Maybe if Harper was not such

Maybe if Harper was not such a Bully and was able to work with others we would not be in this mess.

He can not grasp the fact he has a minority and I guess he thought like the last term the liberals would back him again and since they plan on replacing Dion he could ram through what he wants. But it backfired.

As well he probably wants another election so the opposition look bad and he can try to get a majority. But Steve you have have 3 shots at getting a majority and a liberal party that was broke with a weak leader the last time and you could still not pull it off.

I say give the coalition a chance.

Harper too cute by half.

After Harper got his second minority government I heard comment that none of the other parties would force an election right away. Their coffers were empty and political machine exhausted. That was except for the Tories. So harper would have a free reign for a while and I guess he banked on it. If harper didn't think that the other three would have coffee once in a while and discuss how the "monster" could be controlled then he is not the brilliant strategist the Ottawa pundits claim repeatedly - "stupid" is a more accurate description. How stupid is it to back all three parties into a corner at the same time. How dumb is that?

Now the whining that the other three have been having discussion is just silly. Harper was playing a little too cute and he got himself in this mess. If the other three can provide a government by cooperating and they represent 60 + percent of the population it all sounds pretty democratic to me. In fact it is a lot more democratic that the Tories thinking they have a "mandate" with 37 % and governing as though they have a majority.

Just because the Tories have more money to run elections and "buy" votes doesn't make their actions right. Their whining is just so much self-righteous hog's slop.

Hypocrite?

Mair proclaimed quite publicly that he was going to vote Green so that they would get his $1.95. Now he says is it not an issue serious enough to provoke this situation. Actually I agree with him. But that is not the issue- the issue is the "I am going to govern as if I won a majority and I will gut the other parties while I am at it" attitude of Harper.

Quite a contrast to Obama, who did win a majority, and by American standards, a considerable mandate.

"Senate Democrats bent on revenge over apostate Democrat Joe Lieberman's over-the-top campaigning for McCain were dissuaded by Obama from stripping the Connecticut senator of his plum U.S. Senate committee posts.

And Obama is retreating from his campaign vow to roll back Bush's tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans, choosing instead to let them expire in 2011 as originally designed. These deft moves, along with keeping Bush appointee Robert Gates in charge of the Pentagon, have elicited support from GOP Senate solons like Mitch McConnell, Lamar Alexander and Richard Shelby, whose party, licking its wounds after a devastating defeat, was not expecting this solicitousness from a victor who earned such a sweeping electoral mandate."

Public Campaign Financing

Public funding of campaigns is not a "slush fund". It is a very effective way to reduce the corrupting influence of big money interests in the political system.

Politicians serve the people who pay for their campaigns. Would you rather have the politicians serving the public, or serving wealthy and corporate donors?

The Conservatives clearly prefer the latter.

It's all Stupid, But Harper was REALLY Stupid...

Yeah, this is all a big mess, and a coalition certainly won't help Canada at this time. The odds of all three players in this drama being able to agree on anything for more than a couple of months are slim and none. There's almost nothing good that can come out of this.

That being said, you can't let Harper off the hook. Whether you agree or disagree with public funding of political parties, his INTENT here was to bankrupt the opposition. He was effectively seeking to create a defacto one-party state. To me, that's a serious affront to democracy, if not criminal.

We need some new choices in this country. Moderate, centre-right ones that are interested in people's needs...not destroying their political opponents.

Public funding

You're joking, right?

The only way any party gets a payoff is when someone votes for that party - if you don't like funding anyone - just don't vote.

There is no compulsion in the matter - we aren't obligated to vote.

What really troubles me are tax credits for the wealthy few who have enough jingle in their jeans to shell out for their party - that sounds like the kind of elitism that Stephen Harper would support.

Personally I think the tax credits stuff favours the folks who already have too much power over political matters in this country.

Time for some change - past time.

Life is full of Risk

Since there is risk in anything we do, let's try the coalition. Can it be any worse than the past several years of Harper's right wing policies? Unlikely. What have Canadians got to lose? The worse that could happen is the coalition might fail. It happens in other countries all the time yet the world doesn't come to an end.

Indeed, the European system of multiple parties arose after Hitler and Mussolini were defeated. Never again would they risk the of total power. And so they designed governments to be based on coalitions.

A great article Rafe and like good writers everywhere, you have a clear point of view which allows the rest of us to respond by forming our own opinions.

It does so work!

Coalitions do work!
Many European nations have had nothing but coalition governments and most of them last full term too.
The advantage is that a voter does not have to hold nose to vote for the best of two poor choices! There will be a party representing his exact goals!
Each individual party gets an opportunity to join a coalition (yes even the greens), and inside that coalition they have to negotiate what to "give" in order to "get" what is important to them.
Another advantage is that backstabbing is like stabbing yourself, when you are member of said coalition.
All in all, our politicians could learn a lot if they were forced to participate in governing instead of only opposing it.
There will always be some parties that choose to reamin as opposition, simply because their platforms are so opposite to the ones that form the coalition, but as always they need to work on the next election!

Right on, leftofcentre!

"his INTENT here was to bankrupt the opposition. He was effectively seeking to create a defacto one-party state."

He figured that we were all too stupid to see through this farce. I say let the other three see if they can do it. We might just have the begining of a parliament that works for more than just those with "jingle in their pockets."

Vive le Coalition!

I've been thinking this coalition is a done deal, with only some details remaining to be finalized. I still think this is most likely, but I was surprised to see past Lib Party Pres. Stephen Ledrew interviewed on CTV today breaking ranks with the coalition movement to come out vociferously against it! He wants to leave Harper installed as PM.
http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/back-room-deal/#clip117276
He's even repeating some of the Con. talking points about the dangers of collaborating with separatists.
What's up with Ledrew, and why is he so public about his opposition, instead of
talking quietly behind the scenes?

At the very least, it suggests there's a definite split in Lib ranks about the wisdom of this move. But how large the Lib faction opposed to coalition is
is unknown. I suspect and I hope it's but a small % of influential Libs.

I laugh at the warnings of some (like Norman Spector) who fret this will cause untold anger among Cons. voters (just 37% of voters) and cause western alienation in spades, etc.
Come on! Who cares if Con supporters are peeved? I hope much of their anger will be directed where it belongs: at their own fearless, fuzzy-sweatered leader who foolishly provoked this dangerous development.
What about the anger of the 44%
who voted Lib or NDP, who have had more of Harper's machinations than they can stomach? Or the 54% who voted Lib/NDP/Bloc?

I'm a westerner who's gone from furious to very happy in the course of 1 week. On balance, I'd say we'll have an overall happier Canada with this coalition than before it!

Harper's relentless and tiresome war mongering was only worsening and angering more and more people. And at the worst time too, a time when conciliation and statesmanship was called for to deal with economic woes. He's gotta go, simple as that. He's not of the stuff adequate leaders are made of.

It's telling that almost all pundits, including Conservative/conservative ones are serving up a lot of blame for Harper for so recklessly imperiling his party.
Tory knives may soon be out for him for
causing his gov't's demise. An incompetent, fatal blunder, the likes of which have not been seen since Joe Clark's '79 demise.

Vive le Coalition!

Joe Clark's fatal blunder

[For those interested, a little history refresher on the sad tale of Joe Clark's
abbreviated Prime Ministership, from Wiki.
Interesting Federal (Quebec) Socreds were around back then, and Bob Rae played an important role, as he may be doing again in '08!
-If Harper's gov't falls imminently, he'll have the ignominious record for the shortest minority gov't in Cdn. history! Serves him right, I say]

[from Wiki.]:
During the 1979 election campaign, Clark had promised to cut taxes to stimulate the economy. However, once in office he adopted a budget designed to curb inflation by slowing economic activity, and also proposed an 18 cent per Imperial gallon tax on gasoline in order to reduce the budgetary deficit. Finance Minister John Crosbie touted the budget as "short term pain for long term gain." Though Clark had hoped this change in policy would work to his advantage, it actually earned him widespread animosity as a politician who could not keep his promises, even in such a short period.

Clark's refusal to work with the Socreds, combined with the 18 cent gas tax, led to the defeat of the government in the House of Commons in December 1979. NDP Finance Critic Bob Rae attached a rider to a budget bill declaring that "this House has lost confidence in the government." The five Socred MPs had demanded the tax revenues be allocated to Quebec and when that was turned down, they abstained, which ensured the vote's passage on a 139-133 margin.

Clark was criticized for his "inability to do math" in failing to predict the outcome, not only because he was a minority situation, but also because several members of his caucus would be absent for the crucial budget vote, as one was ill and two were stuck abroad on official business. The Liberals by contrast had assembled their entire caucus, save one, for the occasion.

Clark's government would last a total of 9 months less a day, as it was defeated in the 1980 election. As Clark's Finance Minister, John Crosbie famously described it in his own inimitable way: "Long enough to conceive, just not long enough to deliver."

Ahhh...Joe Clark's Government...

The punchline to that minority government is that when the Liberals switched gasoline to the metric system in 1981, they raised the price of gas by more than 24 cents a gallon!

...of course, it was only 6 cents a litre, so it sounded better at the time :-).

Anyhow, to compare Joe Clark's government to Harper's is a serious insult to a Prime Minister who was a good man and cared deeply for Canada. Sadly, the current crew in Ottawa couldn't lift Joe Clark's luggage.

Harper is Brilliant! get rid of him fast!!!

Most commentators seem to think Harper made some kind of error. I do not, he is trying to discredit the opposition, any and all opposition(including the public sector unions) so that the public does see what is actually in the economic statement. What little is there points to the Harper gov't using a worsening recession to disembowel gov't (massive program cuts starting Jan 27th), something that Harper consistently advocated for 20 years before becoming leader of the Conservatives.

This will happen while the public thinks that politicians who disagree are only looking after their narrow self interest. Lost confidence? We should all have lost respect for this gov't and therefore they should be dispatched from office as quickly as possible. Bring on the coalition as there is sufficient overlap in the moderate elements of their economic policies to govern Canada far better than the untrustworthy machiavellian government we have now.

Rafe Mair is out to lunch on

Rafe Mair is out to lunch on this one.

Harper has kicked the dog once too often , this time while he was down, and it has come back to bite him hard.
This guy is mentally unstable. He ignores the train wreck of an economy and viciously
goes after the opposition intent on destroying them financially. What a coward.
Now, after the crap has hit the fan he is back peddling furiously, trying to lie his way out of his lack of judgement. His own party is seething at his stupidity.
It's too late to fix this and Harper is going to get the ass kicking he so richly deserves.
By the way Rafe, you forgot to mention that the three coalition party's have a majority and that the NDP and Liberals would be the government supported by the BQ.

Moody isn't far off...

I'm quite sure that Harper's Plan B was for the opposition to form a coalition, knowing it would quickly collapse and force an election where he could win a majority.

That's why the first order of business here is for the Libs to PUBLICLY DUMP DION. Voters have rejected him, and he has no right to become PM. They need to replace him with a leader that has the support of the party, and who the public could see as voting for PM. Right now, the Ignatieff as leader with Rae as deputy combo could conceivably work. But it's not great. However, it could be enough to reach an election where the Harper tories are defeated and Harper is taken out as leader.

The choices here aren't particularly good. That might be why Harper has shown his extremist colours now.

I agree...

Rafe is out to lunch on this one.

North America and Europe are at a stage in history where they could actually take the opportunity to make sweeping progressive changes through out our economy and in social policy. Now is the time for the Liberals and NDP and Bloc to act and kick these criminals out of power...and keep them out of power.
What do they have to lose? Nothing but there chains.
Progressives have everything to gain on this one. The Conservative Party made a very bad strategic move and if the opposition parties do not seize on the opportunity to take advantage of it, they are not worth having in power anyway...as there collective judgment would be extremely poor and just plain stupid.

Harper gambled and lost

Harper, in a Campbellesque fashion tried to destroy what little democracy this country had left and he lost. There is a very dishonest assumption that Canadian democracy is nothing more than a part-time dictatorship. If we truly want to be democratic, we must agree that coalition governments are legitimate and the public have a say in legislation. Harper wants one man rule, but Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition may put forward an alternative to run Canada. I hope they win.

Joe Clark compared to Harper

Certainly I respect Joe Clark much more than I do Harper. I wish Clark had stayed with the merged party. His influence surely would have prodded the party from the right toward the center. Maybe if he'd been there his influence could have prevented Harper's ascension.
-That's quite a punchline about the clever Libs knowing how to sneak in a new gas tax, so as people would barely notice! Brilliant.
-As for Harper's "big error", it was certainly an error (a welcome error for the left) in that it's done in his gov't.

What an unerring demo of his true attack-dog colours though! Clobbering public sector unions, women, and the entire opposition by endangering their financial survival, all done in one fateful afternoon last week!
He succeeded brilliantly in unifying the opposition in a common mission to be rid of this dangerous menace once and for all (with luck)!

War Measures Act?

Harper could accuse the opposition parties of treason for not supporting the government in this time of crisis, and take a page from Pierre, declaring an "apprehended insurrection"............

Stephen Harper -- a "kinder, gentler" Robert Mugabe?

Rafe is Wrong

Respectfully - the old Socred doesn't get it.

Governments in Canada are still formed from the MPs elected to the House of Commons - before and after Balfour, Westminster and Repatriation.

The British parliamentary custom is still the same - but the third parties have been a far less significant factor than here. Even so, the Scottish assembly formed a coalition in 2007 (though with a proportional system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Scottish_Parliament_election

Besides, even Harper disagrees with Rafe since he offered to form a coalition with socialists and separatists to depose Martin - 9 Sept 2004 letter to then GovGen Clarkson.

Hoisting himself further up his own petard - he lied about the fixed election date, he lied about the banks and economy and now it seems he will face criminal charges for spying on the NDP.

Shameful scoundrel needs a spanking

A pox on all?

You may not like the game, Rafe, but it IS the only sandbox we have to play in.

Rafe Needs to Retract

Try to keep up with the tour - it's been hours since Harper retracted the poison pills he wanted to use to for his partisan pleasure.

Maybe Rafe couldn't deal with the Bloc, but Harper certainly had no problem :

http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/11/28/a-trip-down-minority-government-memory-lane/

... and here ...

http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/harper.html

Time to pry the power from the hypocrite's grasp.

Prorogue of Parliament coming?

Oh oh... CTV reporter Robert Fife says Cons. are considering not War Measures exactly, but may be plotting to prorogue Parliament this week, which means suspending rather than dissolving it, until "cooler heads" might prevail (good luck with that). They might shut down Parliament until they table a budget in January.

I suspect rather than cooling heads, this will only serve to enrage and further embolden the coming coalition, making them even more determined to oust this ugly bunch. Harper will no doubt continue to weaken.

Maybe Steve just wants to be able to send out Prime Ministerial Xmas cards one last time...But he may be in store for psychological slow torture as the coalition drumbeat grows ever louder until we reach January guillotine day - I mean January Budget Day - when he'll be officially drummed out, hopefully irretrievably!

Harper; the Pro-Rogue

that fits

confusing, or is that confused, mr. Mair?

“Thus we had a king and he was also King of England but in Ottawa he was the King of Canada with his prerogatives limited by Canadian law and custom.”

“It is a matter of custom in the absence of specific constitutional fiat. The custom in the U.K. has certainly changed to where no monarch would dare refuse a prime minister his election and I believe that's the custom now in Canada, though I admit this is inferential not stated.”

Does not click, for it is inherently illogical. First paragraph says our turf is our turf. Then we cannot, as is tried in the second paragraph, tie or infer, as you say, our interpretation of custom and common sense to what has gone on in Britain, eh?

But I actually think that much more than cherry-picking the law or constitution or mess of custom and tradition, on which Canadian civilisation rests, the most immediate target for voter wrath will be that Stephen Harper, considering the waters on which we are right now sailing, would have the incredible temerity of wasting time and energy on playing snide strategies. We, the people of Canada, expect him and his compadres to get on with the job they get paid for doing: Take care of our interests, both short and long term. Instead, they get into positioning and self-serving maneuvering, claiming a saving that is totally symbolic.

Now, they will obviously not be able to buy themselves into power any more than they would before they might have shot the economy of the opposition in the foot. So, I don’t think that is their direction at all. What I believe they are trying to do is no less that take down that pesky last vestige of democracy that we still own, and which prevents them from simply buying and running the country as just another corporation. They hope to reach that goal by effecting the death of a thousand cuts to democratic functionality, ridiculing, undermining and gouging chunks out of it wherever they go. We should see through this and refuse to play their game. I hope and believe Michelle Jean can sort it out and find Canada amongst the rabble, oops, rubble, to defend her home-grown understanding of law, order, and reason.

I'd say they already have the "pox"

Some of us on Vancouver Island have been joking about asking Gilles to include us in the breakaway - as long as sCrambell can be moved off the island. We have no idea how the "economics" would work - like do we get "equalization" payments? Most retirees here could use them. (including me if I could retire)
This is a bit of a "feel good" moment for those of us who think "That Idiot Harper" overstepped his ability: we are not particularly impressed with the other dingalings either, but what the hell, maybe a coelition of them might pay attention to what the people who supported them said on election day:
1)this election is a waste of money
2)we don't actually like any of you
3)if you can't "lend a hand" get out of the way
The near future looks rocky - hard slogging - if Ndp, Liberal and Bloc can put anything together good luck to them
If not we might get a few more years of the same disaster. Harper wants to sell government assets in this meltdown?
I do not have any qualifications in business nor "economics" but most of the junk I happen to own will not raise enough capital to pay for the sale signs at this point

CBC is reporting that there is a deal

Between the Libs and the NDP to take Harper out.

CBC News reporting a deal has been reached between the NDP and Liberals:

"NDP, Liberals reach deal to topple minority Tory government

Last Updated: Sunday, November 30, 2008 | 9:51 PM ET

CBC News

The NDP and Liberals have reached a deal to topple the minority Conservative government and take power themselves in a coalition, CBC News has learned.

A deal has been negotiated between NDP Leader Jack Layton and Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion that would see them form a coalition government for two and a half years, the CBC's Keith Boag reported, citing sources.

....

Harper Heave-ho

If true GWest, and the coalition is functional long enough to get us through Flaherty's neo-Liberal credit-economic-fiscal crisis, I nominate Jim Prentice for CPC leader.

OilbertaRedTory

It's a long way from home and dry but it's something - I think the deal is for a minimum of 2.5 years - Steve normally walks out on a job he doesn't like long before the 30 month point so I think you'll have a deal relative to a replacement.

I'll hunt for further details

Some interesting things here - with links

http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/

And fireworks!!!

Who will defend the welfare state?

Rafe is splitting hairs. The recession will be deep as anyone can remember and we can't have more poverty and its consequences than we already see. We need to increase and extend the social welfare net where it has been slashed by federal and provincial governments.

All three opposition parties have experience in either establishing and/or improving social programmes. Their coalition could easily sustain itself and even generate public support if the leaderships can agree on a united front to achieve certain concrete reforms over a limited time.

This approach would be a definite change from the unreasonable Tory strategy of disingenuous pragmatism leading to triumphalism. Trying to look better than other parties isn't good government; it isn't even good politics in the long term; it's sectarianism.

This "brinkmanship" has cost Stephen Harper a ton of credibility that will only be sustained by CanWest and BellGlobeCTV editorials and flacks who still have jobs because they refuse to look at the lack of leadership offered by the Tories in a very real crisis.

Perhaps Michaelle Jean may balk at a coalition. I wouldn't put it past Harper to go to court to stop her from allowing Dion or whoever to become coalition leader. The constitutional intrigue will be an opportunity to talk to our friends, neighbours, and workmates about how to save our jobs and our way of life from to bottom.

For me, the welfare state is what Canadians see as the most important institution that allows for equality of opportunity; it is the musculature that make our hard-won human rights available to those who aren't wealthy enough to exercise them.

We need to fight for those social programmes, and that fight will be easier with leaders who will at least pay lip service to them than Tories who want to smash it.

From Saturday's G & M

Louis Massicotte, an expert in governmental affairs who has advised the Chief Electoral Officer, said Friday that “there is an overwhelming case for an election not to be granted in the present circumstances.”

If the Conservative government is defeated the week after next, that will be during the first sittings of the new Parliament, he said.

“I have literally dozens of precedents on my side taken from British history and from Canadian history and the parliamentary history in the Canadian provinces,” Mr. Massicotte said. “They suggest that whenever a government is defeated during the first sittings of a new Parliament, the practice is that there will be no election.”

Ned Franks, a renowned Canadian constitutional expert, agrees. Both he and Mr. Massicotte pointed to the Ontario election of 1985 in which Frank Miller's Progressive Conservatives won a minority. That government quickly fell.

In that case, Liberal Leader David Peterson signed an agreement with the New Democratic Party assuring that the NDP would not defeat a Liberal government for two years. The Liberals were then permitted to take power.

Foiling the democratic process

It appears that Harper thought he could get away with taking advantage of circumstances, to further corrupt what passes for democracy in Canada, and lock his big bucks Conservatives into power, forever.

What a convenient prescription for the complete derailing of Canada's political process to the ruin of all, but Harper's wealthy backers.

It appears Harper manipulated the timing of our last election to avoid the rout of his fellow Neocons down south.

There were continuous big bucks attack ads on Dion, well before this election.

There were all manner of dirty tricks in the election of Conservative Gary Lunn in my riding of Saanich Gulf Islands.

These techniques are the successful attempts to thwart democracy we regularly see on the part of Steve's American Idols, the Republicans.

Clearly Harper, ex Free Trade lobbyist and would be dictator/despot/Yankee doodle, has shown there is no longer a place for him in Canada or it's politics.

Maybe the overlords can find this lick spittle a spot as Kim Campbell executive assistant's assistant or perhaps he could run a slave labor plantation in a place like Haiti.

It's horrible, really. Look

It's horrible, really. Look at us. Casting about for leadership and coming up empty. Our choice is between that arrogant elitist Harper who is fully on board with the continentalist agenda, and a coalition including the arrogant elitist Liberals who have sold out our country and are fully on board with the continentalist agenda. Give me a break!

One thing is certain. Like Obama, neither the Cons nor any coalition will deliver the change we seek. All of these are weak embodiments of genuine leadership.

Pardon me for being cynical. Only money reform will solve the challenges we are faced with and any politician who doesn't speak of it is useless.

The situation is bleak.

Prorogue or not.......

.....ultimately, the party that governs Canada does so "at the pleasure of the Queen". Through the GG, she can replace the governing party with another. It's only been THE CUSTOM that the party with the most seats gets to run things. But it is NOT the rule.

prognostication

Rafe is careful to qualify his opinions re the possibility for the success of a Coalition.

But Luke is not in the least hesitant in quite definitively observing :

"As for a federal coalition government, that hasn't happened since the "union" government of World War 1, over 90 years ago."

"And it ain't gonna happen today.. or tomorrow... or the next day."

It will be amusing to hold his feet to the fire on that one.

Coup! Act 1 & 2...

The Libs and NDP are willing to compromise their ideals and commingle with the other parties and have plotted this caper for a long time, as Jack Layton categorically told us yesterday. The NDP got together with the Bloc, he said, and they had the outline of the prank. The second act was written as a template and when the Conservatives presented their Economic and Fiscal Statement they just slotted it into the previously hatched plan, irregardless of what the Statement contained.

Even Will McMartin, here at the Tyee, attempted to analyze the Statement on November 28th to guess at what so incensed the opposition. This was, as we now know, a futile task since the horse had already bolted on cue regardless as to the reason why.

The posters and pundits that supported this subterfuge have also been following a script. Reading Jack Layton's conference call transcript we can all now clearly see how the propaganda was dictated to the troops, with all the key anti-Harper buttons highlighted for consistency and emphasis, in the prayerful dream that something might stick on the gullible public, and the Bloc, to maintain the momentum which would suck up the Liberals as it slithered onto the national stage.

This pre-cooked coup scripted by the party that garnered 18% of the vote in the last election (that means 82% didn't vote NDP), with the connivance of the party unwaveringly dedicated to break up the country gives a clear idea as to the type of governance and subterfuge we can anticipate if they do indeed pull the wool over our eyes and we tolerate Act 3.

Would the Conservatives like to work constructively with these people? I hope not but it's good to know how they play the game.

Manufacturing Dissent

Bringing in the Bloc to the DIPLIB fest is classic "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend". Pure tribalism.

There is no crisis in the country except in the minds of those yelping wolves who are running around trying to co-opt more mongrels into their camp so as to launch their attack. The LIB faction of the gang is in total disarray with a lame-duck leader who's already planning a different career. Within this party are three potentates plotting as to how to take over their own party, with the full knowledge that dirty tricks are recent history within this very same party.

The NDP know that their chances of ever forming the government are extremely slim and are therefore positively swooning over their chance to sit in really big chairs.

I wonder if either really have stopped to think of the fire they're playing with in Québec. You may not like the separatists but don't imagine that they're anything but very smart and calculate carefully.

The USA is Canada's bread and butter and responsible for most of the wealth in this Country. Millions of jobs rely on the US market and more wealth comes to Canada from the huge exports of energy. The US has just elected a very different President than before and they will have a completely new administration with an eagerly anticipated agenda.

There can be no question that our Ambassador and other diplomats are in contact with the Obama administration but it would be inappropriate for them to disclose in any detail their plans. It is therefore absolutely correct for the Canadian government to delay any radical economic plan until after the Obama administration is in place in January. Particularly since a gigantic part of their financial crisis involves vehicle construction that straddles the border!

Quite correctly the Conservatives have given themselves a week after the US inauguration as the date of their budget announcement.

There is no threat to Canada and the economy is performing better than any other G8 country - and we're not running a budget deficit.

Jobs are being lost in some sectors but social safety systems are fully funded for those eligible and in need.

Screams of panic are the bloodthirsty yelps of the coup planners. The constitution and parliamentary rules may be in their favour but their own disarray and fundamental ideological differences disqualify them from being a viable alternative, when the situation is in fact calm.

If the cabal do prevail it will be an absolute bonanza for us political junkies while we watch them scheme and roil and when the dust settles by next summer there will be some seriously wounded politicos to gloat over.

The future will reveal itself in due time

In the meantime, the only folks lying on the floor are Pee Wee and his advisors - and they are, as Jeff Simpson pointed out on Saturday, suffering from self-inflicted wounds.

How did he put it?

Oh Yeah, I remember:

Thursday's economic statement was an economic lame duck and a political boner. It revealed, among other things, the kind of Conservative Party that all but its core supporters suspected would eventually be outed: a group of ideologues, led by a Prime Minister who discarded his campaign sweater to reveal an economist with a tin heart and a politician who looks everywhere for political advantage.
Instead of trying to grow Conservative support, he appealed only to his party's core. Instead of acting in a statesmanlike fashion at a time of crisis, he opted to play politics, proposing to cancel public subsidies for parties, a move that would disproportionately benefit his.
Instead of reaching out, as leader of a minority government and as president-elect Barack Obama is doing by talking to moderate Republicans, he smacked his opponents in the chops. Instead of heeding the advice of economists everywhere that the economy needs stimulus, he got his Minister of Finance to present a budget that offered cutbacks and tiny surpluses that absolutely no one believes will be realized.

R man, R man...

“..trying to co-opt more mongrels into their camp so as to launch their attack. “

- mongrels??

If there is no crisis, no problem, if Stevie and his crew has a firm grip on it all, have adequate plans ready, are way ahead in getting in cahoots with the people to the South, etc., etc., why then do they not react with aloof dignity to the threat of being attempted taken down? Why is it not, to use an animal metaphor, which you are so fond of doing, water on a goose?

Instead, they jump right in there, do scurrilous things a la Watergate, cut a heel and clip a toe, pathetic damage control!

The fact remains: the first move they made on addressing the economy (are they also deluded, perhaps, in thinking there is a crisis?) was to make a financially completely symbolic, but politically explosive cut, guaranteed to take everyone’s attention away from their failure to get down to brass tacks and do their real job.

As I have said before, the air is rife with verbal trash, people are dumping mitote on us by the truckload, and your white knight paragons are right in there being down and very dirty indeed, with the rest.

I do not know your station in life, so I am not sure whether I should feel sorry for your blind confidence in these people, or I should count you taken care of as one of their…mongrels?

Some more pointed observations

Again, from Jeff Simpson in the G&M:

Conservative MPs, plus plenty of rank-and-file Conservatives, are angry and confused about the mess their government created in the past few days. Their fingers are pointing at two men: Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his chief of staff, Guy Giorno.

Since Mr. Harper makes all the important decisions in this government, the manifold miscalculations of Thursday's economic statement were his, aided by his chief of staff, a partisan brawler imported from the old Mike Harris government in Ontario.

Conservative MPs expect to hear criticism from supporters of other parties; they don't expect it from within their own ranks. But they've been getting an earful from Conservatives, who ask how this could have happened, who brought it on and how the government will extricate itself from possible parliamentary defeat?

The stunning prospect of defeat has had the government back-pedalling, contradicting itself and sending different messages since the badly received economic statement - all signs of unplanned retreat and internal disarray, unusual for a government that has prided itself on disciplined messaging.

Hung up on the Bloc

I normally like Rafe political comments unless he goes into Quebec or bloc ranting mode which he did once again. It seems to derail his otherwise sound political judgment.

Remember that Canadians would have had to contend with a majority Harper government if it had not been of the Bloc. The Bloc is not formally part of the coallition but will be supporting it. Keep it mind that they have to act responsably since they will have to go back to an election sooner or later. I would think that Québécois will toss them out if they don't act responsably. Personally I like the "statut paticulier" that this situation conveys. I suspect it greatly irritates Rafe. Vive la coallition anyway!

this is an example of when

this is an example of when democracy doesnt work....like communism, nice in theory, but it has its issues. canadians cant seem to make up their minds...maybe its because theres just not a real clear choice, but until there is, there will be no majority in this country, and this political bull will continue. this is not about "the people" this is not about "the economy", this is about politics, plain and simple. if it were about this economy, the liberals would look at the concessions the tories are making, and accept them, or pressure them until they were satisfied. in this country, you should be allowed to force an election if you truly dont support the government, but the notion of a coalition is ridiculous. if they actually had a good reason, i could see the GG consider a coalition, but it would have to be a damn good reason....this is not. true, harper did himself no favours here, but i believe the grits would be much wiser to either force an election and choose a new leader, or work with the tories to create a plan that benefits canadians. in the long run, it might benefit them more as well.

Here we are

The Tories have lost the confidence of the House with their strategy of using the crisis to attack political opponents instead of doing any actual governing.

Everyone in that House was elected so if Harper isn't up to the job they will find someone who is.

Like the last Parliament......

.....no one wants to be the first the force an election (except maybe the Harper - he being accustomed to breaking his own laws at will).

The fact that the Bloc is a separatist party is a red herring; the people of Quebec just want a party that represents their best interests, and that happens to be the Bloc.

Duceppe will cooperate with a coalition, because he has no reason not to, it being (as was noted on Cross Country Checkup) Christmas come early for Quebec and The Bloc.

when you play dirty...

... don't be surprised when it bites you in the ass. Harper is nasty and so fuelled by his desire to crush the opposition that it has blinded him to what he is supposed to be doing - building support to run a minority governement. The guy seems to have forgotten that he does not hold the balance of power and finally the other parties have had enough. Harper is a lousy politician - unable to make deals and compromises which is the way it works. He is not Prime Minister material - fuelled by his own petty ego and very narrow vision. Democracy is messy and while Mr. Harper (who would appear to favour a one party system) doesn't like it, he's going to have to live with it.

Most Canadians are not

Most Canadians are not Conservative. We don't seem to agree on the form our nonconservative tendencies take, whether it is more or less socialist or liberal, but we consistently repudiate the right at the polls. We don't want conservatives tinkering with our social policies or handling our economy.

There is enough agreement on fundamental issues of rights and social spending that a coalition government can work, at least to ensure that the policies which the majority of Canadian reject are not allowed.

The Proper Public Perspective

There are a lot of posts here already and I haven't read all of them, but I doubt anyone has commented on this point.

Voter participation was probably down once again in the recent election. I stopped voting in all elections some years ago, obviously not because of disinterest. I frequently ask others about their practice. Many tell me that they still vote but can't really explain why or for what. Most people also do not spend any time online discussing politics.

Regardless of what performance we next see from the circus in Ottawa, it seems to me that another election is not too far off. Is voter participation likely to go up?

If it continues to fall (as it ought to) how far must it fall before we start seriously discussing an alternative to our current chronically dysfunctional system of government?

Before the next election, we will again be exhorted by the press to do our duty and vote. The stock line is that if you don't vote then you can't complain about anything afterwards. In other words you have no voice in the system unless you cast a ballot - which really means that voting is the only voice you have.

We need to start defining a crucial concept, which I call the "engaged citizen", someone who is interested in participation, not the role of a passive consumer / taxpayer. There isn't one political party in Canada that is interested in seeing a nation of engaged citizens. Hence, none of them deserve our support.

NOT!

"You may not like the game, Rafe, but it IS the only sandbox we have to play in."

It is a sandbox to 'play' in because 'we the people' are willing to permit them to play.

ChrisB pointed out very well that the populace is growing polls tired. When burnout approaches, then the financial reality smacks us collectively in the face, perhaps then we will finally realize that Ottawa needs us far more than we need them.

This behaviour show it and the bonanza of energy directed by the MSM and others points out how dysfunctional our entire system has become.

Take away the money flow to Ottawa. Now.

Starting Jan 1 2009 not a penny should flow in tribute to this madness any more.

See how fast all of them smarten up.

Tautological Realities

hmmm .. let's see....

the Coalition is a bad thing ...
... because it would be composed of the NDP, Liberals and Bloc
... and therefore bad ...

... but a Coalition of Conservatives, Socialists and Separatists would have been good :

September 9, 2004

Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson,
C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General
Rideau Hall
1 Sussex Drive
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A1

Excellency,
As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister
to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government's program.
We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We
believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the
opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority.
Your attention to this matter is appreciated.
Sincerely,
Hon. Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P.
Leader of the Opposition
Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada
(with Layton and Duceppe as co-signers)

******

It's this kind of 'thinking' that results in cash-flow problems for some of our posters.

The Elephant In The Room...

This is not 1972 whereby the Liberals and the NDP formed a loose alliance when the Liberals were in a minority government situation.

The proposal here is for a Liberal/NDP coalition government. Again, Canadian political culture within the British parliamentary system is averse to coalitions. The last one was during World War 1.

But in the current scenario, the BQ will be the deciding and supporting factor.

The same I want, I want, I want for Quebec.... gimme, gimme, gimme for Quebec crowd.

Yuppers, the BQ are the proverbial elephant in the room in this scenario and Quebec would be the big winner.

Good for Canada some here say???

Still can't see it happening.

If Harper were an honourable man he ...

... would have asked for an election in Oct 2009 - as his own law promised.

... would have presented his plan for the looming economic crisis before the election :

---"For Canada's 1 1/2 trillion dollar economy, for the protection of the earnings, savings and the future opportunities of our 33 million people, we have a realistic, prudent and responsible plan."------
[from his victory speech]

... would have presented a partisan-free F.U., not the poison pill Flaherty tried stuffing down our throat.
[selling un-named assets in the worst market in a generation - fiscal idiocy! ]

.. would have worked to find common ground with opposition parties to make Parliament function, as he promised in his victory speech just a few weeks ago :

----" ... we will continue to respect the principle that government is accountable to the people as representatives in Parliament...This is a time for us to all put aside political differences and partisan considerations, and to work co-operatively for the benefit of Canada. We have shown that minority government can work, and at this time of global economic instability we owe it to Canadians to demonstrate this once again. " --------

But Harper has no honour. There is no reason for Parliament to have confidence in him or his government.

Prorogue = Delicious Schadenfreude at least!

The GG - Well, she may not be forced to by the letter of the rules, but I imagine the GG will follow precedent and grant assent to coalition, and not bow to Harper's demands for a new election just weeks after the last one - an election wasteful of money, and wasteful of valuable time politicians SHOULD be spending on governing, addressing our financial problems.
-I suspect Harper WILL try to postpone his death sentence by a desperate, last-ditch procedural tactic of proroguing Parliament.
Many voters, including me, will be p*ssed, no doubt, but there is a small sliver of silver lining...
-The SCHADENFREUDE of prorogue will be tasty!
With Parliament suspended till nearly Feb.,Harper will most likely continue to weaken,not recover as he hopes. The coalition parties' resolve will likely be strengthened by Harper's cowardly move to prorogue. I confess I'll enjoy seeing the wannabe-dictator-war-monger Harper get his comeuppence. Many voters will enjoy watching the once strutting Harper bow, sweat and squirm under his self-created January death sentence!

For 8 weeks, Harper will be getting it from all sides. Not only will Lib, NDP, Bloc, and Green voters be jubilantly counting off the days in the Harper "death watch". Tory knives will be out for him too, as he's done the unforgivable to them :Tories know Harper's to blame for their gov't's defeat. The party will be badly split in a sudden leadership civil war.

I'd much rather see the axe come down on Harper's neck sooner rather than later.
And a sooner Tory demise would be best for the country. By proroguing,Harper will only increase the antipathy toward him if he recklessly places the country in political and governmental limbo for 2 months, in the middle of an economic crisis. He'll only invite more opprobrium on him and his party, deservedly.

But if we ARE forced to wait till late January, at least the entertainment, optimistic anticipation, and superb schadenfreude in watching the Harper gang's hopeless plight will be some small consolation!

Herr Harper

Herr Harper is, always has been and always will be a nasty character. He is a Bushite to the core and what he and Flaherty (the finance minister of Mike (the flake) Harris did was purely ideologically driven and ideology that has been shown to be completely wrong in recent months.

Far worse than bundling election funds was trying to take the right to strike away from federal workers. He could then foist a big pay cut on them at contract time. Not only is that about the worst thing he could do in times of deflation, it would turn the public service against him even more than it is now. Heck, the press would get cabinet documents faster than cabinet ministers.

Harper thought he could issue a coup fresh out of the election. He was totally wrong. He needs a good kick in the ass and I hope he gets it.

"Arrogant grab for power"

On Saturday the Vancouver Sun editorial labeled a possible coalition of the opposition as an "arrogant grab for power."

How ironic to label such a coalition as an arrogant grab for power when Prime Minister Harper had done exactly that with his proposal to do away with the grant for each vote received! Under the guise of a move to save money, he attempted to destroy the opposition parties, knowing very well that their finances are in perilous shape. One of the Sun's own columnists called it an "ugly" move to ensure that the Conservatives would be the only party that could fight future elections.

Considering that the opposition parties represent 62% of the voters of Canada, is it not logical that they should be allowed to combine to form an alternative to a minority government that tries to govern as if it had a solid majority, instead of representing only 37% of voters?

When every vote was designated a vote of confidence, in the vain hope that the opposition would force an election, Harper finally ignored his own law about a four-year term and called a snap election. That move resulted in his getting far fewer votes than the last time, although many more seats, owing to the distribution of the votes. He does not by any stretch of the imagination represent the majority of Canadians!

Obviously the threat of a successful coalition forced Harper to withdraw the contentious legislation, and also to delay the vote on his economic policies - which as Jay Bryan, a Canwest News Service columnist, pointed out, is "a bizarre plan to avoid a deficit by putting the squeeze on Canada's economy." This move is counter to current economic thinking, where countries around the world are working to fight a recession by economic stimulus.

A balanced budget would be cold comfort indeed for people who have lost their jobs in the manufacturing, forestry, construction, tourist, and retail areas, just in time for Christmas! I remember the Great Depression, and have no wish to see our jobless and homeless riding the rails, or sleeping on the streets.

Who needs Ebenezer Scrooge when we have Prime Minister Harper? He tried to kick the crutches away from Tiny Tim with his refusal to stimulate the economy. A coalition of the opposition could not do worse than what the present government has proposed, and it may exceed our wildest hopes and actually help us to weather the economic disaster.

Frank...

Frank, see the ideology thing in my above post. What Canada needs now is a government that will govern without a preset dogma. The Liberals are the only party in Canada that have pragmatism as their platform. Harper is a neocon and Layton a state capitalist. Neither system has proven terribly successful. It is pretty obvious what needs to be done now and it is spend, spend and spend. Deficits are going to happen and taxes cannot be raised on anyone or anything.

The NDP is not going to form a government in this country. They can have significant influence like they had in the past and many of their (but not all) policies are actually right for the times we are in now. But the fact remains that unless the NDP can double its vote or better, it will always be a minor party.

The Liberals left Herr Harper with a full treasury and a fat contingency fund. That is what I call government success.

Wilfrid

I understand that but the thing is the Libs only got about 5% more of the vote than the NDP did. But the NDP is only getting 25% of the cabinet seats and no power over anything important.

I know the stuff about "its good for Canada" and I agree with that but I still think the NDP should demand some important portfolios.

Conservatives be gone.

For Canadians, the Conservatives have been wrong on almost every issue that has defined what Canadians believe in. On the questions of universal healthcare, and small "l" liberal community standards, the Tories have been swimming upstream. As a result they've spent 90% of so of the last century on the outside looking in. Those of us "of a certain age" remember the vicious lying fight they put up against universal health care.

Harper has "won" two minority governments. Despite an historic Liberal collapse in Quebec he was unable to win a majority. Why? Because Canadians are not ready to hand over our "social network" to the "tender care" of the Religious Right and the Reaganite "Trickle Down, Deregulate, Government is the enemy" crowd.

As in the USA, the "right" doesn't want government "leaner" it wants Government "gone." The US shows us the end game of that philosophy. Canadians know better.

Polls always show a majority of Canadians as being "center/left." Harper's hatred and disrespect of the opposition may have now created the "New Liberal Democratic Party" of Canada.

Thank you Mr. Harper, your disrespect is going to give Canadians the opportunity to elect, "Change we can believe in!"