Carole James is???

she needs to resign tomrrow monring for total and complete imcompetence.

This and Rail gate are reason enough to go public, go loud go often.

Use whatever tools are available even if necessary treason - yes treason.

They are all the same

Sean Holman has it right about the pathetic NDP opposition response:

" in British Columbia, the New Democrats' first day response to the HST didn't have any fire and brimstone. Instead, in a wet noodle and tapioca news release"

"The New Democrats simply don't seem to have what it takes to be British Columbia's opposition. And, if the party can't do that, it certainly doesn't have what it takes to be British Columbia's government."

http://www.publiceyeonline.com/archives/004097.html#more

The only thing I can find about the NDP opposition response to the HST is:

"The NDP says the tax will be $36,000 on an $800,000 home;"

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Liberals+didn+break+promise+just+changed+their+minds/1834571/story.html

Who here can afford an $800,000 home?! The NDP don't care about low income BC'ers any more than the LIEberals.

Everybody - Viva La BC Visionistas! - A new way to govern!

Thanks Bill.

I can't believe how blatantly the liberals can lie their way into office and seemingly their cheer leading section sees nothing wrong. Election fraud is exactly what it is.

Announced in the summer while the NDP are on holidays and everyone else is down at the beach basking in the sun. Where are the watchdogs? Their job is to do more than occupy at seat a few times a year and collect a big paycheck.

Campbell doesn't know truth if it bit him in the arse. The NDP can't mount an effective response if their lives depended on it.

I wonder

If those, and they were many, who decried the Conservative's GST cut, will now praise this increase in tax? Dream on.

I'm sure they'll find a reason, although it might take a while before they can clearly twist their spin. Perhaps they'll cry that restaurant meals and entertaining in general are sacrosanct.

Bill need not worry about his clients since they will be able to recoup the 12% as ITCs, as they do in the provinces that already have a HST system. Instead of remitting taxes to two jurisdictions he will only remit to one. The bookkeeping will be halved.

@Herman

This has nothing to do with Glen Clark`s deck or the NDP...........Take a pill eh!

And when the NDP and Carole went after the Campbell gas/tax the great Suzuki and Berman with help from the media and Liberal spokesman marc Jaccard blindsided the election campaign......
And when the NDP wanted to raise the minimum wage the restraurant gang went ballistic,the new Hansen/Campbell tax was announced on thursday past and lets see.
Lets see who starts hollering the loudest,the NDP can`t stop the tax,even if some previous exemptions are brought back in the NDP won`t get any credit for it............

As far as I`m concerned this tax revolt must be borne out by the people,if the sheep,the liberal voter accept this tax so be it,I am afraid that this tax must come to be and..........

How many times have I been banned for calling Campbell every name in the book,calling him a liar,a law breaker,a promise breaker,an untrustworth piece of garbage......
How many of us here warned of Run of River,more health cuts,education cuts,how many of us here complained and wrote Canwest papers,called radio stations everyday........

Your outrage Herman,you probably voted Liberal....

My heart goes out to Lynn/Zalm/Ross K/Koot/G West/Grumpy/Skywalker ......Sharing is good,my god sharing is good was shouting from the roof tops warning about the Campbell doctrine :Steal from the poor to give to the rich:.......

I left many out who pleaded for the public to listen,Seth,thank you for calling the radio stations everyday during the writ.
The tax will go forward,it will hurt the poor,it will hurt the economy,but unfortunately that is what it will take to put the Liberals in the penalty box.........
Enjoy 3 years of heavy taxation,the NDP,along with their new leader(John Horgan) can promise to bring back all the present PST exempt items,cable/hydro/telephone/funerals/meals/food.....
And Canwest,if the flesh hasn`t rotted from their dead body yet can spin how lowering taxes will destroy all the good the Liberals have done and Bill Good can feature Suzuki and Berman And Jaccard warning of enviromental harm from lowering taxes.......
And maybe,just maybe the voters will vote in someone who cares,cares about everyone,cares about the enviroment........
Other than that people,enjoy the tax ride to hell!

Cheers-Eyes Wide Open

HST

Gas with the HST will go up by 7 cents per litre and by 2012 the carbon tax will be at 7.2% The BC gas tax is already at 14.5% plus in Vancouver the transit tax is at 6 cents per litre and the federal excise tax is at 10 cents per litre. We pay 20% more to buy Canadian gas than Americans pay for Canadian gas.
And yes if business people like a new type of tax then God help us all. As my young daughter states BC the Greatest Place on Earth, if you don't live here!!!

Can't think of appropriate title

Because the appropriate expletive adjectives for the Libs are not welcome in this forum (as it should be).

I should be a natural Liberal supporter, but every time I think I can safely ignore them, I am left spluttering with rage.

This HST decision will really hurt in the pocketbook. Normally I swallow hard and hope the services I pay tax for will be reasonably accessable, but service is deteriorating and this, this HST is harsh. School supplies, kids clothes, diapers, all will be hit.

What about medical supplies for people with chronic health issues?

When I said I was a natural supporter of the Libs, I am a happy small c conservative. I believe in low taxes, low government interference and that all should be equal in the eyes of the tax guy - we should all pay our fair share.

Then reality smacks. The HST obliterates every tax exemption for the politically favored and I am forced to admit this province for a very long time favored the weak, the young, the very old and the disabled, and we gave them a break on making the decision to purchase the material goods to ease their plight and help them on their way.

In 2008 the new additions to the exemption list favoured pet projects like bio diesel wonder if that will be reversed?

If the tax will work to stop

If the tax will work to stop much anxiety-provoking growth, don't be surprised if many more BCers cheer it (and its consequences) than you'd a thought likely.

Stop blaming the NDP

It is time to stop blaming the NDP for the disasters the BC Liberals are bringing to this province. If they attack the BC Liberals, they are attacked for attacking the Libs. If they aren't aggressive enough, a very subjective opinion, the NDP are attacked for being to meek.
I have heard several reports and interviews where the NDP pointed out the flaws in the omitted issues the Libs have since brought forward. I attended NDP rallies during the election campaign where the NDP slammed the liberal performance. None of that was reported, in fact the MSM did not even attend these political events. Nor did a lot of you. The public did not hear what the NDP was saying due to this boycott. And most of you missed it as well.
These policies, HST (one commented the "horse sh*t tax"), IPP's, cutbacks to health and education etc. were not discussed during the campaign by the Liberals, but the NDP did raise them.
Blame the liberals for their own short comings.

I wonder if we did not have

I wonder if we did not have such bias media in BC in favour of El Gordo and had real journalist like until the 90's would they of discovered this lie? would they of reported other things like huge cost over runs to convention centre? Crappy German Ferries? etc like they did with NDP?

This HST would of sunk Gordo during the campaign, but would the bias main stream media of reported it during the election campaign? That Baldry on for Global last Friday was spinning so much you would think this HST was a good thing.

The Libs will win again in 4 years because people will forget this. Remember last year all the screeching and whining about the carbon tax? It did not seem to hurt Gordo.

2013 Libs will have a new leader, the NDP won't. Plus BC has always been a right wing province, just like Alberta anyway. (even before WAC Bennett), The only 3 times the NDP ever won is when the right is split into two parties. Plus the Bias media does not help. Until the right is split into two parties the NDP will never win again in BC.

Yes this post may be doom and gloom but look since the lib/con coalitions in the 40's then WAC for years. Except for the 3 NDP wins due to vote splitting the rest of the last 70 years has been right wing governments. I do not see that changing. BC is a conservative province provincially and even federally contrary to the popular myth out there that tries to make out were all a bunch of left wing hippies....the elections over the last 70 years prove otherwise..

Metric Conversion.....

...is a good example of why business WON'T lower their prices top the consumer.

Back in Manitoba, when things were switching from Imperial to Metric, the quart of milk (40 oz) became the litre of milk (34 oz) approx. 15% less. Yet the price did not drop "because of conversion costs".

It will be the same in this instance.

No laws without debate

it is so very convenient when the Legislature does not sit.
Pass any idea you want and nobody can object!
What gave the government the idea that they can take time off for months and still run the province?

Carole Goes Public

And Global says NDP is too negative and party takes media back lash for exposing Campbell's corrupt lot.
Media spin is NDP play dirty. I'm still pondering on that one as it was the parties job to expose the Liberals of parties dirty dealings you would think. Its still up on media's site and media's run down on the election and how the fine upstanding premier didn't run a dirty campaign just a corrupt province. Campbell then goes on to assure British Columbians the debt was not going to increase this Campbell could easily promise.

So far everything I have seen government do with the publics money is to ensure Big Business gets all the breaks, taxes that is and bail outs. While the rest pick up the tab and this will hurt everyone as most new jobs created were through small business, especially of the restaurant. They will be the first to feel the pinch along with the servers who will be forced to live off their slave wages of $8.00 an hour. Did you know the minimum wage for the USA is $7.25 and in America goods are a lot cheaper.

Hey alive.

You ask, "What gave the government the idea that they can take time off for months and still run the province?" I submit that it is because we now have regularly scheduled sittings. That is unless Campbell decides he does not want one. Where was the "watchdog" mentality when this was agreed to by the opposition. How did this change give Campbell the right to decide that he could cancel a sitting of the house whenever he felt like it.

You would think that all our highly paid MLA's would now be preparing a householder with a list of all the items now subject to the new tax. Even if they have no money left in their communications budgets, which I doubt because I have never received any communication from them, they still have very large salaries, A few dollars well spent might circumvent a useless media. But no, there might be a lot of gnashing of teeth in the backrooms of the NDP but I rather think that the summer heat has got them fried. I may not be as fired up and Michael T but something has to change and Bill Tielmann is doing his part.

As to the rest of you folks, maybe Carole said something on this but I never heard it in small town BC. The media will never beat a path to her door, that is a given, so she needs a change in strategy or leave and take many of the sleepy MLA's with her. The job is for 7 days a week and all year. That is what the big bucks were for!

NDP response

Reading the above comments, I'm reminded that the Tyee is not immune from the pitfalls of anonymous free speech on the Internet. For a second, I thought I was reading Craigslist Rants & Raves. However, as I re-assess my recreational online priorities, I wanted to point out that the NDP has responded to the HST, but Carole seems to have left this role to environment critic Rob Fleming. I was listening to him on the the radio yesterday and he made some key points. The Campbell Liberals have invested much of their political currency into a commitment to save the world from greenhouse emissions. If they were serious about that, the HST would have at least hints of incentives, offering tax breaks and incentives for those who purchase energy efficient products and services or engage in green behavoir. So far, there are none. For example, how about offering restaurants who use local agricultural foods a break on this tax? Fleming is on the right track. Rather than just dismissing the HST as bad, he is offering some constructive criticism.

It's a bit pathetic that the entire issue seems to have been handed to Fleming, with the leader nowhere to be seen.

HST + pain = large voter turnout?

Thank you for this article Bill and the Tyee. It was, the other night, the focus of conversation, where we too made a list of goods & services to be affected. Rather than bringing back a progressive income tax and upping corporate taxation and increasing the rents received from resource extraction, Campbell and his buddy Harpo, stuck it to us all. The only upside is that perhaps the pain will motivate those who did not vote (52%) to pay much more attention to the political world. As for the NDP, where is CJ on this? Kudos to Adrian Dix for going after the Lieberals for their deceitful coverup of the shortfalls in the health sector. Citizens have a right to participate meaningfully in elections, one has to wonder at what point is that right negatived by the lies, concealment, deception, falsehoods, ( +email scandal, BC Rail scandal) uttered by the Party presently in power, my mind turns to the question, are there legal remedies, and if so, on what basis? This is not a repeat of the fudgit buget days, this "daze" over the eyes & minds of the voters is to my mind more serious, more willfull,an evil disregard and arrogant disrespect for the democracy and the rights of citizens. This Lieberal government deserves to be tossed out now!

VivianLea

The HST will reduce cumbersome accounting by half and businesses will have greater use of input tax credits. Ergo, more money for paying workers.

Non confidence Referendum

I am looking to the other parties, in B.C., to lead a non confidence referendum so that we can get rid of these people ...all of them...in the current government. Surely they can be charged with something...after all this...and thrown out of office?? Is that not possible??

Questions about the $1.6 billion

Bill T. says, "Who else benefits? The B.C. Liberal government, which will get $1.6 billion from the Stephen Harper Conservative federal government to "implement" the HST -- money it can spend however it likes."
Is this $1.6 billion a bribe to implement the HST? It looks as though the tax is only being implemented because the province gets to use the $1.6 billion anyway it likes.
Couldn't the BC Liberals use the $1.6 billion to cover the costs of health care and education so they won't have to cut back on these essential services?
In his news conference, Adrian Dix slammed the Fraser Health Authority for their proposed health cuts. The head of Fraser Health says none of this is true. They are only for consideration. Since Dix was referring to leaked documents, it was said that all of this upsetting news would not have occurred if the documents remained secret. And that's the way Campbell likes it, keep the documents about service cuts secret and don't have any public discussion.
And that what the people who voted for the Libs or those who didn't vote supported. You remind me of the gullible voter in "Spare us the Gullible Voter." See next post.

Zephyrus

Who are you LUKE S ?

Small business doesn`t cumbersome accounting,not enough expense savings to pass on to consumers.....

And Z MAN--Guess what,remember Campbell raised the fee for small business to collect the PST,remember his last economic Voodoo session,well,The small businesses will get NOTHING FOR COLLECTING THIS TAX,,NOTHING,do you hear me NOTHING/ZERO/ZIP/NADA........

So now like the GST currently,the new HST business will get NOTHING to collect that tax!

So any TENEE WEENEEY LITTLE savings a business might have will be lost because they lose the fee to collect any taxes!
Hydro bills will not be reduced because of HST/cable bills will go up/internet/telephone/Hydro/none of those will have any savings to pass on/NOTHING.....

Alcan/Rio Tinto will alluminum go down/Oil n gas,will gas go down NO NO NO....

On Sunday on the Sean Leslie show, Colin Hansen was asked about funerals costs,Hansen answered..."Well if the funeral home replaces their carpet they won`t have to pay PST so they will pass on the savings" Give me a break,Campbell will ruin, finish the liberal party over this........ The public aren`t stupid,you can`t spin this one,no way,no how......

So I don`t care about this tax,I look forward to this tax,I will embrace this tax,yes it will hurt people,hurt the economy but it will.......

MEAN THE FINAL NAIL IN THE BC LIBERAL COFFIN

Forgot one,tax on tolls?This outrage hasn`t even started yet.

Cheers-Eyes Wide Open

It was a done deal!

And Harper and Campbell wanted no interference in implementing the tax as its hot days ahead before the Liberals have any explaining to do in the legislature. Nobody had a say at the moment but there could be a Federal fall election and as good as time as any to say good bye to dirty politics and dirty dealing.

Ready, Fire, Aim??

I don't agree (yet) that the NDP response is weak.

Like many voters, I'm tired of the usual "ready, fire, aim" approach taken by opposition parties. For an opposition to take the time to consult various stakeholder groups, get the facts straight, and formulate a practical alternative strategy speaks VOLUMES about the intelligence of the opposition.

Yes, it would be emotionally satisfying to see Carole James and her colleagues charge out with guns blazing, pointing out the dishonesty and hypocrisy underlying the HST decision, but with several years to go before the next election, I suspect it would be wasted effort. That sort of strategy only works in the days immediately preceeding an election.

No, I think it's far more effective for the NDP to do the groundwork, and the homework, on this issue - and then launch the assault later.

After all, it's not like any sort of protest campaign - no matter who organizes it - will divert the Campbell Clan from its course of action. The objective must be to defeat the BC Liberals in the next election ... not score useless points in the short term.

Where IS Carole?

As in where is Waldo in all of this? Climbing the Himilayan Mountains? Not a Peep.

To get rid of the consumer-costly HST, one might as well turn to the Ontario NDP and sign their anti-HST petition here:

http://ontariondp.com/home

If the HST will fail in Ontario then it will likely fail here in BC as well.

Once agin

Once again I will reiterate the need to learn acceptance for value so we can actually pay for our purchases rather than adding to the debt by paying with Canada Bank Note debt. Learn the Bills of Exchange Act and use it as it is meant for us to use.

river pe...

Would you like me to go just a little way back into the Tyee archive and refer you to all the NDP supporters that screamed so loudly when Harper cut the GST. Now, Campbell is blending the two sales taxes. What is the big deal? If there are any increases then it's the NDP supporters here that just a few months ago supported higher sales taxes! Don't you anymore want lots of yummy taxes for all the health-care, education and social services?

Tangler

How can a reaction to this issue after the Finance Ministers has been on radio and TV be anything remotely the "ready, fire, aim approach taken by opposition parties." That is an excuse. Presumable the opposition has a research department and a communications department that can quickly come up with a suitable response. If almost every call in to a talk show expresses the sentiment that this is additional costs and any saving at the front end will never translate into a saving at the consumer end, it does not take a rocket scientist to come up with a direct and pithy qoute for the media. A call demanding equal air time might be an idea. Then if they refuse you could draw attention to that refusal.

Does anyone even know where Carole is these days? is she out of cell phone range? If this was pre 1991 there would be hell to pay for this kind of stuff. People are outraged and by the time there is a reaction they will dispair and the moment is gone!

July 30 may be a very interesting meeting...

"“A different NDP would drop the bullying tactics so that our own elected members ... wouldn’t feel worried about stepping up and saying they disagree with what’s being done.”"

from
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/BC-Politics/2009/07/08/NDPReturnGrassroots/

Take back the British Columbia NDP Party
Start: Jul 30 2009 - 7:00pm
End: Jul 30 2009 - 9:00pm
Location(s)
Vancouver Aboriginal Friendship Centre
1607 E. Hastings St. (@ Woodland)
Vancouver
Canada
See map: Google Maps
This event is open to all groups and individuals who have had enough of the current B.C. NDP leadership and the direction they steering our party in. If you are interested in helping to re-build the BC NDP into a party that represents the interests of marginalized and working people, come share your ideas for making it happen.
The first meeting of the Take Back the Party campaign was a success but in order to carry this momentum forward, we need to decide how to organize ourselves and our future activities.

Matt D.
takebacktheparty [at] gmail.com

--
I am not really down with the wing of the party that says it has to only represent the marginalized and worker nor am I beholden to unions nor glorify the concept of "work" and yet I may be there because it must be done for all of us.

The previous election was so easy to win against an obvious out-of-touch, deceiving government and yet it never happened - it was an easy win and it was a blown, completely and utterly blown opportunity.

Wrong, Skywalker

To Skywalker:

"Presumable the opposition has a research department and a communications department that can quickly come up with a suitable response." -- And, given the complete lack of detail provided by government so far, that response would be what exactly? The usual, uninformed "fire and brimstone" speech? Criticism that is short on reason and long on rhetoric?

I can only assume that you don't have a background in communications strategy. Rule Number One: Never let your opponent lead you into a dark alley and mug you. And that's exactly what would happen if the NDP chose to start thumping the table before getting its facts in order.

"If almost every call in to a talk show expresses the sentiment that this is additional costs and any saving at the front end will never translate into a saving at the consumer end, it does not take a rocket scientist to come up with a direct and pithy qoute for the media."

I couldn't give a rat's as* about the callers to talk radio. Most of them have sub-par intellect, and their opinions are about as useful as those of a herd of dairy cows.

As for whether or not businesses will pass on the savings to customers ... have you heard any of the major business groups say their members will or won't? Of course not. So, what you're recommending is that the NDP set itself up for a smack in the face: Carole James gets on the radio, ranting and raving, only to be contradicted the same day by the BC Business Council? Who ends up looking stupid? Yep, the NDP.

Another old adage in the communications game ... hold your fire until you see the whites of their eyes.

"People are outraged and by the time there is a reaction they will dispair and the moment is gone!"

Wrong again. You are outraged, and those who hate the Liberals (no matter what) are outraged. But you don't matter, in terms of strategy. The people who matter are "weak" Liberal voters, and don't believe for a minute that THEY are outraged. Odds are, they are concerned and waiting to see more details.

Those weak Liberals will be completely turned off by an "outraged response" from the NDP ... but they might be swayed by a calm and logical response by the NDP.

And unless they CAN be swayed, the NDP can't win the next election. Period.

Dat's da facts Jack.

Grow Up People

"If you are interested in helping to re-build the BC NDP into a party that represents the interests of marginalized and working people, come share your ideas for making it happen."

Uh, no, thanks all the same. A party that represents the narrow interests of "marginalized and working people" will never form a government in BC. That much is completely obvious, and no amount of rallying, shouting and placard waving will change that simple fact. In fact, your simple-minded rallies are counter-productive.

The only way that "marginalized and working people" in BC will ever have their voices heard is to STOP tearing the NDP apart - and that is precisely what you're doing. You are working to make the NDP completely unappealing to the "great silent majority" (the average, middle class voter) and - in doing so - you are ensuring that the BC Liberals remain in power forever.

To have any hope for change, the "marginalized and working people" of this province will have to learn to compromise, as will the environmentalists. You will have to stop dreaming of Utopia, and take a more pragmatic position. If you don't, you are doomed to ongoing failure.

HST...

If it is the best thing for the economy, why didn't he make a big part of his campaign in May!?

Fault is with the legislation

All that has transpired since the BC Liberals have come to power is due to the actions and inactions of the Legislators who write and pass the bills: the BC Liberals. Credit for their actions can be given to BC Liberals, and their supporters - the people who vote for them. The governing MLAs give further direction to their underlings as to regulations that need to be written or changed.
We now have a third term of the Gordon Campbell government, and it seems no amount of "screaming from the rooftops" has been enough to convince voters not to choose Gordon and his people. As big business, we have the main stream media representing the needs of big business, and the main stream media has always given Gordon Campbell pretty much carte blanche. As vangaurds, perhaps the main stream media through their monopoly of the fourth estate, can be considered a bit more guilty than the electorate who more interested in watching hockey than the watching James quite politely, but none-the-less thoroughly, hammer Campbell in the debates.

It is not the NDPs fault that main stream media paints the NDP as innept tax and spenders. After-all, the mainstream is only doing what legislstion has allowed them to do. The fact that legislation more and more favours the main stream media is the fault, once again, of an electorate who hires federal and provincial law-makers who would favour the mainstream media, big business.

Fault is with the legislators and the electorate

It has been proven time and again, here at The Tyee, by journalists and commentors alike, that the BC Liberals have always had the best interests of Big Business at heart. Likewise, the BC NDP (even through economic downturns) have been better at managing the public purse for the good of the general public. The tax breaks the Liberals instituted to all while instituting much higher user fees for services was a transfer of taxes placed on the backs of working clas and middle class citizens. The carbon tax has been, and will continue to be worse for the average taxpayer than it is for the average rich person. This HST is no different. It is a transfer of taxes to lower class and middle class BC residents who make up 90% of the electorate. This shift in taxes primarily helps the owners and controllers of corporations. Those corporations need not be Canadian in origin.

I find it mildly amusing that anyone would blame this HST on the NDP. As citizens of this province, we are all to blame for allowing the BC-Liberals to have power. Remember too, that no matter what one thinks of James, the NDP is a party that has James as a leader, but she does not have a straggle-hold on its caucus. She is not a micromanager. I have heard that Gordon Campbell is her opposite, however. Gordon Campbell is in power, and it is my contention that he has micromanged the selling of this province out to big business since the day he first took office. Gordon Campbell and his bootlicks are the ones to whom anger needs to be directed. If someone voted for Campbell and feels agry about what he has done, then I suggest directing your anger towards him, not Carole James. If anyone doesn't like what has been done to him or her, then it is that person's responsibility to get out and change things. This is still a democracy; you have the freedom to talk to your friends and cohorts; you can advertise. You have the freedom to write your MLA, start your own newspaper or join some blogs. Just remember, the BC Liberals have lots of Big Business backers, they have a huge war chest. You must engage in grassroots politics if you want to be rid of them.

a little old lady

A slight elderly lady came in the Bakery today and asked if she paid cash, we could avoid the shocking new tax? Well I'm thinking about it.
lw

http://willcocks.blogspot.com/

Check this site for some interesting comments on this issue.

http://willcocks.blogspot.com/

Tangled

"A party that represents the narrow interests of "marginalized and working people" will never form a government in BC."

If we had such a party perhaps those very people would bother to vote?

What we have is a NDP party that tries to outdo the liberals in being everything to everybody.

HST: Good for Business, bad for Citizens

The HST, like all things involving money and taxation, is poorly understood. On purpose. When people understand how simple money and taxes operate, they would change them to benefit the greater good. It's that simple. But complexity is the perfect tool of monopolies and oligarchs, so that taxes APPEAR complex.

The HST is a case in point. Businesses love it, because it is modeled after the GST, which provides a REFUND for every dollar of tax paid to corporations. PST doesn't work this way, and as such is less regressive. Thus, businesses have always hated the PST.

PST earns more money for the Province. So responsible administrations prefer it over HST. But if you're interested in crashing the system, lowering revenues and helping out business, then bring in the HST. With a nice little $1.5 billion incentive to do so. It's called short term thinking aka the Campbell Government.

More top notch coverage from BC's best media!!

HST

Well lets see, we got everyone looking over here at the HST while we figure out how to get around an obstruction of justice charge. Our media friends will have this HST to flog the people with and won't bother reporting the content of the destroyed E-mails if we have to cough them up. Where's that hockey player when you need him.

True Social Democracy

The progressive social democracies of Nordic Europe have high VATs to pay for social services and the concurrent high standard of living.

Denmark - 25%
Sweden - 25%
Norway - 25%

All implemented by progresive social democratic parties for a social and just state.

I'm ashamed at posters here who pretend to espouse social democracy yet decry one of the fundamental tenets of same - a 25% VAT.

Or maybe most posters here are just Liberal shills and trolls?

Perhaps this is neither here nor there ...

... but how about including all tax, however high, in the sticker price so that we consumers will finally know up front the true price that we are paying? Makes comparison shopping a hell of a lot easier.

Powell River

Firstly the HST (VAT) should go from 13% to 25% like the Nordic progressive social democracies.

That will allow BC to have roughly another $5 billion a year in revenue.

BC will then have the funding to be able to eradicate poverty, homelessness and have the best health, education and social services in North America.

BC will then become a social democratic model for all of North America and for all to envy in a sea of capitalist bliss.

Are you a neo-con Stephen Harperite?

Campbell had surpluses

Campbell had surpluses,he had 4 years of a construction boom,commodity boom and what happened,homelessness tripled,highest child poverty in Canada for 6 straight years,cuts to legal aid,cuts to social housing,health care funding is still only 7% of GDP over the last 9 years,189 schools closed......
Rivers sold,wild salmon being slaughtered,Campbell had tons of money for years and every year living conditions have deteriorated in this province...........

Gordon Campbell doesn`t care about the people,he cares about 1% of the population,and in case you haven`t noticed,Campbell is a conservative,a Harper conservative,a Republican,they are all the same...........

And,these people,the people of the corporation has stolen,fleeced,conned all the money out of the systems,and guess what,the thieves who stole all the money,outsourced to slave labour countries,reneged on all their pensions are the ones crying for bail-outs......
@ years ago Campbell through legislation subsidized the Banks and big oil n gas to the tune of 400 million per year,even with record profits,Campbell`s doctrine,steal from the poor to give to the rich!

@ Zephyrus and others

You say:

Could you please explain why, under Campbell's leadership since 2001, there has not been a single opportunity to increase the minimum wage that Campbell didn't squander?

The suggestion that business will be paying workers more because of putative increase in input tax credits is unfounded on any empirical evidence.

In fact, there is an abundance of data to show that, when given tax reductions, the instincts of the business class is precisely the opposite.

On the other hand, there is an abundance of evidence available to show that the real earnings of actual working people have diminished in lockstep with the increase in after-tax profits of the companies you now naively expect to share the wealth.

Pardon me, but shouldn't readers and citizens, having been bitten more than once by this kind of fallacious reasoning, reject out of hand the suggestion that it will be different this time?

In my view it won't.

The only reason Hansen has been told by his controllers in the Premier's Office to take up Pee Wee's bribe of 1.6 Billion beans for harmonization is to avoid doing what he ought to do in order to deal with revenue shortfalls and rising costs - to wit, increase the taxes payable by his friends and supporters.

This is not rocket science. It is political manipulation 101. Sans the threat from the worsening economy there is NO WAY on earth that Campbell would be increasing taxes - the fact he is only willing to increase the level of a regressive consumption tax (which hits workers, the poor and the middle class) is hardly a surprise.

Others have suggested that a high VAT is the way to build social democracy. I have little problem with the argument that Scandinavia has handled its social welfare and equity issues better than the rest of the democratic world and that Vat plays a part in the prescription; however, to suggest that a high Vat, without a correspondingly thoroughgoing remake of the whole income tax system along the lines suggested by the Carter commission in the 1960s is, frankly, putting the cart before the horse and would, in this country, do nothing more than exacerbate the social, societal and equity issues that plague us now.

Imagine.

You have R/man (compromise with corporations or else) and Matt T. arguing for an even higher tax and they believe that is necessary to provide more services. Now if we were just prepared to pay that 25% then Gordon would use it all for more services like poverty, healthcare and education. Under Gordon Campbell?! Really? Do pigs fly?

This is not about who espouses social values, it's about a government's lack of integrity.

G West

"increase the level of a regressive consumption tax ". Remind me. You don't like this HST but you did support Stephen Harper's reduction in GST?

To Tyee moderators......

I apologize for insulting people,but,anyone who didn`t vote have no say,no right to complain about anything,I voted,I can complain..........

The new tax,we have no manufactoring in BC,our exports were never subject to PST,our imports had PST added at point of sale,small businesses don`t have huge accounting bills........
And,with over night delivery,internet,many :SERVICES: such as accounting and professional services, you can get them done in Alberta,there is now a 7% savings to have an Alberta firm to do this,Stelmach must be rolling over laughing......

Now we will have big industry(oil n gas and others) contributing NOTHING,their all owned by Alberta and foreign/American companies,the profits are offshore and loopholes abound....All BCers monthly bills and food will cost more and this WILL AFFECT Canadian/domestic air travel......
Big construction/small construction can flow through the HST but,the tax savings will all be lost and more because of the tax on labour.....

Towns on the Alberta border,well,I would imagine leases and business plans won`t be renewed or brought forward.......Internet business will take a massive hit and lose any competitive edge they once had.......
Tourism will take a huge hit,...........

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few" From Spock(wrath of khan)

But never has that statement meant more than refering to this tax......

And for those not paying any attention.....Catalyst and other big industries have refused to pay their municipal taxes,there is a law suit filed,this tax move will increase raw log exports,yes increase it,the Americans will now have a huge incentive to but American milled lumber,more outsourcing to slave labour countries.
There is no benefit to people or small business with this tax,our big BC industry is foreign owned.
Anyways,bring on the tax,tax schemes are the death of all political parties,this will finish the BC Liberals,new leader or not,so for me,it`s a small price to pay for gutting the BC Liberals.

Lastly,anyone who didn`t vote have no right to critcize,and that is directed to Michael T(The Progressive BCer)

To my knowledge

The only things I've agreed with Stephen Harper about were the elimination (half-heartedly) of Income Trusts and the fact he stopped the sale of MacDonald Detweiler...happy is keeping track though and I'm sure he'll let me know if I spoke approvingly of anything else Stephen Harper has done...

I don't believe I've ever entered an opinion about his meaningless reduction in the GST..

However, as seems to be the wont of certain folks around here, there is a tendency for some to lift incomplete quotations from a longer post and use them out of context.

rebellions of 1837-38

One of the chief causes of the rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada were because people wished to have responsible government. In the last election, we had few elligible voters voting while our BC Liberals made big promises, specificly: not to be over budget more than 458 billion dollars, not to touch health care nor education, and not to implement HST. We find less than 2.5 months after that election that those are to be broken. By golly, with only 24% of the eligible voters voting for the BC Liberals, I'd say we have taxation without representation.

We need a new form of government, and the STV is not it. The STV has not reached the hearts and imaginations of the voters as the way to go.

We are being terribly wronged by our system and we need it fixed. Otherwise, it's more of the tax and spend BC Liberals taking gobs more money out of the provincial coffers (citizen's pockets) and resources for future generations for pie in the sky dreams: subways and skytrains (when trollys are more practical); Sea to Sky highway expansion (when an improved passenger rail service was all that was ever needed); bridges to nowhere; the non-green Gateway expansion for increased truck traffic; Convention Centre over-runs; Olympics over-runs; BC Ferries reducing services and costing more; lowest minimum wage in the most expensive place to live. Yep, the tax and spend BC Liberals and their corporate buddies are addicted to cashing in on the goods and cheap labour; they've been selling the farm to the company store (headquarted in the USA). With the HST, we move backward. Most of us are now nothing more than wage slave colonists. As soon as we take out a mortgage, we are an indentured servants. With this HST, indentured servants are one step closer to being a homeless paupers.

Read Between The Lines

This is an editorial from the Prince George Citizen. I posted it in another story but just in case you missed it, here it is.

Read Between The Lines Tuesday, 28 July 2009

Time to chuck another shoe at Gordon (Bloody) Campbell.
B.C’s Voldemort of a premier is doing his level best to strangle every nickel and dime he can from the province’s social services just to hold up the lie of his mythical deficit. He’s not quite selling the family silver but he’s kicking one of his golden goals into the gutter.
In what appears to be the latest in a slew of scurrilous acts - the HST, B.C. Rail e-mails in legal limbo, kicking the crutch out of from under the health care system - he now appears to be discarding one of his most cherished ideals: his wish to be the premier of the most literate jurisdiction in Canada.
Really. How does cutting libraries serve that interest, Lord Voldemort?
Now his courtiers would tell you that it’s only a game of silly buggers. Libraries haven’t gotten their current year’s funding, it’s been bogged down in the maelstrom of “today’s economy.”
But the reality is $14M-$17M worth of library funding is now in jeopardy. Libraries in B.C. have done the work - Campbell, Victoria, is holding that money back.
But it’s not just being tightfisted with dollars and cents - it’s squeezing the heartstrings of co-operation that stretches from the municipal to the provincial level. Promises between parties have been made and are now being broken.
And, for a province that’s trying to become a knowledge economy, shuttering libraries is awfully stupid.
Campbell’s cuts are destructive and unnecessarily malicious. With more people in B.C. than ever looking for answers to everything from "How do I find work?" to "Where do I go from here?", Campbell is glueing the pages shut on a critical public resource.
Are you looking for people to beg, Mr. Campbell? Do you really want to hear people say, “Please, Mr. Premier, can we read a little more?”

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20090728204909/opinion/editorials/read-between-the-lines.html

If the BC Lieberals..

had been honest about the HST and the real budget deficit during the election campaign they would have lost. We have no real democracy in BC. The Lieberals say one thing when they want our support, and then do whatever the hell they want to after. I have to get out of here. They are making my blood pressure rise too high.

Bill Tieleman returns to HST discussion

I want to make clear a couple of points that have been raised in this debate - Matt T says he's "ashamed" of posters who "espouse social democracy" while denouncing the HST, pointing out that Scandinavian social democratic governments have much higher Value Added Tax or VATs.

The BC HST will not add a penny, not a krona, to provincial coffers for social programs. As Premier Campbell and Finance Minister Hansen have made clear, this HST is "revenue neutral" for the province - they will not gain any additional income from the HST.

Who will gain is big business, as I've explained.

So Matt T, don't confuse yourself - this is no progressive VAT.

Secondly, RealisticMan asks some posters if they supported Stephen Harper's cuts to the GST. I won't answer for them but I certainly did agree with cutting the GST, as it is clearly, unquestionably a regressive tax.

The appropriate way to tax citizens is through a progressive income tax, not through any sales tax that disproportionately hurts lower and middle income earners.

Why some folks, including some "progressive" economists don't understand this basic fact is beyone me but just use your common sense to figure it out.

Meanwhile - my Facebook protest group NO BC HST already has more than 5,000 people who have signed up - if you agree that this is an unfair and outrageous tax, please spread the word!

Remember Tax Freedom Day

If you take the Fraser Institutes' calculation, even with a grain of salt, they say Tax Freedom Day is June 6th. It is probably much later but they gotta make the liberals look good. That means out total tax bill is getting pretty close to 50 % don't you think? Matt T better look in the mirror before he criticizes Scandinavian countries. So Fiat lux is correct. Cost can't be cut, only transferred and that presents a pretty scary scenario with the liberal fascists in Victoria.

So Bill carry on, you're doing fine even if I disagreed on your stand on the "coalition".