Almost everyone...

Almost everyone (from Buffet to Carney to Rae et al)agrees that the Occupy movement is justified.

Well except Luke and Josef... nuff said there.

Who Pays the Taxes Now?

"The rich pay a substantial share of taxes across the developed world, and this share has risen in recent decades. According to the OECD, a think-tank, the top 10% of earners contribute about a third of total tax revenues—28% in France, 31% in Germany and 42% in Italy. Rich Britons pay about 39% of total taxes while America’s wealthiest households contribute a larger share to government than in any other OECD country, at 45%. Looking just at income tax, the share paid by the top 1% of earners in America rose from 28% in 1988 to 40% in 2006 ..."

http://www.economist.com/node/21530093

r'man

This isn't only about taxes. Its about opportunity and hope.

People are losing the confidence they had that they will ever get ahead. That their children will ever attain the same standard of living.

As for taxes, you posted the link that contained your above quote almost a week ago, I read it then. But here's the thing, are the taxes paid by the wealthy equivalent to the percentage of wealth they control?

And, what is the plan to produce a society that doesn't serve only one small segment of it?

If the bottom half of the population are sentenced to eternal poverty you will have a hard time convincing them they have a stake in it, and if they don't feel they have a stake in it, your society will crumble and the rich will be no better off than the poor.

Frank

The article I referenced is interesting in that it explains that even if the rich were taxed a whole lot more it will not be enough to solve the problems and save the middle class.

Criminal banking and money market manipulation happened on a large scale and those responsible should be brought to justice. Not that that will help anyone except the lawyers.

Everything is more expensive than ever because we have had many years of a booming economy and the prices have risen as more people across the board are better off.

If people want to get ahead in the future a class war will not help them. Increased productivity and a market expansion is what you're talking about.

The old style economy is not coming back. As the visionary and incredibly successful Steve Jobs of Apple said, "Think Different".

Why is anybody talking about

Why is anybody talking about "earnings", when the vast majority of what these people are hoarding are simply "takings", "winnings" and "theft".

Are stockmarket profits racked up by programmed computers "earnings" ?

When corporations cut the wages, hours, benefits, the real "earnings", of their employees, while raising the prices of their products, or services, to take more profits, that's not "earning" , but "common theft"

40-50 years ago top executives were taking home about the Platonian 10 times of the wages of their lowest paid, like $25, or 50,000, but now steal several hundred times.

That's not earnings, but a crime wave.

The stockmarkets are not "investments", but gambling casinos, usually controlled by a small percentage of the major gamblers. Many corporations are now making the majority of their profits on the stock and money markets, playing poker games, controlling prices, stripping the small gamblers and the sucker public.

That's not "investment" and not "earnings", but racketeering.

The word "earning" has been invented and is used by PR hacks to give the monetary rackets a form of respectability. Like the phony Nobel Prize for Economics that doesn`t exist.

No kiddies, the Occupy movement is not going to go away, and there are hundreds of historical examples of what happens when people wake up to the royal screw they're subjected to.

People are now waking up and start asking questions and no matter how ridiculous these early stages may be, this is just the beginning of the avalanche.

Ed Deak.

r'man

realisticman : "The article I referenced is interesting in that it explains that even if the rich were taxed a whole lot more it will not be enough to solve the problems and save the middle class. "

On the surface, no. But people have to believe the system is fair and they want to be sure that if 1% owns 40% of the wealth they should be paying 40% of the taxes, not 1%.

realisticman : "Criminal banking and money market manipulation happened on a large scale and those responsible should be brought to justice. Not that that will help anyone except the lawyers."

So the fact that they weren't means you support the protests? Because its been about 3 years and the big players weren't even charged. I don't know if you read that Rolling Stone article but its pretty damning.

realisticman : "Everything is more expensive than ever because we have had many years of a booming economy and the prices have risen as more people across the board are better off."

That statement doesn't make sense and flies in the face of the stats saying real incomes haven't risen in the US in 30 years.

realisticman : "If people want to get ahead in the future a class war will not help them. Increased productivity and a market expansion is what you're talking about."

No, it won't. We've had market expansion for 30 years. A doubling of the economy in fact. We've had right-wing economic policy for 30 years and the bottom 50% have not gotten ahead at all. All the benefits of that increased productivity and increased economic growth has gone to the top.

At some point you have to come up with some new ideas if you want people to believe in your economy. The protests are an indiction you haven't.

realisticman : "The old style economy is not coming back. As the visionary and incredibly successful Steve Jobs of Apple said, "Think Different"."

The Left is thinking different. The Right isn't. As your own comments illustrate.

pressure relief valve

having seen the violent protests to austerity measures in europe, it would be logical for the 1% to foster some passive protests here in north america to neutralize resistance to an ailing us economy not likely to get better any time soon.

The Delicate Balancing Act I...

I have said many times here in the past, that as this class war heats up and masses of people begin to finally move, even elements of the "liberal" ruling class would emerge to take surprising, seemingly contradictory positions. Some will even, as they are, if reports are correct, help bankroll the seeming enemies of their privileged positions.

The ruling class is not stupid... just by and large greedy to the extreme, and used to privilege. But amongst them will be those of more or less "decent" disposition who will have a more objective understanding around what is occurring. This has been the case across history, in nearly every major upheaval period.

While it is important for especially "revolutionary" elements of this emerging "transformation period" to build principled defences against their corruption in this process, nonetheless, all "arm's length" assistance that wants to be given, should be welcomed. And, make no mistake, as the class struggle sharpens, battles are fought, and new avenues and opportunities to make serious social and economic change are created, there will be "discussions", which should always be open and in public. And "aid" always received "at arms length". Still, it will be better to have these people being "co-operative" as opposed to "hostile". (The ruling class has its divide to conquer strategies and tactics, so should the coming movement for change.)

It is necessary to be smart, even for us.

Times of great and radical change are always delicate balancing acts very often, as they are also dangerous. And no one should be surprised at this. I am not.

What is important is "understanding" one's power and what one/ the movement needs and wants to achieve and can, being principled in that, but also being fearless in quite unexpected ways, in how you choose to "disarm" and "use to good effect" even some of what one might normally think are "your class enemies."

The Delicate Balancing Act II..

Life and revolution especially are seldom entirely simple and straight forward... even though some tend to think so. It is really more a delicate balancing act, knowing when you have to fight, when you have to make strategic alliances, and when, where and how to make peace and the transition to the new order. It will call for really tough people on the revolution's side, a populist mass movement of them, but who yet know how and when to be flexible, push, give and take.... but above all building greater and better and more inclusive democratic economic and political/social systems.

There are enemies who will have to be clearly and entirely defeated in my view, but ever with an olive branch in the other hand. For even not all of the ruling class is entirely Evil... and where there are those divisions in their class ranks, they should be taken advantage of. For while there is certainly reason to "worry" about it, one also needs to understand the complex realities of class struggle. And one does always have to know, when to say "NO!", of course.

Real life and change is ever fraught with great risk, and "the 99%" will have to measure up to that.

Excinct civilizations

Ronald Wright, in his excellent book "The Short History of Progress", spells out the pattern in societies that become extinct. Increased militarism, extreme right wing politics, accumulation of wealth by the elite, discouragement of birth control, and the the
decimation of the environment. Since the book was written, things have moved even more rapidly in this direction. The failure of the Reaganomics, reaching it's logical absurdity in 2008, has not resulted in a change of direction by a continuation and enhancement of those failed policies. Another attribute of exstinct civilizations. "Surviving Progress" is a Canadian film that takes off where Wright's book ends. There were always people who warned about the impending doom, but they were ignored by the elite who continued to go hell bent for destruction. This time, it's different. There's no place to run. This extinction will be global if the direction isn't changed immediately. The Occupations and the awareness they spread could be our only hope.

Try again

"America’s wealthiest households contribute a larger share to government than in any other OECD country, at 45%."

That tells us that your 1% claim is maybe 44% short Frank.

Yes, I support prosecution of criminals too. As Conrad Black says, "a great many people probably are guilty of fraud or of negligence on a massive scale, yet have escaped prosecution, let alone conviction and punishment."

Tell us how the Left is thinking different Frank. Simply taxing the super-rich won't help bring back your good old days of 30 years ago, when a house in Canada cost $80,000, an average car was $7,000 and a litre of gas was 40 cents. A computer and monitor was around $800 though, and a car phone was over $700. Technology has come down.

The US demonstrators are calling for universal health care, we have it. They are also upset about chronic unemployment, we don't have that problem either. People will migrate to where the work is. They always have. Alberta continues to grow.

Calgary Herald , Oct.18, 2011
"The number of new motor vehicle sales in Alberta continues to trend upward, says Statistics Canada.

The federal agency reported Monday that sales in the province of 18,741 units in August were up 4.3 per cent from August 2010 and increased by 2.2 per cent from July.

New motor vehicle sales in Alberta have been trending higher over the last two years, a reflection of a generally strengthening economy since the end of the recession, said Todd Hirsch, senior economist with ATB Financial in Calgary, in a research note.

"Rising incomes and an improved employment market have clearly boosted consumer confidence in the province, encouraging households to make major purchases of durable goods," he said.

"Even more encouraging than the rising number of vehicles sold is the average price paid per vehicle."

In July 2009, the average selling price in Alberta was $34,377. That rose to $35,957 last year, and a whopping $37,569 in July 2011.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/Alberta+auto+sales+trend+upward+Statistics+Canada/5561060/story.html#ixzz1b9ZOTSqs
"

realisticman

As usual your post makes me wonder if you bother to read what I say.

realisticman : "That tells us that your 1% claim is maybe 44% short Frank"

What 1% claim? Don't be purposefully ignorant. It has a cascading effect in your case. Re-read what I said if you have to.

realisticman : "Tell us how the Left is thinking different Frank. Simply taxing the super-rich won't help bring back your good old days of 30 years ago"

So you admit that 30 years ago was better? That's a huge step forward.

As you just admitted, things aren't as good as they were 30 years ago. 30 years ago people had more confidence that they could better themselves via work and education.

The Right wants to stick to the status quo, keep doing what we've been doing for 30 years ever since Chicago school economics was foisted on us.

The Left on the other hand wants things to change. We need a new way of doing both economics and democracy so that people believe their society is sustainable and moving forward. We don't believe the last 30 years are a blip, this is how this particular flavour of economics works. Its not going to get better suddenly. That's how the Left is thinking differently.

realisticman : "The US demonstrators are calling for universal health care, we have it."

Actually we don't. We have a system that is pretty good but its also two-tier. if you have money you have better care.

realisticman : "They are also upset about chronic unemployment, we don't have that problem either."

Of course we do. Look around. Look at the employment stats, we have a huge pool of people who have never held jobs or have a history of unemployment and low-wage dead-end jobs.

You may not think the percentages are high enough to care about but those are people's lives and you should care.

When billionaires such as

When billionaires such as Warren Buffet chim in and say that they should be taxed more heavily, I doubt they are doing so because they have 'seen the light'

I think what has actually happened is they understand just how pissed off the people really are. They understand that if they don't make an immediate change, the people will become even more angry and the cost to the elite will be much higher than increased taxes. Better to give up a small portion of their fortune now than to lose it all.

Since everyone else is quoting Realisticman

Since everyone else is quoting Realisticman (and I capitalized his name too):

Criminal banking and money market manipulation happened on a large scale and those responsible should be brought to justice. Not that that will help anyone except the lawyers.

Look, the issue has never been with criminal banking and money market manipulation - yes there are criminal aspects, and yes white collar crime is never prosecuted to the degree it should be - but the issue is with legal manipulation.

Many people, although sadly not enough, know that it is the private banks in our current system that create wealth and increase the money supply. However, even fewer people can process that into a day-today example.

If you want to borrow money from me, I look in my wallet and see $20. I say "I have $20 so I can lend you $20". But if you go to a bank and they look in their wallet and see $20, they can say "I have $20 so I can lend you $200".

So our capitalist system has aspects of a pyramid scheme (note I did not say it was a pyramid scheme I just said it had aspects).

Lets take this another step further and look at where that $20 came from. The $20 in my wallet was likely "earned" - through a job, investments, maybe I sold something, etc. It used to be that the banks $20 came almost exclusively from me - it was deposits. That's not true anymore.

Now, the banks $20 if often money it's borrowed from the government. It's still my (and your) money, but instead of savings it's tax dollars that the bank has borrowed from the government.

Now, because of these changes and "aspects of a pyramid scheme" and technological innovation. The bank can borrow money to lend money and engage in that word leverage that the average Canadian doesn't truely understand.

European banks are an easy example because the Euro takes currency fluctuation out of the equation. "Silly European Bank A" can borrow $1 billion from the European Central Bank at 1% and then turn around and loan $10 billion to Iceland/taly/Greece/Spain/etc. at 5% - 8%. Suddenly they make $600 million out of thin air (not gonna use up the word count to post calculations or talk about how sometimes then can lever 50X instead of 10X).

Now here's the kicker - square the circle. Where does the ECB get the money to loan the banks in the first place? From the governments. Where do the gocerments get the money? From the taxpayer.

So as a taxpayer you are basically giving the banks their profit for free so they can loan your government money at a higher rate than you lent them the money in the first place!

Me.

stealth government

Ive always fancied being a citizen of another country and contibute my spare change to a government and system I support.
Some People do this sort of thing when they are affiliated with certain religions.

I figure our leaders are going to do nothing for us anyways and the current system will keep plodding along.

I dont know if my plan is treasonous or not, but it could be a lot of fun. Say for instance I give my virtual government 1% of my earnings a month and other folks who support this new type of system do the same. Some retail owners, who were part of this new order could even collect a small tax on certain products from other members. Once you belong to the new virtual government, it would be compulsory to pay these new fees.

Before long we could have healthy bank account and may in the future, offer services that have been lost or cut back by the government we belong to now.
Yeh its crazy, but these are desparate times. The logistics and template for this system would be daunting. And who wants to pay more taxes anyways....

More on Class Struggle Relations...

"I think what has actually happened is they understand just how pissed off the people really are. They understand that if they don't make an immediate change, the people will become even more angry and the cost to the elite will be much higher than increased taxes. Better to give up a small portion of their fortune now than to lose it all." Kootenay.

Yes, I agree. The capitalist ruling class has ruled for a long time, and while some of them, maybe even many, are stupefied in the greed, they are not by and large all stupid. Some are capable of incredible objectivity, even more than we very often... and if you have doubt of this, make a point of reading Fortune magazine, which speaks to and for these folks.

There are those like Warren Buffet who know as well as any of us what is happening here and where it leads to. (Others are quite genuinely "liberal" and seek to be "decent" people too, I understand that as well.) And while we should have no illusions about what is motivating anyone here, certainly the Conservative/fascist mainstream of the ruling class, there is still opportunity here to split their ranks and take advantage of it. And I think "the populist revolution" should do it... openly, honestly, in public, allowing that there are no strings attached.

And this latter point of "no strings attached", will not initially be easy to secure, I also understand that. But... it will tend to become "easier" the further we get along here,into this Occupation movement and even more so, beyond, into the situations where their power is being more seriously challenged by "the street" and at serious risk of imminently slipping away from them. Then they will tend to be more anxious to please, with fewer to no strings.

It is important that the "99% movement" begin to discuss this, the implications, and seek a consensus in public on how to proceed, while there is still time. Because it will, is already, become an issue that is part and parcel of the final "taking of their power" and the arrival at this new economic and political "popular democracy" taking early shape here.

My view.

freewilly

Hang onto that thought.:-) Maybe not yet, but not a total wackjob idea. :-) I don't think.

things are different in Canada

Less people to fool.
Less politicians to pay off
and regulations aren't cool.
The media is a valuable tool
as the Fox is in the Hen House as Canadians find themselves being hosed instead of housed.

and folks

are just warming up to democracy, a friend of the people in times of great economic disparity in Canada, no doubt. People lost their homes in the US because of jobs and not because the pay check they pocket barely keeps them alive. Canadians in BC can't even afford to buy a house to lose but shop US because it is so cheap. Sounds like the poor in the US got more buying power for starts.

more on virtual government

I guess the reason I brought up the virtual government thing, is that Ive been facinated with the idea of virtual communities for over 15 years, when I started a small BBS. While it had a theme to start with, it devolved into social networking board and took on the attributes of a small community with a governing body of sysops. Even the gateways which brought in other feeds, I likened to roads out of the town.

I wonder if any of our leaders are gamers?
Scientists run simulations to figure how the universe began and have software to simulate climate change.

I know there is a game out there that simulates politics and government (cant remember what its called maybe its one of those sims games)

Maybe its possible to create an alternate world that mirrors our own, plug in all the data of whats going on, right now. Run the simulation including the protests etc.. and see what the outcome is. Somewhere out there a group nerds or economists have to be working on this.

Anyone remember the startrek episode, where this society was fighting a virtual war with computers? The losers had to step into a disintegration chamber. Dumb chumps. Kirk had to ruin everything by blowing up thier computers, then they had to face the reality of waging a real war. I digress....

Marketing companies are already using metrics to manipulate our buying habits. They use software to predict buying trends and more. Why cant we use some of the same tools to design our almost perfect utopian society?

Taxing the rich is nothing

Taxing the rich is nothing more than taking back some of the money they took from us.

Businesses don't pay their own bills, or rack up their profits from the air, it all comes out of the public's pockets.

Ed Deak.

realistic man

chronic unemployment actually is a problem in many areas of Canada, despite Alberta's oil fueled prosperity. B.C. is not so prosperous....in Nelson where i live the unemployment rates are around 8%...not everyone wants to be a "human resource" and like cattle, be shifted around according to the whims of the farmer.

Taking From The Rich...

"Taxing the rich is nothing more than taking back some of the money they took from us." Ed Deak.

Hear. Hear. There should be absolutely no sense of guilt about taking their money... which they got from us by stealing share (that could have otherwise gone to the poor and the underpaid), and from the environment by raping nature's and the public's resources.

Do it. Take from the rich. They owe it to us big time.

Just why does anyone listen to Warren Buffett?

The one and only reason the fools of society pay reverence to this guy is because of his wealth, plenty of it acquired through the gamed, and thus morally criminal, stock market.

ANYONE who even aspires to acquiring the wealth this man has is a truly sick MO-Fo in the first place. And now we hang on his every word? Like this man has some sort of human compassion that should be exemplified?

Wow. I do understand, though, that keeping your eyes shut does help block reality from burning them out.

The Buffet Muffets...

First, I understand entirely what igbymac is saying here... and his concerns. He is correct.

The NDPers here have their own agenda they can defend of course. But the other reality is, the "populist people movement", that is the "street movement of the people" that is so critical to the future in my view, is largely made up of folks with little or no resources... outside their numbers that will come on stream here, they are starved for cash. Which in capitalism, is part of the need for successful organization and power base building, and for building the "self-assistance" systems the poor and underpaid especially are going to need over the coming time period.

If one has money and is fairly successful, it may be difficult to understand this. But I think that in the future, "the movement" is going to have to build systems for gathering in financial and other resources. It is just a fact of life. And many directions will have to be tapped.

And fuck Warren Buffet or any others like him. We all know where their wealth has come from too. But if some of them come forward with guilty consciences, good intentions, or even to seek to ingratiate themselves in the future, and talk is cheap, and they are prepared to fork over cash to "the populist movement", I think they should 1. openly, 2. frankly, and 3. with clear no strings attached... take it. And the public should know who they are, these "donors", so that as the future builds we can see whether or not they receive "special considerations".

It's that, or do what the Russian and other revolutionaries did and do, and they still took money freely given them, from pretty well any source, make no mistake, but also robbed banks etc. And while it may come to robbing banks and such :-), we are not there yet, I don't think, and wouldn't advocate it here anyway. 8-D lol

Like I say, life is sometimes complex, especially for newly emerging social revolutions AND economic revolutions. It is a line that will simply have to be walked, with the movement prepared to hold people accountable, especially of their own. which is where "real" openness, transparency and democracy comes in. Also a principled fearlessness.

When talking of "unlikely

When talking of "unlikely allies," I'm not surprised that a few (too few) billionaires are concerned with (excess) inequality. But what's more disturbing is that a majority of the 99% ally themselves with the other billionaires, even to the extent of voting for their agenda. If the Occupy movement can convince another, say, 20% of the 99% to see the light, we may get somewhere.

"Taking it all...." is a

"Taking it all...." is a form of violence that breeds violence, as shown in many so called revolutions that ended up in bloodbaths and legalized robbery, with the innocent suffering the most.

But preventing more indiscriminate and obscene "takings" with an economic system based on physical laws, human rights and democracy, can be possible, non violent and
sustainable.

People are born with different talents and mental capacities. My wife and I were born to design and make things in a variety of fields, worked 7 days a week all our lives, treated our customers the best, and although we survived, we never had any money. We've also known many people in the same situation.

At the same time, we've known many other businesses who were producing junk, treated their customers like dirt, cheating and stealing from them, yet customers and money just poured into their doors, and all the way to the bank. Why?

E.g. The most expensive supermarket in Williams Lake is also the busiest. Why ?

Wal Mart is among the biggest players on the money markets, making huge profits. Why?

In short there's some kind of magnetism that gives people various opportunities, but those talents should be developed to the benefit of themselves and society at large and not to fill the demands of obscene greed.

Ed Deak.

Money... pfft.

Most people wouldn't put a price on their own mother. As the rich play games with money, they make a mockery of money, and they make money look stupid. That's when more and more things become priceless. Money is re-examined by the many. What is money?

It's actually just paper. You can't eat it. It's hard to burn when in a stack. Gets moldy quick when you try to build with it. Too big for confetti.

Buffett knows this. He knows it's worthless without mass consent. Consent is receding. I'm less than thirty and in my time I have seen money in large part cease to be seen as the reward for leadership. Rich people are far less respectable than even ten years ago. Leadership and respect no longer have a price, and this means we face unstable times, as when leadership and initiative are not rewarded with money or other stable instruments, only action remains.

Bad news for the rich. Let's not forget this time that they are people as well, as some of them are also trying to remind us, while they still have a podium.

Today's money is not paper,

Today's money is not paper, but imaginary computer figures.

My definition is : "Money is a licence for the control of energy, created from the air by a special interest sector for its own benefit"

The problem is that this special interest sector has been legalized by the Priesthood of Economists,in collaboration with crooked governments, to use this licence to take control of the world's resources and can now cause a depression to force humanity begging for survival under their dictatorship.

Ed Deak.

Were they insured?

"Protesters have formed over a dozen committees to deal with a variety of issues including security, first aid and food requirements. Organizers announced on Monday that over $5,000 has been raised in donations, although an undetermined amount of money was also lost after thieves carrying "donations bins" took advantage of the crowds over the weekend ...

Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/news/Occupy+Vancouver+protest+bleeding+participants/5570077/story.html#ixzz1bC8oO0JS

Probably some billionaire bankster moonlighting!

R/M old man....

The only way productivity can increase is through mechanization. The average worker produces more product because he pushes more buttons on more machinery. "Unfortunately", this also means that a single worker does or will, take the place of what once took 10,000 workers to produce. So what happens to those 9,999?
As for "prosperity", Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney warned in a recent speech that Canadians had debt — including mortgages — valued at 150 per cent of disposable income.

No Problem Rickie

We should look to Greece for wisdom and guidance. We should stop paying taxes, retire at 50 and keep spending with credit cards like nothing happened. Then, if anyone asks, blame it all on nasty banksters.

Too little, too late, billionaires.

The fire that's been lit won't be doused with some measly tax reform -- it's going to consume the whole goddamn system of exploitation upon which your wealth is based. Be very afraid.

Critical Parallels and Divergences I...

First, we are again in a time entirely unlike most of the postwar II period. If anything, we are in a period more resembling 1929... but then, in my view, even qualitatively different from that. For one, and very important, we have an entirely different, more educated and experienced (sophisticated?) working class 99%, AND no less important, the capitalist economic system has nowhere left to grow. By which I mean, in terms of cheap labour, population, geography (lebensraum) without stealing it like the Germans attempted in Russia, and or resurrecting the thievery of colonialism, or destroying it all through war and mass murder. Which creates the opportunity, at least in the old paradigm pre-nuclear weapons, of starting all over again. As occurred postwar II, resulting in that growth re-driven prosperity period for capitalism, from which the baby boomer working class benefited.

So be very afraid, the re-militarization of capitalism everywhere is again underway, including Canada, and the growth of competition between the capitalist powers such as leads to war (USA and W. Europe/China and Russia), as well as aggressive attempts to re-control the Middle East and Africa (revive western colonialism). Again like Germany in Russia, capitalism everywhere is in search of already occupied "lebensraum" it can steal, and it is in search of wars they can engage in short of nuclear war. (However fraught with the miscalculated risk of, regardless.)

Meanwhile, however, while this is all true, like I say, we are about 1929, the Great Depression of the New Post-Postwar II is still forming, and there is no room to grow out of it, but... there is still time for "the 99% masses" to organize and respond with an alternative to it. As also existed for the world working class in the old Depression period too, but it failed to do, largely as a consequence of sectarian party strife within it, and a certain lack of "understanding" I suspect .

Nor is there any guarantee that we will respond any better.

The only thing working in the collective 99% favour this time around is, first, that the faith of the 99% in the status quo system, including its bullshit party and electoral system is seriously degraded. (There is less, even diminishing likelihood of the 99% getting caught up in the ritual dance sectarian/ intra-party competition for votes that are a waste of precious time.) And there is a better popular understand, I think, of the underlying causes that are rooted in the fear and greed driven nature of capitalism.

Critical Parallels and Divergences II...

From previous post...

Our best hope is precisely this early realization that the bullshit electoral and so-called democratic system and its parties is dysfunctional and of extremely limited usefulness at best... And that our best hope for dealing with capitalism is in the streets, precisely as is already beginning to happen. Around which we have to already begin to build our own alternative "system structures and democracy", designed for the 99%, not leaders even, or party elites. And we have to look after each other, and begin to build engaged "mutual support systems", as those of the status quo system are already failing.

We are, or should be, in my view, talking here about a socio-economic revolution unlike any other we have seen to date, built around the street mass and NOT, the various self-styled vanguardists and their vanguard party systems, within or outside "the status quo system". Their history is inherently anti-democratic, serves the ruling class, and is destructive of the 99% interest.

My view.

Well Jerry, isn't all this

Well Jerry, isn't all this the age old proof that:

"Wealth can not be created, only taken from others, the environment and future generations"

Ed Deak.

Wealth cannot be created...

Indeed it is Ed, in the particular context of which we speak. On that, you and I have always been fundamentally agreed. :-)

A good day, good man.