bout time

This is way over do.

We need policing which not only protects from from petty crooks and neighborhood criminal elements, but also corporate criminals, and corrupt politicians. Any time any of the top dogs fall it's because of a whistleblower from the ranks, just like when a top mafia type gets nailed it's because someone sings.
Where is the policing?
Four cops to subdue one person, who within the time it takes to spit was killed dead. Were they all too busy at something else and had to stop in order to deal with the unruly guy? Were they angry? I am.

Radical but Weak

A radical (dare I say sensational?) statement that made me tune into what Kilian had to say.

Unfortunately the article itself doesn't live up to its promise.

The "proof" against the RCMP amounts to about the same as citing deaths or casualties as a critique of the military.

Any police force will accidentally kill and have its officers accidentally killed. A more nuanced approach might discuss how that such deaths can be minimized (perhaps drawing links to a different organizational form??).

The rest is just poor. It'd be intriguing to see an indepth comparison of the RCMP to Hoover's FBI... not just insinuation.

I'm in support of a critical review of the RCMP - but this piece is short on that and it doesn't bother defining much about the after-RCMP either... Next time, don't bite off more than you can chew.

Zaccardelli

Commissioner Zaccardelli giving 'incorrect testimony' to Parliament should be included on this list of events.

Any solution will be appear over-the-top at first glance. This article is a good start.

Its so unfortunate...

to see that Crawford Julian hasn't given a true assessment in looking at what the RCMP would be replaced with. If the journalist did, Crawford would see that people will still suffer in isolated incidents here and there at the hands of law enforcement regardless of what kind of enforcement system it is.

I don't mean to come across as fearful of us moving towards the way the U.S. governs law enforcement, but abuse does most certainly happen there as well. And it does for most nations world wide. Perhaps all nations. Where does Canada compare and contrast with nations world wide?

I'm sorry, but I don't see any links, any hard facts provided in the story, other than a writer offering an opinion piece and unfortunately, thats all it is. No budget breakdowns or which level of government ends up paying for it, no talk of standards that would, could or should be adopted... no talk of alternative systems or models of other nations and their own pro's and cons, no talk really of all the "good" things the RCMP has done over the years, really, other than "its not perfect or modern, its time to go". Let the contracts expire, privatize and shuffle the expenses to the provinces and adopt something more like the states... like Stephen Harper wants.

Dismiss entirely, the advantages unification and universality provides in law enforcement... wage standards and benefits, just decentralize law enforcement... this kind of stuff, by the way, makes no sense when really seeing what kind of bang for your buck service wise one gets when it goes from non profit to "for profit", and it makes no sense to decentralize federal powers and spending to this extreme with such an essential service as this.

The alternative to government run, in case anyone hasn't noticed, is "for profit". The results are only as good, from there, as what the provinces or municipalities themselves, provide in terms of standards and spending which has a habit of varying widely... a tax shuffle and dodge for a system that as of yet, remains unproven, with a high risk of varying standards from province to province and municipality, just like it is... from county to county and state to state. And whats next... the justice system?

Opinion piece like this one, I just don't like for under the surface, they attack central power replacing them with decentralization and deregulation in favor of "for profit" of of an ESSENTIAL SERVICE which I am most definitely not a fan of. Whats next... the penal system? Lets just sell it all off. Sure it worked, but its dated, right? (shaking my head)

Cont.

Law enforcement as it stands, is a service provided by the tax payer for the taxer. In other words, its provided by the government and it should be. Thats what governments are for. Good governments govern, plain and simple. Bad ones, get smaller and let everything just... self regulate. Let the corporations regulate themselves. No need to regulate or introduce standards... Bad politicians push their governments to get government out of price fixing for the consumer so that corporation's and private interests can go for the jugular for profit on ESSENTIAL SERVICES. Often, its a politicians best friend. And bad writers support them.

Yes, there is plenty wrong with an opinion piece like this one... no real facts... just bias opinion based on isolated bad examples of failure which, ironically, since humans are flawed, happens in the best of systems.

I will say this, though. Screening for RCMP graduates should be much more strict than it is now. I think its become evident that a whole lot more should be done in terms of training, evaluation and standards. The RCMP most certainly isn't faultless, especially in their own holding celss and airports as of late...

lorne mccuaig
Revelstoke, BC

The new world order

Before a government can be trusted to clean up the RCMP, it better clean up itself first.

btw, Sharing is Good, some absolutely excellent questions you are posing to Mr. Kilian. I agree with you completely.

Have "things" been set-up to fail so the shift towards a provincial police force becomes suddenly more acceptable to the Canadian public? ....and so that presto!....another sly NAU step (and an important one) towards synchronization with the US is achieved.... before anyone realizes what is really at play in the coming new world order.

RCMP

Well, Kilian misrepresents the facts, then wants to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Good thinking. The problems with the RCMP are directly related to political interference and political pandering to minorities and special interest groups. It was the liberal-minded politicians that demanded change in the personnel make-up of "the Force". 1 of 5 RCMP members are now female, 1 of 7 are now "diversified" and it is ALL aesthetics. Absenteeism is rampant, work ethic and productivity is non-existent, training and physical proficiency standards have been reduced to accommodate "diversification". NOW all we have are weak-kneed little mounties who NEED tasers to handle ANYTHING.
Now Kilian thinks "provincial police" are the answer ?? Take an objective look at thew OPP and the QPP BEFORE making that recommendation! Take a look at a certain Attorney General's hands-on approach to Gustafsen Lake, BEFORE making that recommendation! Take a look at the OPP's killing of Dudley George because a premier couldn't control his anger or his mouth, BEFORE you want to kick the RCMP out.

Policing

In the context of policing, the authour of this report is either ignorant or simply is not aware of what policing is today.

Police officers are human, they are trained to attempt to keep the peace, to refrain others from both hurting themselves and others, to investigate crime which today is incredibly complex. The are, no matter what police force, confronted with events that required almost instantaneous reaction. Very likely the RCMPolice are the best trained law enforcement agency there is.

We have not yet adopted the US enforcement methods where the police draw their weapons, and if someone twitcher, shoot to kill. We do not see the RCMPolice, or other law enforcement agencies use their batons to bash rowdies to a pulp like in the United States.

To be a police officer today is not an easy job, and for the most part they do their job. In many cases, their job is hampered by the failure of the judicial system, by nitwits demanding that all be politically correct.

Yes the RCMP members in the recent YVR incident, could have made a different decision but I think that story is still unfinished.

Yes we can increase the civilian oversight, as they did in the US, although I am not certain that will solve anything.

The very vast majority of events that the police deal with are solved in a professional manner, however some events do go very wrong, but they are very few indeed.

RCMP

Surely to god the best trained police officers in the world wouldn't have a 4:1 advantage against an unarmed man and have to kill him within 30 seconds of meeting him? The RCMP are clearly not the best trained in the world.

They're killing people. They're tasering old men. They're screwing up cases. They've become involved in politics for their own ends.

On the other hand I think provincial police forces are a terrible way to go. Ontario and Quebec are living proof.

The RCMP needs to be completely rebuilt and brought under civilian, but not political, control.

We need a group separate from both government and the police themselves to run the RCMP, set internal policies and police the police.

But it can't be another home for Canadian political hacks either. Its not impossible to build checks and balances into a system, we just have to put some thought into it.

We deserve a better police force than what we have.

Brain

Where did you get this? Kilian mentioned nothing about for-profit. He only said that police have to pass a new "virtues" test (much good may that do) and then apply to provincial forces, which I don't agree with.

I think a national force must be maintained - the root cause of so many Canadian inefficiencies is the federal/provincial separation of powers that interferes with normal functioning of almost every aspect of government.

This recipe is a little heave on salt

I'd agree substantially with Kilian's premise and recipe (except for the provincial forces as mentioned above) but one thing I disagree strongly with is:

Cops do not have to draw their guns for every encounter. They ought to be prepared, and there is considerable doubt about how good the information given to the four in Mayerthorpe was about how dangerous the wanted man was, but in Canada, disputes are still largely solved by non-violent means.

Policing will always be in inexact science, and while I regret the loss of any police officer's life, I still maintain it is their duty to show up at all situations not obviously violent in nature to any and all around them with guns firmly in holsters, civilian auxiliaries firmly on leash, and discussion and respect the order of the day. There will be enough situations where guns must be the first order of business without making it the first order of EVERY business. That is a Wild-West attitude Canada can scarcely afford to adopt.

Don't like it? Move south, bubba, and take at least one imported-arms or drug dealer with you when you go.

disband the RCMP?

Does the RCMP actually have a special affinity with its history? Does it have a self-same institutional identity that would connect it to the RCMP of 1873 or 1919? Yes, for sure, but through a different "historical consistency" than Kilian admits, namely, the consistency of its basic social function as a police institution in a class-divided society. The RCMP is a police force in a society ordered by capitalism and all, and so no doubt it will be violent. The RCMP should be disbanded, but if that were to take place - Kilian's is only a hypothetical indulgence, of course, for effect - without a transformation of aggressive capitalism-patriarchy, the insitution that replaces the RCMP will only have a clean slate to better advance the older ways of 'keeping the peace.' We should not that Kilian is comfortable discussing the class role of the RCMP in the past (murder at Winnipeg general strike, etc) but not in the present. What about the 100 RCMP officers sent to Haiti to train the Haitian National Police (HNP) following the Canada-led coup in 2004 against Haiti's immensely popular internally-approved democratically elected leader Jean Bertrand Aristide? The HNP is currently reported as one of the worst human-rights abusing institutions in Haiti.

(On the subject of disbandment: Aristide had disbanded the Haitian Army in the mid-90's because there were too many war criminals and junta right-wing types in the military. When the army was disbanded, the rightists fled to neighbording Dominican Republic. The US-Canada-France coup took place the month after those right wing forces tried staging a coup in Feb. 2004. Their small insurgency would not have been successful had US-Canada-France not interevened, basically on their behalf, or at least on behalf of the small Haitian business elite who stood to benefit from a coup against sort-of-socialist Aristide. Aristide was forced to leave the country and resign from incoomucado on an American airplane. Since then, the rightists and paramilitaries have been re-incorporating themselves into the HNP, trained by the RCMP.)

Control Cops

Pierre Bourque has posted this thread. Maybe we need some Canada wide input.

I believe that the RCMP can be reformed. I am a strong critic of policing as it stands, with the inherent excessive force, false arrests, service refusals, surly attitudes, etc, but it can be reformed once we put controls on police services.

I would start by forcing quick investigations of public complaints, and ensuring that coverup and whitewash conduct is itself subject to criminal penalty.

Agreed, apollyon. Is there

Agreed, apollyon.

Is there even the faintest possibility of the RCMP being disbanded? No.

And it doesn't really delve into what exactly has gone wrong with "police culture" and how to prevent it. What are other jurisdictions doing? It's a big topic, and there's no lack of research in the area.

This article boils down to a list of complaints, nothing more.

The example must come from the top

I would not worry about the new candidates as much as the existing direction of the RCMP as we all as who directs them in their actions. I am quite surprised that the author left the Zaccardelli affair out of this. The ranks learn very quickly how to get away from their misdeeds when a better example does not come from above. Déjà-vu elsewhere???

from the frying pan into the fire . . .

I can't believe what the author is suggesting: go to provincial police forces? get a grip, look at the track record of the OPP or the Quebec police force. And it was the RCMP that cracked the Willy Pickton case not the Vancouver police force, who were deep in denial.

And a provincial police force reporting to the BC Liberals?!? now there is a nightmare in the making, Basi-Virk would NEVER have seen the light of day.

Like other posters I also wonder if the RCMP are being set up to fail. The RCMP is a potent symbol of Canada, disbanding them might aid those who want Canada to become part of the U.S.

Unquestionably the RCMP has some significant problems.

However their reputation and operational effectivness can be improved by two actions:

1. independence from political interference; having the top guy report to the Prime Minister, who also appoints him, is nutty. And William Elliot is Harper's hand-picked buddy to boot.

2. have an independent complaints commission, one with clout, to investigate complaints against the RCMP and the power to impose sanctions.

The RCMP investigating itself has damaged its reputation. Officers who make mistakes shouldn't be tarred and feathered but there should be impartial investigations, consequences and recommendations.

Complaints

Mr Harper, prior to becoming Prime Minister, was not reluctant to push a certain point of view relative to the value of centralized, as opposed to provincial control, of many institutions.

Remember this:

As unity critic in 1995 for the now-defunct Reform party, Harper proposed 20 measures to "modernize and decentralize Canada" and to "assert the autonomy of the provinces." He wanted to transfer federal powers in nine areas - including natural resources, social services, language, culture and manpower training - exclusively to the provinces and forbid any new federal spending in areas of provincial jurisdiction.

He also proposed giving provincial governments the power to appoint Supreme Court judges, Bank of Canada board members and lieutenant-governors.

During a hiatus from politics in 2001, Harper exhibited outright antipathy toward federal authority, famously co-authoring a letter to Alberta's then-premier, Ralph Klein.

In it, he argued it was essential to "build firewalls around Alberta to limit the extent to which an aggressive and hostile federal government can encroach upon legitimate provincial jurisdiction."

[Quoted from the Kingston Whig-Standard, article by Joan Bryden, April 2, 2007.]

Later in the same piece Bryden quoted
Constitutional expert Michael Behiels, making the connection to Quebec and Dumont

"[Harper's] going to be very, very cagey. He's not going to play his cards on this question of devolution until he has a majority."

Moreover, the University of Ottawa historian thinks Harper is unlikely to pursue the matter until Dumont, who will play a pivotal role in determining the fate of Quebec's new minority Liberal government, is actually in the driver's seat.

Even then, Behiels doubts Harper would ever be able to meet the ADQ demands, at least as spelled out in the Allaire report, without setting off a furor in the rest of the country and risking his own political demise.

"The alarm bells would go off, especially in Ontario," Behiels says.

"People would say, 'Wow, this really is the hidden agenda ... which is the total kind of gutting of the national state, reducing it to really a shell or a banker for asymmetrical federalism, with every province going its own way."

There is a complaints procedure.

Individuals can make their views known in a formal way:

http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/DefaultSite/Reppub/index_e.aspx?articleid=1587

Collective action from members of the public in such a forum would make a more lasting impression than just coming here to vent.

Not that I'm discouraging venting!

The Free Marketplace of Ideas

While we heard about the free market place of ideas south of the border, rarely do we get to see any examples. Certainly not with Canada's media monopolies. But with the revitalization of journalism thriving in the internet, we can now return to a time when ideas can be proffered, and discussed and considered. That's the point. Like Marshall McEwen said: the medium IS the message.

As to this particular idea, a couple of thoughts. First, is there precedent for a wholesale dismissal of an enforcement body to be replaced by hand picked new recruits? Indeed there is. Directed on high from the US government, this is exactly what is happening in Iraq. Unfortunately, their motives are far inferior to Mr. Killian's, yet it demonstrates the notion itself cannot be dismissed as unheard of, because our neighbours to the south are implementing just such a scheme. So that raises the next question; could there be merit in such a bold make-over? Of course there could. Like every societal challenge the world over, there are benefits and there are risks.

The final question is, do we have a current administration that has any interest in creating a more just enforcement agency? Sadly, we do not. Certainly not under Gordon Campbell's BC Liberals, and not under Harper's neo conservatives.

But its an idea, one which can be considered, discussed and perhaps polished. One day, its time may come, and Canadians can return to having great pride in a just policing agency.

Good stuff Tyee and Mr. Killian. This is the Fourth Estate doing its job!

The rot is at the core. I

The rot is at the core. I feel sorry for the rank and file members of the force who are trying to do a good job. The rot basically started under Mulroney's watch when the government of the day added the status of the Commissioner of the RCMP to also Deputy Minister to the Soliciter General. If the Minister asks a specific question, ie, are any MP's under investigation? The Commissioner must answer truthfully; before his change of status, he didn't have to answer. If you happen to have a chat with a former member of the RCMP ask them why they left the force.

agreed - but we need a G.I. Bill not punishment

More like what returning WWII soldiers in the US received - retiring RCMP members could either simply retire with a modest stipend or we can provide them with the funds to finish an undergraduate degree.

that would be less toxic and more agreeable - I am a longtime opponent of Prohibition, btw, which has kept the RCMP in business long past their best-before date.

Tips For Canadian Citizens On How To Survive An Encounter With The RCMP - good list of RCMP abuses in past and present, scroll down
http://cannabisculture.com/articles/5074.html

Police Are the Prohibitionist Lobby in Canada
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4684.html

Why the RCMP just won't change
http://tinyurl.com/yfh9ex

try this for last link...

http://tinyurl.com/yqa4fd

Reorganization works wonders...

...at burying problems.

The solution is not to reinvent the police but to keep the public's eye on them.

It is a bad thing that the RCMP tasered the guy to death. It is a good thing, ultimately, that someone was there with a camera. Scrutiny and exposure help bring about transparency, accountability, and professionalism.

It sounds like I am stumping for a panopticon culture, but not really. It's not about Big Brother watching us, but everyone watching everyone -- village culture writ global.

you forgot one

Couldn't agree more with your conclusion to disband the RCMP. After all the Airborn regiment was disbanded for a lot less.

You did forget another RCMP triumph of incompetence, their complacent, malevolent and very public inquest on François Beaudoin, the former head of the Federal Development Bank. His crime was refusing a loan to a crony of then PM Jean Chrétien, for a hotel in... Shawinigan. He was publicly hounded out of office and when he sued, the judge found against the government and singled out the RCMP's cavalier and disrespectful conduct. I don't remember how much the whole mess cost us taxpayers, but there was the RCMP right in the thick of it.

We have no recourse...

Sadly, disbanding the RCMP and starting fresh would not solve the problems. It requires more than just an over-haul of that system; it requires true civilian oversight of ALL police in this country. Currently we have ineffectual groups over-seeing the police and we have the RCMP essentially overseeing itself. But, here is where the fun starts...the RCMP have actually infiltrated our supposed civilian oversight systems. The Office of the Police Complaints Commissioner here in BC is staffed largely by ex-RCMP and it's a well known fact that once you've been behind the thin blue line you never truly get to come out from behind it. Even now, when a complaint is filed against municipal police (like the VPD) it is ex-RCMP officers who are handling the complaint. If you disband the RCMP where will all those officers go? Into the municipal police forces, into the civilian oversight agencies, into CSIS, into Customs. They won't go gently into that good night...they don't now when they leave the RCMP voluntarily. They just become the Deputy Police Complaints Commissioner which allows them to be a pro-police media spokes-person.

We should be ashamed for allowing the RCMP to have hi-jacked even our civilian oversight processes.

good point TTTT but...

...I hate to be reactionary myself, but it almost seems as if ex-RCMP need to be de-programmed before being allowed into any other position outside of the RCMP. They just can't seem to seperate themselves from the "troop" mentality. They become toxic components of the civilian positions they then take on.

How is it possible to call the Office of the Police Complaints Commissioner a "civilian oversight agency" when they employ virutally no civilians? Once a cop always a cop and the OPCC is a prime example of how ex-RCMP can never truly leaves the policing community. Look at the position they took on the West Van drunk/driving cop, or any number of their other public comments - they're pro-cop because they are all ex-cops. It's a biased office populated by ex-cops, not a civilian oversight agency.

Re-training or retirement won't change that. They will still be RCMP...just in new jobs just like what you see at the OPCC.

This is a case of.....

....'if it's broke, fix it'. The cost of implementing a new provincial/regional police force(s) would just be a waste of money with no guarantee that any of the issues mentioned in the article would be resolved.

All police forces need attitude adjustments from time to time, not just the RCMP. If you want to spend money then do it for that reason. Tune them up. Don't scrap them.

Cont.

Police services are essential. And if handed over the the provinces, the standards and budgets would obviously vary from province to province. How would Campbell handle it never mind the rest of the premiers of this country? He would likely shuffle off the tax burden and expenses to the municipalities. And when I think about it, its not all far off from "pay as you go" from there. Its what the U.S. has done with virtually every essential service they've got. And like Lynn and others, I can't say I'm big on seeing it come North of our border here, which is what a schemed U.S. economic takeover of Canada means.

Agreed as well with Snert on this one. Tune 'em up. Don't scrap 'em.

no other country relies on a single large force

@ the brain "And if handed over the the provinces, the standards and budgets would obviously vary from province to province."

the same goes for everything else in Canada so what's your point? Besides, Ontario and Quebec do it and they represent over 60% of the population. To tell you the truth the Quebec police do better job for us here than the RCMP seem to be doing in BC and Alberta.

As for the US threat, that's pretty rich. We have to put up with a third rate police force because... were afraid of being taken over by the US, come on. They, the US that is, have the FBI, state police in every state, border patrol etc etc while in Canada ( outside QC and Ont) we ask one force to all.

Keep the RCMP but...

I am reluctant to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Most rank and file members try very hard and the few who make serious mistakes or who are politically driven give the rest a bad name. I think we should have an oversight group deal ruthlessly with any who do their job based on politics or personal beliefs which do not allow for impartial and honest law enforcement. Get rid of them at all levels. For those who make serious errors in judgment based on personality flaws or poor training they should be sent back to a different profession.

Change the mentality and change it quickly. Start teaching RCMP recruits some people skills and send the others back for upgrading. Demand changes in attitude. Old time and basic common sense police/helping techniques still work but take time And members need to be encouraged to go the extra mile and be rewarded for their efforts. Just imagine how grateful the family would have been if they had been reunited.

I am not forgetting that the Airport management also completely failed in their responsibility to a traveler. Did no one see the same person wandering around for those hours? They are suppose to be an international airport so let them provide the service that would qualify them for that designation.

Four RCMP and not one took the initiative to try to communicate. It is a colossal failure and it should never have happened! The RCMP needs to change and change now.

Not enough!

It's already been said, but it bears repeating.
First of all, this article lacks in-depth research and new information. I realize that it is filed under "Views", but an issue this critical to the maintenance of a peaceful and just society should not merely be commented on. It should be dug into, tooth and nail.
Secondly, the RCMP is not going to be disbanded anytime soon, however the creation of a sharp-toothed, citizen-based review board is realistic. Any situation that results in a death should be investigated by this board. In the case of the RCMP Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre, who told reporters a bald-faced lie when he described the YVR incident, he should be harshly penalized for his actions.
Peace
JMGD

The problem is not the RCMP,

The problem is not the RCMP, but the lack of accountability and public control over the RCMP. The same goes for government, but at least they can be voted out.

Power corrupts, that's all there's to it and unless it is under constant surveillance, it can become a deadly weapon against society that sets it up for its own protection.

Even if the RCMP were disbanded, the new force, or forces, would have the same members, just as after WW2 both the East and West German armies have been built on and by a former Wehrmacht officer corps.

Professionals are professionals, regardless of faith, race and colour. People who are born to be cops will be cops, just as dentists, or scientists, or economics, or priests of any and all religions.

What we need is an independent policing body keeping tight checks over the police.

Ed Deak.

Time to disband the RCMP

No, I certainly don't agree with this suggestion. What is needed is to stop American 'police state' mentality taking over Canada. What is needed is to remove those who immitate the US 'macho' strong arm tactics. What is needed is to return to Canadian humane society. What is NOT needed are bullies.

not surprised

Can anyone truly object to what the RCMP are doing - I mean what the hell? - we have not fought to keep control. There is barely a service left in Canada that isn't now out of reach to everyone... if not because of deregulation then simply because that's the way the system is/was designed. I believe that we need concrete access to engage and amend systems of all types that serve us... we should decide. Who among the traditional political party leadership will advocate for true and thorough democratic access?

what about the airborne regiment ?

@Fiat Lux,

There was a big problem with the Airborne regiment, they were out of control and they were disbanded, I haven't heard of another similar problem since, even though the members of that regiment were dispersed inside the rest of the army.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. The RCMP are pretty much out of control. If it had not been for that video ( which the RCMP confiscated for a month) we probably would not have even heard about the taser incident. Then the spokesperson lies through his teeth to "" protect the force"" which has become the new motto. Zaccardelli spent 30 years protecting the force , mostly from itself, and rose to the top.

Trust & Respect, a two way street

The RCMP as individuals and an organization have lost their way. They seem to think that they are due infinite amounts of trust and respect --given their job this should be a no-brainer. Too bad they're wrong.

I've been brought to the point of tears and nausea by the outrageous murder of a distraught and confused man at YVR, never mind the execution style killing of helpless Ian Bush while in custody.

These are not the people I want serving and protecting me. Mr Killian says it well, it is the "straw on the camel's back".

The question is, is the devil we don't know any better than this red serge clad one we have now?

A Split Would Be Good.

I've been back in BC for 17 years now after working and living in almost every province and territory. I'm my opinion the RCMP in BC enjoy too much autonomy and a total lack of accountability. In provinces that have their own forces the RCMP does no go away they are required under Federal mandate to enforce the federal statutes that include: Firearms control, Drug and alcohol, Customs and excise, immigration etc. With a provincial force the RCMP and the federal government will be forced to pay their own expenses for transportation, communications, and facilities. Items that are currently paid for by the province and municipalities so they can provide general policing for province. In Courtenay for example as far as I have been able to determine the municipality provides the police station, computer system, radio and communication system and the leases for the cars. The Federal statutes are enforced at the provinces expense. The province pays the Federal government for the policing. There is no breakdown of what is being paid for. ICBC pays the shot for the seasonal drunk driver roadblocks that routinly nab people wanted in other jurisdictions or for federally controlled areas..

A provincial force following the type of structure that Ontario uses for their provincial force, the OPP. It could be a place to start looking. The Ontario force interfaces with the RCMP as required as well as the police forces of the larger cities. The Federal Government pays the full shot for the RCMP's facilities, communications and transport.

The RCMP police culture seems to have lost respect for the very citizens that they are charged to protect. It is not surprising then that given that lack of respect the criminal element of society that at one respected the authority of the force now considers them an open target

The frustration levels of

The frustration levels of the majority of police officers who cannot speak up against the rot have been recorded in a study and further support the systemic criticisms in the article.

Overall I thought the article sums up the gravity of the RCMP situation with great candour that is not seen often elsewhere. Surely then the justice and political systems have a great deal to answer for in their, we should assume complicity, with these facts and the opinions put forth in the article.

The fact that these police forces are allowed by order in council to break the law only reinforces my belief that we can expect more of the same.

Davey

Point is its an essential service and because its an essential service, it needs to be standardized and the best way to introduce standards federally lies with the federal government and its ability to legislate and deliver police service at a federal level. Without the RCMP in the rest of the provinces, there is no enforcement standard to measure against. Nothing to compare it to... except the other provinces. And then it comes down to the same old eggs in faces. This province is better than that one... and both Quebec and Ontario police have had their share of blunders, lets not be naive, we have memories don't we?

And its not just any Essential service. This is law enforcement. What can I say, I'm a strong federalist and this would be no less than a direct giveaway of federal powers to the provinces and this has major implications to how this nation is percieved and indeed, a part of what it is to be Canadian.

Getting back on track, it has the potential to help lead the way to the eventual fragmentation of this nation and what it stands for or provides. Do we want a shared embarassment with RC's, or do we want one with the provinces... if this same thing happened with provincial police anywhere in Canada, what would have been the thinking or response then? And guess what... it has. It just hasn't happened recently, or with a taser in an airport.

The long term risks and implications to a weakened and perhaps balkanized nation in the future is there. We can't ignore it. Decentralization of federal powers can come in big doses and its not exactly a secret that Harper's all for it. The arguments back when Quebec and Ontario went on their own are as valid today as they were then. To hand it over to the provinces paves the way for eventual separation of a province and a possible breaking away from shared intelligence due to budgets and legislation and thats not a small issue considering where this nation might be 50 years down the road... hardly something that a knee jerk reaction forced by the taser fiasco should create.

In hindsight, where have people been with the dangers of tasers to begin with? Its not like we didn't know of their potential danger to kill someone. We knew.

Oh, and did I forget to thank GWB for tigher enforcement and security ideology and pressure flexed on Canadian politics in airports here? How many hours did this polish dude spend in customs again? He didn't speak English or French. Must have been a threat. Thanks, GWB.

what is needed

I don't agree that disbanding the RCMP is the answer - what is top prevent its substitute(s) from following the same path?

The answer is, I think, what many have been calling for: an independent, civilian oversight agency - with teeth - to investigate RCMP and all police malfeasance and incompetence. Perhaps this oversight agency could be part of the judiciary to reduce political party interference.

Somehow we the public have to convey to our police that this is in everyone's best interests - we the people need police that we can trust and look up to to do a pro job, and to have the constitution and the charter of rights and freedoms as their bibles.

And the police themselves should feel better knowing that they serve the Canadian public with pride and honour, without influence from internal and/or political loyalties that make it possible for rogue officers (at any rank) to tarnish the entire image and credibility of law enforcement in Canada.

What's the Diff?

off-the-radar is concerned about:

It seems like we had the National Police Force keeping the BC Liberals well informed and taking marching orders from them regarding who to interview, or not, or who was suitable as suspects. As the Fox told the farmer inspecting the raided chicken house, "don't look at me!"

RCMP

The pending RCMP internal investigation doesn't impress me a bit. Standard Operating Practise is: Circle wagons, Go thru the motions, Exhonerate.
The police mindset is clearly shown by fellow officers leaping to defend the
actions of the YVR RCMP.

If the actions these officers took are in line with their training that is pretty scary. I believe the tactics used by them are offensive to most Canadians and are totally out of synch with how we expect a task like this to be handled.

But the issue of how this Polish fellow was treated at YVR is much bigger
than the incident itself. The big issue is the growing trend by police to
respond to situations like this with violence as a first rather than last
tactic. This attack was not an isolated incident. For several years now I've
been increasingly concerned with hasty police violence and I could give
example after example after example. The only difference between the YVR
incident and many others is that this one was caught on video.

I think the image many of us have or used to have of the stalwart police
officer calmly, reasonably but firmly dealing with situations to de-escalate
them and maintain public peace is now just a myth.

Sir Rober Peel laid down the principles for how civil police need to function at the establishment of the Royal Metropolitan Constabulary (London Bobbies) about 175 years ago: (Selections only)
*The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependant upon public
approval of police actions.
* The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes
proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
* Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of
the law or to restore order only when the exercise or persuation, advice and
warning has been found to be insufficient.

I think the public trust and approval of the police in Canada has already
beeen severely tested by this and many other recent police actions. I do not
believe that the police in Canada today function anywhere near what Sir
Robert Peel invisaged for a civil police force.

I believe the policing model in Canada needs to go in for a major refit,
starting with the RCMP.

RCMP

The taser incident at YVR was a terrible tragedy, however the RCMP are not the only ones who have to be accountable and take responsibility. They certainly didn't go there with the intent to kill someone nor do they ever go anywhere with the intent to kill. YVR must share the responsiblility and, indeed, sadly Mr. Dziekanski and his mother, as well. He was ill-prepared to travel and the whole thing was brought about by his behavior. Surely when one has three to seven years to plan a trip/move to a new country, one has time to learn a few basic words or phrases of that country. There are embassies that can be contacted prior to the trip, where questions about procedures can be answered. Millions of people travel to foreign countries and have long, and frustrating, waits at unfamiliar airports. Frustrations should not be expressed by throwing computers, chairs, yelling and ranting. Some common sense, and preparation, must prevail. I'm not, in any way, condoning what the RCMP did, or did not do, nor am I suggesting, in any way, that Mr. Dziekanski deserved to die for his behavior. However, there are more people and institutions that are responsible for this than just the RCMP. I DO wonder what the outcome would be if this happened at an international airport in Poland.

look higher ....

The point of a police force in a democracy is to protect we the people from those few who would use their strength and/or lack of morals to steal from or enslave those among us who cannot properly defend ourselves. This includes people who have more power than average people because their wealth can buy the services of gangs of thugs to do their violence for them. Unfortunately, in Canada and many other places (most in the 'modern democratic capitalist' world, anyway) the wealthy have now purchased control of the 'democratic' governments, and thus the police forces of those governments, and use those police forces for quite the reverse of what they were originally intended for - instead of prtecting we the people from the wealthy, they now quite perversely (perversely insofar as 'democracy' is concerned) protect the wealthy from we the people. Given that most people like to maintain the illusory thought that we actually live in a 'democracy', they cannot be overt about this switching of roles (any more than they can be overt about the perverted 'democracy'), but it is nonetheless evident enough to those who have managed to avoid at least some of the state indoctrination. Thugs in the service of warlords are not used to showing much restraint when controlling the peasants, thus the excesses we see more frequently in the use of their power. Talking about reforming the police is a waste of time, for as long as the government is not under our control, the police force never can be.
The ideas behind this short observation are spelled out in more detail in a recent book, 'They're Building a Box - and You're In It' - at http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html .

If BC for example, were to

If BC for example, were to get rid of the RCMP and get a provincial Force, wouldn't they be the same people?

I seem to recall when Abbotsford (which had RCMP) and Matsqui (Which had their own) merged the Matsqui Police took over and they were renamed the Abbotsford Police and I seen to remember some of the Abbotsford RCMP went to work for the Abbotsford Police.

So would just changing the name from RCMP to BC Police or whatever, there would still be the same people????

Wouldn't the same bunch of goons, thugs and murderer's still be employed?

So wouldn't tightening up the Recruitment Process be better? Do they have 'psychological' testing now? Plus they should hire people with 'people skills'.

The officers involved in the death of Mr Dziekanski

The RCMP Officers should be charged under Sec. 25 of the Criminal Code of Canada, which section I'll quote below here:

PROTECTION OF PERSONS ACTING UNDER AUTHORITY
When not protected / When protected.
25. (1) Every one who is required or authorized by law to do anything in the administration or enforcement of the law
(a) as a private person,
(b) as a peace officer or public officer,
(c) in aid of a peace officer or public officer, or
(d) by virtue of his office,
is, if he acts on reasonable grounds, justified in doing what he is required or authorized to do and in using as much force as is necessary for that purpose.
(2) Where a person is required or authorized by law to execute a process or to carry out a sentence, that person or any person who assists him is, if that person acts in good faith, justified in executing the process or in carrying out the sentence notwithstanding that the process or sentence is defective or that it was issued or imposed without jurisdiction or in excess of jurisdiction.
(3) Subject to subsection (4), a person is not justified for he purposes of subsection (1) in using force that is intended or is likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm unless he believes on reasonable grounds that it is necessary for the purpose of preserving himself or any one under his protection from death or grievous bodily harm.
(4) A peace officer who is proceeding lawfully to arrest, with or without warrant, any person for an offence for which that person may be arrested without warrant, and every one lawfully assisting the peace officer, is justified, if the person to be arrested takes flight to avoid arrest, in using as much force as is necessary to prevent the escape by flight, unless the escape can be prevented by reasonable means in a less violent manner. [R.S., c.C-34, s.25.]

On the basis of the available evidence, a special prosecutor should be appointed and charges laid at once. There is a prima facie case, which is, in my view, sufficient to merit charges.

A special prosecutor is needed because crown counsel and the RCMP work together as a matter of course; ordinary crown counsel should not be put in the position of having to charge colleagues.

G...

Did you watch the video? I really didn't see all that much in the way of excessive force, other than the fact that they tasered him. The question I found myself asking, is... is it the taser that is lethal? Or was this man ripe for a heart attack... Coroners inquest should shed some light. Personally, I never liked the use of tasers, as there are better alternatives.

I think this section catches them anyway

(3) Subject to subsection (4), a person is not justified for he purposes of subsection (1) in using force that is intended or is likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm unless he believes on reasonable grounds that it is necessary for the purpose of preserving himself or any one under his protection from death or grievous bodily harm.

And yep, I saw the video. 24 seconds is just not long enough for anyone to validly claim that there was either a valid move to arrest, or, for that matter, any danger of flight.

Besides, as (4) goes on the officers are only legally able to "... (use) as much force as is necessary to prevent the escape by flight, unless the escape can be prevented by reasonable means in a less violent manner."...

There is no question that the final outcome was NOT Necessary and, under Section 25, there is a prima facie case for charges.

The charges are overdue, in my opinion, and the whole justice system suffers while John Les twiddles his thumbs.

I haven't checked the case law but I'm sure there will be something on point...

Independent Civilian Oversight Best for All

"Justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done." – Viscount Gordon Hewart, Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales (1922-1940)

The old aphorism seems undeniable yet policing in this country is frequently strange to the wisdom. Without strong independent civilian oversight, many lawful citizens cannot trust police forces.

We’ve had front line law enforcement involved in incidents of apparent injustice and we’ve witnessed police management stonewalling, even obstructing, relevant inquiries. Whether an agency is local, provincial or federal hardly matters if its management is improperly constituted.

RCMP and other police forces object to independent civilian oversight yet their own good members would be beneficiaries of such a policy. Internal examination, or outside inquiry by selected colleagues, may find an officer’s behaviour to be faultless but lack of independence makes any verdict suspect.

Why not create a police system in which justice is seen to be done?

Grumpy et al

The RCMP "died" long before last week. It "died" when Disney bought them -- and they've been busy ever since, trying to establish a "Mickey Mouse" image.......

RCMP

I think the problems with our esteemed police force can be solved.
Given my druthers I think I would prefer them over their equivalent south of the border.

Don'T Blame the Cleaners!

Looking at the stories of the RCMP's tazering the unfortunate individual at YVR, it seems that all the media types are missing the point. Review the history of the RCMP, and you'll find they were founded for the same role we see repeated here.

While we pretend to be a functioning democracy, Canada is a fascist state, controlled by an iron beaurocracy that has been in power since Trudeau managed to blunder away control of the functions of government. Prime Ministers come and go, but the mandarins are eternal.

The RCMP was founded to clean up a mess, and still see this as their primary purpose. With their allegiance to the bearucrats in Ottawa, the needs and wants of the common citizens aren't even on the radar.

Getting back to the YVR incident, the ball was dropped at least nine hours before the RCMP got involved. Ask yourself, under our supposedly secure system, how did a foreign person get off a manifested international flight and not make it through customs for ten hours? Suppose this was a terrorist targeting another flight, picking up preplanted weapons or explosives to end up on the other flight? There's a lot of expensive real estate within ten hours of YVR.

Would it not be reasonable to designate one person on each shift in the secure area, (its not like everyone and his dog has access), to sweep the area at least once an hour and check up on individual still there. A call for a translator, or even a staff member or a customer that speaks a common language, would have cleared this up in minutes, not hours.

As is often the case, the RCMP was called for a specific purpose. "We have a psychotic individual with no english, he's unruly, and we have a couple of hundred real customers coming through those doors in a few minutes".

As usual 'drop yer coffee, feet off the desk,' we got some trash to collect!

As they say, 'the rest is history'.

Ian

Reform the politicians, not the police

As one who has seen both city police and the RCMP in action, I quite readily say "give me the RCMP, thank you very much". I formed that opinion when I first moved into a small Interior town, and it has remained so through some 55 years and several towns and villages since

As a rule, citizens in small towns have a much different relationship with the law officer than does the average urban dweller. In small towns and villages the officer becomes part of the community and is on a first-name basis with many locals. With the possible exception of some now-militant native comunities, the hostility we commonly see directed toward law oficers is NOT seen in the small town.

Over the years the main reason I have heard offered for this situation is that the RCMP chain of command is through Federal authority and not bound to local authority. Thus, they do not have to answer to local politicians.

The old BC Provincial Police (disbanded 1950) answered to local politicians, and I've been told, (though I've never done any study of this) that it was very corrupt, being the reason the RCMP was brought in.

My feeling is that the government sets the tone and parameters for police behaviour. If we see law enforcers behaving as if the rights of the citizen are secondary to the convenience of the state, then blame the poiticians, and not the police who are merely following their training and their orders.

When police act like Fascists, you can be sure that's what their bosses are.

Disbanding the RCMP

I blogged about this well before Dziekanski (http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2007/08/our-national-disgrace-disband-rcmp-now.html). Well done, sir! We need a groundswell on this.

1)Early retirement for all RCMP senior management.

2) A new, comprehensive training program to be developed.

3) First refusal in the new force to present admin personnel and front-line officers, the latter to be admitted probationally on a case-by-case basis, and proper training to be undergone as required.

4) Widespread transfers to break up the cliques. The rebuilding of a healthy corporate culture.

5) A civilian Complaints Commission to be established, with the ability through a tribunal system of disciplining errant officers. Assistance offered to both parties throughout. Discipline to be in keeping with the offence.

This thing is do-able, and the sooner the better. The RCMP, as has been said recently, is "horribly broken," and it's broken beyond repair.

Further thoughts

I probably spoke too hastily about retiring all of the senior managers. We need a comprehensive audit to determine where the rot is and how deeply it is entrenched.

I make some specific proposals here:

http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2007/11/reconstruction-new-national-police.html

Crawford's Modest Proposal!

I think Mr.Kilian has successfully channeled Jonathan Swift and ignited quite a discussion about this serious issue.

I would like to add one egregious example of the RCMP covering for/forgiving their own that I haven't noticed mentioned here - the amazing adventures of Constable Milo Ramsey in a period of slightly more than one month during the Holiday/New Year's season of 2005/2006. This case was finally resolved resulting in a slap of the wrist in the Summer of 2007.

Mr. Ramsey is a Chilliwack RCMP officer whose crime/ridiculous behavior spree seemed to center on North Van.

1.He threw a rock at a transit bus,after being tossed/dragged off for being abusive to the driver,

2. He hung out with a known criminal and prostitute (who was in fact an undercover VPD officer) in his RV.

3. He ran into seven parked cars and a carport while driving his RV,drunk, he had to be removed by a dog unit, as he refused to exit the RV in North Vancouver

There were other minor offenses like illegal use of the RCMP database for personal purposes and illegally having and storing pepper spray in his RV, the one he uses for drinking and driving in.

The last I heard, the RCMP had given Mr. Ramsey a job where he wouldn't need the license that he doesn't have. He sounds like an ideal candidate for equipping with a Taser, though. Oh yeah, he was fined!

In case you think I made up Constable Ramsey look in the Galloping Beaver or the Stunning Flagship [url=http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=6ecd8eab-4468-45b6-ac90-681d2a85bc77&k=86450
]Vancouver Sun.[/url]

Why do I think that if I was say a truck driver (logs, lumber, delivery) and spent five weeks commiting the above deeds. I might see the inside of a jail and might lose my job. According to the Sun:

One interesting anecdote is about a troublemaker at a dance a band I was in was playing in small town during a hockey tournament. One haywire fellow had to be physically removed from the stage and sound equipment by our own security/bodyguards more than once until he was finally removed by the local police after complaints from the people running the bar, the door and general public. The next year we played at the same function and that individual was conspicuous by his absence. Inquiries soon led to the knowledge that aforementioned young man was away, away at Regina undergoing training to become a member of the RCMP. My immediate question, what DO they screen for?

No Such thing in Canada as "civilian" oversight...

Going through all of the comments on this story many of you have suggested some sort of civilian body, or civilian oversight of the police. We already have that.

The problem is that almost ALL of the oversight agencies and bodies employee ex-RCMP. That translates into no meaningful oversight and it certainly is not "civilian".

If...and that is one giant "if"...any type of oversight is going to work part of the legislation must include not allowing former police officers to be hired by the oversight agencies expect possibly as some sort of advisor capacity. They most certainly should not be allowed to investigate complaints made against current officers or have any say in how those complaints are resolved or handled.

There is a complaint being investigated by the RCMP's civilian oversight agency into the YVR taser incident...which consists of ex-RCMP (just like BC's own OPCC) so you can rest assured that even if they do find fault with those 4 officers, there will be no consequences to their actions that will have any impact on their careers whatsoever...just like the crime spree officer mentioned above. Those situations are not the exception, they are the norm.

RCMP

Given the fact that the coroner's report hasn't yet been disclosed as to the cause of Mr. Dziekanski's death, no one can honestly say that the taser actually caused it. Mr. Dziekanski could have had any number of existing medical conditions, including the fact that he'd been without nicotine. He may also have been very upset that he was, in fact, being filmed by Mr. Pritchard. He certainly wasn't behaving rationally. The RCMP were using an approved tool to subdue a person who was behaving very aggressively. Tragic as this whole affair is, I do not see it as a reason to think we have to disband our national police force. I would hazard a guess that if Mr. Dziekanski was wired with explosives then we'd all be lauding the RCMP officers as heroes, for the action they took.

Some links

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/map-police/ has good stats

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/20/bc-tasers.html
more interesting stats

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/20/bc-chilliwacktaser.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/excited-delirium.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/map-tasers-canada/

The last link is most revealing in terms of taser deaths in Canada. By all means, this is worth a look. Tasers are deadly and the last link reveals it. Good ol' pepper spray... thats my preference. At least no one has died from it in Canada. Yet.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/pepper-spray.html

The link on pepper spray provides a good idea of what police actually do have at their disposal in terms of weapons and what the dis-advantages are with each use. I found it enlightening.

I notice a new crop of

I notice a new crop of headlines about the public's reaction to the taser death. Some citizen's are even expressing their anger in person to RCMP members they see on the street and in the course of their daily business. The public reaction has forced that professional dilettante, Stockwell Day, to step back from earlier comments and order a review of tazer policy.

Not to trivialize this tragic and totally unjustified death, but it's nice to finally see a critical mass of Canadians get royally pissed off about something that really matters, for a change.

the brain

"Think again. Police are taking alot of unnecessary heat in trying to carry out their jobs as of late."

When reporters asked the RCMP about the mysterious death of Ian Bush at the police station , who was arrested for drinking beer outside, the spokesperson replied that the public did not have any right to know.

Thats just typical RCMP pomposity. When the Airborne regiment went out of control culminating in the death of a prisoner in Somalia, they were disbanded.

The problem here is not budgets or training, its attitude , an attitude developped over decades of being above the law. There is only one way to change that, the airborne is a good example.

RCMP

As with ANY organization, large or small, there are bad apples. However, I see in my city many officers who spend a lot of their own time, giving and contributing to the community to make it a better place. It's important to remember that police officers aren't the ones who make the laws. They're simply the ones on the front lines who have to enforce them. It's so easy to bash and berate them - we all get mad when we get a speeding ticket. However, I still maintain that if we all looked at ourselves and took more responsibility for our own behaviors, we'd all be better off. It's much easier to blame someone else.

majc - That’s the

majc - That’s the difference between government and the private sector. The stakes are far, far higher when someone screws up in government, because citizen’s are not customers who can vote with their feet – they are dependent on government to provide the basic functions of the state. One of those most basic and elemental functions is the legitimate and correct use of the state’s monopoly on the Coercive Power. The police exercise this power in the name of the Crown within their jurisdiction (and in very rare cases, the military also). They can get it right 90% of the time, and the fact is that the good news is no news. But each time they get it wrong it has major implications in terms of system failure, legitimacy, and public confidence. As the RCMP themselves have conceded, police forces cannot function without the general support of the citizens whom they police.

Notwithstanding ideologically-motivated rhetoric about the nature of bureaucracies, the stakes and consequences of mistakes in the public sector are vastly disproportionate relative to the private sector. Public sector mistakes like this (or any other example – water & food supply, building codes, you name it) are potentially catastrophic on individuals, organizations, and the whole of government.

No arm of government can afford these kinds of spectacular screw-ups.

Blaming the Victim?

Truestory suggests blame for the YVR homicide should be shared with the victim.

Threatening to damage property but not people, the man didn't obey 30 seconds of verbal commands given in a language he couldn't understand. He writhed in pain after the first taser shock, so deserved another. He resisted when four armoured individuals collectively applied about 800 pounds of weight to his body. More importantly, the victim failed to give himself CPR.

I counted four police officers and three security personnel in the immediate area. Seven trained individuals could not physically control one person without causing his death -- then made no attempt to revive him.

Add to this, the RCMP deliberately misinformed the public about the event and had to be threatened with legal action before they returned the video to its owner.

Little wonder that only blind apologists fail to condemn this behaviour.

woody, Daveyy

Where do you both think attitudes come from? It comes from training and standards. The choice to use a taser over other weapons is a standard. The choice of weapons to use by the police force itself is a standard. There are standard protocols, with attitudes being addressed most certainly in recruiting and training and if there is a lapse of attitude in the RCMP, thats where you start, especially with the attitudes driven by standards at top levels of management. !

And attitude, quite frankly, is top down in a sense. It's also bottom up, but prevails top down. And who decides those standards? Who reviews them? Governments. The police force themselves... who else?

The use of tasers for example, has been under review for some time. It was a Conservative promise to look into the previous deaths of tasers at the time of the election and make a quick decision. The risks to tasers including mounting deaths were becoming well known. What did Monte Solberg do with his year and a half on file? Stockwell Day?

Taser are new to the force, relatively speaking, having been used for 5 years or more. Their manufacturers swear up and down that they are safe, with consumer groups saying the opposite. The stat's themselves, say the opposite. This link spells it out.

www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/map-tasers-canada

Geez, we've only had 18 deaths since the police force started using tasers... and two more could be added if the victims don't recover. And you both think its all attitudes? Try standards. What else is the public basing their own attitudes on... and quite frankly, scapegoating the entire force for the incompetance of a few police officers, management and standards that aren't being met or don't go far enough (yet), is not the way to go. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Daveyy

As a provincial police force would be provincially funded, the Provincial government would control the purse of the police. By controlling the purse, they could effect police policy

As has been stated countless times in the Tyee, the MSM does not criticize the Liberal government 1/10th as much for lesser mistakes made by the NDP. With such media bias, the public is not informed. The voters are not informed. I see it as plain as day that the problems we are having with increased criminal activity is a direct result of the most needy in our province not having their needs met for the last 6 years. People have become desperate, and they are doing desperate things to attempt to meet or bury those needs - not the least of which is engage in addictive behaviours so that they don't have to feel what they feel. Addictions lead to more problems and the vicious circle ramps up!

So, why would i want the Liberals to control the purse of the police. They have made cuts to every other service to people. Would you expect any different with the police.

For all the flaws in the

For all the flaws in the process, the call for a public inquiry is a good one, and, if the terms of reference and the transparency are sufficient (big "ifs," to be sure, but I have a feeling about this one), something good may come of it--criminal charges at the least.

A federal public inquiry would have been far better, of course, given that the RCMP is under federal jurisdiction. As things stand now, this case will be individualized, set off from the general rot, and a"horribly broken" RCMP will stumble onwards into the next scandal. And the next.

Killian is right, as I said before--the RCMP needs to be replaced, and a new force built from the ground up.

Sharingisgood

"By controlling the purse, they could effect police policy"

Your logic could apply just as well to the RCMP and the federal government. Your tone is really politically slanted, ie liberals bad, NDP good, whereas policing and civilian control thereof transcends politics and is a basis of our democracy. The RCMP have meddled in federal politics over the years, just ask François Beaudoin, former ceo of the Federal Development Bank who refused a loan to a Chrétien crony and was unjustly and viciously prosecuted by the RCMP ( the judge's words, not mine).

So, if I follow your logic, we should keep a broken RCMP for fear that its replacement might be controlled by the BC liberals. Maybe we should vote for the RCMP commissionner lust like some sherriffs are voted into office in the USA.

Call it as I see it - Daveyy

I have been critical of the NDP as well. I will admit to a bias toward having a solid mix of free market and government controlled services for Canadians. I will admit that I find this government horribly inept and believe them to be corrupt.

I prefer that the RCMP be repaired rather than torn apart and rebuilt piecemeal province by province: there are many good things and good traditions still within the organisation. I believe that the provincial governments/legislators have a better chance of not breaking Canadian law (and of being caught - and charged should they be caught) if the police are not run by the province.

Currently in our province, through lack of funding, the government hasn't followed its own mandate to review the circumstances of children who have died in their care. Further, they have placed more restrictions on gaining information on the government's dealings through Freedom of Information. And, they have lied to the citizens about the report that tells of their eneptness in dealing with not following their own mandate. If they cannot find a way to properly fund and monitor just this one area of protection, I don't want to give them the responsibility to monitor and police all of the activities of the province.

Since the main stream media has been proven to be biased, we can't count on them to help us police either.