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Addicted to Red Tape
Open a treatment centre? 'No' is the official habit.
[This is the last in a series of opinion pieces by Berner questioning Vancouver's commitment to drug treatment. Read the first two here and here.]
People have tried. But governments, one after another, year after year, have resisted. Drug treatment just isn't sexy.
I'll show you.
The Vancouver Sun newspaper reported recently that Victoria has one treatment bed for young crystal meth addicts. One.
A parents group called "From Grief to Action" has cried out publicly for several years now that there are no facilities for their addicted children. The home base of this group is Kerrisdale. For those who can afford it, the children are often sent to centres in America.
We are told repeatedly by the politicians that we enjoy in this province "Four Pillars" of response to the problem: harm reduction, enforcement, prevention and treatment. But it is abundantly clear to even the most rosy-eyed believer among us that what we have is one pillar and three match sticks. Harm reduction, in the form of safe injection sites, needle exchanges and free heroin programs, rule. Enforcement, prevention and treatment are given short shrift and even less money.
Thank God then for the entrepreneurial spirit.
Three very wealthy people have, in recent years, tried to launch treatment programs for young addicts in this province. They have put their own considerable financial resources behind their goals. They have put their money where their mouths are and where your mouth is and where the mouths of citizens are.
That's the good news.
Here's the bad news. Two have walked away, frustrated and empty-handed. The third has folded his tent and moved to another, more accommodating district.
The big brush off
The first man is a multi-millionaire. His project for a Vancouver-based treatment centre for upwards of one hundred addicted youth was taken off the table after several years of impossible negotiations with Vancouver City Hall. Now, I happen to know this fellow and this plan very well. While it's true that his project had some planning problems and inconsistencies in its original design, it was more than salvageable. Had city hall been a little more flexible, this program would be up and running today and serving Vancouver youth in an important way. Instead, the program is slowly finding its feet in Surrey.
Locking out the mayor
The second man is the mayor of Maple Ridge. His name is Gord Robson. He promised that, if he were elected, he would open, with his own money, a treatment program for five meth-addicted youth. On November 19, 2005, Mr. Robson became mayor and, true to his election promise (how rare is this?), two weeks later he tried to open a small house in Maple Ridge staffed with a clinical psychologist and four staff members. All paid for by Mr. Robson.
But before they could admit a single client, the letter arrived.
The letter came from the Fraser Health Authority and it advised all concerned that their little house was not licensed as a "Community Care Facility." The hallways were too narrow; the doors weren't equipped with emergency push bars.
Not wishing to begin his term in public office as a criminal, Mr. Robson closed the doors of his little house.
The third individual who tried to help is a woman. A very smart and a very rich woman. She examined the landscape thoroughly before she made her move. After considerable travel, research and study, she settled on a treatment model that has proven, over 40 years now, to be effective and affordable.
She went to Vancouver City Hall. And then she went to city hall again. Then she went again. And again. She was putting her own money on the table, her own persuasive energies.
When I had coffee with her a few weeks ago, she sighed and told me that it is over. She has moved on. The irritations of dealing with petty mandarins have driven her to seek bigger, greener pastures. Vancouver's young addicts lose again.
Technical hang ups
Now in these tales lie several issues. The first is how narrow is the view of regional health authorities and municipal planning committees that they cannot see past their petty rule books and see that their communities are drowning in the tears of parents begging for treatment options. They cannot or will not grasp the larger picture. We have an epidemic of drug problems. Someone is willing to help. What can we do to help the helper? Instead, they reach for the tape measures and building code bibles. Blindness.
You think this is theory or cant? A recovered addict has been running two recovery homes in South Vancouver. All of his resident clients are clean and sober. You might think he'd be given the key to the city. Instead, he had one of his homes shut down last year because it had an extra sink in the basement. He put ten people back on the street. Blindness.
The second issue is that the circle has been locked. At this point in our collective history, all of the social agencies, all of the levels of government, all of the hospitals, all of the invested parties have joined hands. They want mastery over these issues, they want control and they have it. After all, what if something goes wrong? The only problem is they are not doing anything recognizably useful. Victoria, the capital city of the province of British Columbia, has one bed for young meth addicts, one! The document known as The Vancouver Agreement, which every politico and his cousin will praise as if it is holy writ, has bound every bureaucrat in a dance of liasing, interfacing, conferencing and god know what social intercourse to no known end.
The treatment programs that I created 40 years ago right here in Vancouver could easily be repeated, but they could never be built in the same way. In those days, before the noose of inaction tightened, we simply opened houses, began businesses and started programs without asking permission. We did the right thing and dealt with the fallout afterwards. The result is a legacy of reversed lives, lives lived clean and sober and drug free. Today, we argue pointlessly about the merits of harm reduction initiatives like the safe injection site. Some believe this is enabling addicts to remain addicts. Others believe this is a reasonable first step, while we prepare the addict for treatment.
But it is a dead argument because there is no treatment.
Demand change
Some contend that treatment is the most expensive of the four pillars and that it is, quite simply, too expensive. And they are right if you believe in the medical model, if you believe that treatment centres are mini-hospitals staffed by doctors and nurses. Yet, anyone who knows the slightest thing about addiction recovery can show you over and over again that the best, the most effective treatment centres are those run by recovering addicts themselves! And these programs are cheap and affordable at any level of government. The very same monies that go into welfare and similar payments can be utilized, per person, to pay for this kind of meaningful and lasting recovery.
If, like the mayor of Vancouver, you believe that addicts and prostitutes are hopeless, then give them more drugs and keep them oppressed and stupid. Wrap yourself in flags, and, in an almost perverse form of passive-aggressive behavior, chain the addicted to their chemical wheelchairs.
If, on the other hand, you recognize that addicts are your children, your brothers and sisters and cousins and aunts, then, please, write your MLA, write your MP, write your city council member and demand treatment. Demand a new beginning, demand some political courage, demand hard-nosed compassion and old-fashioned common sense.
David Berner is a writer, actor and radio talk show host. You can read the first two parts of his series here and here. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Who Mowed Down the Premier?
- Canada's Economy, Deconstructed (by a 12 year-old)
- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Death In Remand: 'A Gut Feeling'
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Alberta Fills Pipes with Corrosive Denial
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- How Our Immune Systems Exaggerate Fear
- BC biotech company seeks approval for GM apple
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- Does Simon Fraser University Need a Men's Centre?
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Why Blackberry's Embrace of HTML5 Is Good Karma
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- Death in Remand: A Jail Crammed with Risk
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Should You Run from that Medical Test?
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zalm
6 years ago
Comments on "Addicted to Red Tape"
Amen, David.
Your comments on the city are certainly apropos, but you do not place enough emphasis on the Health Authorities. This bizzare administrative method, taking away one
Ministry of Health which would ensure standards to be maintained across the province, is now being replicated in 6 different places, each one duplicating services and leap-frogging the other to make the web of care more arcane, complicated an expensive.
For three years, a board I serve on has been trying to get permission to build additional badly-needed intermediate and extended care beds in Richmond that all parties, the city, the health authority, and the Ministry says are needed.
We've been through several major redesigns, complex negotiations, and all we've found is that the goalposts keep moving, while the original cost, pegged at just over $80,000 per bed three years ago has just zoomed past $225,000 per bed as we are forced to add nonsensical ideas like parking spaces for seniors motorized shopping carts and change the placement of the patient gathing rooms in the facility because the view wasn't right.
Each of the health authorities is reinventing the wheel in new and complicated ways. Most of them are ending up with triangular or square versions. No liability attaches to any of the parties except the operator in these cases, whether care homes or detox facilities - each of the City, the Health Authority and the Province is insulated from liability, and their vast legal departments will assure you of that if you sit them down for a serious conversation.
So why don't they just BACK OFF and let people who want to help care for others get on with the job? Oversight is needed, but that's what the various accreditation bodies exist for. And public accountability is best served with a free, open and competitive media to inform the public when one of these operators steps out of line.
...which we are beginning to get with the Tyee and a few other journals, after years in this media wasteland.
Go David!
brain
6 years ago
I do think we have to start when kids are young and insecure. I did a lot of drugs growing up on the West Side, I went to Lord Byng. I wanted to escape teenage life. I wasn't that great in school and drugs are an escape for insecure kids. I thankfully grew out of it. But a lot of my peers are AA regulars still struggling with addiction. I would think it would be easy for teachers to see which kids are having problems. Start from there!
Rhea
6 years ago
Awesome article. I live in Maple Ridge, and crystal meth and lack of addictions treatment are huge issues which the health authority seems pleased to ignore until somebody steps on their little toes by showing up their incompetence. Then they suddenly come to life and shut it down. Government at its finest. The fiasco over the treatment house Robson opened was stupid beyond belief. I mean, what's more likely to kill people/harm the larger community...rampant crystal meth addiction or a building no more dangerous than your average house, which meets all normal building codes? Hint: It's not the building. I almost wish Robson had told the health authority to shove its letter up its collective rear and kept on with the treatment centre. An overwhelming majority of the people in Maple Ridge would have backed him.
The government has signally failed to provide treatment for addicts, or the means for them to break the cycle and help themselves. Treating people like helpless victims simply perpetuates the spiral, while programs like AA, which help people make better choices and change their lifestyles themselves, have a huge success rate. One of the reasons I would never, ever choose to live in Vancouver is the narrow-minded bureaucratic idiots running the city.
murdock
6 years ago
David writes:
If red-tape can be defined as 'power, money and control' then the government is addicted.
power = to keep people 'in their place' either indifference or addicted.
money = keeping it 'in-house' in the service of the city employees, more bonuses, more contracts to friends etc.
control = over more and more peoples' lives and more parts of their lives, control from cradle to grave, telling you when it starts and ends.
Writing love-notes will not count as an intervention in this, they are sent to the 'circular' filing cabinet #13.
David, your first thought is the right one, JUST DO IT. Do the treatment without lots of jumping up-and-down fanfare. Get it started under a federal auspice (like the prisons that you had started with - so that municipal and provincial bodies are 'trumped' by the senior level of governance) then commence expansion to those in need. When threatened with closure, call upon the 'alumni' of the treated and their families to stand tall and prevent the closure.
As your experience shows, money needs only to be small to start with, once the business-models grow the financial supports increase to allow future growth. Skip looking to the insular governments for $$$, turn to the philanthropic ones that you have noted, but ask that they do so anonymously (at least at first), so that the center can start quietly.
haraldkann
6 years ago
Isn't that what drug dealers have as well,entrprenurial spirit.
Like your ,so called RICH FRIENDS,looking to use their entreprenurial spirit to start PRIVATE CLINICS ,like they have in the UNITED MISTAKES,feeding on the MISERY of the addicts.
You consistently fall short of any real offerings here,a lot of ANECTDOTES and nothing else.
If the TYEE ,paid you for this,THEY JUST PAID FOR YOUR NAME,because the CONTENT IS WORTHLESS .
You help no one,flinging about BULL$H!T ...
if you ever had EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH A BURECRACY,you would know that.
EMPTY RHETORIC JUST TIGHTENS UP THEIR SPHICTERS AND THEY BECOME SUPRA ANAL RETENTIVES
gaulois
6 years ago
Interesting that a government that claims to cut down on red tape would let it go free when perhaps an initiave comes out of the box. I hope there will be a good follow up to this excellent story.
Gloomy
6 years ago
haraldkann:
using capital letters and being abusive seem to be your style.
If some article or posting upsets you, then count to twenty and dive up yout own *******
haraldkann
6 years ago
Gloomy being a sychophant rushes to the aid of his beloved david berner who is probably one of the nastiest two faced personalities on the radio.
GEEZ ,Gloomy ! All I can say is,BITE ME[B]
rockyvoids
6 years ago
A strange thing happens to candidates who claim to champion common sense. A win at the ballot box turns them into a spewer of nonsense.
Three well done pieces David.
spedteacher
6 years ago
brain,
There are programs in the schools that deal with drug awareness and prevention. The DARE program is presented by an RCMP officer to grades 3, 5, 7 and I think 10. I don't know what it's like in bigger centres, but in my town officer's regular duties sometimes interfere with the program (as they should) due to lack of manpower (no one is assigned specifically to teach the DARE program). In our local high school, the Drug and Alcohol Counsellor has an office and drop-in centre. She organizes various activities for students. My son is in Gr. 4 and they did a unit on drugs as part of the Personal Planning curriculum. I think drugs are a part of that curriculum at every grade level (CAPP at the secondary level). Just recently, there was a all-day crystal meth seminar presented to Gr. 7 and high school students in my town. Unfortunately, some of the students teachers know are doing crystal meth refused to attend.
Gloomy
6 years ago
Gee! is David Berner on the radio?
thank you haraldkann for telling me, and i learned a new word as well:
syc·o·phant (sÄ*k'É™-fÉ™nt, sÄ«'kÉ™-)
n.
A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.
I wonder what kind of favour i will get from a person because I happen to agree with him?
bite you? Nah, you stink
haraldkann
6 years ago
Always happy to educate the dimwitted,Gloomy .
Now i see why you use a psuedonymn ...
brain
6 years ago
That's good! They need to keep it up. My dad used to say to me try acid, try dope I don't care what you do but don't ever mess with Heroin or cocaine that will ruin your life forever. He scared me to death with the facts.
haraldkann
6 years ago
That is what should be done and in the home,unfortunately,parents usually teach their children the nasty habits they,themselves,have aquired,like smoking,drinking,bad hygene,etcetra.
brain
6 years ago
That is true! I can't stand parents that smoke around their kids. how selfish!
barryjo
6 years ago
I work with addicts through my business which is a true social enterprise which means we don't rely on any government funding. That is why programs like this work we don't have to adhere to the counter productive stipulations attached to government funding.
There is some truth in the statement that treatment doesn't work as most treatment centers are government funded and set up the clients for failure, IF THE CAN GET A BED.
I got a call a couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine realpsed after two years clean when he found out his cancer had spread. He asked me to meet with him and we went for coffeee, Through a lot of tears he told me if he doesn't quit using he will die a miserable, lonely death and he told me he wanted to get clean and if the cancer killed him he would die feeling some redemption and peace.
He couldn't get a detox bed, he couldn't get a hopspital bed and he phoned me from jail a couple of days ago. He is accused of committing a crime so he could get clean.
One of many sad stories I hear on a weekly basis and Mr. Berner is right, there is no quality treatment here for addicts just free drugs and all the support in the world to use them
This is Vancouver, you're in your car, locked in gridlock on an antiquated and failing road system and you worry about your mother who is sufferring horribly and needlessly as she waits for a knee replacement then the cell phone rings. It's your wife, your son just relapsed waiting for a treatment bed and the news comes on the radio, they have just approved millions of dollars of funding for the safe injection site and another three million dollars for Mr MacPherson's social policy (drug legalization) office at city hall.
Only in Vancouver where addiction is financed and flourishes and everyone else pays, including those trying to escape the madness of addiction.
Mercurial
6 years ago
I run a high-school based tobacco prevention program, and I think that much of the scare-based programming currently available doesn't reach the kids who are really at-risk, especially as they move into high school. What you're basically saying to kids is "If you do this drug, then you will have [xyz] catastrophic consequences on your life." With smoking for instance, kids in elementary schools are routinely told about cancer, heart disease, death, etc. The prevention programs are making the association in kids minds that smoking = illness and death, which is an effective deterrent [smoking rates in BC have fallen almost 10% in the last decade]. But the problem with simple associations like this one is that as soon as kids have a peer who is smoking [or using another drug] without immediately experiencing the negative health consequences, the prevention program will start to feel like a lie. At the same time, smokers [and other drug users] reap some social 'benefits' from their behaviour, by being perceived as perceived as 'adult' or 'rebellious.' I think prevention is important, and I think that 100% prevention is not possible. Parents, peers, role models, and general teen angst play a part in drug use, and as long as there's teen angst [like, um, always] kids will experiment with available drugs. I like to think that for kids whose experiments turn into full-blown addiction, there is access to some form of treatment.
It seems unfortunate to me that it is so difficult to start a treatment facility, even on a very small scale like the house in Maple Ridge. Could somebody clarify for me why the Health Authorities and other regulating bodies are so hyper-cautious? Especially if, as one previous poster mentioned, they excuse themselves from liability. I usually think that excessive-seeming rules are an attempt to avoid liability, but if that's not the case here what is their rationale? What is it that they're really worried about?
haraldkann
6 years ago
[/B]WOW,one of the most succint points to come across in awhile[B]
We need BETTER EDUCATION of our SOCIETY AS A WHOLE,STARTING WITH OUR CHILDREN...
TEACH,YOUR CHILDREN WELL...
and your"s will be a society that leads .
murdock
6 years ago
haraldkann opines:
and your"s will be a society that leads .
given that the system mentioned in Mercurial's post is not working in the schools, that leaves whom to do that teaching of the children?
23_bob
6 years ago
I am sorry that you have not looked at the actual numbers as to just how much money is spent on Enforcement in the Four Pillars.
You were so right in stating that it is one pillar and three match sticks, you just got the names wrong.
Out of the Four pillars, Enforcement, recieves over 90% of the over all money spent.
That means harm reduction, prevention and treatment get the short and make do with less.
Harm Reduction is still new and very missunderstood as well as under funded.
Lets not jumped to conclussions and throw out that which has never been allowed to run the way it is suppose to.
murdock
6 years ago
good points 23_bob,
I would think that the 'four-pillars' is really just a different name for the 'war on drugs' as waged in the US.
given the actions taken by successive Vancover City Hall occupants, as you presented them, I say that the 1 pillar and 3 matchsticks is just a 'war on drugs' in drag.
Gloomy
6 years ago
Thank you so much!
Perhaps you can help me some more?
I have been looking for a fancy word to explain that while intelligent and educated, this person uses personal attacks(as you did on Mr. Benner) when unable to formulate a proper argument.
That word could come in handy on these sites!
Yes, some sign (what may be) their real name, others have learned that the weird people carry their vengeance to the extreme, and so prefer to remain anonymous.
haraldkann
6 years ago
Berners a bull$h!t $ale$man...he gave anectdotal evidence as fact in a story that was nothing more than a rhetorical device to sell his CRAP...
read the whole series,look for verifiable evidence and then talk to me...
it is nothing more than a piece of crap sold to the GULLIBLE for a few dollars,the guy is a real JUDAS .
people are suffering and KLOWNS likeBerner and his ilk are feeding off the misery .
murdock
6 years ago
gloomy,
the words are ad hominem
some definitions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/attack.php
seems to be happening a lot around Tyee lately...
haraldkann
6 years ago
Every attack on that CRETIN used the facts that i posted...the fact that his series of stories have ABSOLUTELY NO VERIFIABLE FACTS.
As an ex mental health worker,i know the paperwork that you have to go through with any program that is funded and has drug /liability issues,paper work is what usually kills these programs because...EVERYTHING HAS TO BE RECORDED.
Then again,i have nailed you a couple of times with ad hominems,when you got in the line of fire.
let's be AMERIKAN about it and call it ,friendly fire...
Gloomy
6 years ago
Thank You Murdock, us dimwits can learn a lot here!
Somehow I believe that sound reasoning is possible, even if lacking the fancy words.
I for one respect solid arguments for or against.
It does not impress me that some feel a need to write page after page, documenting how smart they are; the facts will do thank you!
haraldkann
6 years ago
funny that,david berner ...gave no facts ,yet you lauded him for his excellent stories.
WOW ! We got Gloomy channeling ,Einstien .
Kwilson
6 years ago
What this city needs is a Berner Blog where you can air your views more frequently and garner the support of like-minded people. Blogs - like the show you had on that radio station I am now boycotting - can be very powerful and I encourage you to start one. Psst...if you put advertising on it, you can earn income too. Blogs can do more than pay for themselves.
As a person who had the misfortune to grow up in an alcoholic home, I'm more than familiar with the destructive and manipulative nature of addiction. For a time I was an enabler (like our city, in a way) and later I grew a spine and started giving ultimatums and sticking to them. At the ripe age of 16 I walked out of my family home and told my mother she could call me when she sobered up. It took her 30 years and that's partly because so many of her friends bought her alcohol, supported her drinking, made excuses for her, rescued her repeatedly, etc etc. It was only when she was asked to choose between the bottle and seeing her grandson again that she quit drinking. And for all her protestations over the years that she couldn't do it, she did do it. She achieved an alcohol free life.
Addicts CAN change if they want to and if the appropriate supports are in place, including tough love.
Eventually my mother died from a dreadful cancer caused by long term alcohol consumption and cigarette smoking...but she died sober and she died with her kids at her bedside. She died with dignity.
Having witnessed addiction first hand, I can never support "harm reduction." I know it's wrong wrong wrong.
Addiction is an intolerable condition and every addict knows this in their heart. But what can they do when there's no help for them and some nurse is standing by with a clean needle full of heroin? We need drug courts and we need long-term rehab. Portland Oregon has drug courts that see addicts promptly and sentence them on the same day. Arrested addicts are given two options: jail time or rehab. Either way they're going to have to clean up. Invariably the addict picks rehab because they environment is more aesthetically pleasing and supportive. But rehab has strict terms and conditions and if you break the rules in a Portland rehab facility you're transfered to jail. There is no "harm reduction" i.e. shooting up allowed. They've significantly reduced their drug problem.
But here in Vancouver we're opting to help inject these people and we're calling this healthy addiction. It's insane.
Abandoning people to save a few bucks in the short term is an amoral approach. In the long run enabling addiction costs society so much more. But what politician has ever cared about investing in the future?
And Vancouverites seem to swallow the four pillar propaganda hook, line and sinker, because they really don't want to look at it too closely. They don't want to pay. They're self centred and indifferent, too.
I appreciate what the Mayor's achieved personally in spite of his disability. But the man's a cold fish in some respects. He needs to step back and re-evaluate this whole thing.
Kwilson
6 years ago
P.S. It's not really four pillars, by the way, but one (free drugs and clean needles) and three phantoms that have yet to be realized. I doubt they ever will be realized. I've witnessed up close the cottage industry of governments funding endless social programs that do very little to change anything in the DTES. They wear their educational badges, and are quick to enforce a certain ideology and politically correct language but really, some of these people are festering parasites. If healing occurred they'd be out of business. They depend on that misery continuing.
For example, how often have you heard the "advocates" of prostitutes on the radio promoting prostitution as a viable career choice. One of these gals was on CBC saying what's needed is a paradigm shift in our thinking about various forms of prostitution. As if the crack addicted women at risk on the DTES streets are anywhere near comparable to the penthouse-dwelling call girls who pick and choose their clientele. Hello!
And as if any of those women would be on the street if they weren't on crack. It boggles the mind.
The proponents of the so-called four pillar approach should be forced to call it "one teetering pillar" until they actually commit to the other three.
murdock
6 years ago
Kwilson wrote:
Abandoning people to save a few bucks in the short term is an amoral approach. In the long run enabling addiction costs society so much more. But what politician has ever cared about investing in the future?
This is too true.
The concentration of the 'problem' in the DTES is another factor for concern. By focussing all the problems in that one area, it may become a fast way to 'clean it up' by demolishing the buildings (or just declare them 'uninhabitable').
Once again, turning to the people that helped to create the problem (medicinal heroine, free needles, supervised injection sites, etc.) is not a sane choice. What is needed is for more folks to 'just do' the detox, in the manner that David Berner did - see the second part in the series.
Just as Bill W did.
spedteacher
6 years ago
If my cousin was given free drugs it would kill her. It wouldn't stop her from prostituting herself to get the crack and herion, free drugs would just mean that she'd get higher for a longer period of time. She's told me this herself and said that the free injection sites are a joke.
haraldkann
6 years ago
Funny how the free drug maintenance system in the British Isles is working,without any DEATHS.
i have run across anectdotes about drug users for years and can say ,most druggies are manic when spouting off and it's more bravado than fact,when they get to the depressed level,when they need a hit,you will find them pleading like a small child,often crying like a baby...
their behaviours are constantly changing with the amount of DRUGS in their system and they can be and are ,the most MANIPULATIVE/PYSCHOPATHIC PEOPLE,you will ever run into...having one in the family will soon have you thinking of disowning that child...as many have done .
IT,IS A HARSH,UNREALISTIC LIFE FOR ALL PARTIES.
Colin
6 years ago
IT,IS A HARSH,UNREALISTIC LIFE FOR ALL PARTIES.
Oh lord I am agreeing with Harldkann
I have had 3 friends die of drug OD, carried my friend’s son to emergency while OD on heroin, watched him pick up a hit to take into the Sally Ann detox. There is no easy path. Giving them free drugs will solve some of the immediate problems, but will prolong the agony. Treating the addiction as a disease is important, but it is a resource heavy problem and will mean in the current state cutting back on something else in the medical system.
Frankly I still think that Capital punishment for the 2nd or 3rd hard drug dealing offence still has merit, I know that many people here don’t like that idea, but I have seen how drug dealers treat people and they have to be some of worst low lifes around.
As far as red tape is concerned, your petty bureaucrats are bound by the laws and bylaws they enforce, to knowingly not enforce them, makes them personally liable for any injuries, deaths and lose their job. However their political masters can make policies and exemptions for certain cases, this puts the liability and the criticism at the appropriate level. The pettiness being experienced is likely caused by a reluctance or lack of direction from their bosses.
barryjo
6 years ago
Spedteacher,
You are correct in your assumption that your cousin would probably die fron free drugs.
I know if they would have been around when I was in my addictyion I'd be pushing up daises now.
And no one can claim, such as Haraldkann, that free drug maintainence programs don't kill people.
The folks at the SIS rant and rave about how no one has od and died at their shootin gallery. Addicts in Switzerland note that addicts using safe injection sites there use more quantity at the site because they know they will be revived if they go over the edge. The tolerance gets built up and when addicts shoot up anywhwere but the SIS they use as much to get the buzz and some older addicts, in particular, that were very careful od and die as there tolerance is built up but there is no one around to bring them back.
No one has died at the SIS but quite a few die as a result of huge tolerances built up at the SIS. During the first year the Vancouver SIS was in operation they had one more death from od than when the previous year when the SIS wasn't in operation. Then remember that bad dope last year. 11 addicts dies from overdoses in spite of the SIS being in operation, most addicts don't want to use it. Drive by the alley on any given day and you will see needles and people shooting up right behind it while it is open.
It's a sad situation down there.
haraldkann
6 years ago
your dialog is really all over the map,when ,it is considered closely
Do you really have any facts,studies,journals that the government REQUIRES when these types of programs are utilized ?
OR ARE YOU JUST UTILIZING A RHETORICAL DEVICE TO GAIN SYMPATHY AND AQUIRE CONTACTS FOR FUTURE CONTRACTS ?
typical fund raiser,hyperbole put words in the mouths of the percieved opposition find ...where i said that !
i said in that program things seemed to be going well ,with no deaths...to date.
Your preaching to the CONVERTED barryjo,and people like me want to see the numbers not hyperbole,not anectdotes and certainly,not bull$h!t...
and as Colin notes,the pettiness of the burecrats/bourgeosie is really nothing more thanjob protection.
AND I ALWAYS GET A LAUGH WHEN THE JUNKIES TELL ME ,I AM TOO EDUCATED TO UNDERSTAND ...
it's no wonder that you find your position threatened because you cannot,like BERNER give,facts,evidence and your status
is tenuous at best.
like the predators we are,you guard your prey,the miserable,you feed on...
barryjo
6 years ago
haraldkann,
Don't need to hype anything, never looked for government contracts or money, I'm not interested. I just try to give back to the society that I took from for so many years
Actually I have done several grant proposals for other organizations and I do have to use all the required facts, comparisons and case studies etc. so they can get the funding they desire.
I'm really not interested in this little dialouge we are having, I posted comments on here because I am passionate about the subject (addiction + recovery) and have dedicated my life to doing what I can to make a difference.
If you want to sit down face to face let me know and we'll meet. If I am going to discuss something that will take time I would prefer to do it face to face.
thomas49
6 years ago
if U are really dedicated ,you would post ,FACTS AND FIGURES ,ANYWHERE...glad the ,woman of my dreams is so slow ...SOMETIMES
thomas49
6 years ago
I note my brother really got HEATED in this argument,he left ,quite hot under the collar .
i just ran across this interesting story and it is typically,as he says,a report that should be scrutinized before anyone makes bold statements they cannot back up
and these Berner articles,really leave much to be desired for a [B]RATIONAL DEBATE[B]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060423/sc_nm/science_choice_dc_2
haraldkann
6 years ago
http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/29/4/126
http://www.google.com/search?source...diction+trials+
just ,some of the material available
there are world wide trials for various addictions and all have merit of some sort
all the information/facts can be found GOOGLING
funny DAVID BERNER can't offer his data base up
sweetlilac
6 years ago
[B]I spoke briefly with David last night and just finished reading his article's. As a recovering addict/alcoholic, I agree with Mr. berner and I look forward to further discussion with him.
Bonnie Paquette
haraldkann
6 years ago
sweetlilac sez ...
haraldkann sez ... looks like david berner is strutting out the sympathy vote... the weak minded ,weak willed ,that are only to easy to manipulate .
How many street corners have you stood on to get your fix...how many disgusting sexual acts/perversions have you performed to get that HIT
So,who are we to beleive,a HACK LIKE BERNER saying you people could have gotten off drugs anytime, or,barryjo,saying it takes a little soul searching after a lot of abuse ?
There seem to be a lot of CONTRADICTIONS in these articles/drivel .
AND ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS,FIGURES,OR SQUAT !
just BULL$H!T ,by BERNER and his acolytes .
haraldkann
6 years ago
this is the BULLSHIT BERNER PURVEYS ...
commentor: haraldkannposted: 1 Minute Agohttp://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...en&ct=clnk&cd=4
THE ONLY THING FOUND CONCERNING ARTICLE ...
this is the kind of parasite that feeds of the weak minded ...
BC Dude
6 years ago
Organized crime & lil evil creeps like Basi, verk, Boneman, BC Libs etc are the only ones who make huge profits by killing peoples will to live by addictions and arresting the homeless, prostitutes, taking away welfare, etc.
Now evicting & taking down SRO (single room occupancy)slums just in time for 2010 BS!
This has left a bad taste in peoples mouth about our Fire fighters being the bad guys.
Another 192+ homeless for what so the rich get richer it is only them that will be able to afford the Whistler slopes after!
http://thetyee.ca/News/2006/04/12/SROHotel/
This is the evil crap that I think The Tyee is doing a great job to bring real truth to the people through journalists like David Berner! As Canwest is bought & paid for by the so called elightists or "cream de la cream" gone sour.
sweetlilac
6 years ago
Harald Kann.....
Stay tuned. You obviously have little or no understanding of the huge and many dynamics which lures and keeps addicts stuck in their addiction. Come and talk with me. I'll tell yuo all about it. And yes, I've stood on corners etc etc etc. A persons drug of choice is merely their "bandaid". The real healing begins once the bandaid is ripped off that festering wound. And it does work. If one wants it.
As to the person who posted about SRO rooms in preparation for 2010. The same thing happened for Expo 86. Take a look at the new & improved Patricia Hotel.
haraldkann
6 years ago
i lived in Gastown from 1979/82 and stayed briefly at the Lamplighter/Dominion in 1985 while working with my brother ,who is a photographer and has a studio in that area.
I am well aware of the BROKEN PEOPLE/DREAMS in this city.
When i put a persons feet to the fire,i do not expect HYPERBOLE,i want ...FACTS..i see none in these threads of BERNER'S.
i WOULD LIKE TO SEE,PEOPLE BETTER OFF,NOT JUST TALK ABOUT IT.
that takes the RIGHT APPROACH/PROGRAMS/MONEY/COMPASSION...not , BULL$H!T ... AND THAT IS ALL DAVID BERNER HAS OFFERED .
then again , it's an easy buck/$
haraldkann
6 years ago
: haraldkannposted: 1 Minute Agohttp://www.bhf.ca/history.htm
Quote:
1981 - Programs were undergoing reviews by senior staff as we moved away from the "my way or out you go" mentality of the seventies. We initiated a formal 90-day interview goal orientated process for residents preparing to go to school or to enter the work force.
Seems Berner was one of those on a power trip and the only two interesting benchmarks during his EMPLOYMENT/HE WAS SALERIED...WAS PHILIP J DICK'S STAY AND MONEY MISMANAGEMENT...
LINKS HERE...
http://www.tvwiki.tv/wiki/A_Scanner_Darkly
Quote:
After delivering "The Android and the Human", Dick became a participant in X-Kalay (a Canadian Synanon-type recovery program), effortlessly convincing program caseworkers that he was nursing a heroin addiction to do so. This is portrayed in his 1988 book The Dark-Haired Girl (a collection of letters and journals from this general period, most of an achingly romantic nature). Presumably, this is a source for the vividness and accuracy with which the novelistic clinic is portrayed. It was at X-Kalay, while doing publicity for the facility, that he devised the notion of rehab centers being used to secretly harvest drugs (later extrapolated upon in the novel).
http://www.legis.gov.bc.ca/HANSARD/...0315a.htm#01222
Quote:
I refer to the X-Kalay Foundation, which last submitted an annual report on June 28, 1971. It received something like $11,000 a month from the provincial government, and, as I understand it, has been in a considerable amount of financial difficulty.
So ,we got POWER TRIPS , MONEY DISAPPEARING AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE ... SOME GREAT EXAMPLE DAVID BERNER TROTS OUT...SMALL WONDER HE DID NOT OFFER UP ANY ...FACTS
DJT
6 years ago
Maybe the VPD has a vested interest in the discouragement of treatment. Talk about job security.
Truman Green
6 years ago
Well HeraldKann, you've done your best to "out" David Berner but the gullibility of these Berner fans is pretty persistent. Don't forget to read his other tyee article "The Rabbi's Plugged IN," where he brags about calling in his Hell's Angels buddies to deal with some small time street dealers in front of his business, you silly believers.
And Berner's half-way house was called "X-Kalay",but I guess he just forgot to mention it. It was very well known in the 70's, and controversial, not just the obvious brilliant success that he makes it out to be with his heroin addicts that kicked the habit in four days.
There is probably no remedy for gullibility, but try to be a bit critical of what you read people.
HeraldKann's got it right!
Truman Green
6 years ago
Oh, and spedteacher, what was your name, again?
haraldkann
6 years ago
Yes , you are so right Truman , I tried to sound like Berner as well to see if I could get some of the converted out of their navel gazing long enough to understand that there are many avenues open to get addicts cleaned up.
Only problem seems to be the lack of will ...
The casualties of a sick society .