Saying sorry for votes.

After a certain length of time, when all the victims are dead as well as the people who committed the "crime", sorry becomes nothing more than a way of getting votes and a way for some to benefit. It was 1914. Who is still alive from that time that can be held to account? The rest of us know, or should know the lesson of history.

Back in the 1930's people were deported for fighting for the destitute and unemployed during the depression. They were considered to be communists; immigration virtually came to standstill. Many went back to face persecution and death. Maybe someone will say sorry to them as well. But then the Prime Minister was a tory.

apologists all

We have become a nation of apologists!
This is a good example, why should we apologize because the powers that be enacted a law that by todays standards is considered wrong?
At the time is was the law and it was stupid of anyone to think that merely arriving in port here would change anything.
There have been many injustices done, if one looks at it by todays standards, and likely what is happening today may well be considered wrong later on this century?
All one can do is to govern the way that seem best at the time!
Hindsight is great, but one cannot undo history and trying to make amends is like saying: the law is only the law as long as it is popular!

Oh please

No it isn't. Everyone involved is dead. The past is a different country, what happened in 1914 is about as relevant now as asking Germany to apologize to Canada for gassing us at Ypres. Strangely, I don't ask every German tourist to do that because even more strangely, I don't hold them responsible.

Learning history is important, learning from history is even more so, but wallowing in self-pity because of some perceived historical injustice is pitiful.

Also, there is a big difference between the Maru and residential schools and the internment of Japanese-Canadians etc. Those were Canadian citizens. The passengers on the Maru were not.

If someone wants to worship foreigners who challenged Canada's right to make its own laws then fine but you aren't going to get any support from me. Because I happen to like democratic government and the idea that if the Americans or Indians don't like one of our laws they can't do anything about it. In fact one of the big problems I have with NAFTA is that its foreigners telling us we can't govern ourselves. What's next we change our laws if a planeload of Columbians arrives and says our drug laws are unjust? Maybe in 100 years someone will decide that's so, but who cares?

What happened to Japanese Canadians was wrong, they were citizens. Refusing to allow foreigners to come to Canada because of racism is wrong but only the racism part. Not allowing people to come to Canada is fine, we have the right to make that decision. No apology was necessary but I'm fine with an apology being made. However, I'm still not going to wear the ashes and sackcloth thing.

If people always live in the past their country will never move forward. Which explains the conditions in too many countries. There's enough problems today without re-inventing old ones.

"The state continues to do

"The state continues to do this by legislating and institutionalizing social discipline and exclusion. By shaping the population's productivity through the power to grant or withhold citizenship. By expropriating indigenous lands and resources. By the project of imperialist occupation and its racist civilizing presumptions. And through the protection of exploitative social and class relations."

I agree completely.

This is the crux of Harsha Walia's excellent argument. Let's not focus on the Komagata incident. Let's focus on the way that it places the government in relation to individuals...

And how is it possible to believe that more open borders (especially for refugees?) will allow things like
"Sharia Law" to somehow infiltrate our society? We need only follow the dictates of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and demand all who dwell here to do the same, to protect against that spectre.

And if, as somehow people fear, 'the barbarians' should indeed invade our dear country, and make the majority here, who are we to say that we have the monopoly on truth and freedom.

I know I hold my ignorences and prejudices unknown. I am imperfect, and I do not doubt that time will find fault with me, but I try to compensate by remaining open to the possibility of being wrong.

An apology should be an acknowledgement of fallibility, and that is why the Harper apologies have failed, because they did not come with an admission of ignorence, not just in the past but in the present... and a promise to examine today's behaviors for the mistakes that engendered yesterday's sorrows.

"The sins of the fathers..."

In countless societies throughout time, right up to the present, people have killed each other for wrongs they accuse one another of having perpetrated thousands of years ago.

It doesn't matter that the facts of these matters have long disappeared in the mists of time, or that the original protagonists are not around to explain their actions.

As inheritors of modern social / moral / political thought, we've come to believe (at least most of us have) that we've put the old Biblical injunction : "The sins of the fathers shall be laid upon the sons" to a deserved rest.

An example of this is the practice of Vendetta, now illegal, where the son is obligated to himself kill the killer of his father or other family member.

But even today that notion has a strong emotional pull - I myself feel the logic of it - but what overrides that urge is the sure knowledge that this inevitably leads to a societal lawlessness which justifies such things as "ethnic cleansings".

And so it was that as immigrants to this land, we've struggled to leave behind the hatreds we learned in our homelands. IMO, we've largely succeeded, and we've continuously tried to improve upon those successes, for which Canadians are rightly acclaimed.

And so it has been with First Nations as well, even though our pursuit of that goal has been deliberately hidden by the purely emotional rantings of FNs and their advocates.

They have succeeded, just as have other racially-oriented groups in other settings, in convincing the average public that Canada and Canadians have - right up to the present - been pursuing a deliberate program of "cultural genocide".

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary, and even more evidence that in large part, FNs have both wittingly and unwittingly been agents of their own misfortune.

In the present socio/political climate, trying to make that case only further clouds things when the inevitable charges of "racism" reverberate in righteous fury.

Things will begin to change, I think, when people begin to realise that "restoring the culure" really means "restoring the wealth", and that entitlement simply justifies acting only for their own best interests without any concern for the "decadent culture" around them, which mostly includes Suzuki and his buddies.

Luke Skywalker posted a link on another thread that's illuminating :

www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/st

Did anyone actually read the article?

The article makes the mistake of overly focusing on the apology. The real story, buried in the article, is that Canadians have not learned from this piece of history, including the commenters above.

Quote:
Also, there is a big difference between the Maru and residential schools and the internment of Japanese-Canadians etc. Those were Canadian citizens. The passengers on the Maru were not.

Frank, you missed the history lesson. The Indian passengers were //British subjects//, just like the Canadians at the time. The truth is that policy makers were trying their best to find clever ways to thwart Asian immigration while encouraging white Europeans, ignoring the fact that Indians were British subjects.

How does this apply today? Temporary Foreign Workers borrow money in their home countries to pay the broker fees to get jobs in Canada. The work permits are tied to a specific employer. The employers wield huge power in this relationship. It's not like a regular job where if employees aren't satisfied the can tell their boss to shove it and seek new work. The permit must be transferred to a new employer and employers are often unwilling to take on the paperwork. Employers have been known to charge unreasonable amounts for staff accommodation, demand overtime, or simply underpay. So, Canada wants these workers, but only on our own (indentured labour) terms. But as Dorothy says above, if they don't like it then they can just go home....to face the moneylenders. So much for Canada being a just country.

This is just one example of current immigration abuses. We may know some of the facts about our history, but clearly we haven't learned from them. Future apologies may not be expected or given, but certainly we'll be ashamed of our continued ignorance.

Apologize for what? They

Apologize for what? They were not Canadians. In a couple of years are we going to apologize to the Chinese who were picked up off the west coast of the Charlottes in rust buckets? The Japanese-Canadians and the Natives I have no problems with an official apology because our Government did that to it's own people. What Harper tried to do was a cheap stunt in getting ethnic votes.

Trent

Say what? Everyone in the British Empire had the right to call themselves Canadian in 1914? That'll be news to those that made up the "Canadian Corps" at the time. They didn't want to simply be part of the British Army, our government fought to make sure that we served as Canadians, not Brits.

If those demanding an apology because they weren't treated as Brits in the British Empire then demand an apology in London, not Ottawa.

Irregardless of our reasons, we had the right to do so.

It doesn't.

And what does this have to do with the Maru? How will an "official" apology in the House of Commons help?

Canada is not a just country. It never has been and never will be in my lifetime. I expect to hear of stories of injustice taking place here till I die.

Don't expect perfection, you'll be sorely disappointed. On the bright side maybe in 100 years your ancestors will be told they have to apologize for your actions or non-actions too.

"News about immigration visa

"News about immigration visa delays and restrictions; daily reports on racial profiling and no-fly lists; escalating workplace raids and deportations"

This is not something that happens only in Canada- it's pretty much standard procedure around the world. Only difference is, in few other countries would anyone bother to write about it or spark debate. Look at the bright side- at least we open up our real estate market to pretty much anyone on the planet who can afford to buy (rare in most other countries, or at least, not as damn easy).