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- Prem Gill is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
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Don't Count Out NDP
Campbell provides issues to attack this year.
NDP's James: Watch your green flank.
We are now less than a year from the next provincial election and if the polls are right, the NDP might just as well pack it in now. But elections don't work that way and it's often been said that when governments fall, the reason has much less to do with a strong opposition than on the government screwing up.
Back in 1983 when I was doing a talk show, it seemed obvious to me that in any election to come soon the NDP under Dave Barrett would whomp the Bill Bennett-led Socreds. I phoned the man closest to the premier, Bud Smith (who'd been my campaign manager in 1975 and 1979), and asked him if Bennett and he had lost their minds? Barrett and the NDP were shoo-ins!
Bud chuckled and told me of polling they had done and in question after question the public favoured Barrett over Bennett by a wide margin. Except on two points -- the need for financial restraint and employment. On both these points, the voters favoured Bennett and the Socreds. "If we call an election (which they did a few days later), what happens if the issues become 'restraint' and 'employment'?" Needless to say those were the issues and the much loved Barrett lost a near landslide to the unpopular Bill Bennett.
The lesson to be learned was well summed up by the late Nikita Khrushchev who said "never divide the bear skin until you have shot the bear."
NDP to do list
To become competitive, Carole James must do a number of things.
First she must concentrate ALL her resources on the winnable ridings. Which ones are those? Well, while past history will help, there are new constituencies for which there's no track record. There are old constituencies -- Kamloops, for example -- where popular MLAs are retiring, and safe seats that aren't so safe anymore. Another example is Delta, formerly safely Liberal, which has been assaulted by such things as the Deltaport scheme, the South Fraser Perimeter Road, potential damage to Burns Bog, loss of agricultural land and the "hot" transmission lines in Tsawwassen -- all this and a Liberal MLA who usually won't shut up but avoids constituency protests like the plague. Moreover, every election has its surprises and the NDP must make good guesses as to where they might be.
Secondly, James must have a single, coherent policy on contentious matters -- not one for one area with the same policy watered down in another. A good example is the Atlantic salmon fish farm issue. She wants support for a tough stand against fish farms in many constituencies but doesn't want to be too tough in areas where there are fish processing plants employing many natives. There can be an articulate common message that combines a policy condemning new farms, incentives for old farms to move, and offering help for shore workers who might be adversely affected.
Thirdly, James must develop an understandable and doable policy for what will probably be a full blown recession a year from now. Strangely, bad times often don't help the left because the right is often grudgingly seen by voters as better at managing unemployment crises. The left is best off when times are good and there is money to spare for social programs.
Environment, a local issue
Fourthly, the NDP leader must exploit the "environment" issue which, if done properly, can pay handsome electoral dividends. Gordon Campbell is getting great kudos from national writers like Jeffrey Simpson in the Globe and Mail; the invariable rule is that if anyone east of the Lakehead thinks the B.C. government is doing something right, they're probably not. When Campbell boasts of his statesmanship, it's reminiscent of Ralph Waldo Emerson's line: "The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted our spoons." In short, when the obeisant student of Milton Friedman and the Fraser Institute talks of his devotion to the environment and moves arm-in-arm with Arnold Schwarzenegger, it's spoon counting time.
I believe that the present public mood with respect to the environment has less to do with global warming than local projects. All over the province voters have seen how the Environmental Assessment Act is simply a complicated exercise of waiting until after the deal is done to do assessments, and this by a government process headed by an appointment of the premier. All who were affected by the Sea-To-Sky project, especially those opposed to the Eagleridge desecration, saw the Orwellian nature of the environmental "process" where solemn bureaucrats fulminating "newspeak," pencil in hand with deeply furrowed brows, went through the motions of assessing a done deal.
The Run of Rivers program, which gives private companies the ability to make buckets of money from messing up hundreds of rivers and streams, should be manna from heaven for the NDP. Scarcely a constituency outside the Lower Mainland and Greater Victoria will avoid this policy and the program is so obviously a travesty of environmental commitment that it provides a multi riding issue just waiting to be politically exploited.
The Green party factor
What about the Green Party? It lost a glorious opportunity five years ago when then-leader Adrian Carr dissed the report of the Electoral Reform Commission. Instead of saying, "It's not what we wanted but it's a hell of a lot better than the system we have and we'll support it," she had a fit and pledged her party would support the "no" side in the referendum. Because the vote was so close, had the Greens supported STV the issue almost certainly would have won the referendum. That would have meant that we'd now have STV and the Greens would be a shoo-in for half a dozen seats or more.
As it is, the Greens will help the Liberals by taking votes from the NDP. Jane Sterk, elected leader of the party at its 2007 annual meeting last October, promises to run candidates in every riding and to ensure that only the highest quality candidates are put forward. James will have to deal with this, how I don't know.
Damon Runyan famously said "the race is not always to the swift nor the contest to the strong -- but that's the way to bet." A betting person would want very long odds to bet on the NDP. But Gordon Campbell himself has provided a dimly lit route. The premier has become so arrogant, so dictatorial, so unpopular that if Carole James can offer a better, gentler way and if she properly exploits the feelings so many citizens have for environmental issues close to home, anything goes when the whistle blows, including exceptions to Mr. Runyan's betting axiom.
Related Tyee stories:
- NDP Needs Some Class!
Drifting party's lesson from byelections, BC polls: Fight for the less well-off. - Memo to NDP: Oppose!
Tsawwassen treaty another missed chance. - Did the Greens Put the BC Liberals Back in Office?
They may have, depending on estimates. Efforts renew to pursue an NDP-Green alliance.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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- ...while on the streets, pirates and ninjas put aside mutual animosity to join student protests
215
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Jeffrey J.
4 years ago
Take a Risk - Vote NDP
We've all seen the risk of voting Liberal. The rich are richer; the environment has suffered; the rule of law has retreated; greed has triumphed over conservation and ethics. Could BC any worse under the Opposition. It would be hard to imagine. After letting men rule societies for the past 100,000 years, it might be time to give testosterone a vacation, and let more women be our decision makers.
The evidence of how angry men operate with power demonstrates a direct correlation of overwhelming failure of social policy. If we are indeed a society of 'risk takers', its time for a change. I still recall the jeering that Claire Travena and Catherine Bell met from the Liberal election machine. The local media overwhelmingly supported the male candidates as strong, male figures ready to grapple with politics.
Yet citizens voted both women in. Followed by stunned silence and confusion by angry Liberal males. How could this have happened. How could a mere woman become elected over an aggressive man?
How indeed.
Great article Rafe.
Skywalker
4 years ago
Not holding my breath.
With the results of electoral redistribution there are not enough winnable seats for Carole James. Those marginal wins in 2005 are less likely considering were the NDP are in the polls today. Most issues the NDP has identified and where they hold the high ground still do not resonate with the average person. Nor has Carole James' leadership calmed the dissension within the party. Remember all seats now not held by the NDP must choose a woman candidate as party policy. That means mostly inexperienced candidates. They may be lucky.`
Campbell still holds much of the urban constituencies because that is where he has spent all the resources. The rural ridings are expendable for him. So unless he does something truly insidious and scandalous, unless Railgate comes to a conclusion I doubt Carole has a prayer. The NDP has not managed to expose the rampant dishonesty of the Campbell liberals.
southdeltawalker
4 years ago
South Delta..the times they are a changin...
Well many of us out here think we have the worst MLA ever.
MLA Val Roddick insults our intelligence and constantly embarrasses herself with her nonsensical ramblings.
Even Rafe has referred to her as "struck dumb".
Her latest words quoted by Vaughn Palmer when asked if she will be running again are:
"You'll know when I announce it, baby".
When i moved out here in 1998 there was a by-election, the papers stated that the Liberals could "run a penguin and it would be elected".
So we got Roddick.
Our community is under attack and i guess that's what happens when you are considered a Liberal safe seat. They seem to think that cause Roddick has been elected and re elected we all all "struck dumb'.
Nothing could be further from the truth. We have been pushed too far.
Consider what has happened out here:
-the Roberts Bank Port Development-most are opposed to this as it will vastly pollute the air and destroy the marine enviroment
-South Fraser Perimeter Road-will take away valuable farmland, destroy part of Burns Bog and turn the area into what is known as a "diesel death zone".
-the Treaty with the Tsawwassen First Nations, the first urban treaty is basically a P3 for the port development and will also turn valuable farmland into holding yards for storage.
-the greenhouses continue to put emissions into the air far above the GVRD levels recommended
-the power lines will cause who knows how much damage and the increased pollution from all the diesel traffic will become
"charged" from these lines and once breathed in-it stays
-the proposed "Southlands" development {Spetifore land}-this is the largest piece of non ALR land in Greater Vancouver. Century 21 is trying to sell this as a "green development". It is valuable habitat and farmland.
So far the local environmental organization, "Delta Recycling Society" headed up by the former Provincial Green candidate has bought into this and their garden is located on this land.
Also "Smart Growth BC" partnered with Century 21 to put on a series of presentations with Century 21.
- the recent removal of ALR land for a golf course development
I could go on but you get the picture. Roddick got elected with the lowest percentage of the vote of any MLA ,37%, in the last election.
Many lost with a bigger percentage.
So what will happen out here next election?
Who knows?
All I know is that what has happened out here is a cautionary tale of what happens when you are considered a "safe seat", have a useless MLA and powerful Government/Business interests want to push through developments that will destroy your community, pollute the air, kill wildlife, destroy habitat, pollute the ocean, take the land and don't give a dam about anything except for how much money can be made.
So can the folks in South Delta turn the tide and stop these developments?
Stay tuned, it's going to be a rocky ride.
realisticman
4 years ago
Jeffrey
Oh how quickly you forget.
G West
4 years ago
Things
As virtually every measure of the status of 80 - 90 percent of the British Columbia population show, things have never been worse in this province in the so-called modern (and post WW II) era.
Real income is stagnant as confirmed by multiple independent measures; child poverty and homelessness are rampant; the forest industry is in a shambles; housing in every major urban area is unaffordable; the health system - especially for seniors - is in crisis; higher education under the machinations of its incompetent minister is reeling; the assets of the province are being auctioned off - often to a 'single' bidder - to foreigners.
Even if the opposition were averagely incompetent they could come nowhere close to having turned this province into an upper class dominated jurisdiction to rival that of mid-Victorian England in the space of just over seven years.
We are now asked by an absent premier to 'believe' his latest developer dream about what HE has planned for the white elephant of BC Place.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West.
brian gough
4 years ago
2005 election bc fiberals 44%-ndp 40%
The public isn`t stupid,Gordon(the gargler)campbell has been a brutal dictater in good finacial times brought on by HIGH COMMODITY PRICES AND HOUSING STARTS!
The public sector knows after the olympics with billions in olympic debt exposed they will be frozen in wages for the forseeable future!
Another round of social cuts to health,children,and the needy, Raif your column on this item was woefully lacking!
Here`s what you forgot ---Our hospitals are a mess(seniors are furious)
Ferry riders and transit user are pissed off and more increase under the bunch are coming!
Everyone knows about run of river and even those who don`t care about the enviroment care about the MONEY(they know hydro is going through the roof under campbell)
Raw logs leaving by the boatload while local mills collaspse do to bc liberal forestry policies!
Gas tax --know one is buying it!--The tax is unnessecary (world oil prices have already given everyone a gas tax!)
Exemptions to the big polluters(and subsidies) while the little guy pays!-also it`s not revenue nuetrol,its a shift of money from poor to rich!
SCHOOL CLOSINGS--an endless list of election lies--I won`t sell bc rail-5000 long term care beds-surrey memorial hospital upgrade(delayed another 3 years!
Most importantly --arrogance,corruption--john les--virk-basi-fraser-oppal-ken dobell-BOARDS OF DIRECTORS! A shoe in re-election NOPE --Campbells finished !
seth
4 years ago
Make Telecom an Election issue
Heres a sure fire Liberal killer .
The BC Government's Green Plan requires BCHydro to replace all power meters with Smart Meters. By enhancing the data communication component of the Smart Meter, for almost no additional cost, Hydro could provide ultra high speed gigabit/sec internet access to all BC residences and businesses.
Virtually free HDTV, telephone, HDvideoconferencing, cellular, and ultra high speed internet would be available to all.
1000 times the speed of big telecom's steam age networks at 1 percent the cost.
Use this hugely enhanced BC 21st century BC telecom net to allow/encourage as many as possible provincial, municipal and federal government employees to telecommute (50% according to the US Government) and there goes the road traffic that justifies the billions in expenditures on the Gateway project. There goes the carbon tax. Vancouver becomes the world leader in this very green technology, just in time for the Olympic spotlight.
Since the BC Liberals have sold their oath of office to serve the public for big telecom campaign donations, what is technically, and economically possible is politically out of the question. The NDP by making it an election issue could make it happen.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Contrarian Point of View... #1
1983 Election
In 1979, the Socreds won by a 48% to 46% margin, a slim 2% spread and the highest vote percentage that the NDP has ever received.
In 1981, the Socred gov't had a 53% overall approval rating, the economy was booming, unemployment rates were in the 5% range but... BUT by the late fall of 1981, a 20% prime interest rate and double-digit inflation saw the bottom fall out of the BC economy.
During 1982 and 1983 BC witnessed a mini-depression, unemployment inching into the double-digit range, the lingering Socred dirty tricks scandal, etc.
Bennett brought in public sector wage restraint, 6% and 5% over two years, to curb inflationary government spending as a matter of public policy, which was naturally opposed by the BC Fed and public sector unions.
At the start of the 1983 campaign, it was almost a foregone conclusion that the charismatic Barrett would win over the lacklustre Bennett based upon then media reports. (public opinion polls were unlawful during an election under the Election Actat that time).
Half-way during the campaign, Barrett made a strategic mistake. While on a Cranbrook radio talk show and in response to a caller, for the first time Barrett stated that the NDP would scrap the "6 and 5" public sector wage restraints.
The political tide began to turn (in terms of middle-of-the road voters) as they begrudgingly accepted that "6 and 5" was a necessity during that inflationary era.
The final political outcome was 50% to 45%, a 5% spread, not much different than the 4% spread in 2005.
Kamloops
Kamloops has always been BC's bellweather riding in that it has always been held by the party winning the election. It's voting margin, percentage-wise, also typically mirrors the overall BC numbers.
Delta South
Comprises the communities of Tsawwassen and Ladner and is small "c" conservative in its political bent.
Deltaport has always been there (since 1968 and quadrupled in size in the early '80's) just like the high-voltage powerlines have always been there (since 1955).
The political impact of SFPR and Burns Bog would be, if any, on Delta North, not Delta South. In fact a majority of people in Delta South as well as Delta council wants the George Massey Tunnel twinned before the SFPR.
Due to the closures in Delta Hospital prior to 2005 and the then recall campaign of Delta South MLA (Val Roddick), Delta councillor Vicki Huntington, also a small "c" conservative, almost won in 2005 as an independent over the Liberal incumbent losing by a 37.5% to 33% margin with the NDP trailing a distant third.
For the NDP to win Delta South, they would have to sweep 70 out of 85 seats province-wide.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Contrarian Point of View... #2
Current Polling Trends
Typically, incumbent governments in BC always trail the opposition in opinion polls between elections. That was mostly the case during the '70's, '80's and 90's.
Even after the 2005 election, the NDP led by as much as 13% (Mustel). Over the last three years, however, the incumbent government has always led the opinion polls with the latest being Ipsos - 12% and Mustel - 18%.
That's unheard of in BC and likely due to the fact that the Liberals have taken over the key centre-ground of the political spectrum since 2005. Prior to that, the Liberals went on a right-wing tax-cutting and government cutting agenda, which almost cost them the 2005 election.
Without that middle-of-the-road voter no party can gain government or achieve government.
Winning an Election
In order for the NDP to win an election, there must be that "throw the bums" out mentality by the middle-of-the-road voter. It happened in '72 when WAC Bennett thought he was god and '91 when Vanderzalm/Johnston previously went on a so-con binge in conjunction with the previous Vander Zalm scandals. That Socred government imploded.
Unlike the latent anger over cutbacks between 2001 and 2005, I just don't see that "throw the bums out" mentality by the "middle-of-the-road voter".
The NDP also needs a pragmatic, moderate, somewhat neo-liberal leader akin to Roy Romanow of SK or Gary Doer of MB along with some of their moderate policies. (Eg. 1,000 MW of IPP power in MB while under the NDP... and the BC NDP??? Nada)
The SK and MB NDP are also seen as relatively successful managers while in governance, unlike the BC NDP and that's are hard stigma to overcome with the middle-of-the-road voter.
As a result, I don't think that the "middle-of the-road voter" sees the NDP as a government in waiting.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
You already have that in Carole James. If you think James is extreme tell me what policies those are.
I would say its impossible. People here are too right-wing and will blame the NDP for everything including why it rains.
And I don't believe there is a "middle of the road" voter. Its just right-wingers, left-wingers and the apathetic crowd.
monty
4 years ago
Recession coming sooner
Those of us who live on the lower mainland have only to drive around Richmond & other neighbourhoods to see high rise condos, built but unsold. The real estate industry is feeding us nonsense. Sales have slowed dramatically.
With regard to DeltaPort ( 1 cop on duty/no screening of containers) and the Gateway Project, MacLean's magazine says "BC hasn't grasped publicly the size and the affects the Pacific Gateway program is going to have on BC and North America. The projections about the depth of crime that's going to come just from that are absolutely staggering." (p.24 May 19issue BC World Crime Super Power--front cover story.) Do the folks in charge know about this?
Frank
4 years ago
realisticman
Oh how quickly you forget.
Still clinging to the delusion that Campbell turned the economy of Western Canada around before he even took office eh?
[INFLAMMATORY COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]
Frank
4 years ago
monty
11 of the top 20 crime-ridden cities in Canada are right here in BC now.
There's a Campbell legacy to be proud of.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Whether you see it or not, Carole James is not from the same moderate mold as Mike Harcourt, Dan Miller, Romanow, or Doer.
Do you think that Carole James would support the current Manitoba NDP budget?
1. Reduction of corporate income tax rate;
2. Elimination of corporate capital tax, two years earlier than planned;
3. Capital gains refund provision for mutual fund corporations;
4. Top personal income tax rate lower than Ontario or Quebec;
5. Community enterprise investment tax credit;
6. Book publishing tax credit;
7. Manufacturing investment tax credit;
8. Mineral exploration tax credit;
NOPE. In fact, unlike the Manitoba NDP, the BC NDP wants higher corporate taxes and other higher taxes for upper-middle/higher income earners.
There were also rumblings that the BC NDP wants to remove oil and natural gas exploration credits in the northeast - an industry that contributes around $10 billion to BC's economy every year. The same tax credits that were brought in by Dan Miller!
Do your think that Carole James would support the Manitoba NDP's strategy for 1,000 MW in IPP power for Manitoba Hydro?
NOPE.
And I don't believe there is a "middle of the road" voter. Its just right-wingers, left-wingers and the apathetic crowd.
Yes there are, the 20% of the electorate centre, also called "swing voters", while the rest of the electorate lie on either of the chicken's left or right wings.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke, you're spinning
So in other words the Manitoba budget is the middle of the western political spectrum and everyone else west of Moscow will be compared to it?
You're dodging the question, what policies of James do you find extreme?
So its fair to say then that Luke Skywalker says any political party that doesn't provide tax credits to the oil and natural gas sector and who hasn't ruled out higher taxes on the rich and the corporations is extreme.
Luke, all that shows is how extreme you are.
As for Manitoba, you're not exactly looking at the entire budget are you? Seem to be focusing on just the things right-wingers like yourself like.
You claim 20% of the electorate is swing voters and I assume you claim that 55% are right-wing and that that leaves 25% left-wing? Even if every so-called swing voter supported the NDP they still wouldn't gain a majority of the vote.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Pacific Gateway Program...
I know that Carole James called the Gateway Program, or more specifically, the twinning of the Port Mann Bridge "Dumb and Dumber". Does that show leaadership qualities?
So can I infer that the BC NDP is also now opposed the Pacific Gateway Program?
Perhaps Carole James can learn something from Nova Scotia NDP leader Darrell Dexter, likely forming the next Nova Scotia government, with his view of the Atlantic Gateway Program:
It is connected with what I said earlier about the markets in Asia,
Increasing our volume, means more jobs, a more robust economy and a larger share of the market that we established when this country was founded.
Halifax is the gateway to our nation and we must ensure that we exploit this position.
The simple challenge is to get on with the project.
That is why I have recently introduced a piece of legislation to establish a Gateway Secretariat to get to work on this important project.
http://www.ndpcaucus.ns.ca/speeches.asp?ID=7
Frank
4 years ago
Manitoba budget
For those interested in a more balanced look at a budget that Luke Skywalker believes involved nothing except tax cuts, here's the CBC's take
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/04/04/budget-2007-overview.html
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
It shows someone who doesn't believe places with sprawling freeways have better environments. Hardly extreme.
For those that think Carole needs to take a page from Mike Harris
I think they should look at the legacy of those cuts.
Frank
4 years ago
Darrell Dexter?
The BC Liberals aren't supporters of gov't funded child care, the NDP is.
Dexter apparently believes that Nova Scotians need more child care not less.
Frank
4 years ago
On the other hand
Mike Harris in Ontario wasn't a big fan of gov't funded childcare either. Nor was Campbell, Klein and oodles of other right-wingers including those on this forum.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Luke, all that shows is how extreme you are.
The Manitoba NDP is not extreme. I certainly applaud their economic efforts and that's why they are leading the opinion polls because they simply "get it"!
As for BC's natural gas tax credits/incentives, Vaughn Palmer is also not extreme from my perspective. Very good article from a couple of years back and self-explanatory!
That's net of the value of the credits, which tallied at about $250 million.
I would think that most people can "get that". :)
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=0b79f09f-2ad9-4254-be9b-7312a13e2560&p=2
Frank
4 years ago
Cuts to health
Campbell, Harris and Klein also have other similarities such as their view that public sector workers and especially health sector workers are overpaid.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
You don't "get it" Luke. Your understanding of Manitoba politics is even more shallow than mine.
Again, like Mike Harris and others on the extreme Right you believe that any party that doesn't support tax cuts for business and wealthy individuals is extreme which in my opinion says more about the extremism of the person voicing such beliefs.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
On a different thread you came out against gov't money going to people on welfare but here you're claiming that gov't handouts to business is a good thing.
You also claim that those who disagree with either of those policies are extremists.
Which makes you a big fan of Mike Harris since he also believed that giving money to poor people encouraged poverty and instead gov't money should be given to big corporations.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
But the Manitoba NDP is doing exactly that in governance... that is, reasonably laying the economic foundation for a more prosperous economy, which in turn will provide the revenue stream to government to pay for the social services that benefits society as a whole.
And I'm not talking about the extremism of Harris and his idiotic Common Sense Revolution or Campbell's extremism in his first term either.
Well, the Golden Ears Bridge and ~10 km
of connecting free-flow highways and the 7-lane Pitt River Bridge and interchange are also examples of much needed highway improvements. Even NDP MLA Mike Sather wants interchanges along BC-7 in Pitt Meadows (Harris Road for example).
It's all about balance... the balance of improving both needed highway and transit infrastructure. Just doing one and not doing the other just isn't practical.
Remember what I said?
That the minimum wage should be increased to between $9.50 - $10.00 an hour, that social assistance should be increased, and that social housing should be expanded. "Sharing Is Good" also quoted me on that and probably still remembers.
City Person
4 years ago
Source?
I would be interested to see your source for this figure, G West.
City Person
4 years ago
Tough Issue
The environment is a tough issue for the NDP. First, the unions have quashed any carbon tax as detrimental to auto worker jobs.
Second, while they may protest run of the river projects, they are not exactly coming up with real alternatives to produce more power or use less via conservation. Nor have they costed said items.
Third, their opposition to the Gateway project. What is their alternative and how will it sell to voters stuck in gridlock?
Fourth, social issues. The NDP has always said it has been an advocate of said issues. Just exactly do they plan to do, how much will they spend and where will they get the money?
Fifth, what can Carole James deliver to the average family with kids, car payments and a mortgage? This makes up the majority of voters How is she going to improve their lives? How much will it cost? Where will it come from? Will her policies affect property values?
Finally, unions. There is an impression that Glen Clark (with some justification) allowed the public sector unions too much influence in his government. How is Carole going to change this perception?
Tough questions that voters are going to ask.
brian gough
4 years ago
Campbell is out of his mind!
Campbell is so stupid,with the last surplus he could of started surrey memorial hospital-funded COMPLETELY the childrens hospital-He could of had ken dobell fall on his sword.
He could of apoligized as to john les and dobell--Just for once he could of conned bcers with a couple of billion dollars of social spending.
Campbell ego is so bloated that even his puny gestures to the social fabric of this province is done with the gargler KICKING and SCREAMING as he`s dragged to the table!
Gargler campbell could have owned the bc ectorate but his bloated ego got in his way,gor-doh went out on a limb and called his own play at the line of scimmage and got SACKED!
[EDITED. -MODERATOR.]
Here`s a list of new ridings the ndp will win in 2009
delta--three more vancouver island ridings--north burnaby--2 more surrey ridings (over the hospital and gas tax-where do you think all the truck and taxi drivers live?) --maple ridge(over run of river)--coquitlam(westwood)--chilliwak(john les)
I could name a couple more but that already gives the ndp 43 seats and a majority.
One more thing luke skywalker--stephan dion has handed harper a gift by just mentioning a carbon tax (80% of the federal liberal caucus want dion to step down,because their well aware of how the bc carbon tax has cooked gordon(lushwell) campbell)
One more thought luke skywalker-A little birdie told me campbell might pull the carbon tax because of how he`s sunk in the polls over it!---7 days left in the legislature and he hasn`t brought the tax bill forward yet!--but even if he pulls the gas tax it`s too late and his phoney green scheme will be exposed, he`s stuck between a rock and a hard place!
I love the bc fiberal death spiral-the greatest show on earth.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
You're defending the same policies of Mike Harris. And look at your posting of the Manitoba NDP budget "highlights" compared to CBC's view. Everything you listed is from a right-wing point of view. You never mentioned any of the social policies etc.
The Golden Ears bridge is being paid for by tolls. Nobody can claim a toll bridge is "much needed". If it was truly needed the gov't would build it and the public could use it.
And you're against that balance. You're pro-Right-wing policies and anti-Left-wing policies. How is that balanced? And you call Carole James, an extremist.
I remember you claiming that welfare rates in Manitoba were lower and that if we raised ours it would just attract poor people from everywhere in Canada, something you didn't want to see happen.
brian gough
4 years ago
nice touch frank
Also there is no transit proposed for the TOLLED golden ears bridge!
The reason --profits for the toll provider!
jimmy_laroux
4 years ago
Again with the MB neo-liberals
Luke Skywalker:
Wow. You lie shamelessly, shamelessly, and you get caught.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/05/05/PoorMagnet/
You continue to lie on this thread.
seth
4 years ago
our star wars friend
"The NDP also needs a pragmatic, moderate, somewhat neo-liberal leader akin to Roy Romanow of SK or Gary Doer of MB along with some of their moderate policies. (Eg. 1,000 MW of IPP power in MB while under the NDP... and the BC NDP??? Nada)"
To start a neo-liberal is the proper term for a neocon or fascist. Neocons like George Bush, Stephen Harper and Gordon Campbell are a lot closer to "neoliberals" than Gary Doer.
The Manitoba IPP's that you incessantly refer to are at a concept stage. Whether they go anywhere will depend on whether they can generate power at a lower cost to taxpayers than Manitoba Hydro. In BC, the IPP's are given 8.8 cents a Kilowatt/hr about double industry estimates of BCHydro's cost and about double what Gordo and his gang will pay you for surplus power from your starship. This is a gift to IPP's in exchange for campaign donations and their support of the neocon agenda. BC Liberal style campaign donations are illegal in Manitoba so there el Gordo and his minions would be put in jail.
When tuned to your favorite radio station Chicken W, you will hear ads from IPP's bragging off about how lucrative their power portfolio will be.
We can expect the Manitoba government will take a more "balanced" view of any IPP role since their thought processes are not clouded with greedy cravings for campaign lolly and future corporate directorships.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
The point I was trying to make is that the Manitoba NDP "get's it" when trying to foster an economic climate in order to pay for the social services. Under Carole James, the BC NDP seems to be back-sliding
in terms of that same economic climate to pay for these social services.
And so will the Port Mann bridge twin.
Furthermore, the existing cross-section of the Port Mann is sub-standard in terms of modern safety standards, ie. narrow lanes (~10.5-feet through span as opposed to typical 12-foot width), bare minimal median width and no shoulders.
What I said was that if BC all of a sudden raised its welfare rates by 50%, the highest in Canada by far, we would see the same problems that Harcourt witnessed under the NDP when he fired Smallwood, with ~77% of new out of province welfare applicants coming from outside Alberta.
Under new minister Joy McPhail, a new three month residency requirement was instituted and monthly welfare rates were cut by $43(?) per month.
Back to the topic. A new BC poll has been released by Innovative Research Group (don't recall them ever conducting a BC opinion poll but nevertheless):
Party Preference:
Liberal - 47%
NDP - 36%
Green - 12%
An 11% spread between the two main parties.
Strong Leadership:
Campbell - 43%
James - 11%
A 32% spread between the two leaders.
Party Core Support:
Liberal - 33%
NDP - 20%
Leaving 47% who don't identify themselves as either Liberal or NDP.
Possible but not likely and probably already built into existing party preference standings.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080519.BCPOLL19/TPStory/National
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Mnaitoba IPPs...
seth:
Nope. An IPP, through one of the largest wind farms in Canada, is currently producing and selling around 100 MW to Manitoba Hydro.
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/projects/wind_st_leon.shtml
And that same IPP developer is now working in conjunction with another corporate giant, Enbridge Inc.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2006/02/21/mb_wind-power20060221.html
Susan
4 years ago
Libs Rubber Stamp...
Another Environmental disaster that was rubber stamped by this Campbell regime, was the 'process' that accepted the proposal from RAV/Canada Line to built by excavating the canyon down Cambie without compensation to the community, and without even considering the devastating impacts on the people who live and work along the route.
This arrogant Premier needs to be reminded that 98% of all businesses in BC are Small Businesses - some 370,000 - employing over a million people. We have contributed more to the Liberal's piggy bank than any other sector.
The families all along his over budget vanity project the Canada Line have been betrayed and their life's work expropriated.
Small Independant Businesses should be cherished - not willfully destroyed for the profit of development and mega-projects. Families should not have to take their government to court to receive respect and full financial relief due to harm inflicted by the government's own hand.
Even in BC.
Fraser Valley Fellow
4 years ago
Don't Count Out NDP - a seriously group of nice (!!) people
Well, I have never been a Rafe Mair fan, either from his time as a Socred cabinet Minister or as a journalist. And even though I wish he could be right about the NDP winning the next provincial election, I have to say that Rafe is once again way off base.
There have been numerous opportunities for Carol James and the other NDP MLAs to take on the awful (!!) Liberal record on increased homelessness and poverty, appointing civil servants charged with serious criminal activities (like Basi and Virk), protecting their MLAs charged with criminal activity (i.e., John Les), creating policies that destroy the environment (like fish farms, off-shore oil exploration, building huge car bridges instead of supporting more public transit,) and ignoring public input around consultation on issues like 2-tier healthcare, etc.
What's the problem? It is difficult to tell but it would seem that the current group of NDP MLAs need some fiesty people like Moe Sihota, Joy MacPhail, Glen Clark and Dave Barrett to keep the Liberals' feet to the fire. (We clearly cannot expect CanWest journalists to do this.) It is true that Adrian Dix does this kind of work but he seems to be the only one.
The current group of NDP MLAs led by Ms. James is much too nice to be an effective opposition. This trait will, I'm afraid, keep the pro-corporate Liberals in power for at least another election.
G West
4 years ago
Luke Skywalker
How is anyone supposed to take anything you write seriously when you're still hung up on your fallacious idea of what 'neo-liberal' is?
Until you're willing to use recognized standardized definitions so that you are, in effect, speaking the same language as everyone else your posts are little more than comic relief.
Furthermore, your constant refusal to actually deal with the record of the Campbell party is very strange – habitually referring to other provincial administrations is a funny way to defend the record of the party that’s in power in British Columbia.
Just asking.
And remember,
neo-liberal = neo-conservative
End of story.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
politico
4 years ago
Electability
Without a doubt, if votes were based on an honest and thorough analysis of the Liberal track record the inevitable result would be electoral failure, unfortunately the rather recent abomination of political rhetoric known as "electability" will overcome this.
A complacent media will not put before the public the stark contrast that exists between the two parties, instead the focus will be on their similar records of incompetence.
It will be a simple matter of maintaining the Liberal government to stick handle us through a rough economic patch while putting the right face on the Olympics.
The narrative will not allow for us to return to the "Dark Decade" and although the Liberals are bad the NDP were worse.
The bottom line. The NDP could win the next election based on a strong campaign as Rafe suggests. But it will require a great deal of effort to shine the light on the hollow incompetence of the wealth transferring Liberals while successfully promoting the sustainable policies the NDP are forming for the next election.
It will take a much stronger commitment to communications and strategical execution than the NDP has managed to muster since the mid 90's.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Neo-Liberalism...
A reputable SFU political science professor, Stephen McBride:
B.Sc. (Econ.) (London)
M.A., Ph.D. (McMaster University)
specializes in political economy, comparative public policy, and Canadian politics.
http://www.sfu.ca/politics/faculty/full_time/mcgr.html
Dr. McBride authored a book entitled:
"Paradigm Shift: Globalization and the Canadian State", by Stephen McBride (Fernwood Publishing, 2005; $26.95)
In that book he states as follows:
Rae, Romanow, and Doer all led/lead New Democrat governments.
University of Winnipeg political science professor Joan Grace concerning Manitoba NDP Premier:
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070524_111541_5896
And British Labour leader Tony Blair has certainly been identified with neo-liberalism.
Frankly, I personally defer to the credentials of these professionals rather than some posters on the Tyee. ;) lol
jimmy_laroux
4 years ago
G West: I'm not sure that I
G West:
I'm not sure that I agree with
I have always understood the term "neo-liberal" to be describing an ideology/movement who's aims are privatisation of government services or businesses, deregulation, less government involvement in the economy generally, as well as free trade and less social spending. I've heard it used to describe the policies of several governments in South America in the eighties and nineties. I think neo-conservatism shares many of those aims (deregulation, privatisation, etc.), but is, in addition, associated with social conservatism, and aggressive foreign intervention to [sarcasm] "spread democracy" [/sarcasm].
In short, I think they are similar in some ways, but there are also some important differences.
Grumpy
4 years ago
A sad legacy.........
The Campbell years will be looked on by historians as one of the most evil and corrupt time in BC history.
The Liberals abetted by grossly ignorant supporters and helped by grossly inept population has turned BC into a wasteland. The billions spent for the Olympic games and all of its hangers-ons must be paid back. RAV/Canada Line is over $1 billion over budget; the Convention centre over $500 million over budget only add to this dismal picture.
When you dump enough of the taxpayer's and the 'banks' money's into the economy, of course it looks rosy, but it ain't.
The media have give Campbell a free ride and what was reported as major scandals with 'kitchen to kitchen' video coverage is all but ignored today.
BC Rail corruption case; fish-farm disaster; TransLink takeover by political cronies is but of the few scandals the media rarely remind us of.
In 2011, we must pay the piper and the Premier will be having a good time in Maui.
We live in an age of corporate culture, where the public are sen as rubes to be fleeced. The Campbell government hate the public, hate the poor, ante intelligence and are the ultimate Fascist government.
Now Campbell is so afraid of the truth he is trying to curb free speech. How far will the public take this? how long before someone tells James to 'leave or you will be pushed' out of being leader of the opposition.
In politics you don't have to be 10 to be elected, you can be a -5, when your opposition is a -10.
jimmy_laroux
4 years ago
And... we're back!
Luke Skywalker:
Answer this very, very simple question, if you can: What evidence have you that Gary Doer is a neo-liberal? Your answer on this thread:
http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/05/05/PoorMagnet/
as in your last post, was that a political scientist from SFU said it in a book you have not read. Oh, wait, it was also in a newsletter from the Fourth International which you quoted. You might want to take a read through this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi
Now please, try and think for yourself, if you are capable, and answer my question with evidence of your own rather than an appeal to authority.
[INFLAMMATORY COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
The point you were trying to make is that Campbell's policies are "middle of the road" regardless of their being identical to Make Harris' policies in Ontario as long as they are similar in any way to what the government of Manitoba does because they are the central political actors west of the Vistula.
Red-herring alert. Canada has never been richer in its history yet social services are not what they were even 10 years ago. The profits of the economic climate are not being spent on people, they are being spent on corporate welfare and tax cuts for the wealthy.
The Golden Ears bridge is being paid for by tolls.
And so will the Port Mann bridge twin.
And I don't think being able to make a drive over the bridge from Maple Ridge and back for $9 means it was absolutely necessary. Because many people can't afford to pay a $9 toll every day of their commute. (numbers from the Maple Ridge paper)
Exactly. I quoted you accurately. So how come corporate welfare doesn't attract the wrong sort of corporation?
Not to worry, they'll figure out how to vote Liberal on election day.
Possible but not likely and probably already built into existing party preference standings.
For sure not likely, not unless BC's population is going to become as worried about people as it is about the corporations and the wealthy. Don't hold your breath.
A professor that you said was wrong.
And the reason you said he was wrong was because he because he labelled Manning, Mike Harris, etc also as neo-liberals (funny you didn't put them in your list above when I've alerted you to that fact before).
And I personally prefer the word of western civilization over one Tyee poster.
seth
4 years ago
Manitoba'd bad wind problem
From [INFLAMMATORY COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.] Manitoba Hydro sources.
"In March 2007 Manitoba Hydro issued a Request for Proposals for the purchase of up to 300 MW of wind generated electricity. Deadline for proposals was July 17, 2007 ..
Manitoba Hydro is now reviewing and evaluating the proposals. ...."
19 test towers and no new projects out of 250 land agreements since the Mar 2006 99 MW installation. Hardly seems like a huge vote of confidence in Manitoba's IPP wind power prospects. Where are the calls for RFP's on Manitoba's run off the river projects? Can Manitoba Hydro be considered capable of handling these projects itself?
Interesting RFP's and evaluations by Manitoba Hydro in comparison to British Columbia's approval process. BC Hydro barred from the competing, no RFP's, school teacher Campbell's expert evaluation, campaign donations, then IPP license issuance.
Our [EDITED] friend is right Manitoba's NDP government does indeed appear to have a far superior IPP process. One that benefits the people not just the ruling parties campaign war chest and the incredibly profitable IPPs.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Woah... I don't think the BC Liberals after 2005 are anything close to the Mike Harris PC's during their entire tenure.
Rather after 2005... much similar in governance to the Bill Davis PC's or the Gary Doer New Democrats.
You mean like the Gary Doer New Democrats?
I mean really... if one didn't know, the NDP Manitoba budget of 2008 could have been a BC Liberal budget. Both are relatively similar in overall tone inclusive of corporate tax cuts/corporate capital tax cuts/lower marginal tax rates for upper end income earners.
Actually, most people utilizing the new Golden Ears Bridge on a regular basis will also own a transponder.
A one-way crossing by car? $2.85...
http://www.translink.bc.ca/goldenearsbridge/Tolling/Toll_Rates.asp
Furthermore travel time savings of 20 - 30 minutes in each direction will certainly save in gasoline costs as well as quality of life.
Road-pricing is nothing new - it was the case upto the mid-1960's on many Metro Vancouver crossings (Lions Gate, 2nd Narrows, Oak St. Bridge, Deas Island Tunnel, Queensborough Bridge).
What's wrong with that?
http://www.translink.bc.ca/goldenearsbridge/Project_Details/default.asp
Because while they also fit the neo-liberal template, they go even further and also fit the neo-conservative template.
And I'm sure that the politicos fitting the neo-conservative mold are also referred to in his other book:
"Not Working: State, Unemployment and Neo-conservatism in Canada (1992) which won the 1994 Smiley prize"
There is a difference between neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Manitoba IPPs Epilogue
The last time I looked Manitoba was relatively flat, no real mountain ranges and no "Run-of-River" opportunities. In fact, Manitoba Hydro does not have any R-o-R according to their website.
Manitoba Hydro has opted for the much more expensive per MWH wind-power for its IPPs.
BTW, BC Hydro was paying IPPs $58 MWh during the last year of the BC NDP government in 2001, virtually in the same ballpark range that BC Hydro is paying new IPPs today.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
I do
Your words, not mine.
A one-way crossing by car? $2.85...
The Maple Ridge paper said $9 roundtrip. You're saying it'll be $5.70. Either way, the bridge couldn't have been that necessary if people have to pay to use it.
Because while they also fit the neo-liberal template, they go even further and also fit the neo-conservative template.
That's not what your SFU professor said. Now who should I believe, him, or your view of what he meant? Or perhaps the thousands of others who refer to people like Campbell, Harris etc as being neo-liberals and who do not include social democrats in that grouping?
Whatever you call it, Campbell and Harris are the same. And since you support what you like to call "neo-liberals" like Campbell, then you must also support neo-liberals like Harris. Because they have the same policies.
jimmy_laroux
4 years ago
Harris and Campbell: separated at birth or what?!
Frank:
So true. It's remarkable how similarly they've governed. For example, Harris's (disastrous) privitisation of the 407 versus Campbell's attemped privatisation of the Coquihalla (and successful privatisation of BC Rail). Or Harris's pointless provocation of Ontario teachers and their "illegal" strike versus Campbell's pointless battle with BC teachers and their "illegal" strike. Or cutting social assistance upon coming to power. So on and so forth.
Golden Decade or Common Sense Revolution? Take your pick.
seth
4 years ago
Manitoba no hillss?
Odd that Manitoba Hydro's web site lists its Great Falls 130 mw operation as run of the river. It even gives you a run of the river definition.
Run of the River projects depend on river volumes and speed of flow not head. The Canadian shield north of lake Winnipeg has some significant drops and whitewater areas so much potential for sure. Unlike BC's site C, Manitoba Hydro is spending its resources on the much more economical damn the river projects.
From
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/10/30/BCHydro/
" ...Confer Consulting, another well respected energy forecaster....forecasts prove accurate, it means that B.C. ratepayers will be paying more than double the market price for the next two decades"
I know that almost 30 billion in IPP taxpayer payouts over the next few years starting at 88 per megawatt hour and inflating to 120 when compared to the almost zero taxpayer obligations at the 58 a megawatt rate from the sad last days of the Glen Clark regime is chump change to the Jedi Knights amongst us. To the great unwashed this represents at least a 50% near term increase in power bills.
It all makes Joey Smallwood's sellout of Newfoundland power into perpetuity look like a work of a financial genius in comparison the deals made by Gordon Campbell and his gang.
Skywalker
4 years ago
Manitoba and BC
Maybe it should also be remembered that Manitoba has a payroll tax to cover Medical Services. In BC Campbell jacked up MSP Premiums by 50% so he could give corporations and the very wealthy a tax cut.
Cherry picking one Manitoba Budget and comparing it to BC now or in the past is silly.
City Person
4 years ago
Policy
I notice that no poster here has addressed my questions regarding policy.
Policy is what wins elections because in my experience, voters are not stupid. What voters want from an opposition party is a real alternative policy that they can present and cost out. So far Carole James has failed to do that in the last election or the next. I see a lot of "Campbell is Lucifer" on their website and a call to raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour but that is it.
It is their fatal flaw, too.
Fact is, policy is mostly decided by the civil service and in the unlikely event that Carole James forms a government, few or any of the policy of the present government will be changed.
G West
4 years ago
City Person - you were looking for my source
You were looking for the source of that figure.
I actually gave Campbell the benefit of the doubt - the actual fact is that:
"The poorest 94 per cent of Canadians own three per cent of the wealth in Canada."
You'll have to buy Mel Hurtig's book to get the other details - I'm not your gopher.
Here's the title:
The Truth about Canada by Mel Hurtig
If you take the trouble to read it, you'll also find out the following:
At 214 doctors per 100,000 we are in 54th place in the world…A 2007 poll revealed that over 2 million Canadians have tried but failed to find a family doctor during the previous year…Canada now has about a third fewer doctors per population than other OECD countries.
Total per capita health spending in the US is almost two and a half times the OECD average. In Canada it is one and a quarter times the OECD average.
Canada has the fourth highest obesity rate out of the 30 OECD countries.
Canada’s overall environmental performance is far behind other OECD countries with a rank of 28th out of 30.
In a February 2005 study comparing 141 countries, Canada ranked a horrendous 126th in reducing our pollution.
Canada, with 0.5% of the world’s population emits 2% of humanity’s greenhouse gas emissions… 46% of Canadian industrial greenhouse emissions in 2002 were attributed to exports.
The Canadian industrial average is 3.8% of revenues spent on research and development. For the energy industry it’s 0.75%. For the oil and gas sector it’s 0.36%.
[More to follow]
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Manitoba Hydro Revisted
seth:
Ahhhh, missed that one... but a wee bit different than BC R-o-Rs, which utilize narrow river channels/flows.
Great Falls was constructed in 1924 across Winnipeg River, a distance of almost 1/2 km. Great project but also would be very expensive to construct today and only something that BC Hydro could handle if we had rivers that wide in BC and if it was even cost effective.
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/corporate/facilities/gs_great_falls.pdf
Based upon 130 MW capacity, the cost of construction per MW today would likely be exorbitant. Probably why Manitoba Hydro has elected to go with IPP wind power as a relatively much cheaper alternative.
Again, under the last fiscal year of the NDP ending 2001, BC Hydro was paying IPPs $58 MWh.
From the Tyee:
Hmmmm....
Makes sense as prices rise over the term of the contract.
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/10/30/BCHydro/
45 years later?
When in 2001 BC Hydro was paying IPPs $58 MWh?
I wonder what BC Hydro was paying 45 years earlier circa 1961?
I'd bet a MWh figure in the magnitude of something ten times less that.
G West
4 years ago
I don't care what policy is if the result is Campbell
Here's some more inconvenient facts from Hurtig's book:
In 1989, 15.1% of children in this country were living in poverty. By 2006, that percentage had grown to 17.7% or almost 1.2 million children.
In 2006, Canada’s poverty rate was worse than 18 other OECD countries.
In one month in 2006, 753,458 Canadians obtained food from a food bank; 41% were children.
More than 4 in 10 First Nations children are in need of basic dental care…Diabetes is 3 to 5 times more common than the Canadian average and tuberculosis is 8 to 10 times more common… Aboriginal people are about 3% of Canada’s population, but they make up about 20% of all prison inmates…58% of Natives living on reserve aged 20 to 24 have not finished high school.
In social spending as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product, Canada is in 25th place out of 30.
In most western European countries low-paid jobs are between 8% and 12% of the total; in Canada they make up 21% of all jobs.
During the first half of 2007, Canada’s private sector dropped some 90,000 jobs, the largest decline in over a decade and a half.
In the five years before the Free Trade Agreement came into effect in 1989, employment in Canada grew at an average annual rate of 2.9%. In the five years from 2001 to 2005, it grew at only an annual average rate of 1.84%.
Corporate profits: in 1992 before taxes they were 4.7% of GDP. In 2006 they were up to 13.9% of GDP, the highest in history…Since 1990, the average after inflation increase in hourly earnings until 2006 was only 10 cents.
In January 2007 the top 100 Canadian CEOs made between $2.87 million and $74.82 million. Meanwhile, the average Canadian worker earned about $38,000 a year and the average person working for a minimum wage made $15,931 a year.
By 2005 the highest 20% of Canadian families owned 69.2% of all net worth… The poorest 40% owned only 2.4%.
In 2005, over $22.3 billion of foreign controlled corporate profits left Canada, mostly for the US.
politico
4 years ago
Winning Policies
Tax raw logs
Free education
Create affordable housing
Legalize and grow hemp
Decriminalize drugs
revoke TILMA
End of shore oil and gas
Promote energy conservation and alternate generation
No uranium mining, no nuclear power, no nuclear waste underground containment
Recognize Vancouver Island as independent nation (hey where did that come from)
City Person
4 years ago
Politico
Politico, those are good ideas. Why not present them to the NDP as a platform to run on? Just be sure you cost them out.
G West
4 years ago
Please try to stay on topic Luke Skywalker
Manitoba is NOT the subject of this - or the other thread onto which you heaped bushels of irrelevant information.
I welcome respectful, relevant and on-topic comments to my posts at Tyee. Those who try to change the subject rather than deal with it will be ignored.
G West
Skywalker
4 years ago
Policy? Anything but Campbell!
People hardly vote based on policy. They vote against something. At the rate Campbell is going there will be enough to vote against. It will be an accumulation of every nasty thing he has done that people will remember. Some will remember his unilateral dismantling of union contract. Some will remember the increses in fees at every turn. Some will remember BC Rail, increases in BC Hydro and the sell-off of our rivers. It will be one thing that gets them angry and then when enough have had enough you'll see an end to the dictator and all is minions.
All Carole James has to do is come out will all guns blazing at every nasty thing he has done, say in a way that people remember and say what she will do that clearly spells out that she won't do what Campbell has done. In fact if she gave a list of the things she will undo or repeal in the fist session she is the Premier, shee might have a chance. As long as she stays away from those feel-good issue that really don't get votes.
City Person
4 years ago
Ummmm
G West, I don't know where you can arrive at the above number from the data you quote from Hurtig's latest book. Specifically, where does Mel Hurtig say this? What page?
G West
4 years ago
As I said City Person
Buy the book - I'm not your gopher. The book is carefully researched and copiously referenced.
If I thought you really cared I know you'd buy the book and educate yourself - on the contrary – and I say this without prejudice - I find your response to virtually everyone on this and other stories where you've commented is trite, flippant, disrespectful and, frankly, a waste of time.
I invite respectful comments to my posts at Tyee. I respond to reasonable questions and I support my claims with references when queried.
I've done that.
I sincerely doubt you have the book at hand so the page reference would be useless to you anyway. If you do have the book on your shelves, I congratulate you - now you should get busy and read it.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
no1important
4 years ago
The NDP needs a third party
The NDP needs a third party on the right to split the vote to get in. The right wing Green Party is not 'there' yet.
Sadly El Gordo will win again as with federal politics the sheeple complain and whine but when it comes down to it do nothing....
City Person
4 years ago
Thanks, G West
I see you are over your daily limit again, Garth, and I really admire your persistence.
But Carole James stands about as much chance of winning the next election as I have building an igloo in the Sahara that won't melt. I have had listened to NDPers claim victory, they would have won every election since I started voting and they have only one three. Not one NDP premier has ever succeed in getting re-elected.
Remember what I write here a year from now. Without a real platform to run on, Carole James stands a snowball's chance in hades of being premier. People who filled the trough in the Clark years still remember people such as yourself who fed from it and are not going to let it happen again.
You are not going to win the next election. You lost the last one which where any idiot could have beat Campbell but Carole pulled defeat from the jaws of victory.
I saw all the NDPers wailing in delight of victory last time around and they haven't learned a darned thing from their loss last time.
Mark these words: Campbell will win a third term.
IndyJones
4 years ago
Carole James
The opposition NDP seem to be happy to simply put their feet up and collect their paychecks. They may be nice people, as Fraser Valley Fellow has suggested, but they sure are not effective. The Campbell government needs to be chased and held accountable for all their corrupt practices. This is not happening.
The average person in BC cannot afford yet another four-year term of the Liberals. However, it's obvious that the NDP cannot prove to the electorate that they are truly a government in waiting. They seem incapable of mustering voter anger, and there is lots of that out there these days. Do the NDP have any kind of coherent strategy?
I disagree with you Raif. I don't think the current group of NDP have a hope of replacing the Campbell government, even if the mother-of-all Liberal scandals presented itself. The NDP are not ready for office.
For the NDP to gain credibility with British Columbians, they could start by replacing Carole James. She was ineffective as a school trustee in Victoria, and so she is on the provincial stage. In my opinion, BC is in crisis politically. Next election, what does one do? There are no real viable alternatives for the greedy, grasping people we have in government now. And the Liberals know it.
brian gough
4 years ago
auther griffiths to run for gordo
The annoucement next week --another liberal mistake--another big business promoter in the campbell goverment --what riding?
Well he`s white that rules out many ridings!
I`m guessing chilliwak--the north shore ridings are safe,It would be foolish to drop him in a riding that he does not relate to him like delta.
Any guesses--Where does he live now?--answeres please
Frank
4 years ago
City Person
This would be why no one responded to your post. They read this first paragraph about how you think we have unionized auto sector jobs in BC preventing Carole James from supporting carbon taxes and decided to ignore the rest of your post as probably being more of the same ignorance about the world?
But since you asked...
You want an alternative to conservation? Why? What's wrong with the idea of conserving some energy?
As for run-of-river its too bad you guys on the Right can't think up a way of producing power without wrecking our rivers. Perhaps you know where we can get a second planet earth after we've wrecked this one?
I would say the price of gas will take care of the congestion problem wouldn't you? Or don't you believe a higher price will deter use?
I imagine they'll get the money from the same place as Campbell gets the money he hands over to business, from taxes.
I'd like to hear what Campbell has delivered. Regardless, the NDP will I'm sure put in policies providing people with a better safety net. This will improve people's lives in the way that its nice to be able to take your kid to an emergency ward and actually have a doctor take a look at her. Just as its nice to have a school in your own neighbourhood that has actual teachers, librarians, special needs assistants etc, you know, things Campbell doesn't believe in.
Another red herring. Anyone who doesn't hold the Liberals up to the same standard when it comes to their very close partnership with business groups will never be satisfied with any answer.
As if. You guys on the Right have never asked your Socreds or Liberals a single question, they have your guaranteed support even if Mother Theresa led the NDP.
brian gough
4 years ago
A year is a lifetime in politics
That poll in the globe and mail done by the "innovative research group" is a little suspect to me considering their office is on howe street, I couldn`t find any detailed tables on their methodoligy.
Never the less its getting closer, 11 points --Mustel at 19 points --ipsos at 12 points--1 point a month and the ndp are in.
People aren`t better off now then they were a decade ago so campbell spin won`t work!
Cknw has been hard pressed lately to find any callers that are happy with gordoh!
Have you noticed lately that the monday morning quarteback show on monday--and the cutting ledge on friday that the guests--NORMAN SPECTOR-BILL TIELMAN--VAUGHN PALMER-KEITH BALDREY,have been talking longer and longer each week?
Well I have noticed it,apparently they can`t find any callers that are happy with the gargler campbell and the bc fiberals!
Corruption with ken dobell and john les -oppal-basi-virk--fraser--Icbc--and hydro and ferries-THAT WILL BE THEIR DOWNFALL!
Frank
4 years ago
CP
So why'd you change your handle? Forget the password?
simonfraser
4 years ago
Carole who?
Carole who?
Frank
4 years ago
Indy Jones
The NDP almost always loses but its not the NDP that is to blame or who suffers. Its the people of BC.
For 60 years BCers have been saying there is no alternative to the Socred/Liberals and then whine about how hurtful their policies are.
Well the last time I checked there is no law against those same BCers creating their own alternative to the Socreds and the NDP. But they don't, that's either apathy or because they like right-wing governance.
When people try to blame their political choices for 60 years on the NDP all it tells me is people don't want to look in the mirror.
brian gough
4 years ago
city person what you smoking?
Short and sweet--campbell hasn`t improved anyones life except the rich !
I am in my 40s and know hundreds of middle class people and no one is complimenting campbell
People aren`t fools campbell didn`t cause commodities to go up--but his forestry policy has cost 20.000 mortgage paying jobs!
Housing prices went up all over north america -and now their going down!
The spin is over--taxes haven`t been lowered they have been replaced with separate water bill,and user fees
He has made it an art form of puting 10 dollars in one pocket while taking 20 out of the other-
Wages aren`t up I made 28 dollars an hour in 1998 with the union --their making less money today--construction labours made 14 to 16 an hour in 1995 now they make 16 to 20 dollars an hour-big deal--inflation has cosumed that raise and more!
minimum wage has been frozen with these clowns
People are worse off now than before.
but perhaps CP you were unemployable before but with companies desperate for slaves your now working--congrats
G West
4 years ago
No you don't city person
I have no daily limits - I do have limited patience - and you've stretched it beyond belief.
I have no idea why people vote against their own best interests - I only know they do.
Furthermore I object to and will report as offensive this comment of yours':
One thing about your remark I do agree with and that is that certain people will do, and say, anything in their desperation to hang onto power.
I invite respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
City Person
4 years ago
How
I am all for conservation. Just tell me
where and how much it will cost and how you will make up for the lost revenue.
From whom, how much and what affect will these taxes have on the economy?
Personal attacks are a poor reflection. The forest industry is a sunset industry and has been for 25 years. Try another career.
Maybe, Frank, they might adjust their policy so they can get elected and do their good acts.
By what index? Wages are up and unemployment down. If you chop down trees for a living, your a worse off. If you are a software engineer, you are better off. See the connection?
Yup.
simonfraser
4 years ago
the ndp will keep their 30%
the ndp will keep their 30% of the electorate, as they always have (except for '01) b/c the public sector unions have already started their bombardment on the democratic system by spending their members' dues on propaganda, in many cases against their wishes.
that will result in about 30-35 seats to the libs 50-55. british columbians may be a little slow, but they're not stupid enough to hand over gov't to the ndp just before the olympics, and opposing gateway is about the dumbest political move i've ever seen!
brian gough
4 years ago
I don`t cut trees
Wages aren`t up --their down
wages are flat in most industies.
Constuction booms come and go.
Public sector wages are down,inflation has consumed their 10 % raise
Campbell hasn`t created any high tech jobs!
90% of the the new jobs are temporary construction jobs!
I have seen it before --the housing boom is a housing trickle,inventories are piling up! A pending housing disaster in kelowna,speculaters fleeing!
when the boom goes pop there will be so many unemployed it will make your head spin!
It won`t gradualy slow it will go fast!
The wealth established people are spending is equity --you hear me cp EQUITY--everyone and their dog has borrowed against equity to keep up!--At least the home buyers of the 70s 80s 90s have!
cp take off your blinders and look around!
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/04/04/b
That's last year's (2007) Manitoba budget, not this years (2008)!
brian gough
4 years ago
simon fraser -you wrong
The last election the ndp 40% of the vote--the liberals 44%
That was with one encumbent running for the ndp!
77 liberal encumbents ran with full coffers! 31 liberals went down.
The ndp merely need to pick up 2% of the liberal vote and its a tie!
[EDITED -MODERATOR.]
To say public sector union members won`t gordo elected --what a stretch!
the public sector knows after the olympic bills come in they will be frozen forever!
[EDITED. -MODERATOR.]
Frank
4 years ago
City Person
What lost revenue? Are you saying there's no cost to energy generation? Have you discovered something you want to share with the rest of the world?
From whom, how much and what affect will these taxes have on the economy?
Off the bat? Same people it comes from now and in the same amounts.
The NDP almost always loses but its not the NDP that is to blame or who suffers.
Maybe, Frank, they might adjust their policy so they can get elected and do their good acts.
Let's look at that statement logically, if the NDP jettison the good things they want to do and instead become as heartless as the Liberals they'll get elected. And why would anyone vote for them if they were the same as the Liberals?
Fact is, the people of BC prefer heartlessness. There's a good argument to be made that the existence of the NDP at least keeps voter turnout a bit above 50% and keeps us from being ridiculed as a one party state like Alberta.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
Same Doer government wasn't it? Why, was last year's polling numbers really bad for old Gary and it was only after this year's budget that his numbers improved?
Last year's budget shows the NDP had more on their minds than the list you provided earlier where nothing but tax cuts was mentioned in your "highlights".
Frank
4 years ago
City Person
By the way, you never did explain how it is that Carole James is deathly afraid of the big bad unionized BC auto sector. Now that's an ideological rant I expect will be on par with something by Rich Coleman or Kevin Krueger. So don't disappoint.
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
Elliot, I thought you had been banned again?
Glad to see you back buddy, I've missed your loony rants and I've had to use snert as my dartboard in your absence.
And I'm happy to see your keyboard still has no shift key there batman.
City Person
4 years ago
Figures Don't Lie
But Liars will figure. This is a good one:
That is because they only had two members after their 2001 drubbing. Conversely, you could say that the NDP had excellent continuity because 50% of their sitting members ran.
City Person
4 years ago
Really?
Ever heard of Entertainment Associates? Besides, government is not very good at creating jobs. That is the job of business.
simonfraser
4 years ago
frank; i don't like being
frank; i don't like being confused so early in the morning. you addressed me and then made reference to someone named elliot. why would i be banned? just bored with the same old lefty drivel. i guess if it ever gets constructive i'd contribute more but this site is lame lame lame.
City Person
4 years ago
[EDITED]
It is amazing how the lefties have been telling me how awful life is for as long as I can remember. The tell me I have to walk over a pile of bodies when I go to work every day and that the world is ending.
Unless, of course, you vote NDP.
If I had tried to chop down a tree with a toothbrush for a decade or so, I might look for a better way of doing it. But the likes of [EDITED]. So negative and they wonder why thy don't enjoy their lives or give thanks for the incredible standard of living Canadians have compared to practically everyone else in the world.
Utopia is only an NDP government away. Just trust us.
simonfraser
4 years ago
funny. i was here in the
funny. i was here in the 90's and i can't seem to remember the ndp utopia, but who am i to complain? just another corporate-capitalist-pig-dog i guess.
City Person
4 years ago
It is easy
The 1990s were in fact a Utopia in BC. However, the Utopia was constantly thwarted but Canwest Global and The Big Business Fat Cats. If we abolished both of the above, Utopia could be achieved.
Not that it actually wasn't achieved. It as just not complete with Canwest Globa and The Big Business Fat Cats ruining everything.
And they still are! It has nothing to do with us, it is the conspiracy against us!
Kam Lee
4 years ago
Right wing BS
Amazing isnt it? Most of the right wing crap is right from the lieberals website. Considering that gordo's office is full of spin doctors and lawyers. Their ideas are very simple, 1. lie, 2. threaten law suits, 3. lie some more. What the real story is about how many of gordo's ministers and back benchers are in trouble with the law. gordo has to go, then he can dry out, and get a real job. Give us back BC!
City Person
4 years ago
Like Glen Clark and Harcourt?
Harcourt resigned as the fall guy when the NDP was caught skimming charity bingo money into party coffers. Several big name NDPers did time for it, too. Get it? They stole money from charities. It doesn't get much worse. They also embezzled money from the party faithful supposedly for investment, into party coffers. Many were elderly.
Clark got caught (probably unintentionally) influence peddling to a casino operator. I have met Glen Clark and if there was ever an unsavory character, it was him. I remember whenever he talked to anybody, he was always looking around the room to glad hand with someone he he thought was more important than you were.
Short memories.
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
Hey, we both know "Elliot" is banned and that a dim view is taken of using new handles so welcome back Nemesis.
Frank
4 years ago
City Person
Now now, you're sounding negative.
Yes, that would be the big conspiracy led by the huge unionized BC auto sector you're so worried about. How many members do they have again? 5 million or something?
Boy, the negativity just flows from you doesn't it? I guess the world came to an end in the 1990's and somehow I missed it.
Try to cheer up and not think about all those unionized BC auto sector people and how energy doesn't have a cost and conservation does and the unicorns and whatever else you believe in.
simonfraser
4 years ago
not sure what you're talking
not sure what you're talking about now frank, but i hope you get better.
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
Thanks, I appreciate your concern for my well-being.
Now about that shift-key that hasn't worked in 6 years. Go to craigslist.ca, and look under computers. You can get a new keyboard for $5.
I have a few extra and am even willing to mail it to you.
politico
4 years ago
Costing out a platform
City Person,
[EDITED. -MODERATOR.]one repetitive theme you keep touching on is the cost of social policy and or a dreaded NDP government. You consistently dismiss the opinions forwarded here by simply stating them as unrealistic or by asking where the money will come from.
The hypocrisy has to be pointed out as the legitimacy of these claims is borne from Campbell's own policies. Upon his first day in office a striking 6 billion dollar tax cut was implemented. This staggering wealth transfer from the public domain to Liberal friends and supporters drove the stake through the heart of the commons on day one. Ever since we have witnessed personal tax rates decreased to the lowest in Canada in the developed world.
Next comes the undermining of public agencies and their ability to generate revenues.
Then of course there is the primary industries in the province. Just look up accrued stumpage debts for the primaries in that industry and that pot of gold alone would fund many of the initiatives you claim are unsustainable. Then try and get your head around actually implementing a stumpage and royalty regime in that industry that is universally adhered too and sees British Columbians actually receiving what is legitimately owed for every log that is felled. Now try the same for mining, oil and gas. Just simply legislate an appropriate royalty regime and insure it is actually collected.
Moreover, if we simply taxed the "big emitters" to the point it actually made a demonstrable difference in their bottom lines we would not only grow public coffers but we would actually decrease the ghg levels. Instead you would advocate more of the same greenwashed corporate tax cuts offered up by Campbell and his spin machine.
By simply doing what I have outlined above British Columbians could:
1) Provide free post secondary education for it's citizens
2) Eliminate health care obstacles and broaden covered treatments while ending waiting lists
3) Ensure everyone is housed and has access to appropriate support programs
4) Move on conservation and alternate energy programs
Frank
4 years ago
politico
You're assuming City Person would actually like to see any of those things implemented. He doesn't. He only feels good about himself when he is able to look down on others. If someone got something for free like a university education it would make him so angry that he didn't that he would get very sick and be a burden on all of us here in BC that are part of the unionized auto sector.
simonfraser
4 years ago
aren't there already enough
aren't there already enough people in universities on our dime who don't know why the heck they're there? picking up 75% of the tab for these people is bad enough, if you make it free they'll really be overloaded.
simonfraser
4 years ago
for frank - happy now?
Aren't there already enough people in universities on our dime who don't know why the heck they're there? Picking up 75% of the tab for these people is bad enough, if you make it free they'll really be overloaded.
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
Just as I don't understand why we have to subsidize expensive Canuck's tickets. You'd think business could buy its own entertainment. Although given the two I bet we'd benefit more from educating people at university OR BCIT etc than letting them cheer for Luongo on the taxpayer dime.
Tickled pink.
brian gough
4 years ago
where do I apply
City person --how many cars are produced in bc--lol
Isn`t the auto industry a sunset industry like logging!
How many 10s of thousands of high tech jobs are there in the "movie industry"
Apparently tourism from the usa to bc is now a sunset industry!
You think the americans would be flocking to bc for our CHEAP GAS--lol
Well we do have like a thousand newly created universities!
In fact gor-doh was coming to visit me and I locked my door and didn`t answere the ding-dong,I was worried he would designate my home a new university and I would be forced to teach POLITICAL SCIENCE--lol
[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]
simonfraser
4 years ago
frank, or should i say
frank, or should i say pinky? not sure why you think the gov subsidizes the canucks, but considering how much revenue they bring into the city i would think it well worth the money. in the real (non ndp) world that's how the economy works. by the way, are you involved with the party in an official capacity?
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
"pinky" is fine batman.
Unclear on subsidies? Let's say I buy a boat and at tax time the government allows me to write the price off as an expense. Would you be happy paying for part of my boat when you'd have to ask really really nicely for me to give you a ride? Probably not. Its the same with allowing business to deduct expenses like Canuck's tix.
Really? So if we had 5 NHL teams we'd be 5 times better off? That's amazing, I think instead of selling franchises to rich folk we should give NHL franchises to native reserves then. It would end poverty apparently.
You mean like maybe "media monitor"? Nope, I heard Campbell was hiring for that though.
Do you get any bucks for having a vendetta against Chudnovsky by any chance?
simonfraser
4 years ago
bad example pinky. your
bad example pinky. your boat does nothing to stimulate our economy, whereas the canucks do. would you be opposed if you owned one of the many business establishments in the downtown area that depends on the business they get from the canucks fans? of course, if you actually owned an independent business you'd be a capitalist pig and not allowed to work for the party. you do work for the ndp, don't you frank?
simonfraser
4 years ago
as for your comment about
as for your comment about the 5 nhl teams and the natives; a class in logic 101 might help.
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
Sure it would. I'll take guys out fishing now and then.
No they don't, the only real economic activity is people paying to watch them. And taxpayers have to subsidize even that.
I've been to lots of places that had no NHL team and guess what? They had downtowns, restaurants, bar and grills etc. The sky doesn't fall when you don't have an NHL team, you're drinking too much Bettman kool-aid.
Perhaps your logic would work if the Canuck fans arrived for games from Mars?
I think you're confused. Capitalists don't work, they live off people that do.
As for me, I live off my own work, like a farmer, ergo, I'm not a capitalist unless you think farmers are capitalists which is pretty funny.
Nope, never, don't even have a membership.
Whereas you only show up as election time nears, kinda hints that you're here because you're told to be?
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
I assume that means yes but you know that's not right and don't want to admit your logic is flawed so you gave a non-answer :-)
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
By the way Batman, when you come up with an answer as to how you generate economic activity by going to a Canucks game could you post that?
Just wanted to make sure you don't forget.
PS your shift-key stopped working again. You should use it, wouldn't want people to think you're the same person as Robin, Adam West, Elliot, Nemesis and Sir John A.
simonfraser
4 years ago
wow! with logic like that
wow! with logic like that you must be a spin doctor for the ndp. are you buddies with bill schreck or david tieleman? are you adrian dix? oh my god, you're glennie!!!!
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
You're right, I'm Glen Clark.
Please submit your looney thesis on economics and I'll pass it on to Jimmy P for you, he says he'd love to read it.
Thanks for comin' out.
simonfraser
4 years ago
looney thesis eh pinky?
looney thesis eh pinky? let's see: the gov't gives tax breaks so that film companies will shoot in b.c., thereby pumping millions of dollars into our province while creating hundreds of jobs. the businesses that cater to the film industry make money and pay taxes, as do the thousands of employees that they hire. are you with me so far frank?how about this one: mercedes benz decides to build a manufacturing plant in north america. tough decision: alabama or ontario? alabama supplies the land and guarantees tax breaks. mb chooses alabama (duh). who collects the taxes resulting from the new jobs, ontario or alabama?
Frank
4 years ago
Working Man
No chance of finding out about all those unionized auto-sector jobs eh?
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
are you with me so far frank?
... mercedes benz decides ...
No no, Jimmy P said he wanted to hear about how buying a boat doesn't generate economic activity but buying a Canucks ticket does.
If you've forgotten the subject, and who wouldn't, after all it was like an hour ago, please feel free to look back over the posts.
Your friend,
Glen Clark
PS Speaking of forgetting, Jimmy says you keep forgetting to swipe people's SaveOnMore cards too. C'mon simon, hold up your end, we're a big team here.
murdock
4 years ago
Count out the NDP
The human mind cannot 'see' a negative like "don't"
This is part of the failing of the current NDP dialogue. The attempts to 'stick' the failings, and some are rightly so: BC Rail scandals, IPP's concerns, etc., to the correct persons in government has totally fallen on deaf ears.
There is a lack of a plan of their own...that has not been already subverted or taken by the BCLibs.
The wet noodle of a leader does not help either, whenever she speaks all I can hear is miss Othmar from Peanuts.
Whom will be the pusher?
Whom will fill the vacuum?
Is there time to complete this transaction and still have any hope of getting that new leader to 'resonate' with the 'mushy middle voter'?
++++++
I do not see a pusher.
I cannot name anyone that really wants the goat sign on them yet, as I figure the 'political penalty box' time out for the NDP has not yet been paid.
I also think that there is not time to complete the change to a different leader, nor is there the will within the labour community which are still the NDP puppet-masters. One more failure at the important polls should do the job and then the real motivation will get started.
I think the NDP will make a good showing, I am hopeful that a Green or Inde MLA will be elected (more would be better).
After the failure to win government, again, James will be seen as the liability that she has been from the start...but then no one else really wanted the job. Once that 'tipping point' is reached expect a fast leadership 'review' post-election and a new younger NDP leader to emerge (possibly one that is not even sitting as an MLA). Then the Libs will be forced to follow suit, and the baggage, trials, bills (from an olympic sized hangover) will all come due.
Nope Rafe, I do not agree.
I count out the NDP.
Frank
4 years ago
murdock
I would imagine the party you call the "Non Democratic Party" isn't looking for a vote from you.
Yep, 3 wins in 60 years when there's only one other major party. murdock thinks that's 3 too many and the cause of every problem in BC.
Open the window, you're sniffing too much paint.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Out of that whole NDP caucus, there is ONE that I think would be competitive vis-a-vis the Liberals...
... current New Democrat MLA for Columbia River-Revelstoke, Norm MacDonald, who is also former Mayor of Golden as well as a former elementary school principal.
I've seen him on Voice of BC and elsewhere in the media over the past few years.
REALLY.
http://www.bcndpcaucus.ca/en/mla/norm_macdonald
I think that he has a bright future ahead of him.
I understand that his Liberal challenger will be current Revelstoke mayor Mark McKee but I still think McDonald will take the riding in 2009, BUT not necessarily because he is a New Democrat.
Macdonald has also done a very creditable job representing the concerns of residents in Victoria but he’ll be the first to admit that he can’t force action on anything.
He’s a happy man when the BC Liberals nick one of his ideas and present it as their own. That has to be frustrating, but Macdonald accepts these things as small victories.
Either one of these men will make an excellent MLA in Victoria. It will be a question of for the voters to decide in the light of the kind of social and economic changes we are undergoing.
http://www.bclocalnews.com/opinion/19104489.html
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
Is that show watchable? Its Palmer and Spector right? Competing with each other to see who can attack the NDP the most?
Are you a betting man Luke? Or should we wait till the election gets closer?
Cuz I'm willing to bet the NDP lose seats. Too many murdock's, Working Man's and Elliots live in BC. Most of them retired here from Alberta I imagine. But all of them very concerned that no one else get anything until they're full.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
As I've fondly stated on occassion, I've never bought a Lotto 6-49 ticket... but I can also read the tea leaves.
I'm of the same frame of mind based upon the poll spreads over the past three years. Again, likely due to record low unemployment rates, economic growth, and budget surpluses.
If Harcourt was in power, he'd likely also be a shoo-in under those circumstances.
The problem is that the percentage spread in 2005 was 4% and if that increases to 10% on voting day, that only magnifies the win for the incumbents under FPTP, which would see the NDP lucky to keep 25 seats under that scenario.
As for Norm MacDonald, I was thinking strategically, from a New Democrat perspective, after 2009.
City Person
4 years ago
Corrections
Some corrections. There is a major Toyota wheel plant in Richmond, producing all the alloy wheels for all Toyota Canada vehicles. Richmond is also the major transshipment point for Japanese and Korean imports into Canada.
As for cars being a sunset industry, perhaps in some areas it is. However, the fact is that there have never been more cars produced in Canada than right now. The traditional "Big Three" have been hammered by building product people do not want to buy. The two most popular cars in Canada are made right here, the Honda Civic and the Toyota Corolla.
All the Matrix and most of the Corollas for North America and produced at Cambridge, which employs 4300 workers. Almost 100% of the content is locally made in sub-factories. It also is the only plant outside Japan producing the Lexus brand. The Canadian operations of Toyota have been so successful a new play at Woodstock is soon to begin production. It has been consistently chosen as one of Canada's top 100 employers, too. There are plans to enlarge the Cambridge plant to double capacity and the work force.
Honda employs almost 6000 people at its Allison Ontario plant and is also expanding. All Civics for North America, as well as all Ridgeline, are built in Allison. The demand for the Civic has been so great that Honda opened a second factory in 2007 and is now building a third. Unlike Toyota, Honda imports its engines but is at the moment building an engine plant in Allison.
Hardly a sunset industry.
brian gough
4 years ago
oh luke skywalker
delta riding gone--
north burnaby gone--
maple ridge gone--
three island ridings libs hold gone--
lorne mayencourts west end riding gone-arther griffiths can`t win there
prince george gone-
surrey gone-
coquitlam westwood gone-
chilliwak gone--
burnaby willingdon gone-
In fact I believe that campbell himself will lose his point grey riding.
No island riding will roll over for campbell!
eh luke skywalker --what do you think of lorne mayencourt running for stephen harpers tories in the next federal election.
one more prince george omineca gone--
my election results ndp 48 seats--bc libs 37 --green zero
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Hmmmmmm...
my election results ndp 48 seats--bc libs 37 --green zero
Well, if the NDP wins all of those strong Liberal seats that you claim, you are wrong...
Should be:
NDP - 70
Liberal - 15
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
unemployment rates : aging population has nothing to do with it?
economic growth (and unemployment) : like every other province in Western Canada. Campbell be blessed, he brings prosperity even to Hudson Bay from here.
budget surpluses : Federal largesse, low interest rates, a nation-wide housing boom, excellent commodity prices, spending on social programs mismanaged.
Nope, if the NDP was in power the media would be reminding the people of everything wrong in this province every day till the election.
You're looking too far ahead. Worrying about elections 5 years from now in a place like BC, a one-party state, is about as interesting as being a pollster in Moscow circa 1952.
brian gough
4 years ago
oh city perpson
were talking about b.c.
pan pacific hotel empty!
line up to canada on weekends from usa-NO LINE-UP
tourism dead this year and next
new convention center--a white whale of loses for years.
Movie biz on the slide.
wages frozen for a decade in bc
alberta recruiting all our mill and pulp workers,to work in alberta mills and pulp operations--Another sign how colemans forestry policy destroyed the forestry sector.
rich colemans riding --gone
penners riding gone--
special prosecutors desperately needed in bc!
I`ll bet you and skywaker--A big tyee apoligy --You will have to admit cp --and Ls that your not smarter than a 5th grader!
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
You Are the Best!
Yep, you are the BEST Brian! :)
BC, what a miserable place to live!
brian gough
4 years ago
no after the election
I want your apoligy after the 2009 election.
abbott riding gone--
christian riding gone--
Just name me one sector of bcers who do not hate campbell? besides big business
seniors--islanders- ferry riders--bus riders--pensioners--Icbc policy holders--hydro users--(Sorry the youth don`t vote)
The public sector? bcgeu by 2010 still won`t have got back what campbell illegally rolled back in 2002
ferry workers 7% over 7 years
bc hydro union.
true enviromentalists!
Did you catch global news tonight --the bc enviromental groups have declared war against bc libs--claiming the libs have reneged and stalled!
What a platform bc libs have--vote for us and we will build a bridge by 2016--rapid transit by 2020--
surrey memorial hospital expansion by 2014-
eartquake proof schools by 2110 (they close them faster then they retro-fit!
bribing first nations won`t get them any votes!
A bunch of tired worn out construction workers won`t be flocking to the polls!(30% tops will vote)
The largest voting block seniors--and you know where that vote is going!
City Person
4 years ago
oh city perpson [sic]
Brian, there is no doubt that tourism is suffering all over Canada. According to a report on CBC today, the number of visitors to Canada is at a low since 1972, the last major spike in our dollar. The major reasons are the high dollar, high gasoline prices and the inconvenience to US travelers who now need a passport to re-enter the USA. The recession in the USA is not helping, either.
This is not exactly an issue the government of BC has any influence over.
I started voting in 1968 and had I believed what you are saying, the NDP would have formed each and every government.
What else is new? They never voted Liberal anyway. They used to vote NDP until the NDP started backpedaling on environmental issues. They now vote Green.
Perhaps your are correct but the majority of voters are over the age of 40 and own their own homes. It is the under 25 group that doesn't vote. Insulting construction workers isn't very nice. They built the dwelling your are sitting in now.
Oh, and Brian, sentences start with capital letter. Perhaps you know them as big letters. Proper nouns, for example names of organisations, also get capital, or upper case, letters, too. Firefox has a handy spell checker that you can add on, too.
Stay in school, Brian. You'll be glad you did.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
City Person...
The major reasons are the high dollar, high gasoline prices and the inconvenience to US travelers who now need a passport to re-enter the USA. The recession in the USA is not helping, either.
Posted in another thread but relevant and I'll repost.
The figures havn't been released border specific provincially, but similar past provincial results have shown that only the Douglas border crossing in BC has held its own across Canada.
BTW, on that same note, YVR passenger traffic is up ~10% this year over last year.
http://www.yvr.ca/pdf/authority/statistics/March_2008_Traffic_Update.pdf
Different story back east though.
City Person
4 years ago
Good to hear
That is good to hear. I assume that it is because more trips than average to Vancouver are via air and air travelers would be more likely to have passports, I would assume.
brian gough
4 years ago
CP GET REAL
I BUILT MY OWN HOUSE--
I NEVER WENT TO SCHOOL--
SELF TAUGHT ON THE COMPUTER--
BLIND IN ONE EYE--
ONE ARM--
LEFT LEG RECENTLY REMOVED--
IF I WENT AROUND CORRECTING EVERYONES SPELLING AND GRAMMER (STUPID)
ANYONE WHO CAN`T SEE THE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY BEING PERPETRATED BY CAMPBELL IS A FOOL!
LIKE FDR IN THE 30S --THE COURTS RULED AGAINST FDR CLAIMING CHILD LABOUR WAS LEGAL
THE SUPREME COURT RULED AGAINST FDR OVER WAGE STANDARDS--UNIONS---SOCIAL SECURITY-
THE WEALTHY SHARE CROPPERS WERE WORRIED ABOUT GIVING UP A FEW DOLLARS(THE END OF THE WORLD)
THE NATIONAL GUARD WAS SENT TO ALABAMA IN 1968 TO FORCE THE GOVERMENT TO END SEGREGATION!
ECONOMIES HAVE ALWAYS GOT BETTER WITH THE RAISING OF MINIMUM WAGES!
GORDON CAMPBELL HAS DONE NOTHING TO THE BETTERMENT OF BCERS
CAMPBELL TAKING CREDIT FOR HIGH COMMODTIES AND RISING REALITY
CAMPBELL WASHES HIS HANDS OVER LOGGING AND TOURISM!
CP MAYBE YOU ENJOY A SECRETIVE, LYING,GOVERMENT!
WHY DON`T YOU VISIT A HOSPITAL LIKE SURREY MEMORIAL OR ROYAL COLUMBIAN!
BETWEEN YOU AND I CP ---IF WE HAD IQ TESTS I WOULD BLOW YOU AWAY--COME JOIN ME AT MENSA!
brian gough
4 years ago
CP
QUOTE "THEY BUILT THE DWELLING YOUR ARE SITTING IN NOW."
REAL GOOD CP --USE YOUR SPELL CHECKER
simonfraser
4 years ago
watching gwest, i mean
INFLAMMATORY AND OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.
brian gough
4 years ago
SIMONFRASER
ABUSIVE AND DISRESPECTFUL COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.
siamdave
4 years ago
sick of em all
- try Green Island http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
Not that long, you still used the name "simonfraser" your last time here. You have had 4 aliases since the last provincial election.
Yes, you have been censured, 5 times. For name-calling I suspect. But those days are over, I have faith in you.
And what bad words did I actually use? Attack the idea, not the individual. Its a fine line that your prose seems to have trouble with. One does not have to call someone a name when telling them there is something lacking in their post.
As for trolling, something our old friend Working Man engaged in often, that is a level of maturity that is also best dealt with by the editors without whom this site would be unreadable.
Frank
4 years ago
alcibiades
Oh, and "simonfraser" wasn't on this site when "alcibiades" was here. You were actually called "Elliot" back then. No worries, it'd be hard for any of us with 6 aliases to remember when we were what.
Having only the one name for ever (except when I use "Frank_On_Holiday') does make it easy.
G West
4 years ago
Only ever GWest and Alcibiades
And only for exactly one year - of which record I'm proud. Frank and all the rest of the guys and gals who agree with G West some of the time - and disagree with the simonfraser/elliot/nemesis/robin/batman and god knows who-all else all the time - speak by and for themselves.
Anyone wants to can read about it here:
http://thetyee.ca/Views/Teacherdiaries/2007/02/27/BoyTrouble/
But thanks anyway for the advertising!!
I always welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
murdock
4 years ago
Still down and out.
Yes the Non Democratic Party will continue to languish in their 30% range watching things happen from the side-lines, wondering what happened to their 'shot' at power.
Ms. James has even lost the regular NDP position as 'conscience' of the government...a role they had some skill at a decade or two ago. Now she simply plays along with whatever schema the Libs devise, with her blinders on not seeing where the plans lead to.
Face it, Frank, the NDP are an extreme long shot for forming government in a year's time, especially since Gordo and 'da boyz' will ensure full damage control and prevention plans are put into effect.
Expect no news is good news from the 'big media' and not much more from elsewhere, since the access to information taps are likely to be welded shut for the next year.
City Person
4 years ago
Big Surprise
Wow, that is really surprising. I would have never thought that!
Yes, they were, and your point is?
I have always admired your impeccable logic, Mr Spock.
I am glad for the leaders we have if the above is the alternative.
Frank
4 years ago
murdock
It appears you want to paint me as someone who believes the NDP is likely to win the next election. This would allow you to act as the voice of reason and pop my hopeful balloon.
The thing is I have not ever given you reason to believe that. Quite the opposite, I have said that about 70% of this province swings between right-wing and extreme right-wing. The NDP can only win if a major part of the population refuses to show up to vote because they wish to voice their disapproval with their government.
And since they don't care about the things that go wrong in this province because their compassion begins and ends at their front door I see no reason they would find fault with Campbell.
Where you can ridicule me as you like, is that I'm hopeful STV will pass and the dynamics of provincial politics will be forever changed.
But considering your stance in the past I would assume that electoral reform is the one thing you and I can agree on.
City Person
4 years ago
70%?
Canada is hardly right wing and I find that number a little high. Go live in a right wing county and you will see what I mean.
Traditionally, the NDP got about 40%, Free Enterprise 40% and the 20% swing vote decided the election.
Now it is different because since the NDP has backpedaled on environmental issues and has lost the hard-eco vote to the Green party.
Frank
4 years ago
City Person
You need to talk to Luke Skywalker. He's googled the numbers in the past and posted them. The NDP high-water mark, which you allude to above does get into the 40's. Which is the same as the Socred-Liberal low-water mark. The NDP low-water mark on the other hand (2001?) is the NDP base.
What you've articulated above would not explain the electoral history of this province since WW2. My view, that the NDP only wins when right-wing voters sit on their hands, does.
I was actually referring only to BC.
Although an argument can certainly be made that people between the 30% NDP and the 50% right-wing shouldn't be lumped in with the rest of the Right.
At best however, those voters split between the two sides.
City Person
4 years ago
BC Right Wing
I hardly see this province as right wing. If you actually believe this, go live in Mexico for a while, or the USA for that matter.
Frank
4 years ago
City Person
So, that's your argument?
I hope the rest of your inspired post was cut off.
Again, BC electoral history is not a secret, the numbers are out there.
simonfraser
4 years ago
let's get real. the ndp
let's get real. the ndp don't have a chance of winning the next election. british columbians are happy with the libs, as witnessed by the polls, which have been consistent for years. the commercial drive lefties and the public sector unions have opposed everything the libs have done b/c they are at odds ideologically, and as long as the ndp continue to try to please their special interest groups they'll remain in opposition. mercifully.
City Person
4 years ago
Catch 22
The NDP kind of have to keep pleasing their special interest groups because they are the ones supplying manpower, legwork, free advertising and money.
G West
4 years ago
simonfraser
Special interest groups?
Please, perhaps you could counter these:
The New Car Dealers of British Columbia;
The Road Builders Association...just for a start.
And, further, could you please provide an essay on the following observations and historical facts - inconvenient though they may be (capitals optional).
Campbell raised a total of $23.8 million between 2000 and 2003, 68 percent from corporations, unincorporated businesses, and commercial organizations: amounted to more than $16.1 million.
Party financing records reveal that the biggest story in B.C. politics is the enormous dependence of the Liberals on the business community for funding. Have you looked at the list of groups who are 'registered' as official lobbyists?
Extra points if you bring that information into your argument.
It has been claimed by many that "big labour" bankrolls the NDP, the actual facts show: Labour provides only a small fraction of NDP funding.
During the same four years between 2000 and 2003, the NDP raised $11.6 million, less than half the Liberals' total and of that union contributions amounted to only $1.15 million, roughly 10%, and more than 50% of that amount came in the year 2001.
The rest came from individuals, plus business and other sources. Curious non-facts to support the lie that Campbell and his cohorts sell aren't they?
Despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of NDP donations come, in fact, from individuals, Premier Gordon Campbell continues to push the idea that union money challenges his party.
Apparently simonfraser is selling the same lie.
Strange!
I invite respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser and City Person
The NDP kind of have to keep pleasing their special interest groups because they are the ones supplying manpower, legwork, free advertising and money.
And these same arguments couldn't be made about the Liberals who are almost totally funded by business? Of course it can, even moreso in fact.
Best not to let your ideology cloud your analysis. Just because you really really want to believe something is true doesn't mean you're not lying to yourself.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
On the federal scene, the new federal election financing rules banned corporate/union donations in January, 2007.
So what happened?
In the first quarte of 2008:
The Conservative party raised about $5 million in contributions from individuals in the first quarter of the year, according to financial returns released yesterday by Elections Canada.
The NDP came second with slightly more than $1.1 million, followed by the Liberals with $846,129 and the Green party with $210,962.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=20970d54-4390-410c-91aa-33c8234ef701&k=24367
Now all of these donations are from individuals, yet it's more than likely that many of those "individuals" for the Tories were from business just as many of those "individuals" for the NDP were from unions.
So while there are no "corporate" or "union" donors federally, it's now done through the back door as an "individual".
Same thing would happen here in BC if those federal regulations would be in place, whereby the parties would likely still raise the same amounts but under the guise of "individuals" rather than "corporations" or "unions".
The bottom line - It's all about "appearances".
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
We don't have those laws here in BC. You seem to be suggesting the BC NDP's individual donors are really just unions skirting non-existent rules. Why would they bother?
Frank
4 years ago
Speaking of monoliths
I'm willing to bet there are far more union people that vote for right-wing parties than there are businessmen that vote NDP.
brian gough
4 years ago
cp
Your a baf n.
People in bc are happy?
There was a poll done I heard about somewhere that said bcers are the most unhappy of all provinces!
Your obviously to naive to understand my posts!
Fdr was born into wealth and privaledge,his peers called him a traitor!
The wise usa supreme court and power brokers were going nuts claiming FDR was giving away the farm!
Without the vision of FDR (the new deal) helping the masses with labour laws--social security--work projects--human rights etc.
Without his vision the usa would be a tyranical state!
The liberals federally and provincially have NEVER had a visionary thought!
What visionary thoughts has campbell ever come up with?
Tax cuts (only to be replaced by user fees and social cuts)
Greenhouse gas reduction plan (a gas tax)
A 6 dollar starter wage!
Gordon(lushwell)campbell is a hollow shell,a waste of skin!
A honerable man would of resigned after a dui!
Cp you apparently need to be led by your nose,
Cp--you are getting sleepy,very sleepy,just relax cp,keep your eyes on the pendulam,you are getting sleepy, when you wake up CP you will now lead people into the gas chambers!
Cp you can`t see the forest through the trees!
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Many individual donors are likely union execs.
I haven't had a chance to review the donors list (individuals esp.) at Elections BC but you may have answered your own question indirectly:
And many union executives probably take that into consideration. Just musing, but I'd imagine that it's also probably more of a hassle for business to cut cheques from several individual execs than it its for a company to cut a single cheque under existing rules.
And in terms of members of private sector unions you are probably bang on esp. in BC's interior.
Eg. the coal mining area in the Elk Valley (Fernie, Sparwood, Elkford), the lumber/pulp mill towns of MacKenzie and Prince George voted enmasse for the federal Conservatives.
But as you move toward the coast, the lumber/pulp mill town of Port Alberni voted enmasse for the federal NDP.
Ergo, the political culture on Vancouver Island is different than that of BC's interior.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
I think you're coming around to my "its not a level playing field" theory. Different places tend to vote different ways. Ergo, its easier to be elected under an NDP banner in Manitoba and Sask than it is in BC or Alberta. (Of course within those provinces different parties have strongholds too)
Just don't go off on a Doer tangent.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
BC Happiness Poll
There was a poll done I heard about somewhere that said bcers are the most unhappy of all provinces!
Mustel Poll - August, 2006:
"Overall Level of Happiness"
On a Scale of 1 - 10:
10 - 17%
9 - 16%
8 - 32%
7 - 15%
Overall Level of Happiness - 7.8
http://www.mustelgroup.com/pdf/a498hs_jha.pdf
Not bad in my books.
Frank
4 years ago
Happiness
I think Brian was referring to one of the national polls. There were several.
Perhaps it was this one?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/11/30/nb-blisssurvey.html
That found New Brunswick to be happiest?
Frank
4 years ago
happiness
Or perhaps this one
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2007/12/27/happiness-atlantic.html
which claims Saint John NB is the happiest city?
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Perhaps it was this one?
www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2006/11
That found New Brunswick to be happiest?
That national poll was undertaken in October, 2006, just a couple of months after the BC Mustel poll in ugust, 2006.
Note, the national poll comprised a 2,300 sample size (~300 for BC), while the Mustel poll had a sample size of 502.
In any event:
While BC showed 78 with Mustel. Pretty much bang on with New Brunswick.
Frank
4 years ago
happiness
All the provinces were within a few % points.
City Person
4 years ago
Troll bait, but....
Just because you are not happy, Brian, doesn't mean other people are not.
Perhaps he is in your opinion but he has managed to get himself elected twice and looks for a third go around.
He obviously didn't have to.
As the polls quoted above, 78% of people in BC, or Canada for that matter, are happy with their lives. There will always be malcontents and they always add up to about 20% of the population, in my experience anyway.
Canadians have a lot to be happy about, too. We have clean air, good education, clean water and a society that lives by rule of law.
Most people in the world do not have such benefits. I count myself as part of that 78%.
brian gough
4 years ago
Heres a few reasons why!
People are getting nickled and dimed to death.
ICBC--up --up-up-up- up
BC ferries--up--up--up--up
municipal taxes--up--up--up--(thanks translink(bc goverment)
Provincial sales tax was raised to 7.5 under gordo--enviro taxes(going into general revenue)
seperate water bill--transit up-up-up-
hydro-up--up-up-
gas tax-up-up-up- natural gas(tersan)up-up-up-
Liquor up--up--up-
tobacco--up--up-up-up
Tire fees--paint fees--park fees-
DEATH BY A THOUSAND CUTS (under gordos regime)
Wages are not up --Port alberni used to be highest wage city in canada--now third lowest!
Adjusted for inflation wages across the board are DOWN
I am not a big fan of the ndp but-
The bc liberals have lost their way(campbell has lost his mind)
Campbell scolds his cabinet and backbenchers like mis-behaving children!
Why do you think so many backbenchers and cabinet are resigning! Perhaps a few have a conscious!
Goverments need to be flipped every 8 years to keep them in line and that goes for the ndp!
I voted for campbell in 2001--
He lied and broke every promise he made!
You don`t reward a bad teenager with keys to your new car!
You take away his allowance and send him to his room. In gordos case we take away "our" checkbook and send him to maui(to play with his freinds fred and kathie)
G West
4 years ago
poll samples of 500!
Utter nonsense - haven't we been here before?
BTW - how about those kids in poverty - pretty happy folks I reckon.
Might care to have a look at this Luke Skywalker - and start worrying about how the Public Affairs Bureau is going to spin the news that:
British Columbia has had the highest rate of child poverty of any province in Canada for 3 years in a row.
Approximately 1 in 4 of our province’s children live in poverty with evidence indicating that the depth of poverty is also increasing.
From an unimpeachable source - not a Mustel poll of 500 people.
http://www.bcconversationonhealth.ca/media/HOCBC-Child_Poverty.pdf
I invite respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
brian gough
4 years ago
I`m happy as a clam
[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. - MODERATOR.]
City Person
4 years ago
Corrections
The PST is 7%. The raise was to pay for budgeted sweetheart deals with the public sector unions when Glen was on the way out.
If I could insure my car in Alberta, the cost would be less than half of what I pay in BC.
I see, so are natural gas prices only up in BC or in other places, too?
I would imagine that is the one that hurts the most.
Exactly how many? I don't see a rampage to the door just yet.
You will have you chance next May, Brian. That is if you know how my make an X. Start at the top and work down.
Frank
4 years ago
78%
I think most of us are in the 78%. However, many of us in that 78% still believe we shouldn't be ignoring the other 22%.
And since as far as I know, there is no such thing as the "Happy" and "Unhappy" political parties and since I had to put up with constant whining from the Right throughout the 90's every time I read a paper or turned on a tv or radio I doubt any one side has a lock on happiness.
As far as the air and water goes, both used to be cleaner. In as little as 200 years of "progress" the environment is far worse off and I don't see any hope in fixing that by voting for those that want to wreck more of it, especially when its for their own gain and not the unhappy 22%.
City Person
4 years ago
Coming of Age Day
In Japan, young women dress in a kimono and attend a local ceremony at age 20. I don't recall any clams and I think that it is rather racist to call it "quirky." But if I had never been past Prince George, I might think so, too.
Enough replying to troll.
Frank
4 years ago
Brian
Because unlike Jock Finlayson no one ever hears them complain :-)
brian gough
4 years ago
Yes cp
gordoh lowered it back to 7%
Kinda like when someone puts a rock in your shoe,are you supposed to be grateful when Campbell takes "his"rock out of our shoes!
The forest through the trees cp?
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Ohhhh Geeee West...
Don't make yourself to be a doctorate in probability and statistics 'cause you ain't.
Those federal polls with 1,000 sample sizes are apropos for the federal scene, but the provincial sub-samples are relatively useless (~140 for BC).
From Bill Tielman's own blog:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=35935973&postID=6654493726993178124
And that's absolutely correct!
simonfraser
4 years ago
the only poll that will
the only poll that will count will take place next may. the day after that election the tyee will be loaded with posters who will offer a multitude of excuses for their faithful party's dismal loss of the day before. foremost will be the fact that british columbians are evil, nasty, stupid people who love to be ruled by a horrible dictator named gordo who spends most of his time dreaming up ways to abuse the ignorant electorate. and the beat goes on...
G West
4 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Without prejudice.
Why is that you never actually contend with the substance of the Campbell record?
The claim that this is the 'best place on earth' flies in the face of the facts of child poverty and numerous other inequities too numerous to mention.
Instead you revert to calling other posters names instead of dealing with what they write.
I welcome respectful responses to my posts. I especially appreciate it when my interlocutor complies with the Tyee code of conduct.
Perhaps you haven't read it yet:
The Tyee exists to inform, enlighten and spark constructive discussion.
We ask you to reflect this spirit in your comments, to relate your comments to the subject matter of the preceding articles, and to refrain from personal insults towards authors or other commenters.
The Tyee is not responsible for the content of posted comments.
We reserve the right to delete comments we deem vulgar, personally insulting, libelous, racist, or sexist, or for any other reason harmful to the quality of the Tyee forum. In addition, we may delete excessive postings from one commenter to give others a chance to comment. Regular violators of these rules will be blocked from further commenting on The Tyee.
I'm happy to 'discuss' anything with anyone - I'm not interested in a slanging match.
I believe there is ample evidence that a sample of that size - particularly as regards a nebulous question about 'happiness' is about as useful as the little online poll that shows 72% of respondents think Gordon Campbell is doing a terrible job as premier.
G West
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Ohhh Geee West....
Oh come on.
That's a legal term utilized by the law profession during litigation when both parties attempt to reach a settlement agreement "without predjudice' to the extant litigation.
Good for you!
G West
4 years ago
Read the rules!
'Without prejudice' can be used in all kinds of contexts.
By the way, what's the 'law' profession?
Furthermore, the use of the term in this context was meant to be part of a genuine attempt at settling a dispute.
I've given you plenty of opportunity to actually 'discuss' issues - provided you with reams of data and you do nothing but play silly games.
If you don't think the rates of child poverty in a jurisdiction as wealthy as British Columbia isn't an indictment of the Campbell government then why don't you advance a case for that view?
I think you constantly disregard the rules and the intent of posting here and I was letting you know exactly how I feel - without prejudice with respect to where this may eventually lead.
I've tagged your posts to me as offensive several times in the past - it seems to have had almost no effect. Therefore I'm moving to another level to attempt to get you to actually engage an issue in discussion and to stay relevant and on topic.
It you think I'm the only one who feels this way about your antics, this is notice that that impression is also inaccurate.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee and I try, insofar as it is humanly possible, to observe both the spirit and letter of the rules here. That's why I posted the relevant section for your attention.
G West
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Ohhh Geee West....
Yeah, I have come across all kinds of people who think that they are clever using the same terminology.
Read the above appropriate definition again.
Law profession, legal profession... What's the diff?
Go and bug someone else. lol
G West
4 years ago
So I take it Luke Skywalker
You're happy to defend the current level of child poverty in this province. Satisfied that seniors have to be bunked together in single rooms so former ministers of the government can make more money.
Please, let's hear it.
I can't imagine what possible excuse there is for such a pathetic situation relative to the future of this province than the current status of its children.
Anyone who purports to support the current administration and refuses to confront its shortcomings can't hope to be taken seriously.
Then again, I've often thought that one of the most unique characteristics of both Campbell and his supporters was that they simply didn't give a shit about anything other than themselves.
With each passing year I'm more convinced that is the case.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
netscaper2
4 years ago
Opposition ?
Hmmmm, I did not know we had such a thing.
With the exception a few, Ms. James has led the most lack luster bunch of rag tags I've ever seen. MLA's such as Mr. Harry Lalli (who?) are a complete disgrace to the party.
Rafe Mair is way off base on this one. I feel the Socred Liberals will claim a majority larger than that of their first term.
G West
4 years ago
netscaper2
I'm interested in your reaction.
Why do you feel that the current NDP leader is such a bust?
Do you follow the proceedings of the Legislature on the Legislative Channel? Check up on the record in Hansard?
Or are you simply relying upon the media to give you reports of what the opposition is doing and saying?
I get the feeling that Ms James is very well liked in certain grass roots circles and I find many of the Opposition's MLAs are more than willing to reach out to constituents when they have a problem and need assistance.
I recognize Ms James is a very different sort of leader than Gordon Campbell but I wonder why you think she's been so ineffective while many others, including Mr. Mair, seem to disagree.
I’d also like to make it clear I’m not a party member – just an interested voter who’d very much like to see the people of this province get a better government than the one they have now.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts here at Tyee.
G West
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
netscaper2
Well, at least you seem to be in tune with public opinion.
From the Innovative Research Group poll just released:
Strong Leadership:
Campbell - 43%
James - 11%
If one reads the tea leaves, you are also in tune with public opinion:
Percentage Vote Spreads - Liberal/NDP:
IRG - 11%
Ipsos - 12%
Mustel - 18%
simonfraser
4 years ago
'I’d also like to make it
'I’d also like to make it clear I’m not a party member – just an interested voter who’d very much like to see the people of this province get a better government than the one they have now.'
which they won't get unless a new party is formed between now and next may.
i was playing hockey the other night and the subject of provincial politics came up in the dressing room; i could not believe how many people spewed vitriolic comments at the ndp. in fact i was shocked. obviously this is just one tiny anectodal example, but i'll wager that the 90's have not yet faded from the memory of the common man and the ndp are destined to spend AT LEAST the next five years in opposition. praise be to god.
simonfraser
4 years ago
oh yeah: i welcome
oh yeah: i welcome respectful comments to my posts here at tyee.
Frank
4 years ago
simonfraser
Sounds like the right-wing posters here telling us why Campbell is not at fault for anything that has gone wrong.
pump it up batman, I'm probably one of the few here that bothers to read your streams of conciousness.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
I guess from your perspective on the far left, you may classify me as right-wing, just like the New Democrat poster Budd Campbell. :)
Actually, I'm centre-right on economic issues and centre-left on social issues.
Might not mean much to you though! :)
That said, here are the descriptions of the two main leaders that come across again and again... from "the street":
Campbell - jerk, a##hole;
James - flake, inept;
I tend to agree with all of the above descriptions for both leaders.
BC has never had a Romanow, a Lougheed, a Doer, or a Davis...
Frankly, those are political leaders that I have always respected.
In fact, Carole Taylor also has my respect, among many others, albeit I know, from what you have previously stated, that the far left despises her.
G West
4 years ago
Nice to see
you're still playing hockey elliot - it was about the only subject you could ever discuss respectfully with anyone as I recall.
Some things never change - I'm not sure that the fact a few over the hill hockey players aren't voting NDP will be a problem for anyone though.
Another 4 years for Campbell will be a problem for everyone.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts here at Tyee.
G West
simonfraser
4 years ago
that's the point g. the
that's the point g. the hockey players represent the street. for this reason i believe that the ndp'ers need to consider changing. opposing gateway et al is incredibly stupid and out-of-touch.
Frank
4 years ago
Libs about to get 100% of the vote
In a province of 4 million plus people the Liberals received 807,164 votes in the last election yet everyone on Sir John A's hockey team spewed vitriolic comments in favour of the Libs. Not one Green, not one NDPer, and not one disinterested in all parties among them.
Somehow I'm not going to lose sleep that Sir John A's team is representative of the province.
Frank
4 years ago
Hockey player education levels
Remember, buying a boat doesn't create economic activity, only buying a Canuck ticket does.
Frank
4 years ago
City Person
I forgot about you, sorry, I never did get the number of that local auto-sector union that's been threatening James.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
Its how we vote that describes us politically is it not?
I haven't seen any indication that you're on the side of the Left on any discussion around here and to me it appears you're on the Right of everything.
And in the end you'll walk into the booth and vote for the Right-wing party just as I will vote for the Left-wing one.
I thus call myself a Left-winger, you should call yourself a Right-winger.
The last time I checked Elections BC does not allow you to split your single vote, therefore there is no point in calling oneself a centrist.
Definitely. She has the ability to do some good in the world and is not interested.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Yep, ya just can't get more right wing than my previous post in this thread: ;)
I will agree that some increase [in social service benefits] is warranted, but without any first hand knowledge of cost/benefits of same, that would be akin to pulling a number out of thin air.
And then there is the social housing component.
And then there is the better employment opportunities component.
A whole basket of goods are involved to lift up the standard of living of those on the lower rung of the socio-economic ladder..
http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/05/05/PoorMagnet/
I thus call myself a Left-winger, you should call yourself a Right-winger.
And that's why I think that BC's current political landscape should again evolve into one mirroring that of either Ontario or Canada nationally... that is two strong parties (Conservative[centre-right/right] and Liberal [centre/centre/left]), with a social democratic NDP in the 15% range.
It's more reflective of BC's political landscape as, unlike Manitoba or Saskatchewan, the BC NDP would never allow the sell-off of crown corp's or closure of hospitals (under Romanow) or the reduction/elimination of corporate taxes/corporate capital taxes (under Doer).
Politically, BC currently seems to lie somewhere in-between Ontario and Saskatchewan/Manitoba.
G West
4 years ago
Not so simonfraser
The guys I play hockey with all vote NDP to a man (and not a single one of us is a member of the party) - and they can deliver a slap shot or a check with exactly the same kind of vigour, if not more, than your buddies...I think they're just as representative of the average guy as your friends.
You what we laugh about in the dressing room? The utter incompetence, deceit and rot of this government - because enough of us work for them to know exactly how bad they are.
What all you guys forget is that if you add the votes of the Green Party to the votes of the NDP in the 2005 election then the Campbell party not only didn't get half the votes cast, it was actually supported by fewer people than voted against it.
I'd say neither experience means diddilly squat. But since it amounts to your only argument I’ll just continue to ignore you the same way I did when you used all those other aliases.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
G West
4 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Your igorance of the situation in Saskatchewan at the implosion of the Devine government is profound.
Please, don't try and tell anyone from that province about what the situation was there when Romanow came to power.
Devine built a lot of rural hospitals as a pander to the rural vote; virtually all of those hospitals were in communities incapable of supporting them - empty streets and houses don't need empty hospitals and empty hospitals are what were closed when Romanow came to power. He was faced with an economic meltdown that Gordon Campbell could never have coped with in a million years.
Try again.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
You didn't say anything about policy in that post. The only thing you like about Doer is that he eventually cut taxes in Manitoba.
The federal Liberals are left-wing? Oh man. So inj other words, you think the Left has governed Canada for most of its history? Oh jeez.
You're pulling a policy of Romanow's out of a Michael Campbell column with no context. A column I read after moving here. Being as I was there and you weren't the idea that Romanow was acting to the delight of the Sask right-wingers is ludicrous.
Faced with what Romanow was faced with the BC NDP would have done the same or more.
Yes it does. Something I've been saying to you on here for about a month but which you refused to believe before.
simonfraser
4 years ago
business as usual at the old
INFLAMMATORY COMMENT DELETED.
-MODERATOR.
Frank
4 years ago
batman
INFLAMMATORY COMMENT EDITED. -MODERATOR.
Frank
4 years ago
and Robin too
EDITED. -MODERATOR.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
I didn't say left. I said centre-centre-left
You know, the Ujjal Dosanjhs, the Bob Raes, the Mike Harcourts, the Dave Haggards, the Shirley Chans et al.
Not the Svend Robinsons or Libby Davies of the left.
G West
4 years ago
If the theory doesn't fit the facts
It is interesting to watch the peregrinations that some commentators will go through in order to massage the message into the kind of thing that accords with their particular political point of view.
It doesn't really matter what the actual meaning of a word or a term is - if it can be put to use, simply change the definition.
George Orwell wrote the definitive explanation of that particular mutilation of meaningful discourse in 1946.
It is far too long to post entire, however, thanks to the internet, it's readily available here:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
Several small points, for those too indolent to read the whole thing, are worth repeating:
As I have tried to show, modern writing at its worst does not consist in picking out words for the sake of their meaning and inventing images in order to make the meaning clearer. It consists in gumming together long strips of words which have already been set in order by someone else, and making the results presentable by sheer humbug.
At the end of the essay, Orwell presents several "rules" which are also worth repeating and re-reading or even posting over one's desk.
However, in the end I like this, from very near the end, the best:
If you simplify your English, you are freed from the worst follies of orthodoxy. You cannot speak any of the necessary dialects, and when you make a stupid remark its stupidity will be obvious, even to yourself. Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts here at Tyee.
G West
zalm
4 years ago
Mmm-mmm-Good!
Just finished cleaning up from dinner with the gang - 22-year anniversary of our get-togethers with me, the youngest doing all the cooking, wine flowing freely, buns tossing on the veranda, and eventually, despite our rules, the talk turns briefly to politics, and even more briefly to Campbell.
Sez the forest products captain of industry, now bought out for a couple of million and starting a new business at 62; "Is Campbell crazy putting a new roof on that stadium? When we've got homeless in the streets and the poor close behind them, and the world arriving in two years?"
Sez the retired surveying company owner, sailing the western hemisphere for fun and profit; "Campbell? I've never met a man I could trust less. Selling BC Rail for a song has got to be the dumbest move ever. Where was the money?" ( I wonder if he reads Tyee now?)
Sez the doctor (my GP) after regaling us yet once again with the story about meeting Gordo on a trail in Maui "Appalling judgement. Seems to have a nose for finding the pond with the most girls and jumping right in to make the biggest splash. Driving drunk in Hawaii is only one example."
Sez the advertising exec (now in Ontario) "Remember, I left town right after I got my tax cut. My boss got a wayyyy bigger tax cut than me. My secretary got nothing. 'Nuff said."
Sez the most brilliant and capable one of us all - three degrees, a long and illustrious job history in senior management, some personal tragedy, and now a house painter dreaming big dreams in a basement suite: "Well, I don't think he caused the building boom, but he certainly took advantage of it, and so am I. I'd vote for him again if I thought business would stay good."
Sez the flake - ran several small businesses into success, now rents suites in his own buildings, coaches others on personal success, meddles intolerably in affairs of the heart and of the metaphysical; "Anybody who'd waste our dollars on a party like the Olympics when there are so many other useful things we could be doing with them isn't worth my time."
And me? I just smile and nod and ask the telling question: not "Who will win the next election" but "Who would you vote for?"
In variations, ("I'd vote for the person with the best chance of defeating that smarmy asshole" I counted as a vote for James) it went 5-2 against Gordo.
zalm
4 years ago
Rebuke the Luke
Might not mean much to you though! :)
That's because thinking like that equals budget deficit, and you're also on record as being against those.
Your own quotes from Kilian's "Dying for the Rich". Please don't kid yourself. As GWest says, you're a fiscal conservative - your social conscience stops as soon as you leave the keyboard. I admire your twists and turns of logic, I like to think that you would like to care about the poor and less fortunate even if your mutual funds were declining instead of growing, but the evidence suggests otherwise.
I like your handle, by the way. Luke, the third of the accepted Gospel writers, wrote on the themes of universality of God's love and justice for all, and had a special concern for the poor (NIV). He detailed more of Jesus' parables on the poor than any other gospel writer, and any other Pseudepigraphical author as well.
Any particular reason you chose it?
zalm
4 years ago
Simple simon
Is this a trick question? Neither one gets any taxes - Alabama doesn't collect taxes on tax breaks it gave Mercedes, and Ontario doesn't collect any either. Alabama's unemployment statistics don't look any better, because its welfare rolls were not reduced. People got work - from out of state. Promises notwithstanding, people on welfare don't get jobs at Mercedes - only people with former auto experience who are now out of work in Michigan or California, so they move to where the jobs are.
...jobs at lower wage rates, with no seniority, forced overtime, no retirees health benefits, or treatment of temporary workers.
Alabama lost out big time. The 1200 workers pay only $8 million in payroll taxes to the state. Virtually no secondary suppliers were attracted to the state. Yet the state had to shell out $65 million to prepare for the plant, an estimated $230 million in foregone taxes over the ten year tax holiday, and a suit has been filed to find out how much more money in hidden payments and costs Alabama still has to shell out for the plant.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/28/mercedes-benz-plant-may-be-first-in-alabama-to-unionize/
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E03E4D71738F932A3575AC0A960958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1
http://www.al.com/specialreport/mobileregister/index.ssf?contract/nobid2.html
Alabama, once again, won the race to the bottom. Impressive victory, eh?
Sheesh....every time your mouth opens, more flies come out.....
ME2
4 years ago
Untitled
Damn. I'm falling in love with Zalm. Why did she have to tell us she's married?
zalm
4 years ago
Luke
Not so. The industry is expected to contribute royalties of $10 billion over the period 2006-2010 (BC Budget figures), or about $2 billion a year, against which they receive credits against those royalties of $1 billion for drilling deep or marginal wells, and building roads and infrastructure. These credits are cost -neutral, meaning that they compensate the industry dollar-for-dollar on what they spend to prepare and maintain the site for extraction.
www.cucbc.com/publications/economics/pdf/otherreports/BC%20budget%202007.pdf
The Ministry of FInance made target in 2006, lost money in 2007, and is on track to make its target in 2008. No windfalls here.
Corporate taxes paid cannot be quantified. No help for your argument there. Although, if you want to guesstimate, the national industry reported $9 billion of gross profits in 2006, and if you take share of market for BC (15%) as share of gross profits, then taxes paid on $1.35 billion of gross profits would be $250 million. But net profits are always less - sometimes much, much less.
And payroll taxes for an industry of almost 10,000 only amounts to about $150 million a year.
www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/DATA/dd/handout/naicsann.pdf
Net benefit to the province last year (2007) of oil & gas and related activities: $1.77 billion in royalties plus $150 million in payroll taxes, less $200 million in royalty credits, plus substantially less than $250 million in corporate taxes paid. Barely $2 billion.
Please don't use made-up and bogus statistics in your arguments - it's beneath you, and it's a tremendous disservice to readers here.
zalm
4 years ago
Costing policy? Mmmmpphh...snicker...GUFFAW!!!
City person asks some good questions:
Unfortunately, the premise is a little sideways, and so is the poster for suggesting that the NDP give to him what the BC Fiberals refused to do in 2001. It's not a matter of costing it out, it's merely to make the assertion that the costs can easily be borne by the province out of existing revenue and assets. This is the tactic that was used by the BC Fiberals in 2001, and the NDP would do well to adopt it.
After all, in 2001, there was no costing out of any of Campbell's promises, and no meaningful review of them. Not that he kept any of them. Remember? Campbell claimed he couldn't cost out his promises until he had a look at the government's books. He asked the voters to buy a pig in a poke. And, City Person, I'll bet you were one of the half a million who did.
No price on the sale of BC Rail - in fact - a promise not to sell BC rail. We never saw the supposed $1 billion for the sale - where did it go?
A vague promise of "protect BC Hydro and all its core assets" was immediately broken, and never costed. No accounting for the sale of the assets to Accenture either.
No cost of tax cuts, nor of reductions in other income supports to pay for them.
No costing of education promises, even the vague "promise to protect education funding".
No costing of building 5000 new extended care beds by 2006, not that it matters because only 200 were ever built even up to the current day. This one really pisses me off, because our society has been trying to get 125 badly-needed beds built since 2003 and has gotten only bafflegab, "review" delay, and increasing costs, all government-caused or -inspired.
No costing of increasing apprenticeships through ITAC. Doesn't matter - he closed ITAC and then signed an agreement in principle to import workers from other countries.
Shall I go on? No? Yes? Do I hear you saying you really want to know the costing of all the BC Fiberals promises in 2001?
zalm
4 years ago
Yes, you really DO want me to go on...
Gordo said "No more feel-good advertising". Broke that one right away, and it costs us an unknown amount each year. No costing either way.
Gordo said "No expansion of gambling, and support for families caught by its effects." No costing, and massive expansion - another broken promise. And no additional funding for gambling addictions until a 2005 promise that was also immediately broken after the election. Gambling addiction is now a municipal responsibility to fund.
Gordo said "More flexibility in Employment Standards" No costing provided. No details provided. But if the public knew that a $6 wage was part of the deal, do you think they would have voted him in?
Gordo said "Support and fund a tuition fee reduction and further freeze for post secondary institutions" Kept it for one year, then broke it massively.
Gordo said "The most open and accountable government"....where? In Iran? Total secrecy after the first two years? But no costs, and with the Auditor General's budget cut first - no costing for the saving either.
zalm
4 years ago
And in 2005...
....nothing but lies about costs.
Convention centre will cost $500 million. WRONG.
RAV isn't necessary for the Olympic bid, WRONG.
... but now it is and the cost will only be $1.35 billion. WRONG.
Colleges and airports don't need to donate to the BC Liberals to get access to cabinet ministers and gain funding for projects not previously costed. WRONG.
Pitt River bridge was to cost $180 million - now turned into Gateway at a cost of $2 billion. WRONG AGAIN.
Said they would operate a surplus each year - yet total government borrowing and debt has gone up each year by $3 billion. What kind of accounting is that? BC now owes twice as much in debt as when the NDP left power in 2001.
All the NDP needs to do is promise that their campaign promises can be paid for out of existing taxes. It's a feel-good story just like the Fiberals' yarns of 2001 and 2005.
Who wouldn't buy it? Besides City Person?
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Zalm....
It would help if you could get your facts and figures straight! lol
For example:
Nope. The Pitt River Bridge is a "stand-alone project" of the North Perimeter Road (Mary Hill Bypass and Hwy 7 upgrades).
The design/build contract is $198 million.
Gateway, comprising the new SFPR, the NFPR, and the twinning of the Port Mann Bridge/Hwy 1 widening is in total approximately $3 billion.
Fiscal year ending March 31, 2001:
Taxpayer Supported Debt: $24.953 billion
Total Debt (inc. crowns):$33.835 billion
http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/OCG/cfa/PA/00-01/PA%202001%20Debt.pdf
Fiscal Year ending March 31, 2007
Taxpayer Supported Debt: $25.874 billion
Total Debt (inc. crowns):$33,347 billion
http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/OCG/cfa/PA/00-01/PA%202001%20Debt.pdf
Ergo, since the NDP left power, an increase in taxpayer-supported debt of ~$900 million and a decrease in overall debt by ~$500 million.
BTW, remember those huge tax increases brought in by finance minister Glen Clark under Harcourt in 1992??... ~28 separate tax increases that made BC one of the highest taxed jurisdictions in North America?
Them taxes personal/corporate have also all been brought back to pre-1991 levels.
G West
4 years ago
Sorry Luke Skywalker
We've been there before. Now, follow the bouncing ball - total tax supported debt - hidden and in plain view, including contractual obligations is....
$55 Billion.
We covered this yesterday - remember. I won't embarrass you by providing the links again - just check with the Bureau - as for the rest of zalm's post - I think you need to read it a lot more carefully....nowhere did Zalm say that the Pitt River project would cost $2 billion - he did say that 'gateway' would and I expect that's a very conservative estimate.
If the costs to the environment of another 20 years of road centered insanity are factored in, I'd say it will be incalculable.
If the CEO Premier's glee club could forget who and what they are clapping for it might be possible to turn this train around. Merely propping up the current insanity with factoids isn't helping their cause.
I guess Carole Taylor hasn't sent you the briefing note yet.
I welcome respectful comments to my posts here at Tyee.
G West
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Ohhhh Geeee West...
Finance is obviously not your forte. lol
Unlike the NDP, which did not show long-term contractual obligations in its annual financial reports... ya know... the future annual contractual obligations for annual BC Ferry subsidies, highway maintenance contracts, office space and equipment rental, BC hydro IPP payments, etc., etc...
those figures are now included in financial reporting.
It's simply more transparent.
Those future contractual obligations:
2008: $5.4 billion
2009: $3.367 billion
2010: $3.148 billion
2011: $3.066 billion
2012: $3.119 billion
Source: BC Auditor General, Report on the 2006/2007 Public Accounts, March, 2008;
And after those annual financial contractual obligations become due and owing during the relevant fiscal year?
The government is still in surplus mode.
Imagine that!
G West
4 years ago
Well
I happen to disagree - Full disclosure means full disclosure and that's what you didn't provide.
As I pointed out.
By the way, I've checked that offensive button on you again - it's G West. I’m going to do it every time you refer to me in a disrespectful fashion – those are the rules for commenting here and you’re not observing them.
Now, since I have your attention, and you pretend to know your way around a balance sheet, could you please point out to Tyee readers what the actual gain the BC taxpayers earned on the sale of BC Rail.
It certainly wasn't the $ 1 billion that our CEO premier claimed at the time.
And no, it's not a trick question.
The information is public and readily available.
I wonder exactly how media monitors work.
DO they send a list of questions that one needs answers to along to the Bureau each morning and then wait for the appropriate answers?
Of course, you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West.
Frank
4 years ago
Luke, nice try
Not exactly, it is not just a case of declaring the obligations now. The number grew by 27 billion dollars in one year.
The Vancouver Sun says
"Under the heading 25.(d) -- Contractual Obligations -- the report noted the total this year for internal government and Crown corporations and agencies this year was $55,232, not that different from the Starbucks bill except for the bit of small type at the top of the table that noted that the figures were in millions of dollars.
Looking back at last year's Public Accounts, I found the comparable figure to be $27,586, again with the note that it was in millions.
What does that mean? It means that in the past fiscal year alone the provincial government and its various affiliates added more than $27 billion in bills that will come due for taxpayers in coming years, bringing the total future obligation to more than $55 billion."
And yes I realize its the Sun and not BC Report so it might be considered an extreme left-wing source.
Frank
4 years ago
zalm
Great posts!
Frank
4 years ago
What is a "contractural obligation"?
I thought it would be good to explain what that is.
From the Sun (no friend of the NDP) :
"When the Liberals made it policy that all future electrical generating capacity would be purchased from independent power producers, for example, it was so that BC Hydro would no longer continue to pile up debt.
In this year's Public Accounts we see the fallout from that decision. Hydro added another $15 billion to its contractual obligations to purchase electricity from private producers through multi-year contracts.
The total future obligation is now $28 billion for energy purchases."
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Nice Try Frank...
If you would have had the chance to read the auditor general's report, long-term contractual obligations were first included in fiscal year ending March 31, 2006, and further long-term financial obligations were also added (not included in the previous year but should have been) for the following fiscal year ending March 31, 2007.
Now a smart guy like you, utilizing the "reasonableness test", should be able to discern that all of a sudden $27 billion in additional long-term obligations didn't come out of thin air "poof", esp. a huge number like that. ;)
Rather, most of that should have also been added in the previous fiscal year.
Still a hell of alot more transparent than the 1990's though, eh? :)
morechatter
4 years ago
Premier Carol James?
I like it! It has a nice ring to it. Voters who are going to take special note of the NDP leader are those who are looking for a premier who is there for them and is open to there concerns and issues. Instead of a slick land developer turned premier who is there for himself and those poor,rich corporations that he gives all the breaks to. I wonder why that is? At first I wasn't sure about the NDP's choice but she sure has come along way and you just know you are going to be heard. James is real thats what it is and I just don't see her huddled with corporate CEO's as thick as thieves. No don't see her there but I do see her out and about listening and doing what she can to make a difference in the average citizens life. And what about those poor rich corporations well don't worry about them to much they got so much money and this government has pretty much given them everything they could possible want.
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank... Hmmmmm
So explain the 500 MW 5th generating station currently under construction at Revelstoke, with the 6th 500 MW generating station still under review?
And the 4th and 5th generating stations at the Revelstoke dam currently under ea (submitted in March, 2008) with a combined capacity of 1,000 MW?
And the $6 billion Site C dam, with 900 MW, currently in the public consulation phase?
Can't be done for free! :)
Frank
4 years ago
Luke
Sounds like you think the Sun is misinformed and you want the author's email address?
cmcinnes@png.canwest.com
Luke Skywalker
4 years ago
Frank...
Ever heard of bad or incorrect reporting in the Sun, Province, or even the Tyee? ;)
I've seen lots over 20 years.
G West
4 years ago
I've seen a lot of it too
Starting with the coverage of the Nanaimo Commonwealth Holding Society and Glen Clark's deck. And I could think of a couple others as well.
Funny how your tune changes when someone else is playing the drum Luke Skywalker.
Hasn't the Bureau got back to you on the BC Rail thing?
I welcome respectful comments to my posts at Tyee.
G West
G West
4 years ago
morechatter
good points - and thank you - I think some of our rightist friends are starting to get a little worried.
cheers.
G West