It's a disgrace!

That Canada would decide with a military despot who abducts a democratically elected leader of a country at night and prevents any open discussion of the issue says it all for me. Harper and his government are a disgrace and Peter Kent...well imagine that a journalist turned conservative politician is silent on the absence of free speech in a country we do business with.

We have seen the enemy

You and me.
We voted (or did not) for this. Did I mention that I quit penny stocks mining (as a project manager in field exploration in central B.C.in the early '70s?) These companies not only rape the small country they target, they fleece the boneheads who buy their stock.
They know exactly what they are doing - it ain't pretty but it is MONEY!

According to Dief the chief :

"There cannot be friendship and understanding between the continents if the Western world arrogantly assumes a monopoly of skill and wisdom or that we must try to make all other peoples conform to our way of thinking."
-John Diefenbaker, Saturday Night Magazine, November 22, 1958.

Ah - but in 2009, we still eat gold.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you

...for this excellent expose of the Canadian mining industry - government alliance that has for quite some time perpetrated the most despicable forms of exploitation. Mining practices are bad enough here in Canada! Look, for example, into the Prosperity Mining project near Williams Lake which would turn Fish Lake, a prized fishing hole home to thousands of trout and other aquatic species, into a toxic waste dump. And to boot, the Canadian environmental "assessment" refused to give the Tsilhqot'in First Nation an official seat at the table, despite the fact that they'd just won the most significant aboriginal title case in Canada to date.

Keep up the great work, Ashley and the Tyee! I'd love, love, love to see you follow up this story with a few more hard hitting reports on Canadian minign abroad. You want juicy, gory, ad-grabbing details? You got em. You want an issue that is long-past due for heated public debate and dramatic policy reform - here it is. It's stories like this that make the Tyee the best newspaper in Canada (and no, I don't own stock, work on staff, or sleep with any writers).

Calling like it is

This well presented article tells like it is. The greed of Canadian mining corporations, and their political toadies, show that they have absolutely no interest in the well being of the citizens of any country. They continue to rape and pillage like the conquistadors.

lest we forget

Recently, the Canadian government has played an active military role in these coup d'etats:

Taliban from Afghanistan

Aristide from Haiti

Revisionist Tripe with little basis in reality

Ms. Holly seems to live in a world that doesn't exist.

Her account of the Honduras situation is revisionist tripe.

That was no coup.

Zelaya was trying to rewrite the constitution illegally. Aided and abetted by Hugo Chavez.

It was a legitimate act authorized by the Supreme Court

Have a look at this Wall Street Journal article and read the facts - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124623220955866301.html

Honduras was defending its democracy.

With the full approval of the the Congress and the Supreme Court.

Zelaya's own party was investigating whether he was mentally unfit to serve.

Canada was right not to oppose this legitimate act.

"...most of the international community has condemned the coup"

Not really.

Who features prominently in this condemnation?

Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega and Hugo Chavez - those paragons of democracy.

Who has joined this objection? Hilary Clinton representing Obama who claims not to want to meddle in foreign countries' affairs.

She must be cringing at having to take this position.

So Ms. Holly, please get your facts straight.

BTW what else in your story is factually challenged?

Revisionism?

I think the Journal article was a little..... ummmm...... biased.

And.....

It doesn`t matter if the Federal liberals or Conservatives are in power,they are 2 sides of the same coin,that`s why it doesn`t make the news....

and don`t expect Canwest to report it,their bankrupt and looking for a bail-out from the feds.
What a proud bunch of Canadaians we are,we poison third world countries,ship billions of tonnes of coal to China from BC,but Campbells carbon(gas)will soothe your guilt,.....
Open pits full of cyanide in hondouras,open settling ponds in Alberta tar sands,millions of dead fish and birds,and just today I heard the investment guru Michael Campbell(gordo`s brother) and Michael Levy(who was against the minimum wage rising)talking up gold mining stock.

I guess the golden parachute pensions have to come from somewhere.

@ winbroker

From the WSJ article you link to:

The courts declared that it was a "constitutional referendum", which would have been illegal. Zelaya claims that he was carrying out a poll or "non-binding referendum", which would have been perfectly legal. From the BBC (emphasis mine):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123134.stm

Its official name was the "Encuesta de Opinión Pública Convocatoria a Asamblea Nacional Constituyente", where "encuesta" translates to "inquiry", "poll", or "survey".

http://www.latribuna.hn/web2.0/?p=13422

@winbroker

Not a Coup?

That's as silly as Gwynne Dyer's pronouncements from Kensington.

Ashley Holley happens to be in Honduras - YOU read the WSJ - Peter Kent is even stupider...

What else needs to be said?

A Coup is a coup is a coup.

Well put jimmy

A coup by legal means is still a coup

In recent B.C. history, the Tsawwassen First Nation was beguiled by gifts which in practical terms will mean that their protected lands would be sold by them for the commercial expansion of Deltaport.

Similarly, the well-named "Nisga'a Landholding Transaction Act" means, in my opinion, that Nisga'a protected lands -- and perhaps their sacred rivers -- will end up being sold and exploited for commercial and industrial use.

A coup by any other name such as Reconciliation is still a coup ... only more cruel. Specially designed to break trust.

These tactics for

These tactics for corporations to get their own way in foreign countries is outlined in Zeit Geist 2. Winbroker, do you really think that the western press would really prints the truth? They, more often than not, in cases like this, print misinformation.

Coup redux

Don't like the Wall Street Journal ME2?

Then try the Christian Science Monitor

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0702/p09s03-coop.html

"A 'coup' in Honduras? Nonsense.
Don't believe the myth. The arrest of President Zelaya represents the triumph of the rule of law.

Written by Octavio Snachez a former presidential adviser (2002-05) and minister of culture (2005-06) of the Republic of Honduras.

Thanks for supporting my point Jimmy.

Please understand, I am only commenting on the description of this event as a coup.

I'm a firm believer in the rule of law.

I'm not endorsing the strip mining of the countryside.

And if one hears a call for economic sanctions - beware.

Where were these people when economic sanctions were imposed on Iraq? On Cuba?

I've been to Cuba and Fidel's tyranny, rape and pillage as well as the sanctions has driven Cuba into the ground.

Do we want to turn Honduras into Cuba?

For the best analysis of the coup ...

go to the blog "Two Weeks Notice"

http://weeksnotice.blogspot.com/

It has effectively dealt with the arguments that this was in any way a "legal coup."

As for Cuba

The rape and pillage was in the Batista era...not Castr's

I saw a movie about the

I saw a movie about the military taking over Chile. seems they got some help from guess who? The US of A. Somebody's kid had disappered. The dad has some influence and finally made it into see some ambassador. He said, we are hear to guard our interests. The Canadian government believes the same. Companies that don't like the safety or health standards in this country, move to poorer countries to do just as they want. Mexico set up companies run from outside the country as there were no safety standards. It's done in lots of places . The so called developed countries should hang their collective heads in shame as the poorer countries do our dirty work. Heck we don't use asbestos but have no qualms selling it to some third world country and when the citizens end up with asbestosis, it doesn't hurt the Canadian bottom line.

If someone breaks the law..

... in a democracy they are charged, get access to council and have a trial. The trial is covered in the media and the people judge whether justice has been served.

In a military dictatorship you abduct a person, without a criminal charge, take them to another country and dump them there. Then you prevent them from returning, deny the media the right to report on events related and set yourself up as the leader of the country.

Hey, but it is not a coup? Earth calling Winbroker!

Did he or did he not

propose to change the constitution in the direction of adding more terms to the maximum of one he can now have in office?

Sorry , but in a capital D Democracy, that kind of change would come after THE PEOPLE had spontaneusly picked up discussion about it and conducted it for so long and on such a level, that you could be reasonably sure of a naturally evolved consensus. Pushy people are lame at preserving democracy anywhere. they just have to see things go their way, and then it kind of escalaltes. Damn busybodies!

Something worth reading

http://www.rightsaction.org/Alerts/Honduran_coup_alert19_070809.html

@ winbroker

According to your last link (CSM):

True.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0702/p09s03-coop.html

This is false, and is contradicted not just by the WSJ which you linked to previously ("While Honduran law allows for a constitutional rewrite, the power to open that door does not lie with the president. A constituent assembly can only be called through a national referendum approved by its Congress..."), but just about everything else I've read on the subject. There is absolutely nothing wrong with conducting an opinion poll. The issue is whether or not it was a "poll" (i.e. non-binding) or in fact a "referendum". The courts felt that it was the latter, which was illegal, and ordered Zelaya arrested (which may in itself have been illegal). In the end, we'll never know what it was, because it never went ahead.

Here are some far more informative links than what you've posted:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8124154.stm

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE55R0US20090628

"The consultation was ruled illegal"

In a supposed democracy. A non-binding poll is ruled illegal. Wow!

I find it very difficult to

I find it very difficult to connect what is going on in Honduras to what the Nisga'a is doing by getting rid of the collective land holding that was in place prior to their treaty, when they were under the Indian Act governing land set aside. People for years have talked about the need for individual ownership of band lands, and the owners will be paying tax on that land. If they decide to sell their little bit, they can do so, just like the rest of us who own land in fee simple. Do we begrudge the Nisga'a for entering the system we all have with regards to private land? Some of us actually read the Agreement in Principal plus the appendecies
and some of actually stood in front of the Standing Committee to show support of the agreement. I still support the Nisga'a. The Tsawassen managed to convicne Gordo to hand over some land taken from the agriculteral Land reserve with no requirement of follwing the standard regulations when ALR land is removed.

But just like an earlier poster, I'm way of the subject of Honduras ( but couldn't resist commenting on the story being spread about the Nisga'a )where a democratic government was pushed out by a military coupe, and it seems Canada is supporting the group who did the pushing. And to the benefit of some Canadian companies.

Honduras

I work with NGOs in Honduras and they report assassinations of civil society leaders since the coup. Many of them are funded by CIDA. The rural and urban community organizations, agricultural coops, labour movement, indigenous groups, are the ones fighting against the coup...and anyone who suggests it isnt a coup is on cloud cuckoo land...some of them dont support Zelaya but they all support a return to consitutional democratic rule...they are the ones organizing the protests and some of them are dying. It is a disgrace that the Government of Canada and the federal party leaders are not denouncing the coup in Honduras.

avebury

Before you jump to denunciations about your perceived conduct of your government should you not check with them first, to see if your supposition is founded? It seems that the federal government has done just what you say it's a disgrace that they did not. Sycophantic chorus included.

June 28, 2009 (11:00 p.m. EDT)
Office of the Minister of State of Foreign Affairs (Americas)
No. 184

Statement by Minister of State Kent on the

Situation in Honduras

"“Canada condemns the coup d'état that took place over the weekend in Honduras, and calls on all parties to show restraint and to seek a peaceful resolution to the present political crisis, which respects democratic norms and the rule of law, including the Honduran Constitution.

“Democratic governance is a central pillar of Canada’s enhanced engagement in the Americas, and we are seriously concerned by what has transpired in Honduras. ..."

Correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like a denunciation to me.

Please check your dates

On Saturday, July 4, at the impromptu meeting of the Organization of the American States, Canadian Minister of State of Foreign Affairs for the Americas Peter Kent suggested President Jose Manuel "Mel" Zelaya not return to Honduras.

Cute but incomplete!

" July 5 (Bloomberg) -- The Organization of American States suspended Honduras’s membership, opening the way for sanctions, as the Central American nation’s new government vowed to block attempts by Manuel Zelaya to return today after he was ousted as president on June 28.

In a vote minutes before midnight, diplomats and heads of state, including Argentina’s Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner and Paraguay’s Fernando Lugo, voted 33-0 to suspend Honduras. The new Honduran government earlier said it was withdrawing from the regional group.

Zelaya, 56, who originally planned to return to Honduras on July 2, delayed his trip until the OAS decision. While thousands have pledged to meet him at the airport today to support him, he may find little other backing after the armed forces, lawmakers and courts rallied behind interim President Roberto Micheletti. The new government says Zelaya will be arrested when he lands.

“I’m going to go back to my country because it’s important that peace is restored,” Zelaya, wearing a red tie over a white shirt, said after the vote.

Diplomats from Costa Rica, Jamaica and Canada tried to dissuade Zelaya from attempting an immediate return, citing safety concerns. Peter Kent, Canada’s minister of state of foreign affairs in charge of the Americas, said the “time is not right” yet."

Honduras has been suspended and sanctions are pending. Immediate sanctions will only hurt the people. The important word here that distinguishes the significant difference, is the word 'YET'.

Noted

And disagreed with.

Many seem to have forgotten Canada's record - pace Haiti - isn't very good.

Maybe we should send a regiment down to escort the duly elected president BACK to his own country.

We certainly weren't reluctant to use our power to get Aristide our of the country were we.

Peter Kent is an ass. Thank God he's no more than a junior minister.

His government is worse and the Liberals weren't any better.

The fact is that the right wing elites are hurting the people of Honduras - in much the same way that the right wing elites are hurting the people of Canada.

I hope you noticed the current level of unemployment for young people in this country....

Shame on Canada.

Yep

Delegated voted 33-0 to suspend Honduras...Canada then teamed up with Jamaice and Costa Rica to dilute the unanimity of that vote.

As I said before, Kent is an ass and Canada's behavior has been shameful.

As for ad hominem attacks on Tyee commenters, please look in the mirror.

erratum

Should be 'delegated' voted....

West

Canada did NOT team up with any countries to dilute anything and it voted, along with all, in a unanimous vote.

As for your 'Yep', we take that to mean that yes, you want Canada to go to war.

Your ad hominem comment is now repeated and directed at Peter Kent.

We presume you are following the successes of Stephen Harper at the G8 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/spector-vision/harpers-g8-hat-trick/article1211843/) and in the latest Angus Reid poll (AngusReid: Con 36% Lib 30% Ndp 16%).

I guess you have reason to be so upset and confused.

Keeping our world safe for "Free Enterprise"

Yes, Garth, when it comes to supporting coups, dictators, crooked elections, and some of the most corrupted governments on Earth, Canada has a long tradition of doing so in sucking up to US policy, particularly in Central and South America.

That's been good for business, of course, and I recall a quote in the Sun from a speech made by the then head of M&B (an Australian whose name I've forgotten), shortly after the CIA-engineered assassination in Chile of Allende and the military takeover by Pinochet.

"Now that Chile has a favourable economic climate", he said, "it presents an excellent opportunity for investment".

There is an irony.

An oppressive and murderous dictator who allows American business interests their unfettered operation is always preferable to a democratically elected leader who puts his people's interest first. Democracy to the folks in the Fortune 500 is defined only in term of unfettered corporate function. Lives matter less than corporations. That is sick.

Hmmm!

And now, in L'Aquila, the Prime Minister was forced to apologize to Michael Ignatieff after having attacked him for comments he NEVER made.

Clearly Pee Wee's staff is feeding him a never ending stack of whatever kind of mud they can dredge up for their 'master' to throw.

So determined is he to attack Ignatieff for not being 'Canadian' enough.

Sadly, the only thing this proves is that Pee Wee, who can't manage to get into the frame in time for a picture and turns the host into a joke at a Catholic funeral is more concerned with finding rocks to throw at his opponent than actually representing this country in a statesmanlike manner.'

Shame on Harper!

It still seems to me

that people are not seeing the fundamentals here. It is lack of decorum to push for one's own political longevity, when it means fudging the rules. I can understand some people got really mad. Why was it not a viable option to find a trustworthy fellow party member and throw support behind him or her? It looks as if at least there was some major hubris involved, thinking no one else would do, having to hang on to power, even if it undermined a carefully crafted constitution. The end does not justify the means if you're not a jesuit, and I don't see what our PM's fooling with breadcrumbs has to do with any of this.

That may well be true dorothy

But the quest for another term is the sine qua non of all so-called 'democratic' regimes is it not?

To thwart by coup is not just "fudging" the rules, in my view, it's throwing them out at the barrel of a rifle. No?

The particular subject of this story, moreover, is the action of one of Pee Wee's junior ministers - in that context, the culpability of Mr Harper and his henchmen, in one way or another including his manners and cultural (or religious) sensibility or lack thereof, seems not so far out of focus in that context.

I think Kent mis-spoke himself - the fact that Harper clearly did the same seems at least a subject of minor interest.

To me at least.

As to the ends/means test - I agree, and apply the test to our governments as rigorously as I can...

Maybe it was a viable option...

...if the people rejected any constitutional reform but that is not the point at all. A poll to see if the public had appetite for a poll is hardly the crisis that demands military intervention. Unless maybe you are the U.S.'s lapdog wanting to serve your masters>

And for what?

Gold,you can`t eat gold,wear it,drive it,cure diseaes with it(except gold fever)

Countries don`t even use the gold standard anymore,there isn`t enough gold on 10 planets earths to equal all the phoney paper printed.
What a conundrem,federal Fiberals,federal conmen or slippery Jack and then there`s dizzy Lizzy.
Heaven help us!

skywalker

Let's face it, "Mel" Zelaya hinted at reforms that would benefit the peasantry, and it panicked the powers that are sucking the country dry. So they cooked up this flimsy cover to get rid of him.

How many countries does that make now?

That the coup was universally condemned is an indicator of the level of distrust that the 'condemners' have of their own citizenry. They none of them want this kind of idea to gain any foothold within their respective countries, Harper included.

perhaps, but

"But the quest for another term is the sine qua non of all so-called 'democratic' regimes is it not?"

perhaps, but it seems to me that we are not questioning why this somewhat unusual provision was put into the constitution in the first place. It could be based on bad Karma from past history and there might be good reasons for it. And it does not answer why the same thing could not have been accomplished by finding another candidate with similar convictions. This would have avoided the upheaval, and so in my mind it stands reduced to this outgoing president basically expressing that no one else will do, and I have little patience with self-promotion at all costs. Obviously, so did not a few Hondurans. when people get riled enough, they get angry and disorderly. I do not think this leader acted terribly cleverly, unfortunately, if his intentions were not bad.

Some of the problems that country is facing have to do with the parameters you can find here:

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/country.php

I looked at the mid-life population for 1980, 1990, and 2009 for Honduras.

They are obviously hitting the brakes on procreation, but not enough to make up for the sharply reduced infant mortality rate.

There are other things wrong. Notably, they have asked the US to legalize coke in order to give the country some relief from the cartels. Fat chance, there is too much money in the stupid 'war on drugs'.

We can feel guilty if we must, but it serves little. The mess we are in now is more than any other single thing a result of these people with the bread, wafer, whatever, going everywhere in the world and shaming people into dismantling their methodologies for not overrunning their habitat. so maybe there is the connection you insist on.

"why this somewhat unusual provision was ...

... put into the constitution in the first place?"

I think the answer to that question is the American influence. It is the same in Venezuela. The constitutions were developed when the countries were given some freedoms but always just a little control would be to protect U.S. interests. You can't let a country you want to have economic dominion over get leaders who are in long enough to develop a following or to learn how to persuade the the masses so they see a vision that lets them control their own destiny. U.S foreign policy in fledgling democracies of developing countries always retains some control just in case. What can a politician do in four years? Once the gain some confidence at the job and maybe develop some backbone they are conveniently gone. Great for the U.S. Interests; bad for the masses.

dorothy, a reasoned voice

At last. As though the country, Canada, that is the farthest from Latin America, should send in troops to forcibly reinstate Zelaya, over and above the 32 other members of the OAS. Bearing in mind that Canadian troops would also be required to establish order and quell uprisings and any violence! The calls are for our troops to go in even while mediation talks, agreed to by both sides started yesterday in Costa Rica.

As the BBC reported:
"What has been the reaction in Honduras?

There have been regular demonstrations both for and against Mr Zelaya.

On 5 July, Mr Zelaya tried to fly back home but his plane was blocked from landing.

On the ground, clashes between troops loyal to the interim government and Zelaya supporters left at least one person dead.

An overnight curfew has been in force since the president was removed.

What has been the international reaction?

International condemnation was swift and near-unanimous, as countries moved to isolate the interim leadership.

The Organization of American States demanded Mr Zelaya's immediate reinstatement. It subsequently suspended Honduras from the grouping after the interim government failed to abide by a deadline to restore Mr Zelaya to power. ..."

Canada agreed, including Prime Minister Harper and Peter Kent, and is a signatory to the demand.

What shame?

I expect there will be numerous petitions

Landing on Pee Wee's desk in the morning to the effect that, because it's further from Toronto to Afghanistan than it is from Ottawa to Florida that we should get out of there post haste.

The simple fact of the matter is, as Ashley Holly points out in this article, that Peter Kent is an embarrassment.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to once again look at what the article says:

On Saturday, July 4, at the impromptu meeting of the Organization of the American States, Canadian Minister of State of Foreign Affairs for the Americas Peter Kent suggested President Jose Manuel "Mel" Zelaya not return to Honduras. It's an interesting stance for Canada to assume, considering that most of the international community has condemned the coup in Honduras.

Moreover, following violent clashes between the military police and demonstrators awaiting Zelaya's return this past Sunday, Kent held Zelaya responsible for the deaths of two demonstrators by the military government.

I'll repeat it one more time - shame on Kent and shame on Canada.

A reasoned voice.

This amazing contradictory statement came from the CanWest News Service.

"Until the military crawled under the fence of [Mr. Zelaya's home] and arrested him at gunpoint, those opposing him had been following the Honduran constitution and the democratic process," Kent said in an interview.

"So there is reason to believe that responsible individuals in the [current] government will recognize that an unacceptable line was crossed and that they must return to the democratic side."

How can people follow a constitution and democratic process and still have "crossed the line". It all sounds like trying to please the military coup organizers while not offending the other side too much. It is rather idiotic. A constitutional process that allows an abduction and exile n the dead of night without trial follows democratic process? But I guess I must be an unreasoned voice.

skywalker

untilˌ
preposition & conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned)

A smattering of understanding of the word 'until' renders any reader with a clear understanding of exactly when that proverbial line was crossed.

Much like that other word spoken by Peter Kent, 'yet', which Mr. Kent used regarding the return of Zelaya.

You're right Skywalker

Kent crossed the line - just like his boss does when he 'attacks' using some of the typical crap his staff hand him - like a statement from a UVic professor tarted up and attributed to his nemesis.

The point is that right wingers everywhere get along pretty well - but don't actually have the intellectual equipment nor the moral character required to be 'servants' of the people.

The 'unreason' is all on the other side - it isn't always that way - the left can be pretty thickheaded too - but lately, I think the right wingnuts have it in spades.

Poor analysis

Article appears somewhat biased, lacks perspective. Right from first sentence, Honduras is NOT a "tiny" country and with a population exceeding seven million people (and many Hondurans who live in New York and other places). While her points about mining have some validity (but the foreign exchange and the national labor benefits are significant), her political perspective seems to indicate somebody who hasn't adequately studied the political process of Honduras. As well, she (and many commentators) seem to have misunderstood remarks of Peter Kent, who was very wise to suggest strongly that ex-president Zelaya NOT return AT THAT TIME. Given the agitation and violence that was breaking out, Kent's advice was sound. Zelaya is as much responsible for the injuries and deaths as the military who did need to enforce order near the aeroport tarmac.
For some comentators to blame Gnrl. Romeo Orlando Vasquez because he is a graduate of the School of Americas is just silly. The general was obeying orders from civil authority. Really - think about Hugo Chavez and his bloody failed-golpe of 1992. Chavez did NOT study at SOAS - but maybe he should have! Honduras Presidente Micheletti has only temporarily closed a couple of tv stations - but Chavez is proposing closing hundreds. Well, Chavez' "Bolivarian Revolution" of 1998 came to halt when his political mentor Castro pointed out that Bolivar was criticized by Marx. So now, Chavez is uprooting all of Venezuela to establish a communist system a la Cuba. However, this incident in Honduras is showing the world more about Chavez-Castro hypocracy. Hondurans don't really need Chavez' cheap oil, but by Chavez withdrawing it - and making stupid, violent statements - you can be sure that Zelaya will not benefit. !!LIBERTAD!!

Libertad not.

What utter garbage! "Zelaya is as much responsible for the injuries and deaths as the military who did need to enforce order near the aeroport tarmac.". At what point does a military dictatorship get the authority to exile someone without a court hearing? In a democracy no less. The whole piece from libertad is propaganda from the pro-capitalist forces that object to any decisions by locals to influence their own destiny. My goodness we can't have the population make a decision on whether we want a leader for more than four years. The population is too stupid to make such a democratic determination? Zelaya was abducted! Gen. Vasquez and Michelleti are responsible and he is a puppet of U.S. corporate interests. They only closed a couple of TV stations? Right. Just the ones practicing free speech and showing independence.

Chavez is used as a smokescreen. It is completely irrelevant in this case and only proves how morally corrupt the supporters of the coup really are.

You really must think all Tyee readers are dumb. You are either free to make your own decisions or you are not. There is no such thing as partial freedom.

Skywalker

You're right - I understand that in China the government charges the relatives of executed prisoners for the cartridges used to execute them.

Typical blame the victim bullshit and Kent ought to be embarrassed - he once 'pretended' to the role of a serious journalist.

Once again, thanks to Ashley Holly and the Tyee for cutting through the crap and exposing the sleaze behind the coup.

Don’t know if you watch Bill Moyers or not – he interviewed a former Medical Insurance Co executive last night – if you missed it, I suspect you can get it from a PBS website.

The fundamental and pervasive nature of corporate dissembling is something all thinking citizens need to learn about and understand.

Liberty of Hondurans and of all of us - Yes!

No, not ALL Tyee readers are dumb, Ms/Mr Skywalker! I guess it is from your point of view (and most of the commentators) that what I have written is utter garbage. However rather than dwelling on what divides us, I prefer to focus on our shared vision, and if you do believe that there is no such thing as partial freedom, well, that is something! I too believe in the absolute freedom of the individual - free from cults and collectivization - and capitalism is one of the mechanisms to bring that about - a necessary step in human community development.

As a Canadian, you are probably aware that the assumptions of the Westminster parliamentary political system is viewed very warily by those who support republican democracy. Along with the separation of powers, often goes limits of reelection - especially so in Latin America. One doubts whether Zelaya would have even ventured this far into his referendum-madness if not for mentoring by Chavez.

Yes, Chavez matters in the geopolitics surrounding the Honduras recovery of democracy. Chavez and Castro both are commenting on the regional significance of President Micheletti's recovery of Honduras - and they don't like it! Well, Obama hasn't woken up to that quite yet, between his G8 biz and Ghana - but Clinton is clueing in to the implications, especially now that a vanguard of Congress Representives and Senators are delving into this matter.

- Liberty, Peace and Fraternity!

Libertad, you sound like a corporate shill.

If this is your view of a republican democracy then the term is a complete contradiction or an oxymoron. There is no democracy at the point of a gun. The military is not a democratic institution. The notion that the general's know best is ridiculous. You obviously want an impotent government for Honduras.

It matters not what Obama or Clinton do as they will do what is in the U.S.'s best interests not what is in the Honduran people's best interest. In any event those things are for the Honduran''s to decide and what better way to decide than by a vote. Even if it is by a vote on whether to hold a vote.

You must be afraid that Chavez has more sway with Hondurans than the elite who back the Junta. Too bad for you. That is your failure but it does not justify a coup. Unless Venezuela invades Honduras it is not a real threat. It is corporate paranoia.

Gwest is right. Peter Kent is an embarrassment to Canadians.

A Dose of Realism in Honduras

"The Honduran Supreme Court, as it is empowered to do under the constitution, ordered the army to arrest Zelaya after he began to carry out a referendum for a constitutional convention that the court, Congress and his own attorney general said was illegal."

I guess he thought that it was worth a shot. (No pun intended)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/10/AR2009071002937.html

As always pick and choose Realisticman

It was a referendum on whether to hold a referendum. Zelaya outsmarted the elites. Either way Hondurans will now know whose interests Congress serves.. There is a lot at stake all because of the coup. Courts are for avoiding confrontation and violence not abductions and forced exile. Those are fascist and communist methods.

Zelaya outsmarted the elites?

Zelaya, who had maybe 30% approval rating may not get an opportunity to inflate that into another - illegal term of office. A recent poll sees more Hondurans approving of the ouster than not.

As a wealthy rancher, Zelaya "saw the light" of socialistic demagoguery that worked for Chavez, but then Chavez has lots of oil to grease his platform of subversion and oligarchy.

Of course, there is a lot at stake - but the elites of Honduras are no really little different than the elites of anywhere else.

More importantly, while many have characterized the incident as a "coup" because of the military putting Zelaya on an aeroplane to Costa Rica, it is hardly an act of fascism, but rather an authorized, benevolent way to try to avoid bloodshed.

The problem for all the anti-Micheletti forces (and there are a lot of them) is continue to blather about it being a military coup, when in fact it was authorized by so many Honduran authorities.

Yes, this incident in Honduras will indeed reverberate far beyond the borders of the country.

Zelaya is welcome back in Honduras, to either stand trial on the 18 charges, or to plead for an amnesty from Congress.