Nuke the tar sands

No tankering of tar sands crude would be necessary if Alberta nuked the tar sands replacing gas generated steam with nuclear steam, saving big bucks and eliminating production GHG's at the same time.

Tar sands oil would be the most environmentally friendly crude in the world.

We'd need 8 big mass produced Candu ACR-1000 reactors or 300 hot tub sized Hyperion units ($400 kw of steam). The total cost of the zero GHG, clean and green Hyperion units is $9 billion. Natural gas at $4 a thousand cu ft is $3 billion a year. Payback - three years.

Any excess clean and green nuclear power would be delivered to the dunces at BCHydro at a third the price it's paying for dirty carbon intense run of the river power, generating huge profits for Alberta.

Alberta could like Utah, start a motor vehicle CNG program to use the surplus gas for autofuel at 30 cents a liter equivalent.

VANCOUVER OIL EXPORT PORT - NO ENVIRONMENTAL RISKS EH !

Let us all agree, there is no environmental risk in shipping oil in tankers to overseas markets. The industry use the latest and most up to date technology and Canada is well prepared for ANY MAJOR OR MINOR OIL SPILLS ON IT'S 243,000 KM COASTLINE.

Why don't we send the oil south through the pipe line from Alberta and then ship it overseas from Cherry Point, Washington. This is a purpose built refinery port already built and close by - especially since the US is one of the recipients of the "GREEN TAR SANDS OIL"

Or, is it the rich and famous in Vancouver are suffering from a severe case of NIMBY.

The BC coastline is world reknown for it's rich diversity of wild life and coastal ecosystems. Nowhere else is such an area known to exist relatively untouched. Let us keep it this way.

A very good compromise would be to EXPORT GORDON CAMPBELL OVERSEAS and allow a reasonable government to do the right and proper thing. Let us face it, Campbell cares not one iota for the problems he creates - only in money he can make. It is like a damaged piece of machinery that is running out of control - is the only way I can decribe Campbells irresponsible and reckless actions.

Not enough time is being spent on PROPER ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS - as evidenced by the new "complaint" from the recent meeting of the Western Princes Premiers.

Thank you

nice history

Once again, no news, but sums up the history of oil shipments very well. Conspicuously absent is any comment from Kinder Morgan about its further expansion plans. Didn't they return calls?

If you got one of the senior execs on the phone, ask him about the potential for a new tanker terminal outside Vancouver Harbour. I'm convinced that's the long range plan, once they've developed the market. Other possibility is to expand the pipeline south and ship it all from Bellingham -- but that would be tricky. Oh, and ask him how scheduling is going for another call on producers to express interest in further expansion. That would give you a clue.

Oh -- and don't think it's just China. There's lots of customers in Asia besides China. One more thing -- ask that KM exec how they feel about their own pipeline proposal to Kitimat. Bet they're not too keen on it right now.

Next time you guys take a run at this -- why don't you see if you can crack some actual news into it. If nothing else, it would give you a better lead.

I'll give you this -- you might have woken up a few sleeping enviros who seem oblivious to what goes on under their own noses.

Oilspill

The boardrooms that are running our government can be likened to a major oil spill. A spill that is polluting our society. Seeping into every crack and cranny, overwhelming the electorate (wildlife), an causing damage that will take decades re mediate, if it can be done at all. Wresting the power from the Bay Street Moguls, back into the hands of the people, will be the only way to stop the avarice of these tyrannical fools. Write to your MP and tell them our country is not a "business" open for exploitation by the highest bidder. If China wants our dirty oil they should be made to pay one hell of a lot more to absolutely insure our environment and our shores are kept totally safe.

More Assumptions ?

It's nice to ASSUME a scenario for the sake of creating a "SKY IS FALLING" op-ed, but is the Port of Vancouver really practical? If one considers the far more practical and probable ports of Prince Rupert, Kitimat and even Roberts Bank, the "urban eco-guerrillas" would not be as ready to set their hair on fire.
As for being against trade with Chine, it's a tiny bit late for that dead horse.

gateway to china

voracious china looks to kanada for more and more raw resources to modernize and raise their standard of consumption. and they have hordes of emigrants to colonize the frontier-- take a look at richmond, where the first thing they do is to buy a vehicle. in practical terms the issue of tankers in burrard inlet can at least restrict their size to navigate through the hazardous channel.

the gateway road and bridge project is a red carpet to china, firmly endorsed by the feds and provincial liberals, a done deal.

Good Article Mitchell

The economics of shipping crude oil mean that the industry will strive for ever larger vessels, and therefore will always test the limits of capacity and control.

The output from the oilsands will continue to increase, as will demand from China.

There are some advantages of shipping oil from Vancouver. The bottom is soft, and it is therefore less likely to cause a hull breach than up in Douglas channel which has a very rocky and irregular shoreline.

There are also many local assets that could be rapidly deployed to assist a vessel with a propulsion or control problem, such as the nearby fleet of Cates tugs.

The risks of a spill will however, continue to increase with the increase in shipping.

the cost of new outlets is a small part of the problem

If nuclear power is truly as benign as some folks want us to believe, why waste it on the production of dirty energy?

According to CBC News, January 17 (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/01/17/oil-sands.html), the answer can be found in the minutes of a January 2006 meeting of U.S.and Canadian oil executives and government officials, where the U.S. proposed a five-fold increase in Canadian tar sands production. As soon as possible.

Using present technology, the northern Alberta tar pits are already the largest producers of greenhouse gases in Canada. A five-fold increase in dirty energy production, whether using natural gas of nuclear energy, won’t reduce greenhouse gases but it will turn much of northern Alberta into a toxic wasteland.

If the Cree or anyone else living downstream of the tar sands think they have water and health concerns now, just wait ‘till extraction goes nuclear.

BP Has Been Required to Post $20 Billion.......

.....for cleanup and compensation. It has been estimated by some parties that the total loss to the carribean area is/will be around a trillion. So what is $20 Bil going to do?

Likewise, all the so-called "preparation" for the BC coast won't amount to a hill of beans (except for the appearance of doing something by certain political hacks).

Louisiana Crying about the oil spill...and wanting compensation

and then crying about the Gulf oil and Gas industry being shut down and 20,000 sector workers need to get back to drilling!

Humanity is becoming a sad/bad joke!

TILMA

Its what has encouraged business to set up shop especially when America was talking regulations and Canada was not. Are Canadians ready to pay the price because BP is also drilling for gas in BC as Billy Boy gives it his full hearted approval saying what could go wrong as he gives the go ahead to a company with NO CREDIBILITY? Western Premiers have ensured Oil Investors that one way or the other the public is going to pick up the tab.

Oil Spills Can Oil Gaurantee

What are the odds of one happening does anyone know because it sure sounds like risky business as there just are no gaurantees no matter how careful as the venture is contigent on other variables like mother nature as in NF as wells are deepest and mother nature could turn the tide.

Vancouver -- the "world's

Vancouver -- the "world's greenest city" in the words of Mayor Gregor Robertson
===========

lol ha ha ha the only green is cash of the rich. No one else can afford to live in Vancouver..lol

Oil sold to China?

Excellent summary of the situation. It is important to note, as this article does, that China (state owned companies) are not only buying oil sands oil,they are buying producing companies. This practice, which has been encouraged by the government of Alberta, of Canada and by numerous business commentators, will make it virtually impossible to regulate the oil sands as the province of Alberta, and to a lesser extent the federal government will be beholden to China for its revenue much as many African countries are and in the same way that colonies were. From a strategic perspective this is shameful and shortsighted

Oops, Sorry!

AND these are essentially, sans Capitalist China, the same global forces deep water "mining" the Gulf right now. Oops, sorry for spilling that! Sorry, but I don't have a napkin big enough to sop it up.

It is glorious for the likes of me, watching "the global system" implode upon its own contradictions.

And though my friend Fait Lux, in my view, much tends to over-simplify it some, coming out of his own personal history, in that, that ain't "Communist" China, but "Capitalist Chine" dressed up in and waving a "red flag", he is still essentially right.

The fact is, becoming increasingly clear, "The Communists" LOST the "revolutions" in Russia, China, and elsewhere like Vietnam even. There, as here in this country and the neocon overthrowing of the post war social contract in our time, we are back to the real face of Industrial Revolution/ Fascist Capitalism. And this came via treachery, the naiveté of the "communists" themselves, and the unpreparedness and political backwardness of "the masses". As time goes by here though, it is going to become increasingly important to understand what really occurred over this post "Great October 1917 Revolution" period.

OR this history will yet again be repeated, with a return to the illusions of "small scale" capitalism, which again evolves into "large scale" corporatist capitalism. For nothing stands still forever, even "petty rural capitalism" and the dreams of the urban "petite bourgeois". Capitalism at any level still nurtures and grows out of the dreams of individualist greed.

Greater democracy within the economy for the working masses, not dictatorships of any form, the "so-called" proletariat or otherwise, and flowing there out of, this new form popular democracy, such political institutions as may prove necessary. Democracy is the key to opening up the future to new, truly "revolutionary" possibilities.

Communism and modern

Communism and modern capitalism are idiot twins under the skin, both ran by ideologically pure cadres waving different coloured flags, but with the same intent of collectivization the economy, while calling it "freedom".

The former communists in the former Iron Curtain countries are now the biggest capitalists and for all practical purposes, little has changed, apart from the colour of the flags and the name of the prophets used to rule, enslave and steal .

The Cold War armament hysteria was about foreign occupation threatening the "freedoms" of both sides, which is now being accomplished with non existing, imaginary capital and the same government are jubilating over the "wealth creation". .

As I wrote on the subject of the coming Prosperity mine disaster, we export our resources to China, then buy back the manufactured products so they can use our money we pay them to buy up the country from under our feet.

Brilliant economics !

Ed Deak.

No Crude, only Refined Product

Its a given the Refined product creates JOBS in Canada, its less damaging to the environment when short sighted cost cutting leads to the inevitable tanker crash. Do the right thing, creat jobs in canada, and reduce the harm when spill the stuff.

Chinese demand for cars

I recently attended the British car show in Vancouver. One fellow had a note explaining that running a car for very many years was a wise use of resources. He noted a prediction that Chinese demand for cars would be 120 millon per year by 2030 (??).

Before the economic downturn global annual production was about 90 million vehicles, but fell off significantly with the economic downturn. Demand in China for 2010 is expected to be 17 million.

Just wait till peak oil hits. It's going to be rough!

From Wikipedia [Automotive Industry]:
"Around the world, there were about 806 million cars and light trucks on the road in 2007; they burn over 260 billion gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel yearly."

Nobody is responsible for

Nobody is responsible for the Gulf oil rig explosion.

The rig was built in South Korea, registered in the Marshall Islands, it was operated by a Swiss company, the safety inspections outsourced to another private company and the crew was cut to bare bones "to save money" etc. etc..

The same wealth creating rules apply to all tanker traffic, with thousands of ships registered in countries of convenience, without any rules, or responsibilities.

In case of any disaster around Vancouver, the same excuses would apply.

Democracy is dead, the world is ruled by the multinational corporate mafia, endorsed by so called "economists" and enforced by bought governments.

Ed Deak.

So...

"Democracy is dead, the world is ruled by the multinational corporate mafia, endorsed by so called "economists" and enforced by bought governments"

All that is left is the coming implosion when all the 'assumptions' fall apart (e.g. oil forever).

This may be the information age, BUT...

We love to call our current era "the information age', but in reality, these are not single distinct eras, but ones that build on top of each other. The age of coal was largely replaced by the age of petroleum, but all our modern technology is built on those two foundations for energy, petrochemicals, and plastics (or 'engineering resins' as one company touts them).

I've been looking at a book I gave to my son, a Lee Valley Tools reprint of the "[The Boy's] Book of Trades." Originally published in 1865, it was intended to summarize the work of various trades to potential apprentices. It is truly a look at another time, where Industrial Revolution machines were just starting to change production of some products, particularly by replacing human labour with machine. I read about gilding, the trade of applying gold leaf to home decoration and picture frames. All the glues and coatings are made from linseed oil and animal hides.

Real shellac is still available, being the secretion of a tropical insect. But think of the vast array of coatings and glues brought to us by modern petrochemistry.

It's a peek into another world, and a stark reminder of how much we have changed in 145 years. Yes, we've come a long way, but we still need coal to produce metals and generate electricity, we still need oil for transport fuels, road building and petrochemicals. And we use a lot of these fossil fuels.

Dave.....Look up the 9 back

Dave.....Look up the 9 back issues Lee valley's "Wood Cuts" magazine, published 91/92.

I had several articles in them on fine woodworking and also have done all the Shop Tips illustrations.

Generally, excellent articles all around. Too bad the mag didn't make it.

Just waving my own flag.

Ed Deak.

Seth - In the long run, the Tars Sands make little difference

Let's agree to disagree on CANDU and nuclear power. The reality is that the Tars Sands synthetic crude amounts to 3% of world production. Even the IEA has acknowledged that the Tar Sands WILL NOT make up for the drop in conventional oil production as peak oil kicks in. More conventional oil must be found.

In the meantime, China and India are getting involved in the Tar Sands to reserve a piece of the pie, as small and insignificant as it may be in the grand scheme of things. If we were a planet of 1 billion people, the Tar Sands would be significant.

Better read up on wood gas/producer gas and see what experimenters and small companies are doing. At least half a million vehicles in ran off 'producer gas' in WW II USA.
See -- http://wood-gas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/woodgas12.pdf

Said long ago, but no less true today.

"If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that too."

* W. Somerset Maugham, in Strictly Personal, ch. 31 (1941)

Love it.

With all the whining and snivelling going on about the northern pipeline traffic will now be forced onto a half century old pipeline. This could prove very interesting and much more messy.

Ship traffic can be managed and pipelines can be properly built and maintained.

Less time should be spent saying no and more should be put into ensuring that disasters don't happen but we still get jobs done.

Ed -- Wood Cuts magazine

Ed, you are entitled to wave your own flag. A Google search suggests the magazine is pretty rare. I don't know if the Vancouver Public Library has it in its collection. Hope you are doing well.

I've said it before

And I'll say it again. We need to have a closer look at the regulatory and enforcement regimes. ie Transport Canada and other Ministries.

In every single area of transportation and logistics the government is paring down regulation and enforcement. Transport Canada refers to industry as clients and the refer to labour as "labour". Like labour has a hidden agenda.

Well in discussions like the one on this thread arise, labour more closely speaks for community. Industry speaks for industry, CEO's and dividends. They are not concerned with the environment, working conditions or community, they are concerned with the profits for this quarter.

At the very same time tanker traffic is increasing thru the Second Narrows under the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge, the Port of Metro Vancouver is laying off port staff, including those who work on the Harbour Master patrol boats. Also Transport Canada is working with industry to reduce manning standards on harbour tugs that keep ships off rocks. And the shipping industry is working hard to decrease their contribtions to Coastguard and thus causing a reduction in costguard services. They have a new Commisioner who was at TC and responsible for decreasing inspection regimes in aviation.

Can you folks see where this is going?

On the rocks eh!

We need to press our MP's. MP's like Hedy Fry and Ujahl Dosanngh and sleepy out there in Port Moody. Yeah, James Murphy, thats it. Those folks have to hear from us.