Oh My!

The head of the HST Information Office was asked to comment on the referendum question. So? Would anyone not expect at least a comment from the head of the office?

Don't worry Skywalker, it will be a wash. I've spoken with a few people that have small businesses and they have no idea what is, was, will be, won't be, taxable under PST, GST or HST, as well as the status of ITCs. The level of, I don't really want to say it but it is, ignorance is astounding.

I can't agree that it was planned. It's always, for me, been a referendum on extinguishing the HST - yes or no.

With these sample surveys it does make one wonder if the California example of government by referendum is such a wonderful idea. It's worth remembering that over 90% of us are not passionate about policy details and simply will not take the time to absorb all the details. We live in a 'sound bite' and 'snappy headline' world.

This whole thing is a

This whole thing is a crock... If Campbell and the libs were honest they would of mentioned it during last election campaign and as well let the people vote on it last year with a simple yes or no question not a question where yes means no and no means yes....Sit is set up to pass and keep hst..contrary to popular belief we do not live in a democracy...

I and 7 other friends have requested ballots a second and third time, we have all voted last time and yet we still have not received them, elections BC blames Canada post..what a sham...I wonder how many people won't or did not get ballots?

I wouldn't be a bit

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Canada Post, under Harper's direction, orchestrated the lock-out of the postal workers at a time that would most interupt the mailing of the referendum.

I'm starting to see boogy men in everything our governments do and say these days. The sad thing is I am probably right to.

Same old...

This vote will 'show' that BC wants the HST. It was rigged to ensure that outcome. The deceitful manipulation of this government, that we all know so well, continues to thrive today. These people need to be voted out of office...so that honest democracy can once again be practiced in our provincial legislature. We ALL know that. I am sick and tired of being ripped off by business and their puppets in Victoria.

Hundreds of people have told us

that they ordered ballots a couple of weeks ago and they haven't arrived and/or tried to get through on the EBC numbers to register, again and again, and couldn't. My advice to anyone now who didn't get the opportunity to vote is to send an email of complaint to Elections BC at

and copy it to Christy Clark at

and Adrian Dix, leader of the Opposition at

You still won't get the chance to vote, but your complaint won't disappear into thin air and if enough people complain.......

agree with Karen D

Governments in power for too long forget why they are there. Time for a change

One example of silliness.

Who uses the word "extinguish" unless it is in the context of putting out a fire. The wording of the ballot should have been a simple, are you in favor of the HST, yes or no. But oh now they had to come up with something that would confuse those less schooled in Canada.

We don't set policy by referendum in this country. This is an example of a government so arrogant that the people had no other choice. But the manipulation of the exercise by the BC Liberals is beyond belief. This manipulation was deliberate as was the decision about going to a mail-in ballot.

Reminds Me...

... of 1990's BC NDP cabinet minister Dave Zirnhelt who said "We are government and the government can do whatever it wants."

And the same crew is present in the BC NDP today.... from disgraced NDP party prez Moe Sihota to "fake memo" party leader Dix.

Sounds like people here wanna go from the frying pan back into the fire. haha

One must wonder

All those ballots that didn't get delivered, where did they go? Did more of them "not get delivered" in ridings where the Liberals have a poor following? These numbers can be checked by having a simple forensic audit of the referendum results. What do you think would happen if it were found out that the vote was in fact rigged?

@ Cool Hand

so an NDP cabinet minister makes a stupid comment in the 1990s and the Liberal party gets a free ride for the next 20 years?

HST

It will be a very good surprise if the HST will be cancelled but I'm not holding my breath. This mail in ballots is rigged and who do we know who is counting those ballots and who is supervising. The results will be: to keep the tax and it will be no way of proving that it was rigged. This is the state of our province: bunch of corrupt people getting money from big business and doing nothing for the people of BC. It will not change as long as the liberals are in power. It goes for the federal government also.

@ Cool Hand

The first bill passed in the legislature is a bill called something like "The Supremacy Of Parliament Act". Check it out. Then remember that when talking about a remark made by a former minister. Also let's see if you can find actions of that government that compare in arrogance and deceit to the current one.

I have to wonder

What would be the legal consequences of an outright fraud committed by some Liberal entity to stack this referendum? Could the Liberals get away with trivializing such? How would the fallout differ from that incurred with electoral fraud?

Could a provincial government be toppled over referendum fraud or would this simply constitute a legal misdemeanor of little consequence?

So low is my trust of the BC Liberals that I have no doubt they have explored the legal limits and stepped right up to the line and then some.

Born to Lose

The BC Liberals' biggest dilemma, and the reason why virtually none of them wants an election anytime soon (Christy's early election promise aside), is the public's growing distrust of them. Indeed, many suspect that they chose the dubious mail-in ballot because its veracity is nearly impossible to confirm. It seems the more we find out about it, the more our suspicions are confirmed. Therefore, if there's any vote-rigging going on, it will be to engineer a narrow rejection of the HST because that's the only outcome that can, in some way, refute their reputation for dishonesty, at least in the sense that it would disappoint the expectations of many that the government would do anything to save the HST. The reasoning will go like this: 'We BC Liberals have stated unequivocally that we are for the HST, so its rejection is proof that we didn't rig the vote [we aren't dishonest after all.]' That would seem a plausible remedy to their sullied reputation only if an election is called soon after.

But I have a hunch that they want to use the HST's rejection as an excuse to avoid an early election by manufacturing an "economic crisis," no time, they'll say, to be distracted by a campaign. It'll be a win-win-win for them: demonstrate a little good-sportsmanship by "losing," shift the blame for the economic mess onto the voters and, most importantly, buy some time.

Metacomet.

There is a fly in the ointment. The financial accounts will have to come out at some point and if the only thing that saves the Liberals arses is the cash cow of the HST it will again confirm that it was on their radar before the last election. They needed the cash to bail themselves out of the impending financial disaster. Some of it will depend on the election campaign the other parties run but I can't believe that after these shenanigans that the other parties won't be taking off the gloves concerning this "outright fraud". .

The HST and Harper's Majority Win

Quote: "I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Canada Post, under Harper's direction, orchestrated the lock-out of the postal workers at a time that would most interupt the mailing of the referendum." ~Karen D.

It wouldn't surprise me either, Karen, though I also wouldn't be a bit surprised that Harper's manipulations go even deeper.

Harper never wanted to win a majority more than in the past federal election. He needed to pull extra seats in BC - that would result in those needed gains in the West that would help to ensure his much-desired majority win.

How better than with the cooperation of his old friend Gordon Campbell and the very handy-dandy implementation of the HST?

Since most people aren't paying attention and are not aware that the BC Liberals and the Harper Conservatives share the same values and policies, (both extremist parties of the right, both reborn from a Socred-Reform coalition)....well, how convenient is it that the furor over the HST enables the 'Liberal' brand to be severely marked down just before a federal election?

Those all important voters of the center, mad at the HST, and wanting to shift their vote would vote Conservative federally before they would vote NDP. The NDP would hold their own in BC, but the Conservatives would gain votes from the center-right disgruntled with the HST brought in under a supposed but bogus BC 'Liberal' brand - which is, in reality, not liberal in any shape and form but as extreme right as they come.

The even more surprising election results show Harper doesn't even need Quebec anymore to gain a majority.

With 'the help' of the Campbell government imposed HST and the cool climate it created for the 'Liberal' brand in BC, Harper pulls those extra needed seats in the West - and the always cooperative Mr. C takes one for the team, and comes through once again for Stevie....and is duly rewarded for this, and for so many other services rendered.... Hello London town!

Thanks for all your hard work and effort in finding out this info, Bob Mackin, and thanks too, for The Tyee for publishing it.

That other mail in referendum

All we have to do is cast our minds back to 2002 when Gordon Campbell subjected the rights of a minority, BC First Nations, to a referendum of the majority to get "direction" for treaty negotiations.

The questions were poorly phrased and slanted the outcomes to reflect the ideology of the Campbell Liberals.

The only thing that's changed is the face of the right wing.

Voting by Mail

In Oregon all voting is done by mail.

The U.S. state of Oregon established vote-by-mail as the standard mechanism for voting with Ballot Measure 60, a citizen's initiative, in 1998. The measure made Oregon the first state in the United States to conduct its elections exclusively by mail. The measure passed on November 3, 1998, by a margin of 69.4% to 30.6%.

Freedom of information!

The referendum is rigged as far as I'm concerned. So lets use the freedom of information act to get the goods to prove that the fix was in. I have strongly believed that most of those who don't care about the HST will not vote, those who are against it will vote and those who are for it will assume that it is a fait accomli and so most wont vote. The yes vote should win handily! Otherwise means only one thing?

Sure R/man

But do they ask the questions in the same way to confuse? Do they spend millions on a dishonest campaign? Do they peddle lies?.And finally, is Oregon in B.C. so we should do as they do?

I'm sorry everyone

but if so many registered voters allegedly can't properly understand 'vote yes to get rid of the hst' then we deserve what we get.

Are you telling me that scores of people in this province can't read?

Damned if you do Damned if you don't

I'm disappointed there wasn't an option to scrap the whole tax, I for one am feeling a little over taxed these days. I'm also disappointed at this whole process. I signed the petition, not because I was necessarily against the HST but I was against how it was implemented, and now I'm angry with how they are choosing to implement the referendum, the wording is confusing, and there have been problems receiving the ballots. I have lived in my apartment for the last 5 years, I've received my last tax return here a just after the strike, and I have received voter cards for federal and provincial elections, but for the HST it wasn't me who received a ballot, but the former resident who hasn't received any government mail since I've lived here. Makes me wonder if it's all on purpose.

IS THER FRAUD IN THE GOVERNMENT ADS FOR THE HST??

Where have the stickman ads and the smart tax alliance ads gone?? Bill V asked for a ruling on the legality of the ads being run on tv, radio and signs on the streets. He asked elections BC to rule on their legality under the elections act. Has Craig James told the Government to pull the ads until he (James) makes a ruling on their legality or has he (James)told the Government to pull the ads so that Elections BC does not have to make a ruling one way or the other?? The silence is just deafening.

I wonder why we have become raving cynics?

I must admit that a decade of BC Liberals has definitely turned me into a raving cynic. I have absolutely no trust in them after all of the shananigans that have been pulled on us. I would really like to know the intracacies of the counting process of the ballots that actually did make it to the voters and back for counting. If they can alter the outcome in any way they can, I don't doubt that they will. This is the type of thing you expect from a 3rd world dictatorship,... oops sorry, is that what we have here?

I wonder why Deputy Attorney General David Loukidelis recommendations were censored? Clearly something that the Liberals didn't want to get out that would feed the opposition to the HST. The only Liberal that has been honest about the HST was Carole Taylor, after she jumped ship.

HST muddle

There are the missing ballots, plenty of them, there is the lack of staff at Elections BC to deal with the flood of requests on the final days before the phone lines shut down, there is uttter confusion about the deadline for return of the ballot. First it was July, then it was August and Elections BC relied on a few TV ads to let us know of the new date. ( I never saw one of them.)
Someone should at least be collecting data on those who wanted to vote, could not get through to Elections BC or had a ballot but did not know of the new date for its return.

We need that data, we need to know just how badly we have been scammed.

Forms

My wife and I moved to Vernon in 2005. All of our mail comes to this address. We have been through several elections, census, all of our bills, drivers' license, etc, etc. We had not received our ballots for the referandum so we called elections BC and were informed our ballots had been sent to Victoria, our old address. We went through the process of informing Elections BC about all of the above. It would appear to no avail. So, we called again before the deadline and went through the process all over again, with the same result. Now, we cannot participate in the referandum because of the incompetence of Electios BC to ensure everyone received a ballot. I have no idea what my recourse is, but I am contacting an attorney to see if I have any options. If I do have legal option, you can rest assured that I will be exploring them. It's my legal right to vote in this country.I am a veteran who served to ensure everyone had those rights. Now I have someone in Victoria interfering with that right.