The Plan to Disappear Canada
'Deep integration' comes out of shadows.
Seal of the SPP.
If the machinations going on in this country regarding so-called "deep integration" were instead a communist conspiracy to take over the country (you will, of course, have to try hard to imagine this) the news media would be blaring the story.
Pundits would pontificate, editorialists would erupt, security forces would be unleashed.
Instead, a virtual conspiracy to make the country disappear through assimilation into the U.S. gets barely a mention.
But news of the scheme -- formally called the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP) -- is finally breaking out of the secret chambers of the ruling elite and the federal government. This is both good news and bad. It's good that ordinary citizens are finally getting a glimpse of the betrayal of their country. The news is bad because it reflects just how much of this scheme is already being implemented.
Given the meetings of CEOs and politicians to advance the scheme politically, as well as all that must go into its actual implementation, there is simply too much activity to keep secret.
Ten dots to connect
Here are 10 developments in the plan to disappear Canada.
1) Pesticides 'harmonized.' The most thoroughly reported story (though even this did not go much beyond the CanWest chain) was the revelation that Canada was about to "harmonize" its regulations, setting limits for pesticide residue on fruits and vegetables. In 40 per cent of the cases, the U.S. allows for higher levels. Richard Aucoin, chief registrar of the Pest Management Regulatory Agency, which sets Canada's pesticide levels, said that Canada's higher levels were a "trade irritant."
The downgrading of health protection had been a NAFTA initiative, but is being "fast-tracked" as part of the Security and Prosperity Partnership. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Some 300 regulatory regimes are currently going through the same process.
2) Tory tirade. The next story that broke through the wall of media silence reported on the paranoid reaction of the Harper Conservatives to any criticism of the SPP. The occasion was hearings of the Commons International Trade Committee into the SPP, forced by the NDP.
Gordon Laxer, head of Alberta's Parkland Institute, was testifying on the energy implications of the SPP, warning that eastern Canada could end up "freezing in the dark." He had barely started when the chair of the committee, Conservative MP Leon Benoit, demanded that Laxer halt his "irrelevant" testimony. The Committee members overruled Benoit -- who promptly (and illegally) adjourned the meeting and stomped out. The NDP and Liberal members nonetheless continued without him.
3) Council of corporate power. The SPP initiative began in earnest back in 2002 with the Canadian Council of Chief Executives (formerly the BCNI), the most powerful corporate body in the country. It continues it leadership role, but does not promote the scheme just in its own name. It instead has helped create several supportive bodies that now help drive the agenda. Included in these are the North American Competitive Council (NACC), which includes CEOs of the largest North American corporations, and which institutionalizes the exclusively corporate nature of the agreement. The NACC is the only advisory group to the three NAFTA/SPP governments.
4) Secretive summit. The NACC at least is public. But much of what happens in building the elite consensus for deep integration is done in absolute secrecy or very privately, away from the prying eyes of the media. The most secretive of these was held last year from Sept. 12 to 14, in Banff Springs. As The Tyee reported, the gathering was sponsored by something called the North American Forum* and it was attended by some of the most powerful members of the North American ruling elite.
Attendees, according to a leaked list that could not be confirmed, included Donald Rumsfeld, George Schultz (former U.S. Secretary of State), General Rick Hillier, Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor and Minister of Public Safety Stockwell Day. The media was not informed of the meeting and it was first revealed by the weekly Banff Crag & Canyon.
Stockwell Day refused to even confirm he was there, but said that even if he was, it was a "private" meeting that he would not comment on. There is no better indication that these meetings, and the SPP itself, constitute a parallel governing structure -- unaccountable to any democratic institution or the public.
5) 'No fly' coordination. Canada will have its own "no-fly" list just like our U.S. "partner."
As the Council of Canadians pointed out: "The no-fly list is very much a Security and Prosperity Partnership initiative. 'The SPP Report to Leaders, August 2006' outlines 105 SPP initiatives. Initiative #93 states, 'Develop, test, evaluate and implement a plan to establish comparable aviation passenger screening, and the screening of baggage and air cargo (for North America).'"
Canada's privacy commissioner Jennifer Stoddart has raised a number of concerns about the plan including the fact that the list will be shared with the U.S., that "false positives" are a virtual certainty, and that there is no evidence put forward by the government that the list will improve airline security.
6) Bye, bye Canadian dollar? David Dodge, the head of the Bank of Canada, told a Chicago audience that a single currency for North America "is possible." That would see a big chunk of Canadian sovereignty and the ability to guide the economy through monetary policy go out the window. It's not the first time Dodge has mused about abandoning the Canadian dollar - or deep integration.
7) Water and oil giveaways. The deep integrationists clearly see Canadian water as a North American resource, not a Canadian resource. At yet another very private meeting, held in Calgary on April 27th under the auspices of yet another forum, it was made clear that water is on the table for negotiation.
Discussion of bulk "water transfers" and diversions took place at a Calgary meeting of the North American Future 2025 Project (partly funded by the U.S. government). The meeting based its deliberations on the false notion that Canada has 20 per cent of the world's fresh water. Actual available supply amounts to only around six per cent -- about the same as has the U.S.
The water (and environment) meeting was preceded by another on April 26th talking about "North American" energy. The beneficiary of these discussions is pretty clear when you realize Canada has no national energy policy. We are the only energy exporting country in the world without a one.
Gordon Laxer told the Parliamentary committee: "The National Energy Board wrote me on April 12: 'Unfortunately, the NEB has not undertaken any studies on security of supply.'" He was also told by the NEB that Canada does not maintain a 90 day energy reserve as other developed nations do. As Laxer points out, "Canada may be a net exporter, but it still imports 40 per cent of its oil -- 850,000 barrels per day -- to meet 90 per cent of Atlantic Canada's and Quebec's needs, and 40 per cent of Ontario's."
Canada exports 63 per cent of its oil production and 56 per cent of its natural gas, percentages that can never decrease under NAFTA.
8) NAFTA Superhighway. State governments in the U.S. are becoming increasingly alarmed at the prospects of deep integration. Earlier this year, Idaho became the first state to pass a legislative resolution directing the U.S. Congress to drop out of the SPP, which is referred to as the North American Union amongst U.S. opponents. Thirteen states in addition to Idaho are calling on Congress to abandon the SPP: Georgia, Arizona, Missouri, Illinois, Oregon, Montana, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Utah, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington and Virginia.
Part of the opposition is focused on plans for a so-called NAFTA Superhighway: actually a corridor several hundred metres wide including rail lines, freeways and pipelines from Mexico to the Canadian border. There is a growing grass roots movement against the SPP in the U.S., but led by the right over the issue of compromising American sovereignty.
9) Trade, Investment and Labour Mobility Agreement (TILMA). While U.S. states, concerned about state rights under an unaccountable "North American Union," are organizing against the scheme, Canadian provinces are either blithely unaware or knowingly complicit in the deal. More Canadians may be aware of TILMA -- the investors' rights agreement between B.C. and Albert -- than they are about the SPP, but in reality they are one and the same.
TILMA is major piece of the deep integration, deregulation imperative and fits hand in glove with the SPP. There is a similar, though more informal, process evolving in the Atlantic provinces, called "Atlantica." And B.C. is now pushing the so-called Gateway Initiative, a kind of regional superhighway project that will see huge and environmentally disastrous expansion of ports, highways and pipelines to further supply the U.S.'s insatiable demand for resources and cheap Asian goods.
10) The next SPP summit. The third leaders summit on the SPP will take place this August 21-22nd in Montebello, Quebec, not far from Ottawa. By the time it does many more Canadian will be aware of it.
Part of the reason that news of the SPP/deep integration issue is finally seeing the light of day is that opposition is growing and groups fighting the SPP are having an impact. The Council of Canadians, the CLC and the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives held an SPP teach-in in Ottawa last month and many civil society groups are now taking deep integration to their members. Demonstrations are planned for the summit. The NDP continues to press the government on SPP secrecy and the Green Party's Elizabeth May has said deep integration will be a focus of the party's election platform.
It is hard to think of any other issue in modern Canadian history, especially one that will literally determine whether the country survives or not, that has taken so long to get public attention. I first wrote about it September, 2002.
By the time the SPP summit has come and gone and the fall political season begins, deep integration, the most treacherous plan for the country yet devised by Bay Street, will be increasingly exposed.
And by the next election, we could see a repeat of the great "free trade" election of 1988. This time we have to win.
*Correction note: At 12:20 p.m. on June 4, we corrected the name of the forum.
Related Tyee stories:
- 'For Our Own Good, Give Canada Away'
The 'deep integrationists' plan one happy continent, but we must teach the little ones. - Secret Summit on Shared 'Security'
Why was North America's power elite invited to Banff? - Trade Debate BC Libs Don't Want
Talk of TILMA deal censored in the legislature. But not in The Tyee.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
Bailey
07-06-2007
The return of the Ancien Regime?
The nature of the secret handbook revealed by Mr Laxer's Globe and Mail article in the Nafta link in paragraph 7, when combined with other elements of this story suggests an alarming possibility.
What if the elite are attempting to reestablish an aristocracy based on wealth?
By their structural nature, corporations have the ability to shift their names and appearances, to assign parts of a mission to apparently unconnected entities while in fact maintaining rigid centralized control over the whole thing by, well, whoever owns them. They can assign finances as they wish, to candidates and parties at every level by way of contributions and lobbyist influence, and even bribes and blackmail.
All the while keeping the true purpose and indeed the true controller, quite hidden. Lurking behind crowds of fictional 'persons' who are exempt from the duties, the morals, even the laws of human societies.
How is this different from a revolutionary espionage cell of the communist revolutions of the last century, or the terrorist fundamentalist cells of Al Qaida?
It seems clear that some force, a very wealthy one, is exerting an incomprehensible influence on the governments of the world for purposes that seem unclear, even inhuman. To concentrate ownership of the means of production, the resources, even the populations of workers needed to exploit them in fewer and fewer hands.
Not calling themselves kings and nobles, of course, but not far from it, either.
What do you think, Mr. Dobbin? Is this in any way a possible explanation for these things you've reported here?
Jeffrey J.
07-06-2007
Chilling News
For those of us who have followed this trend, Dobbin's summary is nothing less than the plain, simple truth. Our very sovereiignty is at stake, and Canada's "elites" stand around with their hands in their pants, doing nothing. No other country in the world, whether right wing or left wing, would permit the US to undermine its very existence. Except Canada. This is a huge story and must be communicated to all Canadians before it is too late. Great article!
flattax
07-06-2007
Top 10 reasons Canada should merge with the USA
Canada is better off merging with the US for so many reasons (Let the death threats start):
10. WE are so similar Culturally to the US. Many Canadians hate to admit this.
9. A common currency benefits Europe, why not us?
8. We are free riders on US defence and the strong US economy.
7. The canandian parlementary system is a failure.
6. We are better off not pandering to quebec any more.
5. Our population is along the US border.
4. There are less trade barriers between the US and Canada than there are between the provinces.
3. synergies and economies of scale, think of the wastage due to two governing systems.
2. When the cdn dollar goes to par, lets go for a common currency!
1. No more CRTC and CBC.
In general, let the provinces become states and lets wave the stars and stripes! (Maybe we can put a little maple leaf in the corner.)
Grumpy
07-06-2007
George Orwell, where are you?
The Orwellian name, security and Prosperity. sends shivers down my spine. It is time to cut the cords with the USA and say adiós! But the Quisling's that infest or politics and bureaucracies will see Canada swallowed up by the evil empire to the South. Time for a revolution, say what!
tessa
07-06-2007
Top 10 reasons why Annexation stinks
Don't worry flattax, i have no desire to wish for your death, just poke holes in your arguement.
10. It's not that we hate to admit it, it's just hard to admit something that isn't true. Culture is more than top10 movies, it runs in deeper attitudes, and in Canada those cultural values are in stark contrast to the U.S>
9. The Euro cannot be manipulated by a single state for their own interests.
8. A) So any country that exports the bulk of its exports to a single other country should merge? Regardless of all the other things nationalism about? B) Considering our location, the only country that is ever likely to launch a land invasion is the United States. It's also one of few countries we are currently in territorial disputes with.
7. And the American system, where gerrymandering is legal and signing statements can completely change laws, is a devolution. Let's fix the problems in our democracy, not make it worse.
6. So instead we should pander to the U.S.? Declaring Quebec a nation within Canada is hardly on par with giving up real economic power and sovereignty.
5. So?
4. I know, i'm unsettled by that.
3. According to this logic we should become one world government. Not a fan. Having a national government is worse the duplication because we do things differently and separately, and that option isn't available in this new single system.
2. This isn't even a reason. Let's not. Let's just laugh at the American dollar.
1. The CBC is a wonderful reason to stay in Canada.
In general, no. Let's stand up for the good we've got and solve the problems our way, together.
NSG
08-06-2007
SPP
Let us not forget.
Mulroney= Free Trade Aggrement.
Chrétien=Nafta.
Martin= SPP.
Harper= Having nightmares of what is to come.
It's all a dog and pony show they are all bought they all work for the same people.
And I would come up with top 10 resons why flattax is foolish but I know flattax
types will probably be hit the hardest by the NAU.
realisticman
08-06-2007
A Right of Citizenship
Labour mobility pushed
Thu, June 7, 2007
Ottawa is to tell the provinces to move on dropping barriers.
By CP
OTTAWA -- The federal government is poised to tell the provinces they must drop barriers to labour mobility and allow Canadians to work anywhere in the country with their qualifications recognized, CP has learned.
The federal proposal will be presented by Industry Minister Maxime Bernier at a meeting of ministers in St. John's, Nfld., today.
Bernier, who is impatient with the slow progress in breaking down interprovincial barriers, will tell his provincial counterparts that the ability to work anywhere in Canada without restrictions should be a right of citizenship. ...
Grumpy
08-06-2007
But I don't want to be a Yankee!
So many people, like our Premier, just want to be an American, why don't they just move there and leave the real Canadians alone!
Jonathan
08-06-2007
Unity is desirable
My name is Jonathan Wheelwright, and I am the founder of United North America (www.UnitedNorthAmerica.org), a non-profit organization that wishes to see the amalgamation of Canada and the United States into one political entity.
I read your article with great interest. While I share many of the fears you have brought to light, I think the overall message that you are sending is needlessly negative.
If I may suggest, you should look to the prospects of a North American Union much like one would have looked at the prospects of creating a United States of America in the 1770s, the formation of Canada in the 1860s or the addition of Texas or Newfoundland to those respective nations. The union of the American states could have become a terrible nighmare for its citizenry if it was crafted and molded by a elite group that wished to maintain power over the people.
However, the United States of America was founded on the belief that freedom and democracy were more important than loyalty to a far-away elite (King), and so we we're blessed with a wonderful nation that has brought light to this dark world. The USA and Canada were founded on the belief that united we are stronger than divided. And it is that unity that has given both of our nations great power and wealth in this world. Amplifying the United States with the power and talented people of Canada will only strengthen us against growing powers to the east and west of us.
A North American Union brought about by undemocratic means is not what any freedom-loving person would like to see, but the idea of strength in numbers is not necessarily a bad one, if harnessed properly. So I petition you to, instead of trying to stop the inevitable outcome in this globalizing world, harness the positive aspects of the proposition and help force a democratic union that will be of positive benefit to our common society as a whole.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Wheelwright
"One people, one culture, one nation"
alive
08-06-2007
my take
I would love if all borders were dropped!
We in BC have more in common with the rest of the west coast, than with the rednecks on the prairies anyway.
However I am not in favour of the idea that we should drop our standards in the bargain!
Our standards are barely good enough to begin to compare to those of Europe, as it is!
The idea that we should be aligned with the policies coming from the white house is frigthening, and the chance that we would have any influence there is minimal.
I realize that our lives are managed by the same groups already, but for now we do have the resemblance of independence.
All we have to do is to quit electing parties that are aligned with the religious fanatics south of our border!
Tall order, as we daily are influenced by the media.
Perhaps we are doomed?
G West
08-06-2007
Jonathan Wheelwright
The United States has brought "light" to this dark world; please, tell me more.
Particularly address the 'light' the USA brought to Vietnam; Central and South American and the Caribbean and don't forget the Middle East.
Please, include Canada out.
If you’d been so anxious to help the world-wide project of light-bringing, why is it that America didn’t enter either of the last centuries two WORLD WARS when Canada did?
I await further ‘enlightenment’.
BC Dude
08-06-2007
Jonathan Wheelwright
Jonathan Wheelwright everything you write is full of holes!
If it's such a great deal for Canada, why all the stealth silence?
Our Universal Health Care was (B Mulroney NAFTA and P Martin as Min of Finance cut out 45-60 billion dollars from Health Canada) one of the best in the world as no one was left without coverage! In LA for one ex: the big private for profit hospital czars, for people who can't pay are taken and dropped of on skid row. Shame
Education in the USA is deplorable just look at your leader!
Canada has its share of corrupt/treasonous politicians but we didn't go to war on a pack of lies. I think Canada would become a recruiting country/ground for the perpetual war-machine?
We maybe slow to start, but now the preverbal cat is out of the bag?
flattax
08-06-2007
North America United
Johnathan Wheelright has a clear and articulate vision. One that I agree with completely.
I can see beyond all the hokey nationalist feelings of Candians. There is more in common between cultures in a north south direction than an east west. Nova Scota has more in common with Maine than Alberta, BC has more in common with Washington than Ontario. The list goes on. And Quebec..Well..they seem alot like people from the live free or die state, except they speak french.
Canada and the us are completely codependent. Neither can exist without the other. More than 80% of our trade is with the US. We need their value added products and they need our natural resources.
Canada is unable to protect the northwest passage, not from the US but from others as well. Many nations do not recognize our soverignty over the northern islands. Hans island is a good example. We cannot keep them, we do not have to power, clout or political will. The us has the political and military power to keep them. We need the us to defend the nw passage and our northern islands.
Stars and stripes with a little maple leaf in the corner.
Bytesmiths
08-06-2007
Thank you, Murray Dobbin!
Thank you for being a persistent voice on this important issue, Murray! The word is getting out, and Canadians (bald eagles wrapped in maple leafs like flattax not withstanding) are not happy about it.
Keep up the good work, Murray; you're inspiring many of us to write letters and organize.
BC Dude
08-06-2007
Flatax "Johnathan Wheelright
Flatax
"Johnathan Wheelright has a clear and articulate vision. One that I agree with completely."
Then for sure it's NAU or NWO are disastrous corporate unions!
bob the cat
08-06-2007
Quote:and so we we're
Oh say can you see...napalm and white phosporus really light things up alright.
yes..sort of like Germany and Austria in the late thirties
Strength through Unity!
Unity through Strength!
murdock
08-06-2007
NAM Unity = Inevitable? Perhaps; not all...
The 'globalization' effects have been written about before Dobbin did.
Sovereign Individual
and
The World is Flat
Both of these books (essentially very large essays) speak about a future world where personal ability and response-ability are of greater value than the collective dumb-ing down that has gone on since the French Revolution.
Reasons for some sort of North American Unity:
* The connection of the continent.
We are physically connected, no way to change that and with the rapid decrease of large-scale violence, the means for small-scale violence will increase. This will have the effect of placing "peace" at a premium in areas that are densely populated.
** Language and 'culture'.
I hate to say this, but the examples of flattax and Wheelright display that within the peoples populating the near-US-border region there are a certain number of 'sudaten' Americans whom desire a single entity to rule over them ~ they prefer Washington, DC over Ottawa, ON.
Part of the 'culture' connection lies with the broadcasting that is really at the heart of the argumets regarding the CBC.
*** Efficiency, where it can be enforced in a large-scale.
While over time this will matter less, for now it is still possible to obtain some efficiencies in a large-scale continent-wide (or tall if you are holding the map that way!) nation.
next some arguments why not all...
bob the cat
08-06-2007
Back in the fold
So why if there is to be unity must Canada become a Republic?
How about they join "us" rather than vice versa?
If I have to be republican I`d rather be a Mexican republican...so..
Weren`t they once a part of our grand monarchy?
So c`mon back y`all...back to Momma.
bob the cat
08-06-2007
Lil white star
hey..we`ll put their little white star right smack in the middle of our big ole red maple leaf!
Lets play Hockey!
apathysux
08-06-2007
If some Americans...
...move HERE to Canada because they do not want to be associated with the current political system in the US, why would true Canadians (IMO, anyone who would prefer to be part of a NAU is NOT a true Canadian)want to be a part of it??
If you are enamoured with the US then move there. I would rather be identified with people who appreciate the differences rather than expound the similarities.
vive la Canada!!!
apathysux
08-06-2007
OH Ya...
... go CANA-DUCKS!!
Note: in a great many ways the US depends on CANADA, not the other way around. Canada has huge counterpower and should use it!
murdock
08-06-2007
not all will join-in NAM union...
So much for some obvious reasons for, now for some observations of why not all of North Amercia will be 1.
* The 'great divides' still apply.
Yes you can fly over them, but with the increasing costs this option will be seen as less and less appealing or available (even with massive bloated 'nations' commandeering resources at an ever increasing rate). This means that the Rocky Mountains will return to being a divider of the continent, places on the west side of the divide will have more reasons to do trade with each other and less to trade eastwards.
Moreover, real divides like bodies of water will make places like Newfoundland and Haida Gwaii more like sovereign Nations than ever before.
Were Newfoundland to just get on with the oil and gas development and thumb its collective nose at Ottawa, what could Ottawa realistically do?
** Counter-Culture.
The 'Indian' Nations or First Nations continue to see an erosion of their positions (especially in eastern Canada) while in the US badlands their native brothers are becoming prosperous...this will have some far-reaching consequences that will make Oka look like a shriners picnic.
Also in the US south-west, there are loads of Latino-speakers and non-melting pot cultures. With a separation like the Rocky Mountains keeping the unwanted easily away, could they also refuse to partake in a SPP?
*** Efficiency, where it counts.
As each talented individual will become increasingly able to 'financially' separate themselves from the welfare-states, and keep their hard-worked-for value for themselves the income-redistribution schemes of the last century will be resisted. Witness our own arguments over taxations (something created by William Pitt the elder to pay for the Napoleonic Wars), and resistance to any more exactions.
The corporations have found ways to reduce that tax load, as more and more persons of the means do the same then more of us will resist having our efforts being 're-distributed' without our acceptance. Things like private tax treaties will appear (especially if they can lure very wealthy or creative persons = see what such an action has done for Ireland).
freebear
08-06-2007
Schemers and profiteers
Anything to ensure the continuation of profit making at the expense of a coun tr, its citizens, and future Canadians.
Of course if we do not go along with the idea, evenytually the tanks will roll across the border!
murdock
08-06-2007
by any other name.
All taken into account, I see a 'Unified' continent from the Carolinas to the Ungava Peninsula; from the Atlantic to the foothills of the Rockies. With a special trade-region in an 'L' shape from Montreal to Quebec to Trois-Riviers. On the east side of the Rockies will be native nations that will do trade or other connections to the organizations on either side of them.
In the rockies are 'city-states' that can control areas around them either with force or trade, the wider areas will be wild-west zones of taking care of yourself first as the law of the jungle will prevail.
To the west of the rockies will be a pacific-trade zone (possibly one nation, but more likely an amalgam of Latino in the south, anglo-american in the middle and north, and native mixes in the far north).
Places like Newfoundland and Haida Gwaii will be separate from the continent and have the advantage of setting their own laws for themselves as the old 'Nation States' will be unable (or unwilling) to do anything about their proclamations.
There is no incentive to form a WORLD GOVERNMENT. Indeed the incentives formed by our increasingly digital world work the other way.
Whether it is the SPP or some other name the 'integration' is inevitable. The actual territory it commands depends on those willing to continue to accept the rule over us from Ottawa or Washington, I argue that such moves only hasten the break-up along 'natural frontiers'.
BC Dude
08-06-2007
Real Canadiansnever give-up
Real Canadiansnever give-up especially now, as we are very well known for this trait around the world, we fought in two terrible, horrible world wars!
We may be small, but don't push to hard!
These same corporate warmongers IBM helped Nazi’s keep track of Jews by numbers code!
Coca-Cola sold to Germany during WW2 as Fanta, Coke is now in Darfer polluting their water!
Check out www.killercoke.org
No media coverage, Why?
Google search history of all corporations as all this is there!
Is this what Canadians want?
bob the cat
08-06-2007
flattax
That death threat thing..thats more of a "down south" kind of thing isn`t it flatty?
When was the last time there was a political assassination in Canada? D`Arcy McGee, Louis Riel, Pierre LaPorte? We just mostly don`t do that here.
If you came out and said about and in the U.S. what you`ve said about Canada your concern about death threats would be a valid one.
What is First Nations view on integration?
Where would that put Land Claims issues concerning First Nations? How would the Republic deal with Land Claims?
During the Quebec Referendum didn`t the Northern Cree say " If you separate you can have Montreal..but the rest is ours."
JIm
08-06-2007
What defines being a
What defines being a Canadian? Being anti-American?
What defines a "real Canadian"? Hating America?
It just shows you how much America means to this country when you can't even define yourself and what your about without dropping the anti-American card.
It's good to see the left is following in Bush's footsteps by fear mongering to get their way. Pretty much a typical Dobbin article. I guess your not anti-American when it comes to political strategy.
The moral of the story. If you don't vote NDP in the next election Canada will merge with USA. And if you don't have an extreme hatred for Americans your not a “real” Canadian.
"Part of the reason that news of the SPP/deep integration issue is finally seeing the light of day is that opposition is growing and groups fighting the SPP are having an impact"
And the groups he says have taken notice to this such as CCPA and Council Canadians etc. he is either part of or was once part of (employee, executive board member etc.). Basically this is Dobbin personally spreading as much hatred against America as he can. Using your own organizations as proof of the grave threat is pretty weak. All thats proves is that there's a lot of group think going on but not much more.
G West
08-06-2007
It's not necessary
It's not necessary to hate Americans. It's not necessary to hate America. But don’t ever expect America to do anything that is NOT IN AMERICA’S BEST INTEREST.
'Patriotism', after all 'is the last refuge of a scoundrel.'
I believe Samuel Johnson first uttered that remark in 1775 - it was true before he first said it; it was true then, and it's still true now.
The biggest 'patriots' in the world are Americans who profess to love their country with such great devotion that they are blind to the essential lie at the bottom of their country's foundation.
Canadians, especially those who see differences between our two countries, are generally less inclined to believe in the benign benevolence of their national image and their national myth.
Fortunately there are very few Canadians who want, or see any value, in being citizens of any other country than Canada.
Leave the Americans to their fate and welcome any of them who wish to join us on the northern half of the continent - as long as they leave their flag-waving patriotism behind and come to this country with a healthy skepticism about the future and commitment to cooperation and inclusiveness, diversity and the fact that this land has TWO official languages.
apathysux
08-06-2007
What defines being Canadian...
...does not include hating Americans but it DOES include;
appreciation of our differences...
...such as restrictions on handguns, how often are people shot and killed in Canada by a handgun (not held by the RCMP), how often does that happen in the US?
...health care for everyone
...we are nationalistic not patriotic, I do believe there is a difference
patriotic='our country wrong or right'
nationalistic=we love our country but don't necessarily feel we have to go to war to prove it... when we go to war it is to support our friends...the US is in it for the money.
...CBC-news, shows it the way it is the best they can
...CNN, sensationalizes EVERYTHING. What is it with the color coded terror alert chart anyway? And where was it on Sept. 10, 2001?
Defining a true Canadian does not mean we have to hate Americans but it does mean liking the ways we are different.
I have lived there in two different states and I absolutely, positively, without a doubt LOVE what makes us different.
westbywest
08-06-2007
US opposition to NAFTA Superhighway, aka I-69
Quote:
"There is a growing grass roots movement against the SPP in the U.S., but led by the right over the issue of compromising American sovereignty."
This statement is not entirely accurate. There are various environmental and/or anti-globalization activists campaigning against the construction of I-69, which is the northern edge of what would become the NAFTA superhighway.
From Wikipedia article on I-69...
These links lead to more, so it would seem the US grassroots opposition to the superhighway is growing.
reality_check
08-06-2007
Labour mobility agreement is good for immigrants
Although I fear the USA of G. Bush and his corporate backers (probably benefitting from sales of arms or drugs --including alcohol-- to account for their wealth at some point of time in their development), I think labour mobility is essential for immigration purpose. Now, it is possible that Harper and his croonies have found a way to use this maliciously (I don't know), but to a doctor/teacher/nurse/engineer immigrant, labour mobility is great as local associations with their refusal to recognize perfectly fine credentials and create exams that their own members could not pass to protect their own members (who are naturally all willing to protect their base) and exacerbate the supply/demand equation, thereby increasing artificially their wages/services/needs make a mockery of the federal immigration point system and make the life of well-intentioned immigrants and their family hell. Doctors are a prime example. Specialist immigrant doctors must pass --for instance-- generalist exams (redo their medical exam). This is totally unfair as Canadian specialist doctors would not be able to pass them (unless their were to study for months). It is like to ask an electrical engineer to take a biochemistry exam that he took a long time ago. Useless information acquired once has been forgotten. Mobility is essential for immigration purposes as long as it means a serious shake-up of hwo professional associations govern their own profession.
reality_check
08-06-2007
Canada is better, but not perfect ...
From an outsider's point of view, Canada is a more humane society than the USA, but that does not mean that 50% of the US population are not great people and that the rest does not need a CBC and a great public system to develop critical thinking. If they did, G. Bush and Co. would have never been elected.
We need to reform the electoral system: at least bring proportional representation. Most Western countries have it.
doggone
08-06-2007
The Road to Hell
Forget the "good intentions".
This road is paved by earnest citizens who see no further than short term profit. Some of these citizens are poor but most are reasonably well endowed (speaking strictly financially) and the ones who actually make these decisions are even better endowed (again SSF).
Nothing will stop the current trend because greed and ignorance with a touch of power and one or two well endowed think tanks can (and do) rule.
However: No system can defecate in it's own nest for ever. Niche species (like the neocon so unassailable just now) is still some form of a natural species.
Natural life forms "Boom" and then they "Crash".
We should all vote Conservative so the crazy buggers have enough rope
Frank
08-06-2007
LOL
flattax and JIm, you guys have absolutely no reasons for Canada to join the US. The best you could do was to say that anyone who didn't want to join is anti-American. Geez, is that ever pathetic. (Actually its kind of like fascist Austrians calling their countrymen anti-Germans back in the late 30's)
If that's the only reason you could think of while typing your comments your argument isn't going to go anywhere. Cdn nationalism has been on the increase for 50 years and calling everyone who loves Canada an "anti-American" is a pretty lame response.
On the upside though your comments here should be added under every other comment you write on this forum just to illustrate how out of touch you are with your fellow citizens.
Frank
08-06-2007
Murray Dobbin
Good report Murray but I disagree on the next election thing. This problem isn't new, and it won't go away because the Cons lose an election. In fact, the Libs and the Cons do everything together, no matter which you vote for you get the same policies. The people of this country are against US encroachments on our soveriegnity, so the answer to stopping this is just keeping the citizens engaged, letting them know what's going on behind their backs, election after election after election.
Frank
08-06-2007
Jonathan Wheelwright
The thing is Jonathan, until America is improved I doubt you'll get anyone in the developed world wanting to join you. What would be the point? The average citizen of the other G8 countries is very happy not being American. I don't know how you'll convince them to want to lower their standard of living, increase their military at the expense of other gov't programs and adopt a social system where the rich and poor are more divided than anywhere outside of Brunei but good luck with that.
I know I don't wake up in the morning wishing I had no healthcare, worse schools for my kids, surrounded by illiterates who believe in fairies and sending all my tax dollars to people whose big life decision was whether to build bombs or a longer-lasting erection.
Strange that you're not getting a lot of takers huh?
Frank
08-06-2007
murdock
That comment is both elitist and wrong. Do you actually believe that prior to 1789 the average guy was more educated than today? Hopefully in the Rees-Mogg utopia ahead people will still have schools available that teach them that prior to democracy and universal education there was a hell of a lot of ignorance in the world.
That's a reason in 2007? Somehow I think its about as much of a reason now as it was on June 22nd 1941. In other words, don't expect the guys being told they have the opportunity to become part of a nation with bigger guns to like it.
Every country has them. I'm sure there are Spaniards that wish they lived under French rule, Hondurans that prefer Nicaragua etc. We call such people soon-to-be-emigrants. If they stay we call them loonys.
Part of me says "don't ask", but I will anyway, what?
Bailey
09-06-2007
The betrayal of America
We still live in the age of revolutions. All modern states owe the concepts and principles of inclusion and rule of law to their revolutions.
The American and French ones were central. The occurred together, and each recieved substantial help from the other. Both were inspired by the English, by way of Magna Carta and Cromwell, and the reformation.
I dislike this characterazation of all this political misbehaviour as nationalistic or even as left vs. right, conservative, liberal or anything else. Clearly the same forces are at work in many nations, and in institutions of all stripes.
Whatever it's nature, whatever it's parents, this fraudulent economic argument betrays everyone equally. America was indeed the source of great light once, and a hope of humanity. Likewise France. Likewise Russia, China, Cuba and Spain.
All are equally betrayed by this stuff.
murdock
09-06-2007
Frank & CBC
Part of me says "don't ask", but I will anyway, what?
There is a line of argument that says we must retain the CBC as is (whatever that is since it seems to change month-to-month) in order to counter the media giant that is broadcasting from the USA. The argument furthers that the broadcasts are generating a shift in 'Canadian' values and mores and resulting in their being more like 'Americans' than 'Canadians'.
Just a piece of the argument for certain, I disagree with it and I dislike that someone else's vision of culture is getting MY TAX DOLLARS to PAY THEIR WAY.
I think that the CBC should be more like PBS, and have private citizens contribute (meaning TV telethons etc I'm sure). Hell even the BBC is not as supported as the CBC is.
One of the largest viewing events for the CBC is Hockey Night. Yet recently we saw how much clout $12 million Canadian TAX dollars could buy with the NHL = exactly zero. Time to turn off the lights for the CBC, and my argument has nothing to do with the 'preservation of Canadian content' argument.
IT is all about the stupid waste of $$$ ($12 million to the US controlled NHL is just a drop in the bucket!).
Ignition
09-06-2007
Becoming American
Thank you, Flattax, for suggesting Canada or its parts join the US. It's time for us, as a country to have this debate out in the open.
We've snuck around this elephant in the room while politicians of every stripe edge us ever closer to integration.
The problem with the current approach is domination without representation. If Canadians are going to be controlled by the United States, let's make that decision openly, become a state or states and get it over with.
Consider the influence we would yield if we entered as a single state:
With 55 electoral college votes, George Bush never would have been elected.
With about 53 House Representatives, Canada would hold the balance of power in the lower chamber, and most likely would have denied Republicans of recent majorities.
The US Senate has been narrowly divided for much of the last decade; our Senators would in many cases cast deciding votes. And if we joined as 10 separate states, we'd have 20 Senators, pretty much letting us run the show in the upper chamber.
Frankly, American politicians, for the first time ever would pay attention to Canadian concerns.
What would we lose? The Constitution. Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. A less politicized Supreme Court. Our voice on the world stage. That's pretty much all we have left.
Jonathan
09-06-2007
To all the responses
I can see my suggestion has brought about a lot of responses. Instead of attempting to address each one on this page, I would invite people who wish to have an open and honest dialogue to sumbit their feedback @ www.unitednorthamerica.org/submitfeedback.htm.
Thanks,
Jonathan
P.S. To anyone that cares, I too am a Canadian citizen, born and raised in Manitoba.
G West
09-06-2007
Canada and its values
Ignition:
Canada, what it stands for and what values it projects amount to a very great deal more than the items mentioned in your last paragraph .
I want nothing to do with a society that thinks universal health care is socialistic.
I want less to do with a country that has played with the concept of declaring that English is the only 'official' language in the United States.
I never want to be part of an agglomeration that believes any nation (let alone themselves) can always represent what's best or brightest in the world. Or, as Tom Friedman put it: 'Nothing good ever happens in the world unless the United States is involved.'
I don't want my country to be satisfied with the fact that the standard of living of many Americans depends upon a state sponsored system of indentured undocumented labour or that paid lobbyists are more important creators of legislation than its citizens are.
I don't want to be part of a political procedure (the electoral college) that's significantly less democratic and representative than our own flawed parliamentary system; a place where everybody from judges to dog-catchers are appointed more because of their political loyalties than their talents, experience and education.
I don't want to be part of a culture that believes in violence as the way to make one's arguments with others; a place that gives less per capita in real un-tied foreign aid than almost any industrialized country; a nation whose total national debt (and this is far from counting all of it) it very nearly $9 Trillion. A place that puts more stock in giving teenagers expensive athletic shoes so they can play professional sports while ignoring their intellectual and moral development and calls this a positive value and claims it is a question of role modeling. A society where the difference between the rich and poor is growing by leaps and bounds; where a significant number of states have NO minimum wage and most of the rest are significantly lower than here in B.C.
No thank you.
Never.
Not even if you adopted all our governmental procedures, tore up the second amendment and agreed to finally pay the reparations promised to African Americans after the Civil War would I ever want my country to be part of the USA.
Personally Jonathan, I'm not even interested in talking about it - let alone debating with you or others about it. There is nothing to discuss, Jonathan. I don’t even think we should be selling you our resources under the current terms. What we have here now is much much better - though a long way from perfect - than what the US has now.
Closer integration will only harm the future of this country.
My view.
flattax
09-06-2007
The USA would never want us...
Why on earth would they want 40 million more democratic voters!
If Canadians joint the US and we get full voting status, there will never be another republican government.
They would not want us for that reason alone.
Bobby Peru
10-06-2007
Much Ado About Nothing
It's rather conceited of some of you to think that the US wants to covertly subvert or integrate Canada. It's simply too much trouble as flattax has pointed out when all the US wants to do is buy Canadian resources. Think of all the jobs that depend on NAFTA. And those of you who are against it should ask yourselves if you have a good reason for costing Canadians their job.
Unfortunately, any stats will show that Americans donate more money than Canadians. This whole kinder and gentler Canadian belief is sheer propaganda.
I never felt comfortable or inspired with Canada defining itself through universal health care- it's just another govt programme, no big deal. Or this reflex anti-Americanism which has become rampant in Canadian culture. It's such a tawdry way to define our national identity.
Indeed, you should face up to the fact that the brightest Canadians live in the US and this brain drain hurts us. And most of our popular culture is comprised of US entertainment. We should be comfortable with the fact that we share so much in common with America. In fact, one of the reasons America developed into an economic power that surpassed Europe is that the US didn't have to worry about historical enemies to its south and north. However, European countries had this problem all around their borders.
Canada's intellectual elite claims to protect Canadians but only suggests policies that make it harder for average Canadians to make a living.
Worrywart
10-06-2007
Flattax suffers delusions
"8. We are free riders on US defence and the strong US economy'
Have you happened to notice the increase in the CDN dollar lately? The US economy is nothing but a highly indebted shell that is continuosly pimped by the mainstream media as strong and productive.
This is absurd, the US now produces very little and saves less, which is what formerly created the US economic powerhouse. Those days are gone and the economic production strengh is moving to the east and Brasil. Canada benefits as a provider of raw materials to the production process. A massive shift will happen as increasing interest rates make US consumerism impossible as people will barely be able to eat and pay their mortgages. Foreign currencies will soon rise as the US prints money as a last gasp to keep the economy going and foreigners bail on the US dollar. Then the US standard of living crumbles.
Yet, mislead people such as Flattax want us to hitch our wagons to that economic mess? What folly!
SharingIsGood
10-06-2007
star burning out
Purely on economical grounds, the last star to which I would ever want to hitch my wagon is the US. For those who are neo-conservative and strong believers in the US system and the US way of doing things, I give you this link:
http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
and this link:
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
The US neoconservative politicians are not patriotic: they are people who work for big business/big oil, the banks and the military-industrial complex. They and the fully rightwing media have hood-winked their citizens into believing that they do things in the people's best interests and they are fiscally conservative. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Ignition
10-06-2007
Good Work, G West
You make articulate and compelling arguments.
Let me restate one point in response to your post: We need to have this discussion, whether you want to consider it or not. Deals like the SPP undermine our independence, so we, as a nation, need to make clear decisions about how close we want to get to the US.
After living in the US, I returned to Canada with a better understanding of our strength and uniqueness. I'm not afraid of this debate, and I'm not afraid of the decision Canadians would make - given an honest choice - about our ties to America.
We haven't had a real discussion about this in over 20 years. At that time, the "no" side, if you will, was led by John Turner. Next time around we'll need stronger leadership than that.
So it's time to stop the panicked, knee jerk reactions and just take a breath and make some choices about our future. This country is not as fragile as some of its most ardent defenders would have us believe.
G West
10-06-2007
Ignition
I agree with your observation completely. We need, now more than ever perhaps, to begin to stand on our own two feet and to fight for Canada's future as a strong, unique and independent member of the international community of nations and not as a lap-dog to a country that is as confused about what and who it is as the United States is today.
We have the land, the resources, an educated work-force and the potential to be both benign and successful as a member of the world wide family of nations. We must not sell our future, our forests our water resources, our oil, our natural gas or our hydroelectric power to the world's biggest debtor nation for a mess of increasingly useless American dollars.
We should establish wide spread trading relations with countries all over the world; we should keep our commitments to African development and international aid and move immediately to the levels that Norway and Denmark have done in terms of GNP percentages. We should NOT develop any more of the tar sands until such development can be done in an environmentally friendly way and when we do develop the oil sands the oil should be shipped first to Canadian markets and not foreign ones.
We should not even be considering oil and LNG tankers in the inside passage.
We should be happy that we have a better health care system than the United States does; that we have a more affordable network of universities than they do; that we do not live in the least equitable nation (apart from, I suppose Brunei) in the world. That we have two official languages and that we do not define our culture by the size of out military expenditures and the irresponsibility of our entertainment 'class'.
We need MORE peace, order and GOOD Government and less American TV, movies and lobbyists.
SayBlade
10-06-2007
Top 10 reasons to oppose the SPP
With reference to flattax's enthusiasm for bending over and becoming a slave to US interests, I post the following:
10. We are so different culturally to the US. We have more in common with Europe, Asia and the UK.
9. A common currency benefits Europe, why not us? So, we could consider adopting the Euro. It is a far larger market than the US and modern technology has created opportunities to reduce or eliminate barriers to trade.
8. The US is a money pit. According to a 2006 CIA report the US is the top debtor in the world at US $ -862,300,000,000 while Canada has a healthy balance of US $ + 20,560,000,000. China is quickly taking ownership of the US and if Canada becomes part of the US, it will be a mere resource backwater with no voice for the emerging capitalist interests in China.
7. The Canadian parliamentary system with many parties is superior to the US system of government where power is concentrated in two parties that do not serve the public interest.
6. Québec is an ally to other provinces in maintaining our unique position in North America. We are an example of how people can work together to solve problems and resolve differences under extenuating circumstances ensuring the ability to adapt to change. Without that flexibility we doomed.
5. Canada recognises that our population is as diverse as the world we live in and we protect delicate cultures, particularly in the far north from extinction.
4. Canada has more credibility and can trade with European and Asian countries more easily than the US.
3. We will understand that there is no waste in spending on social programs that enable our neighbours who cannot find adequately compensatory employment or cannot work to maintain a standard of living that allows them to spend the money they receive on goods and services produced by private corporations and business interests. Likewise, there is no waste in paying public employees, who are also our neigbours, a decent and well-living wage since they too, buy goods and services from private corporations and business interests.
2. We can use our trade opportunities with other countries as a cultural exchange and the whole world will benefit.
1. We can make it possible to prevent private broadcasters from feasting at the public trough and fund US made television programs through their lineup purchases to receive more of our hard earned tax dollars. These purchases bar Canadian writers, producers, directors, actors and all the supporting agencies and businesses that go with it -- all who are our neighbours -- to benefit.
G West
10-06-2007
Well put sayblade
One tiny correction - the CIA debt figure is a bit low. As of today, the US debt is
$ 8,846,831,882,617.08 and growing at the rate of $1.34 Billion per day.
Join the US and we'd be using our fiscal solvency to help them bail out of more upcoming incidents like this:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5282521
I agree that we'd be much better to adopt the Euro than the Greenback - but I'm more than happy to just hang on to the Loonie and keep Canada's ability to determine an independent economic policy - which we'd surrender with a common currency shared with either Europe or the US.
If the US adopts a form of universal health insurance - which it is almost certain to do before much longer - their debt will begin to grow at an even faster clip.
There never were any good reasons to join the Americans - there are only bad ones now.
doggone
10-06-2007
orders of magnitude
Is the US debt 8.846 times ten to the 12th or 8.2 times ten to the 11th?
What on earth do these numbers mean?
The currency is a fantasy (and so is the Canadian dollar) but if one has some of whatever bits of paper (or better yet: electronic credit) he/she can "contribute to the enhancement of our growing economy" by spending these ephemeral "dollars".
Nothing really happens - no food is grown, no sensible product is produced.
Nowadays the most saleable product seems to be streaming video
AAARGGHH
RickW
11-06-2007
More of what to expect.....
...even traditional conservatives in Alberta are wondering why their government is screwing with them:
http://www.aenweb.ca/node/931
wiley
11-06-2007
The big long picture
Looks to me like the US is a Liberty ship about to sink, and Canada is the closest and biggest lifeboat. That doesn't mean we should not still be Canada, and keep our distance, politically. How else do we avoid getting sucked down to the bottom with the Titanic?
The real question though: Can Canada absorb 200 million refugees without also getting swamped? Should we turn away desperate Americans and get flooded by half a billion desperate Chinese refugees anyway?
Several apocalyptic whirlwinds are gathering around our neighbours to the south: massive widespread drought, the end of cheap energy, a cascade of debt foreclosures, a trillion dollar military machine that their kids will not pay for, the imminent collapse of the hollow US dollar, an overt fascist takeover of their democratic institutions, the guaranteed loss of several major coastal cities, agricultural lowlands and half of Florida due to rising sea levels caused in part by American denial of rapid global warming feedbacks, famine due to the biofuel boom, increasing disease and a hopeless medicare system, increasing social chaos due to collapsing civil infrastructure, and a sudden rise in "kill the rich" vigilantism by an armed "left behind" populace.
Given these inevitable disaster scenarios, there doesn't seem to be much security for Canada in harmonizing with this mess, does there?
But the great green north of Canada beckons to any intelligent American who can see the survival advantages of adequate water, a less stressed society, a better climate in 30 years after the south has burned up, arable land etc etc. Canada could easily have a population of several hundred million by 2100, and what immigration policy can possibly stop it?
Okanagan Orchardist
11-06-2007
The Plan to Disappear Canada
G. West has probably best summed up the feelings of most of us in Canada and BC who would prefer to stay the "Switzerland" of the North American Continent.
Switzerland is proof that you can retain your independencece AND prosper without joining the economies of those around you.
Insofar as to who is promoting this union and who most will benefit, I believe, in my humble opinion, that it is none other than the infamous CARLYLE GROUP. Most of you who have checked out the membership, resources and purpose of this organization know that they could probably do anything in the world they set their collective minds and pocketbooks to. I am VERY sure that this group has in mind the total economic domination of North America, and with its international membership, the eventual possible control of the world.
Now this is paranoia.:))
therose
12-06-2007
To Johnathan Wheelwright
Your ten reasons are based on an assumption that Canada was started the same way as United Stated was founded. Our political systems are very different from each other and even daily life routines are played out differently in each country. At least here in Canada, medical needs are met no matter what income level you are. If a union occur, it would not bode well for Canada. The standards in Canada, and for the provinces are much higher than in the United States. It would mean that to have a union, standards must drop to the lowest bench mark, which would be United States. Can you imagine what it would be like if all of sudden, if Canadians were told all wages will be lower but the consumer goods that came from United States will rise due to transportation costs? It happened in Europe. It can certainly happen here, if the elite of North America have their way with what I consider the biggest land and resources grab done ever by one country, the United States
From a Canadian whose family has been in Canada since the Mayflower.
Yeoman
12-06-2007
Brilliant plan! Merge with
Brilliant plan! Merge with an internationally hated country that has a brutal balance of trade and megalomaniac tendancies. Sign me up!!