Another laughable sell job!

Oh boy the government is going to force "smart meters" to be installed on every residence in BC. In fact they claim they are doing us all a big favor and it is for our own good because it will save us money and be good for the environment and only cost us a billion. I would say according to the track record of the corrupt Liberal government, nothing they say or do is for the benefit of taxpayers or ratepayers but always fills the pockets of the insiders. Clicking on the " 30 million " link in the article takes one to the BC Hydro site and an explanation containing the feeblest of reasons we should welcome " smart meters " and feel good about it. Not very convincing but Hydro is not selling the next boondoggle the Liberals are.

Welcome to 21st century Canada, eh

I may be a 'little' paranoid these days, but when a government as trustworthy as the Campbell Conserv... oops, sorry (I keep getting his politics confused with that Harper mulroneyclone fellow) I mean as trustworthy as the Campbell Liberals decide to connect a little electronic black box with a computer to my house that has the capability to remotely report God knows what (not allowed to ask) to God knows who (refer back to the 'little' paranoia), it makes me think of Geo W Bush and his clandestine monitoring of the general public for Security Reasons. This new electronic installation on every residence in BC (will the rest of Canada be far behind?) would certainly make Orwell's 'Big Brother' a very real possibility in the here and now. All we need now is Campbell TV

Another spin.

With anything this government does you can expect the exact opposite.
They say that these meters will help you to alter your energy use but what they really mean is that they now have a way to charge you more for electricity in peak times. It's just a way to put this usage into that bullshit "extra energy" on your bill. You know, the one that charges you more after a ridiculously low kilowatt usage per month. Now they can rip you off by the minute. All the while adding the HST.

Your argument is flawed

In my personal opinion there are a couple flaws in your opinion.

First, if you look at the actual cost of these units on a per customer price it is about the price of an iPhone.

Next, you must actually look at the difference in price between what is already put on the side of your house with the smart one. The old ones need to be replaced periodically, the new one is just an upgrade. The difference in price for the upgrade is maybe half the price (just an educated guess).
When you get a new car you don't go buy another 1980's toyota just because that is what you used to have; you get a newer one that takes less gas and has more options.

You must also look at how much money the meters save as a meter reader no longer has to visit each house in the province once every month or two.

Next you make the following statement with almost nothing to back it up:

"Smoothing out the daily consumption pattern a little has a negligible impact. We're talking about postponing the need for a major transmission line by a few weeks or months, perhaps, if smart meters perform as perfectly as their proponents claim."

Actually many capital investments can be deferred for years. When I was growing up, I lived in a house that was on Time of Use. About 60% of our energy consumption was during off-peak hours (this is really an anti-peak if you think about it).

Smart is Dumb!

First. Logical BCer, when was the last time your electrical meter changed? I don't know about you but I have never had mine changed. You must be a heavy user if yours was. Second. If they are forcing these things on us why should we have to pay? Whenever a meter was changed or installed on a new property it was Hydros cost. Third. As Crankypants suggests, I'll lay dollars to donuts that it's LIbERalS contributer that gets the contract and lastly, this is just another way to get more money into Hydro's hands so it can go directly, "do not pass go", into run of river pruchases. There will not be any savings to the average consumer. My moneys on the table, wanna bet?

Campbell has seen the light ??????????

Come on everybody, this is nothing but another big monem making scam.

Campbell is using the elctrical consumption to justify making another large company very rich - at the expense of the tax payer I might add.

Given the propensity for the Campbell government to lie and distort factual information, I for one, consider this to be nothing but a (tax) money grab. In another situation where things are as they seem, then maybe there might be some advantage t these meteres. Since this Bc Liberal government is so dishonest, unreliable, notoriuosly out of touch with reality, I would say this is just another un-necessary expense to fuel Campbells own need for (totally inaccurate and qeustionable) media attention.

The money involved would be much better spent on social services, education, health care, than wasted on dubious and politically motivated schemes. Remember all the hoopla about BC not being an exporta of electricity - same deal and more lies.

Anything that Campbell says these days automatically gets well deserved sceptism and cynical comments. Unfortunately, this government cannot agree on what lies to tell and keep them constant - what a show of real professionalism and integrity.

The sooner the world know how corrupt this government is, the better for British Columbia. As usual, the main stream media are looking the other way and will print whatever Campbell wants - regardless of what the truth or accuracy is.

Thank you - phew, what a way to start the week, CAMPBELL, LIES AND CORRUPTION all in one sentence !!!!

fewer jobs

as a by-product meter readers will lose their jobs, right! As with every new idea the main objective seem to be to eleminate workers and union jobs.

1000 megabits free to the home

The main reason the Canwest Gordo wants smart meters is to disguise the more than doubling of power rates required by his $65B stockbroker run pirate power scam. By blaming the user for not staying up to 3 am to wash dishes and do the laundry, it's the user's fault his power bill doubled.

$1B spent on mass produced nuclear power would increase BC Hydro's capacity by almost 20% far more than the tiny amount smart meters would save.

The one major benefit of smart meters would involve spending a one time hundreds bucks extra per meter on the communication channel to give every business and residence in BC one thousand megabit per second almost free internet service combining TV, telephone, meter data and wireless on one giant pipe. Given the kind of money Big Telecom dumps into the Gordo's pockets, what are the chances of that happening?

The main reason for "smart meters"

IMHO is to increase revenue by charging premium rates to families who have no choice but to use hydro during peak hours. What are they going to do? Get ready for school at 3 am? Eat supper at 11 pm? These people are not grounded in reality if they think that will happen. It's a complete waste of our money (once again) by the Lieberals. We need to get rid of them right now!

It should be interesting to

It should be interesting to see just how so many apartment buildings, co-ops and strata buildings will mount the thing, as the places mentioned don't have the conventional meter on the outside wall but down in some electrical room along with each units master switch? We are not big electrical users but manage to hit both tiers most of the time and a recently included user subsidy which name I can't remember. Adults know when their biggest use of electricity is and no smart unit is needed to tell us. Electric heat cost increases in the winter and light use as well , nobody needs to be a rocket science to figure that out. Maybe we should do the laundry at 2 AM as we cook dinner. Stupid , costly vision by Gordo . And of course using Gordo's brilliant cost figures the deal is bound to cost much more. Time to get rid of that idiot.

It'll cost us more money

just like most of Campbell's Wizard of Oz type of schemes.

BTW where we live Hydro reads their meters every two months, but they also read Terasen's meters every month.

Someone still has to read the Terasen meters. And I bet it'll be a Hydro guy.

The cost of losing 200 plus family supporting jobs

Bang on Jim, thanks for writing this article. My only comment is about your statement: "off-setting savings like meter-reading". As you know there may be some book savings but the impact to 250 families losing their main earner will be great to them and their communities. BC Hydro and Accenture have refused for three years to engage in any discussion about what will happen to these workers. That is shameful.

Nothing new

Smart meters are all over Europe.... they work well in heating water between Midnight and 4am. You just buy a tank that is insulated and rather large.

How would we be better off spending this sort of money? Firstly, any meter that is requested or replaced should be the latest in technology ( smart meters). Secondly, keep the solar grants coming. Solar hot water heating is so easy and pain free it is a wonder why more people don't invest in this technology. Finally the answer to our addiction to BC Hydro is to go geothermal. No need to heat your house with gas, oil or electricity. You can even get hotwater from the latest geothermal exchanges. (Boyles law)

The sooner we get this clown Campbell out the better we are going to be. He regularly beats down the weak and voiceless and now has almost eroded the middle. Now what is the economic value of us all having $8/hr jobs? So we spend less silly!

Your target is off

If you're really serious about conservation of electricity (and gas and water), you have to have smarter meters than we have now. First principle of engineering - if you want to control something, you have to measure it first.

Smart meters bring better measurement to the use of electricity. That lets people monitor their usage more accurately, and make smarter decisions about when to use electricity, and how to use less.

Smart meters also provide more info to the utility so that they can generate and distribute electricity more efficiently. It makes the grid more reliable without having to have 2x the power available all the time.

Of course it costs money. Creating the grid cost money in the first place. Generating and supplying electricity costs money. Making people pay for excessive consumption is a way of encouraging conservation.

The entire world is smartening up their electricity distribution systems by installing smart meters. North America, and BC in particular, is way behind on this. Italy has had smart meters for years already. Nordic countries are rolling out smart meters to all consumers. Japan has a program. The US is installing millions of meters.

This is not about politics, this is about improving the electrical infrastructure. Give the conspiracy theories a rest. If you're serious about the environment, you should be supporting this program. If you want to just be a poser, turn this into a Campbell hate-fest.

BC Hydro - your new ISP

Seth had it right in his last paragraph, but probably has the wrong conclusion. Either Hydro gets to become your new ISP or the current ISP's (Telus, Shaw...) are dancing with joy with the opportunity to bid on having a monopoly on supplying a data line into your house subsidized by our tax money and coming in as a Trojan Horse masquerading as a simple power line interface.

Did California Smart Meters Gouge Homeowners?:

Good article.

When Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberals say "trust me".....listen closely....is that the sound of an albatross flying overhead?

The observation from the article quoted below about the Gordon Campbell government introducing legislation to shield smart meters from open public scrutiny combined with the information about the results of installing smart meters in California should make clear why the legislation was introduced.

This has been the BC Liberals' sly modus operandi for years and years now - introduce legislation, not to protect the rights of BC citizens - but to protect corporations from public oversight in order to protect corporate thievery.... and of course, to protect the present provincial government that makes that thievery possible:

Quote:

"Hydro claims that smart meters will pay for themselves in system savings. If this were so, why did the government need to pass legislation to shield them from open public scrutiny? Taking away the Utilities Commission's power to study the cost effectiveness of this billion-dollar investment means that Hydro customers will never have an opportunity to test the inflated promises. Instead, all we have is a "trust me."

Did California Smart Meters Gouge Homeowners?:

http://www.housingwatch.com/2010/06/03/californias-smart-meters-gouge-angry-homeowners/

smart meters

It's an excellent way for a pro-business gov't to launder more of our 'after tax income' to big business under the pretext of 'greening' our habits.

smart meters ARE useful to consumers

The principle of smart meters is no different than having a bank account or water meters - by seeing what you spend, you can budget to avoid going into debt. Sure, smart meters may have some problems, but those are just bugs to be ironed out. I look forward to being able to reduce electrical energy consumption with a smart meter. Smart meters aren't just a Campbell phenom, but are widely used around the world:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_meter

maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=115519311058367534348.0000011362ac6d7d21187

Smart Grid = Another Renewables Type SCAM

It's just amazing how the Spin Artists, try to make this Draconian Ripoff to the consumer look like something good. What utter hogwash! What these Creepoids are trying to do is quietly sneak in Market Pricing for all Electricity Consumers. Demand is High, Supply is low - you pay more - quite likely as much as $1 per kwh at late afternoon peak.

Get Real folks, it is far more sensible and cheaper to use home battery systems to reduce peak demand, than smart metering. And using Nuclear Energy for baseload plus stored or pumped Hydro for Peak & Shoulder load is far more economical than Smart Metering / Renewables. Make Electric Power Generation the servant of the people rather than the master, as Smart Grid & Renewable advocates want.

The pseudo-Greenies of the Al Gore persuasion, look forward to another opportunity to skim billions off of Electricity Sales by using that Market Pricing to gouge more cash out of the already impoverished lower & middle class. Al Gore having already made a cool $billion for himself on Renewable Energy Subsidies and Carbon Trading. To get a good look of what is to come, read this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

The really big profiteering will occur with Wind Energy, when it goes to nil, and reliable 24/7 Nuclear Baseload Power plants have not been built, power prices will skyrocket, enforced rationing of power will occur, since the less wealthy consumers will not be able to afford the high market power price. And the high peak prices and open grid (ISO) will encourage CO2 & Smog Belching, Low Efficiency Diesel & NG OCGT's to sell electricity profitably, rendering the entire Smart Grid concept a fossil fuel gobbler. And encourage industry to install their own fuel guzzling peak power generation.

While these renewables ideologues push their Smart Grid Scam, the entire Grid is exceedingly vulnerable to the next big Solar Storm, which will fry Smart Grid electronics. Instead of the "Smart Grid", what we need to focus on is the Robust Grid, which has low vulnerability to Natural Disasters, Solar Flares and EMP weapons. If the 1859 Solar Storm recurred, as it may in 2012, we will face the collapse of our power distribution system, which would take years to repair, and this wonderful Smart Grid, with Wind Farms, Solar Power plants and Run-of-River Hydro spread out over thousands of sq. miles WOULD BE TOAST!

The coming Solar Storm:

http://newpapyrusmagazine.blogspot.com/2010/03/solar-storm-of-century.html

Turning out the lights on public power

If you have "no open public scrutiny"....you basically have no "power".

And that ain't smart.

No matter how you meter it.

there are benefits

I am with Foobar et al on this. I have seen research that suggests that people will reduce their consumption 15% - 20% simply by having visual access to the info. What is that worth? I am sure others subscribe to Grist, another good website. You will find info there.
I normally have a reflect that whatever Scambell does must be wrong because he can't be trusted but smart meters are in fact smart IMO.

Grow-ops?

You don't suppose there is some way they can track grow-ops with this, is there?

You don't need Smart Grid for Visual Power History Info

Chiro, It is pretty simple-minded to supply Visual Realtime info to consumers of their Power Demand and it doesn't cost $billions. The utility could easily have provided upgraded Digital Power Meters that tranmit that info to your home computer via wireless or off a BSR type home wiring link. That could have been done 20 yrs ago.

Or they could easily have sold a device that attaches to your Breaker Panel to do the same thing.

It is certainly not the objective of the extraordinary hype of the Smart Grid or Smart Metering just to provide the Homeowner with a simple-minded DataLogging CT.

follow the KISS principal

The current meters are simple and very rarley break down. The new ones are subject to all the things that make your computer break down. Hands up all those still useing their first computer. Case closed.

YCSTS, I think you are

YCSTS, I think you are exactly right.

There are big gains to be made for consumers by having detailed knowledge of our minute to minute consumption of electricity. We could have that without an internet connection to Big Brother at the utility company.

But the implications for utility revenue are negative as consumption drops.

This new system provides increased revenue possibilities. The environment may benefit, but consumers won't.

Let's see..

..."$30 million a year stolen by grow-ops", taken from the highly inefficient government coffers, but used to drive the $4 billion a year underground marijuana economy. [To put it in context, the loss is equivalent to 4 hours of 2010 Olympic security.] Economically speaking, what's to fix?

However, our government of traitors reasons we had better clamp down on every single citizen in the province to solve this crime.

Using this twisted sense of reasoning, it becomes clear how our government can bomb a defenseless and non-threatening nation like Afghanistan into smithereens, taking cover under the noble, 'we mean well' excuse as it storms off to eliminate a tactic.

How humiliating must things get before no one can pretend not to see?

smart meters

When we were first told about these meters and that they are already installed in Prince George, it was said that the meters would be capable of being used for other options as new technology became available.

We could well wind up with a meter that can monitor other aspects of our lives that we don't want monitored.

We can't refuse to have a smart meter I guess as they'll just cut off our power. Can anyone see a way around this?

Smart Meters

No one is going to force you to use an expensive program to find out when you use the most power.

Functionally, smart metering will allow BC Hydro to have more information, so they can fine-tune the supply to better match the peaks and lows for energy use.

Smart Metering is about to be required in the UK, simply as a conservation measure.

How else will you know how to price your energy?

The UK already have a system that allows you to fill up your household storage batteries at night, at a lower rate, and draw it down during dinner hour, when you use it ...but this helps you avoid paying a premium price for it.

Once we all have smart meters, it up to each consumer to decide how they will use the information provided....Me, I think I would like to save money on my energy bills, and use energy that I paid less for, when I want to use it...Looks to me like Smart Meters might cost something to install, but without a doubt will save BC energy users money in the long run.

A Cheap Shot Metered Out

Why do all the leftists, pro-NDP writers at Tyee never fail to hook up Gordon Campbell to every decision and issue? I can't imagine he actually choose these meters? Or is this just another chance to take a dig at him because I haven't seen him talking about them on the "Home Improvement Channel."

Aside from the features insignificant and unsubstantiated complaints smart metering is a step towards more accurate measurement and that can only be positive.

And more grow ops are being shut down in in the Lower Mainland. Smart metering is tougher to fool. It's not impossible to fool, but it certainly is better than the old meters.

Why don't you find another more substantive target to pin on Campbell?

marine1941 - Nonsence

BC Hydro could care less about home power consumption. They get all the information they need from SCADA monitoring of Power Feeders and Substations. Just how is knowing what individual homeowners power consumption is going to help them?

And just how are Smart Meters a Conservation Measure? Just so people can see their total power usage. Woopedy-Do. You need to spend $billions so a Central Monitoring authority can gather your power consumption and then post it on a website so you can look it up. Talk about stupid.

How about home energy monitoring that is cheap, effective, private, simple and really tells you what you need to know in Real Time. Makes Smart Metering look like some kind of Sick Joke. All you need is a standardized power transducer that is installed in the home breaker panel and sends total power usage on X10 through your home wiring to a receiver that plugs into any wall socket and has a USB link to your computer. And require the major appliances that REALLY DRAW THE BULK of home energy to have similar units installed on them. Dirt Cheap. That would be the Home Furnace or Electric Heating, the Clothes Dryer, the Water Heater, the Kitchen Range and Air Conditioning. These would transmit power consumption through your home wiring to the X10 receiver which would dump it into your PC, through USB.

So with Not-So-Smart Metering you get one mickey mouse Total Home Power Usage info, available only through a special website, that doesn’t tell you dick about what you need to know on how to conserve energy, And $billions of dollars for Zip. Instead with home X10/BSR appliance power transducers you would know exactly how much power your major appliances are using, have used, when they were on, for how long, how much fuel your furnace uses in real time and history of fuel consumption, with data on Heat Used vs Temperature to pinpoint Energy Loss which must be correlated with temperature for both Air Conditioners and Furnaces. Also fuel use of gas water heaters. Completely graphical information telling YOU everything you need to know.

Just take a look at this Energy Meter for $18.99, tells you what you need to know, far superior to a Smart Meter.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Multifunction-Energy-Meter-Usage-Power-Monitor-AC-Save-/140357300390?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20adf270a6

Make no mistake about, the Smart Metering / Smart Grid is a much hyped up SCAM whose purpose is making people the servants of Electricity Traders and the Authorities. The first step will be to introduce Market Pricing for all Electricity Purchases. And Electricity Trading so Wall St. / Enron types can skim $billions off of Electricity Sales – while producing nothing.

A simple home battery bank would blow away Smart Metering as a way to reduce Domestic Peak loads, while not ripping off consumers with high Peak Power rates.

Better technology to allow

Better technology to allow BC Hydro to maximize billing... why not sound meters to monitor screams and so push rates up to the threshold of bearability?

I smell scam.

No Loss of Jobs

As someone who works in IT;

If anyone thinks these new gadgets will run themselves, leading to lay-offs of a bunch of people, think about this.

During implementation, there will be more geeks, lots more geeks. Then there will be the security geeks, making sure terrorists don't take over their network. It will be a constant vigil. Then there will be the troubleshooting geeks who will try and figure out why your meter is reporting that you run a large marijuana grow op when you actually use very little power, have solar panels, a ground based heat pump and provide additional heat and cooking gas from harvesting and burning farts from your cattle and sheep.

They are computers. They screw up for all matter of reasons. Meter viruses anyone? Better bring on more security geeks. Maybe a few enforcement geeks to work with the RCMP. Some training geeks would be good too. The linemen (linepersons?) who install your meter will certainly need training and a pay bump (and a new laptop) because now they are truck-and-wire geeks.

Law enforcement will love it but citizens will tire of having their doors broken down because they are legitimate large users of electricity or a chip malfunctioned in their wonder meter. Maybe add a few lawyer geeks, just in case.

Meter readers will look cheap even if we pay for the bags of dog biscuits and fuel they go through each day.

Our Corporate Leaders

Our "Corporate Leaders" can, and will, make money. After all, they have been given the power by the voters, to do as their corporate supporters wish.

Is Gordon Campbell smarter

Is Gordon Campbell smarter than a smart meter?
I think not and we are going to show him before he even gets the lid off of this recent billion dollar boondoggle that would more than likely run over like all of his other bullshit deals he has dumped on the people of BC. Elk Falls pulp and paper mill in Campbell River just shut down. There is a surplus of power there not being used. That's not the only mill either. I guess those slot machines in the casinos use more juice than I thought! Or maybe we are just exporting to much power for to little money to the good old you know who!