This is serious...

And we need to be as well. We need to start at home and put pressure on the BC gov't to face-down the feds (at least until Dix is in power).
Chief Justin George of the Tsleil-Waututh (People of the Inlet) has been talking about this for a year, as has the Tyee. We have to start listening and acting.
http://www.klahowya.ca/resources/615-tsleil-waututh-draws-a-line-in-the-oil-sands.html

What the idiot leaders of

What the idiot leaders of history and present have never been about to comprehend with their pea sized brains is that all actions cause equal reactions, canceling out any temporary benefits.

All wars in history, and this is an open war against the environment and people, may have given temporary benefits to a few and the illusion of benefits to their followers, but the ultimate reactions always have caused and always will destroy, cancel out the benefits.

Who gained and what from WW2, or the wars in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, apart from "wealth taking" for a few and death and destruction for the people ?

The same is happening with these economic wars against the environment, destroying people with their reactions.

"Wealth can not be created, only taken from others, the environment and future generations."

And here is the typical example of "wealth taking".

Ed Deak.

WE JUST KEEP TALKING

We talk as though these pipelines are indeed an accomplished thing. Something that is going to come about in spite of all of our rhetoric.

Kinder Morgan's expansion like the Northern gateway pipeline are not going to be built in our province. Not because we talk about it but because we will do whatever needs be done to stop them.

The present governments may try to brand us (the citizens of B.C.) terrorists, history will as usual call us freedom fighters taking arms against a sea of corruption.

As Iggy said 'Rise Up' !

Will Mulcair be next P.M.?

IPP pentstocks oversized too

You will find the penstock diameters for many operating and proposed IPP lake draining power projects are also greatly oversized. Would that be to allow future power generation more than the initial EAO assessment was for? Or would that be extra to allow for fresh water exports? There is no absolute definitive legal framework that says NAFTA will not be invoked once that drained lake water has been used as an industrial commodity. What could be easier? Private corporations have already made money selling the electricity at exhorbitant rates, what if NAFTA says they can now sell that very same water as it has been used for a commercial purpose?

The parallels are there....make the public think EAO approvals mean something. Make the public think they are informed. Like the article mentions, once the pipe is there, it is there.

WHAT DID YOU EXPECT PEOPLE.........................

WHAT DID YOU EXPECT PEOPLE...............

LOOK AT THEIR TRACK RECORD RIGHT UP TO THE F35'S,

AND IT AINT GONNA STOP UNTIL PEOPLE GET FED UP OF HAVING CRIMINALS HELPING CRIMINALS RUN OUR COUNTRY.

perspective

The story sez: "Many people in the Lower Mainland are used to seeing ships in English Bay, but their numbers will be dwarfed by crude oil supertankers known as Aframax, Suezmax, and the four football field equivalent, VLCC -- an apt acronym for Very Large Crude Carrier."

Let's try to keep the hyperventilating down to a manageable level here.

First, there will be no VLCCs here -- they don't fit in the harbour. Biggest you'll see is Suezmax, and that's only if they get permission to dredge the 2nd narrows some more. The VLCCs will indeed be on the Kitimat route, and they are already sailing happily through Juan de Fuca to Puget Sound refineries (have been for decades).

Second, in 2011 Port of Vancouver says there were 3,024 ships of all types in and out of the harbour, and of those 206 were tankers (and not all tankers carry crude oil). Can someone explain to me how 206 tankers would dwarf the other 2,818? The biggest vessels, by the way, are the container ships.

There is a tonne of fearmongering going on around these proposals, and this story is an example.

resistance

Until Elections Canada and the court cases cued up by individuals and Council of Canadians about illegal behavior by robocalls to misdirect and harass voters are resolved in new bi-elections we must demonstrate to the holders of power on parliament hill in Ottawa that the Omnibus Bill is Unacceptable to the Canadian Voters.

It must not be allowed to pass when one third of this document,not open for opposition scrutiny; is all about GUTTING protection of the environment.
The students of Quebec are an amazing example of 1.political understanding by this generation (and their parents that appear to support them)
and 2. persistence,organization and solidarity. They may also have a clearer perception about the federal government. The nearly naked demonstration on the weekend flies in the face of new Fed. proposed legislation that criminalizes covering one's face.
I'm going to be ready to demonstrate about the STRIPPING of Environmental Protection over our B.C. lands and wildlife,let alone the likelihood of pollution of our waters, soil and air quality when the oil spills occur. Meet me in front of our local MP's office.

We need a tanker update! (1)

It is easy to look at a spill of any kind and cite a disaster in the making! A 1 liter spill in a pond appears to be a drum full.

Don't kill and industry based on knee jerk opportunistic judgements!

The tankers built now are built of a heavier gauge metal. They are further engineered to handle stress much better than at any time in the past.

They are built with coffer dams;and empty space that is a dry space (2 to 4 feet) between the outer and inner hull. Both hulls are supported independently from each other.

Navigation is insanely accurate now and geo- compassing will throw up other ships in the sea anywhere around the tanker. Further the same system can track them to within 2 meters as they traverse the world.

From a marine background I can tell you that Ships' Masters are trained to a higher degree than your biggest jet liner pilot. It takes many years of applied practice to get that certificate.

Likewise the chief engineer and other engineers.

In my experience and it is considerable the most vulnerable time is the hook-up and disconnect. Worse case there is a partial line full.

An further example of sensationalism in the name of environment.

The town of Inuvik in the NWT on the Mackenzie River used Bunker C applied with tankers to their roads to control dust.

The Marine hoses had to cross this road to the tank hook ups and a hose was dripping this same bunker C through a connection onto the road. Estimate loss 500 ml over 8 hours.

The Town environmental people were on their knees measuring the drip. Made the marine company shut down the pumping which did nothing and kept it shut down for 18 hours while it was determined there was nothing wrong.

The Decision Has Already Been Been Made

I think it is useless to try to oppose this project. The decision has already been made. This is the way the Harper government works so there is really no point in attending any environmental accessment. It would be a complete waste of time. Thomas Mulcair can not stop this nobody can. Harper doesn`t care what the people of British Columbia have to say. So the people of British Columbia have a decision to make. Are we going to roll over and let it happen or we going to to consider more drastic measures? Unless someone has a better idea the only thing that can stop this is separation. British Columbia would make a viable nation on its on its own. It would even give us a chance to get out of the free trade deal. I await any other suggestions that anyone else might have.

Risks outweigh benefits

There will be a few hundred permanent jobs in BC only, while we take all the risk of a spill. There are far more jobs in tourism and fisheries.

There will be a lot more pollution in the Vancouver harbour with these extra supertankers, they don't run on sail power. Soot, particulates, nitrous oxides, ground level ozone etc.

We make a contribution to climate change.

We concentrate our economy toward one sector. No broker or investor would advise a client to put all their money into one venture, we are supposed to diversify our portfolio to hedge our bets and protect ourselves. Why aren't we doing this with our economy? Our colourful money will become the colour of black oil.

Sometimes we don't know what we've got 'til its gone. They paved paradise and put up a oil tanker port.

@blackie

well blackie, here you are again...throughout my life and with the few encounters with 'blackies' that I've had, none were ever positive...and here you are again. "...fearmongering..."? NO, not really, just reality from the perspective of those with some experience in the matter. It certainly IS NOT the economists that have that. They are totally ignorant of the engineering, ...and that's what 'ignoring' means when they ignore the science. The science of those who would support such insanity is based on 'imaginary friends and spirits' to take care of the problems. It is no wonder that these with such inclinations would be ignorant of the real situation and the real threats. THESE PIPELINES WILL NEVER TRANSMIT even should they be laid, thereby negating the crude carriers.

SEPERATION?

Sounds OK to me. I am a long time advocate for more regional autonomy, which ever way it is acquired. In order to promote individual responsibility and accountability, one should have more autonomy in one's immediate environment, no matter what 'outside' forces have to say about it. Look at what's coming: fracking? Now that's another insane technology, and one that could easily be put back on the shelf by having people in the closest proximity to these insane ventures have the veto on any such developments.

Blackie, guess who's ass is

Blackie, guess who's ass is in the sling when there's an oil spill? It's usually the Captain, not the oil charterer. If you read the complete screw-up by oil tanker company(HQ'd in Chicago) exec's just read what happened to the Amoco Cadiz. It was not the Captain's fault for that misshap because of the company's standing orders, but he was the fall guy. And by the way, there are larger V/L's than VLCC's. They are refered to as ULCC's, Ultra Large Crude Carriers. I have seen 2 of them and they are more than 566,000 tonnes DW. Both were built in France at Nazaire.

OIL CARRIERS

BET YOUR LIFE BIG AND SMALL CARRIERS WILL PLY OUR WATERS.

THE HEARINGS HAVE BASICLY SAID SO PERIOD

WANT TO RISK FUTURE GENERATIONS THERE OPPORTUNITY TO SHINE IN THE SUN,

WHILW WE ROT IN THE LANDSCAPE

TYPICAL AINT IT

COME ON YOUNG PEOPLE SAVE YOUR WORLD AND THE NEXT GENERATION FROM THE MASS HYSTERIA BY GETTING OUT AND VOTING OUT THESE GREEDY GROUPS OF CARE LESS PEOPLE

Gary.... Harper will get rid

Gary.... Harper will get rid of himself. With the government's numbers going down and reelection becoming impossible the corporate mafia owners of the Conservative Party will force him out and into a string of directorships, no later than sometime next year .

The public is also beginning to wake up to the fraud of capitalism, all over the world,
the same way they woke up to the fraud of communism and will end the globalization crime wave, which will return economies to home country locals.

Being the richest country on Earth, Canada was doing very well before the present criminal economic theory and the "free trade " rackets were forced on us, forcing the sale of the country. That will end the resource waste and these crazy schemes to make a few rich. manufacturing and making things at home will thrive again.

China and India, promoted as the future greats will be in big trouble, with unsustainable economies built on fraudulent theories.

Ed Deak.

To Ed I hope you`re right

I have seen no indication that he is on the way out. Yes he is down in the polls. However the corporate media will soon soften everyone`s views on him as they always do. The thing that worries me is he is trying to push things as quickly as possible. He knows that the next B.C. election happens next may and he knows that the NDP is going to win that election. If I`m on the right track he`s going to have his sham environmental review hearings over by then. And it will be all over before the election even starts. If something is started soon there will be no chance to do anything at all.

Pipeline Capacity

If Enbridge was to increase flow through the proposed (never to be built) Northern Gateway at a future date, wouldn't that mean increasing the pressure of the dilbit going through the line and wouldn't that in itself increase the risk of bursting the pipeline?

"fearmongering"??

Blackie says we're all fearmongering. This is similar to a Koch Bros. dismimissive technique in efforts to whitewash the destruction and plain evil they and their icky ilk are doing--to our environment, to our national and local economies, to our grandchildren's future and so forth. Talk about satanic, psychopathetic and just plain stupid.

Mary.... What you're

Mary.... What you're complaining about is being taught in our universities as the "science of economics"..

Why is everybody complaining about the politicians and the corporate mafia, when all they're doing is to follow the scriptures provided to them by the professors, the same way priesthoods justified colonizations and the mass murder of natives as the "Will of God." ?

All economic theories, regardless what "...isms" they're called, are basic religions and are enslaving and destroying humanity exactly the same way religions have done it in the past and now.... .

Ed Deak.

Lots more talk

Seems to me we keep talking, but that clearly will not stop these projects!
The real terrorism today is greed, lies and corruption in the highest strata of power.
How do we get change? How to get rid of this mind set, and if necessary these people?
Once we can answer these questions the path forward will be straight.
Personally, I am not sure how to do it; How to organize it;
Any answers anyone?

These projects are dead

These projects are dead already, together with the present form of collectivizer capitalism, because its leaders, or owners, are going too far, too crazy and it causes the inevitable reactions from the public.

The crazier and more corrupt deals they come up with, like these pipelines and CETA, the sooner they go.

Just history repeating itself for the thousandth of time.

There can't be any wars if nobody turns up to fight, or tell the leaders to go and screw themselves..

Ed Deak.

I hope and pray

public resistance will be able to overcome the pipeline juggernaut rolling toward our coastline in two directions.

Rhetorical Excess Extraordinaire

Behind the overheated rhetoric about those dastardly greedy oil companies and those huge tankers just looking for that next reef to dump their load of oil on seems to be any number of huge blind spots among those who so vociferously protest. Consider these points the next time you fill your car with gasoline or use something made out of plastic, or use some other product made from petroleum.

The first point is that whatever these greedy oil companies produce ends up being used mainly by you and me. If there weren't consumers of oil, there would be no oil companies. Consumers of huge amounts of oil are not going to go away for the foreseeable future.

When was the last ocean oil spill along the Pacific Coast? Seems to me the last significant one was the Exxon Valdez, where a drunken captain ran his tanker onto a reef. Despite the fact that Exxon Valdez sized tankers come down the BC coast and past Victoria on the way to Cherry Point in Washington State just about every day, there hasn't been a significant incident since the Exxon Valdez.

I drive past the site of BC's last major land-based oil spill regularly. It was on Inlet Drive in Burnaby, when a non-oil company backhoe ruptured an oil pipeline. Yes, there was a big mess. No, there isn't the slightest hint of damage now.

While the pipelines proposed to go through BC will carry oil mainly for the Asian market, there is a massive amount of goods coming from the Asian market to BC.

Critics of exporting oil say we should refine it here. If some company did decide to build a new refinery here, would there be no environmental campaign to stop it?

As a last point, when are the hysteria and doomsday scenarios going to be replaced with rational thinking and problem solving skills that will take account of the fact that we will be using oil for a very long time to come?

We have enough oil and gas to

We have enough oil and gas to fill our tanks and equipment forever, without the pipelines

The products that are coming from Asia can be produced right here ,as they always have been, including in my own shops, by Canadians making good wages and owning their own homes.

Ed Deak.

To Ed

I too so wish you're right, our lives depend on getting rid of these barbaric so-called leaders, all corrupt, greedy pigs and as evil as any humans have ever been.

x4estworker

I think people do think about it when they fill their cars, its part of the reason the opposition exists. Why are we giving away a finite resource? Why do we allow foreign companies to extract a raw resource that we need and ship it out of the country?

Its like being told the price of food is skyrocketing in Ethiopia and meanwhile Ethiopia exports food.

We should export only surpluses of renewable resources. Things like grain. Non-renewables should never be exported nor should foreign companies be allowed to buy them and take them away.

Another argument would be what is the logic of us paying the same price for gas as people with a shortage of it just because the company could sell to them instead if we didn't. Should people in Saskatchewan pay the same price for grain as people in Shanghai? Its our resource yet that means nothing under the current economics.

To Ed: re your last two comments...

Your optimism is to be commended, that all these things shall surely pass -- however, history proves you wrong. CETA is no different than NAFTA, and NAFTA went through, albeit with a struggle. Although better informed now through alternative media, it is still only the people that care who might make a difference. There is, unfortunately, a large segment of society that doesn't care or pay attention to the world around them, and so, if corporate and political greed want something, it will happen.

Just a week ago, driving from Vancouver to the Okanagan, we passed truck after truck hauling pipes of all dimensions, which I assume were heading for northern BC or Alberta. All the pipe was probably manufactured from the steel of derelict ships for which India is so well known. So much for Canadian jobs as part of the oil industry.

Oka..... The "free trade"

Oka..... The "free trade" fraud is only just over 20 years old and not yet part of history.

The CETA and the Trans Pacific crime wave, eagerly endorsed and drooled over, by our bought and braindead politicians are far worse than NAFTA. If they ever become realities, before people wake up, they could easily become the catalysts and the real wake up call for humanity that enough is enough and will get rid of the crooks who are pushing them.

Sometimes, or perhaps most of the time, major disasters are the best learning lessons.

Being a lifelong individualist. in the real sense, I'm not a friend of the EU, believing in free cooperation between people, based on independence, but there hasn't been a major war in Europe for 76 years, because of the destruction caused by WW2, whereas there have been constant wars between Europeans before that.

The same will happen here. Once people wake up to the destruction caused by criminal economic theories, they'll get rid of the proponents and send them to hell, here and all over the world.

Canada would have been and may still be the best place to start a wake up movement to spread all over the world.

Ed Deak,

Correction....no major wars

Correction....no major wars for 67 years.
Ed Deak.

What now?

Today, I watched the NDP try to stall Bill C-38--a third of its 400+ pages dedicated to gutting our environmental laws--in a vain attempt to slow the inevitable.

Meanwhile, the Harper regime continues to obfuscate and repeat their talking points in reply to demands for the truth about everything from donations from organized crime, the robocall election fraud affair, to the regime's witch hunt against environmental groups.

In the end, the sitting devolved into an impotent discussion about snow crab--no doubt an important species, but a sideways issue under the circumstances. The stalling tactic also took away from the more urgent questions.

The corporatist agenda marches on, with no sign of any moderation. In fact, the regime seems intent on a "shock and awe" attack on the country's environmental laws and the very institutions of democracy, built over generations to guard against untrammelled power.

What is left, when our institutions fail us in the face of such undemocratic attacks?

Former BC NDP MLA Idea Also A Likely Alternative

From the Prince George Citizen:

"A former Prince George area MLA is promoting rail cars as a means of transporting crude oil from Alberta to B.C.’s west coast as an alternative to the proposed Northern Gateway Pipeline.

Rail would also negate the $5.5 billion expenditure to build a pipeline and $100 million to make Prince Rupert’s port supertank friendly. He also believes Prince Rupert, with its deep water port, would pose fewer hazards than the Kitimat proposal by avoiding the sensitive Douglas channel.

Nunweiler calculates CN Rail has the capacity to deliver 2.6 million barrels of bitumen to Prince Rupert each day, compared to 525,000 barrels via the Northern Gateway Pipeline.

CN Rail spokesperson Kelli Svendsen said CN “offers a flexible, scalable solution, with assets and service to match the oil industry’s evolving needs.

“The CN network is fluid and has capacity to meet the needs of our customers as production increases.

We can ramp up service to daily units ... based on customer demand.”

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/article/20120215/PRINCEGEORGE0101/302159979/-1/princegeorge/ex-mla-hypes-oil-by-rail