Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.

Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.

When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.

A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.

FAST VISUALS /WORDS MAKE SLOW EMOTIONS EXTINCT.

SCIENTIFIC /INDUSTRIAL /FINANCIAL THINKING DESTROYS EMOTIONAL CIRCUITS.

A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.

A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.

To read the complete article please follow either of these links :

PlanetSave

EarthNewsWire

sushil_yadav

This query is totally

This query is totally unrelated, but when Google fails...

Can anyone remember the name of the senior French civil servant (a woman, and a graduate of E.N.A., France's A-list civil service university) who published a satirical book a few years ago about work in the public sector? It was written as a sort of 'how to look effective while doing nothing' manual for public sector executives, with some cutting insights into bureaucratic culture.

It hit the headlines about two or three years ago.

Gallery

Those are powerful images and Burtynsky is articulate.
I wish he saw a good reason to photograph "unspoiled" landscapes and happy wild animals cavorting about there but I think I know where he is coming from and why: he is concerned about our impact on the planet.
The point made: that still images (done well) are more impressive than narratives mixed with imagery is well taken. I viewed the gallery once and can now play the images in my head at will (and sometimes when I'd rather be paying attention to other things)

To: Nightbloom

Nightbloom:

For what it's worth and if it helps ( if you haven't already tried this)...I find that Bookstores can often track it down, and "USED bookstores" can often be the best subgroup ....amazing how they can often track it down with even a vague description.

It sounds interesting though.

To: Nightbloom

Nightbloom:

For what it's worth and if it helps ( if you haven't already tried this)...I find that Bookstores can often track it down, and "USED bookstores" can often be the best subgroup ....amazing how they can often track it down with even a vague description.

It sounds interesting though.

To: Nightbloom

Nightbloom:

For what it's worth and if it helps ( if you haven't already tried this)...I find that Bookstores can often track it down, and "USED bookstores" can often be the best subgroup ....amazing how they can often track it down with even a vague description.

It sounds interesting though.

See the film

Try and get to see the Mongrel Media film made around Burtynsky's images.
http://www.mongrelmedia.com/films/ManufacturedLandscapes.html

It's mentioned briefly in the text above. Many more images, some very troubling, but all making the same point you have doggone.

To: Nightbloom

Nightbloom:

For what it's worth and if it helps ( if you haven't already tried this)...I find that Bookstores can often track it down, and "USED bookstores" can often be the best subgroup ....amazing how they can often track it down with even a vague description.

It sounds interesting though.

To: Nightbloom

Nightbloom:

For what it's worth , and if it helps(and if you already haven't tried it), I might suggest a USED Bookstore, they are often excellent at sourcing books with even vague descriptions.

Sounds interesting though.

PS I lost my original response in cyber space...a first for me using the NEW TYEE FORMAT.

This query is totally unrelated

Nightbloom wrote:

Avec plesir: Corinne Maier.

This query

Nightbloom wrote:

Avec plesir: Corinne Maier.

Beat me to it bluenose

http://corinnemaier.free.fr/accueil.html

She worked part-time for an electrical utility...

To: Nightbloom

Nightbloom:

For what it's worth , and if it helps(and if you already haven't tried it), I might suggest a USED Bookstore, they are often excellent at sourcing books with even vague descriptions.

Sounds interesting though.

PS I lost my original response in cyber space...a first for me using the NEW TYEE FORMAT.

repeat postings

I'm getting multiple posting of the same thing from Maestro and Nightbloom. I am also have some glitches - especially when logged in with Explorer

There's a problem at their end

This thread is defaulting to a 'page not found' and everyone's posting again because they think the items been dropped. It hasn't and therefore the double or triple copies.

If you go back to 'home' and then click on the thread again you'll see whats happened - my view.

yep, that's it

just happened again - ignore the 'page not found'

That's her! - Thanks! I

That's her! - Thanks!

I remembered some of her biographical details incorrectly (University of Paris, not ENA)

The book that made her notorious is "Hello Laziness" (Bonjour Paresse).

Here's the Maclean's short review of it:
http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/article.jsp?content=20051007_155456_616

Could have been General Motors or Ford

Or almost any department in academia. Or the new Accenture division of the BC MSP...I know a lady who lost her husband just before Xmas - getting things arranged for herself has been a nightmare of calls to a centre somewhere in the United States. Bizarre and pathetic.

As wealth can not be created

As wealth can not be created and costs can not be cut, only transferred, photographing environmental damage is the record of the transferred costs of wealth taking.

Nothing could be simpler.

Ed Deak.

The film

Try to see the film if you can Ed. The long opening sequence - the camera slowly moves longitudinally along the length of a seemingly endless factory with row after row of workers assembling consumer crap...seems never ending and mind numbing.

To work there must be torture.

I don't think I can see the

I don't think I can see the film, as we don't have any such around here and it costs us $50. to go to town in any case.

At the same time, I fully realize what working in such places means, or sleeping in dormitories in the "warm" beds of workers on shift. I have worked in places, where the foremen were free to kick, slap, or beat anybody they wanted and grab any woman worker anywhere.

This is what I mean, repeated endlessly, that the products coming out of such factories are not "cheaper", but that the real costs are transferred on the workers, their families, communities, environment, etc.

There's no such thing as "cheaper", only who pays the real costs and when ?

Ed Deak.

I understand, Ed

It's the kind of thing that may one day be on the web I suppose and you might be able to download it and watch....but, as you say, you know the score.

There's another little scene shortly after the opening sequence where they show these ranks of identically clothed young men an women being harrangued by their 'squad leader' or moral coach...that is also truly creepy and would no doubt have echoes for you.

We do what we can, each in our small way.
Cheers.

Meant to find the link

but the link to Mongrel did not work. I did, however, find some other link which showed snippets of the stuff that G West describes

Manufactured landscapes again

http://www.mongrelmedia.com/films/ManufacturedLandscapes.html

Maybe this will work better. If you have Quicktime installed it should play a video of the movie trailer....

and the point is

You and I and most "objectors" are buying products "Made In China" whether we know it or not.
Could be that Burtynsky's pictures will portray BC line workers soon.
T'wasn't that long ago that we had the "Iron Chink" and fish processor lines

Ironies abound.

No question.

Just learned that Denny Doherty of the Mamas and Papa died - I posted a column on the Lies.Com thread.

I saw that

and the lines came back:
"Monday,Monday, Can't trust that day"
He was writing about this stuff

Dang that image

The photo at the top of this page could be a setting in a Sci Fi movie - some "Klingon" home planet.
Has everyone heard all my jokes yet?

What is the similarity between the "Starship Enterprise" and "Toilet Paper"?

I was going to make you wait but:

They both circle around Uranus
wiping out
Kling ons.

I am not proud of these weird things, I just have knowledge of them.

Dilbert?

Corinne Maier:
The Art and the Importance of Doing the Least Possible in the Workplace

The flag of capitalism should be that of a snake eating it's own tail.......

Mongrel Media

I was looking through the Mongrel links at the other stuff they have available. I couldn't find Manufactured Landscapes any where on the net, but I did get get a hold of and just finished watching Jesus Camp. It is a fascinating look at a fundamentalist evangelical christian indoctrination camp for kids. I think it's worth taking a look at. Interestingly Ted Haggard makes a brief appearance, this of course before his gay sex and drug scandal.

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

The title of this article is

The title of this article is wrong, because it is global capitalism that's framing the world, not the other way around.

Ed Deak.

We all frame the world

Dear Ed; I think you're right, whatever we do, when added up together, is what our world is at any given moment. However, our problem isn't the uses of capital. Our problem is dealing with powerful criminals.

The difficulty is in settling on any kind of sensible definitions. Capitalism, Communism. The point of both is to be able to undertake large public works by concentrating sufficient amounts of money. Modern life demands huge commons be maintained, and huge infrastructures be continually extended to include more and more people. They're really both ways of managing capital. Both have been utterly betrayed by those who came to power.

So when corporate collectivists call themselves Capitalists, and socially active middle class suburbanites are called socialists, I have to shake my head.

It isn't true. So why is it so important to the media that we believe it?

The global nature of the crime wave we all keep dancing around is worrying, to be sure. It's hard to see much scope for improvement from traditional methods. The peasants are unlikely to be able to successfully storm the Bastille when it's in Cuba.

I personally keep falling back onto the smaller, firmer truth. We can change the world by changing ourselves. Whatever we ourselves become, becomes our contribution to the framing of the world.

If we insist that criminals be punished, it is more likely they will be. If we insist that high standards be maintained, that checks and balances and auditors and watchdogs be strong and powerful, then it's less likely that the rich will be able to enslave our children.

Bailey.....Bank deregulation

Bailey.....Bank deregulation gave our so called capitalists an infinite weapon, created from thin air.

Old time colonizers used, and still use, the energy contained in real weapons, plus religious scriptures, to conquer and enslave.

Today's colonizers are using the perceived energy contained in imaginary capital, backed by the scriptures of the pseudo religion of neoclassical economics to do the same.

And they're wildly successful, which boggles the mind! But then, how could Stalin and Hitler, et al, get away with their bag of tricks?

If there's anything endless in this world, and has been through history, it is the gullibility and stupidity of the human race.

Ed Deak.

Good faith and trust

Dear Ed; You know you've hit on a fundamental truth. The center of your thesis is that money is a theoretical fiction that has fallen into the hands of counterfeiters. It is an important thing to understand, but money has always been a fiction. It's the very nature of the thing. Even metallic gold, the highest quality money, was only ever a representitive of value. A medium of exchange. It's main utility as currency lay in its impossibility to counterfeit and the fact that it doesn't rust or shrink.

Bankers since the Medicis have always created credit out of thin air. When the American banks floated their credit cards a few decades ago, it wasn't really all that unconventional economically.

Once the gold standard was removed we settled inevitably onto the inflationary cycle. The proverbial wheelbarrow of paper to buy a loaf of bread. It always happens, it has to happen. It's happening.

Credit cards simply add a third tier of fiction: Gold is a representation of value, paper money is a symbol of that representation, credit is an invisible wheelbarrow with which to transfer the value around. The energy, as you point out.

Our problem lies not in the economics, but in the economists. Hitler and Stalin did their dirty deeds by corrupting economics, lying to their constituants to make them believe that dark was light, left was right, right was wrong, and that they could be trusted. Much like such criminals as the Bush family, the Saud family, the Walton family and their ilk are doing to their own constituants now.

Their constituants are ordinary people, raising families, doing jobs, working toward a future they have neither time, opportunity nor inclination to examine minutely.

It's not gullibility and stupidity, Ed. It's trust, belief in human nature, hope for the future. Faith that they will be able to do what they can, leave something to their kids, and those whose job is to look after the economy will be reasonably competent to do that.

And all we need to ensure that faith is to maintain our laws in such repair that when Hitler or Bush make their play, they can be arrested and tried. As criminals should always be.

I think a very good move would be to remove the legislature from the control of the guardians. While politicians can make laws, as we see nearly every day now, crooked ones can make themselves safe from prosecution. We need to take the making of laws into the hands of the people directly. However big a pain in the neck that would be for us voters.

That might go a long way to solving your concerns and protecting the rights of the people from these parasites and predators who have gotten rich off the wars and miseries of these ordinary people while they were busy living their lives.

Good post

Nice post Bailey

Bailey, Ed and all:

Not to mention that it is REALLY useful in making neat things with.

But in this vein, we should consider as well, the "invention" of cities, of agriculture, of language, and of religion, as well as money as nothing more than various means of control.

I don't for a minute believe any of the above was "discovered" so much as organized. Our history books (written by the "winners") have led us astray. Humans, as a matter of simple survival, would know variously of a collection of dwellings (the village); that seeds, tubers, et al, take root and produce more of the same, and that some animals are more docile than others (agriculture and animal husbandry); of a means of communication (language); an awareness of the wonders of nature (religion); and, being natural traders, a way of representing things of interest without necessarily and laboriously trucking them hither and yon (chits, wampum, money).

That some means of social control were adopted and others castigated or outright banned and outlawed, is not an indication of "progress", so much as being the footholds of totalitarianism, and restrictions of individual freedoms.

Capitalism ?

1/ With what would you replace capitalism, Ed? IMHO, what we're all decrying here is Fascism, not capitalism.
2/ "Progress", which we all agree is ultimately self-defeating, has been the pursuit of humankind throughout time, and without its results, none of would be here moaning about it. Shouldn't we instead be discussing the relative merits of Nihilsm?
3/ It is my understanding that throughout time philosophers have argued whether or not the "common man" is self-governable. I think the answer has almost always been in the negative. Evem Marx, with his tremendous concern for the "masses", called us the "Lumpenproletariat", a not very nice term.
4/ When the idea of Democracy was first being advanced, few thinkers (both liberal and conservative) thought it could work - not because they thought its idealism was bad, but because they held the same view as Marx.
5/ Clearly, as a result of a lack of citizen participation, Democracy has become merely a bad joke, proving the early predictions correct.
5/ Perhaps then, maybe the neocons now following Leo Strauss' Neo-liberalism - aka "The Market" - have the answers?

Me3....Marx would have done

Me3....Marx would have done anything for the so called "working class" except joining it, living in squalor, bumming for handouts from his friends, his children starving. He was a goddamn phoney, as most economic prophets. I have no patience with any, especially with those who don't live what they preach. I have seen nazism and communism and have a 6o odd year record fighting all forms of dictatorships.

As a dedicated "private enterpriser", as opposed to "free...." and "capitalist", I would say, we had a reasonably balanced system in the first 30, or so, years after WW2, with a mixed economy, under public control under the system of the "national state", faulty as it may have been. Big business still had too much power, but it was controlled, at least to a certain extent, through the limited money creation powers of the banks.

Now their power is totally out of control, thanks to the garbage science of neoclassical economics and, of course, as you point out, the Straussian ideology of
"Uebermenschen", or Supermen.

I also agree that, as it happened through history, democracies self destruct when the people permit and give ruling classes extra and unlimited powers.

I'm hoping for a great awakening before humanity destroys itself and Earth and will keep on fighting for it to the last minute.

Ed Deak.

.

It Takes A Whole Village To Raise A Child

That little homily about sums it up.

Me3:

The further we get from the intent of that "quaint" saying, the more artificial we become, and the less human for it.

And capitalism does not have the means or inclination to address it. The family unit is a distinct "anti-capitalist" association. And the family unit is what being human is all about. All else is moot.

Check out Robert Heinlein's notions of family........

die Ubermenchen

Dear Ed; Once again, your observations cut to the center of the matter.

I hadn't considered the delusional state of politics these last few decades in those archaic terms, but of course you're right.

The mythology of this hyper-capitalism of our lamented times, from Rand's John Galt through Heinlein's Lazarus Long is very Nietchean in nature. I tend myself to think in terms of Jungean rather than Nietchean archetypes. One sees so little Seigfried in people these days.

How grotesque that these poor delusional half-men drooling over their shiny toys might be thinking of themselves as some kind of magic superiour over-class. Obsessed with money and status to the extent that they will permit millions to die of want, rather than organize themselves to provide for it, unless they are offered further millions for themselves to do it.

Laughable, really, if it wasn't so high a tragedy. Mr. Burns as Ubermench.

When I was little, I was very fond of Scrooge McDuck comics. That duck really knew what he wanted, still had his first dime, could swim in gold coins in his giant vault. It had a diving board.

He could always be persuaded to finance an expedition with his cousin Donald and nephews Huey, Dewey and Louie to seek a new fortune or rescue a valued employee from the pirates.

I think I'd prefer him to Walmart, as somebody to trust with foreign relations

Scrooge McDuck

He seemed to do it, his money worshipping, with very little mean-spiritedness about it. In fact, the money seemed almost incidental as a commodity, didn't it? He was always something of a fellow traveller (but not really a partner) with that crazy inventor/techie Gyro Gearloose. I suppose that was the didactic purpose behind old Walt's invention. The beautiful coincidence of money and invention, the technocrats’ dream of solving all the world’s problems – sort of a comic book version of Warren Buffet and Bill Gates.

I found Scrooge sympathetic too Bailey. As a boy, it never occurred to me why. That is to say, I wonder if there was a 'raison' behind his being characterized so benignly?

I can't think of many models for that kind of behavior from the fifties era, or since, for that matter.

Blending in, you become what you blend in with

For Progressive citizens, I borrowed these remarks from comments made elsewhere, from someone who I hope will forgive me because I forget where I found it. But it seems so true, so valuable, it was worth ... um, er ... borrowing (with thanks):

The problem is that when you start blending in, you start to become what you blend in with.

When you wear the mask for a long time, the mask starts to become you.

Even to the extent that it doesn't, when you begin bowing to expediency you never recover the courage you set aside. And it grows.

You may start by saying "well, if I fought this battle I'd lose to no purpose and my influence would be reduced for the next situation when I could make a difference".

But once the basic logic is admitted, you move on to "Well, I could win this battle, but I'd lose campaign contributions and influence--gotta take the long view".

Eventually you forget what difference you wanted to make, anyway. On any given issue, if all the politicians legislated and voted the way the conscience they had before they started 'blending in', the good guys would win.

There aren't enough actually evil politicians to carry the day, normally.

Evil in politics is created by a whole lot of people accepting that doing evil is the way to 'blend in' in hopes of doing some good, or at least slightly lesser evil, some time in the unspecified future when it will finally be convenient.

Blending in, you become what you blend in with

For Progressive citizens, I borrowed these remarks from comments made elsewhere, from someone who I hope will forgive me because I forget where I found it. But it seems so true, so valuable, it was worth ... um, er ... borrowing (with thanks):

The problem is that when you start blending in, you start to become what you blend in with.

When you wear the mask for a long time, the mask starts to become you.

Even to the extent that it doesn't, when you begin bowing to expediency you never recover the courage you set aside. And it grows.

You may start by saying "well, if I fought this battle I'd lose to no purpose and my influence would be reduced for the next situation when I could make a difference".

But once the basic logic is admitted, you move on to "Well, I could win this battle, but I'd lose campaign contributions and influence--gotta take the long view".

Eventually you forget what difference you wanted to make, anyway. On any given issue, if all the politicians legislated and voted the way the conscience they had before they started 'blending in', the good guys would win.

There aren't enough actually evil politicians to carry the day, normally.

Evil in politics is created by a whole lot of people accepting that doing evil is the way to 'blend in' in hopes of doing some good, or at least slightly lesser evil, some time in the unspecified future when it will finally be convenient.

Start blending in and you become what you blend in with

For Progressive citizens, I borrowed these remarks from comments made elsewhere, from someone who I hope will forgive me because I forget where I found it. But it seems so true, so valuable, it was worth ... um, er ... borrowing (with thanks):

The problem is that when you start blending in, you start to become what you blend in with.

When you wear the mask for a long time, the mask starts to become you.

Even to the extent that it doesn't, when you begin bowing to expediency you never recover the courage you set aside. And it grows.

You may start by saying "well, if I fought this battle I'd lose to no purpose and my influence would be reduced for the next situation when I could make a difference".

But once the basic logic is admitted, you move on to "Well, I could win this battle, but I'd lose campaign contributions and influence--gotta take the long view".

Eventually you forget what difference you wanted to make, anyway. On any given issue, if all the politicians legislated and voted the way the conscience they had before they started 'blending in', the good guys would win.

There aren't enough actually evil politicians to carry the day, normally.

Evil in politics is created by a whole lot of people accepting that doing evil is the way to 'blend in' in hopes of doing some good, or at least slightly lesser evil, some time in the unspecified future when it will finally be convenient.

G West:

G West:

I waited THIS long for you to discuss the many socio-political levels of Scrooge McDuck ?

Hey don't forget this one !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov

Start blending in and you become what you blend in with

For Progressive citizens, I borrowed these remarks from comments made elsewhere, from someone who I hope will forgive me because I forget where I found it. But it seems so true, so valuable, it was worth ... um, er ... borrowing (with thanks):

The problem is that when you start blending in, you start to become what you blend in with.

When you wear the mask for a long time, the mask starts to become you.

Even to the extent that it doesn't, when you begin bowing to expediency you never recover the courage you set aside. And it grows.

You may start by saying "well, if I fought this battle I'd lose to no purpose and my influence would be reduced for the next situation when I could make a difference".

But once the basic logic is admitted, you move on to "Well, I could win this battle, but I'd lose campaign contributions and influence--gotta take the long view".

Eventually you forget what difference you wanted to make, anyway. On any given issue, if all the politicians legislated and voted the way the conscience they had before they started 'blending in', the good guys would win.

There aren't enough actually evil politicians to carry the day, normally.

Evil in politics is created by a whole lot of people accepting that doing evil is the way to 'blend in' in hopes of doing some good, or at least slightly lesser evil, some time in the unspecified future when it will finally be convenient.

G West:About time !

G West:

I waited THIS long for you to discuss the many socio-political levels of Scrooge McDuck ?

Hey don't forget this one !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov

Sorry for the multi posts.

Sooooory folks....damn TYEE Site claims to have no page ie " Page not found " when you try to post a comment.

page not found

Dear maestro; What I've been finding is that the 'page not found' page is bogus. When you click 'post comment', it works. It just doesn't return to the thread automatically anymore.

Try this: when you post, then find yourself on the 'page not found' page, hit the back button on your toolbar. The refresh button seems to work also.

It returns you to the thread at the same place you were, with your post showing. No need for multiple attempts.

Insightful/stimulating - Ed and Bailey

Thank you, Ed Deak and Bailey, for some of the most insightful and stimulating conversation I have ever read.

The ultimate question: "How do we stop these people from destroying what is left of our world? As BC Mary has pointed out, to do nothing is to be complicit.

Firefox

I am now accessing thetyee mainly through firefox if I want to comment and Google if I simply wish to read comments and articles. I do not get "Page Not Found" on firefox.

Sharing is Good:
I've been feeling responsible for things I had nothing to do with for years - I guess because I benefit

We've had Marx, time for Lennon

Dear Sharing. Mary is right. All these cliches come bubbling up, but they sound so airy-fairy and hippie-dip.

Until you look more closely. These power mad lie mongers require you to accept their lies, because as soon as you see through their bull, they lose you, and government IS only possible with consent of the governed.

Here's a suggestion. Lobby for social housing, and when they try to create it in such a way as to trap and isolate the poor forever, insist that the title come to rest on the occupant, who will then be able to become less poor.

Organise, or even just advocate co-op housing for welfare recipients as a way to create networks for them, small bands of victims, suddenly given something precious, a chance, and a group of people to share it, who can help each other to escape.

Or, if your interests lie elsewhere, then follow them. Speak your truth out loud. Point at evil wherever you see it and shout at it. Lend your hand when you see good that should be done. Cry b u l l s h i t when you encounter it, and never let it just go by unchallenged.

We all do what we can. It was grandmothers carrying signs that said "Where are the disappeared?" who toppled the nastiest Junta Argentina ever faced.

This is your world, and these are your days, and you can be responsible for change if you will.

How's that? Think it'll work?

Just got the "PNF" with firefox

But if you do anything - log out or go to "home" it does not seem to give multiple comment copies.

Bailey:
Yes it would work but I would have to do something beyond reading and commenting
N'est ce pas?

images

Some artists can leave you with a picture. This Burtynsky fellow does that. A friend of mine is somewhat recognized but does not go where Burtinsky goes: he illustrates the interiors of megamillionaire's yachts before they build the thing. He also wanders about the planet sketching stuff like the crumbling canneries in Alaska and the deserts of New Mexico.
The images are important to me at least and when I spend time with him I come away for a short time looking at our world with refreshed eyes.

it's Fascism, not Capitalism - Dammit

Akin to other Tyee participants, I’ve enjoyed Ed Deake’s perceptive commentaries, but have wondered re the origins of his economic views. What has now tweaked my memory is his last post, in which he directed a strictly ad hominum attack upon Marx - who was light-years ahead of his times and who is still required reading for Lefties. Although Marx’ analysis might now seem dated, it still bedevils the neocons.. Mr Deake appears to me to be a disciple of Major C H Douglas, whose theories formed the basis for the Social Credit movement. Is it just coincidental that Social Credit opposes “socialist controls and capitalist economic exploitation”, while placing ALL our economic ills at the feet of a few Bankers ?
< http://www.socialcredit.com/subpages_resources/whatis.htm >

The only way out of this bind is either State ownership or control of the banking system, both of which are Socialist measures. How else to control, for example, the privately held US Federal Reserve - Bush’s handlers - who back every American dollar?

It is not widely known today that our Western ruling elites, and their always willing sycophants among the academics, praised and supported the Fascists Hitler and Mussolini prior to WW2. Besides the large US investments in Hitler’s Germany, it was this internal support which kept the US out of the War for three years. Canada got into the War because of its Commonwealth ties to Britain, not because of its opposition to Fascicm, and the difficulty MacKenzie King had in convincing Quebec to override its ties to Vichy France was another symptom of that fact. Fascism derives its name from the Italian Fascisti, and much of its support came from the Catholic Church which has long opposed Socialistic theory.

"Fascism should rightly be called corporatism, as it is the merger of state and corporate " - Benito Mussolini

It is important to remember that to gain the support of Lefties, a major propaganda effort during WW2 times was to stress that this was a "War to eliminate Fascism". Since every Lefty knew that Fascism’s primary threat comes from a union of business and government, this hypocritical approach was seen as necessary to gain their full support.

With regard to Ed’s statement re “ a reasonably balanced system in the first 30, or so, years after WW2,” this is how I see it. 45 -60, good times; 60s to early Seventies, insurrection; early to late Seventies, buyout; late seventies to present has seen a gradual baring of the mailed fist.

The “Fabulous Fifties” were the result of the post-war retooling to satisfy a huge pent-up demand for consumer goods, creating very prosperous times. It was during this time that the anti-communist scare was raised, the 50s also being called the McCarthy era, during which everyone and anyone who had shown strong ties to or even support for Socialistic ideas were relentlessly hounded, especially unionists. Thus the pre-War threat of Leftism was contained, with Socialism still being seen as synonymous with Communism.

However, beginning in the late 50’s, consumer demand was cooling and unemployed youth were becoming common. As is usual for the US, having a war is a great way for draining away surplus youth, and so the Vietnam War (59 -75) began, which also served the traditional US interventionist aims of saving the World for Internationalist Fascism..

"In powering the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." So said President Eisenhower in his farewell address to the nation - Jan 16th 1961

And so the Sixties intervened, which was primarily a reaction against the Fascistic ideologies of the Fifties, such as the Puritanical religious conservatism imposed by censorship and the Catholic Hayes Office, for example. So to the still unaddressed plight of the American Blacks – which put the lie to the Freedoms theoretically guaranteed by the US Constitution. The 60s also saw the beginnings of today’s popular support for environmental issues. What was even worse for the neocons was that the kids correctly perceived the Vietnam War as flim-flam, and not only dodged the draft, but actually defied the State by mounting massive civil disobedience. “Power to the People” and “Eff the Fascist Pigs” were commonly heard those days, and though these epithets are purposely described as quaint in today’s press, they were VERY relevant then and remain so today.

Marx erred in thinking that since the Lumpenproletariat were incapaple of self-government, the giving over of control of Government to “selfless” bureaucrats would solve the problem.. In the end, the apparatchiks were as boneheaded and as easily bought out as any one else.

But Marx was correct in predicting that “Capitalism” would eat its young. But there again, because he was so far ahead of his times and lacking our recent understanding, he was unaware that no matter what the political system, the use of capital – aka Capitalism – is, because it is so efficient, inescapable.

Our problems today, then, derive from the Fascist’s political use of Capital to undermine our Socialist gains, which has been its long-term objective. The Fascists are alive and well today Ed, and firmly in control.

On a larger scale, what we face today is simply a replication of an age-old syndrome, the continuous seeking of control by ruling elites only for their own short-term ends, with absolutely no concern for their “subjects” or for long-term environmental and/or economic stability. Ronald Wright in his A Short History of Progress has, along with others, outlined that syndrome. Which brings me back to my previous post which posed at its conclusion the question to which - however much I admire the suggestion of John Lennon’s approach - I note no effective response was attempted, so I’ll repeat by paraphrasing….”how do we solve the Lumpenproletariat” problem?” (Which cannot be blamed on Capitalists alone)

Sharing; An effective

Sharing;

An effective method for stopping "these" people is to stop being their customer. Don't purchase their goods, consume their fossil fuels, or eat their so-called food. Simply embark on a years- or decades-long endeavor to end your partnership with them.

It's too bad the movie isn't available on DVD or VHS. (or better yet, dowloadable)

TO: Bailey, doggone etc. : Thanks

Yes you are correct.

When " PAGE NOT FOUND" occurs, clicking on " Post Comment " still allows the comment to be posted. The initial concern when it first comes up is that the comment may evaporate into cyber- space.

To : Me3

I enjoyed reading your comments. Good insight and perspectives.

A few years ago Jeremy Rifkin wrote "The End of Work" with respect to how both jobs and the work force will change. It had foreboding views and him also foreseeing negative consequences.

I also recall seeing him on a talk show and putting a positive spin on his premise ...that there will also be much leisure time, which I found rather bizarre. Where is it?

So...what does the future, often rooted in the past, actually hold?

My own views, based on experience, is perhaps the classic Pogo line

POGO: " we have met the enemy and he is us ".

Regardless of our political views and our points of reference in the political spectrum,I think people have THEMSELVES to blame. This is a democracy...designed to be a participatory democracy, but it is actually a non -participatory democracy. Who is really to blame ? Use it or lose it!

People often participate physically(show up and mark the ballot), but often do not participate spiritually or intellectually. Their vote may be kneejerk...and negative don't vote for ..they vote against, "anybody-but___."

I am a member of a Volunteer group and the "person in charge" is a failed civic candidate, ie ran and lost in the past civic election. I originally felt, OK...not unheard of that such parties lick their wounds , L-E-A-R-N and try again. However, the more I see this person,one year after the last election, and with strong suspicions and indications they will run again , I just CRINGE. They are rude, arrogant, overly emotional and worse very ignorant...and I see them groomed for a "puppet role"( by the party that had embraced them) if elected and thus being a puppet in deciding budgets amounting to $150 million + annually.

The messenger often catches all the bullets. People do not react favourably to truth, facts, etc.no matter how gently spoon fed. At times I notice this glazed look of fear and what may be interpreted as embarassment, which often transforms into silent NON -proactive numbness, and almost attack mode.

Thus the problem lies in self- induced ignorance, self -induced apathy, and whatever so-called creme rises- to- the -top in a relative sense to fill the " democratic " void. The Blind leading the Blinkered.

One of my own pet peeves is the Olympics...and many of my views were shaped by listening to an investigative reporter who was interviewed a few times on local radio. I bought one of the books he and his partner had written on the Olympics ...and had my mind opened on what the Olympics really are,or have evolved into, and its not very positive at all.

My view: Look internally for the given enemy first. Careful if one chooses to be a given messenger of sorts. Plan accordingly.

Me3.... After decades of

Me3.... After decades of historical, and later economic studies, I've left all ideologies and prophets behind, when I realized that the most beautiful ideas, religions and theories can be twisted into the weapons of enslavement and mass murder,

As have been the words of Jesus, Marx and Smith used for colonization, robbery and ethnic cleansing.

I have seen the nazis and communists at work, have been sentenced to death by the nazis and to the gulags by the communists, escaped both, which may have clouded my vision over the words of Marx. Now I can see the world heading into the same direction under the tenets of the neolib/neocon ideology, supported by the scriptures of the neoclassical economic theory.

Just about all the horror stories on these pages, from the fishfarms, to the environmental and human destruction by "wealth creating economic activities" are being taught, today, at UBC, SFU, Victoria etc, etc. and in all the world's universities as "the science of neoclassical economics".

Blaming the politicians and their owners, the corporate mafia, is waste of time until we dare to admit that our universities are brainwashing students with fraudulent, criminal theories.

Since I came on the economic lists and forums of the Net, 11 years ago, I've had many messages from students, professors and scientists who had to take economic courses for their post graduate studies saying: "We know that what we have to learn (and teach), are fraud, but must write the lies into our exam papers if we want to pass, or keep our jobs".

You should have seen the offlists postings I received from all over the world after some World Bank forums, involving thousands of economists, and interested people, all backing up my claims that neoclassical economics are the biggest fraud and crime wave in human history.

I even had an unsigned, congratulatory posting from the "Office of the Chief Economist of the World Bank", who then was
Josepy Stiglitz, already on his way out, because he couldn't put up with the crap any longer.

So, if you want to make a difference, don't bother with attacking politicians, but the professors who teach this crime wave at the intellectual level of Hitler's racial theories.

If humanity wants to save itself, we must turn to bottom up, self sufficient, physical laws based economic systems.

Yes, all this can be proven very easily, but it will take a lot of courage to stand up and say so.

Ed Deak.

More than a room with a number on the door

In regard to social housing, I was listening to Yukon/Canadian artist, Ted Harrison, the other morning on CBC radio and he noted that he had personally observed many drug addicts recover when they began to paint. He said that in painting they finally gained a measure of control and meaning over their life through the act of creation....and that they took great joy in controlling what they created. ( No doubt all the other arts, music etc. are equally restorative in their own way).

So what often becomes the tragic "warehousing" of people is not the answer...but instead an opportunity for meaning must be given....not just a place to live but a reason to want to live.

Harrison rebelled against much what he learned in art school saying it is most important to "just be yourself" in your art. I would think that element, the freedom of just being yourself, and thus the freedom from judgment or rejection while immersed in the creative act would go a long way in addressing what is largely a healing process.

More than just a room with a number on the door must be provided.

Lynn, I always looked at

Lynn, I always looked at drug and alcohol addiction as forms of temporary suicide by people who have nothing to live for.

I've been drunk only once in my life, in 1949, by accident, and stayed teetotal for 30 years. I had 2 beers and about the same glasses of wine this year, which is about average. Never tried any drugs, they scare the hell out of me. Had a shop on Powell & Victoria from 1966 to 74 and have seen those poor wretches floating around.

On the other hand, many artists have been drunks and addicts. Still, as an artist myself, I can see that living for something, or for something to say, could make a difference in the lives of at least some.

I had a former addict as an apprentice once, who sometimes had to stay for the nights in the UBC hospital, for weeks, as I wanted to give him a chance. He made a top line craftsman, had a good shop, with several journeymen, but fell into booze when the FTA and NAFTA destroyed the industry. Haven't heard from him for a year or more, hope he's OK ?

Often wondered how many went down the drain with our "wealth creating, free trade" treaties, not only in Canada, but in all other countries, especially among the poorest. Must be millions.

Ed Deak.

Scrooge McDuck

Hard to believe, more Scrooge fans. I loved those comics when I was pre-teen. Unfortuntely I don't think I'll hit the 100 foot level in the money bin any time soon.

tune-in, turn-on, drop-out

Alive and awake through the 60s and 70s, I was a draft-card-burning antiwar protester. I and many of my friends even manged to get back to nature, finding, growing and catching our own food. I felled trees and turned the logs into rough-sawn beams and lumber, setting aside some of the better pieces to become polished beams and fine finish lumber. I I used these materials to build beautiful homes at resonable prices for like-minded others - often bartering for this or that. For all we were at that time, most of us sold out - joined the system! Even if we hadn't, there were so few of us that the fascist/neoconservative monster that has been steadily asserting itself toward full authority would barely notice us now.

In the whole scheme of things, I fear that a lone family here and there opting out in favour of self-management will be no more important than a pod of orcas or a pack of wolves. We will be hanging on for our own dear lives while the monster takes what it wants; and, all the while, praying hard that not one of our clan does not fall into illness or injury. We will be the quaint folk.

What I really want to know is how do we get these fascists to lead moral/ethical lives? They are so short-sighted in their power-mongering greed. Alas, I think I shall look again to the Dali Lama for some insight. I am not seeing it in our Western reductionsist/objectivist cultures. SIG

Well, Sharing, we'have done

Well, Sharing, we'have done it and are living the good life it brought for us, in good comfort.

To make sure that what we have built won't be squandered away by our successors, we gave away our 120 acres to a hard working family who appreciate what they have and will continue, also permitting us to stay here, where we've been the happiest, forever.

Frankly, we don't care who approves, or disapproves, this present crime wave cannot last forever and then there must be examples for people to follow and survive.

Ed Deak.

SharingIsGood

"Kill them all. God will know his own."
- Arnold-Aimery (at the seige of Beziers July 1209)

gotta love you guy/girls

if we could implement the recommendations here the world would be a better place.
Especially RickW'S solution.
In the real world it seems like we are fighting a loosing battle.
The detritus (BMW steering wheels) washed up on the shore of southern England stands as an example of entrenched madness. I have a number of Morse steering systems in my shop
they are somewhat more complicated than a steering wheel.
These are worth nothing (on E bay) because they did not come from a wreck covered by international tv.

Quote:Often wondered how

Yes, Ed... no doubt millions of people's lives have been broken by this cruel system. It is almost unimaginable.

Regarding addiction and the homeless, I very much appreciate your reply. I do think people need something to live for and perhaps combined with Bailey's idea of granting title to the occupant and developing a sense of shared community... well, let's just say it would be a beginning.

Frankly, we don't care who approves, or disapproves, this present crime wave cannot last forever and then there must be examples for people to follow and survive

.

I think both you and your wife, Ed, have already become a wonderful example to many of us who post here.

It's not only bras that uplift

The last time I heard the advice so consistently advanced on this list was during converations with "Hippy" draft-dodgers during the Seventies.

They too had come to the undertanding that the best way to effect change is by example, and to avoid false leaders. I'm somewhat pleased to report that although most eventually "sold out", getting FT jobs and buying/building homes, they still became trusted and valued members of their community, simply by practicing what they preached.

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates ?

As for comics characters, one I liked was Al Capp's General Bullmoose, whose aphorisms - "What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USofA" - so greatly displeased Senator McCarthy et al.

Hippy's ?

Sorry, not going to buy into this virtuous hippy talk.

Reminds me of the old cartoon as the post Hippy epiphany slowly oozed out..." Where have all the hippies gone "? .... a business suited executive with a pony tail type walks down the sidewalk , stops for a moment, assumes some meditative position, chants , and then gets up and continues on .

The old Hippies have blended very nicely into "The System" they once condemned ...in my experience they are all doing very nicely in retirement or soon approaching retirement. They are simply leaving crumbs for the rest of us after they tasted and often gorged on " The Systems " trough.

Invite

Don't get invited to many party's, do you maestro?

Whatever you want to call

Whatever you want to call it, I tire of the tie to the hippy reference whenever the importance of social infrastructure is mentioned. If that makes me somehow a hippie-dippie chick, so be it.

While your beloved "System" continues to tragically victimize through the rampant dismantlement of social infrastructure, you fail to see that it is actually social infrastructure that creates real independence and real wealth.

And the best thing you can do in life is to learn how to be as self-dependent and as self-sufficient as possible.

Not always an easy thing to do and we all have varying degrees of success at it but worth whatever rewards received for the trying.

And that should be an opportunity within everyone's reach.

Homelessness is a symptom of a failing, obsolete "System" that values all the wrong things.

It is sheer stupidity to continue to believe in our present system. It is obsolete. You are the one hung up on the past.

Now I'll go eat my granola cereal. ;-)

Here, here!

Dear lynn; Good for you! Don't ever apologize for having high standards. Don't ever let anyone mock or belittle you out of what you know is right and true by calling you names. As if life could ever be so stupidly simplistic.

Some people will always try to pretend to be too cool to care, as if life were nothing more than fashion, as if they would never die, never have to ask themselves, 'what have I done, what have I felt, what have I stood up for while I had my days and nights of life?

Every human has the right to magnificent expectations, and the chance to insist that the world by God live up to them.

If we don't, we will just deserve whatever we get.

Hippies

I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities Maestro, since I appreciated your previous comments. I'd just like to mention in passing that I was just a little old for the 60s, still shaking off the yoke of my 40s-50s indoctrination.

Like yourself today, at that time I regarded the love and flowers philosophy as a cop-out, but some, like myself at the time, wanted to get on with living life, and so I satisfied myself with an occasional dipping my toes in the water, as they did.

An odd change in life-style stirred up the fire in my belly, which has remained since, as I suspect is also the case with Lynn.

I'd like to suggest that there are many who "saw the light" during the 60s and 70s, and have not forgotten what they learned, even while in the interim they've been far from flaming radicals.

I've just read an article which notes the growth of groups of grey-haired activists, - boomers similar to the Raging Grannies - who now have the time and the freedom to follow up on long-held beliefs.

If you are an activist and looking for help, Maestro, forget the finger-pointing and look for ways to mobilise these people, for they have the money, the contacts, and the experience to help you effect positive change. They - not you - are the people Harper and Gordo really fear.

And if you're looking fpr blamees, here's some food for thought:

PEJ News - Sir Alex Fraser Tyler -
The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance;
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to complacency;
from complaceny to apathy;
from apathy to dependence;
from dependency back again into bondage.

- Sir Alex Fraser Tyler (1742-1813)
Scottish jurist and historian

Hippy Inc.

Yes, I figured that previous Hippy comment may get "some" response.

clubofrome,....parties ? what's the connection...? sorry haven't RSVP'd your invite...will decline in the short term...too busy accepting invites to other social gatherings.

Back to " Hippies " .
Well let's just say I took a lot of un-offical notes living through the so-called HIPPY era and often reflect back on it. Yes, the hippy movement was somewhat pioneering as far as social movements...and the so-called reasons were many.

However the old saying about History often repeats itself , or doomed to repeat it if not learn from it...etc. still rings true.

Again....WHERE have all the Hippies gone ? I haven't seen one since 1980's...ie a Prof , a great person, who was from U of Berkeley and had long hair, bohemian type of shirt he wore to almost every class , goatee and close to 50 at the time. We talked about the 1960's era and how he got caught up the midst of the movement while attending Berkeley.

An ex -classmate mentioned he had seen him years later and mentioned he seemed a bit bitter. Regardless, most hippies seem to have blended into society seemlessly without a whimper.

All the rest, it seems( and I also have family members that were also of that era), are doing very nicely and certainly don't seem to be into the old hippy activism. Often, more into retiring early and keeping an eye on their investments.

What happened...someone stop them? ...or no , more like I said earlier...most of them have dug into the same societal trough they once criticized.

Or...Perhaps they came to an epiphany that their views, in the Big Picture were rather disjointed and unsustainable. They had a short shelf life within the spectrum of history.

Again where are the hippies ???...If it wasn't for old news clips etc... you'd never know they even existed. Where is the " Church of hippiedom" ,the pews and the collection plate ? In hindsight, I think the Hippy movement takes far more credit for things that may have happened ultimately, and inevitably , and that perhaps the hippy movement simply masked the start of a rather Uni-church of " Self " . Of course, their will be the usual denial as they try to cryogenically preserve themselves...

The church of self was "created" then "evolved" into a rather gluttonous head -first dive into the societal trough, maybe moreseo than if the church of the Hippy movement was never "created" in the first place.

Even the ole "piss and vinegar" enviro etc. types ie Suzuki, Greenpeace etc. have seguayed into the same old corporate culture...I guess long hair, half -stoned, wearing thongs in the winter and foaming at the mouth wide eyed " Hey man " rhetoric tends to scare little old ladies.

In other words,with respect to the Hippy movement, the start and the finish, in further hindsight, were very predictable.

Me3...

Me3

Thanks for the Sir Alex Fraser Tyler QUOTE

How true, and also historically reflective of the relatively short- shelf life of the world's so-called "great civilizations".

It seems that the transition occurs somewhere in between the " courage -to- liberty - to- abundance " evolution .... and BEFORE the selfishness point starts to kick in...ie it peaks at THAT point and then it starts to go downhill.

In the end, things simply cycle,( ie Tylers's quote implies a cycle of FROM bondage at the start BACK to bondage in the end...simply repeats ) and historically ...." ie history repeats itself ".... so many times its basically a RE-cycle.

King Kanute may have had good intentions, but maybe he should have compared notes with peers elsewhere. Talk is cheap and getting cheaper.

The so-called solution , in theory, is to avoid the cyclical repetition ,correct ?.... Or perhaps this RE-cyclical pattern is simply Unavoidable, its an inherent flaw in our Human existance.

Maybe Sir Tylers quote is simply acknowledging this reality. That's not meant to even remotely be defeatist, BUT it's a starting point towards any rational ,relevant, and more importantly, NON-ideological solutions.