Turning Down Dion
NDP candidate Michael Byers on why he chose a tough riding, and declined to run elsewhere for the Liberals.
"We want... our next Outremont." Photo by Monte Paulsen.
Michael Byers would appear to be a pretty smart guy. He holds a prestigious Canada Research Chair at the University of British Columbia. He writes highly acclaimed books such as last year's Intent for a Nation: What is Canada For? And he is a regular contributor to smarty-pants journals such as the London Review of Books.
So why would such a smart guy turn down not one but two offers to run in an easy riding for the Liberal Party of Canada, and choose instead to compete in one of the toughest four-way electoral contests of this election as a New Democrat?
And is he at all uncomfortable about his decision to trade a prominent university chair for what -- assuming he bests two local incumbents and B.C.'s most popular Green -- will in all likelihood lead to seat in the back benches of Parliament?
The Tyee put those and other questions to Byers over a luxurious breakfast at Hastings Street's infamous Ovaltine Café.
Tyee: Why would you turn down a relatively easy riding with a shot at a cabinet post to jump into one of the toughest local races in Canada? Are you a masochist?
Byers: "Well, first off, I disagree that there is very little chance the New Democrats will form a government. I think that Canadian politics is in a period of enormous flux and almost anything is possible. That's what makes it exciting.
"This is arguably the most important election in Canada for decades. And so much is changing so quickly that I don't think anyone should make any assumptions about what the outcome should be."
What did the Liberals offer you? And who made the offer?
"I was approached by the Liberals twice. First in February of this year, by Mr. Dion's advisor on Northern affairs. During that first approach, a cabinet post was explicitly mentioned. I brushed them off fairly quickly at that time.
"The second approach was much more concerted. I was invited to meet face-to-face with Mr. Dion. I considered an invitation to meet with the leader of Her Majesty's Official Opposition as both flattering and important.
"Mr. Dion asked me to take a serious look at West Vancouver-Sunshine Coast. When someone in that position asks you to do something, you do it. I met with both Bruce Young and [top Dion strategist] Mark Marissen. I consulted closely with my wife. And I decided it was not something I could do.
"Though I actually like Mr. Dion as a person, and I believe he is trying to do the right thing."
Why not?
"Mr. Dion and I spoke frankly about climate change and about Afghanistan. Unfortunately, we didn't agree on either.
"The issue at the moment was Dion's approach to climate change. I took a look at his Green Shift document and decided it was the wrong approach at the wrong time.
"He is proposing to put a tax on fuel that had already surged by nearly 200 per cent, therefore adding additional stress to individual Canadians and to the economy as a whole. So while I think it would have been appropriate to introduce a carbon tax when the liberals can to power in 1993 -- and oil was $20 a barrel -- to do it now would be a price shock that would impose additional economic stress and social inequity."
So on that one point, you agree with Stephen Harper?
"Where I agree with the prime minister is that we need to have caps and a trading system for carbon among large polluters. Where I disagree is the speed and depth of those cuts.
"The prime minister's cap-and-trade is smoke and mirrors that really involves no policy changes until long after he is prime minister. The NDP's cap-and-trade is pretty rigorous, and therefore more in line with the European Union or what is being proposed by Barack Obama in the United States."
And your second disagreement with Dion involved Afghanistan?
"I was very, very disappointed with his last minute decision to support the extension of the mission to 2011. I regarded that as an act of political expediency. And acts of political expediency do not belong in decisions on the lives and deaths of young Canadians.
"There are young Canadians dying in Afghanistan because Stephane Dion did not have the guts to face the Canadian people."
OK. But it's still a long walk from saying 'No thank you' to Dion to saying 'Vote for me' in Vancouver-Centre. How'd that happen?
"Well, then, as sometimes happens -- I guess it was a remarkable sort of coincidence, or perhaps some people might call it fate -- just a few days after I told Mr. Dion 'No,' I received a phone call from Randall Garrison to tell me that... for personal reasons, he was pulling out of the race for Vancouver-Centre. [Byers says he'd been advising Layton on foreign policy issues for about five years, and remained "blown away" by the NDP leader's understanding and commitment to policy.]
"Jack phoned an hour or two later. The message was, sometimes the universe unfolds as it should. It felt just right. When we made the decision, I went for a run in the forest at UBC. I probably ran farther and faster than I'd run in 10 years 'cause it just felt so good. I was born to do this."
You were born to take on longtime Liberal incumbent Hedy Fry, who has served the riding since 1993, Conservative challenger Lorne Mayencourt, who served the same neighbourhood as a BC Liberal in Victoria, and Green Party deputy leader Adriane Carr, who has deep support in the riding?
"If I were running in some safe seat, I wouldn't be adding anything. I'd just be coasting.
"I think that Vancouver-Centre is a New Democrat riding, demographically. And I believe that it's important to add ridings. I don't want a safe seat. I want to earn it. And I want to help the party. I want to help us form government. Also, I think this high-profile race is a good opportunity to talk about ideas."
No doubt. You rarely miss an opportunity to talk about Afghanistan, housing, the environment...
"We know who caused Canada's housing crisis. And one of the people who caused it happens to be the sitting MP in Vancouver-Centre. In those crucial years from 1993 to 1996 when the deepest cuts were made to Canada's housing programs, Ms. Fry was a member of Parliament.
"Likewise, the Liberals, with all due respect, had their chance to ratify Kyoto and did nothing. Which party leader was the environment minister who refused to cooperate with California on mandatory standards for fuel efficiency for vehicles?
"Another reason..."
OK. OK. Still, this is a tight four-way race. It could come down to a margin of less than a hundred votes between the first and second-place finishers. Each of your three competitors has experience running voter turnout operations. Why should anyone believe you're going to beat the busloads of voters that Marissen is infamous for delivering?
"The New Democratic Party is making the biggest across-the-board effort in Vancouver-Centre. We want this to be our next Outremont. [The Quebec riding won by NDP candidate Thomas Mulcair in a fall 2007 byelection.]
"And look what we did in Outremont. We didn't just win a safe Liberal seat. We won it by 22 per cent.
"I have a phenomenal team around me.... We're raising more money than the Liberal Party of Canada. We have organizational skills that are not matched by the dysfunctional Liberal party, either nationally or in the riding."
This is shaping up to be a dirty race. Are you prepared to fight back?
"I have thicker skin than most people would ever imagine... I have been pilloried by Bill O'Reilly. I'm not afraid of Hedy Fry."
I heard you came to Conservative candidate Lorne Mayencourt's defence after the Liberals circulated a grainy video on which he waffled about Insite. Is that true?
"That video made me cringe. It was an attempt to sensationalize a legitimate point: The contradiction between Mr. Mayencourt's record and that of Stephen Harper. Why not just be upfront and say, we see a conflict here?
[Byers appeared on a CKNW radio show alongside Fry and Mayencourt just days after the video surfaced on YouTube.]
"When we were off-air, I made the point to Hedy that dirty politics weren't appropriate, that Lorne and I had both been smeared by the Liberals, and that it was time to stop. She was very defensive."
It is interesting how the best conversations in radio so often happen off the air. Anyway, even if you beat Fry, Mayencourt and Carr, you go on to what will quite likely be a backbench seat in the third- or fourth-place party in Parliament. And if Harper wins a majority, you'll be there for four years. How is that a better platform from which to advocate your ideas than your chair at UBC?
[Byers predicts a "balance of power" minority government situation in which the NDP will play a role with the Liberals and other parties in passing legislation.] "But if that is the outcome, I am going to do the very best job I can to hold Harper and his government to account in the public eye. And, at committee, to ensure that he gets away with the absolute minimum that he can get away with.
"The Ottawa Citizen has called me an incessant thorn in the prime minister's side. That's without even being a member of Parliament. I'm going to be Stephen Harper's nightmare."
Related Tyee stories:
- How to Strengthen Our Arctic Security
Keep our promises to the Inuit. An Arctic dispatch by Michael Byers and Jack Layton. - Dion Could Make Huge Play
Perfect time to change way we elect politicians. - Martin's BC Boys Back Dion
Key BC Liberals helped Paul Martin overthrow Jean Chrétien and take control of the party. Now many have joined another team.




16
Login or register to post comments
egmont rapids
3 years ago
I could vote for that man
A rare breed, someone who speaks their mind and doesn`t care who he offends.
Lets hope he remains true once elected.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Byers...
Vancouver East yes... but Vancouver Centre, which has never elected an NDP MP?
The provincial ridings therein comprise Vancouver Burrard (Liberal-close) and roughly Vancouver-Fairview (NDP - close).
The following riding map shows the provincial "blue" of the Burrard provincial riding:
http://bc2009.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/vancouver-burrard.gif
And the "federal" Liberals have strength in the provincial NDP "orange" areas of that map, inclusive of Davie Village.
There is simply too much condominium development in Vancouver Centre, which demographics are non-NDP, resulting in the increased population in Vancouver Centre over the past decade.
That's exactly the same statement that David Emerson made during the 2006 election, prior to his floor crossing a few days later. :)
G West
3 years ago
Flux
I think Byers is absolutely correct...something is stirring in the electorate and Harper's paralysis on the economic risk factors emerging with each passing day is accentuating the potential for it to happen with this election.
Furthermore, Dion's connections with Gerard Kennedy and the Campbell/Marissen forces have him on the wrong side of things here in BC. This is not a good time to be associated with ‘Campbell’ liberals…
Byers has a far greater potential to be pee wee's nightmare than a corporate shill like Emerson ever did.....
Michael
3 years ago
Social inequality?
If Byers is worried about the Green Shift causing social inequality, why is he joining a party that opposed a reduction in the GST, the most regressive tax out there?
In a first past the post system, the NUMBER ONE RULE is that you need a big tent to represent your ideas. Ask Reform and Conservatives about a decade ago. Left-leaning voters are opening themselves up for a word of hurt this election cycle.
G West
3 years ago
Michael
Sounds like you're a Liberal...the problem with Liberals is that they've tried to make the tent so big that they let a bunch of Bay Street right wingers steal beneath the flaps and take off with all the silverware.
The hurt coming isn't going to be restricted to leftists.
Dave2
3 years ago
true, then NDP have never
true, then NDP have never taken Centre, but the CCF did once in a byelection many years ago.
The brain
3 years ago
Please can someone tell me...
Why there are 5 Liberal MLA's running as Conservatives in this election from BC?
It seems as though this small disconnect is being missed. And then Byers says this:
"The issue at the moment was Dion's approach to climate change. I took a look at his Green Shift document and decided it was the wrong approach at the wrong time." - Byers
Yup, sounds like Harper. There is no right time to do anything about climate change, we either won't make a difference or no one else is doing anything about it, or its too expensive, so lets do nothing. I really get a kick out of Layton being proud to "come on board with Harper for a big 20% reduction by 2020 from 2006 levels. Big whoop. Interesting how a bill got passed by Harper and Layton "promising" to hit these targets, but not actually having any plan laid ut to do so, or enforcement/penalties putting these targets into law in any way shape or form. My God, what will they think of next. Lets pass a bill "promising" action without ever making it binding in any way shape or form.
"He is proposing to put a tax on fuel that had already surged by nearly 200 per cent, therefore adding additional stress to individual Canadians and to the economy as a whole. So while I think it would have been appropriate to introduce a carbon tax when the liberals can to power in 1993 -- and oil was $20 a barrel -- to do it now would be a price shock that would impose additional economic stress and social inequity."
Since the summer, we have seen a barrel of oil peak from $150 to below $90 and still falling. Projections indicate that a world wide recession will create oversupply of crude and a BOE will price well below $60 bucks a barrel and flirt with bottoms in the $40's assuming U.S. currency doesn't crash. We are walking into copper worth 1.50 per pound and other commodities both base and precious hitting numbers not seen for 4 years or more and now Byers is preaching this nonsense?
Wow, another wannabe politician who thinks we can lay coilers in our own bed and not roll in it. Buddy just doesn't get it. So whats Latyon's big promise he'll never fulfill? An immediate $35 dollar a tonne carbon tax. Sorry folks, but this is the talk of a hypocrite.
Its like Afghanistan. Layton wants to pull everyone out. I can see walking away from military offensives and establishing diplomacy which I've always advocated. But pull out peacekeepers? We walk away from a peacekeeping role including a UN sanctioned role with NATO, and we risk having any influence at all on Obama for peaceful solutions down the road, especially with diplomacy and we heavily risk doing it at the expense of Afghan lives.
The role in Afghanistan has to change but a full withdrawl is not required to change our role there. Its too extreme and wrong headed. Its the same with corporate taxation. Does anyone seriously believe corporate taxes won't go up if Canada starts running deficits? Who was it that jacked up corporate taxation to 30%, lest we forget. Oh yeah. Right. It was Chretien and the elitist Martin.
I could go on, but the writing is on the wall. Hedy walks away with this riding once again for good reasons.
Frank
3 years ago
The brain
"Byers is preaching this nonsense?"
What nonsense? You didn't say where you disagreed with him on that.
"Its like Afghanistan. Layton wants to pull everyone out"
So do Dion and Harper, but they want Canadians to die for 3 more years before they're allowed to come home.
"Does anyone seriously believe corporate taxes won't go up if Canada starts running deficits?"
No one has mentioned it. Do you think Dion will increase corporate taxes to 30% if Canada starts running deficits?
emulatenorway
3 years ago
Splitting Votes....
Michael Byers has a few good points in his book regarding change and how we need to develop more cohensive and longstanding agendas and policies. His views aren't short term as most politicians tend to lean towards.
While Byers may actually be interested in standing with the NDP at the moment I do not believe he is there to become the next incumbent. The NDP need to take votes away from Harper and Dion so by putting a man with "education and experience" in the ring they may be able to garner a few more votes that normally they wouldn't receive.
The demographics for the area do require someone well educated and able to wow the crowd. Will he do it? I'll keep watching this race as it should be an interesting one that in the future may cover more than a few paragraphs in someones autobiography.
G West
3 years ago
A couple of guys I heard about
Had left the Cons for the Libs over Income Trusts....I'm not sure about Garth Turner - in fact, if McCain wants to learn about being a Maverick then he should ask Garth how...I'm not sure he could get along with anyone..
Who were you thinking of Lorne?
alda
3 years ago
GST & Afghanistan
1. The GST is NOT a regressive tax. Although there are perhaps, granted, better ways to tax the well-off, the GST puts a hefty little tax on the wealthy's excessive spending. Simply put, the more goods you buy and consume - the more you pay.... and the rich, according to statistics, consume A LOT.
2. Our current role can in no-way, no-how, be called a "peace-keeping" mission. It's merely called that by our so-called leaders trying to appease the public by masking our REAL reason for being in Afghanistan (defending American oil pipeline and opium money interests). You can be rest assured we're not there to "help little girls to read and write." As most wars are, it's a colonial venture - an indirect grab for resources, as most wars are.
If our troops were there to peace-keep, our soldiers would be wearing blue helmets and passing out chocolate bars, not being blown to bloody bits by little boxes on the side of roads.
I truly feel sorry for those in the military (and their families) who've been duped into thinking that serving in this misadventure is an act of patriotism. Their heroism and sacrifices are in utter vain.
G West
3 years ago
Sorry Alda, I don't agree
The GST is regressive. Take, for example, the total consumer spending of two individuals.
One of them earns 200K/annum and the other earns 20K.
Now look at the package of taxable goods each one 'has' to buy - clothes, dry goods, furniture, a car, furniture etc.
Lets assume that amounts to 6 K for each of them and the tax on that 6K at 5% is $300.00 per annum...(also lets assume this is above and beyond the GST tax credit which the lower income person gets but the higher income guy doesn't)
Now take that $300 as a percentage of each individual's total income. For the low income earner it is 0.015 and for the high income earner it amounts to 0.0015.
It's a regressive tax. And payroll taxes, which are capped at a maximum each year, also impinge much more heavily on low income earners than wealthy people - without even considering that fact that many types of non-wage income don't attract payroll taxes at all.
I agree with your sentiments about the Afghan mission though.
murdock
3 years ago
Crossing the floor...
I'm going to be Stephen Harper's nightmare.
LOL this is what Emerson had to say before he told Mr Dithers (then the 'official opposition'),
"No thanks for that hard back bench, look there is a splinter."
This chatterbox is just as likely to waffle all over the political map.
As much as I detest Hedy Fry and all that she stands for, she is the most likely candidate in the riding to get re-elected.
For some reason the electorate there 'like' her?
DPL
3 years ago
Good article but The
Good article but The Ovaltine breakast must be tongue in cheek or something sure has changed since we frequented that part of town . You wrote "a luxurious breakfast at Hastings Street's infamous Ovaltine Café."
The guy sticks to his beliefs and I do hope he is a success in the election
Budd Campbell
3 years ago
What brain?
"He is proposing to put a tax on fuel that had already surged by nearly 200 per cent, therefore adding additional stress to individual Canadians and to the economy as a whole. So while I think it would have been appropriate to introduce a carbon tax when the liberals can to power in 1993 -- and oil was $20 a barrel -- to do it now would be a price shock that would impose additional economic stress and social inequity."
The brain, EDITED FOR SNIDE INSULTS -- TYEE MODERATOR.. if you read this carefully, you'll see Byers is right.
Timing is important in tax policy as in everything else. The carbon taxes proposed here, as you well know, differ substantially from those in Scandanavia where primary oil and gas producers pay them on everything they produce. They are exempted from Premier Gordon M. Campbell's carbon tax, and that's on the recommendation of Mark Jaccard and the 200+ other academics who just signed an open letter saying that:
a) carbon taxes and cap and trade are ultimately equivalent;
b) it must be a carbon tax, cap and trade is no good.
You begin to wonder what page these guys are on at any given time.
But politically, it doesn't matter. They've got Charlie Smith and the Georgia Straight drinking the cool aid and endorsing Hedy Fry, one more time.
realisticman
3 years ago
GWest
"...One of them earns 200K/annum and the other earns 20K.
Now look at the package of taxable goods each one 'has' to buy - clothes, dry goods, furniture, a car, furniture etc.
Lets assume that amounts to 6 K for each of them..."
It never amounts to the same figure for BOTH of them. Adding dining expenses and the higher value items bought by the higher earner too and the higher earner pays way more in GST; plus, as you mention, the higher earner does not receive the GST tax credit.