Jack inspired me to get others involved in progressive politics

As great leaders do, Jack mentored us into understanding that we all must lead at some time and the NDP as a group has never been more inspired and united than we are right now to lead this country in what will surely be a new era in Canadian politics.

He was inspirational!

Very sad news. I never met Jack but it would have been a privelige to have done so. His message expressed what I consider to be the best that I have heard of what Canadian values should be.

Jack, The Real Man...

First, Jack was not a Saint. He was a real, blood and flesh guy, who like his beer, and to have a "good time".And he was a consummate political person. Which is also anything but a friggin' angel. These were actually the qualities I like best about Jack. AND, while he was anything but a revolutionary, or looked much beyond to current socio-economic order, as is typical of the limited "liberalness" of "social democracy", he was at least, within that relatively narrow or "restricted" framework, progressive... anything but a conservative or fascist. In short, he was the kind of guy, while such as myself could see nothing in him worth actually getting out and "voting" for, in current circumstances, whom such as myself could certainly work with in a broader social and political context... on a particular cause, such as homelessness, labour rights etc..

When I'm dead and gone, I expect my family, nearest and dearest, of whom I'm sure there is far less than around Jack right now, trying to touch the cloth of his "Sainthood"... I have been much too much of an "outsider". ...I would be disappointed if they didn't also talk about my "politics". It's really what I was fundamentally about. And maybe play Beethoven's VI, or Pastoral Symphony. And as part of that, there's nothing wrong with, over a few hoisted glasses, a good critique of a dead politician... be he within the system like Jack, or far outside it such as myself, with a trail of burned bridges in the rear view mirror.

It is not enough to throw ourselves on the Alter of Jack, and sing his praises uncritically. That would be to miss the point of the man... I think. At least his usefulness to those left behind. And life is for the living, not the dead.

Jack, you were a good man, in the most progressive context of that description. But you were not a Saint. Like Tony Blair and many another social democrat across capitalism, you never really saw, I don't think, outside the good manners and graces of the parliamentary status quo, however much you pushed that to the limits of its potential. That potential is not enough, brother.

Others of us, coming after Jack, and indeed myself I 'fess, will be needed to see and achieve what we never had a hope in Hell of.

That said, though I will not vote for them, because I think I see beyond them, to the next stage of the struggle, Jack's party, the NDP is going to form the first post-Conservative government. And he laid the foundations for that... unless they really are a total bunch of gits, as I fear.

And The Real People

"It is not enough to throw ourselves on the Alter of Jack, and sing his praises uncritically. That would be to miss the point of the man... I think. At least his usefulness to those left behind. And life is for the living, not the dead."~ Jerry Munro

I'm so glad you wrote that, Jerry....outstanding insights and it needed to be said. I think Jack would agree with you completely. Of what value is sainthood to the real world of real people?

You know what I have found interesting in watching this remarkable response to Jack's passing? ....That for once, Big Media, surprised by the scope of this display of genuine affection for Jack Layton has been drawn in to actually cover and report on the thoughts and feelings of the people for once.

We are finally hearing the voices of Canada - through their love and identification, really, with the values of Jack, 'Canadian values' almost forgotten - what they hold dear, what they respect, what they hope for... for themselves.....and for this country that they so love.

And they are a very articulate bunch.....who know what matters to them.

This is finally the diverse people of Canada beginning to speak....and for once being given a chance to be heard. The real Canada somehow beginning to bloom again midst the depth of feeling and sadness of these days.

Love, hope optimism, yes, all good and necessary things

But the wisdom too, to read the changing winds, prepared...and standing on guard.

If ever there was a time to stand on guard, it is now.

Conservatives unplugged

Interesting to see how Jacks death plays out with the god fearing conservative pundits. It took no time at all before they unzipped and produced a steady stream of disdain upon Jack.
One has to wonder why such hatred flows for people that expound compassion for those living in less fortunate positions of our Canadian society.
Perhaps jealousy plays a part knowing that the passing of any conservative minded leader would hardly garner any such lament among Canadians(that must really enrage).
Their contempt for compassion is a product of their righteousness which makes them blind to any thought other than the doctrine they own.

Change from inside or out?

In the 60s, when Jack was a teen, a central question arose for those who were disgusted with "the system" as it was.

Whether to try and change that system from within, and risk being co-oped to the point of dark side absorption, or try to change it from without and risk being marginalized to the point of invisibility; both had risks.

For over a year I tried the outer route but found few effective ways to influence change. I also tried the depth of a very slimy business inner route, but, despite good money, was more than distasteful, and healthy change was not an option.

I decided to work inside the system, but closer to the fringes, where I might affect changes with very much a double agenda of doing duties as prescribed by "the Man", but also working very hard to make the changes in many subtle and "out there" ways. Many years of "the lefty radical" of my organization. Changes happened, but not as much as I had wished. Still...

I've admired Jack for a very long time., since he was a Toronto city council. Earlier on, I lived on the Danforth, and believe me, it ain't no elite neighbourhood, like Forest Hill or some of the suburbs.

I briefly met Jack twice during his city council days and I sensed his honesty and caring almost instantly. I lost track of him until he became national NDP leader.

He was able to implement changes for homeless, working and middle class Canadians, despite fierce elite opposition, beyond anything I could imagine doing. He wore the suit and did the prescribed duties, as "the Man" often demanded, but that wasn't the real Jack. The real Jack was no "angel", rather the neighbour who would befriend you and do whatever he could if he saw you in distress.

There ain't no one person I can think of on the inside who has affected as much progressive change as Jack in a very long time; E. Broadbent, S. Lewis, D. Suzuki, M. Barlow, who? These and many more have contributed greatly, but...

Gerry, who on the outside has matched Jack to improve things for our most vulnerable?

Your analysis of our social, political and economic problems are mostly bang on, but the Great Change that you envision just ain't gonna happen for quite a while, surely not until it happens south of the border, and even then...

In the meantime, its guys and gals working on the inside, much like Jack did, that bring a modicum of fairness and justice in this twisted system.

On The Way to Common Ground I......

"Gerry, who on the outside has matched Jack to improve things for our most vulnerable?" owlrol

Interesting comments as always, owlrol. And I respect where you are coming from... though we differ some in our tactical emphasis.

And it does need to be said, that across the history of this country, even since just the time of the last Great Depression, I know/ knew many men and women in the trade union, anti-war, poverty, women's and environmental movements, who while they stood much outside the "mainstream" party system, nonetheless contributed mightily to working class and community progress. (And I similarly played my small part over the years.) And though most of these folks were ideologically and practically marginalized by the system, and were much forced into the political wilderness, not entirely without the help of the NDP, and the trade union movement they still dominate, they contributed as much to the grass roots levels as certainly social democrats. Still do. Social Democrats, being largely "acceptable" to the system and its media etc., and no serious threat to it, while they made their contributions, no doubt, also much were "allowed/ tolerated", to wrap themselves in the "progressive" limelight mythology more. They were allowed to be relatively harmless radicals, acceptable to capitalism everywhere. (Which is okay. I only a tad begrudge them it. For I understand the objective motivations at work within the system that "tolerated" and "used" social democracy... while working at the same time to isolate the more "challenging to capitalism" Left. (Though I concede, especially in the early Cold War days, Social Democracy did not have entirely clear sailing either. Still, they had it far, far easier than did the more challenging to capitalism Left. Social Democracy was even used by the system, in the day, in many important regards, to help drive this Left into the political wilderness. Where it still largely remains, hopefully sharpening its analyses. 8-D lol Semper paratus.

continued next post...

On The Way to Common Ground II...

continued from previous post...

Mistake not the fanfare noise and spotlight glitter more allowed you social democrats by the system owlrol, as proof that you folks are the only ones to have contributed to the cause of "the people" or this "country". (Indeed, social democracy, in my view, much played a role in facilitating the co-opting of the trade union movement to the system, from which it still suffers, and in enabling US Empire domination of the country, by sitting on its hands.) There are many lesser known who contributed no less, I suggest, more even than thee to "the people". And one day, hopefully, they will be known to us all yet.

As Frank often says here, you folks don't really want my type in the NDP anyway. :-) And I know that. Y'all just want my vote, and/or to otherwise dumb myself down and shutup. ( As y'all quietly work to become, as Joe Clark says, the "new" party of "liberalism" in this country; a joining of social democracy and Liberals. )But shutup or dumb down, I ain't about to do, brother. There's still some kick in this old carcass yet. 8-D lol

Sorry Jack. But it ain't really all about you. :-) Rest In Peace.

The worm is turning again. And we shall see what renewed opportunities will emerge out of the coming times, for the likes of me. :-) We may yet find a common ground meeting place. :-)
Just not yet. :-) This current "liberal" new party notion y'all are working on, still needs to pass through the fire of failing capitalism and come undone yet. (Though, on the way to there, you will become the next governing party of Canadian capitalism. You have not yet passed through the Labour Party of England experience to total corruption. But you will. My own prediction. :-)

Inside and out

Jerry, my heart is also on the outside as I consider the work of Ginger Goodwin in the island coal mines, or Arthur Evans, that "communist maverick" organizer of the "slave camp" boys in the '35 On to Ottawa trek; these guys rose above the system margins to make a real difference for many Canadians, as did many of their followers.

But post WWII affluence changed that all out commitment, after all, no one was so hungry any longer that they tried to eat grass.

I was very saddened seeing a couple of friends whose hearts were ultimately broken by seeing all their work to help create a more equal and just Canada rolled back incrementally and ongoing since the late 70s.

They knew what was going on even as I was learning. They lost drive and meaning in their lives but tried to keep plugging on to make a difference, although they felt decreasingly effective.

One of Jack's greatest qualities was to maintain a real optimism, not that superficial mush pumped out by mainstream media or some blind faith groups, even when things looked very grim and getting worse.

As stated before, the great change will happen only with links between those on the outside and on the inside, although not likely at the rotten core. Look at the lawyers, architects and doctors fighting side by side with street vendors, farmers and unemployed to overthrow tyrants, for example, in the Arab Spring.

Of course, what replaces a former tyranny may not be much better, but perhaps the empowerment provided by modern communications may help to catalyze a more fair and just system, fully democratic or not. The new leaders know that they are being watched much more carefully than previously and that they may suffer the same fates as their predecessors.

yes, thanks

For the flesh and blood view of Jack Layton.You and Lynn are right that the the 'people' are telling us something...

But here is what I want to say to all those jumping on the bandwagon of Mr. Layton's death: your sentiment is only as good as your actions and your behaviour. And yeah, I'm talking about you: you pious dedicated NDPers (a few of whom I know personally) who run businesses and pay minimum wage, who could give a rat's ass where you shop, who walk by the homeless on the streets without so much as a 'hello, brother/sister' ~ your grief over Mr.Layton's death is as false as your principles. For principles are about what you do, not just what you say...the hard work of turning principles into action.

I wonder what Jack would have made of the idea of a state funeral... but no matter. I think he would want his legacy to be frimly rooted in action, not idealization.

Ah, good music

A final, sarcastic "note". Harpo suggested that it was too bad that he and Jack could never get together in a jam session because they never had the "time".

I suggest that they could never jam together because they played in very different "time" signatures and played very different "tunes".

I liked Jack's tunes much more than Stephen's.

It takes all sorts

Vivian, you are correct. It is easy to be a "champagne socialist" and that there are stinkers in every organization, some more than others.

But lets not negate all for the flaws of some. I honour the NDPers, among others, at the municipal level, who have worked hard to alleviate homelessness and have instituted a "living wage" against huge opposition.

I lived on the streets for a time and there surely are stinkers there too, and not just out of desperation.

I've rubbed shoulders with several provincial NDPers, past and present, and several felt unsavoury or anaemic at best, but unless I am very naive, far more were/are fair, hard working and socially dedicated individuals.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, lets try to wash the baby squeaky clean, and throw the grimy bathwater out at the next election or better, at prior NDP nomination meetings.

Not Perfect, But Pursued Issues for Others

I think Owl said it best that Layton knew how to play the game of putting on the business suit and play the game but stick to his favourite areas: social justice, environmental protection, sustainable transportation, etc.

I'm actually not really interested about his record for the NDP but more for examining his record of pursuing issues doggedly.

Some personal highlights in his work on cycling, how he networked at the grassroots level with highly diverse electorate ...those who are not monied, have less power, etc.
http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/jack-layton-spinning-words-into-action-politician-cyclist-1950-2011/

Sure he was a self-promoter. Alot of high profile politicians are. But he did give back, ....permanently to the community.