Seig Harper?

How very Hitlerian.

Skywalker

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Another one of Frank's gross distorions

Leave it to Frank to distort someone's views just because they don't agree with his extremism.

For the record, I've never said a kind word about Campbell or his policies.

Those who know me know what I'm about. And we all know the lunacy that Frank is about.

leftofcentre

[PERSONALLY OFFENSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

police cars

The hundreds of criminal acts by the police should be the main focus of investigations and prosecutions. However our system of having one cop investigate another only perpetuates the, whether real or imagined , perception of corruption within our police forces. It was illegal for the police to leave the first police vehicle unattended in the middle of the road . Anyone else would have had their car towed immediately and if you watch the CBC footage you can plainly see a tow truck in the background . It appears the police car was left there intentionally to be trashed and to incite violence to somehow try to justify their heavy handed response to peaceful protests . I can identify the police who committed crimes but will I get a chance . Not likely.

The long and short of this

The long and short of this whole sordid affair is that Harper is a very sick man.

Wait till you forces the Canada- EU "free trade" racket on the country, selling off our remaining democratic decision making powers.

Ed Deak.

Crazy

The Tyee really brings out the crazy's, doesn't it? I really truely don't understand you people. Would you all prefer that no security was provided, and as a result at least ONE of the world leaders ended up being asassinated on Canadian Soil?
Then all you would hear from all of you is how "Harper didn't care enough" to protect those leaders. Or would that only depend on who ended up being killed?? If the Iranian leader (that great lunatic) was somewow invited and he got killed, you would all be up in arms. If the british or italian leader got killed, and you would probably shrug it off and say oh well..... You really are weird people you know.
If you really hate it so much here, please move to any communist country of your preference. If they would have you of course. But then you wouldn't last very long. People there tend to dissapear if they argue against the government.
Crazy nuts....

Bevanite...

"To somehow pretend that both men don't serve the same elite interests is, frankly, absurdly naive for a Prof of Political Science." wrote Bevanite.

;-) Wink.

And once again...

...The Tyee readership proves itself to be the Canadian equivalent of Birthers, TeaParty members, and 911 Truthers. Yes, there are conspiracies and enemies everywhere...

I'd say more, but I think John Cleese explains it better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLNhPMQnWu4

leftofcentre

You'd know, you were probably a charter member in those organizations as well as being one of the biggest Olympic cheerleaders on this website.

I'm proud to say....

that I am indeed a charter member of the John Cleese fan club.

...but a MODERATE one.

leftofcentre

Only if one thinks your guy Campbell is "moderate", otherwise you're a right-wing extremist.

Frank...

I take it you're going to be very upset when I run for the NDP.

leftofcentre

Not at all, just be truthful with them about your support of Campbell's policies and belief that the NDP shouldn't be for left-wingers and don't take their questioning stares as acceptance.

same shoes? Toronto photos

The shoes again?
Here's the link to Terry Burrows and the TO pictures.

www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19928

Global Research, June 27, 2010

CLAC2010

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100628/quebec-g20-activists-100628/20100628/?hub=MontrealHome

Harper Wants a Police State

This is HARPER'S REVENGE FOR THE PROROGUING PROTESTS!! Silly me. He is a vengeful, vicious, small-minded, mean and petty man. He really got a pounding over proroguing, and there was no way it was going to happen again.

So the Black Bloc creates damage - he KNOWS that most Canadians will just see that and they're too preoccupied or too lazy to look any further. So the media gives him that -- and it looks as if the police and the PM are doing their jobs. I have always been worried that he will use any such occasion (Olympics - Herr Hitler and Eva Braun overlooking a vast crowd); in order to show force. Remember Trudeau's "just watch me"? I think he took that, and Chretien's pepper-spraying protestors to heart and carried it further. Much further.

Quebec City G8 had police-hired agents provocateurs and they had to apologize for it, because photos were analyzed and it could be seen. I'd like to know where the Black Bloc came from, which country.

So - all this stink happens, he hates Torontonians since he was rejected as a homely, impossibly unattractive young man; and it's early in the summer. By the time Parliament resumes, this is all forgotten, he knows Canadian media well -- and the chance to get the bast*rd over it is lost.

Of COURSE He's a Republican!!

Anyone who's paid half attention to Harper knows he's thoroughly influenced by American Republicans, by the Alliance Christian Evangelical Church, and by Israel. That's his Holy Trinity.

I’m still waitin for the real protests

When the establishment provocateurs, (like the organized thugs dressed in black and allowed to set fire and stomp on a couple of old cop cars for show while their buddies in Darth Vader outfits do nothing) get beaten to a pulp by real legit demonstrators who have lost everything, have nothing left to loose and have woken up to this globalists takeover.

No masks

No problems.

numbers and intelligence

Coyoteman, I hope you’re right. I would like to believe that intelligent action coupled with an unrelenting display of dissatisfaction voiced by an overwhelming majority would cause our leaders to rethink their plans for the future. And possibly give democracy a chance.

Unfortunately … at the moment … for a great many folks there appears to be a disconnect between belief and action.

Anecdotal evidence tells us there’s a lot of people that are really pee’d off with the course folks like Harper and Campbell have set out, but they’re struggling with a kind of a dissonance. They know what’s going on will cause a lot of pain yet they continue supporting the system that is responsible.

The unfortunate part of cognitive dissonance is that it can over-ride intelligent behaviour and decision making.

The Plan.

A Gxx summit - great excuse to gift your friends in the Military/Security complex with a billion dollar wind-fall.

But to make this rather large sum of money seem 'reasonable', you need to find a site that will produce a huge number of protesters... small 'l' liberal Toronto fits the bill perfectly.

But why stop there? With a little more work, you can take the Canada – US Civil Assistance Plan (CAP) for a test drive end to end.

You'll need agent provocateurs and a few burning police cars to get you to the 'mass arrest' part of the scenario.. not a problem, get the Montebello crew on it.

Let the boys in black and blue know they're on a long leash - get tough, it's all good -- beating up journalists, dissenters, strip searching women (the younger the better), arresting everyone in site.

Sit back and gauge the response - from citizens, journalists, the courts, your supporters, your opponents...

See how well you can manage the fallout... the MSM, blogs on the internet - the Comments sections on news sites like www.cbc.ca/news. This is the critical part -- how far can this be pushed? How can we do better in this regard next time?

You are SH -- master of the neo conservative universe, smartest guy in the room. Your planning is impeccable, you have mountains of other people's money - corporate donations, the public purse... there is nothing you cannot do.

Leo Strauss would be so proud.

It's ironic that the same people...

...who, in the comments section of the CBC, Georgia Straight and other media outlets, react to the black bloc activists with anger, vitriol and hatred sit back and say nothing as the neocon corporations and their government lackeys destroy the earth and people's lives on a daily basis. These people, unless they're very wealthy, are being raped by the likes of Campbell, Harper and their corporate masters, yet they have bought into the propaganda and actively support (either directly or through apathy) the people who are fucking them over.

What's a few smashed windows and a couple of torched cop cruisers (covered by insurance, no doubt) compared to the real violence perpetuated against the poor and the working class each and every day by the capitalists and their stooges.

However, more and more people are catching on to what is going on, especially those bearing the brunt of the neocon policies. This comment someone posted on the Guardian website speaks the truth:

"Don't worry, the working class knows that capitalism is the best economic system the world's seen, when everything fails they are only to eager to give up a part of their pittance to help the free market. And just think there are some naive people who think that capitalism is on a par with organised crime."

Very good use of irony, methinks. :-)

Excellent story.

Your questions Micheal do answers themselves.

In regards to Harper, he's a brainwashed ideologue control freak who needs to be led to pasture before he flunks the harder tests coming to Canada, tests he he himself has brought upon us. We are right on the tipping point of a grossly overvalued real estate bubble bursting and it won't end pretty. We've got environmental issues, energy issues, peak oil and other resource issues, major international issues and to think that a guy like Harper has been in power for 4 and a half years and doesn't get some of the simpliest of things between right and wrong, stuff that most 6 year olds understand, he should have been replaced years ago.

Its a sad inditement of our opposition leaders to be truthful, as well as the gullability of our electorate and shameless media self interests. From the greeders and war mongers to the oil burners, gun toters and hypocrites masquerading themselves as Jesus worshippers all for fleeting power thats been abused from the beginning:

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100606/harper-message-control-100606/

Propaganda for war:

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100607/afghan-mission-message-100607/

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/06/07/cp-bottled-messages-pmo-afghanistan.html#socialcomments

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/06/07/pmo-message-event-proposals.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harpers-message-control-is-unprecedented-critics-say/article1594049/

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/819779

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2010/06/07/14293451.html

Propagandist, political cult leader or just... paid lobbyist, pick 'em. Harper wears all three hats. But seriously... did Dick Fadden of CSIS really have to speak more plainly to be understood?

Canadians are so asleep.

Harper doesn't know what he wants but he sure like to dictate it

Harper isn't interested in human rights. He's wasted a billion dollars proving that he's afraid of human rights. Imagine, he's taken our money to make our city a war zone.Before Harper we were known internationally for our peaceful ways and respect of human rights. Keep him in power and Canada will become known for the opposite.

Harper is the new Dick Cheney.

Think back to the famous Cheney quotes preceding the invasions of Afghzanistan and Iraq and you will hear shades of Harper.

When I posted my comment about the "Black Bloc" (a name pulled out of the top drawer by the RCMP) I thought it was a bit left of centre, but there is strong support for the notion that the "rioters" were funded by Harper, directly or indirectly. The most likely route would by through John Baird, the Bully Boy of Parliament Hill. This has his stamp all over it.

The thread of logic goes like this. The RCMP had some of their own in the crowd at Campobello, and they were seen being "arrested" by the uniformed cops in such a way that left no doubt they were all buddies. In Toronto, learned their lesson and they hired people who actually looked the part, so they would not be quite so obvious.

Consider that CSIS actually followed the Air India conspirators into the forest near Duncan, that they recorded the testing of the bomb and that they destroyed the tapes afterwards to thwart the RCMP investigation. The RCMP took two years to lay charges in the sinking of the Queen of the North and they have yet to lay charges against their own in the murder of Robert Dzeikanski. These are the Keystone Cops, not Sergeant Prestons of the NWMP.

We have an enormous problem with our law enforcement agencies in Canada and it is time we admitted it and took action while we still can. I agree with Justice Braidwood, except that I think he was only looking at the tip of the iceberg.

The biggest crimes in

The biggest crimes in history have always been licenced by priesthoods as the "spreading of the faith" and the "Will of God", and the biggest murderers and crooks praised as the "defenders of the faith"

Today's scriptural licence and justification for the biggest crime wave in history originates in the economics departments of our universities and the power of the stock and money markets based on their fraudulent theories.

Toronto was a great example.

Ed Deak.

Who wants Chaos?

For just once, why don't we try and take responsibility for our own actions instead of blaming Harper or the cops or anyone else.
What does it say about our society, when the lawful, honest, genuine people with a point to make, allow the thugs to carry on as they did?
Do you think the guy beside you with the brick and black mask is a good guy?
Why the mob tolerated the thugs says a lot about where we are as a mob.
To suggest that honest, law abiding people should not be able to assemble anywhere they like, because of the fringe terrorist/criminal elements in society, says a whole lot more about us as well.

It Is Huge...

"I would like to believe that intelligent action coupled with an unrelenting display of dissatisfaction voiced by an overwhelming majority would cause our leaders to rethink their plans for the future." KWD replied to me.

Oh, I sure as hell don't think the current ruling class is going to be dissuaded from its current neocon course. They are already too deep into their commitment to it, to turn back now. THEY are going to win this current struggle period, or the dissonance and disconnect amongst the masses of which you correctly speak, is going to be overcome, and a struggle successfully waged to transform society and finally move beyond capitalism (in all its forms). It will be one or the other. Both cannot happen at the same time. And in this still early going, I am certainly not yet at least optimistic, but rather fatalistic.

What will be, will be.

But what is clear, is that sitting on one's hands will certainly achieve nothing, and the socio-economic condition of people's lives will continue to deteriorate... in the current race to the bottom the ruling class has us all launched upon.

This phase even, may not end well for the working class, again, as neither did the last, including ever more for its so-called middle class. But matters as they continue to evolve downward, and the narrowing range of options they will present to people, will also be made increasingly clear: Essentially, suck it up, your ever more third world like standard of living and quality of life, alongside the increasing wealth share going to the ruling class, or rise up, get out on the streets, and change it.

That fuzzy middle ground, wherein one can continue to delude themselves, is already beginning to narrow. And we all, or a growing body of us know it, even the couch potatoes, popcorn and beer in hand, watching the tube and the rest of the world from afar. Though the ignorance, negativism and and clinging to blind faith, no doubt, is still waist deep.

(And I cannot see us breaking out of the current capitalist paradigm ahead of Europe, where the fightback is already more advanced, or especially Imperial USA, where it has yet scarcely begun and conditions are very often worse. Though politics, and the American people, the past has shown me, are sometimes capable of sudden and swift change. I, as will many of you, remember the Vietnam time. And when the American people do suddenly begin to move, they don't fuck around as is our tendency.)

The size of the task at hand should certainly not be underestimated. It is huge.

jimorsheryl

Do you think the suit beside you on the yacht is your friend as his company destroys the Gulf of Mexico?

Do you think the guy next to you at Liberal fundraisers that makes his living off exploiting public resources that he was given by a friendly government is your friend?

Do you think the hypocrites that cheer when mothers on welfare have their benefits reduced or eliminated so that the marginal tax rate on incomes over $250,000 can be nudged down a point are your friends?

If so then you probably think spending a billion so that Harper and his buddies can agree on making the poor poorer is a good way to spend tax dollars.

Is this what Harper wanted

Yes it is what he wanted. Harper is a provocateur. His penchant for divide and rule knows no bounds and have you noticed that he has the people discussing police tactics etc etc and not who set this whole situation up with its inevitable outcome. Even the police have been manipulated. And McGinty. When will we call a black hearted villain by his own name?

Look up the name of SS man

Look up the name of SS man Alfred Naujocks on google and how he started WW2 at the age of 26, on orders from above, with a phony attack on a radio station at Danzig, now Gdansk in Poland.

Ed Deak,

SS man...

Good one, Ed.

a disturbing account of the detention centre

http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/2698

leftofcentre, I hear what you are saying

in that the non-violent majority should have stepped up to stop the violent infiltrators but, by not doing so, they were complicit in the acts. Is that correct?

I would agree if this was a rally going on for an extended period of time, when it was not quite so spontaneous. And, besides, isn't that what the security forces are suppose to be doing to earn their $1 billion payday?

I think you should view these videos and ask yourself, where were the police for 1.5 hours as the couple hundred Black Bloc vandalized the city? Aren't the non-acts, even the tacit consent, of the security forces as they watch the looting going on a far greater affront to your senses than the public not getting involved to suppress the violence?

http://creekside1.blogspot.com/2010/06/g20-black-bloc-get-green-light-to.html

http://creekside1.blogspot.com/2010/06/g20-security-theatre-bait-cars.html

How were the peaceful

How were the peaceful protesters, or the public in general, supposed to have stopped the hooligans?

By beating them up? They would have been arrested by the cops.

Something definitely is rotten here.

Ed Deak.

PS to my previous

40 years ago we had no neoclassical market capitalism, no NAFTA, no WTO, no terrorists, no globalization, no wealth creation, no searches at the airports, no Black Bloc, no passports to cross the border, no riots, no cops dressed up like spacemen, etc. etc.

Makes one wonder, what we have missed to earn all these goodies now ?

Ed Deak.

Frank You miss the point

Harper and his 'buddies' are going to do what they are going to do. They don't need to draw a whole lot of attention to themselves to do it either.
The need for the billion dollar security bill, is because of the black masked, brick wielding thugs who are nothing but criminals through and through. The ones it seems you wish to excuse, whose actions you seem to justify because there are other men in the world driven by greed.

BTW I don't go on ships, nor do I belong to ANY political party, they are ALL corrupt in one form or another. Including the beloved friend of the working guy NDP.

considering that the political spectrum has shifted...

...so far to the right over time (consistently since WWII), "leftofcentre" probably considers himself/herself properly categorized; But so does the Liberal Party of Canada which sees itself as a centrist party.

To prove this point, simply read Lament for a Nation -- All Over Again? (2001) by the late Professor Irving Brecher to see how oblivious even some of the most enlightened can be to the perils of neocon globalism, and the havoc it can inflict on society in such a short time.

www.irpp.org/po/archive/oct01/brecher.pdf

In reality, the extreme right (neocon / corporate capitalism) or the extreme left (communism) yield the same results, effectively coming full circle. Both operate to control the marketplace: the former by monopolistic control of capital, the latter by the state.

As John Kenneth Galbraith famously stated, *Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite".

When we more accurately consider the political spectrum being a circle rather than a line, on the other side of this corporate-capitalism/communism junction sits the true centre of political theory. I also suggest that this is where classic social-democracy resides.

jimorsheryl

The billion dollars was already spent. It didn't matter if the Black Bloc showed up or not, that money was gone.

Supposedly there were 10,000 protesters which means the government spent $100,000 per protester. Think about that stat.

As for the Black Bloc themselves, if they are the criminals you say they are because they broke a few windows and torched a car then what does that make businessmen who do far more damage in an hour than all the Black Blocs in the world do in a lifetime?

By all means go look at a video of the oil spill in the Gulf that's been going on for 6 weeks and then tell me how the Black Bloc should be in jail so that the BMWs belonging to investors in BP don't get torched?

As for your political views you've been a Campbell supporter on here since Day 1, you are a supporter of the corporate world just as much as leftofcentre. Yet, rather than get a hate on for BP its the Black Bloc you hate. Why is that exactly?

Galbraith also said: "The

Galbraith also said: "The purpose of competition is to eliminate competition"

No wonder he never received the Bank of Sweden Prize, falsely called the Nobel Prize for economics tomake it sound respectable.'

Ed Deak.

jimorsheryl, your post

"Do you think the guy beside you with the brick and black mask is a good guy?"

No more than I think the police are here to serve and protect the people. The guy with the brick can give me a lump; the guy with the badge and the revolver can railroad me into prison for a life sentence, or worse, if he is a rotten one.

I've personally and professionally dealt with hundreds of officers, primarily in BC but elsewhere as well, and there is not one I would take on face value simply because he is an officer. He will get my guarded courtesy; any more he earns. No where on earth does a costume or position necessarily entail an honest man.

torontanamo

Some unpleasant details coming out about treatment of the people detained.

Samuidave

Incredible! The guy with the brick can kill you and makes not pretense about anything else.Curious to know why you have had such close contact with hundreds of officers?
I agree, they are just people.But if they are also all rotten, what does it say for the state of our society as a whole, or should I say hole.

Frank

If you don't have a problem with brick wielding thugs, then all I can say, is you are reflecting what is wrong with society in general.
If the money had not been spent on security, and the city was simply turned over to the mob, what do you really think would have happened?
To the point, what does it say about society, when the elected leaders of our nations can not freely assemble without fear of riots?
I simply say, shame on all of us.

jimorsheryl

And if you don't have a problem with corporations doing more damage than all the world's black bloc's combined then its obvious why the Gulf of Mexico is being destroyed.

As for what if the city had been turned over to the mob. Last time I checked Toronto is still there in spite of the massive police presence only on hand for the weekend.

Although a billion wasn't spent on security yesterday I didn't see Toronto in flames on the news although I'm pretty sure it was still possible to find 100 anti-social teenagers in the city. Vandalism happens every day in every city but we don't have to spend a billion every weekend on it.

As for what it says when our leaders can't all sit together and eat salmon and caviar and drink champagne without somebody somewhere breaking a window, it says maybe the leaders elected by 18% of the population aren't that popular among the other 82%.

The Full Circle Theory I

Just because this issue has already been raised here above, and does so from time to time in these threads:

Interesting, though certainly not a new theory of the political spectrum. It's been around a long time too. As usual, I think that real life is a little more complex than any particular theory... including mine to follow. :-) Though I do think that the straight line theory is "relatively" more accurate... in most cases, than this Circle hypothesis. :-)

That said, the character of political movements can and often do shift as they evolve, depending much on the reality wars they get into or caught up in, their resulting changing analyses, and often the opportunist and megalomaniac character of the persons that rise to power within them. (Which is why, in my view, we would fare better if parties and "great leaders" were dispensed with frankly.)

In the case of "The Communists", particularly in Russia and China, they, in the end, ran up against the brick wall reality that it was not possible to build "communism" or even "socialism" in one or even a few countries, especially backward, seriously under-developed feudal or semi-feudal states and economies. It turned out that their ideological mentor, Karl Marx, was actually right on this score...that a truly "communist" society, wherein the working class has actual not hypothetical power, and not just some new elite that would evolve into a new ruling class, was only possible with a relatively highly educated working class coming out of the end time of ADVANCED capitalism. In short it could not be built upon the basis of especially, a collapsing "peasant based" economy, such as both Russia and China were, for examples. (And as I recall, Marx re-emphasised this in a number of his different theoretical works.)

Though most everyone in the CP during that time, because of the initial success of the Russian Revolution, had begun to decide that on this score Marx was wrong, including during my time in the Communist Party, the fact is that Marx turned out to be correct. And without getting carried away in an overlong analysis here, fundamentally what happened in the USSR, later spilling over into China, is that there was a creeping realization at the highest levels, especially during Stalin's time, though apparently understood by Lenin as well, that it was capitalism which actually had to be built in Russia to secure an advanced economy and an educated working class capable of any further social development.

And later Stalin had just the right personality, if in stumbling and contradictory fashion, brutal enough for a shattering of the old communist illusions and the forced march to capitalism. (War conditions and the constant dangers of treachery gave it all an "edge" that was especially pressing.)

Continued next post...

The Full Circle Theory II...

From previous post...

But it was especially under Kruschev and later Gorbachev that the old communist idealism and illusions were systematically dismantled, paving the way for the full "capitalist revolution" and Yeltsin etc. in Russia.

In short, The Communists (of the party) didn't so much complete any kind of a "circle" as simply moved in a direction "away from" the left, for reasons beyond their control basically, and fundamentally transformed themselves (especially in China) into a capitalist party. (In Russia, they were in the end usurped by outright supporters of capitalism, typically from already within the Communist Party. Even Yeltsin, and Putin for that matter.)

This, at least, is crudely more or less my analysis. The traditional left to right spectrum is still "more or less" fundamentally correct, but a lot can happen on the way to transforming society, especially if you get caught out of the appropriate place and time. In which case, reality eventually re-asserts itself, and re-sets the clock, as it has in both Russia and China.

What is different in our circumstances is, capitalism has already been long established and evolved. Its historical mission is essentially complete, so to speak.

Tommy Taylor's personal note on How he got arrested at the G20:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?note_id=397205503638&id=511491565&ref=mf

hope that works... this personal account brought me to tears.

Can't resist adding...

"This, at least, is crudely more or less my analysis. The traditional left to right spectrum is still "more or less" fundamentally correct, but a lot can happen on the way to transforming society..." I wrote.

To which could be added, as the history of the NDP, or what passes for "social democracy" in this country, can itself attest... as anyone who has observed the degradation of the old CCF itself, from a "socialist" party into "just another" party of capitalism NDP today. Only the pretencions remain, like the cadaver of El Cid, propped up on his war charger, going into battle. And it basically occurred over the same time frame as the corruption of the Communist Party of old.

Real life is always, or near always :-), more complicated and convoluted than our theories. All of them. :-)

re: jimorsheryl ; brick man

"Incredible! The guy with the brick can kill you and makes not pretense about anything else. ..."

+++And that is the point. The cop pretends to be looking out for the people's interests while, and though a nice comfortable cover for people to accept, the reality is he is protecting the state (just as the soldiers do). So who is more dangerous? In other words, "know thine enemy".

http://mynews.ctv.ca/mediadetails/2886697?collection=742&offset=0&siteT

'When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty.' ~ George Bernard Shaw

"...Curious to know why you have had such close contact with hundreds of officers?..."

+++Did I say hundreds? It's more likely in the thousands :)

"...I agree, they are just people.But if they are also all rotten, what does it say for the state of our society as a whole, or should I say hole."

+++Society as a whole has a mental ailment brought on by propaganda. Fortunately it is manageable if not entirely curable. Unfortunately, it takes a certain amount of personal diligence to learn about how and why we form the views we do, and then to act accordingly. I say unfortunately because most have neither the time nor interest to vaccinate themselves and keep up with the daily booster shots.

ON AN ASIDE. re: coyoteman's linear political theory.

The linear theory's shortcoming is that it fails to entail the intersecting psychopathic character and autocratic nature shared by the two extreme approaches. Shifting left or right linearly is no different than changing direction on the circle. If it helps, consider the circle tied in a knot where the extremes meet; though you cannot ideologically get past the knot you know they share a bond. :)

GIVE THEM A LITTLE CAKE

Who is in charge here? Obviously not the citizens of this country. It is time to take dramatic action, in whatever way motivates you. Change is needed and we must wrest control from the "Bay Street Bankers". A little cake is only good for a TV sound byte. This was a set-up that the M.S.M. cannot persue as their advertisers would not profit from the public knowledge of how our main stream media was manipulated into justifying the oppression of our own citizens.

Samuidave I think you are mistaken

The greatest single purpose of any government is to maintain civil order. If you don't get that, you will never get it.

You are saying the a street filled with lawless brick toting criminals is favorable to someone charged with keeping the public peace?

Have you ever lived where YOU did not have those police to protect you from the machete carrying mob? If you did, I think your views might change.

Samuidave ... an after thought

I have re-read your post and wonder if you have ever heard that old line ... Paranoia will destroy ya?

jimorsheryl - you are Naive and Gullible

"....The greatest single purpose of any government is to maintain civil order...'

Wrong. And a stupid & meaningless statement. So if people need some degree of security - that justifies a Nazi or Stalinist Police or a Stalinist State?

I watched the videos of the protests, it looked pretty boring to me, not even of the scale of a sports fans going wild after their team wins. The only significant violence was from the Black Bloc, who obviously were being paid to do the damage, minor as it was and the vast majority of violence was from the police themselves against the citizens of this Nation. Compare the G20 to 6 people being shot dead in one evening in a Chicago city - where's the Giant Riot Squad there?

And violence by the police against peaceful citizens, is a far greater crime than some property damage. You have a distorted sense of values.

"...Paranoia will destroy ya..."

And being a nation of gullible fools, will give the ruling elite an opportunity to walk on, exploit and subjugate the people, with no repercussions.

And buy the way, the original "and greatest single purpose" of Government was to protect a population from attack from people outside the nation, not from the inside.

Article a much needed shift of attention!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you, for this post! Unfortunately, the activities OUTSIDE of the G20 meeting continue to receive the lion's share of public and media attention. This problem is particularly acute here in Toronto where we are still struggling to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time; ie, hold authorities to account for the misdeeds of Friday, Saturday and Sunday, while ALSO holding the Canadian government to account for the misdeeds INSIDE the summit.

As I blogged last week myself, we are letting the larger crime escape attention: http://scottawolfe.posterous.com/blog-g20-agreements-what-do-they-mean-to-our

Mr. Harper's clever plan is working, so far. I hope there will be more folks who wise up to this "necessary illusion" before too long. Thanks gain for this excellent post!

Republican tactics

Harpers rock solid base of rapture ready christians, alabama north (alberta) residents, bribeable taxpayers, and selfish old rich people will not give him control of our democracy. The formentioned group lack the easily filibustersed and seniority (reactonist) control that is the US senate. Add the fact that the majority of Canadians are way more decent and caring than our selfish and cruel neighbors to the south and its obvious Harper style facism will not hold in this country. Cheer up folks!

jimorsheryl : function of state; paranoia

A government's fundamental function is to provide the people with a common security, not civil order. Thomas Paine argued this point back in 1775 quite convincingly in Common Sense.

That said, the government does much more, but that is not the issue at hand. Our concern is with keeping the might of the government in check, much like it is a dog owner's responsibility to keep his/her pet in line.

I am not calling for anarchy. I am not defending the vandalism. I am calling for an accounting to be made for the over-reaching acts of 'our' government - for both its pre-summit, dishonest propaganda and for the behaviour of the security forces used at the G-20 in Toronto.

I am no big fan of hers, but Ayn Rand puts it quite well: "A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims."

Most of us have learned that with great power comes great responsibility. This 'great responsibility' was not upheld by 'our' democratic government, in my opinion, at this summit.

I don't want my person violated or property looted any more than the next guy. But I do want the rule of law to govern society. And when the law enforcers and law makers stop respecting the rule of law in order to further a political agenda, I take issue.

FYI, I have lived through a military coup; I have watched tanks stream down the inner city streets; I have lived under marshal law where nearly three thousand people have been summarily killed; I have lived through times with civil unrest where there were thousands injured, a hundred deaths, and where tens of people mysteriously went missing; and I have also been surrounded by a strong-arm division of civil protesters who had an agenda which was very non-peaceful, and it scared me, quite frankly.

And here is what I have witnessed: the real human atrocities are almost invariably committed by the state, either the police or the military, and the recipients are invariable those who take issue with governmental abuses or the innocents rounded-up in a disorganized dragnet.

In closing, after your filling the board with fear about "a street filled with lawless brick toting criminals" and "the machete carrying mob", accusing me of paranoia is rich.

What deeply saddens me is

What deeply saddens me is how defensive and reactionary so many comments are regarding the so called "criminal" element at protests. The same cliche lines are repeated ad nauseum every single time we see a protest unfold in this manner. These kinds of comments don't push our discussions forward in any productive way, but rather, serve only to display the moral superiority of the person commenting and protect their image from any association with those who take a more controversial approach.

Unfortunately, even this article itself trots out the same old cliches. As if 100 people can really "drown out" the message of tens-of-thousands. If we choose to focus obsessively on berating and bemoaning the existence of black bloc tactics, that's our own damn fault - not theirs. They have no control whatsoever over the manner in which people choose to talk about them, or not talk about them. If we believe they "distract" from the "true" message than shouldn't we choose to talk about the so called "true message" instead of wasting so much precious energy trying to legitimate ourselves while denigrating their actions?

The reason the left is floundering is not because a few anarchists take a controversial approach and represent everyone else negatively, but rather, because so many people on the left are more interested in complaining about everyone else on the left and protecting their self-image as a moral vanguard instead of actually doing the kind of work they believe in.

You don't see people on the right bemoaning their own radical elements, they don't give a damn about it. They succeed because they are well organized and don't waste energy obsessively ensuring the purity of their ranks. Fiscal conservatives don't spend all of their energy whining about how poorly anti-choice activists or even neo-nazis reflect on them or blabbing about their own hero-status equivalents to Gandhi or MLK without knowing anything about the complex histories those men are associated with. They just keep their distance from those they don't wish to associate with and go ahead and do what they want to get done.

If you don't like the bloc, don't put on a black mask - and don't waste your energy talking about the people that do. Stick to the points that matter to you and get something accomplished. Dismissing anarchists doesn't achieve anything - nothing more than to scapegoat a lack of any engagement with the difficult question of strategy or with getting down into the nitty gritty work of getting shit done.

Nitty gritty shit...

"If you don't like the bloc, don't put on a black mask - and don't waste your energy talking about the people that do. Stick to the points that matter to you and get something accomplished. Dismissing anarchists doesn't achieve anything - nothing more than to scapegoat a lack of any engagement with the difficult question of strategy or with getting down into the nitty gritty work of getting shit done."

Good comments, sister. Keep trhem comiung here, in these threads. Folks need and want to hear your voice.

Coyote