Justin Trudeau has already

Justin Trudeau has already said no a number of times. The liberals want it all for themselves. Which is foolish but..........

Seriously a Liberal - Conservative 'coalition' makes more sense than a Liberal - NDP one. Maybe under Dion or Trudeau sr the Lib-NDP would make sense but not with the modern liberals who are no longer a centrist party but a con light party similar to what the old PC party was before McKay stabbed Orchard in the back and went to serve Harper.

With the 30 new ridings for next election in Ontario, Alberta and BC I would wager almost all of them too will go to Harper and add that to a vote split between Lib and NDP in Quebec and Ontario we are stuck with Harper again..Even my riding has been gerry rigged to help the cons by adding a pro con area to the riding, same with Burnaby where they added the pro con part of North Van for some reason. So the NDP will lose those two seats while the cons pick them up. There are probably more gerry rigged ridings as well.

The NDP is not responsible for Harper.

The Liberals could have initiated electoral reform at any point prior to 2006 if they had wanted. It was both the right thing, and within their power. They didn't, because they were never interested in an actually representative voting system and preferred to blackmail small-L voters into voting for them rather than do anything for them. Their interest in electoral reform now, such as it is, just happens to coincide with their reduction to 3rd-party status.

The Liberals, in 2008, could have been a part of the coalition and done the right thing then, if they had wanted to stand up for anything then. It was the right thing, and within their power. They didn't. The knives went into Dion and the Liberals let Harper continue his merry way. And here we are.

And I'm not even going to begin to compare the policies of the Liberals that the NDP helped shape policy with decades ago to the Liberals who called the shots in the Chretien-Martin years.

I'm all for electoral co-operation. But let's not have any doubt about where the responsibility for today's grotesque political situation really lies. It's not with the NDP. Talk about blaming the victims.

As for the notion that "the media has actually been pretty good at exposing the outrages of the Harper government," that's simply risible. This is the same media that almost universally endorsed Harper down the line after those outrages. Tony Clement sprinkles $50 million around his riding, and they spend 5 times more space on Bev Oda's $16 glass of orange juice. Writing that Harper did something is not the equivalent of giving it the appropriate critical emphasis.

we already have a 3-party Bay St coalition ....

Murray, I am surprised to see you so unaware of what is going on these days with the big spectacle. Look around Canada - if you take away party labels, you could not tell one party from another in any of the 9 non-Quebec provinces for the last 30 years - they **all** govern from Bay St once elected, no exceptions. A 'coalition' between tweedledee and tweedle-ndp would not be any different - lots of good pre-election talk, all hyped by the mainstream media as 'big differences wow!!!!' - then once any of them are elected, morphing into the Big Bay St Boss (remember Paul Martin taking social spending back to the 50s levels, or Chretien's about face signing NAFTA?). THe NDP are not 'left' anymore, they are fighting for center-right with the Libs - better no doubt to have rulers who believe in some 'noblesse oblige' as the rulers than the f**-you losers far-right republicans currently masquerading as the Cons in Canada - but we really do need some people in 'our' government whose first priority is 'we the people' rather than the latest directives from Command Central in Bay St. What Happened http://www.rudemacedon.ca/what-happened.html

Harper could & should have been ousted years ago

I largely blame Ignatieff for the fact Harper's gang have been in power so long & now have a majority. It was Ig who killed the original Dion-Layton coalition plan. In the years that followed, Ig mostly acted as Harper's greatest enabler & ally in Parliament by propping up Tories' paltry plurality minority for years. The longer Ig did so, the more Canadians got used to Harper as PM, & the weaker the Libs looked to voters. This culminated in the NDP orange crush surge which put the Libs in 3rd place & gave Harper his majority, destroying all chance of a Lib-NDP or NDP-Lib coalition. Thanks Ig.

Presumably, Libs & NDP may be open to cooperating after an election - if Tories can be held to minority of seats. Hall-Findlay suggested this during the Lib leadership debates. A potential big problem with this is if the NDP wins more seats than the Libs, will Trudeau & Co., as former Natural Governing Party, be too proud to
agree to be junior partners in a NDP-Lib coalition, & thus allow Harper's gang to continue in power indefinitely? The Opposition, especially Liberals, are as much to blame for Tory power abuses as is Harper himself. Harper couldn't have done it without their help. Sadly, they may continue enabling Harper's abuses for years to come.

What do you stand FOR?

Murray has a history of ragging on the Reform Party in general and Harper in particular. Dobbin didn't like their policies.

So it's passing strange that he'd advocate voting for a Green-Liberal- NDP unholy alliance. (the Gree-dem-lib Party?)

How could they possibly govern? Environment, natural resource development, foreign affairs and defence -- what would we get?

C'mon Murray! I know you're against Harper, but what are you FOR that could be delivered by the Gree-dem-libs?

BC should secede

We couldn't do any worse on our own.

Very flattering drawing of

Very flattering drawing of Harper. The man is a visible, megalomaniac mental case and his support will collapse.

The problem with politicians is that although they claim to serve the "public good" in reality they try to serve their own silly ambitions.

The NDP never had anybody with any idea about communications and the psychological motivations behind people's voting patterns.
The present high numbers of the Party were not achieved by Layton, or any NDP policy promises, but because people feel subconsciously that there's something very badly wrong and are looking for answers....and they didn't and still don't get any , either from the NDP, or anybody.

The present promises of the NDP of "no negative advertising" is plain stupid. So called "positive" advertising, or policies, are just more political promises and BS, people are sick and tired of.

You can't promise to change things, without saying what changes are necessary, what is going wrong, what the consequences are and why ?

Which in the minds of the innocent faithful means "negative advertising" ????

In any case, if Justin Trudeau gets elected by the Liberals, he may be a nice guy, but very lightweight who won't pull the party out of the hole.

If the NDP had any positive knowledge of the psychological potentials, they could make the present Idle No More movement not only covering FN, but joining with them to cover overall, general issues facing everybody and wrecking the country by a government that looks like escapees from some mental institution.

But that would be "negative advertising" and we can't have it ????

Ed Deak.

directed ballot and Jack the Knife.

This obsession of left wing activists with the failed concept of proportional representation is what leads to failure of electoral reform over and over again.

Australia and all political parties since time immemorial use a form of the directed ballot to select leaders and representatives. Even Trudeau supports it. Simple and successful why bother with proportional rep - the party insiders dream.

Some reasons our current extreme far out ultra right wing government got elected:

a) Big Oil pays the mainstream press to act as a neofascist 24/7 cheerleading team. Free advertising saves the Party a lot of money. That needs to be stopped in any post election reform.

b) Jack Layton sold out his country, trading for opposition leader status joining the neofascist team in a backroom deal coordinating knife in the back attacks on the stunned Iggy.

c) Trying to get the 70% of the population that vote the progressive ticket to cooperate with each other is like trying to herd cats. Canada's neofascist's like all of their kind have no problem goosestepping in lockstep.

Our far right extreme ultra right wing whacks took Canada's economy from a big surplus and best in the world, to the middle of the pack at best economy and only there because of resource revenue. Gave away a $100B in tax breaks alone to Big Corp's as a reward for their support, that they promptly stuck in their Swiss bank accounts.

Destroyed Canada's best in the world nuclear industry for religious reasons while subsidizing supporters at Big Oil to $billions in worthless ethanol and carbon capture experiments.

In fact most of government policies come straight from Harper's church's dogma and his spiritual mentor Dr. Tim La Haye. Reading Dr Timmy's Left Behind series of books is reading our the neoFascist Party's policy manual.

LEST WE FORGET!

Heir Harper drilled it into us over and over, during the last election that a coalition or even a minority government is a very bad thing.

Do we still believe that?

The only "honest" government is a minority or a coalition government. Otherwise we get what we deserve, a party that runs a government to the party's advantage, not the peoples advantage.

Look to Finland where a long history of coalition governments has resulted in a country that is a good place for people to live. Finland's governments may hurt the feelings of the corporate culture but is that not okay? Last time I checked corporations don't have feelings anyway and we all know they have no conscience.

Things we can do

Of course, Libs and NDP will not agree to either a merger or joint nomination meetings. But that does not mean that there should not be talks between Liberals and New Democrats every where. THere are other options. One is for Liberals to recognize what they should have seen coming when Chretien was costing on the split vote--that some day the shoe would be on the other foot. THey should commit to electoral reform as strongly as the Greens and NDP have done. Another thing is to give particular constituencies permission to back a common independnet candidate endorsed by all progressive parties. This would not require suboridinating the NDP to the LIberals or vice-versa--for example, this is why Mark Crawford supported Nathan Cullen for NDP leader in 2011-2012--with an eye to NDP and Liberals both backing Lynda Price (popular & effective local FIrst nations chief, famous hockey mom).

A third thing that progressives who are not candidates or strongpartisans can do is try to organize an independent COmmittee of Progressive Voters to make recommendations to voters.

A fourth thing that candidates can do is agree to stand for just one term--in order to give the other party an opportunity to field candidates in the following election. That might suit some potential candidates who do not envisage long-term careers ( or who do not need a parliamentary pension).

In short, there are plenty of things that can be done short of merger, and I wish there was more dialogue between the three parties about these options.

The idea that mergers can't work

is ably refuted by Harper himself. The rift in the right may not have been completely healed by Harper, but the new party discipline he installed when the Conservative Party was formed has been satisfying enough to make differences within more unpalatable than losing power.

Frank Lee's comments, above, are useful, as well.

Sitting around blaming past leaders for "knifing Iggy" or attacking previous Liberal leaders, allowing Harper to slide up the middle by hold some truth in retrospect, but are largely irrelevant to how we go forward.

Ed, I think you're way to confident regarding Harper's imminent demise (though your assessment of his psychology seems accurate enough).

Note that Harper rarely personally attacks opponents. He has plenty of underlings and corporate media to do that for him, allowing him to remain cool and magisterial in public, a media strategy McLuhan would have approved of. I'd be surprised if many viewers link Conservative attack ads to Harper himself.

Political parties & leaders conditionned to bicker

The *only* way out of the conundrum is a grassroot movement (IdleNoMore affiliated?) in which citizens commit to vote for the candidate of the party that would have won (or won) if the vote had not split. How is that for political party leader "pressure"?

It's like a driving lesson

Many of the comments display the diversity of beliefs in how we managed to get into the political position we are in.

What it reminds me of is one of my earliest lessons in driving.

After going into a slide a person wants to keep their eyes on the direction you want to go not the direction of the slide.

Key word 'temporary'

As it happens, however, an alternative has emerged that has found significant support in all three parties. It is to forge a purely temporary alliance, a one-time electoral pact. Party riding associations would agree to run a single candidate against the Conservatives, on a platform with essentially one plank: electoral reform. Were they to win they would govern just long enough to reform the electoral system, then dissolve Parliament and call fresh elections. (quote from Andrew Coyne article)

...and when you're in a

...and when you're in a slide, or even when you're stuck in snow, you don't step on the gas to make your driving wheels spin, that will make the slide and the being stuck even worse.

Harper is a psychopath, who is making more and more mistakes every day. The whole world is begininng to wake up to his kind, with unrest brewing all over.

If we want to change a system, the first thing to do is to explain in detail why the present system is wrong, so that people understand and start thinking. Without such detailed analysis, and explanation, any wishes for change are only the silly spinning of wheels.

Ed Deak.

A Qc view of the world assuming it still matters

A Libs/NDP coalition ignores the fact that the Bloc should be left unchallenged in these ridings in which it beat the Cons last time around. Challenging the Bloc with NDPs (or Libs) in ridings under the cover of "saving Canada against evil" where the Conservatives have a chance is not particularly clever in my books. Got to know where evil really lies on this one. Bloc is hurting, no need to crush it furthermore.

Wake up!

Most progressives support changing our voting system to proportional representation. When and if that happens, the Bay Streets, the social democrats, the greenies, and all sorts of others with widely different views will be sitting around the "table" trying to make a go of it. Members of each party will hang on to their ideology, to their partisan stuff, but if they want to make government work, they'll need to cut deals, to collaborate, to co-operate. In the absence of pro rep, the only way to make this work is to find a way to co-operate before the election. It might bring strange bedfellows together but get over it! It's not about casting your principles aside; it's about working together to get the best possible deal for the people. Slowly, a lot of brave people are starting to see the light -- Stephan Dion, Nathan Cullen, Joyce Murray and now Mr Dobbin. Great article.

Seeing the light Alan D?

Mr. Dobbin and *many* others have said exactly that for many years now. What is really so different this time around??? The same actions produce the same result, good grief. PMSH is absolutely delighted!

Democracy does not exist

The truth is that true democracy does not exist anymore so all this talk about which party to vote for is a moot point. In a true democracy voters get to vote for the person who will actually go to Ottawa after listening to and understanding what his/her constituents want and need and then vote accordingly. What we have now are politicians who take polls, see what the popular needs and wants are, then say the political correct things to get him/her elected. Once elected that person is under the party system where they cannot articulate their constituents demands or vote for them. The party whip demands they vote in favor of the party line. Worse yet is the party line is decided by the leader and the back room strategists based on previous agreements with big business interests. History proves this to be true on the federal and provincial levels. Politics is a game of lies and deceit and it's not going to change in the near future now that most of the money is controlled by the 1% who in turn control the politicians. That used to be considered criminal behaviour but now it's accepted politics.

Messaging will be a key challenge

One of the most stupefying aspects of the Dion/Layton attempt at a coalition was how Stephen Harper and the msm were able to actually convince people that a coalition was somehow anti-democratic. So many Liberals and New democrats also took the bait that "coalition" became a dirty word.

I fear that, like the gun registry issue, entrenched presumptions could carry the political day regardless of the facts.

For this reason, approaching this issue and communicating it effectively will be both challenging and key.

One potential approach might be to focus more on the interest ("Restore Parliamentary Democracy!") than on the position ("Support a Coalition!"). After all, almost everyone can agree with the idea of strengthening and restoring parliamentary democracy. This also accurately incorporates the nature of the true problem which is the current party/political imbalance and Stephen Harper's autocratic approach to governance vis a vis his own caucus as well as parliament in general.

While details will be difficult, the real communications challenge will be to move the idea forward within a framework that a larger number of people will support.

Approaching any pre-election cooperation as part of a larger "restoring parliamentary democracy" framework could be a key if we want to prevent Harper and the MSM (and the blind partisans on all sides) from again convincing the majority that challenges to autocracy are somehow undemocratic.

Two other things:

(1) Ed Deak - While I often agree with Mr. Deak's posts, I have to mildly disagree with his comments regarding the NDP's recent decision to focus on some positive messaging. During the Carole James years the NDP's policy was to say that everything the other party did was bad (whether correct or not). This undermined trust in the NDP as well as in the Liberals. Although I would agree that being positive all the time is as blinding as being negative all the time, I think the NDP's decision to be a bit more officially positive is not a bad thing.

(2) Joyce Murray - In response to a comment above, I can confirm that she definitely does have some progressive credentials. She lived for years as a hardcore hippie in the Kootenays. She and her husband did build up their tree-planting company to become the biggest in the country (Brinkman), but it has remained relatively progressive by industry standards. Her son Baba Brinkman's name as well as his rap videos (available on youtube) suggest neither a conservative upbringing nor frame of mind.

In #Ottawapiskat

In #Ottawapiskat, the tribe lowly members all feel powerless and disengaged #IdleNoMore

Amor....If we want to be

Amor....If we want to be positive we have to point out the mistakes, or the crimes committed against us.

I don't think the cops, or the prosecution lawyers in our courts are negative when they list the crimes of the accused.

This is exactly where coalition and cooperation should and can work in a democracy, because it prevents anybody from becoming dictators for their term of office.

If there's one thing I have learned in my rather long and very active life, it is to listen to little kids exactly with the same attention as I would to top professionals, when they ask why I'm doing certain things a certain way?

It saved me a lot of problems and even my neck a few times.

Only nutcases are right all the time, because they forgot the meanings of the words "why" and "because".

The teaching method of Socrates was the use of questions, instead of telling people what to think, and then allowing them to come to their own rational answers, instead of telling them what to do .

Probably that's why the 1% of his day had to force him to drink hemlock.

Ed Deak.

Merger? Maybe, but coalition is more likely

What's it gonna take to get pro-rep? More than we ever have, I hope. Wish people would stop talking about the "party system" 'cause there's no such system in parliament (what there is: Members who forget they're indebted to the voters who put them there, not the party which paid for their campaign.) Ask yourself: did the NDP have to cut a deal with the Liberals to take Quebec? Nope. Will the Liberal resurgence come at the expense of the NDP? Probably not...not in BC, that's for sure. Here the NDP will whip Conservatives all by themselves.

As soon as the Liberals put their civil war behind them by electing a legitimate leader (like Ignatieff wasn't), their seat count will improve next time out, guaranteed no matter who is leader. Conservatives in BC are going to get thrashed by the NDP. That's the only kind of "cooperation" we need to kill Harper's majority. I for one wouldn't be surprised if the Conservative brand spoils widely enough to cost Harper even a minority (an NDP minority resulting...that's when the Liberals cooperate, not before with vote-swapping and candidates abandoning agreed turf.)

Finally: Green supporters have to realize they in effect support neo-right regimes antithetical to their own environmental ethos by splitting the progressive vote. Their numbers are dwindling but are pivotal in close ridings, of which they'll be many. Many Greens are erstwhile NDRers who though for a while there was another way to be represented. I'm hoping most of them will return after seeing the NDP become the Official Opposition although I suspect some will be heartened by Elizabeth May's win (which only happened by concentrating Green force, money from lesser ridings and the parachuted leader herself into the most promising riding.) If those Green diehards aren't going to maintain Ms May's seat by voting Green in other ridings.

this movement must

come from the grassroots. It cannot be dictated to Canadians from the leaders of the parties. 62% of voters vote for their party and if you take away that choice, you may get less at the ballot box than now.
The only way is to do the hard work on the ground, educate voters and let them decide who has the best chance of beating a Harper CON.

Two degrees from CO2 already in the pipeline

Murray—“two self-interested parties allowing a Harper minority to continue its destruction of the country because they haven't got the integrity or the guts to put the country first.” Amor de Cosmos said "Messaging will be key" [add—opposition have workshop together--on “framing”—unite with power!]
I S IT URGENT? Oct 30/12-- Science journalist David Roberts “said it all”—his tweet record during Sandy David Roberts@drgrist
Realtalk: The oceans will continue to rise for at least 50 years no matter what we do. We can only affect the latter half of century.///There's nothing Obama (or Buh, Clinton, Bush, or Reagan) could have done to prevent Sandy. Climate don't work that way. Big time lags.///The mega-hurricanes that we CAN prevent are the ones that will bedevil our children in the latter third of this century///The best we can do for ourselves and those alive in the next 50 years is enhance the resilience of our communities & infrastructure.///Luckily, distributed renewable energy accomplishes both: reduces carbon emissions & enhances resilience. A two-fer! Let's do it...” http://grist.org/climate-energy/hawks-vs-scolds-how-reverse-tribalism-affects-climate-communication/
Laws of chemistry/physics are implacable BUT the opposition CAN negotiate co-operation. Together defeat Harper --- swear to implement PR— save habitable earth.
Elizabeth May is transparent about cooperation, carbon pricing and BIG TIME LAG in effects from CO2. An NDPer told me Greens are too small to make a difference. An arrogant attitude disguised as strategy and made to lose not only democracy but HABITABLE earth. Remember the valiant effort by “1calgarycentre” to facilitate cooperation in by-election?
Oct 5/12-- I had written to ALL opposition: I'm a member of the NDP...wrote to the Greens ...offering my support for Chris Turner.... Fighting to the death partisan politics is puny and totally insufficient for the challenge we face...you must know that...in the face of unequivocal EVIDENCE...Next methane starts bubbling....
Politicians and citizens could choose to be ‘comrades-in-arms’--for our children—speaking with ONE voice on essentials—for the slim chance of saving their habitable earth.
If an asteroid was approaching, you'd sure find a way to cooperate....global warming IS a slow and certain asteroid...happening faster than science predicted.
The TIME LAG in effects from CO2 needs to be explained to Canadians because it means we are almost certain to reach 2 degrees [because of CO2 already in the pipeline]......there are solutions and models to try-- for the slim chance we have left. Germany fed solar into the grid -- EQUAL to TWENTY nuclear power stations on May 26/12. Nature is not waiting for majorities or PR-- and neither am I.

democratic cliff

How nice it would be if only we had a minority government again, aaahh.....
All that the cons are unleashing on canada will make canadians even more confused, as we can't even comprehend that our votes enabled unprecidented change to "democracy" as we remember it. Like many I ask myself how can this be?
I too believe the libs and ndp are in denial.
Simple solution , form a coalition and rid canada of this scourge! Doesn't seem like rocket science at all.
Sick of this crap, GET ON WITH IT!!!!

grass roots Coalition of Progressive Democratic Voters

THese organizations--which to some extent already exist--should try to get fence-sitting and vote-splitting groups to get of the fence and endorse particular candidates in particular ridings. SOme Liberal voters were persuaded to vote for Linda DUnca this way in previous Tory riding of Edmonton-Strathcona.

Not much point in blaming the

Not much point in blaming the politicians of any hue, without going after the university economics departments, where the criminal idiocy of the neoclassical monetary theory originates and they all wave it around like some battle flags.

If that's not changed, the world can kiss its pathetic ass goodbye.

The biggest killers in history have not been the rulers, but the religions and ideologies they forced on others. Now called "wealth creation"

Ed Deak.

think outside of the box!

If you look at the divorce rates here, it is no wonder that people are scared of any kind of mutual agreement.

The simple fact is that most succesfull countries manage to work with minority governement.

Some how we expect that a country can shift direction every time a new government is elected, and every time we do get a majority in power everybody starts to bitch anyway.

Nothing much can be changed in one term, but if several parties share the power, they simply need to dialogue and find solutions.

Why not let them work for their wages? maybe nothing will go as the platform directed, but if we get a bit from every party in that coalition, then we all may be better off!

Reply to Silthas

Absolutely the Liberals could have instituted PR when they had the chance. They commissioned the Law Reform Commission report which laid out the why's and how's of PR and they nothing about it. But neither has any of the 7 NDP provincial governments when they had the opportunity, even more disillusioning as PR is NDP party policy. Amazing as it may seem now SH once advocated PR. So to be fair, the joy of power does seem to change all office holders no matter what their colour.

mediocrity

Why are Canadians wed to their dysfunctional and mediocre electoral system? Why do they permit "minority governments" when every other parliamentary system, even in UK, promote coalitions? Why do Canadians tolerate 39.6% of voters electing a government with no checks on its power? Why are they passively watching a martinet PM hand the country's resources over to China? Sorry, back to hockey and beer.

Systemic enablement

I have read a few articles along this theme and the prospect of a Harper re-election scares the stuffing out of me. Clearly our system is out of whack and getting worse as witnessed by a 25% majority gov.

Robin Mathews has written an article dealing with his perceived acts of appeasement toward Harper by Shawn Atleo. NOt sure that I would agree, but it was an interesting perspective that has become relevant to our broken parliamentary/ party system.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2013/01/shawn-atleo-and-neville-chamberlain.html

It got me thinking about who has the balls to stand up to Harpo and articulate the discontent of the real majority.

IMO it is Elizabeth May. (Insert ironic chortle here) Ms. May has been calling out this government consistently with intelligence and clarity. As MP of the year, she would appear to me, to be the logical choice to lead a coalition. And frankly, a coalition seems like the only electoral option for removing the current subPrime Minister.

Even though an election is way too far away for this to seem like an overly effective measure, it seems as though a public statement of intent to form a coalition may be our last chance to check the increasing discontent of so many CDNS. We all need something positive to develop before the next omnibus bill is tabled or the green light is given to FIPA/ CETA.

no way to Elizabeth May Feverish

If there is going to be someone to lead an attempt to sell this coalition idea, it needs to come from someone that is not a party leader. May has her own internal party problems and will try and influence decisions to benefit the Greens. I don't trust her.

Ed Deak

I partially agree yet still disagree. The people at fault are the voters (especially the voters who don't vote). Governments are elected and, if voters used their heads, the best representative would be elected. However, I do agree that the coddled academics that fill children's and politician's minds with silly ideas are partly at fault.

Boomers to X

If politics is in any way similar to blue collar workforce there is a cronic shortage of experience and knowledge out there. This is as a direct result of boomers leaving the workforce. The up and comers will need time to adjust to their newfound responsibilities. Unfortunately we will all hav

Who has the balls to articulate our discontent to Harpo?

He doesn't care. Nothing that anyone says has any meaning , interest or concern to him. Absolutely NOTHING. There will be no dialogue, there will be no compromise, he will only be reached by naked brute force applied utterly mercilessly. Until we are in a position to use such overwhelming force, he will continue to twist the knife. We are at total war here, failure to grasp that assures the victory of evil.

Sask.... The colonizations,

Sask.... The colonizations, the destruction of countries and the mass murder and enslavement of peoples in the past have always been licenced by religions in the past and in many parts, in the present. And I have spent a lifetime on this.

E.G. Pope Alexander Vl gave and divided South America between Spain and Portugal in the Treaty of Tordesillas on Sept.25,1493. resulting in and licencing the mass murder and enslavement of millions.

Ideologies, economic theories and our present monetary system enslaving the world with imaginary figures, is a pseudo religion sold to politicians and the public by the monetary priesthood of so called "economists".

We must have money for genuine trade and exchanges, but the present system is a planned system is designed as a licenced crime wave to collectivize, impoverish and enslave.

If the politicians, and the would be rulers, are not licenced by certain forms of faiths, now called ideologies, their actions become crimes.

When an executive of a very profitable company takes home 400 times the wages of the workers, while planning to fire more t increase profits, that's a simple legalized theft.

Ed Deak.

No opposition party will beat

No opposition party will beat the tories until they unite behind electoral reform

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/25/andrew-coyne-no-opposition-party-is-going-to-beat-the-tories-until-they-united-behind-electoral-reform/

No Harper does not care

... but that makes no difference because the majority needs to be inspired, not Harper. I don't think anyone wants physical violence to be the new political statement in Canada, though it may come to that. A peaceful means is much preferred, I'm certain. I disagree that we are totally at war here Hakuin, but we are in a $h!t fight.

Clearly we will have many differing ideas on who should be PM (many agree who should not) but it will be essential to know who is proposed prior to an election. Not quite sure how EM as PM would unfairly move a coalition government to benefit the Greens, but we are all speculators here aren't we?

Sadly Ed I think Andrew coyne may be correct

What it will take, however, is more than grassroots agitation. The tradition in this country is that change does NOT come from below except in the sense that reform often starts at the provincial, and not the federal level. In fact, virtually all real change in this country's history has come about through a parliamentary initiative or reform in a province.of one kind or another.

Just as universal single payer health care began in Saskatchewan under Tommy Douglas it may well be that electoral reform will begin at the provincial level.

Has anyone stopped to ponder.......

.....that people in the so-called "1st World" are getting tired of demoncracy? In more and more countries, dictatorial parties are emerging, whether they be right-wing, left-wing, or whatnot. Harper is just another in a growing list of petty tyrants.

This movement gives substance to "You don't what you've got 'til it's gone".

Voter Suppression

Recent pieces by Kia Nagata, Murray Dobbin, Duncan Cameron, and Gerry Caplan all suggest that the only way to defeat Harper is to unite progressives. They are, however, all crude attempts to convince the mice to support the Liberal Bay Street white cats over Harper's Bay Street black cats. There is nothing progressive about Christy Clark Liberals, anti-labour Ontario Liberals, or Martin-Chrétien corporate Liberals. Canadians are getting wiser about finding an iron fist in the Liberal velvet glove. The New Democratic Party should continue to define itself as a modern social justice party and solidify the growing number of Canadians open to social democracy. Suggestions about strategic voting and electoral cooperation are naive at best and most likely disingenuous. This path will ensure a continuation of neoliberalism because it is a form of voter suppression that reduces or blurs choices. Social democracy in Northern Europe has offered citizens a stronger economy, a fairer social structure and a cleaner environment. We can have the same in Canada if we have a serious conversation about social and economic policies and enough people get behind the NDP.

Rick....The "1st world" and

Rick....The "1st world" and generally the whole world, has no choice but to become a dictatorship under the presently ruling neoclassical theory that demands and reports "growth" of the fraudulent GDP, while millions starve and are homeless.

The theory can not survive as a real democracy, but only as a phony democracy, similar to the "People's Democracies" the Soviets and satellites used to call themselves, controlled by a ruling elite.

Things were moving along quite well, until this Friedmanite crime wave was forced on the Earth by the conspiracy of big business.

Yes, I wrote "conspiracy" and not a "conspiracy theory".

Ed Deak.

Two things

Have always bothered me about the Harper government:
1. He didn't win the election fairly. You can say what you like, but the results are still not in on the robo-calls scandal. Nobody but the Conservative government stood to gain from those calls which may have changed the election results. So is this government really an elected governemt?
2. The omnibus bills which hide changes in Canada deep in huge budget bills which were never made to see the light of day. No other government has ever done that.

At least the Natives realize that these hidden terms in hidden bills will change the way we live. One could go so far as to say it is dishonest. Bring in a budget bill to change the way we live buried in four or five hundred pages of horseshit? From a government which many would say wasn't even elected fairly? Come on.

Murry, this is getting tiresome

Your "Johnny One-note" message was already tiresome the last three times. We are not "at war" for social democracy no matter what Hakuin says. Being "at war" involves everyone giving up their principles in order to accomplish a goal which is generally anything but noble. In this case, it's exceptionally ignoble - seeking power simply because you're agin' t'other guy is fraught with complications and tradeoffs that often hurt worse than the opposition. WW2 is the best-studied lesson in that, for those who know their history, but every single year you can find this lesson being repeated somewhere around the world, - Aceh, Brazil, Sudan, Nepal, Azerbaijan, Russia, France, USA....

Anything Harpo does can be reversed by the first government that's elected to counter his mismanagement. Times are hard now - the easy money's gone, and in times like these, ordinary people - hard-of-thinking people - fall prey to the comfortable message of "What's mine is mine" and vote for any government who'll speak to that. Whose message will comfort a voter like that?

Selling our individual souls to conformity is absolutely the worst thing I can think of doing in a political market like this. Joyce Murray may be a progressive by I absolutely do not see eye-to-eye with the aims and principles of the party she's selected to represent her interests.

Though Mulcair does not speak for me at all - he speaks a vision of conflict and division that's devoid of the kind of flexible thinking I was hearing from Jack Layton - in general I see the NDP's policy as closer to my own interest.

The Greens are still out in la-la land with policies so mis-matched and bizarre and contrived that there's no way I could ever find common cause with them. When they, on the one hand call for deficit cutting, yet promise to sustain EI and pensions, and yet promise to create superfunds to clean up the mess that business leaves, while boosting business by supporting it in "making things", it's clear to me that these people have smoked entirely too much weed to be trusted with their hand on the tiller of government. They need decades more seasoning before I'd allow them to be in charge of more than one portfolio in a coalition government.

Let Harper do his worst. At some point, ordinary people will realize the comfort of security they're seeking won't be found, especially in Harper's corporate arms, and Harper will find his head on a pike. Then we can get back to restoring the best functions of this social democracy of ours, and leaving the dross and waste behind.

But to do battle with gravity by compromising all one's principles is the dumbest thing I could imagine doing.

I trust we've heard the last word from you on this topic. It's beyond tiresome and bordering on maudlin.

Harper is like the guy that

Harper is like the guy that is hoarding the last of the chocolate for himself and has water dribbling down his chin when he gorges himself on the communal canteen, while the rest of the survivors are trying to get by on some dry crusts of bread and rain drops.

Divide and Conquer: Successful

That's what I think is on the file folder shared by the the Fraser Institute and the Conservative communications people, as they shake hands and chortle about how they've painted the majority of voters into a corner.

I thought it was really, for lack of a better English word - shameful, on election night, at the N.D.P. victory celebration.
Some partisan N.D.P. guy pointed out Stephane Dion in the crowd, who was there as an observer, and smirked and gloated at the microphone about how now the Liberals were now the last place schmucks.
I thought Stephane deserved better.

I think Tom Mulcair, and Justin and the gang can dream on.
At least on the surface, it seems they think everything is the same as it used to be.
It isn't!
Canadians might be gentle and sweet people who love peacekeeping and sitting on a big picket fence, being passively nice while hoping for the best.

Some politicians believe these Canadians dream of a world where people will surely tire of Stephen H. and will say, "Gosh, maybe it's the N.D.P.'s turn," and the people in orange will sweetly put everything right as Tommy Douglas reaches down from the clouds and shakes Tom's hand like Rocket Richard on the last page of "The Hockey Sweater".

Other politicians believe Canadians dream of a world where Justin Trudeau, since he's the new edition saviour as Iggy didn't for some-reason-sorta gel, will arise Justin Bieber-like from the crowd, and bring balance to the Force so all will be super swell and we can wake up from the Steve H. dream and feel the world is right again.

Meanwhile, in the real world, institutions are completely dismantled in parliament-fingering bills the size of a phone book, managed with precision by a group of people completely unburdened by a conscience.

As Thomas Edison said, "Success is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration."
It's not going to magically happen that Canadians get off the picket fence and band together, eating cherry jell-o and writing "Democracy!" with the rainbow-coloured exhaust of Avro Arrows.
I agree with the author, we have to work together, or it won't happen.

It took two elections to turf the Liberals after the Sponsorship Scandal... our people only change the status quo with assertive and constant reminders that something's amiss.
That isn't happening with the current ownership of the media.

You know something's screwed up when Andrew Coyne thinks the Conservatives should leave.. at least in their present form.
Thanks.

Zalm

"Anything Harpo does can be reversed by the first government that's elected to counter his mismanagement."
Actually no. Our government signs binding agreements which could at best be argued in courts for decades after they are signed.
These are intellectual teenagers who are giving away the rights to our and Native resources for all time. The absolutely best thing we the citizens of British Columbia could do is to combine forces with the Natives who have at least some treaties which should be binding by law. You may think that the Natives will come out ahead and we will suffer the consequences, but we have never given the Natives a voice in our future and we may all be surprised. One thing is sure, the current way of thinking doesn't work.
Here is the question: Given that the Natives have never been given a fair voice in the future of BC (forget the rest of Canada - it is a buncha nobodies making their private fortunes on our backs) could it be possible that they could contribute to a BC government and offer alternatives which might be better than anything our current governments have ever offered us?
You got your Walmart and Target and every other transnational targeting every last nickel in your pocket under the current current globalist system, but are they the best for the people who live here?
Or would it be better to have the people who live in BC take control of our resources and manpower and education and say, 'This is our country, and every deal we make will be for the advantage of the people who live here.'
Public bank to finance local to BC companies to exploit BC resources. Public referendums on issues like foreign fish farms and off-shoring our one time only resources to be finished in cheap labour countries like China. Real democracy is the way of the future.

I know you are going to say the Native are too dumb...

Well, guess what; they have been exploited and denigrated since the white man arrived with Christianity. Don't think for one second that their culture and ideas had nothing to offer - they were simply subjugated for profit - Nobody even looked at their ideas.

Bill Tieleman - disagreeing with Murray Dobbin

I always appreciate Murray Dobbin's well thought out and reasoned arguments. But I have the disadvantage of having read Murray's excellent book "Paul Martin: CEO For Canada?" and believed what it said about the Liberal Party!

I will draw criticism, as is often the case, but I have zero interest in a Liberal-NDP-Green coalition - even for one election. If I am faced with a candidate in my riding that I don't agree with and my political choices are restricted by the party I support - the NDP - then I will vote for alternatives in protest.

I am not, as Tyee readers well know, a supporter of proportional representation, especially the disastrous Single Transferable Vote option I successfully opposed in two binding BC referenda as president of NO BC STV.

But pro-rep is another debate for another day. My point is that Canadians will not support an unholy alliance of opposition parties in 2015 anymore than they did when Jack Layton, Stephane Dion and others proposed it to replace the Stephen Harper minority without a vote in 2008. My position then remains the same today: http://billtieleman.blogspot.ca/2008/12/liberal-ndp-coalition-government-died.html

Sorry but while I respect my Liberal and Green friends, I would never mistake them for social democrats. The history of the Liberal Party in power and how similar it is to the Conservative Party in power is what led Tommy Douglas to write his famous "Mouseland" speech, as true today as then.

Has the right wing been vanquish in other jurisdictions where coalition governments are the rule? Clearly not.

But like Charlie Brown, many progressives are still ready to try and kick the ball held by Lucy the Liberal. The results are always the same.

neoliberalism and merger

Until such time as the Liberals and NDP muster the political courage to give Canadians a genuine alternative by challenging neoliberalism nobody is going to take them seriously. They have been fudging it for too long.

Unless they go into some sort of merger real quick Harper will surely win the next election and they will limp along as usual in their delusional trance.

Like the US Canada is devolving into a single party state.

NO BC STV.

NO BC STV.
The BC STV was a thing of beauty, a way for the jackals to consolidate their power and disenfranchise the voters. I knew that if the BC Liberals wanted it, it could only be something that would work to their party's advantage. Hence I was against it.

Proportional representation is a different animal altogether from the STV and may be a way to regain some sense of democracy in this country. A coalition government would be the next best hope, a minority government next and the least desirable would be an autocratic majority government like we have now.

Bill Tieleman

We agree on a merger wit hthe Liberals. We might as well merge with the Conservatives.

That "disasterous" STV you mention got 57% of the vote in the first referendum. It was supported by more people than have supported almost all governments in BC or Canada. I think what you disliked about STV was the fact it would allow supporters of a party to choose which member of their party to vote for instead of having to hold their nose and vote for the only choice on the ballot or waste their vote. We certainly can't allow MLA's to be beholden to the people that voted for them instead of the party I guess.

As for your belief that citizens would not accept a coalition government, that's too bad for them. Because they don't vote for a PM, they vote for individual MPs and its time they wake up and understand what their political system is. They have only themselves to blame if they don't like it.

The suggestion of a merger is, as has been pointed out...

The suggestion of a merger with the Liberals is, as has been pointed out by others, fraught with danger.

The problem is that for every Stephane Dion in the Liberal Party there are two Paul Martins.

When you merge with a chameleon like the Liberal Party of Canada you have no idea who you'll wake up with in the morning.

On the other hand, I'd like all of those folks who think that a coalition is a bad idea to imagine what might have happened if folks like Bill (and the press) hadn't lit their hair on fire and the Layton/Dion deal had gone forward. Everybody who is now crying the blues about what Pee Wee's government is up to today should have a hard look at why they weren't out supporting the coalition which could have put paid to his hegemony. Why weren't the Liberals who now talk about cooperation yelling bloody murder in caucus when Ignatieff couldn't find the moral backbone to go ahead with a viable plan which would have put Harper's government down?

I'll tell you why: Because of that same narcissistic tendency which has always characterized many Liberals in this country - they really only care about themselves and their grip on power.

Just like the bunch who are currently contesting for the leadership.

If you want change in this country - don't look to Liberal politicians or their fair weather friends for it. Liberals who want to fix the country should choose a real alternative or change their stripes once and for all and come out in support of Pee Wee and his party.

Hope

Lets hope the Idle NO More shows Harpo for what he is Nasty. With many non - First Nations joining the FN they may Show Harps's true colours If you have ever been poor - disabled or other ways in need you will understand the attitude of those of the harpos of the world

Right on!

Cooperation will be the only way to get rid of Harper and save Canada - otherwise there is no hope at all...
here is my letter on the topic:

Our democracy is going down the tube in Canada as best evidenced by the fact that the polls show two thirds of Canadians are progressive, yet we are now being ruled with an iron fist by the Conservatives who likely stole the election in part through the use of robo-calls. Our elected representatives do not represent their constituents, but rather vote along party lines, as do the non-elected senators. The iron fist controls the media, as Harper never answers questions, just as he refuses to meet with the premiers.

Power in Canada is now concentrated in the Prime Minister’s office and most national policies and decisions benefit the corporations and the one percent, to the detriment of most Canadians. Whether it is more prisons, jet fighters, pipelines, gutting of environmental laws or omnibus bills, the undemocratic Conservative government is destroying the Canada we once cherished. And now they may soon be giving away our sovereignty by signing a treasonous trade deal with China, that will allow this thoroughly undemocratic country to sue any level of government that blocks its ability to utilize our resources.

There are solutions possible, but only if we have an electoral system that is fair and ensures that each MP is elected with more than 50 percent of the votes through a run-off election. In order to make sure that the majority of Canadians are represented by the next federal government, the two major progressive parties will have to cooperate so that either one of them or a coalition of the two form government in 2015. And to fix the problem of voter apathy we need to make voting mandatory as is done in Australia. More Canadians need to wake-up and stand strong to help bring democracy back by opposing the Harper government’s assault on the environment and our rights and freedoms.

Let's talk turkey.

In only one of the comments above was the paymaster hinted at. The paymasters of the Conservatives and the Liberals are BIG MONEY...often called the 1%. The NDP have Union support and grassroots support.The paymasters would resist any cooperation but as a fall back position would use the Liberals to water down any progressive policies the NDP would want to introduce. It is sad to see politicians putting their private ambition for power over the desperate needs of the people of Canada......perhaps a disqualification for a politician is that they put themselves forward for election....if the system was changed we might not have such morally challenged people as "leaders".

lets hope

Lets hope the Idle NO More shows Harpo for what he is Nasty. With many non - First Nations joining the FN they may Show Harps's true colours If you have ever been poor - disabled or other ways in need you will understand the attitude of those of the harpos of the world

System overhaul

A Coalition may be what is needed to stop Harper, but will not stop the system thats in place. Please listen to this from Canadian Cabinet Minister Paul Hellyer. We need to ge the bank of Canada back from the banking cartel, this is a must.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zt-YPwqzhE
more info at Mr Hellyers website: http://www.paulhellyerweb.com
Personally I think we also need to become sovereign and not be under crown rule..it isnt working in my opinion. Politicians have to swear allegiance to the queen, that is just not right, needs to be abolished altogether.
Also our voting system is obsolete..what a sham. These are some basics that need to change or else more of the same no matter who is elected.

I think you're right, mary jane

.... that IdleNoMore is about to reveal Harper's true colours in ways he could never have anticipated. Harper's carefully orchestrated chess game of continual betrayal is turning the Cons into a leper colony. They are smearing themselves. While watching some of the parliamentary debate yesterday as Harper fielded questions from the Opposition in regard to First Nations rights I noticed something I haven't observed before and that was the clearly uncomfortable expressions on a number of the Conservative MP's faces as their dear leader assumed his usual arrogant stance. The smear artists are smearing themselves.

Social democracy is the only choice if we are to survive as a living breathing species on a living breathing planet.

But it will be brave genuine movements of the people that bring in change and not our mostly cowering politicians who don't seem to want to openly address and name the present subterfuge going on.

IdleNoMore is now international in scope... and like the Civil Rights Movement, its time has come.

It will not be held back.

The power of IdleNoMore lies in its genuine human heart and in the integral right of all human beings to charter their own course - the redemptive winds of history carrying them forward to reclaim their rights and their homelands.

I don't agree with Murray on this one - I don't agree with running scared from bullies. All we have to do is to stand alongside IdleNoMore....and refuse to accept like them the BS Harperland governance/betrayals that are stomping on human rights and human dignity across this land.

Our cowering political parties need to develop the courage of their convictions, if indeed, 'politics' has anything to do with conviction.

There is a world movement now that is moving beyond the shallow waters of largely anachronistic politics.

Yes yes yes

Yes yes yes, to the power of 200 (enough for a coalition government)

There are people (voters), and there are partisans, and the partisans inside the party machines see the world through party-coloured spectacles, which always convince you that you can win a majority.

I have been a coo-operative, strategic voter and endorser for the past ten years, and I strongly believe that loyalty to the planet far outweighs loyalty to any party.

We MUST do as Murray suggests, and work together, else we'll see another five years of Conservative rule. It is small-minded for NDP loyalists partisans to insist that only THEY can form a majority government, and for the Liberals to claim exactly the same. And while they're fighting, the Tories run away with the spoils.

Yes to Nathan Cullen, Yes, to Joyce Murray, Yes to Elizabeth May.

yes to a federal NDP

the others had their shot.

guydauncey

Voting for a Liberal gets you the same government as voting for a Conservative. I won't vote "strategically".

Ed

What I contend is that this crime wave was brought on when they saw there would be little or no resistance from the general population.

lynn

"IdleNoMore is now international in scope... and like the Civil Rights Movement, its time has come."

You nailed it! In fact it is a full on civil rights movement. The hurtful, hateful comments (some ignorant, some calculated) that one hears in public are proof of the racism that exists in this country today.

We have so much to rise up against and rise above. The movement to equity and social justice is unfolding.

Problems with the Libs

Joyce Murray describes herself as a "game changer" but got to have the lamest twitter site I have ever come across. Her policies (pot deregulation) are just as lame, even if am somewhat supportive of legislating grass. Her proposed coalition scheme is far too complicated to have any chance whatsoever to come through.

And Justin Trudeau does not want to even discuss a coalition. So it is obviously *not* going to happen by putting pressure on leaders. Has to be a credible grassroot movement.

lynn

But that doesn't mean there won't be blood first....................

RickW

I think there will be many similarities to the southern CR movement as it plays out up north. Blood red truncheons, mass arrests, neighbour vs neighbour & familial disputes, violence and open hatred toward our first people and their supporters from officials & authority figures. It's ongoing and increasing but overt will be the new description

Pepper spray is a new tool, and hey, new prisons coming soon too. At least there will be no more double bunking.

Feverish and Rick W.

You know I think IdleNoMore will expand "the civil-rights struggle to the more all-inclusive level of human rights" as Malcolm X once advocated for years ago...moving it beyond the biases, control, and jurisdiction of the so-called 'civil' political state to the world stage and eventually and hopefully to the creation of a world court with teeth.....voicing and defending the innate and protective human rights of every man, woman and child born onto this earth.

This human...human rights struggle is a last stand for us all...and for all living things on this earth unless we change the way we think, define, and value life on this planet. As you expressed so well, Feverish: "We have so much to rise up against and rise above. The movement to equity and social justice is unfolding."

This global human rights struggle is about to link arms in solidarity round the world....and there is much discontent and suffering to link arms with in every direction and every corner of the world.

Our political system is representing us and other living things less and less...and less again, and is more and more becoming a great lobbying power for the consumption and 'rights' of dead material stuff and for the protection of the walking dead who can't get enough of that sort of thing....

It appears to be one of those times in history when sides will have to be chosen - and I guess we'll all find out who we really are.

Well spoken lynn

The last paragraph, and last line in particular is the essence of this grand human struggle. We can say many many things, but when our personal call to action is delivered, when it slaps us hard, it is then that we define ourselves, for better or for worse.

What Should Germany Have Done Differently

That is as dire as the question is, that we should be asking ourselves. So far Harper has been playing Canada as effectively as that other despot did in his rise to power, including playing people and groups off each other. We at least have the benefit of hindsight.

Never mind fretting about how to build a sketchy coalition or about the odd lot then sitting at the table. The 70 percent that doesn't vote con needs a game plan that: (1) is thought out in detail; (2) thinks outside the box. The analogy about getting out of a slide holds pretty well. Let's set our vision on where we DO want to go, and then act strategically instead of blindly flooring the gas.

Idle No More is indeed a civil rights movement of import. Our governments have long since stopped serving and representing us (if they ever did). What is our plan to take back the power to the people? Get together, set some goals and make some plans.

Good question Waynef

Feels like the proper order of events must be to put Harpo into the street first and then push reform as elections are brought back to the people.

I thought the German theme a bit extreme on first read, but it is a strong idea to explore. We might explore (explode) corporate person-hood and 'trade deals'

But the first sub-human that must go... Our very own subPrime minister Steve0 Harp0 needs to be disappeared - in the best possible way, of course.

Owen Gray - Northern reflections

Mr. Gray blogs daily about CDN life. His latest posts are well worth reading (as are all his observations.)

http://nor-re.blogspot.ca/

He links to this fascinating article by Chris Hedges in his most recent post:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_time_for_sublime_madness_20130120//

Thanks for these truthful voices.

Thank you Tyee community.

guydauncey --AGREE yes yes yes!

Loyalty to habitable earth and our children comes first! And we have solutions on the shelf--no excuses.

Global warming IS a crisis--the deceptive time lag in effects from CO2 is equivalent to an asteroid--and for an asteroid--you can bet our tax paid CBC flagship news would be ALL OVER IT!

We need a tipping point of people who do not have their heads in the sand...who really understand "loving" children, all species, habitable earth.

But the more that global population increases............

........the easier it becomes to manipulate people - to put "the fear" into them. Because the one thing they we all have to do is make a living, even while we are lobbying and agitating for more egalitarianism.