Opinion

'Too Asian?' Why I Don't Accept the Apology by Maclean's

Its editors clearly don't get what everyone is upset about. As a child of Hong Kong immigrants, let me explain.

By Vivian Luk, 3 Dec 2010, TheTyee.ca

Journalist Vivian Luk

Writer Luk: 'People like me.'

Text size:

Rate this:

Login/Register

Related

  • 'But Where Are You Really From?'

    Some Canadians get asked that all the time. Here's how that feels, in their own words.

  • Terrorism: Today’s ‘Yellow Peril’?

    Author Roy Miki studied the official language that stripped his Japanese Canadian family of rights. He sees lessons for today.

  • Dumpster Diving to Afford UBC

    Why must some UBC international students work illegal jobs and sift garbage for food? Answer: To afford tuition many times higher than paid by their richer Canadian fellow students. Some ask: Is this an ethical way to run a global university?

After more than two weeks of uproar about its controversial and provocative article titled, "'Too Asian?'", Maclean's published an apology.

If that piece, "Merit: the best and only way to decide who gets into university; We find the trend toward race-based admissions policies in some U.S. schools to be deplorable," published on Nov. 25 is a complete and accurate reflection of the editorial staff's sentiments, then it is obvious that they don't actually understand what everyone is upset about, and they don't know why they are apologizing.

In a forum that discussed "Too Asian?", hosted by the University of British Columbia last week, history professor and panelist Henry Yu stressed that the Asian-Canadians who are hurt the most by this article are not necessarily the people who just recently immigrated from China, India, the Philippines and so on. The people who are most insulted and saddened are the ones who tried all their lives to fit in and be accepted by Canadian society, he said.

People like me.

My family and I moved here from Hong Kong 20 years ago, but unlike me, my parents never fully embraced Canada. My mother never learned to speak English beyond the basics that would get her through Save-on-Foods or the mall, and she most certainly would not understand a word I wrote here. Like most satellite families, my parents saw their time in Vancouver as a transition phase. They were going to stay here for as long as it takes their children to grow up and graduate from university. Then they would return to their home country, where they would once again be around people who talked, walked and looked like them.

I was different. I wanted only to be considered Canadian, for reasons I'm not quite sure I understand. It is also a decision whose wisdom can be disputed. But when asked, "Where are you really from?", I always answer, "Vancouver." I speak perfect, unaccented English. I grew up listening to the Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls on Z95.3 (now Virgin Radio), and watching Friends on TV. You know, things that "white" kids do.

No way to avoid being slotted

Most of my choices had to do with where I grew up and the people I hung out with. My high school was composed almost entirely of students from Asian origins -- Chinese (from mainland China and Hong Kong), Taiwanese, Indian, Vietnamese. Many were quite proud of where they came from (there was a lot of "Asian pride" and rivalry between the different "Asians" going on -- more about that later). But it wasn't like they always went around deliberately asserting their various Asian-ness. Everyone spoke English. They studied all subjects (including math and science, yes), and they participated in sports teams and dances and did volunteer work. And for those who wanted to go to university, they studied hard to get in. Just like everyone else, regardless of skin colour.

But what the Maclean's article did was tell people who are labeled "Too Asian" that despite their hard work, and their desire to fit in at Canadian schools and in Canadian society, they have never been accepted. Instead, they have been slotted into the usual racial stereotypes. The article tells them they have been grudgingly tolerated at best, and openly resented at worst.

That is what the angry outbursts are about, and the more than 2,000 comments by readers left on the Maclean's website reflect this. They are not angry because, as Maclean's believes, the magazine implied that Canadian universities have "abandoned merit as the basis for admission for more racially significant -- and racist -- criteria" like their American counterparts. No. They are outraged because the authors' use of (anonymous) sources, quotes and a condescending tone implied that Asian students are a threat to white students, that they don't belong because they have not assimilated to Canadian culture (and by that, the authors meant the culture of drinking and partying) and that the only image they will ever be associated with is the one of a black hair, yellow-skinned kid who studies too hard, is socially awkward and only hangs out with other Asian kids.

Condescension and anonymous racism

Speaking as a Chinese-Canadian, a student from UBC (a school that was mentioned in the article) and a journalist, there are so many things wrong with this article, it took me some time to figure out what I was really upset about.

First, the framing of the story was condescending and racist. Maclean's wrote on Thursday, "through hard work, talent and ambition, Asian students have been highly successful in earning places in Canada's institutions of higher learning. They, like all of our high achievers, deserve respect and admiration. Every one of them is a source of pride to their fellow Canadians." But if the intent was to commend Asian students for their hard work and to praise merit-based admissions in Canadian universities, their article, "Too Asian?" indicated otherwise.

Authors Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Kohler quoted two sources who were evidently too afraid to disclose their surnames (and using anonymous sources who are not in life-threatening danger is already unprofessional). The two girls said that Asians tend to go to universities such as the University of Toronto, "a school with an academic reputation that can be a bit of a killjoy" and with a "reputation of being Asian."

"Too Asian" is not about racism, the girls insist. It is just that white students believe "competing with Asians -- both Asian Canadians and international students -- requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they're not willing to make. They complain that they can't compete for spots in the best schools and can't party as much as they'd like (too bad for them, most will say)."

Certainly, sources have the liberty to say what they wish, but so too do reporters have the authority to choose quotes that they feel would illuminate the story. Here, Findlay and Kohler used quotes that attribute blame to Asian students for making it difficult to get into university. Moreover, "Alexandra" and "Rachel" implied that being "Too Asian" meant students study so hard, they have no fun.

That leads to the stereotyping. First, the use of the term "Asian" is already problematic. If readers were to take for granted the students who were interviewed in this article, they would think that all Asians are ethnic Chinese. Not once did the authors quote students from Indian, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Malaysian or Cambodian descent. Needless to say, these students can be as different from each other as "white" students from English, French, Italian, German, or Ukrainian heritage are to each other.

Perpetuating divisive stereotypes

Furthermore, in the article, so-called experts stated that Asian students are "strivers, high achievers and single-minded in their approach to university," that they only major in science and math, and that they focus so much on their studies, they have no time to join clubs and develop social skills. White students, on the other hand, are more fun-loving, athletic and social. Of course, stereotypes never occur in a vacuum; they are often based on a certain degree of truth and there may be plenty of people who fit those two general images. But what about the ones who don't? Where are they in this story? By using such crude assumptions, this article not only perpetuates misconceptions about both whites and Asians, the dichotomy suggests that separation between people of different races is the norm.

This leads to a conversation about why stereotypes get used in Canadian mainstream media. It is no secret that the brevity of the news cycle and the industry's deadline structure often leads journalists to rely on oversimplified assumptions rather than to dig deeper into an issue. It also has to do with the fact that those who make decisions in the newsroom have not committed to preparing news that is fair, accurate, sensitive and representative of Canada's changing demographics. Many lack reporters from minority communities who can speak the language, understand the customs, and discover stories that are meaningful to those communities. Moreover, as Minelle Mahtani, associate professor of geography at U of T and the founding director of the Centre for Innovation in Diversity and Journalism, wrote in The Globe and Mail, "Journalists report the way they do in part because of the way they're trained at journalism schools. Most journalism professors were trained years ago. When you have journalists teaching the next generation about old-school journalism, with the same frames and unchecked biases, the result can be old, tired stories."

UBC student William Tao also makes a good point: "Often times, we ourselves, as Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Persians, are the biggest perpetrators of the 'Too Asian' stereotype," he said at the UBC panel on Wednesday. Tao admitted that he deliberately avoided studying sciences and engineering because he thought they were "too Asian."

Several years ago, one of the Chinese student clubs on the UBC campus created an ad campaign that ridiculed other Chinese clubs for being "too Chinese" -- their members were too studious, too socially awkward, and speak English with an accent because they were mostly new immigrants. The members of the first club, on the other hand, were depicted as being more "cool" -- equally hardworking and bright, but also outgoing, witty, sociable and mostly Canadian-born. Thinking back to my high school years, those differentiations between Asian groups certainly existed and continue to exist. Vietnamese kids where the ones who wore a lot of Kappa sportswear and had gold streaks in their hair, and Canadian-born Chinese were different from Hong Kong-born Chinese, who were different from those born in mainland China, and so on.

Therefore, I think Wong makes a valid point when he said, "Until we begin to embrace our own identities and differences, we cannot expect any different from others who may not know the difference between Taipei, Beijing, or even in my case, Victoria, B.C, and instead see us as a sea of black hair and brown eyes."

Getting beyond self-segregation

If there is one thing I appreciate about the Maclean's article is that it touched upon the subject of self-segregation between different racial groups in Canadian universities. "Diversity has enriched these schools, but it has also put them at risk of being increasingly fractured along ethnic lines," wrote Findlay and Kohler. "It's a superficial form of multiculturalism that is expressed in the main through segregated, self-selecting discrete communities."

In my opinion, Findlay and Kohler are absolutely right, but it is this segregation that allows the stereotypes that they employed in their story to prevail. UBC president Stephen Toope has observed that despite a diverse student body where 43 per cent are ethnically Chinese, Korean or Japanese, the different cultural groups rarely connect with each other. Concerned, Toope recently hired former manager of diversity initiatives at CBC Television, Alden Habacon, to be the director of intercultural understanding strategy development at UBC. Habacon's job is to devise mechanisms and opportunities for people on campus to interact and better understand each other rather than exist in separate enclaves.

"The challenge at UBC is, how do you get all of this diversity to be meaningful to each other... in such a way that if you were a student going to UBC, after four, five or 10 years on campus, you walk away and you've somehow internalized an intercultural sophistication that you wouldn't have gotten not going to UBC?" Habacon said in an interview. "Why it's important is because I think that is the difference between multiculturalism producing ethnic enclaves, as opposed to actually enriching society."

For Habacon, what occurs at UBC, and what could possibly occur in terms of cultural integration could have implications for demographic change and social cohesion in Canada.

"The difference between a multiculturalism model that failed versus a multiculturalism model that actually excels is that there is a greater sense of how people live together, a greater acknowledgement of each others' differences and there's a greater ability to walk away and say we are obviously disagreeing, but it doesn't mean we can't be compassionate towards each other," he said. "Otherwise, all we've done is basically said, 'Yeah, you can do your own thing, but stay within your own boundaries.'"

As I think once again about why Maclean's article upset me so much, I realize it is because of more than the racism, the stereotyping and the poor journalism ethics. It's the fact that publishing such an article illustrates that it's okay to pit one group against another in a country that prides itself for implementing multiculturalism as a policy 40 years ago. So what disappoints me the most is the article's underlying message (whether it is the authors' intentions or not): multiculturalism has failed. [Tyee]

Vivian Luk has written for The Globe and Mail and the Vancouver Sun and is completing a master's degree in the University of British Columbia's school of journalism.

33 Comments:

Login or register to post comments

  • warbler

    1 year ago

    Tempest in a teapot

    Ms. Luk, I submit the reason you are offended by the Maclean's article has less to do with the facts and more to do with your own misinterpretation or personalization of those facts.

    I read the full article, as well as the extraordinary clarification issued by the editors. In my opinion, the magazine has nothing to apologize for. It was a rather benign piece of journalism.

    The facts are these:

    1. The demographics on Canadian campuses are changing.

    2. Student and university reaction to those changing demographics is an inevitable happening, and some of that reaction is bound to be racially charged.

    3. The Maclean's journalists responsible for the article capture these first two facts.

    Is the tone condescending in the article, sections of which which you cherry pick out? Maybe. Maybe not. Is the tone racist? I think not.

    The real interesting questions within the demographic shifts seem lost on the two Maclean's journalists, and for that I fault them for be shallow, not racist. For me, I would love to see a deeper exploration of why these demographic shifts are happening, how they are happening and what can we learn from them. There's some really interesting sociology of education stuff happening here, and further probing could tell us more about not just race, culture, class and education, but it could tell us more about ourselves.

    The original title of the article seems to be the source of much of the outcry, but the context is lost if you miss the punctuation and the fact the authors lifted those two words from the title of a National Association for College Admission Counseling panel discussion (USA).

    The experience in the US with universities racially profiling admissions is a different kettle than Canada's meritocratic ways, which the Maclean's journalists go out of their way to point out.

    Surely, this article was aimed to tease and sell magazines, not inflame a debate on racism. Tell me there are more important hills to defend when it comes to the ugly face of racism in our society or on campus.

  • Jeffrey J.

    1 year ago

    Rogers Communications Owns McLeans

    The owner of McLeans has a lot to answer for. Run by super WASPY Captains of Canadian Industry (including reps from Barrick Gold, Besseco Holdings, big Canadian law firms, Woodbridge, etc).

    The intolerant racism of Upper Canada runs very deep. It ain't over yet.

    "Following the death of Ted Rogers, control of Rogers communications passed to the Rogers Control Trust, a trust for which a subsidiary of Scotiabank serves as trustee. The trust exercises control of the company for the benefit of current and future generations of the Rogers family. Ted's son Edward Rogers III and daughter Melinda Rogers serve, respectively, as chair and vice-chair of the trust."

    Current members of the board of directors of Rogers Communications are:
    Peter Godsoe, O.C – Lead Director
    Ronald Besse – President, Besseco Holdings Inc.
    Charles William David Birchall – Vice Chairman, Barrick Gold Corporation
    John H. Clappison, FCA – Company Director
    Alan D. Horn, C.A. – Chairman & Acting CEO, Rogers Communications Inc. and President/CEO Rogers Telecommunications Limited
    Thomas I. Hull – Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, The Hull Group Inc.
    Philip B. Lind, C.M. – Vice Chairman, Rogers Communications Inc.
    Nadir Mohamed, CA – President and Chief Operating Officer, Communications Group, Rogers Communications Inc.
    The Hon. David Peterson, P.C., Q.C. – Senior Partner, Cassels Brock & Blackwell
    Edward S. Rogers – President, Rogers Cable Inc.
    Loretta Rogers – Company Director
    Melinda M. Rogers – Senior Vice President, Strategy and Development, Rogers Communications Inc.
    William T. Schleyer – President and Chief Executive Officer, Adelphia Communications Corp.
    John A. Tory, Q.C. – Director, The Woodbridge Company Limited
    J. Christopher C. Wansbrough – Chairman, Rogers Telecommunications Limited
    Colin Watson – Company Director

  • MJK

    1 year ago

    Good article

    And you tackle a big bunch of issues, all of which need talking about. So, good on you just for that.

    I particularly liked your ID-ing that 'easy journalism' that was practiced in the Macleans article (and just about everywhere else, for that matter).

  • leilanieliza

    1 year ago

    Wonderful, but oof the grammar...

    I loved you article, it was informative and to the point. Very well done!

    However speaking as another Journalism student, and I know I'm being super nit-picky here (and I'm sorry!), some of the awkward grammatical errors such as random shifts in verb tense made me want to stop reading. "Wong makes a valid point when he said," for instance, or the misuse of "quotes" for "quotations," among many other little things. Come on, Tyee editors, pick it up please.

  • Cel

    1 year ago

    "The people who are most

    "The people who are most insulted and saddened are the ones who tried all their lives to fit in and be accepted by Canadian society, he said.

    People like me."

    I am an ethnic Asian that lived in Vancouver since I was 3 (now 22) and I found this stereotype to be offensive. You see, I agreed with the article and am very annoyed by the articles that condemn it without actually refuting its points.

    Therefore, because I do not fit the stereotype that you portray, your entire piece is now invalid.

    My first paragraph was not sarcasm, but truth. The second paragraph is of course sarcastic, though you seem to believe that it is a valid argument.

    For the allegations of racism, it is not racist to point out that there are students who hold racist attitudes.

    As for the stereotypes, a stereotype is not a stereotype if it can be proved as fact.

    If I said that someone who committed suicide was probably male, that would be a stereotype according to you. Yet it is an undeniable and proven fact, as the suicide rates for men are 3, 4, 5, or even more times higher than for women.

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)

    You yourself admit that the "stereotypes" of social segregation by race are in fact true, yet then turn around and condemn Maclean's for perpetuating "the usual racial stereotypes."

    This dishonesty is extremely irritating. If something is true, then it is true. Denying it is insanity.

  • Piker

    1 year ago

    How's that thesis coming?

    What a great way to put off writing your thesis. Set a straw man, bat around a few red herrings, and voila: two weeks futher away from graduation! Isn't university fun?

  • carioca

    1 year ago

    racism is alive and well

    I have "canadians" friends that keep calling immigrants "those people". They say that right in front of me like it is not offensive at all. I live in Canada for more than 30 years, I came from Brasil and my grandparents were Greek and lebanese. I came here alone with my son and made my life in Canada. I'm a canadian citizen. My friends gets surprise when I mention that I'm an immigrant and they always say: oh ye, but you are different, you don't look like "those people" that comes into our country and we have to pay for them. It infureates me but I learn to let it go because they do not understand that they are racist, pure and simple. It reminds me the time of Hitler when he decided that blonde e blue eyes were the pure race and everybody else was inferior. Lots os Canadians and Americans are the same: they thing they are a superior race and anybody that looks different is an inferior race. Because of this attitude, mostly immigrants has a tendency to stay with their own groups to avoid the racism. I chosed differently, I fight and I don't mince words when it comes to discrimination and pure racism.

  • Ricky

    1 year ago

    On the other hand...

    Who cares? It's MacLeans, they've been unreadable for years now. I'm surprised anyone even noticed - did everyone have a dentist's appointment that week?

  • Yeoman

    1 year ago

    Refreshing

    To see some reality reflected in this story rather than the knee-jerk PC-ism of the one by Price. An interesing perspective on the issue. The contrast between the author's parents' attitudes towards Canada and her own really illustrates a significant source of conflict commonly framed, albeit erroneously IMO, as "racism".

  • Snowrunner

    1 year ago

    Point of View?

    "Certainly, sources have the liberty to say what they wish, but so too do reporters have the authority to choose quotes that they feel would illuminate the story. Here, Findlay and Kohler used quotes that attribute blame to Asian students for making it difficult to get into university. Moreover, "Alexandra" and "Rachel" implied that being "Too Asian" meant students study so hard, they have no fun."

    I read the article but I took something entirely different away from it than most people it seems:

    Instead of seeing this as a bad mark on the Asian community I found the quote by the "white people" rather a sad showing on how they perceive the world.

    Instead of seeing this as a condemnation the quote by the kids that they didn't want to attend UofT or UBC because the competition was too fierce as a declaration of the "whites" that they are just not cut out for the world.

    I am not Canadian, I grew up in Europe, and yes, I am white so maybe my outlook on this is a bit different. But again, my take away was more a shaking of the head towards the white kids who seem to make partying a priority over actually working.

    If I noticed any insult in the article it was the sense of entitlement that these white kids seem to have and then unload it onto an identifiable group without even realizing how clueless and selfish they come across in the process.

  • Snowrunner

    1 year ago

    Gah

    Should have prove read:

    "Instead of seeing this as a condemnation the quote by the kids that they didn't want to attend UofT or UBC because the competition was too fierce as a declaration of the "whites" that they are just not cut out for the world."

    Should have read:

    "Instead of seeing the statements by the kids that they didn't want to attend UofT or UBC because the competition was too fierce as a black mark on the Asian community, I see it as a declaration of the "whites" that they are just not cut out for the world."

  • Ren2

    1 year ago

    Exploring 'Satallite Families'

    I think your one comment about "satellite families" highlights an important issue that colours a larger part of this debate than it first appears.

    Canadian multiculturalism is based upon the premise that both sides negotiate common ground in how the different members interact and move forward together and then explore the differences between each others way of doing things (what benefit something brings, what negative issues it may bring). But it is very hard to open our doors to people who are not willing to participate in this; people that do the minimum possible to get by and then segregate themselves in their own community. The segregation and resulting isolation highlight the differences in a negative way; preventing the two groups from working together. It also undermines one of the main tenets of multiculturalism - the better you know someone the less likely you are to harm them.

    Because multiculturalism is a constant negotiation between sides, it doesn't always go smoothly, but as long as we stick to the core tenets of negotiating common ground so that you can exploring differences in a safe way we're on track to the multicultural long-term goal.

    I've lived in Vancouver for several years now, and I do have to say that I find it very difficult and somewhat insulting to live with people who are here for the benefits of our society but not willing to participate in it. Sadly, it makes me feel used, and thus angry.

  • funniously

    1 year ago

    Huh?!

    Ms. Luk, you seem to have completely missed the point of the Maclean's article. You state: "If there is one thing I appreciate about the Maclean's article is that it touched upon the subject of self-segregation between different racial groups in Canadian universities."

    The article didn't just "touch on" this subject --it was the whole point of the article! The stereoypes you decry were uttered by students when asked by the authors what factors went into their choice of school.

    Your anger at stereotyping may be valid, but you've directed at the wrong subject. Better brush up on your reading comprehension skills and lose the chip on your shoulder if you want to develop into a proper journalist on these issues.

  • marlonbrando

    1 year ago

    You can't have it both ways

    Some time ago my Asian friend was at a party speaking to another Asian friend about a volleyball tournement called the Asian Invitational. http://tfcvolleyball.com/indoor/asian2011.html

    They are both born in Canada and as Canadian as I am.

    I asked if I could play and was politely told no, because I am white.

    Imagine the uproar if there was a Caucasian Volleyball Invitational where only people of European descent were allowed to play?

  • dorothy

    1 year ago

    You want to talk unprofessional?

    Then I would say that putting your own personal story into such a discussion is a cheap shot! What are you imagining? That somehow people's natural desire to be considerate should protect you against them answering according to how they honestly feel about the quality of argument you present? Unh-uh. Not this customer!

    In short, your parents should have been deported back to where they came from. At the bottom of immigrant visas, the small print says: 'This document does not guarantee you entry into Canada. If a customs and immigrations officer feels you may have come to Canada for another purpose than making it your home, they may deny you entry.'

    So your parents came in order to use Canada and Canadians as a temporary 'substrate' for the betterment of their children, after which they would go back to the country they still considered home. This was a messy decision to make, for you obviously now have trouble deciding where you belong.

    "stereotypes never occur in a vacuum; they are often based on a certain degree of truth and there may be plenty of people who fit those two general images. But what about the ones who don't? Where are they in this story?"

    Not there. This 'story' is about trends and broad outlines, not about nitpicking exceptions to rules. The revolution has no use for sympathetic doctors, as Boris Pasternak had it, or, as a local journalist, one who knows the ropes said, 'pick one and be that'. You do not need compassion for your dilemma, but a reality check. We can all spend our lives trying to fit in - to what end? We will never that way discover who we are and what we have it in us to accomplish. Try to grow up a little. Youth is universal, does not stay within ethnic or racial boundaries, and you are so unmistakably young, no blame in that, but umpteen years from now, you will cringe at what you have written here. At least I hope you will.

    Canadian multiculturalism is a crock. What it means in practice is that in any given situation, one party will choke on its own obsequiousness in an attempt to be politically correct towards the other party. Or, a different scenario, which we all burble happily along with every so often, is the well-known eclectic hodge-podge, where no one really knows any more who they are, or used to be. As in the worst ads by United colors of Benetton. Of course none of this works. Be who you are, and let others do the same, and then we have a valid foundation for seeking common ground, of which there is still more than there is no-man's-land.

    Yes, I have been the only Caucasian shopper in the Crystal Mall and felt just fine, for one party having money she wants to part with, and the other having stuff to sell is miles of common ground right there. And you build on that for all you're worth. No merchant there gets as much as a fiver from me without an instruction in details of MY culture. Drops of water can cut through solid rock, in time...

  • Mathieu Y

    1 year ago

    Multi cultural

    I have constantly made the argument of exception against stereotypes to people who insist on telling me about the immigrants of this country coming here, not learning our language, culture, or customs, and segregating themselves in to isolated communities. These exceptions DO occur, and I have been lucky enough to gain perspective from close friends of mine willing to accept other cultures as equally as their own (as I have been with theirs).

    However, I live in Chinatown, Vancouver. I have been here for a year and attempted to have meaningful communications with oriental people about the common issues their culture face, most notably the illegality and genocidal approach to Falun Gong in China. In response? A pamphlet in english and a nod towards it. How can they feel so strongly about a subject to bring awareness to Canada, yet not be able to debate it personally?

    Moreover, my high school was made up almost entirely of immigrants and ethnic "minorities," yet rather than embrace other cultures, we acted bullish towards them and pretended that there was still a white majority culture. However, that was because the staff was nearly all caucasian canadians, and therefore the caucasian student body was almost always represented as a majority, which was false. Yet, the only way we could have become multicultural was for all the ethnic clubs (literally, chinese club, viatnemese club, manadarin speaking club, etc) to actually speak with us openly about their cultural viewpoints. Of course this never happened.

    It takes two sides to have a conversation. Otherwise, you're talking to a mirror and your opinions subsist in a vacuum, where stereotypes fill the void of real substance. I can only tell my side, of attempting to communicate with other cultures and being, mostly politely, ignored.

  • dorothy

    1 year ago

    Mathieu Y

    I'm glad you are willing to tackle this difficult, elusive issue so directly! Maybe you will clarify further a couple of your points?

    I am unsure of what it means to 'accept' another culture. I mean - how could you not, as it exists there right in front of your eyes, and you cannot discuss with practical reality.

    About the pretense that there is a 'white' majority culture here, and everyone must get with the program: I am not sure it is a pretense. Apart from those pieces of turf which the FNP have never ceded, and within which they therefore call the shots, the rest of Canada is governed by tradition and a set of institutions that come out of a background where 'white' people were in majority, namely the North-Western part of Europe and the British isles.

    While I can see the temptation of newcomers to be asking for things to be 'more like home', they must nevertheless face that 'home' was the place where they could not achieve whatever fulfillment of their dreams and wishes they come to Canada for. If we could make Canada into little China, where then would education tourists go for the better choices they now come here for? If we slap Sharia law into place here, where will people from the Islamic world go in order to feel more air under their wings? (pun intended). And so on. This argument is actually old and tired, but still true.

    I think we must stand up for who we used to be, and insist on some respect for that from people who come here. I am an immigrant myself. Never did it occur to me, that I had any call to take down any of what made Canada what it was, in the essential. Yes, you can advise and object to things that are demonstrably dysfunctional, but you do not start taking down the very foundations of the culture that has served well for many generations and made Canada a place where you wanted to live!

  • dorothy

    1 year ago

    the stuff beyond 3000 characters

    As for effecting dialogue: I believe you must be putting yourself out there. You cannot question people into opening up, particularly not in an area where harm-avoidance has been the only possible survival bid for a time. Maybe you think it sounds far-fetched, but you could technically be laying a trap, and possibly saying something for these people could cost somebody 'back there' dearly. I have been a labor relations-volunteer and had people from countries where labor leaders were shot down on street corners out of hand go completely ballistic with fear and jump through absurd hoops in order to distance themselves from me. That was certainly a lesson in cultural differences for me!

    Have you tried to share your own culture? I was fortunate enough that colleagues of varying backgrounds would tell me their kids were doing projects on my people's history in school, and my reaction was to bring them a few good books in English, which I had bought for my own children, who are born here and do not speak their 'mother tongue'. They then started asking me questions and also tell me more about their own background. It takes that you first establish that your questions are in no way condescending, and the best way is to start with telling about yourself and your people, to come out as genuinely sharing.

  • chaoticallyme

    1 year ago

    Missing the point?!

    So get this..I'm gonna POINT OUT the following: There are too many black people listening to rap music. These people are dumb, uneducated, and have violent tendencies! They just get in the way of hard-working, educated, and socially responsible white people trying to enjoy their rock and country. One such white person, "James", who wishes his identity hidden, had this to say "You know..I was just driving on a nice sunday afternoon when these crazy black people pulled up next to me in their Esclade with their loud music going on about pu$$ies and crack..I couldn't even enjoy my own music. And it's just every where..I can't even go a day without hearing the crap..and the way any of them can just dance to it out of no where is freaky." Obviously these dumb black people ought to think of better ways to enjoy their music. Music isn't just about being loud and R-rated.

    I wouldn't be racist because I'm only pointing out the fact that black people listen to rap. Right?

  • sezyboy

    1 year ago

    Assert your miniority

    I am leaning towards agreeing with the Macleans article.

    The real root of the problem is this:

    "I am Taiwanese Canadian"
    "I am Chinese Canadian"
    "I am Korean Canadian"
    etc

    it should be:
    "I am Canadian"

    I have a lot of anecdoctal and some interesting stats about the problems(related to Macleans statements) that are happening at my university but it would be a long rant and I got to go back to studying.

    No I was not born a Canadian, English is my 3rd language and I am a student in a BC university.

  • Magnus

    1 year ago

    This is Hardly New.

    My Father is 67, was born in Canada and even served in the Reserves for the Royal Engineers. He has been very successful in his field, yet when he meets people one thing they ask is: "Where are you from?". My Dad replies Canada and they almost always retort, "No, but before that?" or "You don't look Canadian." We're white, specifically we're Slavic.
    My Grandmother was Russian and my Grandfather was Belarussian. My Dad is told he doesn't look Canadian because he looks too ethnic, too Slavic. This is Canada my friends, we crap on immigrant groups, almost like a national past time. Things change gradually and over time yesterdays stereotypes become just that - yesterdays stereotypes. It takes time, but it is still there no matter how much we prattle on as a Nation about how open we are.
    My Grandfather's family came to Canada at a time when the only Slavs welcome in Canada were farmers. Those farmers were only welcome because Cliford Sifton, Laurier's Minister of the Interior, needed immigrants who would work the most difficult farmland left in Canada. (and that group was hardly welcome and considered uncouth and ultimately undesirable) My Grandmother's family were farmers and they huddled together, shut out the rest of the country, complaining all the while how things were better in the "Old Country".
    My Grandfather's family was a bit better off back in the Old Country, not farmers and not welcome to immigrate to Canada directly. So they travelled across Europe, caught a boat from Spain to Brazil. From Brazil my Grandfather, his mother and sister worked their way up through the rest of South and Central America, through the States and then to Canada at last.
    He worked in the railroads, worked in the mines, started his own business while working as a foreman for a mine, served in WWII and threw himself into a new life as a Canadian with gusto. He worked hard and served and still received derision based on his ethnic origin.
    Despite the myths we foist upon ourselves regarding Canada's tolerance and multi-culturalism, we continue to see intolerance towards newer groups. Asians and Indians aren't alone, in fact, some might say they are really a part of Canadian Tradition. But it gets better, no one looks at me and thinks immigrant. The younger generations look at my Dad and see some generic, white Canadian guy not realising how much he can sympathise with their own situation.

  • BradT123

    1 year ago

    this is way over the top

    Why can't we accept or even celebrate that different groups of people have different abilities? I don't know or care if it is genetic or environmental, but the differences exist. Back in university it was obvious to everyone that the Chinese students were incredibly good at math. They saw things easily that I just could not see. When those same people were asked to "compare and contrast" diferent economic theories, they came to me confused, saying they didn't even know what the question was asking.
    Denying these differences is just dancing around the elephant in the room. It's goofy, extreme political correctness.
    Been to a night club lately? White guys like me still can't dance. And the black guys are still incredible.
    Asians value the results produced by extremely hard work. Whites like to experience life at a slower pace. Facts are facts.

  • worried

    1 year ago

    too asian

    What bothers me most about this response is her description of why her parents came to Canada. No intention of embracing Canadian culture. They came to exploit our public education system. Didn't bother to learn English and behaved like the British Raj in India. Satellite parents create a huge drain on our school system. Their children often feel abandoned, when the school phones no one speaks English, interpreters have to be hired and we finally reach a parent on their cell phone in their offshore business. Our best immigrants were the American war resisters who came here because they admired Canadian values and wanted to help create a just society. I find wealthy offshore immigrants who arrive to exploit the public services paid for by our taxes, have obscene amounts of wealth to buy up real estate and then vote for tax cuts is not a healthy trend in our democratic process. People who have made a lot of money in third world countries are let in as "heritage immigrants". Third world millionaires probably do not represent the most progressive thinkers who would be interested in voting for a society that promotes economic and social justice.

  • Bobby Peru

    1 year ago

    Burning a cross on our intellectual lawns

    Although Ms. Luk makes a valiant attack on Macleans, there is a greater issue at stake here that has become out of bounds due to Canadians' political correctness.

    Unless analysts or journalists are allow to make characterizations in order to formulate a genuine argument, we will never be able to stage a tough, no-holds-barred discussion on racism and immigration in Canada. Ultimately, the Maclean's article should be forcing all of us to face up to the fact that Canadians are just as racist as Americans. At least in the US, they openly laugh at racial differences. In Canada, we fake a sense of moral superiority that prevents us from revealing true feelings.

    The Maclean's writers did nothing wrong by taking the route of undisclosed sources who merely gave their opinions. While stereotyping is wrong, if authors cannot characterize an issue then it is impossible to make any meaningful remarks or assertions. Especially in a tough topic like racism in our universities.

    Anecdotally, Macleans is dead right. White students in Canadian universities have been uncomfortable with the increasing numbers of Asian students- both foreign and Canadian for decades. They didn't call UBC the "University of a Billion Chinese" back in the 80s for nothing. The differences between the whites and Asians are blatant and unreconcilable. I don't need to elaborate on them because the Maclean's feature and all the comments have done a complete job. But, the key point is that in the end you can't control what people think, only what they do.

    As long as there are no race riots at Canadian universities I think the whites and the Asian students will generally get along. Once the students enter the real world and perhaps live and work abroad in the globalized economy, they will understand everyone is different, yet the same.

    Many white Canadians, especially in Vancouver as you can see on this site, are very unhappy and uncomfortable with change in racial composition over the last 30 years. Some have moved out of Vancouver because of it. Many of them don't understand that Canada needed more people to drive a bigger economy otherwise the standard of living would fall. The fact that Canada is a big land mass next door to the US, an economic powerhouse is an unfortunate, but real reason for increasing our population.

    Unfortunately, the kind of white people that white Canadians would like in Canada don't want to leave the comfort of their countries: Norway, Sweden, UK, etc. Allowing relatively wealthy Asians to immigrate to Canada is a way to cultivate Canadians who will not end up on welfare.

    The whole nerdy, socially inept Asian has been a constant character in US and Canadian universities- see "Animal House". That Asians see university as a platform for income advancement and white kids see it as their first taste of freedom (see "American Pie") will never change.

  • Noggy

    1 year ago

    It's a small world with too much strife

    If only things were done for heartfelt reasons rather than accommodating reasons.

    Many natural born Canadians have cultural differences because of geography, yet we are all Canadians in heart and spirit.

  • RickW

    1 year ago

    Bobby Peru

    Quote:
    Anecdotally, Macleans is dead right. White students in Canadian universities have been uncomfortable with the increasing numbers of Asian students- both foreign and Canadian for decades. They didn't call UBC the "University of a Billion Chinese" back in the 80s for nothing

    Then I suppose those 80's students, if they bother to vote at all, shouldn't have voted for the political parties that have cut and cut education budgets, forcing the universities to go where the money is.

    Something about coming back to bite ya......

  • Ramona777

    1 year ago

    Observations

    One recent Saturday, I brought my daughter to UVic to write her SAT.
    Asian parents actually drove on a wide sidewalk and dropped their children off right at the door and then went into the building with their children. Success at all costs, even at the risk of breaking rules you might say.
    I did not see one white parent do the same thing. I did accompany my daughter into the building, at her request.
    My daughter told me she doesn't like Asian students. They don't mix with others, amongst other reasons.
    My daughter, much to my dismay, is not academically inclined like the students she dislikes. She'll have to find her own way. I will not hover and literally bring her to the well.
    Accept it -- the differences will not be extinguished.

  • RickW

    1 year ago

    Ramona777

    Quote:
    Accept it -- the differences will not be extinguished

    And that is why we are a cultural mosaic, and not the poor cousin to the melting pot to the south.

  • Bobby Peru

    1 year ago

    More intellectual cross burnings

    Ramona777, let me tell you a story. I have a former employee in China whose family started off in a dirt farm in central China. He got a job in Shenzhen, moved his wife and daughter out. After working for years, he started his own company, bought a used machine and became my supplier. The family slept in the shop next to the machine until he made enough money to rent a flat. Then, they saved enough money to send their daughter to a British school where she crammed her brain like a trash compactor. She wants to go to a prestigious university so she fills out forms and I introduce her to a friend who is an alumnus of Brown and interviews candidates.

    My friend asks her about extracurricular activities and she tells about how she organized a wine club and a trip to Bordeaux for the club. My friend remarks that the kids were just 17 or 18. The girl from China remarked that the French don't care and they had a great time.

    So she got into Brown, a prestigious American college. And her parents used to be dirt farmers.

    That is the kind of white hot drive, win at any cost attitude that kids from China exhibit. They not only want to climb out of the dirt farm, they are willing to take white people's place at top schools and top jobs. If all of you were to step outside of the lazy world you have in Vancouver, you would see the next wave coming.

    Now as I said in my first post, I'm not saying white students are lazy. They are just very different from the group of intense, school-as-the-end-all Asian students. Of course, there are other groups of Asian students who are more laid back. Of course, there are white students who are smart "nerds". But there is a very real and significant group of Asian students who take school very, very seriously and throw off the bell curve. They attract attention.

    Our Canadian cultural mosaic concept only creates balkanization. The US, our richer cousin, accepts ethnic differences but requires that English be the main language and that everyone pledges allegiance to the flag. The US doesn't have the Quebec problem. After all, how can you fight a war without unity? And the US has a decent war for every generation.

    White and Asian students should accept the differences while trying to mix it up. The Maclean's article is only pointing out these differences. And if they don't they will have to learn to deal with all sorts of different people when they enter the workforce and need to make a living.

  • KevinC

    1 year ago

    No confusion

    Contrary to what some posters seem to suggest or imply, I don't see any confusion on the part of the author as to her identity. That is surely one of the central points that she makes: she is 100% Canadian. In that regard, the question as to the motives of her parents is irrelevant. Indeed, any attempt at making a connection between the two is in my mind as problematic as suggesting that the child of a murderer is thus a potential murderer.

    @marlonbrando: That is strange indeed. I think the organizers have a loophole, perhaps, in that they define Asian by country of origin rather than by ethnicity. Theoretically, you could be a descendant of the last Viceroy of India and qualify for the tournament, no?

  • donclaw

    1 year ago

    Maclean's turned into right wing magazine

    The reason Maclean's wrote this article is that it has been a right-wing magazine for several years. This is how they write about everything. It pains me to read anything in their. It's rarely good journalism.

    The "globe and mail Report on Business" wrote an article on the Chinese immigrants buying on the Van westside. Interviewed lots of high profile chinese immigrants around vancouver.
    They seperate the chinese immigrants by class and where they've migrated in Canada.

    Chinese immigrants are as different from Filipinos and Pakistanies as they are from swedish immigrants. The difference with perception for me is I can't tell the guy is from Sweden without talking to him.

    I have been in 2 situations where I was out with Canadians of Asian ancestry and had European Immigrants announce that they didn't mind people from Asia here. Both in Vancouver. I don't know how Canadians of Asian ancestry can stand this crap.

  • RickW

    1 year ago

    Further to Bobby Peru's Assessment:

    http://www.alternet.org/story/149080/4_scenarios_for_the_coming_collapse_of_the_american_empire
    Similarly, Chinese innovation is on a trajectory toward world leadership in applied science and military technology sometime between 2020 and 2030, just as America's current supply of brilliant scientists and engineers retires, without adequate replacement by an ill-educated younger generation

  • Mathieu Y

    1 year ago

    To Dorothy

    While I find your opinion somewhat educated and well explained, I can not agree that cultural footholds should be respected. Just as we currently do not live in a time of condoned apartheid and shotgun weddings, so too will the future change what our culture actually means. In fact, in recent times the biggest headlines have been regarding the cultural shift from prosperity to tight knitted security. Every action has the potential to change culture, and rightfully so. Bullheadedly declaring a pride for your culture is, at least in my opinion, without value or pretense.

    Furthermore, accepting another culture involved not just witnessing the culture as a bystander, but learning and questioning the resolve of their beliefs and issues. Although this can be accomplished to an extent by simple watching, actually involving yourself in their (in this case immigrant) culture can be much more enlightening.

    As for the points you raised about the Chinese perhaps being scared to engage someone in a debate about their dilemnas with the communist party and falun gong, you raise a good point that I had been unaware of. Thank you.

    And lastly, as for involving my own culture... I am Caucasian, poor, young, and don't really even fit in with the West Coast as it stands. If I could easily associate myself with a culture I would, but as it stands I do educate immigrants about Vancouver's history, it's current issues, and it's notable landmarks to the best of my knowledge. Sometimes it gets embarassing (revealing that the steam clock is nothing but a structure to keep yippies in the 70s from sleeping on the street, for example!) but at other times can help them appreciate Vancover more than if a long time resident didn't ever approach them.

    Thanks for your reply though. The posts on this board tend to be more educated than most news media as a whole, I find.

    • The discussion for this story is closed. No more comments can be added.