarity between the acquiescing Germans and acquiescing Canadians hit me like a brick - 39.9 years ago. It manifested itself in - of all things - the way we behave at traffic lights. We tend to obey the "do not walk" signs. The only other nation that does that in my experience is the Germans. Other countries use common sense.

    The other way it shows is in our response to ambulances. It is absolutely right that we stop to allow ambulances to pass us on the highway, but not when they are going the other way on a divided highway.

    The latest police tactic of blocking the right lane of a road to write a speeding ticket is purely a show of force. Police in other countries are required by law to only stop vehicles in safe places. In England, traffic is too dense for the RCMP to stop the world like that. They get killed by passing cars if they try it.

    canadians have too much respect for the law and for the cops. In any other country, when the cops kill a teenager in a minor crime, thousands of people riot. In BC, it happens every month.

    I suggest that if you added up all the people who have died in police custody over the last 20 years, you would find that the VPD and RCMP in BC have killed more people than Robert Pickton. Sadly, I am not joking.

  • Frank

    17 weeks ago

    r'man

    "the opposition thought they could topple the government"

    No, the opposition KNEW they could topple the government on any money bill or confidence motion.

  • Frank

    17 weeks ago

    More similarities

    Of course Harper claimed the Reichstag was on fire or a coup was in progress or something and got an ex-CBC staffer to agree with him.

    I expected him to start wearing a general's outfit with lots of medals and dark sunglasses after that.

  • igbymac

    17 weeks ago

    realisticman

    1. You know nothing specific about my expertise so it's best you restrain your comments to the substantive issue we are discussing.

    2. Prorogation is used routinely, but Harper's specific use of it (x2) was anything but routine. There wasn't even some viable explanation that coincided with it, as when Chretien prorogued to usher in the Martin government while it timely avoided the tabling of the first report on the Sponsorship Scandal.

    Your lack of political and legal understanding regarding the subtleties on this matter are glaring. In short, Harper's implementation was abusive though not sufficient to bring down the government. But one would hardly expect a transgression of this magnitude being used for anything more than political talking points considering Parliament itself condones the war crimes going on under Harper (as it did with Chretien ...).

    I am completely neutral regarding a federal election. They are meaningless political pageants which offer no effective outlet for the will of the people at large. I'd go so far as to say the people themselves no longer even know what they want, their brains so bombarded with propaganda by the powers that be.

    However, I would welcome the strict application of the rule of law of our Constitution which would usher Stephen Harper et al, for various unspecified matters, to jail. But I am not holding my breath.

  • igbymac

    17 weeks ago

    Jim

    Perhaps you could be more convincing if you delineated just why the similarities between the Harper-led Canadian government and the rising Nazi regime are not important? On the face of it, there is nothing bush league about juxtaposing the current events with historical ones and perhaps learning from it in the process.

    Your outrage, or whatever it is?, seems like a PC comment made on something controversial or socially taboo. The argument, or so it goes, is nothing can compare to the atrocities of Herr Hitler so it is patently unfair to draw even the most tangible correlations of act.

  • Janice

    17 weeks ago

    View from the Reichstag

    I really resent people abroad being told or being allowed to think the imposter in the PM"s seat received a majority from Canadians, that Canadians actually were stupid enough to choose him. He got 39%. That is not a majority. It is interesting that Putin in the recent Russian elections felt 50% was required for an authentic display of support for his party. He had to cheat to get it, of course. In Canada it is not necessary to cheat because 39% is a "majority" unter this antiquated electoral system. What we have in Canada is a thin veneer of pseudo democracy whose main purpose is to delude and shut up the majority of the population, and even that thin veneer is too much bother for the current government. At least in Russia people had the guts and awareness to protest.

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    Janice

    I wouldn't worry too much about what people abroad are being told. Neither would I try and control what they be allowed to think, especially when it's really semantics.

    Majority: from French majorité, from medieval Latin majoritas, from Latin major.

    The greater number.

    A party or group receiving the greater number of votes.

    The Conservatives did win a major proportion of the votes.

    The age when a person is legally considered a full adult, in most contexts either 18 or 21.

    Strictly speaking, majority should be used with countable nouns to mean ‘the greater number’: : the majority of cases. The use of majority with uncountable nouns to mean ‘the greatest part’ ( : I spent the majority of the day reading), although common in informal contexts, is not considered good standard English. 2 Majority means more than half: : fifty-one out of a hundred is a majority. A plurality is the largest number among three or more. Consider the following scenarios: If Anne received 50 votes, Barry received 30, and Carlos received 20, then Anne received a plurality, and no candidate won a majority. If Anne got 35 votes, Barry 14, and Carlos 51, then Carlos won both the plurality and the majority.

    In British usage: The number by which the votes for one party or candidate exceed those of the next in rank.

    The same usage is used in Australia and other places.

    Perhaps we should change our system to the more American description and use the word 'plurality'.

    ORIGIN late Middle English : from Old French pluralite, from late Latin pluralitas, from Latin pluralis ‘relating to more than one’.

  • Granville

    17 weeks ago

    Proroguing parliament shows contempt for democracy

    Doing it twice in one term of office smacks of fascism. It is the kind of tactic used in wartime.

    I think Realistic Man is speaking English, but it could be Granola-talk too. First past the psot is first past the post. (S)he who gets most votes wins the election.

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    igbymac

    I do not ignore the facts and we all know that the prorogation was routine and was tested in law at the Federal Court. Democracy Watch didn't like it and we can assume that neither did you, perhaps because you didn't like the spirit of the convention. The Court ruled that nothing was illegal and if any parliamentarians wish changes then the Constitution must be changed to enshrine any new rules.

    Aside from that any complaints have been considered. Other comments regarding what you describe as "unspecified matters" are, in this case, diversionary and, to paraphrase you, are not germane to the substantive issue under discussion.

    Citation:
    Conacher v. Canada (Prime Minister), 2009 FC 920, [2010] 3 F.C.R. 411
    Date:
    September 17, 2009
    Docket:
    T-1500-08

    "Held, the application should be dismissed.

    (1) The Prime Minister’s power to advise the Governor General to dissolve Parliament can be seen as a prerogative because it is discretionary, it is not based on a statutory grant of power and has its roots in the historical power of the Monarch. The justiciability of a prerogative depends on whether its exercise affects individual rights or legitimate expectations. The Prime Minister’s advisory power at issue herein was not reviewable because no such rights or expectations were affected. It was a matter of policy reviewable only on Charter grounds. However, because prerogative powers must be exercised in accordance with the law, the Federal Court did have jurisdiction, pursuant to paragraph 18.1(4)(f) of the Federal Courts Act, to consider whether section 56.1 had been violated. The same could not be said about the Federal Court’s jurisdiction to hear arguments concerning the existence of constitutional conventions. While the Federal Court has jurisdiction to consider constitutional issues on applications for judicial review, constitutional conventions are not law. As such, paragraph 18.1(4)(f) does not give it the authority to determine their existence. Here, the matter of convention was political in nature and was outside the jurisdiction of the Court. ..."

    http://reports.fja.gc.ca/eng/2010/2009fc920.html

  • BDD63

    17 weeks ago

    Thank You Realisticman

    I have been plagued of late, by insomnia, but your endless prattle and useless quoting of the OED and whatever else you dredge up on Google has so bored me senseless that my poor brain can finally bathe in the waters of sleep. Ah sleep that knits up the ravelled sleeve of care. Realisticman it's a shame you cannot bottle yourself. You would make a fortune as you are such a pill.

  • igbymac

    17 weeks ago

    realisticman

    You are digressing to the absurd. I am not sure you comprehend what the ruling said based on your citing it as evidence of Stephen Harper doing no wrong.

    Prorogation is a discretionary power and convention. Harper contravened the very typical convention of its use. He used it for political gain (as arguably did Chretien as I earlier mentioned). His double prorogation was effectively his ruling without Parliament. Now go read up on the Glorious Revolution and possible outcomes of such unilateral acts.

    I mentioned "unspecified matters" in my brief reply to you bringing 'a new election' to the discussion. Obviously there's nothing diversionary about answering your question in a general sense, but perhaps you forgot what you were going on about beforehand.

  • Granville

    17 weeks ago

    Proroguing parlaiment was the tactic of as scoundrel

    It sets a very dangerous precedent. There is no justification for doing it, except in time of national emergency such as a war, or a national catastrophe. To use it as a device to stay in office as a minority government is contrary to democracy. It does avoid "no confidence" motions but that is all it does.

    Omnibus bills that contain a budget, wrapped around laws that change the laws pertaining to navigable waterways are another example of antidemocratic behaviour. They have become the norm in Ottawa.

    Harper is not the exception of Conservative methods; he is the embodiment of them. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing and should be considered as a "dangerous political offender".

    At this moment, I would actually prefer to see Bob Ray in 22 Sussex Drive, and I don't like him either. He is at least, scrutible. Like a true mandarin, Harper is inscrutible.

    Realistic Man is talking the Canadian dialect of officialese, a language composed entirely of weasel words. He makes sense in the same way a brick floats, which is not at all.

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    Granville

    Bob thanks you for your backhanded endorsement. The Liberal Party is considering using your description as a caption for this pic.
    "A Scrutable Mandarin"

    http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1319124633253_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=650x

  • RickW

    17 weeks ago

    22 Sussex Drive is OK

    Just so long as he isn't installed in 24 Sussex..........

    But no matter. Whoever resides in the official residence of Canada's PM, the ghost of Jack will send them packing.

  • Troutsky

    17 weeks ago

    Frog finally notices frying pan

    Less timid observers have noted that the fascist coup took place on September 11th, 2001.
    What occurred on May 2nd, 2011, was the final loss of any hope of resisting inclusion in the Empire democratically.
    We all know what is necessary.
    Can we get on with it ?

  • igbymac

    17 weeks ago

    Troutsky

    Less timid observers have noted that the fascist coup took place on September 11th, 2001

    Let's get shopping! ;)

  • realisticman

    17 weeks ago

    igbymac

    In civilized societies we now can rely on courts to determine the culpability or lack of it of any persons, including public officials, accused of digressing from established rules of law.

    I presented the legal ruling that was adjudicated subject to the incident, yet you seem reticent to accept it.

    Do you not agree with the convention?

  • insolentpeasant

    17 weeks ago

    anyone have a guillotine?

    Dammit, as of now i declare war on Stephen Harper and his motley crew. The only positive i'm guessing about our fearless leaders rule is that I can buy a rifle easier now.

  • nyliram

    16 weeks ago

    View from the Reichstag

    I remember a time about 5-10 years after the end of WW2, it was common to say, with some scepticism.."How could the Germans not know what was happening."
    For a while I have thought.."How can we not know what is happening?" Our children will hold us accountable, especially if we do not practice all the resistance that we can.

  • igbymac

    16 weeks ago

    realisticman

    In civilized societies ...

    Canada, a civilized society? Surely you jest!? Shame.

    we now can rely on courts to determine the culpability or lack of it of any persons, including public officials, accused of digressing from established rules of law.

    Double shame.

    I do understand how you came to reach such a conclusion about the 'reality' of our legal system. I just think it is naive. And, after a certain age provided there has been sufficient inquiry, holding tight to such a view is tantamount to wilful blindness.

    The exceptions to the theory of our jurisprudence, particularly with matters pertaining to the important people within the power structure and their transgressions, will fill volumes.

    Again, prorogation is a discretionary power but it's applicable use is one of convention, a certain framework of precedent so to speak. Harper went markedly outside of this framework, twice.

    It's a matter of Harper not behaving in good faith and without due respect for Parliament. Though clearly his behaviour is not criminal or unconstitutional, it's indicative of his authoritarian mindset as PM.

    And as the Glorious Revolution illustrates, there can be consequences unforeseen for such acts.

    I've said enough. My point is abundantly clear and whether you care to follow it or not is entirely up to you.

    Cheers.

  • realisticman

    16 weeks ago

    igbymac

    I'm sorry for you but you loos again.

    You say, "prorogation is a discretionary power but it's applicable use is one of convention, a certain framework of precedent so to speak. Harper went markedly outside of this framework, twice. "

    In the Canadian parliamentary system, the legislature is typically prorogued upon the completion of the agenda set forth in the Speech from the Throne. Stephen Harper did not deviate from this convention and the Federal Court said so. Neither the prospect of a coalition coup nor the opposition demand for information regarding the custody of prisoners in an international overseas conflict, which could be construed as confidential information between allies, could be even remotely considered as within the agenda as declared in the Speech from the Throne.

    As I said before; we have the rule of law and the vast majority of Canadians want to keep it that way. Anything other, that you might suggest, is uncivilized. Any disagreement is just an opinion.

  • igbymac

    16 weeks ago

  • Maria_Octo

    16 weeks ago

    Those who fail to study history,

    @JIm
    Those who fail to to study history, are doomed to repeat it. Since Nazi Germany is a piece of history we don't ever want to repeat, we need to study it, learn from it, and compare the situation today to the situation that lead to the rise of Nazi Germany. The article does that.

    @igbymac
    I think JIm's reacting to Godwin's Law. "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." Godwin's law is a bit of a problem on the internet. People invalidly compare this or that to the Nazis.

    However, as I mentioned above, in this case, the comparison is worth making. How is the CPC acting like the Nazi party of Germany? Could Harper pull a similar stunt as Hitler? Could Harper, in an effort to prevent dissent, find an excuse to use the Emergency Measure's Act? These are valid questions and ones worth examining. But they are not unique to the CPC or Harper. The FLQ crisis gave Trudeau an excuse to use the War Measures Act. So it's not like we haven't had these threats before. We need to look at EVERY PM, and especially those with a majority government, with a very careful eye. Germany in 1933 demonstrated that liberty is a very fragile commodity.

    The powers of the GG have been effectively eroded over time that here in Canada, it is increasingly more possible for a PM to invoke the EMA and turn himself into a dictator. If our previous GG had not allowed Harper to prorogue in 2008, it might have been a different matter. While I know she didn't want to set precedence, I'm afraid she effectively did, and in effect, the GG no longer has the option of refusing a request to prorogue. It is important that the GG, under certain circumstances, asserts their reserve powers now and again, to ensure that PMs don't get out of line.

  • Gustav

    16 weeks ago

    To set the record straight

    @Realisticman

    "We all know that the prorogation was routine and was tested in law at the Federal Court."

    Harper's (ab)use of the prorogation power in 2008 and 2009 was never tested in court. The Federal Court case referred to above concerned the legality of the Harper Government's dissolution of Parliament in September 2008. Duff Conacher, on behalf of Democracy Watch, claimed that Harper's decision to call a snap election contravened the fixed date election law passed by Parliament in 2007. Under the terms of that law, federal elections are to be held every four years (from the date of the previous election) unless, during that period, the government is defeated in the Commons on a confidence vote.

    The Federal Court rejected Conacher's claim on the grounds that the statute, as written, expressly left unimpaired the Governor General's prerogative power to dissolve Parliament, a power which by convention s/he only exercises on the advice of the PM. The Federal Court's decision was later upheld on appeal to the Federal Court of Appeal.

    Note that in the excerpt provided from the Federal Court's decision, the court ruled that it lacked the jurisdiction to determine the existence of constitutional conventions--including, by implication, any conventions regulating the use of the prorogation power. But that it is not true of the superior courts of the provinces or of the Supreme Court of Canada. Those courts can, and do, give opinions on the existence of constitutional conventions when requested by provincial or federal cabinets by way of the reference procedure. In its most famous ruling on a constitutional convention, the Supreme Court of Canada held in Sept. 1981 that the Trudeau government's attempt to seek patriation of the Constitution by unilateral means was contrary to Canadian constitutional convention.

  • Gustav

    16 weeks ago

    To Set the Record Straight

    @Realisticman

    “…we all know that the prorogation was routine and was tested in law at the Federal Court.”

    That is not so. The Federal Court case cited above had nothing to do with prorogation. Instead it concerned the legality of Harper’s dissolution of Parliament in September , 2008. Duff Conacher of Democracy Watch, the applicant in the case, claimed that the snap election call contravened the fixed date election law passed by Parliament in 2007. Under the terms of that law federal elections are to be held every four years unless, during that period, the government is defeated in the Commons on a confidence vote. By the letter of that law, the next federal election was not due until early 2010.

    The Federal Court rejected Conacher’s claim on the grounds that the statute, as worded, left unimpaired the Governor General’s prerogative power to dissolve Parliament, a power that s/he exercises by convention only on the request of the PM. The Federal Court’s ruling was later upheld on appeal to the Federal Court of Appeal. Of course, one could fault opposition MPs for failing to make the legislation watertight. But they can perhaps be forgiven for presuming that having drafted the law, Harper intended to respect its spirit. To everyone's surprise he didn’t.

    It should be noted that in the aforementioned case the Federal Court said it lacked the jurisdiction to address the existence of constitutional conventions—including, presumably, any conventions governing use of the prorogation power. While that is true of the Federal Court, it is not true of the superior courts of the provinces or of the Supreme Court of Canada. Those courts can, and do, give opinions on the existence of constitutional conventions when requested by provincial or federal cabinets by way of the reference procedure (e.g., the Patriation Reference case of 1981).

    It would have been interesting to know what the courts might have said about the constitutionality (in the conventional sense) of Harper’s controversial prorogations of 2008 and 2009.

  • Gustav

    16 weeks ago

    To Set the Record Straight

    @Realisticman

    “…we all know that the prorogation was routine and was tested in law at the Federal Court.”

    That is not so. The Federal Court case cited above had nothing to do with prorogation. Instead it concerned the legality of Harper’s dissolution of Parliament in September , 2008. Duff Conacher of Democracy Watch, the applicant in the case, claimed that the snap election call contravened the fixed date election law passed by Parliament in 2007. Under the terms of that law federal elections are to be held every four years unless, during that period, the government is defeated in the Commons on a confidence vote. By the letter of that law, the next federal election was not due until early 2010.

    The Federal Court rejected Conacher’s claim on the grounds that the statute, as worded, left unimpaired the Governor General’s prerogative power to dissolve Parliament, a power that s/he exercises by convention only on the request of the PM. The Federal Court’s ruling was later upheld on appeal to the Federal Court of Appeal. Of course, one could fault opposition MPs for failing to make the legislation watertight. But they can perhaps be forgiven for presuming that having drafted the law, Harper intended to respect its spirit. But he didn’t.

    It should be noted that in the aforementioned case the Federal Court said it lacked the jurisdiction to address the existence of constitutional conventions—including, presumably, any conventions governing use of the prorogation power. While that is true of the Federal Court, it is not true of the superior courts of the provinces or of the Supreme Court of Canada. Those courts can, and do, give opinions on the existence of constitutional conventions when requested by provincial or federal cabinets by way of the reference procedure (e.g., the Patriation Reference case of 1981).

    It would have been interesting to know what the courts might have said about the constitutionality (in the conventional sense) of Harper’s controversial prorogations of 2008 and 2009.

  • Gustav

    16 weeks ago

    Continued

    The larger points to be made are as follows:

    1) Harper's prorogation of Parliament in 2008 and 2009 was anything but routine--a fact that is conceded by the Conservatives' more intellectually honest supporters (such as Tom Flanagan). For those who may have forgotten, Harper shut down Parliament in 2008 to prevent the House of Commons from voting on a non-confidence motion against the government. Twelve months later he did it again to shut down the special parliamentary committee on Afghanistan, which was asking awkward questions about the fate of detainees handed over to Afghan authorities by Canadian soldiers.

    2) In proroguing Parliament twice—three times if one counts the lesser known one in 2007—the government killed many of its own bills, which it then had to reintroduce from scratch in the next parliamentary session. The government then falsely accused the opposition parties and the Senate of creating the resulting legislative backlog. In this way Harper sought to reap political advantage from his own misconduct.

    3) Harper's abuse of the prorogation power was part of a larger pattern of contempt for Parliament it had already evinced. E.g., in Harper's first term (2006-2008) Gov't Whip Jay Hill circulated among Conservative MPs a manual on how to sabotage the proceedings of parliamentary committees. In sharp contrast to Harper, true conservative leaders, like Diefenbaker, Stanfield, and Clark, held Parliament in high esteem.

    4) Now that Harper has a majority government, he is using time allocation with unprecedented frequency to impose severe limitations on debate and to pre-empt meaningful study of important bills, including a series of US-style crime bills, 8 of which were bundled into an omnibus bill.

    5) By preventing Parliament from doing a proper job of scrutinizing legislation of dubious legality or constitutionality, Harper is inviting a flood of legal challenges which could tie up the courts for years to come.

  • Gustav

    16 weeks ago

    To Set the Record Straight

    @Realisticman
    “…we all know that the prorogation was routine and was tested in law at the Federal Court.”

    That is not so. The Federal Court case cited above had nothing to do with prorogation. Instead it concerned the legality of Harper’s dissolution of Parliament in September , 2008. Duff Conacher of Democracy Watch, the applicant in the case, claimed that the snap election call contravened the fixed date election law passed by Parliament in 2007. Under the terms of that law federal elections are to be held every four years unless, during that period, the government is defeated in the Commons on a confidence vote. By the letter of that law, the next federal election was not due until early 2010.

    The Federal Court rejected Conacher’s claim on the grounds that the statute, as worded, left unimpaired the Governor General’s prerogative power to dissolve Parliament, a power that s/he exercises by convention only on the request of the PM. The Federal Court’s ruling was later upheld on appeal to the Federal Court of Appeal. Of course, one could fault opposition MPs for failing to make the legislation watertight. But they can perhaps be forgiven for presuming that having drafted the law, Harper intended to respect its spirit. But he didn’t.

    It should be noted that in the aforementioned case the Federal Court said it lacked the jurisdiction to address the existence of constitutional conventions—including, presumably, any conventions governing use of the prorogation power. While that is true of the Federal Court, it is not true of the superior courts of the provinces or of the Supreme Court of Canada. Those courts can, and do, give opinions on the existence of constitutional conventions when requested by provincial or federal cabinets by way of the reference procedure (e.g., the Patriation Reference case of 1981).

    It would have been interesting to know what the courts might have said about the constitutionality (in the conventional sense) of Harper’s controversial prorogations of 2008 and 2009.

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