Signing up for the liberal party

Even if the author's end goal is *totally* right (i.e. get rid of the PCC next time around), I am still struggling with the concept of signing up. I will add that Mulcair is *not* showing the leadership required on this issue. But May is.

Why are the male politicians so clewed out? For the same reason I can't sign up???

clued out is

worse than clewed out. ooopsie.

Through (corrupt) Quebec

"Johnston believes the most likely route to power for the Liberals would travel once again through Quebec. Four of the nine candidates in this Liberal race are Quebecers, including frontrunners Justin Trudeau and Marc Garneau."

The same place that produced the Liberals difficult times:

"Acknowledging the Liberal Party's "difficult times over the last dozen years," he described the re-energized party he hopes to lead, one that would draw on old wisdom and young votes."

Old wisdom that allowed the corruption!

Too much baggage with the Liberals eh!

my recurrent nightmare

is that in the future we'll go to the polls to vote for a choice between Justin "twerp" Trudeau and Ben "gack" Mulroney....

Joyce Murray

By Kai's analysis, Joyce Murray is not only the most progressive candidate but also the one that will provide Canadians with the best chance of defeating Harper.

jt supporters

i think the Libs better check the supporters signing up
I suspect the Cons are adding plants...
a tactic of theirs to continue with a strong stable Con majority

Not an attractive choice.

Nothing would induce me to vote for Justin Trudeau. I remember Pierre Elliot Trudeau all too clearly, and he wasn't just anti-Albertan, but anti-westerner. It didn't matter when Saskatchewan, Manitoba and BC voted in candidates whose political ideology was center or left. His attitude was that what's good for Ontario and Québec was good for everyone, and damn the torpedoes. Since Justin Trudeau has nothing much going for him except PET's legacy, I'm not voting to kick my own ass just to spite Harper.

Liberals have dug themselves into a hole. They kept that party and its old policies going as long as they could, re-electing PE Trudeau's former cabinet year after year. They should've concentrated on thinking up truly fresh policy and attracting fresh newcomers. They are implicated in the money scandals which have riddled Québec forever, and they just reek of old and stale and the current mess that our country faces.

Now, instead of coming to grips with contemporary issues, they are trying to harken back to glory days that weren't really all that great for anyone west of Kenora. It's pathetic.

No, I wouldn't switch from voting NDP for that.

...Understandable.

It's easy to understand why Joyce Murray would only entertain a one-time partnership with the NDP (to change the voting system).

From Joyce's web site, on the BC NDP years:

"While continuing to build our company, I became increasingly dismayed by the economic situation in BC, which had run eight successive deficits and by the year 2000 was the worst performing province in the country. I was increasingly concerned about the kind of economic and environmental legacy we were leaving our children ..."

A quick affair with the NDP - but marriage? Absolutely no!

Joyce Murray proposes real democratic reform

Joyce Murray proposes, as this article notes, "one-time electoral co-operation" to defeat the Conservatives, the goal being to implement democratic reform. Her website says "Canada needs an electoral system that respects the votes of all Canadians, and awards power to parties according to the trust they have earned from the electorate." That is, proportional representation.

The article notes Trudeau supported instead a system based on a ranked preferential ballot, a reform that would he claimed would "completely change the tone of politics." Nagata says "It's a fine piece of policy." Well, no. A preferential ballot in single-member districts is just another winner-take-all system. No use to the Greens. No use to Canada, as Stephane Dion has explained very well:
http://ideefederale.ca/documents/Dion_ang.pdf

Stephane Dion

He's right where he sees why should we keep a system that amplifies our differences.

That said, I would prefer a system where there's no safe seats. Where I can select the candidate of my favourite party, not just the party itself.

Garneau

Being an astronaut and a hero is very brave and good BUT has nothing to do with running a country as its political leader.

How soon Joyce forgets.

Joyce Murray is the last person who should be advocating any kind of temporary cooperation with the Newly minted as a federal liberal she can't hide from her relationship with Campbell who was no liberal any way you looked at him. If you consort with thieves, even for a time, you have no credibility. Then to continue the same bullshit myth that comes from the BC Liberal song sheet finishes it.

From what I've seen - Harper isn't going anywhere

We need a real answer to him and I'm just not seening it yet - anywhere. Frightening.

Collaboration specifics from Mme Murray please

Perhaps I would sign up if I knew exactly what is being proposed.

What I would like from her: "I propose as the Liberal party leader to not present Liberal candidates in riding where the party came 3rd last time around throughout Canada. Furthermore, if the party came second (and the winner was a party other than the Conservatives), there would be no Liberal candidate either. Should the other opposition parties not reciprocate, I expect them to be accountable to the electorate next time around in the event that the Conservatives are back in power. Should a minority government be elected, I commit with other leaders to bring in the proportional next time around".

Trust No One

Joyce Murray......progressive?

Hardly.

Research her history.....who she put her trust in in provincial politics, who was her assistant in the BC Ministry of Lands and Environment, who she defended and cheerleaded for, who she supported, and who supported her in her latest incarnation as a Liberal MP.

She talks about "awarding power to parties according to the trust they have earned from the electorate" Ha! Ha! Ha!

For gawds sake read her history in the BC Legislative Hansard....it's all there ....what she stood for and defended....another lemming follower of the BC Liberal Pilothouse Pirates.....steering BC into deep doo doo and corruption.

Read the history of the BC Rail Great Train Robbery and familiarize yourself with the names of all the major players and back room boys.....they're all still playing their part in facilitating the rape of this country.....pulling strings just off the main stage....and hoping the electorate won't notice or care enough to remember what has already been stolen from them in terms of rights and resources.

Murray and May

Joyce Murray trying to portray herself as a Progressive is the biggest joke of the Federal Leadership race.This sis the same person who sat at the Cabinet table with Gordon Campbell between 2001 and 2005, when they inflicted immeasurable damage on working British Columbians. She, herself, was responsible for the closing of St Mar's hospital in New West.
And before attempting to seek co-operation with the NDP at the Federal level, maybe Elizabeth May could have a word with her colleagues in B.C., whose vote splitting only assists the B.C.Liberals, who are as far to the right as the Federal Conservatives.
The idea has merit, but the people advocating it have no credibility.

Leadership seekers will say anything!

Whomever is chosen they are still capatain of the old Liberal boat!

STV is real Proportional Representation not fake AV

Political gimmickry continues for another election cycle. Count on Big L liberals to propose a cure the ruse is that Alternative Voting (AV) a la ranked single member position or riding is really no different to the corrupt plurality we currently suffer under now.
The only thing worse than political party plotting behind closed doors to ink in coalitions on ballots is the ominous specter of disfranchised absent voter percentages on election day steadily increase.

Liberals in General

The last election killed the Liberals because they failed on every point to distinguish themselves from the Conservatives.

I have seen nothing in comment or debate that would have me change this thinking.

I guess we will have to wait and see?

Garneau

virimpig commented: "Being an astronaut and a hero is very brave and good BUT has nothing to do with running a country as its political leader."

There is a lot more to being a successful astronaut than simply being a "hero". Qualities include intellect, teamwork, leadership, fast thinking, long-term thinking, project management, patience, scientific and technical knowledge. There is also the perspective typically gained by those who have looked and thought about Earth from orbit.

I think those are very desirable characteristics for any political leader.

I am not fond of the Liberals or their deep corporate roots. However, in the interests of having a functional Parliament I would much rather see someone with Mr. Garneau's background as Liberal leader than a lightweight such as Mr. Trudeau.

It is all a matter of comparisons.

Compare Garneau's background to Harper's. Compare it to Christy Campbell. People sometimes choose to vote for heros for no other reason than they expect that "heroism" to be useful in the political arena. Often it isn't but like everything in politics, it is a crap shoot.

Liberals will increase their

Liberals will increase their seat count no matter who becomes leader. You can put money on it. Harper's Conservatives might be able to hang on to their majority if the Liberals where held to twelve more seats...and all other things remained equal, that is, the NDP held to all their new Quebec seats and didn't take any seats from the Conservatives in BC and the Greens remain with one solitary seat.

It's difficult to see where new Conservative seats could come from. Their Albetar base is tapped, even showing some faint signs of erosion. I suspect the Conservatives are not only disappointed, but surprised at the furor over Northern Gateway in BC. In a province where but for the fringe Green vote (May's seat being the exception) several seats would have swung NDP instead, it is quite likely the pipeline controversy (coupled with the lesser controversy about importing Chinese miners where Canadians would do and any other trouble Harper stirs up in the meantime...like Idle No More) will tip seven or eight ridings to the NDP. Add to this the general disgust at Harper's contempt for parliament, the courts and the electorate, revolting right-wing patriots, left-wingers, separatists and environmentalists alike right across the country and you've got a Harper minority at worst and better, a non-Conservative coalition.

The best outcome IMHO would be an NDP government but with the resurgence of the Liberals guaranteed, I don't see where those seats will come from; any regions where Conservative support might collapse, the Liberals are usually the devil the voters know (BC being the exception.)

The notion that the Liberals collapsed because they're evil has-beens is as much a myth as the Harper theology that the Conservative white knight vanquished the powerful Liberal dragon. The reality is Harper won by default; the Liberals beat themselves up, no one else. However, the real reason why erstwhile Liberal voters either stayed home or parked their support elsewhere is the illegitimacy of Ignatieff who was not elected by party members. Any legitimately elected leader will remedy that.

Harper has no reason to applaud Trudeau or whoever wins the Liberal leadership.