no clue

We just went through a postal strike with the NDP filibustering for 4 days. Nobody gives a rat's ass. The papers barely covered it.

Harper just gave away a $21B asset AECL and destroyed Canada's one of Canada's last hitech industry and Canada's second biggest sources of clean power.. Barely made the news.

[OFFENSIVE COMMENTS REMOVED.]

Get used to it.

seth

And how much media are the Liberals getting? Oh that's right, even less than the NDP.

Looks good on them.

I doubt next time around the Liberals will disband to prevent a Harper majority but one can always hope.

OH Canada!

"It is amazing that our society can function as well as it does, given that we are in a state of continuous denial about so many things we do as a society."
Sorry, I got news for you: our society does not function except for the lucky few who manage to earn a lot of money!
For the rest of us is is steadily getting worse!

About our international reputation, the situation that cartoon at the heading is referring to, is what we should worry about!
We, Canada alone, are in control of the Asbestos dillemma, and we are doing shit about it!

The Bourgeois Parliamentary Focused Eye...

The NDP has always been schizophrenic on foreign policy, especially when it comes to the Middle East. Jack Layton's shameful apology to the Israeli ambassador for Libby Davies' gutsy refusal to be bullied by the Israeli lobby is another example." Murray D.

Well, I guess schizophrenic is one way, if one wants to be circumspect over honest, of describing NDP foreign policy positions, through NAFTA to all the imperialist wars we have played a role in of recent. I though would simply call it dishonest, unprincipled and opportunist... which has long characterized my view of the NDP brand of so-called "social democracy".

Of course they could help restore the perceptions of the broadest international community, outside of just Europe and the US, and many Canadians alike, that we are really just a bootlick state to Empire. But, the exception of the recent "back to work legislation" granted, they would still have to demonstrate more consistent backbone than we have to here typically observed from these Blairite folks.

But then, many of the NDP I encounter still tend, in their political/ideological naiveté, or whatever, to think that we are there in the Middle East defending the rights of women. (Except in Saudi Arabia, where they are not allowed to drive cars, etc. etc., or Egypt where they (demonstrators) are still subject to "virginity" examinations by the State Security apparatus.) Which would be laughable if this foreign policy stupidity and unprincipledness was not actually simply helping to turn the Middle East into a "killing field", in defence of Big Oil and broader US/Western Empire hegemony.

Likewise of course, they ignore the genocide going on in Palestine, at the hands of Zionist Fascism.

But then eh, we mustn't expect more of social democrats than they are capable of delivering... with their over arching opportunist,s eye on more "perceived" self serving interests, such as the next election.

The NDP, in fact, is more a part of the problem than the solution... which Canadians still have to work through, on their way to real national sovereignty and the building of a real democratic societal and economic arrangement.

"Why is it that our

"Why is it that our collective, social intelligence on so many critical matters falls dramatically short of our individual citizen intelligence?"

i think its the CBC. it somehow appointed itself that role: "guider of collective social intelligence," and it shapes what we think about in ways we're so used to that we dont notice... like the vancouver riots. did you notice it was 24/7? the paper, the tv, the radio.. and then even facebook or twitter. and then people at work, reacting to it. it was also instrumental in framing the toronto g20 a certain way.. sure, 8 months later it ran a critical documentary about it, but then it was over. it could've aired it in prime time. it could've talked about it on all fronts till something happened.

it could've focused on many greivous social ills untill we all become collectively pissed off and demanded heads to roll, making politicians afraid to make us even angrier, so they look out for us instead of corporate interests. the CBC could pick one a month.. tar sands, banks, what are we doing in afghanistan, etc.

so yes we should tell the NDP not to be stupid, they're more likely to listen, but we also cant rely on them. we have to mobilize, massively... the thing the CBC, and political parties, are set up to prevent: people asking questions, understanding the world around them, taking action, deciding what they actually want the government to be doing, and not being distracted easily and settling for bullshit. (ie.. if you oppose the libya intervention, or israeli brutality, you have to still vote for jack layton while asking him to change his mind.. as opposed to "giving him the opportunity to be opportunistic" because you're part of a massive antiwar campaign or something

things like avaaz, change.org, care2.. they're actually effective lately. all you have to do is electronically sign a petition, couple weeks later women can drive in saudi arabia. well those are the petitions that get struck by lightning. i think shit harper did may have been instrumental in placing that asbestos thing in the public conciousness

Art Green...

Generally good comments, Art Green. Certainly the social intelligence, as manifested by the State and the vanguard "parties" to it, falls short of the individual citizen intelligence, in my view... Yes, even in this country. ...at least in my small town experience of it. Where certainly finding someone who actually believes we are in Afghanistan to "save their women and girls", would be difficult to find... again, outside "party members all" to the status quo. There is a much closer understanding there, that it is "really all about oil.", and/or "the greed of the rich", or one could include other resources, cheap labour and market access.

For the fact of the matter is, again in my personal experience of it, that "common folk", above all else, are extremely cynical, even disillusioned. (Those that are otherwise more positive, the CBC/CNN North certainly knows how and which class stratas of society to ferret that out of. And what folks, with jobs and other issues to worry about, will say publicly with a camaera and mike in their face, may or as much may not reflect what they really think... more likely what they think they should say, and sound sincere about it. And in my view, it is this deep rooted cynicism that is more likely behind the high percentage of "non-voters". )

The problem with the deeply rooted cynicism of the masses is, it tends to have such a sweep and depth that it effectively paralyzes them. For the other overarching element is, they don't think there is anything one can really do about it.

My own view is, pending something else that I cannot see or am unaware of changing that paralysis of cynicism, socio-economic affairs in the controlling hands of the corporations and the Conservative/Fascist State, are simply going to have to be allowed to run their current deterioration course, until there is also a greater collective feeling of everyone having their backs to the wall, and absolutely no alternative but to come out swinging. Which is not where we are at yet, though that corporate/fascist and State element is certainly there, driving it all in this direction.

On the other hand, we may begin to see even more "random" acts of violence, urging folks to at least higher levels of quasi-sympathetic action. Though which would certainly also drive the authoritarian tendencies of the current State. Which makes it all even more difficult to predict outcomes and peaceful opportunities for deep social and economic change.

I'm Weary

That was a useful overview. Thanks Murray.

Jack is so disappointing. But how do his colleagues feel about him? We need revolutions. Yesterday. Unless we are all fooled again and this entire Party is a diversion, a replacement for the Liberals just to provide us with the illusion that we have democracy and therefore no need to look for it, then the federal NDP needs to dump Jack for the reasons given above - first opportunity (according to the rules or sooner, revolution-style).

Hopefully the NDP under Jack will not abandon the good policy positions it has taken and defend them in parliament, and hopefully they will address the specific problems Murray mentioned and in that way restore, somewhat, Canada's reputation in the world. Although I'm loathe to fall asleep here and imagine that things will be fundamentally different if we talk like we are not as bad as we look and others feel a bit better as a result. We are a long ways from being, the way Venezuela and Bolivia are, independent of the corporatocracy. (Although I read an article by Rory Carroll in which he reports that Chomsky has taken Chavez to task for becoming cruel and dictatorial. I never did like the way he so easily glad-handed with nasties.)

You've got to ask yourselves: Will the American-led corporatocracy let Canada go it's own way? Canada? Not without a concerted effort, on all fronts, to stop it. Has anyone here ever read Floyd Rudmin's "Bordering On Aggression"? (This page has something about it: http://bit.ly/kGYxsS)

That doesn't mean that's not what we should want, if we care.

Continuing to give the impression...

Murray Dobin's dedication to giving the impression that giving the Palestinians what they want, while ignoring the needs of Israel for security will bring peace.

Or that focusing on the pain and suffering of Palestinians while ignoring the pain and suffering of Israelis , will bring peace.

Or that making Palestinians less vulnerable while making Israel more vulnerable, will bring peace.

Or is it that he doesn't really care about peace; or is it that he will settle for continued conflict....?

As long as the Palestinians get what they want.

Jerry Munro - got it in one

"The NDP, in fact, is more a part of the problem than the solution... which Canadians still have to work through, on their way to real national sovereignty and the building of a real democratic societal and economic arrangement."

Exactly. It is a fact that is beginning to dawn on more and more people in Europe - particularly in Greece and Spain, but also in the UK and elsewhere - that the State/Parliament/'System' is set up to serve the interests of the owners of our societies rather than citizens. They are realizing, through bitter experience, that putting one's energy and hope into electing a Socialist/Labour/NDP party to serve the interests of ordinary working people is a mug's game - Greece's PM is nominally a 'Socialist'(let alone 'social democrat'). That's why you see a rejection of the entire political class and it's sham elections by large numbers of Spaniards, for example.

I personally saw the result of a Harper majority/NDP Official opposition as the worst possible outcome of the last election - so much of the energy and resources of those opposed to Harper will be channeled to the NDP and the NDP will channel all of that energy and resources into trying to win the next election.

Can't cut them NDP any slack at all, eh?

There was really nothing more useless for a democratic institution than a Tory minority and a Liberal opposition. Lets face it the liberals have always catered to the right to stay in power and only gave token consideration to issues that effected most Canadians. The whole double cross on the GST was a case in point. Then there was all the rhetoric about Free Trade but in the end they did nothing to change things. A liberal is simply a spineless conservative.

Yes, Jack has some challenges but now at least we have an opposition which, while it has some leaning to do, will articulate the concerns of people instead of business and corporations. For heaven sake, how long did the liberals have to practice their craft.

Thailand Election

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/0705/1224300090623.html

Maybe Harper could learn a thing or two here......on second thought, no he isn't capable of that.......

Libya

Did Layton not vote for the NATO War on Libya?
Where was Layton, during the election, on the two corporate trade deals being negotiated by Pee Wee?
"And they call it Democracy" What a joke!

Democracy and capitalism - like oil and water.

Capitalism perverts democracy. It must. There is no other choice for capitalism as it depends on the immorality of self-interest.

The belief that self-interest is good is what permeates, feeds and sustains capitalism...at least for a length of time, until self-interest mutates into self-cannibalization and eventually eats itself in a last grand shark frenzy of gluttonous greed. Pretty well, The State of Things at present.

Democracy, if it is to be the real thing, (as opposed to masquerade) must be based on social humanistic values - social democracy. There is no other choice. It must serve 'alive', social values where worth is not based in dead materialism. It must serve the common good, rather than self-interest. It must be based on humanitarian values - the kind of values that sustain human decency and human dignity, actually the kind of values that sustain all living things - plants, animals, our physical environment, and yes , even us dear and highly fallible human beings.

If we are to survive, we must face this fact.

That's a lot of 'must's' but there really is no other choice.

Capitalism has almost thoroughly warped and co-opted the democratic process for its benefit, turning democracy into an intentional mockery of itself.

I don't think people are apathetic, I think too many of us have bought and believe in the perverted faux kind of democracy that capitalism 'must' sell....and like bloated dinner guests that have eaten more than they expected to, too many of us are lying dazed and immobile on the couch, over-satiated by the capitalist feast of sly offerings.

It has left too many of us spell-bound.

It's more about us, really, than Jack. The world is the way it is because so many of us have bought what capitalism sells.

Jack is reticent, just like the rest of us.

We talk change but we don't demand it. We seem over-anxious and fearful more than anything.......

Can we make a new world based on sharing and giving up the all-consuming jazz of all those toys and trinkets?

Capitalism likes to separate us through competition, how deep is our real desire for the togetherness of the common good?

How hungry are we, really, for real change?

I just don't know anymore.....the tea leaves are terribly confusing these days.

Hopefully, when we get serious, the party structure... or a better alternative to the party structure, will reflect that.

In any case if we are to survive, we must take on capitalism and reject it as an economic system.... and we must quit apologizing for the humanitarian social values that a real democracy depends upon, thrives on, and counts on for its survival.

And by the way, good on, Libby Davies.

If we are to survive... Lynn

"That's a lot of 'musts' but there really is no other choice." Lynn.

Good stuff. :-) Inspired. :-)

It is about us more than Jack, or even Harper.

In the fullness of time. In the fullness of time. Though you are correct, the tea leaves right now are saying too many muddled things. ;-)

Can NDP restore Canada's reputation?

The Tommy Douglas/Ed Broadbent NDP is no longer.
Today's NDP is yesterday's Liberal Party.

Second Coming...

And I love the pigged out on the couch after the feast analogy. There are many exceptions in the poor of course, but it is still the case for a great many of us, just outside that impoverershedf and dispossessed core. Even though we know the feast is really over.

We lay there on our couches, with still full bellies, like christians still waiting for a miracle... the second coming of "The Saviour". :-)

We are not yet Greece. Though it is what is next.

House of straw

"We lay there on our couches, with still full bellies, like christians still waiting for a miracle... the second coming of "The Saviour". :-)

Bang on, Jerry.

It's as if we think we can contract out the job that we must learn to do ourselves....which is a symptom I think of how our failing system has trained us to think. It has taken away so much of our autonomy, in so many ways. Perhaps, we have 'allowed' it to take away our autonomy...again, I just don't know...maybe I'm just getting discouraged.

"We are not yet Greece. Though it is what is next."

Yes, exactly.... sometimes in your comments you thank the ever arrogant self-interest of the ruling class for making it easier for the masses to rally finally against them... and bring them down, I understand that now in a way I didn't before. As Harper strips more and more of Canada's regulatory powers/saving grace away, strips our social system/saving grace down to the bare bone, and steals more and more from the poor and the middle class in order to reward his corporate friends, he is blowing down his own corporate house of straw....hopefully upon their own corporate heads.

Faint Hope - International Solidarity?

Lynn wrote "I just don't know anymore.....the tea leaves are terribly confusing these days." I agree, it's impossible to predict where all of this will lead. However, what seems clear to me is the following:

1. The class war is global
2. One side, Capital, realizes this and has, since the end of WWII, been putting in the place the capability to act globally
3. That process is virtually complete - Capital is now able to act/react with almost unlimited speed and scope and with virtual impunity. (the means of) Production has been moved substantially to China, etc.
4. The other side of the class war, Working Class/labour/ordinary people, have yet to properly realize the global character of the Class War. They see Greece, for example, as a completely separate country with its own problems rather than a 'front' in the global class war.
5. The capitalist class is "winning" - it's pressing its advantage, driving up inequality everywhere (alarmingly, in most cases, such as Canada), smashing unions, etc.
6. So long as this war is fought asymmetrically, global capital vs. local/national labour, capital will continue to win (over the medium to long term - global capital can always 'work around' or wait out a local setback)

If this analysis is correct (I welcome reasoned arguments to prove me wrong), the only real hope for turning around the humanitarian/environmental disaster of global capitalism and its agents (i.e. Stephen Harper) is for the ordinary people of the world to coalesce, that is to practice true international solidarity.

I know this may seem like an impossibly tall order. However, there are certainly signs of this happening, obviously with the internet and particularly with the young people of the world. What we need, of course, is a worldwide 'Day of Rage'.This is where it gets back to the tea leaves, but do people see this as a (however faint) hope? Or is my wish simply father to that thought...

With Apologies to John Lennon:

Ev'rybody's talking about
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism
Isn't it the most
All we are saying is give Jack a chance
All we are saying is give Jack a chance

Ev'rybody's talking about
Ministers, Sinisters, Banisters and canisters,
Bishops and Fishops and Rabbis and Pop eyes,
And bye bye, bye byes.
All we are saying is give Jack a chance
All we are saying is give Jack a chance

As Lynn says: "Jack is reticent, just like the rest of us."

Yes, Greece is not so far away.....

"If this analysis is correct (I welcome reasoned arguments to prove me wrong), the only real hope for turning around the humanitarian/environmental disaster of global capitalism and its agents (i.e. Stephen Harper) is for the ordinary people of the world to coalesce, that is to practice true international solidarity." - Bevanite

Enjoyed reading your comment and I very much agree with your above suggestion. How else will we be able to address the exceptionally good observation you make that: "Capital is now able to act/react with almost unlimited speed and scope and with virtual impunity."

The speed of capital's reactions is certainly a major strength of theirs at present. It would seem paramount that we become able to respond in kind and that means finding our own strength and retaliating from that position of strength - found in our numbers, in our shared experience of the loss of our human rights, the severing of so many of our rights as workers...and also why not use our global diversity as a way to confuse and challenge the devious nature of the capitalist class and their obsessive love and dependence upon predictability especially in relation to their sacred market forces?

International solidarity will take some massive and intricate organizing forces - but perhaps it is as easy as just doing it. The internet offers that hope as you say, although the capitalist class control freaks are on to that as well.....no surprise there. We will have to figure out how we can define the rules of the global game according to our own trajectory so that we are not merely reacting defensively to 'their' moves.

Benanite

And don't the corporations know this! That is why a large chunk of their cash goes towards preventing this - in large part through spreading dissent among all of us who really do have common goals. That's how Harper (for instance) won his majority - he scared the bejeesus out of Ontario. A rational voter would see that some kind of social contract is in each of our personal interests, as well as those we hold in common.

But Harper first took good paying jobs away, then brought back second rate jobs - and threatened the removal of those if anyone but he formed the next government.

Amazing work

I don't know if I've ever seen a more perfectly packaged bundle of revisionist isolationist psuedo-left delusional narcissism. Well done sir.

Blah blah blah

In Nova Scotia they had such high hopes for the NDP cleaning up the dirty politics of that province.

Very quickly it became apparent that it was business as usual and the party should change it`s name to the NCP (New Conservative Party).

(Just as the *Liberal* Party ought to be rebranded *The Other Conservatives*.)

It should be abundantly clear by now that the federal NDP are not going be any different if they ever form a gov`t.

Notice I didn`t say attain power because the true reins of power are firmly in the hands of the wealthy elitists.

In any case with Dictator Harpy at the helm, I greatly doubt Canada will ever have another so-called free election. If cutting off the funding for opposition parties doesn`t kill them off, Harpy will simply use some flimsy excuse to outlaw them (say when rampant conservative corruption and incompetence finally crashes the economy, he`ll blame them....)

Rick W.

Hopefully, Jack and the rest of us will all get bolder....;-)

To remain so reticent is suicidal.

Otherwise, like your Harper majority example above we are all just consenting to be manipulated by a system that is intentionally devised to be stacked against us.

Then the only free position for us is to remain outside of it all - where we still have a measure of autonomy that is free from their tight control.

If the NDP and Layton become merely New Liberals (which is what Murray Dobbin, at least to me, is addressing here) there is no hope for any kind of change, let alone radical change. Liberals have never represented the poor or the working class. So every time Layton represents the interests of the center, he does so at the cost of the poor and of the disadvantaged and of the working class....because the interests and more importantly, the power and wealth of the center/right rich are being achieved through the enslavement of the poor, the disadvantaged and workers - through the legislated loss of their human rights...and through the legislated loss of the common good.

So Jack can't have his cake and eat it, too.

He has to choose.

And so do we.

Jerry often tells us the outside has its charm. ;-)

If enough of us congregate there........?

Rick, again -

This is waaaay off topic, but you gave us John Lennon so I thought that you and some of the Tyee commentors might enjoy this...maybe even Mr. Dobbin might like it...it's Laurel and Hardy dancing to Santana. Since there is not much to smile about these days hope this will put a smile on your face. Love it - hope you will , too -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkZGg0qNdCc

Give Jack a Chance...

"So Jack can't have his cake and eat it, too.

He has to choose.

And so do we." Lynn

Oh, I think Jack is going to get his chance anyway, RickW.

I would only draw to your attention that this guy Dominique Strauss-Kahn, former head of the IMF and now charged with raping the hotel cleaning woman, and the head of the government now in Greece, are both "Socialists" of the NDP style. I hope the NDP turns out to be different, but these ideological "social democratic" movements" all around the world have all pretty much gove from being critics of capitalism and advocates of serious "change", to US style "liberal democrats". My hopws are not high, frankly.

lynn

Laurel & Hardie was a hoot! Thanks for that.

Yes, he does. But right now, he has a whack of newbies he has to babysit. Let's face it - he didn't think that even half of them would actually get elected. Now he has a "windfall" ....more like a "tiger by the tail".... that he must shape to be able to take on the Harperistas. For that, he needs some time and forebearance.