Joe Oliver

Is a pathetic piece of garbage..

And a liar!

On the Lang Oleary exchange today..

Joe Oliver claimed the Northern Pipeline would create 698,000 thousand jobs..

That`s a lie..

Also, Kevin(Big holder of Enbridge stock)Oleary asked Joe Oliver to ...

"To write new legislation to fast track the approval"

Joe Oliver stated that he was looking at that option.

What liars, all of them, there are all but 283 permanent after construction jobs in BC...

Please digress Joe Oliver, where the hell are the other 697,727 jobs?..China?

Harper will fall on Enbridge, as will Christy Clark, [OFFENSIVE CHARACTERIZATION REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

'Good man' is May politicking

It's Elizabeth May being a politician. Yes, I find it disgusting as well.

It's more of the usual statesman claptrap, the same sort of rot we endure every time one of these sad-sacks bites the dust and we are robbed of tens of thousands of dollars and more to listen to the twaddle about heroic public service at great self-sacrifice, while the self-congratulatory back-patting clowns drone on in eulogy at their most insincere.

I feel the vomit coming on already.

"Unfortunately, there are environmental neoconservatives, free-market libertarians and other radical groups that would seek to block seize upon this opportunity to diversify our trade away our commons for private gain. Their goal is to stop expand any major project no matter what the cost to Canadian families in lost jobs and illusory economic growth.

"No forestry. No mining. No oil. No gas. No more hydro-electric dams. Nothing is off limits for neo-conservative privatization and exploitation.

"These groups threaten to hijack dismantle our regulatory system to achieve their radical ideological agenda. They seek to exploit any loophole they can find, stacking fixed agenda public hearings with bought and paid for bodies to ensure that nothing delays or kills good private profiteering projects. They use funding from foreign special interest groups, lobbyists, billionaires, even wealth stolen from illegal foreign military adventures, to undermine further entrench Canada's national elite private economic interest."

we're in trouble

If that's the best opposing members of the House can do, we are in trouble.

In defense of May

Joe is scum I think we can all agree on that but May honestly hopes that she can convince some of these misguided fools to behave ethically and you don't convince someone to moderate their behavior by telling them they are beyond redemption.

Saying "you are a good man behaving badly"" is much more effective than saying you're rotten evil son of Reformer behaving badly". Misguided? Politicing? perhaps but considering how low the tone in the house has become I can live with it. May's arguement is spot on why are we attacking her?

The textbook definition of

The textbook definition of economics, once again, is : " The science for the management and distribution of scarce resources".

Which means physical actions involving physical realities that have internationally recognized measurements, protected by international laws.

Distribution means benefits to all and not legalized crime to steal and destroy to "create wealth" for a few. At least not in any allegedly democratic society.

Monetary values are infinitely variable , temporary, often violence induced perceptions, controlled by the gambling casinos of the stock and money markets for the purpose to exploit and steal the most from the most, because "Wealth can not be created, only taken....."

Which means that present imaginary monetary values, created from the air are "Licence to control energy, issued by a special interest sector for its own benefit". In other words, legalized crime.

As all economic actions, at all levels, are the use of physical realities, and because the environment is not a perception, but a physical reality, defined by unbreakable laws, the use of infinitely variable monetary values for economic calculations is a fraud and environmentalism is the real law of economics.

Once again, don't blame the brainless, bought and corrupt politicians, but the universities where the legalization of these crime waves against the environment and humanity originate in the forms of pseudo religions, at the intelligence level of Hitler's racial theories.

Harper is a low intelligence, psycho, maniac dictator, who commands his brainless followers into unquestioned loyalty and submission and the garbage in Oliver's ideas and letters originate at the PMO.

Or else, they're out.

Ed Deak.

No, no lizzy

You got it wrong.

The people that elected you said,

Kick butt,

And you heard kiss butt...

eenine meenie minee moo

Ms May is taking a stand, what is Christy doing?
Our glorious premier is waffling, waiting to see where the wind blows.

Did we elect leaders who depend on the latest poll to make a decision? if so, why is the entire country not simply run by opinion polls?

Personally I investigate how the candidates stand on various issues and vote accordingly, if they do not have any opinion, they are not worth considering.

Could Lizzie be showing...

...a little sarcasm when she refers to Joe as a "good man". It is highly unusual for an MP to call another by their correct descripter. It is traditional to refer to them all as "honorable" regardless of the side they are on. But I agree that based on what he wrote in his open letter the guy is a fool and I want him to keep talking because He won't help the government's cause.

A reminder

Every now and then the Cons careful veneer of moderation falls off and the true paleoconservative authoritarian is revealed. They are Tea-Partiers in beaver hats. Our PM is an apocalyptic Christian nutbar who thinks that God left us the environment to do with whatever we like. We humans (or rather, Believers of a very specific type) are going to be raptured anyway, so what does it matter?

pipeline route

Just to correct something Elizabeth May said about the pipeline running through the spirit bear rainforest. There is no pipeline there. It stops at Kitimat. From there the tankers negotiate the treacherous waters of the Douglas Channel and pass Princess Royal Island which is part of the rainforest area mentioned. A tanker accident along those shores would be far worse than a pipeline spill because a pipeline can be repaired while a tanker spill would have to be cleaned up and that would take decades.

Evil, bad, piece of garbage, etc

In response to the many commentors that feel the need to hurl hyberbolic insults at Joe Oliver, this type of language and reactionary response makes you no better Joe himself. Identifying people as 'good or evil' is the kind of divisive strategy that got us in this mess in the first place. A very well-written letter by Elizabeth May.

An ignorant man

Joe's talk of "socialist billionaires" is an oxymoron if there ever was. Also shows he knows nothing about socialism. Seems in his mondo bizzaro world everyone who is not a neocon must be a "socialist." He has stooped to the level of the US hate radio morons who claim that Obama is a "Muslim and a socialist." Is this the sort of ignoramus we want in charge of the country?

Spot on Elizabeth.

Another false dichotomy from a government bent on both dividing and ruling through false dichotomies.

Even assuming that the moratorium of tanker traffic should be lifted, one would want to wait till carbon sequestration at the source could be implemented and First Nations rights and interests could be clarified.

Refine it here

and sell it here. As the world financial conditions worsen, being more self sufficient is the only thing that makes sense.
Why take the chance of ruining a coastline for foreign owned oil companies profit?
http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/gasoline-export-scam.html

While I do not agree with the climate meme Ms May pushes, she is the only MP who voted against participating in the destruction of Libya.

What's wrong with decorum?

I agree with kubera above. Elizabeth May's message is right on. Why is it a problem if she delivers it with articulate and respectful decorum, rather than rudely slamming Oliver as some people seem to think is necessary? Some of the things she promised us when we elected her was to help increase the level of decorum in parliament and to diligently and with integrity stand up for issues which she and we feel are important. She's doing exactly that and I think that the actual message she is delivering is indeed what we want her to say.

Surprised Oliver has not used the word

terrorist yet!

The real radicals

are the ones building prisons, shredding due process, ignoring sovereignty and international treaties while sending Canadian warships and jet fighters to threaten Iran right now. This whole country has been hijacked.

Let's stand up and be counted and write letters and occupy

Yes,oh yes! Well spoken and true to what, I believe the majority of the B.C. electorate want to be understood about THE ENVIRONMENT.
Mr. Harper wants a FAST FORWARD on this selling oil sludge to the Chinese.
Elizabeth has it right. It is this federal government that is the radical element... in it's handling of pushing the costs and environmental damage on it's B.C.citizens to line the pockets of transnational oil companies.
When an oil pipeline was proposed through the north in the 70's when Trudeau was in power;he did NOT start casting out negative,disrespectful propaganda against public submitters to the Investigating Commission.Seems to me that could be challenged in court-IN CANADA,YOU SAY/ WHAT A PITY WE HAVE BECOME SO LOW as to cast dispersions on legitimate voices to a commission.
I do want to hear from the the average person outside this country(Venezuela is being mentioned)Perhaps their experiences have a lesson to be shared when the inhabitants of a region are raped of their resources and made to live in a barren, polluted land to raise generations under corporate control.
DOES that sound like colonialism ? - well it has taken us 2 or more centuries to recognize the pattern. Now it is to be visited again on this society; the First Nations ,in particular, who understand it well.
Elizabeth May makes sense in her opposition to name calling that the PMO is only able to muster.Is that why he wants a re-enactment of the battles of the War of 1812 to show the Americans that we intend to trade oil to China? big time! I don't like this (40% of a low voter turnout) elected leader. He alarms me.
I am writing him a letter to ask him to honour due process of the commission and let all who wish to speak to be heard.
Such great comments to Lizzy May here and I will use some of your language in my letter.

When I drive through Alberta; on my way back East I get the overwhelming stench of oil drilling in the air( even tho' I love the sight of those wind generators at Pincher Creek as I pull out of the Rockies). Could it be that Albertans don't smell that constant gas/oil odour anymore/ Could it be that they haven't lit a match beside their running water and seen it ignite?
B.C. is not Alberta.

British Colombians = Radicals

BCs premier from hell is backing fracking and pipelines and how fitting, pipe fitting that the election and pipelines both come up for question in 2013. People will get to decide if they want Clark as their premier and if they want to destroy the Coast at the same time. Good for nothing and Bad for the environment and evil is as evil does and boy this is as evil as hell. I was wondering what got Clark back into the Liberal cabinet
and I see it is she forgot something. The rest of the province as Clark sells out and soon people will get to vote.

In lockstep with our southern neighbour

That's coming, freebear. No doubt Joe's radical boss will soon be signing Canada's version of NDAA so as to round up all these pesky pipeline resistors and put them in indefinite detention, so NewGovt can proceed unobstructed with their sugar-plum visions of petro-utopia.

and Harper can go to Hell

If he thinks he is going to destroy the Coast and have a major negative impact on the world.

Free Wiley

Harper may be in familiar territory with pesky pipeline resistors but it is not his decision to make because it is residents of BC who have the final say just like his HST tax BC gave back.
So is BC all turned on with the prospects of guaranteed oil spills along their Coast and 300 jobs up North. I didn't put a question mark because one would have to be an idiot or Harper to give it the thumbs up given the facts.

Don't forget that in the

Don't forget that in the warped minds of our so called "economists" and "conservative" politicians, any oil spills would be accounted as "diversification of the economy" and "growth of the GDP"

When students go to study economics they`re brainwashed for 4 plus years that there are no such things as "-" or minus in economics only "+" or plus, for everything.

They may have learned how to subtract in elementary schools, but they'll have forgotten the art of subtraction by the time they graduate in universities, as it wouldn't be "efficient".

Ed Deak.

radicalsRRfriends

Please, everyone take a look at this to really understand what's at stake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3bKmz4od3g

Thank-you to a commenter on a CBC discussion page, today.

Yes, Kubera

Name calling and lashing out in crazy rhetoric designed to scare voters off one's opponent is immature and counterproductive (though it was productive to help the Cons get a majority).
Having little means to be efficacious other than integrity and a voice, May can only wield those as respectfully and articulately as she has done in her objection.

I agree with Kubera. May makes good points and does not deserve any flak. Everyone who wishes Oliver to hear aggressive language is free to write a letter. As an MP, May can only hope to have an impact with solid arguments and tact, which she has done here.

kubera

"May's arguement is spot on why are we attacking her?"

The decorum is pathetic. Why address the issue? Why bring it up? Why say anything at all rather than call him a 'good man'?

OMIT " I respect you and like you a lot as a colleague in the House." AND "protect your good name and". She need not be rude (and I doubt she ever would be as it is not her style) but nor need she pander to decorum. Just be straight, Ms May.

Thanks Elizabeth

Nothing wrong in being polite to other human beings, while being critical about their (or their boss's) ideas. Inflamatory name calling gets us nowhere, especially when inaccurate. Isn't that what we try to teach our kids?

Of course that's exactly what Joe did, and aside from the project's negative impacts to B.C., that's also why there's so much blowback to his statement.

Did Harper set Joe up as a straw man? Sure doesn't sound like PMO rhetoric, although its likely how they think.

The "Socialist Billionaire" oxymoron. Could the Harper government please give us their definition of "socialist" so as to educate us ignorant Canadians?

Likewise "radicals", anyone who would oppose the plans of large fossil fuel corporations and their political minions?

Sound and good science? Only if it supports the go ahead. Just ask Dr. Schindler of the U. of A., amongst many other scientists who weren't bought and paid for.

This Tar Sands, pipeline, super tanker plan, (along with the Keystone XL and other schemes to export that toxic goo), is likely the biggest continental and global issue since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Unfortunately, regardless of the review's findings, the final decision will be made by the Harper cabinet.

Is the rush to fastrack this decision an attempt to get it passed before the Harper mandate runs out and a new election is called?

If 70 or 80% of those along the pipeline route, or even all B.C.ers, said NO, would that stop it?

I suspect that this is a done deal and that the hearings will be little more than that, hearings to be shelved. I would be pleased if it were otherwise, but methinks that Rafe was correct, our democracy as currently practiced, is a "sham".

Thank God for Sanity

Thank God the government is concerning itself with real job creation rather than the wasted decades of mythic subsidy-welfare green non-job creation. Seeing as how America, Spain, Germany etal can't make a go at it you'd think the con game would have been recognized by now.

PS Congrats Lise StD!

Similarity to dictators

Joe Oliver's comment about "foreign interests" trying to hyjack the government's plans sounds almost identical to the former Lybian leader and the present Syrian president's accusations of foreign interference.

Well documented Nazi, Hermann Goering, pointed out at Nuremberg, that there was nothing more uniting to any type of regime than claming that a nation's well being was threatened by external forces.

But that was before the age of the internet and a more 21st. century global viewpoint. It doesn't seem to work so well these days.

Then again, what about those foreign oil companies that threaten what we call Canadian democracy?

She was too nice. Joe Oliver

She was too nice. Joe Oliver like the rest of the Harper Government™ are just turds who are in the service of Big Oil and the likes and do not give a dam about what the people want. Sure General Secretary has a 'majority' but as well 61% never voted for them either.

Don't forget that in the

Don't forget that in the warped minds of our so called "economists" and "conservative" politicians, any oil spills would be accounted as "diversification of the economy" and "growth of the GDP"

When students go to study economics they`re brainwashed for 4 plus years that there are no such things as "-" or minus in economics only "+" or plus, for everything.

They may have learned how to subtract in elementary schools, but they'll have forgotten the art of subtraction by the time they graduate in universities, as it wouldn't be "efficient".

Ed Deak.

Dan the socialist

Like Justin Trudeau opined of Peter Kent: "You piece of shit" so this government can be painted with the same brush. Joe Oliver is simply reaffirming Trudeau's earthy remark.

Elizabeth May however, vowed to bring more civility to The House, however ersatz it may be. It's just good manners, however hypocritical the latter may be.

To deflect is to win

Unfortunately I think another purpose of Joe Oliver's letter is to deflect by enragement. By making himself a target the hope is that those who are the subject of his letter will focus their resentment on him for behaving so outrageously. I'd expect this back and forth condemnation and response will continue on for months and months, right up to the day permission for the pipeline is given. Why? Because the decision making process won't have changed one bit. In fact at this point it would be impossible to change it without Endbridge being able to demand some huge level of economic compensation.
BTW - Great response Elizabeth. Valid points all.

The pipeline whistleblower from Bechtel

I have been more worried about the potential for a shipping disaster, but now the quality of the pipeline itself could be called into doubt.
http://www.metronews.ca/ottawa/canada/article/1062722--keystone-whistleblower-says-pipeline-shoddy

http://journalstar.com/news/opinion/editorial/columnists/mike-klink-keystone-xl-pipeline-not-safe/article_4b713d36-42fc-5065-a370-f7b371cb1ece.html

Good links, judycross!

Which brings to mind a significant omission in all this hubbub - namely, why isn't a significant trust account being established to deal with a worst case scenario for the inevitable spill and consequences - said trust account to be paid into before profits, bonuses, dividend, et al?

Should the cancellation of projects be streamlined?

Consider the conclusion of Oliver's remarks:

"" … We believe reviews for major projects can be accomplished in a quicker and more streamlined fashion. We do not want projects that are safe, generate thousands of new jobs and open up new export markets, to die in the approval phase due to unnecessary delays. …"

Isn't he assuming that the review will result in the approval of the project? Isn't he further assuming that the project is safe? Could the minister have been any more direct in stating that he sees the review as a formality to be rubber-stamped?

I don't think he payed any attention to the oath of office when he was sworn in as minister, since he is shameful derelict in executing the duties of the Minister of Natural Resources.

Thank you Tyee and Andrew

Thank you Tyee and Andrew Nikiforuk for the Enbridge Dirty Dozen list of spills and related charges, July 2010.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/07/31/EnbridgeDirtyDozen/

Let's keep it by the phone for calling talk shows, and wave it at potential butt kissers of all stripes and levels.

Good work, folks!

Corporate PR stretch

Oh my, how the lies and fantasies grow. Gobble it up, those with blind greed or no brains.

Embridge leaders claim that their new technologies would result in major pipeline spill chances of "infinitely small" or "one in 15,000 years".

Ha, ha, ha. Never mind the modern record, the oldest, still functioning institution is the Roman christian church, roughly 2,000 years old.

Anything older (and much younger), Babylonian, Greek, south or east Asian, central and South American or African structures mostly lay in ruin.

Those Roman aquaducts were built from solid stone with only water running through them, yet a very few are still functional.

Given the now considerable geological research that shows the Cascadia subduction zone moves violently, roughly every 300 to 600 years (observations of 18 events recorded from about the past 10,000 years), the last being in 1700 A.D., resulting in magnitude 9 and higher earthquakes that, not if, but WILL occur some time between tomorrow and a couple of hundred years hence,

This event, when it occurs relatively soon compared to Embridge timelines, will require all emergency services available for human survival, while the difficult to access tar crud spouts out, possibly for months or longer.

Please don't try to spin us into believing that the pipelines will not be breached in such an event, or that any or even all oil corporations combined would be prepared to minimize the spills, or worse yet, take any responsibility. ("Act of God")

At least, coal is solid and LNG will evaporate. Communities and ecosystems might recover over a few years, but not in the vicinity of that toxic goo.

Puppets

Harper is not a Prime Minister, he is a corporate puppet. His parties logic "ties you up and rapes you".

Isn't he further assuming that the project is safe?

And it is - for the shareholders, senior management, the board of directors (who are all that count), and who will very likely never set foot in BC, never mind the north.

Regional differences poorly addressed

Good grief, the mayor of Edson, Alberta favours the Northern Gateway for his community. Nothing new there.

Under TILMA, Albertans win some great, albeit temporary, jobs

Nonetheless, when did a substantial earthquake hit Edson? Such could reverse this pro, cross B.C. pipeline attitude.

Geographical landscape-human interactions separate Albertan's from BCer's viewpoints. The mountains are distant from Calgary and much moreso Edmonton and Ft. McMurray. Open prairie thinking.

As to Ontario and the solid Canadian Shield or mostly flat St Lawrence lowlands... BCers tend to have a more vertical and coastal sense.

This all plays into how the nation and world are viewed. What's reasonable or desirable to Albertans (including our P.M.) is often unacceptable to BCers.

Likewise first hand understandings of economic-tech projects regarding earthquakes, landslides, avalanches, spring thaw flooding regimes, all in varying topographies. (Consider the terrain those pipelines may pass through-nothing like most of Alberta)

Those MP reps in Ottawa are shoved into a one size fits all model, currently a very prairie, resource oriented one, that does not well serve other regions.

And Harper can never be another MacDonald Conservative national unifier, seems to be rather opposite, the divider in order to accomodate corporate (many foreign) ends.

Although BC should have prime influence on what passes through it, under our system it will probably be determined by Ottawa.

This is where those big corporations step in to overrule local and regional visions. Nfld. and maritime fisheries, prairie wheat board, Ontario-Quebec manufacturing, BC wild salmon and herring fisheries, etc., all sold off or shut down.

How to make more people aware of this in a meaningful way and alter or reverse that monocultural course is the big question.

Just perhaps the Northern Gateway review may help to open people's eyes to the need for local and regional decision making importance over federal and corporate control.