NDP's Billion Dollar Idea to Green BC's Economy
Wary support from some enviros. Too risky say Libs.
NDP's Shane Simpson: 'pretty big piece.'
*Story updated at 2:37 p.m., Feb. 12, 2009
The NDP is announcing plans for a $1-billion-a-year green bond this morning, but critics say it will take more than that to fight climate change and restore the party's environmental image.
"The purpose for this is to find a way to engage British Columbians in the fight against climate change," the NDP's environment critic Shane Simpson told The Tyee in an interview yesterday. It will also help the province transition to a green economy, he said. "It's going to be committed to green investment in British Columbia."
The bonds will raise money from B.C. investors and pay a competitive interest rate, he said. The money will be used to provide loans for home and business retrofits, greening public infrastructure, improving public transportation and investing in green technology.
The bonds are a "pretty big piece" of the party's environmental platform, he said. "We'll be making additional announcements on the four or five core pieces of the plan as we flesh out the detail of each of those pieces and what that means."
During the federal election last fall, Liberal leader Stéphane Dion advocated a similar idea to finance clean-energy projects and NDP leader Jack Layton announced plans for a bond to fight climate change.
'A good step': Suzuki's Bruce
There will be further announcements on the B.C. New Democrats' transit plan, infrastructure spending and green technology fund, Simpson said.
The platform is more substantial than what the B.C. Liberals are delivering, he said. "This compares up against $14 billion unfunded transit plans and $3 billion bridges and $365 million roofs for sports facilities."
When Premier Gordon Campbell rolled out his carbon tax last year, the David Suzuki Foundation's climate change specialist Ian Bruce was in the legislative buildings to talk about it. This morning, he heard about the NDP's green bond idea on the radio news and was still getting the details.
"In general it sounds like a good idea," he said. "It's a good step, but we're still yet to see a comprehensive climate change plan come from the NDP."
If the party was serious about climate change, they'd support a carbon tax, he said. "One of the foundations for any climate change plan is putting a price on carbon emissions," he said. "To date it has been a lot of misinformation [from the NDP], particularly on the B.C. carbon tax they've been focused on."
More needed on climate change: Greens' Sterk
"It could be an exciting initiative," said Green Party leader Jane Sterk. "I do think municipal bonds around issues like this might be a way to reform the economy into a way that's more environmentally sustainable."
While she's happy to give credit where it's due and champion the best ideas, Sterk said, the NDP has a long way to go on the environment. "I think one policy doesn't make an environmental platform," she said.
"They for the most part are opportunistic. I don't think they have a principled stance, and we do."
Voters who think the environment is important will vote for the Green Party, she said. "The Green Party platform is the only one that understands the serious ramifications of climate change."
Some 18 months ago, the NDP announced they were consulting on developing a climate change plan. It's yet to be publicly presented, Bruce said. "We're hoping to see their plan in the coming few weeks."
'Axe the gas tax' hasn't hurt NDP: Simpson
Simpson said the NDP's opposition to Campbell's "just for show" carbon tax, which would have had to be much, much larger to be effective, has not harmed the party politically.
"By the time we get to the election, we will have laid out the other components of our plan and we'll be wedding those to our economic plan," he said. "I think we'll see by the time we get to the election we will pretty much own the environmental issue again.
"I'm pretty confident that when we ask people to measure up what we're saying about the environment and the economy and how they come together, and what Gordon Campbell is saying, we'll be just fine."
In a press release today, B.C. Liberal Finance Minister Colin Hansen dismissed the new bond proposal from the New Democrats: "We saw the NDP do this in the 1990s with BC Saving Bonds and it was a financial disaster. This new scheme might be repackaged with a fancy new bow but the risk to the province is simply too great a price to pay."
B.C. Savings Bonds were in fact launched in 1988 by the then Social Credit government.*
Related Tyee stories:
- In Canada, a Push for Obama-style Green Stimulus
PM to get plan backed by 850,000 group members. - NDP Takes Heat on Global Warming
Stance against carbon tax steams BC enviros. - Campbell's Global Warming Game
While eagerly enabling tar sands and freeways, he's cooled out green foes.
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40
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G West
3 years ago
Excellent Plan
Just too bad the CEO hadn't done something similar instead of relying on P3 partnerships with his foreign friends and hedge fund rip off artists.
Give the five people in BC who still have some jingle in their jeans after 8 years of Gordo larceny a change to invest in their own future.
Hope it's not too late though!
G West
3 years ago
Erratum
Should be:
Give the five people in BC who still have some jingle in their jeans after 8 years of Gordo larceny a chance to invest in their own future.
sirjohna
3 years ago
this is it? this is their
this is it? this is their long-awaited 'plan'? this is as ludicrous as the ccpa's claim that they are non-partisan. thanks carole, adrian, bill and david. that sigh of relief was well worth waiting for.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Carole's Green Shift Plan...
Carole James:
Today, with
Stephane Dion'sCarole's new Green Shift plan she states:Ergo Carole must now be "in touch" with British Columbians. NOT.
Green Party leader Jane Sterk says it best:
G West
3 years ago
compared with the money laundering
Compared with the CEO's money laundry it's a lovely breath of fresh air.
Remember, three quarters of the emission reduction necessary by 2020 will have to be achieved domestically, through a very high ($195 per tonne) carbon tax - which makes the CEO's current $30/tonne wurlitzer look like the bad joke it is.
When you're fighting a guy flat on his back with the load of out of control P3 spending, a failed BC Ferries 'corporation', an emasculated BC Hydro and a dead forest industry you don't have to be a genius...almost anything would be better than the last 8 years of conversion, sell-outs and mismanagement.
Skywalker
3 years ago
Luke, I think you mean Liberals
"They [the Liberals] for the most part are opportunistic. I don't think they have a principled stance." That was when the cash cow carbon tax was introduced. So what is wrong with setting up an opportunity for individuals to invest in green initiatives. I'm not a fan of Carole's but my goodness that beats giving more money to Campbell and his thugs and expecting them to do something to save the environment with it, while they sell off any opportunity to do something meaningful.
Even the CBC's Jeff Davies at noon today had a short clip of James and then tree times the time given to Colin Hanson to respond. Like we should believe anything Hanson says but goodness, even the CBC can't be non partisan and plays silly games.
PeteL
3 years ago
The nature of things indeed.
I am totally appalled by most of the envrio NGO's today. From what I have seen on the transportation front these groups have totally sold out the environment for corporate kudo's and boardroom money. They are only masquerading as enviro's now, but worse they give the average person who thinks turning down the lights the impression that the neo-cons are going to solve the massive environmental crisis we face today.
David Suzuki and his lot should die of shame. Lizzy May would sell her mother earth for a Senate seat wouldn't she. I'll tell you she didn't give a crap about oily birds when coherent more stringent procedures were proposed to really catch shipping polluters.
Whats Suzuki's position on Gateway again? Whats his position on tearing down a perfectly good bridge? This is his government? The BC Liberals?
Goodness gracious.
quarry bay
3 years ago
Luke/Sir Johna
It doesn`t matter,like you say Luke and Sir Johna, the BC Liberals are going to have 55 seats and the NDP are to be wiped off the map.
NOT---You media monitor/ and comic book reader have got fear in your posts.
Hansen(finance minister)--He can`t even talk anymore.....
You think people can`t see him and Campbell and Falcon fumbling to choose a word,or words to use. Example ........
Hansen on the security budget --" We are paying 50% of,some of,what we agreee to pay,that is 50% of incremental items that the federal goverment and Vanoc and the cities deem that is our share of the budget"
I might be bias against criminals but.......
Do you not see that everyone in the province knows that Campbell/Hansen/Falcon are lying through their teeth?
Hey LUKE---Remember this statement from Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberals ...
"With this carbon tax it is the equivelant of taking 400.000 cars off the roads every year"
Wow,that is some kind of statement,why would we need to build a 6 billion dollar 10 lane bridge if every year 400.000 cars are coming off the roads?
When is the next flip flop coming from Campbell,you know Luke,when is Campbell cancelling the Carbon tax?
How will Campbell explain to all the future generations he was so worried about?
What was it Campbell said "Global warming is the battle of our lives,we owe it to future generations, I couldn`t live with myself knowing I didn`t do everything possible to stop global warming"
I guess with the economy in it`s worst shape ever in the history of BC that global warming and future generations are going to have to wait.
midnightsimon
3 years ago
What a joke! When will
What a joke!
When will folks get the memo that real action on climate change can not be VOLUNTARY?
I'm no fan of Gordon Campbell by any measure, but the carbon tax was at least a first tentative step in the right direction.
I generally consider myself a progressive, but the NDP's 'say anything to get elected' platform this year makes me sick.
G West
3 years ago
NO it wasn't midnight simon
It did nothing but launder money - transferring it to Gordon's friends and away from the poor and lower middle class.
Carbon Taxes are only effective if they DO SOMETHING - the Campbell Tax just played footsie with the environment.
The joke is that anyone accepted the lies that it was an effective approach to the problem.
midnightsimon
3 years ago
G west - care to direct me
G west - care to direct me to any documentation of this laundering - eg, where that money went that's so offensive?
I make under $20,000 a year. That makes me the working poor. I got my piddly $100 check, but I don't drive and keep a pretty low power bill, so I figure I won in that equation. The carbon tax as it stands was brought in a at a low $/ton because to bring it in higher would genuinely hurt the economy. You have to start small and ratchet it up.
Please don't mistake me as a supporter of the Liberals though - I thought the carbon tax was a great idea before the Liberals ripped it off, and I still think it is.
G West
3 years ago
Absolutely
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/news/2008/10/PressRelease2002/
You can download the report there...
As I posted above, to be effective as an economic deterrent the tax would have to be about 70 times higher than its current level in order to reach the 2020 goals for domestic carbon reduction.
The current tax is a joke because demand for gasoline is relatively inelastic - which is why you haven't seen a lot of SUVs sitting idle. The revenue neutrality issue is covered in Lee's study - the payback from government to low income people is less than it is to the middle class and the wealthy.
I posted the following comment about the tax on another thread here at Tyee - I'll post it again here, kind of sums up where I'm coming from:
I've been vocally against the Campbell Tax because it's nothing more than a stupid and feckless money spinner.
If the CEO had taken the proceeds of the Carbon Tax and funneled it directly into paying for a sensible and rational effort to build decent LRT systems wherever needed, to encourage conversion to natural gas fuel for trucks and industrial equipment and to find ways to enable people to live rationally without using the private automobile I'd have had a hard time criticizing him.
In fact, I'd have had to swallow hard and give him credit for making a hard and proper choice....just like I had to reluctantly pat Flaherty and Harper on the back when they phased out income trusts and prevented the sale of Macdonald Detweiler.
I wouldn't have enjoyed it, but I'd have done it.
That's what it means, in my view, to live in a complex world.
Fortunately, Campbell and his idiot advisers haven't got the sense necessary to realize how badly they've cocked it up.
Oh, one other thing, you need to look at the fact that airplanes, cruise ships and a fairly large group of other carbon producers aren't charged the tax at all.
SharingIsGood
3 years ago
Bond, green bond? I'm in.
I'm in. I'll invest $50,000 into green bonds within the first year the NDP puts the bonds on the market.
Frank
3 years ago
midnightsimon
We've had the carbon tax for half a year. The crumbling world economy has done more to save the environment than Gord's 2.5 cents a litre gas tax. Perhaps you can but I can't find a single report claiming that that carbon tax is doing its job of getting rid of trucks and SUV's.
In fact, the same gov't that brought in the carbon tax is planning for a future of there being more cars on the road in BC than ever.
Which tells me they don't believe in their own tax.
The NDP plan on the other hand will have a bigger and better effect on the environment than the 2.5 cents a litre has had.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
quarry bay...
This "New" James Bond - 007 flick should be entitled "License to Fail". ;)
quarry bay
3 years ago
Luke
I read comic books,no insult intended.
I also read facts.
Here are some facts....
Fact #1 Gordon Campbell has the record for the 3 largest deficits in BC History
(Next week`s budget will set the new deficit record)
Fact #2 The NDP left the liberals a surplus (a record at the time) 1.5 billion
Fact #3 the deficit campbell ran up in 2002-2003 the record ---3.3 billion dollar deficit
Fact #4 --Gordon Campbell has the piled up the highest future obligations in the form of pP3s and Power agreements to the tune of 70 billion
Fact #5 homelessness has quadripled under Campbell,so today we have 20.000 people living on the streets and under bridges.
Fact #6 BC has lead Canada with child poverty for 6 straight years 23% --Almost 1 in 4 children in BC live in POVERTY/NO FOOD/NO TOYS/NO CHILDHOOD--Childhood comes once,you can`t give it back to them when they are homeless adults!
Fact #7--BC forestry is in the worst shape in the history of BC, 40.000 forestry jobs gone, Campbell let them bleed away over the last 6 years.
Fact #8---BC has never exported more raw logs in the history of BC then under Gordon Campbell.
RickW
3 years ago
QB!
How dare you run LSW into a carner like that! Now he'll have to resoret to the sort of fanciful stumbling that Collin Hansen is so good at to come back at'cha.......
Our finance minister said the Libs would rather BORROW the money than let BC'ers participate in the prosperity of the province. He should know -- he's VERY GOOD at borrowing money -- then letting BC'ers "participate" by paying interest and service charges for the next umpteen years.
Skywalker
3 years ago
Geez Luke.
Sto parroting lines that were spoken by one of the liberals today. Surely you don't have to respond by quoting you handlers all the time. It does get tiresome.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
NDP Leading in BC By 9% !!!!!!
From Bill Tieleman:
Time to get ready to uncork the champagne boys and girls!!! :)
http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2009/02/bc-liberals-internal-polling-shows-them.html
See, I said James Bonds - Series 007 was/would be a game chamger! ;)
lynn
3 years ago
Mr. Stand-Up Comedy
O' the hypocrisy when Colin Hansen, Minister of Olympic-Sized Cost Over-Runs and P3 Bail-Outs, calls this green bond plan "too risky"....
And then I heard him say on the news today he was worried about "the advertising expense" involved with this plan......funny stuff, Mr. Hansen......this coming from a government with the largest public affairs/propaganda bureau in the history of this province.
Then Shecky Hansen went on to say this plan was a James Bond (yuk, yuk) "License to Kill"......
Nope, wrong again, Mr. Hansen, name already taken......"License to Kill", is the other name for your government's most recent grand mal flip-flop.... you know, the one that now legalizes deficit budgets....and stuff like cost over-runs for the Olympics... and The Port Mann Billions upon Billions Bridge Club....and.....and your government's real success story: the highest child poverty rate in Canada.
lynn
3 years ago
correctomundo
should read : License to Fail"...though when it comes to the ever-rising levels of poverty in this province some of us may find a degree of accuracy in the former title.
RickW
3 years ago
Internal Liberal Poll?
Perhaps Little Gord is mimicking Big Stephen:
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/Strange+days+Harper+office+hint+departure/1281519/story.html
quarry bay
3 years ago
Luke.........
Hey Buddy,hows it going........Still with internal polls....RON Cantelon in Nanaimo,toast...........John Les in Chilliwak,toast...........Ida Chong....Toast..........Stan(rest in peace) riding going NDP
Murray Coell ....Toast
Why do you think the likes of Tom Christian is stepping down?
Forgot one Ian Black,toast.......................And Barry Penner,toast
Gordon Campbell might even lose his own riding,right now it is neck and neck.
Yes indeed,I have been waiting 4 years to open up that bottle of Dom.
zalm
3 years ago
Objectivism 101
Our finance minister said the Libs would rather BORROW the money than let BC'ers participate in the prosperity of the province.
Most succinctly put, RickW. This is the whole issue right here.
Van Isle
2 years ago
There are 2 big differences
There are 2 big differences with a bond vs a tax. 1) a bond goes directly into green projects and not into general revenue as Gordo's green tax does. 2) Nobody has their arm twisted to buy a bond vs a tax is imposed whether you like it or not. Also Gordo's tax has exemptions like coal and fuel oil for cruise ships.
Nanny
2 years ago
Olympics
Due to the current world wide financial meltdown do we really believe Vancouver will receive the expected numbers of visitors for the Winter Olympics ? I don't. I believe we have a major financial disaster on our hands because of the current but long term impact of the economic situation. The economic situation is far worse than what our mainstream media or our politicians are telling us. I hope I am wrong. This should be openly discussed by our current crop of municipal and provincial politicians. Our media should be digging out information on the likely impact of the meltdown in the U.S. and hence the world & what this will mean to our Province. The poor, poor taxpayers of British Columbia. I believe this is going to be a mess. Bad timing.
Bailey
2 years ago
Define green
Taxing carbon is a good idea, but like all the ideas being touted around this issue lately, it's only part of an idea, and doomed without the rest of it in place.
What point is there taxing carbon unless you offer an alternative? How many alternative fuelled cars are there for sale? Electric cars, propane cars, fuel cell cars? If transport is the biggest source, what will raising the price on transport accomplish until there is another way to do it that doesn't contribute so much carbon?
You hear the same faulty reasoning wherever somebody is trying to corral public resources for private gain. Look at run of river hydro. Sure, it doesn't burn carbon, but if it leads to the extinction of whole races of food fish which have sustained high culture for millennia, then you simply trade. Instead of burning carbon, you burn food stocks, life itself. Maybe you could say you're burning all hope for the future.
Not all that green, really, when you look closer.
A bond issue is a great idea, but it needs some careful thought about what will qualify. All the necessary parts of the puzzle need to be on the table, to get the picture to come out right.
And it isn't like that would be difficult, if the will is there. When California mandated 10% emission free vehicles on sale by a set date the industry complained it couldn't be done, nobody would buy, and so on.
But they met the deadline, didn't they? And people bought them.
reallife
2 years ago
Bailey
Quote "When California mandated 10% emission free vehicles on sale by a set date the industry complained it couldn't be done, nobody would buy, and so on.
But they met the deadline, didn't they? And people bought them."
Excellent point! BC could take this a step further and ban the sale or import of any non-fuel efficient vehicles. Applying a tax, especially one punitive enough to have an impact, only affects the middle and lower classes. The wealthy will still drive the more polluting vehicles. This issue is typified by the problem the EU is having with setting corporate fuel efficiency ratings. Companies marketing a cross-section of vehicles can offset gas guzzlers with compact models. But makers like Ferrari or Rolls Royce cannot and are fighting proposed regulation.
Quote "...(run of the river) leads to the extinction of whole races of food fish.."
Can you help me with the background on this? I am not aware of any such problem.
Bailey
2 years ago
fish out of water
When these projects were being promoted, Chapter 11 of NAFTA had already been signed. There was extensive speculation that under those provisions government would have no power to regulate these projects.
Since they are private companies being given public resources, they take no risk by damaging any other users of the rivers, and since they are foreign companies, if any regulation or action by government might reduce their possibility of profit, they were thought to be permitted by Chapter 11 to recover such 'lost' potential profits through the courts.
In my reading of it, the reason for such public regulation is held to be irrelevant to the action. Any lost potential profits can be sued for, and won.
I point to the action by an American courier delivery service against Canada Post as example.
So, it would not be legal for anyone to reduce the flow, or to require the company to reduce the flow for the benefit of fish unless they can pay the full market value of any electricity that might have been produced by such water to the company.
Tax money, since only government would be authorized to set such a limit at all.
How long exactly, do you think, till the foreign company succeeds in wiping out the pesky fish to eliminate the competition for their money flow?
I also would like to refer you to the articles here on the Tyee by Rafe Mair on the subject of the stresses fish stocks already suffer in British Columbia.
sirjohna
2 years ago
NDP Leading in BC By 9% !!!!!!
huh??? here's the latest mustel:
libs: 51%
ndp: 36%
dream on.
quarry bay
2 years ago
The real POLL
Great comments under this story,especially by A G Tsakumas
http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2009/02/bc-liberals-internal-polling-shows-them.html
BC Liberals are freaking out over the LEAK
Cheers
rangergord
2 years ago
green bonds
Yahoo! More questionable debt for investors to purchase. I suppose the bonds will pay a reasonable return of 10-15% to offset the growing real inflation rates, and thus the public will rush to buy them. More likely bonds in general will be exposed in the near future as the questionable, high risk investments they are at this stage of the crisis.
quarry bay
2 years ago
Wrong Rangergord.....
These bond`s will be guaranteed by the province of BC.
The return will be average but safe,and the money stays in BC/
It beats borrowing money from New York hedge funds at 11% to 14% cost
zalm
2 years ago
Gawd, QB
Do you have to keep quoting Alex Tsakumis? I'm feeling like Bc Mary every time she sees a portrait of "The Great Communicator" at the top of a Tyee Headline.
Alex is a stopped clock - right twice a day, only you never know when. Quoting him is like Chaim Herzog quoting Hitler. There might be reasons for doing it, but not good ones.
ComoxValley T.M.
2 years ago
Working together
I would have to know more details about this plan but initially it sounds like it could be part of the funding strategy for green initiatives. What I really want to adress is some of the anti-NDP comments on this site. I find some of 'greener than thou' attitudes quite deplorable. The NDP does have some very strong environmental policies including support for a Just Transition to a Sustainable Society. The past NDP government doubled the amount of parkland. There are other examples of genuine action to address the planet threatening crisis we face. Sure the NDP screwed up in Clayaquot but they have learned from it. It is amazing how much slack some sections of the environmental movement give the Liberal gov't.
I think that is class based. A lot of Greens , not all by any means, are fairly well off. Therefore a lot of their solutions are market based ie tax incentives for companies and puntative taxes on workers and poor. The carbon tax seems to be some kind of holy grail for some environmentalists. I admit I wouldn't have objected to it so much if the monies raised by it had gone directly into researching and implementing alternate energy and transportation options.But it didn't. Also only people who don't live paycheque to paycheque think getting a tax rebate the next year is equitable.
The only way this struggle is going to be won is by working together. The NDP needs to put their environmental policies front and centre for examination,and work with the other parties and groups and not be afraid to adjust and change policies and positions when needed. But those other parties and groups need to scrap their class bias and anti-union attitudes. If you think the Liberals when confronted with choosing between their Howe St friends and their new found friends in Sierra Club or the Suzuki Foundation will opt for the planet, you better just go on a nice walk in the woods to clear your head.
rangergord
2 years ago
risky bonds
These bond`s will be guaranteed by the province of BC.
There is no such thing as guaranteed with bonds or anything else. So called guaranteed investments are propped up by massive derivitive schemes. Even the FDIC could fail under present circumstances.
The return will be average but safe,and the money stays in BC/
Average and safe returns insure that your money will depreciate in value over the term of the bond. Real inflation rates are far to high for "safe" returns of less than 10%
It beats borrowing money from New York hedge funds at 11% to 14% cost.
Anytime you can pull the wool over investors eyes the profits are immense.
quarry bay
2 years ago
Zalm...did you wake up on the wrong side of
I don`t read A G Tsakumas
Do I think these bonds are the greatest investment tool ever,certainly not.
A small return on investment is better than people losing their shirts in equities/stocks/ commercial paper/
Why dont you ask millions of investors if they wouls be happy with a 1% to 3 % return on investments?
It beats the hell out of BCers Paying through the nose for P3 consortiums and dealing with the likes of .....
Fortress investments or the Macquarie group
And the green bonds will be a choice,they won`t be shoved down your throat like.....
The 100 million dollars per year the Macquarie group gets for maintaing the sea to sky highway/for 25 years----Or entering into a toll agreement that will cost tax-payers and bridge users 10 to 15 billion dollars for a 2 billion dollar bridge.
zalm
2 years ago
Ahem....
quarry bay 2 days ago
Great comments under this story,especially by A G Tsakumas
You don't read him but you quote him? I think this sentence belongs on the Orwell thread.... ;>)
quarry bay
2 years ago
Zalm,,,,,,,
OK,but be fair,A G Tsakumas was only commenting about the Tieleman piece,and he commented on some of the comments.
I think the bonds are a decent idea, isn`t flashy but people I think are ready for some safe investments, if it doesn`t work we are no further ahead or behind.
Not a flashy scheme,like a carbon tax disguised as a tax cut.Money in money out and people believe it is a tax cut?
If the province really wants to make money, build a giant bridge(themselves)charge an escalating toll and......
5.00 dollar toll for 40 years,will bring in 9.500.000.000.00 billion dollars,seems like a about a 7 billion dollar profit on a 3 billion dollar btidge.
presently 65.000 thousand vehicles a day cross each way for a total of 130.000 thousand crossings a day X 5.00 =
Well everyone can do math.
zalm
2 years ago
Don't get me wrong
I think the idea of these bonds is great. But God is in the details....