By the way

My name is too long,it`s .....

Powell river persuader

But you can call me trouble,persistance,lie detector,or you can call me for help.

And I can truly call some of you friends.

Sorry Luke/Wilf,you didn`t make the cut!

Point Robert's.....................

..............My wife just came back from filling the family chariot at the "Point".

Gas CAD $0.82 a litre.

Ah but there is more.

Store closing specials.

Milk 3.7 litre jug CAD $2.99
Tillich Ice cream 1.66 L. CAD $2.99
Tillich Cheese 2 lb. CAD $5.99
6 chicken thighs CAD $1.99

Carbon/Gas Tax is just not about gas boys and girls it's about the economy!

@Grumpy

Milk 2.99 per gallon

Ice cream 2.99 for 1.66 litres

2lbs of cheese 5.99

Not paying the carbon tax

PRICELESS

So.......

4 more years, unless the BC Rail trial finally concludes (joke justice!)!

Bill. Bill. Please stop

Bill. Bill. Please stop already. You are making an ass of yourself.

Moot Point, anyway

This is all a moot point anyway. The carbon tax is here to stay. There was an election fought on it and the NDP lost. We will have said tax until at least 2013 and if the NDP get elected in 2013 (and that remains a big "if") I doubt they would change a thing because the revenue stream would be too firmly established. Besides, they would take an even bigger lambasting from the greenies than they did last time.

Bill will soon enough receive orders from his masters to back off on the issue. He knows what side his bread is buttered on and he is not about to bite the hand that feeds him.

Wilf

Unlike you Bill writes it as he sees it; not like you. I would rather hear more from Bill than from you any day of the week. Nothing you write is an original thought or analysis. If the issue is dead, then why do you constantly respond proving that you are still sensitive around the issue. The Campbell "Carbon Tax" was a farce from the beginning. Everyone but a few elite environmentalists know it. It will come back to haunt Campbell when the public starts getting an accounting of its effectiveness in doing what was promised.

Oh and LOL just to make you feel at home.

2013

"The Campbell "Carbon Tax" was a farce from the beginning."

Great, you have you chance in 2013. Until now, take the Climate Action grant that came in the mail.

Who Counts Around Here!

This is such an over done topic obviously because it counts to the people who have to pay at the pumps in more ways than one.
As the Feds aren't crying as they add their GST to the added Carbon Tax + PST.
Do the agencies count who backed the Premier on his revenue grab? As the carbon tax has doubled and so has the GST during a time when the economy is already a good indicator of continued reduced consumption. Yet we continue to pack in immigrants while there is no room on the buses. And that is just a indication of strechted services and resources and polution of course.
I say vote on it as it shouldn't be about the party but rather the people.
Do the people of British Columbia need and want a carbon tax?
As many a business crumbles under the highest energy taxes and highest cost of doing business while unemployment continues to climb. And inferior goods are prominent do to loss or regulation. Along with the added costs do to added taxes is about to cripple your already struggling public services and economy as Government keeps the new ambulances for the Olympics.

And the Wealthy?

They aren't supporting the Tax. What the Wealthy are supporting is the Liberals and the fact they will not have to pay the same Taxes the rest of British Columbians are forced to pay all thanks to the Campbell's rule of thumb, skip the bum. While most British Columbians end up supporting CEO's very rich live style they could least afford.

Your wrong Wilfurd

Families of 4 don`t get 400.00$--If the income(family income)is over 30K you get nothing,everyone got a 100$ bribe when it came in.
And as usual furd,your not counting heating oil/propane/natural gas and the cost of goods that have had the carbon tax added to them,the cost of shipping,trucking,how many litres a year to fill ones home furnace oil tank,500/600/800 litres a year,you better go back to school,this time pay attention.

Tax Grab?

Have a look at the above link. You would have to be buying one heck of a lot of carbon to make up for the rebate. As for GST on the carbon tax, it would amount to like $3.00 per year at 2000 litres of consumption per year. Even that is a high number. I used less than 1000 litres last year.

Want to save the cabon tax back? Well, there is an easy solution. Don't drive one day a week. I don't drive on Sunday for example. That alone would reduce your 2000 litres by 140 litres and at $1.08 per litre save you $145.60. You would be ahead $82.20 and still collect the Climate Action Tax Credit if your family income were below $35,700. For a married couple with a family of four that credit amounts to $100 for each adult, and $30 for each dependent forr a total of $230. So in fact, a low income family, using the 2000 litre figure again, the net gain is $166.50. If you drive one day a week less that goes up to a savings of $312.20. So you are all blowing smoke.

Governments love income tax hikes. They can tweak an extra percent and most people would never notice the $20 a payday. That is regressive.

Powell River....

You would have to be buying a heck of a lot of carbon to have a 3.17 cent per litre cost you more than a family of four collecting a rebate of $260 a year. As for the argument that it is passed a long to the consumer, you are again blowing smoke because gasoline a year ago was $1.47 a litre and today it is $1.08, a 40% savings over a year ago.

Blowing smoke you. Like I said, had the NDP introduced it, you would all be saving the planet. And if you don't like it, don't pay. For example, I don't pay alcohol or tobacco taxes. I am money ahead on the carbon tax because I have a small car and don't drive it much. Put on a sweater. Don't drive one day a week.

Wilfurd

With those thick pop bottle eye glasses and the 4 pillows so you can see over the steering wheel,I wouldn`t drive either!

Matters not,Campbell will put more and more exemptions to the carbon tax to the point of being the laughing stock of Canada,and I suspect,when Campbell resigns in march 2010--The new interim leader will squash the carbon tax.

That's a lot!

Wow, $47, that's a lot. Or you could inflate your tires. Or even better, not drive one day a week.

"Matters not,Campbell will put more and more exemptions to the carbon tax to the point of being the laughing stock of Canada,and I suspect,when Campbell resigns in march 2010--The new interim leader will squash the carbon tax."

REALLY blowing smoke. To the point of fantasy.

Wilfred is full of hot air?

Which I believe some propose is the new friendly environmential way to go. Only I don't think they meant this type. Unless you are one of the struggling low income families who don't make enough to worry about taxes and the $25 dollars they receive from Government after the fact its a real hardship so speak for yourself, Wilf. As they struggle to eat from pay cheque to pay cheque as the high cost of rents and utilities are a killer along with food. So stuff it Willy and go for a hot air ballon ride as you living in the clouds. So speak for yourself as the cost of food and such has gone up so much its taking a big tole. As last year many families struggled with the increased utilitiy bills because of the increased cold weather and that isn't no lie.

Check your facts.....

"and the $25 dollars they receive from Government"

Check your facts. A family of four receives $260 year, on top of CCTB, GST credit, Child Care Subsidy, et al.

You are all blowing smoke out of your butts. If the NDP had done this tax, you would be saving the environment and the world.

But it doesn't matter. You lost the election. You can revisit the matter in 2013. It is all sour grapes.

I agree....

"He won the last election by default due to the horrid campaign the NDP ran..."

Actually, I agree with you Dan, but I doubt many of your fellow NDPers can admit that. They would rather blame everybody but themselves.

They say if you don't have 50% you have nothing?

So lets see whats in store for the Liberals in the following months to the up and coming 2010. And lets not forget the Liberals have destroying admissible public records while the case is before the courts.
I'm betting he is a goner and the NDP is getting closer and closer to that realization.
But the part that's confusing to me Willie Nillie is why it matters what anyone thinks it dosen't to the Liberals.

Oh Willie!

You remember the energy rebates everybody got from Government for low income households for their increased energy bills? That was about $250 to $350 a year for many households. Where did that go especially when most families paid an additional $500 and up for increased heating bills. Funny how that disappeared and a family of 4 now gets to divided $160.00 amongst themselves for the year. As the first hundred is for the household. Now thats a joke since it works out to $10.00 a head for each child in the household for a payment period. While the disablied and elderly can count on their $25.00

What would we do without Wilfurd

Without Wilfurd,someone has to occupy the bottom rung of the ladder.

Because,well,I`m not the smartest person in the world,but after reading the written word of the Furd,I feel like a scholar,a mensa member......Ah but I digress.....

I must remember with all the toxins,chemicals in the food and water chain,autism and reading and learning disabilities are skyrocketing, perhaps he is Disabl.....I will give him the benefit of the doubt,could explain his repetition/Learn one thing but learn it well.

Whoever "they are"

They are not the government. Using your logic, the NDP cannot be the oppostion opposition because less than 21% of people support them. Pure rubbish. The government was legally and constitutionally elected.

"I'm betting he is a goner and the NDP is getting closer and closer to that realization."

Well, that will be seen in 2013. That is when the next election is. But I recall hearing the same thing since 2001. So far, it hasn't happened.

You arguments are absurd and partisan. Even The Garth, spinning his math as hard as he could, came up with a figure of $47 as the net cost to the poorest people when the carbon tax reaches its highest level of 7 cents a litre. Since carbon prices are down 40% this year, there has in fact been a windfall in energy prices.

"The NDP could have run the best campaign of any party in BC's history and the outcome might well have been the same. It might still not have received recognition from Canwest"

See my above mention about blaming everybody else? Get your party in order and go win an election.

"we should leave the government in peace for the duration."

Absolutely not. The NDP can try to be a better opposition than it was. People can protest and demonstrate as much as they want as long as their actions are non-violent and legal. If said demonstrators feel they are not being given their due in regards to their right to freedom of speech and assembly, they can seek redress in the courts.

But to restate things, in our political system, a government, no matter what party or whether I support it or not, is legally and constitutionally permitted to govern if it wins an election. If you feel said government has done something illegal, pursue it through law enforcement or the courts. Finally, if you are not happy with the system of government, contact your MP with the Constitutional amendment feel would provide redress for your dispute.

Really?

"Where did that go especially when most families paid an additional $500 for heating bills?"

Where do you get this figure? Given that the carbon tax has added about 4% to the cost of home heating, how could you possibly come up with the figure?

This figure is particularly absurd since the price of natural gas was 50% less in the winter of 2008-09 than it was in the previous winter and home heating oil 40% less.

Please provide evidence to support your claim. I think you cannot because you pulled it out of the ether.

Oh and Developers Cry?

And why do they cry? Because the city wants them to put in a socket into it if you know what I mean.
The mayor is big on the environment and believes the answer is in prepardness but not the province as it says no to electric outlets for cars saying who knows what the future holds. To much hazzle if you know what I mean as its not what you say its what you do. As developers say it will cost them, boo hoo! They don't care about the environment and neither do the Liberals.
And the only one who seems to really be prepared to make way for a better environment is the mayor. And the premier or so he says because of his commitment to further committment to destroying all that is precious and dear while burdening small business so much its unable to make the necessary changes at this time as its TAX IT, to ensure it doesn't work. As usually the costs that are cut can't be in the work, as how does that work? It dosen't and for every driver taken off the road Campbell's government has added another 100,000 to engage in traffic and pollution, count on it the developers are.

Chatter....

You have changed the direction of the thread. Where is your proof in your claim that the average home cost an extra $500 to heat when gas prices were 50% less than in the previous winter?

For that 4% to be $500, one would have be be spending $12,500 a month on heating. Is that what you spend? Assuming that one must heat seven months a year, that is an annual heating cost of $87,500. That is significantly higher then the Canadian average pre-tax income of $70,000.

How can families possibly spend $12,500 a month on heating? I spend $64 a month for my all electric townhouse. Admittedly, we wear sweaters in winter as the home is kept at 20'C to conserve energy. But that figure includes hot water, lights and cooking. Why do I spend $12,436 a month less than you do?

2009 breaks cold records in BC

Because of the high energy costs in the country struggling families would receive a rebate for these costs from Feds and Province. Well that has all but disappeared all the while adding the addtional burden of a carbon tax. Families pay record utilitily bills as they complain of added espense of hundreds of dollars because of the cold snap. All while being faced with the added burden of the carbon tax on necessary purchases like food and energy.
And whats BC hydro got for struggling families well a package worth about $60 which BC Hydro will receive a whopping $2400 from a provincal ministry for monitoring the program. Sound like you got a good deal?
I do believe the money would have done the families a whole lot more than another do nothing advertising campagin costing millions.

Liberal greenwashing

Campbell has been mainly greenwashing. If he was truly sincere about global warming, he would have rode an ass to see Arnold in California. With all due respect to the 4-legged variety, there might have been an identity problem.
it is a gas tax, not a carbon tax. It is only on petroleum fuel we consume and use in the province. It is not on fuel we mine and export nor is it on fuels we use when we travel outside the province such as Premier Campbell flying in a private jet to China for the Olympics. If it was a carbon tax, it would also include taxes on champagne, beer and pop as they all release carbon dioxide.
This gas tax does not include fuels we export. Campbell is promising we will export more so we will have more revenue and the economy will grow. Of course if that happens, then carbon dioxide emissions will increase. Does he care? Apparently not, as he is bragging how great this economic strategy is for the province. He doesn't seem to mind that he will produce much more GHG's with his policy.
And he is promising to increase the hi-way system in BC adding bridges in the lower mainland and twinning the hi-way to Prince George. This will help to increase traffic and govt revenues due to increases in gas revenues.
Carol James, on the other hand, said that yes you can have these fuels but you will have to pay a tax on them at their source so all pay. In effect she is expanding the penalty for using the gases and she is co-ordinating it with her Green bonds and a plan to reduce GHG emission and other airborne pollutants with a cap and trade. She had a plan.
Campbell and the BC Liberals have no plan.

And that is $2400 per household

Willie for a package worth $60 to help low income households with trying to bring down their heating bills. As most already find the places they live in less than weather proof. And of course the plastic cover that barely hangs over a small window has got to keep the draft out, right? As BC hydro jumps in their carbon fuming cars to help themselves out to the balance of the $2,400. That is right the plastic in the little kit dosen't even cover a full size window for $2,400 tells me its all a JOKE!
All the while a little tool that will do the job for about $30 is left of the equation as thousands of dollars go into BC Hydro account on the behalf of struggling families.

Chatter

Tell me how, given that Hydro rates are up 7% and that gas is down 50% and oil down 40%, how can you possibly arrive that this figure? You have already claimed this comes to $500 a month. But using your figures, that would mean a heating cost of $12,500 a month. If one was heating by gas, again using your figures, that would have cost $25,000 a month in 2007-08.

You are now banding about a figure of $2400. I have no idea what that number means or where you got it. In fact, having reread your post several time, I cannot make sense of it. Please clarify and quote links to support your claims, as I have.

Finally, the tax credit is $100 per adult and $30 per dependent.

Bill Tieleman fuels up

While I'm deeply touched by the concern my friends Wilfred Laurier and Wayfarer have for my financial and political well-being, I hate to let them know that I opposed the BC Liberal gas tax from the day it was introduced in the February 2008 budget.

You could look that up.

The BC NDP came to the same conclusion several months later. Their current position of apparent grudging acceptance and a hope that it can be "improved" is their business - I remain convinced it is both unfair and ineffective and will continue to write about it as I see fit.

With 65% of British Columbians opposed to the latest increase and only 30% in favour, and with 47% "strongly opposed" versus 11% "strongly in favour" I feel pretty darn comfortable with both my position and my continuing advocacy against the gas tax.

Maybe that's why I'm getting advice to do exactly the opposite!

North of Hope

You make very good points. They would be very valid in any election campaign and I would suggest that your party voice them during the 2013 election campaign. Until then, however, we are going to pay a carbon tax. Fortunately, gasoline is now 40% cheaper when the carbon tax was introduced and the impact has been negated about tenfold.

What a surprise!

"I opposed the BC Liberal gas tax from the day it was introduced in the February 2008 budget."

What a surprise, Bill. But you oppose everything the BC Liberals do, on general principle because you have hitched you wagon to the fortunes of your former employer.

"The BC NDP came to the same conclusion several months later."

Indeed they did. They have now flip flopped on it and I suspect you will, soon, too, because your party butters your bread.

Polls, polls, polls, Bill. Nobody is going to be in favour of any new tax. It is a silly argument. What if you did a poll on the recent increase in the price of alcohol? How many people would (other than myself) oppose that?

Correction

I would strongly favour any increase in the tax on alcohol, or tobacco for that matter, as I use neither.

Wilf

you now conjure up visions of a fish flopping around on dry land. LOL!

North of Hope

I agree with you when you say Carole James has a plan for the environment that is solid. I also believe she is flexible when need be.
However saying that I don't agree our Liberal Government is without a plan. I just don't think the residents of BC are in it is all.
But Campbell has a plan and there is no doubt about it as he has stayed fixated on the Olympic Gold therein.

The NDP

Didn`t flip flop,more spin,have the NDP endorsed? NOT

The tax will be killed next year by De jong,there is no point in fighting Campbell on the carbon tax,the revolt is coming from within,from the board of trade,chambers of commerce and big industry.
What do you call a 495 million dollar deficit turning into a 2.6 billion dollar deficit? A flip flop,or a blatant lie?

Oh,guess what Wilfurd,today the province announced over 200 lay-offs in the minstry of forests and range and...

it gets better,the already slashed ministry of the enviroment is laying off 30 to 40 employees,as their budget has been slashed by a futher 12%.

The great enviromentalist? Sleep well Suzuki/Berman/Pembina...We don`t need forest rangers,leave the bear hunters alone,no need to have random enviromental checks at fish farms or run of river private power operations,we wouldn`t want to catch violaters.
And I almost forget,they are downgrading the emergency ward in Mission,oh my! What was that other election lie from Campbell "We will protect health care"

Funny- 237 PAB workers spinning the message for 30 million a year,no cuts there eh?
Yes,the drums of war are beating WITHIN the Liberal party,and with Campbell`s cuts there will still be a 2.6 billion dollar deficit!

Quarry is Back!

"The tax will be killed next year by De jong,there is no point in fighting Campbell on the carbon tax,the revolt is coming from within"

So, having been banned more times than I can count, Quarry is back. No one else lives in such a fantasy world. And your prognostications have proven so correct in the past, Quarry.

wilf

He must work for the party. Nobody else would have so much time.

But always good to hear the view from the Dark Side. It's target practice for the good guys.

A report drafted by a

A report drafted by a standing committee within the NDP called for, and the convention of 2007 voted unanimously in favor of, a carbon tax. You can almost hear the indignant righteousness of politically correct applause. When the Libs adopted it as policy ... or should I say stole their thunder and that of the Greens ... it was airbrushed into "carbon pricing" http://www.buildingsustainablebc.ca/node/11

Marvelous

I haven't much time for

I haven't much time for Tieleman either. His NO-STV campaign killed ANY further attempt to change the electoral system for a very long time. He knew that the only chance for an NDP majority government in this province is under the current system or a split on the Right.

morechatter

morechatter said, "But Campbell has a plan and there is no doubt about it as he has stayed fixated on the Olympic Gold therein." You are correct, Campbell has a plan but it is not to save the environment nor is it to make BC sustainable.
His plan is to sell out this province as quickly as he can and destroy our social infrastructure. Examples: BCRail, oil and gas, destruction of BC Hydro, privatize health care, destroy public education by under funding, etc.

Wilfred Laurier

Wilfred Laurier says, " gasoline is now 40% cheaper when the carbon tax was introduced and the impact has been negated about tenfold."
Gas is about $1.10/L so that would mean that gas was going for $1.83/l when the carbon (really the gas) tax was introduced.
And what impact are you referring to that was decreased by tenfold?

pithert, on the other hand...

...maybe it was the pro STV's insistence on a second run of the the same old, same old that killed any chance. People get suspicious of someone trying to get a second vote cause the first one failed. Maybe the pro STV should have come up with something else like STV with all single member ridings. But hey, then you might not have been able to pool 4 % of a large region into a possible one seat fro a fringe party.

Now your mad at Tielmann because e exercised his right to free speech? You really need to get over it.

One more time

The Campbell Tax is not a Carbon Tax - it's a money laundry. It siphons money from those who can least afford it into the pockets of those who least need it.

In doing so it ignores two of the biggest polluters and GHG producers - cruise ships and airlines. In addition, it is administratively cumbersome and costly while not converting one truck to natural gas, getting one commuter out of his/her car and onto public transit, or converting one house to solar heat.

Ask yourselves why.

thoughts

The rural urban and Lower Mainland and North pattern makes sense to me. I imagine all those people in the North with no other means to get around other then cars must be upset. Meanwhile Vancouverites like myself have multiple options to movement. However this all misses the point of the tax which is to punish people for the over indulgence of green house gases as produced by cars. The tax should be hire to force more people to use alternatives. There's a huge boom in electric cars, and public transit. The oppose people need to wake up to the new realities of global warming, and need to pay for the carbon they emit. Having said that if the province doesn't use the money for creating better public transport over the next few years than this will start to look like a total money grab, not an effective response to demanding times.

G West

Like you said one more time.

The Scampbell Tax is not a Carbon Tax - its a Cash Grab as BC was in a recession busily acquiring a huge deficit which Liberal's failed to mention at the time. The environmential protection is not measureable and has failed to convert one truck, car, boat, train, van to natural gas, or converting one house to solar heat.
BC is also behind the others provinces when it comes to other environmential practices.

It is more like a hit list. As there goes another poor household down for the count. How many households have to suffer so the rich can continue on with their high polluting life styles? Apparently around here the theory is if we can just get the rest of the population to live in the dark the big polluters don't have to concern themselves with the environment.

And Bill Teilman never say die, its a subject that needs to be undone.

thoughts!

You are talking about punishing people financially for their use of energy? And please tell me how having those with out a carbon foot print go with out life necessities. While big polluters go untouched as they right off the pollution they emit.
It like giving a poor man the same time for stealing a loaf of bread that you would give a rich man.

Where is the sense in that.
This way the polluters continue to get behind the wheel of their monster trucks while non polluters pay the price.

Figures, Chatter

Chatter, you still have not told me how the average home's heating costs increased by $500 a month since the carbon tax was enacted. Please supply proof.

As for the carbon tax being undone, you will have your say in 2013, even if your party has removed said opposition from it's platform.

"its a Cash Grab"

Yes, enormous. Even when the carbon tax reaches it's full seven cents a litre, The Garth has come to a net cost of $47 per family of four. That is huge, the equivalent of 24 beer or 40 litres of gasoline.

"A report drafted by a standing committee within the NDP called for, and the convention of 2007 voted unanimously in favor of, a carbon tax."

Very true and then Carole flip flopped when she saw a political opportunity. She has since flip flopped again. Great leadership.

And you wonder why you languish in opposition.....

Its a Write Off!

I meant as business and its Associates along with government have the public pick up the tab for gasing it up. As its make mine a double while another government offical gets caught tanked behind the wheel. The public picks up the tab for the booze and the gas as its business as usual as its all a write off including the useless Carbon Tax.

bpither1

You are absolutely correct in that the NDP standing committee and delegates to the 2007 NDP convention voted unanimously in favor of a carbon tax.

"apply carbon pricing to motivate the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions by ensuring that prices of fossil fuels reflect the environmental and social costs of their production and use, while building in “just transition” measures to minimize impacts on low-income households;

And that sounds exactly like the current carbon tax.

"Tax shifting measures"

And that sounds like Dion's Green Shift.

With the NDP now supporting the carbon tax, they are finally on side with the unanimous resolution passed at the 2007 convention.

@Matt T

Guess you misinterpreted James's statement too.

She never said she supported the Campbell Tax, which is not a carbon tax but a money laundry, she simply said the CEO won the election and the Campbell Tax is (for the next four years) going to be with us.

She's now commited to changing the Campbell Tax into a real Carbon Tax and ending the money laundry.

I wish her luck - but it's not very likely to happen.

Gordon Campbell isn't really 'into' discussion, cooperation and conciliation you know.

In fact, he's not even willing to meet to discuss the subject of child poverty - you can look it up.
http://willcocks.blogspot.com/2009/07/child-poverty-meeting-rejected-by.html

Good luck with the project of changing the phony Campbell Tax into a real carbon tax that does something besides laundering money to the CEO's friends from the poor and working poor of this province.

Me, I'm not so naive.

Wilf! Stuck on Stupid

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080903/BC_hydro_critics_080903/20080903/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Rate increases to boot to help out struggling families in Canada stay cold.

BC Hydro usage is hitting new highs?

http://www.ippbc.com/EN/2009_news_flashes/bch_hydro_usage_is_hitting_new_highs_on_vancouver_island./

Chatter...

You are throwing red herrings. Where is your proof that home heating bills have increased by $500 a month. I know mine hasn't. My equal payment plan was $3.00 a month higher in 2009 than 2008. How do you account for the other $497?

Your links to the increased Hydro rates is out of date. If you look at your Hydro bill for last month, you will see that the BC Utilities Commission rolled back much of the rate hike and the two tier system is gone. You in fact received a rebate last month. Have a look at it. We, by the way, pay some of the lowest electric rates in the world.

Vancouver Island is seeing a steady increase in population yet the amount of power being produced or imported to the island has remained the same since the Cheekye-Dunsmuir 500 kv line was put into service in in 1993. There is a need for more power on the island.

Wilf get your facts right?

How much you will receive depends upon the size of your family and your adjusted family net income. The maximum annual payment amount for 2009 is $105 per adult and $31.50 per child for the YEAR.

If you are a single individual with no children, the credit will be reduced by 2% of your adjusted net income over $30,600. If you are a family, the credit will be reduced by 2% of your adjusted family net income over $35,700.

One quarter of your annual entitlement will be issued every three months and integrated along with your GST Credit payment. For example, if you are a single individual with an income under $30,600 with no children, an additional $26.25 ($105/4 quarterly payments) will be included with your GST Credit payment.

Did you get that Wilf the payments are set up quarterly over the year and dosen't even come close to covering the hardships placed on those who were already faced by crisis situations because of this governments mishandling of the economy.

So do your math there Wilf as a $100 for a family household and a $160 divided by 4 and then divided by four works out to barely $10 a head during a 3 month pay period. While the disabled and elderly rejoice over getting back a few cents on the high costs of goods, services and rent. Which is no way comparative to the $25 they get for living well below the poverty line every three months. This money is considered income by government as even the GST is added into the equation and the poor receive no relief at all as they are forced to live off it during five week months.

And BC hydro power smart program for low inocme received 17 million last year from government at approximately $2000 a household. The kits carried enough plastic to cover a couple small windows and a few other incidentals. The Power Smart Packaging and Marketing cost a bundle and also cost the environment big time. As the balance of the $2000 was for BC hydro agents getting in their cars and reading meters.

It kinda reminds me of Klein and his merry band of crooks as they would take money alloted for the elderly, disabled and young and send off millions of dollars to Health Services paying off Health Services they weren't responsbile for. Why? It was a time when money allotted for Ministries stayed there so they worked it taking it off the backs of the poor.

How about Canada Wilf?

We don't have the cheapest rates for Hydro in Canada.
And the provinces BC is compared to in Canada receive help with their heating bills from government agencies. There is none of that here as if a family is facing disconnection will have to pay it back off their next cheque. You know how they help the struggling unemployed lose their apts by taking all their EI cheques. Its another story the Tyee is dong but fits in well with this one.

Take the Bus?

http://www.straight.com/article-233871/stephanie-ryan-translink-cash-crisis-could-be-bad-news-surrey

There are real serious problems with transit. There are not enough buses and no CASH and its not restricted to Surrey either as their are problems everywhere as a 5 miniute wait can turn into an hour. Despite continued growth do to increased immigration and carbon tax transit fails to respond by adding long overdue buses.

And its looks like we will not have to wait years down the road to see how sincere government is. Because they have already screwed up so badly as most taking the bus are finding it a real hardship as buses are late or filled to capacity. How does that work for the working stiff well it isn't and it isn't working for their employeers either as more and more people find themselves late for work with no hope for change. Just the promise of added fares as many find their way back to their reliable vehicles as they end up taking the car to work.

Anyways what more is there to say because unlike Wilf I know when I'm being taken for a "Carbon Fuming Ride?"

Chatter

You still have not told me how the average house holder has seen their heating bill increase by $500 in 2009 vs 2008.

Electricity has increased 7% since 2007. Gas and home heating oil are much cheaper in the same period. The carbon tax on these commodities has been more than negated by the lower world price and the climate tax credit. Since energy prices are much lower for every commodity except electricity, your argument is baseless.

My annual bill, for example, has gone up $36. My gasoline bill for the first six months of 2008 was $592. For the same period of 2009 it was $445. The number of litres did drop slightly (by 26 litres) in 2009 as I drove less.

"We don't have the cheapest rates for Hydro in Canada."

Manitoba and Quebec are the cheapest. We are number 3. Compared to what the rest of the world pays, we are getting a deal. Six cents a kw/h is a low rate.

Here is a comparison by country:

http://www.neb-one.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rnrgynfmtn/prcng/lctrct/frqntlskdqstn-eng.html

But if you are not happy with the policies of the present government, you can vote against it again in 2013. That is your democratic right. Until then, they have the legal and constitutional right to govern.

[EDITED. -MODERATOR.]

You live in a puny leaky bob rennie condo,I live in a house,my neighbors live in a house,but...
Because of 2 tier hydro rates,I`ve checked my hydro bills,I am using less hydro this year against last year but my bill is 35% more,..
Because of the cash grab 2 tier hydro I am paying a premium rate for 20 days of each month,natural gas last year went up 40%,even though the priced has tumbled(making campbell lose sleep every night)the price was only lowered back down by 9%,but not on the sunshine coast or the island.
My hydro bill every 2 months is 375.00$..And that is for a small 3 bedroom home with a couple of outdoor safety lights(at night)
My bill in 2001 was 170.00$ every 2 months,

[EDITED.]the carbon tax is on bread,on underwear,on natural gas,food,water,everything,every business,every company passes the carbon tax on to the end user!
Could I reduce my energy use,yea,I could shut of the radio,turn off the computer,I could spend 80.000.00$ to replace every window,open up every wall,replace the roof,doors but....
I would have to live to be 140 years old to re-coup my cost and...
It is a well known fact (a new well known fact)that living in a air tight,sealed up,stagnent home is detremental to one`s health...
especially the newer condos and townhomes,there are literaly thousands of toxins in the construction of these Bob Rennie specials,glues,caulkings,chemicals,and these chemicals in the plastics,the paint,everything leach into the homes,especialy the homes that sealed up tighter than a drum......
A cheaper hydro bill,you bet,but increases in cancers,autism,diseases,alzheimers,asthma,etc etc.....and I almost forgot,all the black mould that got into your walls from the outside,trapped, lurking between you and the toxic Chinese drywall.
And you live in one of those don`t you Wilfurd?.....

[EDITED. -MODERATOR.]

Axe the Tax

Bill, you are confusing a political tactic, Axe the Tax, with opposition to the carbon tax.

Axe the Tax was a very poor tactic as it made the opposition to the carbon tax the centre piece of the campaign which forced many people who care about the environment to not support the NDP. Even worse, the slogan, which I suspect you came up with, sounds like something straight from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. As such, it is not going to resonate with many NDP supporters. Those that it does resonate with aren't going to vote NDP no matter what.

What would be interesting is to do a poll on a fixed carbon tax where the revenue goes towards transit or other solutions that enable people to lower their emissions and avoid paying the tax. I expect that would poll higher especially among likely NDP supporters.

Anyway, give it up Bill. Admit you made a mistake and move on.

The bottom line is

The Campbell Tax is not a Carbon Tax - it's a money laundry. It siphons money from those who can least afford it into the pockets of those who least need it.

In doing so it ignores two of the biggest polluters and GHG producers - cruise ships and airlines. In addition, it is administratively cumbersome and costly while not converting one truck to natural gas, getting one commuter out of his/her car and onto public transit, or converting one house to solar heat.

Ask yourselves why.

Election Tactics

I'm sure the 'Liberals' had ample internal polling to illustrate the urban/rural split over the carbon tax. They just looked at the numbers and figured they could tough it out. A good call on their part, but the hapless NDP policy folks decided to pin their game on what the Libs determined was a weak issue.

Face it, the NDP ran an ill-conceived and poorly-focused campaign and lost support among previously committed voters.

dave49

Not sure your last para holds water - the NDP percentage of the popular vote actually went up more than the Campbell party (which incrased by only .03%).

In 2009 the Campbell party received 45.83% (45.80 in 2005) while the NDP got 42.14% compared with 41.52% in 2005.

I don't think anyone could call the Campbell campaign a stunning success based on those figures, do you?

Source: Elections BC

erratum

- that should be 'increased' in parentheses in para 1

G West

I was not intending to get into a debate over stats. I heard a number of anecdotal reports from friends who said NDP supporters they know stayed home and did not vote as a result of the unappealing election platform.

I think a lot of things played into the "Liberals" successful campaign. Having the Liberal Party of Canada national convention here just before the election helped Gordo & Co. When are the Federal Liberals going to acknowledge the BC party was hijacked by neo-cons?

The Suzuki factor over the carbon tax cannot be ignored. A friend lives in Suzuki's riding and attended the all-candidates meeting. Suzuki got up and made a big pitch for the carbon tax (and the Liberals). Neither the NDP nor the Green Party candidates had anything to say in response.

A former Suzuki Foundation employee said to me, "The David Suzuki foundation is the highest profile and best-funded environmental group in the country. It doesn't hurt that David's been a fixture on CBC television for almost 30 years.

Also, a recent conference concluded that it is impossible to determine if the carbon tax is having any real effect. Again, a clever and calculated policy from the Liberal back rooms. No one can prove it works, but no one can prove it does not work, especially when our carbon emission have reportedly risen since the carbon tax was introduced.

A Trendy Tax

A Carbon Tax is what the hip people were clamoring for. The citizens are always happy when their government listens to them and gives, or takes, what they want.

'Eco-guilt is a first-world luxury. It’s the new religion for urban populations which have lost their faith in Christianity. The IPCC report is their Bible. Al Gore and Lord Stern are their prophets.’

Ian Plimer’s Heaven And Earth: Global Warming — the Missing Science is published by Quartet. ✌

dave49

I don't think the carbon tax had much traction for the Campbell forces and I'm pretty well convinced that it is useless and unpopular with anyone who has half a brain.

I think it's impossible to elect the NDP with a woman as leader - this is a very misogynist place and a good many men would prefer a crook to a competent consensus builder.

I think that's the essential problem - that and a serious lack of money.

I think Suzuki has lost a great deal of support over his foolishness - I will certainly never send him another cheque and my friends (virtually all professionals and many of them women) will not do so again either.

When the Premier of this province refuses to meet with Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond to discuss child poverty we are in VERY bad shape.

I wasn't trying to make a big deal about the numbers - just to point out that they actually didn't support your thesis.

G - get off the Cruise ship already....

The toal amount of Domestic Marine and Aviation GHG is a spit in the bucket and would have no material effect on climate change if those activities stopped completely overnight.

Private and commercial road vehicles and residential and commercial buildings are the major cause.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/pdb/ghg/inventory_report/2005/2005summary_e.cfm

Maybe airplanes & cruise ships have high GHG per passenger, but reducing the aggregate total is not the answer we need.

Quarry....

"My hydro bill every 2 months is 375.00$..And that is for a small 3 bedroom home with a couple of outdoor safety lights(at night)
My bill in 2001 was 170.00$ every 2 months"

[EDITED. -MODERATOR.] Hydro rates have gone up 7% in the last nine years. That amounts to $26.25 per billing cycle. You are talking out of your butt as usual. No wonder your party cannot get eleced with likes of you hitched to it's wagon.

jwstewart

If the NDP had not flip-flopped on carbon taxes, The Garth would be their biggest supporter. It is all partisanship with him. He is against everything and for nothing.

Wilfturd.....

You are mentally challenged.

Current kilowatt hour cost is/as of april 2009..

Tier 1)5.91 cents

Tier 2)8.27 cents

In 2001 there WAS NO 2 TIER HYDRO RATE and the regular rate,the ONLY rate in 2001 per kilowatt hour was?.......

under 4 cents per kilowatt hour

Obvoiusly math isn`t your strong suit,or logic,or anything......

Your a 1 trick pony,you have one line,everyone here knows it.....

Your only line is--"wait until 2013"--Enjoy your toxic leaky condo-Ha HA

Climate change isn't a government problem...

It's a problem caused by the citizens, all those who live in houses, apartments, condos, and work in buildings. All thos who drive in cars, get goods shipped on trucks, trains, ships.

If WE lived our lives in a non-poluting manner then our civil servants would not need to make feeble attempts to control our polution.

jwstewart

Are you the naked cowboy,walking around in a loin cloth?

Or maybe you live off the land,eat raw veggies,salt cure your meat in the sun?

33% of all of Canada`s emissions comes from the tar sands,where do live?The campbell gas tax does not work,there is no argument,build cleaner technology and people will buy it.
So unless you live like a backwoods bushman or a sasquatch your nothing but a hypocrit!
You have internet,a home,you eat farmed food,drive or transit around,clothes on your back,your asswipe,your laundry.

May I suggest you write a letter to con man campbell and demand we stop selling/shipping millions of tonnes of coal to china.
Methane is 10 fold more harmful than co2-Do you realize how much methane gets passed as gas from livestock?
Life involves a carbon footprint/7 billion carbon users on earth,the earth can`t sustain that many people......

Even the once good enviromentalist David Suzuki,on one of his nature of things program stated....

"The earth can maybe sustain 90 million people on a forever basis if the live the lifestyle of the average Canadin"......

And he went on to say "And if we lived the life style of an average third world person the earth could sustain about 4 billion people on a forever basis"

So anyway you slice it,the earth,the people are destined to burn the world up,all goverments strive for growth,Canada`s wants immigration,Scampbell talks about a million more people jamming into metro Vancouver....
India/China/Pakastan..They all want what you have jwstewart,are you telling them NO,are you god?
People pollute,thats life,it comes out of your breath,the gas tax is nothing but a fools game,if it makes you feel better about yourself,have at her,but that`s all it is......
And,as I have stated many times,Cap n trade in europe(a brutal failure,emmissions skyrocketed)..Carbon trading(a sad joke)thousands of internet companies have started cap n trade outfits in the USA and in Canada,they are gearing up for the next bogus stock market!

And as long as industry/goverments keep conning the people with these gimmicks we will never get a solution....

There is but one answer/mandate,demand by law that industry reduce,reduce,reduce and produce clean products,anything else is a con,abd guess what,it worked,you fell for it.......
or did you?

No NDP flip-flop

Wilfred Laurier said , "If the NDP had not flip-flopped on carbon taxes."
The NDP did not flip-flop on the gas tax, that is what the MSM reported and like thinking people say.

For better info on these subjects I would suggest:
1 October 26, 2007
"The World Is Not Enough for Humans - Humanity's environmental impact has reached an unprecedented scope, and it's getting worse" from Scientific American
and
2 "Population and Sustainability/ Can We Avoid Limiting the Number of People?"/ Scientific American
They are great articles, I hope you can access them. They are each several pages long so I can't post them here.

Interesting articles/ north of hope

Here you go Wilfurd/and jwstewart....

Perhaps you should read the articles North of Hope referenced(here are the links)--That is exactly wht the gas tax is useless....Thanks Hope

Cheers-from the Powell river persuader

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-world-is-not-enough-for-humans

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=population-and-sustainability

Quarry.....

Your Hydro bill was adjusted in June and you received a refund. The second tier was removed by the BCUC. There is no longer a two tier billing system for electricity in British Columbia.

Oh, and Quarry

No need for personal attacks. I can let the facts speak for themselves. You are a fool, Quarry, you've been banned here how many times? And you have no idea where I live or what I live in.

Oh Wilfurd......

I just spent 20 minutes on the phone to BC Hydro.......

I asked if the 2 tier hydro rate had been removed and a refund issued,well.......

You are quite thick aren`t you.

The customer service agent imformed me that the hydro rate from april 1st 2008 thru to april 1st 2009 was not a permanent rate and people were over charged so a refund was sent out but..........

She went ont to say that as of april 1st 2009 the rate is permanent and......

The 2 tier rate IS IN EFFECT and the rates are............

Tier 1)5.91 cents per kilowatt hour

tier2) 8.27 cents per kilowatt hour

That is exactly what rate I posted earlier

Which means my fine feathered friend that you are WRONG AGAIN.

So the rates have more than doubled under Campbell.

And you are the one that has stated that you live in a condo.

Tuche/slam dunk/woo hoo/game set match.......
end zone dance

P.S. A little research Wilfurd alwats helps

Cheers-Eyes Wide Open

jwstewart - I'll just deal with aviation

Apparently you're not aware that flying dwarfs any other impact that an individual can exert on the environment. According to the British Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution the carbon emissions per passenger mile for a fully loaded cruising airliner are comparable to a passenger car carrying as many as four people. ('The Environmental Effects of Civil Aircraft in Flight': Special Report, 29 November 2002, para 4.38)

On a return flight from Vancouver to London every passenger produces about 2.4 tonnes of CO2 - which is the amount an individual would be permitted to emit in a whole year if we could reach an 80 - 90 percent reduction in emissions (what has just been talked about at the G8)

Added to this is the impact of aircraft because of emissions other than C02. Perhaps you're not aware the overall impact, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, is a warming effect of 2.7 times the impact of C02 alone. (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Aviation and the Global Atmosphere: Executive Summary, 2001)

Anyway, jw I could, and can, go on. The suggestion that the exclusion of aviation and marine contributors to BC's GHG load is inconsequential is not borne out by the evidence. By lots of evidence.

However, as I've already mentioned, the point is really moot since the Campbell Tax does NOTHING POSITIVE WHATEVER in any case - the only reason I mention it is to make the point that the Campbell Tax supporters are complete hypocrites.

If the Campbell Tax were a real carbon tax and the revenues generated were used to address global warming rather than to reward Gordon Campbell's friends and punish the poor and the working poor of this province then they would also apply to marine and aviation polluters.

That's all.

And thanks for the opportunity to make the case even more strongly relative to what this phony 'tax' is all about.

I appreciate it. It's too bad that the CEO's greenwash hasn't been seen for what it really is by people like Davie Suzuki and Andy Weaver though...Isn't it?

Well Garth

You can take it to the polls in 2013. But your party doesn't oppose the carbon tax anymore. So what are you going to do?

Regular gasoline was $1.02 here last night. That extra cent a litre really had a negative affect and caused the deaths of thousands of babies since that same litre of gasoline was $1.12 on July 1.

Silliness and the voters know it, too.

Why this is all nonsense.....

Today 103.691
Yesterday 105.037
One Week Ago 109.967
One Month Ago 108.935
One Year Ago 146.364

Three cents a litre carbon tax. Forty-three cents a litre price reduction.

source:

http://www.vancouvergasprices.com/

The nonsense...

...is the suggestion that ANY tax of a fraudulently revenue neutral nature on a product for which there is inelastic demand will ever be anything more than a Ponzi scheme worthy of Bernie Madoff or Gordon Campbell.

That is the nonsense - that and the naive position that:
a) the it has anything to do with reducing GHG emissions;
b) that it will ever be a positive contribution to any endeavors to provide real tangible alternatives to the use of petroleum; and
c) that it is fair and equitable when it demonstrably is not; or
d) that the so called environmentalists who support Campbell and his larceny are doing something positive by supporting him.

Wilfurd....

Are you going to ADMIT YOU WERE COMPLETELY AND TOTALY WRONG ABOUT 2 TIER HYDRO AND THE RATES or are you going to......

Try and forget the IDIOCY of your statement?
Eh Wilfurd2013 ?

Where is this poll?

Where is the link for this poll, so we can see how the question was framed?