Um!

Don't get too excited.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, the idea of having a separate competition for disabled athletes is silly and enormously costly.

Include the Paralympics as part of the Olympics - or get rid of them.

Separate medals and a separate games is demeaning to the athletes and wastefully costly.

I have a close relative who volunteered for the Paralympics games (he's a highly paid health professional and not a civil servant - ie, he'll be getting no holiday pay for the period at all - unlike Campbell's 'volunteers') and spent most of the time he was there doing NOTHING.

Couch Potatoes

Just proves that he average Joe is bored to death!
We live in a society filled with couch potatoes and we are proud if we manage to stir them up once in a blue moon? pitifull!

You know...

It may have been bread and circuses. The backroom deals may have gone through. The IOC and their local collaborators may have successfully made off with bazillions of taxpayer dollars. Etc etc etc, yadda yadda yadda.

In other words, the same shit that happens every single day in the back rooms of government and the boardrooms of corporationland HAPPENED DURING THE OLYMPICS.

Oh No! Not more of the same!

Were we let down by our political "leaders"? Sure. Was the money spent irresponsibly? Yeauhp.

Did the majority care?

Nope. And all the armchair pundits in BC, all whining in unison, didn't even make a dent in public opinion - because people don't like listening to whiners, especially when there's a party to be had and the whiners are probably right.

That's the problem. The Olympics were just one more symptom.

They were also one hell of an amazing experience. Geoff is right. It's a pity our day-to-day status quo isn't as friendly and fun as it was during the Olympics.

Vancouver feels dead now, no one meets your eyes any more, lost people look for help on street corners and people brush them off properly again. And the street folk have reappeared from wherever they were shipped off to.

A long unfocused blurb. Sorry. Just saying, when we stop bitching about the Olympics and focus on engaging people, our political ideals might actually gain some traction.

Oh look, World Cup skiing is on. Probably more interesting than reading the flames in this thread.

GNASH BITCH MOAN GNASH GNASH

The Olympics benefitted this city, plain and simple. Vancouver is better for having hosted the world for a month. Our city feels wonderfully different.

To the critics who are still anonymously flaming away in comment sections on Tyee, Bula's blog, CBC (the worst of the worst in mouth-breathing bitching), etc: Suck it. Get over it. Channel your rage into something that actually affects change, without the holier-than-thou, my way or the highway rhetoric.

GWest "I have a close

GWest
"I have a close relative who volunteered for the Paralympics games ... and spent most of the time he was there doing NOTHING."

Good for him. He would have been useful had their been an incident, which there wasn't because it was a great success.

The critics are so completely lost. The facilities were all built on, or before, time and on budget and the previous critical friends and acquaintances of mine turned around without exception and all enjoyed the whole event. TV coverage across the country broke all records and the hockey enthusiasts had historical and magical games that were the cherry on the cake.

Don't forget who won most Golds.

Russia and London are seriously studying the Vancouver Olympics and are working hard to try and emulate what were obviously a fantastic success.

Wrong

In fact, his first reaction, and the reaction of most health professionals at the secondary games was that their time had been wasted.

It had nothing to do with success or failure and you clearly didn't read my post: The Paralympics should be folded into the Olympics proper.

That's why I wrote this:
And, not to put too fine a point on it, the idea of having a separate competition for disabled athletes is silly and enormously costly.

Include the Paralympics as part of the Olympics - or get rid of them.

Separate medals and a separate games is demeaning to the athletes and wastefully costly.

You already know what I think of the games themselves - I think they were a huge drunken party and a stupidly wasteful way to squander valuable resources - I was merely listing ONE MORE EXAMPLE of why.

The People Have Spoken!

From Angus Reid Strategies:

With numbers like those, the 2010 Winter Olympics have been deemed to be a smashing success by all BC’ers alike!

The People are always right.

Campbell's polling numbers

I saw a poll the other week that found that very little Olympic 'shine' has rubbed off on Gordon Campbell. That, as Martha Stewart would say, is a good thing.

I went to a number of Olympic and Paralympic events in Vancouver, and Harper and Campbell were at all of them.

Now, we can wait to hear if the various stories going around about the problems at various venues are true and what are the real costs. As my wife noted recently, it is now at the point that she distrusts everything out there that purports to be news, whether the source be MSM or alternative sources like The Tyee.

I voted against the Olympics at the Vancouver referendum. In the end, I had to accept the Games and my family attended and enjoyed a number of events. Now we have to get back to 'normal' or the new version of normal.

Polling numbers.

The largest population in the poll came from Vancouver. What do you expect when they get to stiff the rest of us for a portion of the bill. When you watch it on TV, who cares where it is televised from.

GWest

You wrote:
"In fact, his first reaction, and the reaction of most health professionals at the secondary games was that their time had been wasted."

How many health professionals were in this unscientific poll? Was the poll peer-reviewed or qualified by Price Waterhouse? Were volunteer health professionals equally morbid regarding the non-parylimpic games? Are health professionals generally ambivalent towards sporting events? Were these health professionals unhappy that nobody slipped and twisted an ankle, so they had nothing to do? Do health professionals smile broadly when they waste time? This is important because the dentists had a field day because no matter where one went everyone was smiling all day long and, you know how it is, if you sell shoes you notice other peoples', if you're a dentist you see people's teeth when they're smiling.

The ones I was speaking about

People who gave of their time freely and without any compensation of any kind (including no offsetting holidays or pay) unlike Gordo's public servant 'volunteers'.

There is no ambivalence whatever. They volunteered to help and found they had almost NOTHING TO DO while on duty awaiting 'something to do'.

The only point I was making - and I thought it was both clear and unequivocal - is that the Olympics and Paralympics should be held at the SAME time - better using scarce and expensive resources; providing a higher profile for the Paralympians and a recognition that they are as equally valued as the able-bodied Olympians.

Do you get it? The person I'm speaking about could equally have volunteered for the Olympic games. The point simply is, the person I'm speaking about felt her time was squandered.

Someone with a degree, a medical degree, five years of specialty training and several post graduate fellowships has a right to feel, I think, that her time is not being wasted - whether or not payment is involved.

Your 'sporting' reference, along with the rest of your post is simply silly.

Chopped Liver, moi?

Reassure your friend that her time was deeply appreciated and not even the most fleeting nanosecond was wasted. Were an unfortunate accident to have occurred her superior expertise could well have saved a life or many lives. As fortune had it, the Games were brilliantly organized and flawlessly executed and the comfort of knowing that someone with her skills and experience was ready and at hand further confirms that all contingencies were contemplated.

There are times when each of us feel as though we are merely taking up space but she should not tumble into that morass in this case. Perhaps a little lack-of-stress stress leave is indicated.

Yes, the world could be a much better place...

We could do wonders if we had $5 billion to blow every three weeks.

Remember the $1 billion on security; that has absolutely no legacy other than a forest of surveilance cameras.

Otherwise I agree; it would be nice to live in a fantasy-land of opening ceremonies.

I got one hell of a high over this year's Spring Break; I worked with over 20 high school students on a wetland restoration project. It cost nothing and the effects will last over 100 years. There are other ways to get high besides blowing a wad of cash on a big pahty.

Meanwhile our wonderful government wants to sell off our healthcare system to paying customers, and they want to build yet another casino in downtown Vancouver.

Hello: newsflash. Gambling does not create wealth, it merely redistributes it - from the poor who can't afford it, to the casino operators, who usually end up linked to organised crime.

Aside from the climate and the scenery, BC SUCKS!

A success, but

I think the games were a success, but then I've always loved winter sports. However, if the provincial Liberals plan on taking credit for it, I don't think they will get it. People think that Campbell is, and always will be, a jerk.

The biggest tragedy of this whole farce

Is that the Canadian team tried to "OWN" something it had no right to by cheating, scheduling conflicts, denying access, and Canadians were wholeheartedly biased participants in the scheme by cheering only their own team, and interfering with the concentration and attempts of other athletes, or worse, booing them, as they did sometimes.

I recall playing Peewee hockey with parents cheearing good plays by both teams. I've been at musical competitions where all participants were praised by everyone. I ran track and field where teams would congratulate each other and the spectators who gave any passing runner water without regard to team membership. Sounds like this attitude was missing at the games.

Canadians used to be known for fair play in the face of insurmountable odds. Not any more. The rude behaviour of a bunch of Canadians and their leaders has sullied the reputations of 25 million to no discernible benefit.

I've taken the Canadian flag off my luggage. I've no interest in being a target for border guards and taxi drivers on my next trip overseas.

Calling All Baloney Eaters

The city is different! The country is transformed! All the street signs are now made of chocolate!!! Go ahead, bite one.

A poll says that 80% of people in BC "believe" the Olympics have had a positive benefit on the country / province / city. About 80% of people also couldn't find Taipei on a map or explain how government deficits affect bond prices. I wouldn't base my opinions on what 80% of people believe.

I'm glad people enjoyed it. It means the money wasn't a complete waste. But as for legacy and economic benefits - baloney. Most of the facilities will never be utilized at a profitiable level, and will always be a drain on the taxpayer. Some will never be used again at all. The Olympics will not attract tourists. Who here has visited St. Albert, Lillehammer, Nagano, or Salt Lake City? The Olympics will not attract investment. Corporate executives make investment decisions based on tax rates, labour costs, the regulatory environment etc., not on whether or not a city hosted the Olympics.

$9 billion works out to $2,000 for every man, woman, and child in the province. I wonder how many families of four would have been so supportive if they had to pony up $8,000 in cash, up front, before buying any tickets?

Paul Abbott

Thank you sir

I have 9, 9 billion dollars from the Abbott, do I hear ten, I'm looking for ten, come on ladies and gentlemen can I have ten. How about nine five, will someone give me nine five? We'll throw in the whole Vancouver International Airport as an Olympic expense if someone will give me ten. Ah, yes, you sir in the back with the unhappy sneer, is that a bid or are you giving me the finger?

What I'll remember most about the Olympics?

What I'll remember most about the Olympics?

Ahh the warm smiling faces, the warm breezes, the partying, the food… not here though, in a far away country where I spent three wonderful weeks evading the drunken hordes, meat head cops, corporate sleaze bags and suburban faux patriots that apparently filled the streets of Vancouver.

Hey Meggs, no where did you mention the significant monetary and environmental costs of the Olympics, and the impacts of these on the region. And no where do you talk about any real legacy for solving the most important problems here in Vancouver - homelessness, lack of affordable housing, transit for the busy east west routes - why is that? Is it because the Olympics did nothing for these things?

Anyway, I hear you're pushing to demolish the Georgia street viaducts - don't you think we have enough yuppie micro condo's already? When are you going to focus on what you were elected for? We need affordable housing in this city, don't you get it? And by the way I don't mean the pint-sized micro condos - we need policy shifts to encourage growth in affordable, decent rental housing and co-ops, and to rein in speculation.

Figures

Realisticman

Ann Coulter. Nice touch.

Sorry if my accounting is a little off, but I've been taking a math course from VANOC.

Operating Budget $1.76 billion
Olympic Facilities $.58 billion
Security $.9 billion
Convention Centre $.89 billion
Olympic Village $1 billion
Sea to Sky Upgrade $.6 billion
(or $.8 if you include the additional long-term maintanence costs incurred)
Canada Line $2.1 billion
BC Place New Roof $.46 billion

TOTAL $8.29 - $8.49 billion

This doesn't include costs such as access roads, service hook-ups, and other costs related to the actual operation of the games that are hidden in the Ministry of Forests, Ministry of Transportation, and various municipal budgets, which would bring it up considerably.

As for the sneer and finger, well, I don't know you. If you're one of the people in charge of selling us all this thing, then yes, sure, a little anger is appropriate. If you're one of the true believers, God bless and good luck.

The Abbott Decides

You're too smart to not know that the Operating Budget figure you cite is not a cost to Canadians and certainly not to British Columbians. Therefore, it cannot, of course, be included in any total figure claim that this is what the Games is costing 'us'. From the Official VANOC site:

"Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games
Expenditures
Revenue, marketing and communications
170.4
Sport and Games operations
247.0
Services and Games operations
616.0
Technology
391.9
Workforce and Sustainability
140.2
Finance
126.6
Total Expenses
1,692.1
Net foreign exchange loss
13.6
Project Contingency
50.1
Total Expenses and Contingency
1,755.8"

FINE. TOTAL expenditures. Now we look at revenues:

"Revenue
($M)
IOC Contribution
447.0
Sponsorship:
IOC International Sponsorship
196.4
Domestic Sponsorship
756.8
Marketing Royalties
(197.3)
VIK transfers to venues, net
(11.8)
Ticketing
260.4
Licensing and Merchandising
53.8
Paralympic revenue
40.0
Other
237.5
Revenue contingency
(27.0)
Total Revenue
1,755.8"

What is the net that we are liable for? There might even be a profit!

Where does the Facilities figure include? The Village is a Vancouver project. The Oval is a Richmond project (excepting 30 million from the feds and the BC govt.), costing nothing since the City sold land and actually made money. Sea to Sky was in the cards anyway. Canada Line has been on the boards for years and certainly wasn't built for a 2 week event. BC Place new roof is still under design development, hardly an Olympic cost.

I'm not selling anything but I do like to check facts when snowballs are thrown around and if the naysayers want to throw in a transit line and a convention centre why don't they throw in whole town of Whistler as an expense? As I said, throw in the whole Airport too, lots of athletes came through there.

@pabbott

Bwahh Ha hah Ha Heh - lovely!

Did you read the story in Time Magazine by Sean Gregory about what Canadians are REALLY good at?

I'll just quote a couple of lines:
"But let's face it: if public intoxication were an Olympic sport, Vancouver and Whistler would own the podium."

and,

...I'm no prude. But all the yelling and screaming and woo-wooing becomes grating. These are the fourth Olympics I've covered, and Vancouver drinks Athens, Torino and Beijing under the table. I asked a few journalists who have covered more Games than I have to rate Vancouver on the intoxication scale. Vahe Gregorian of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, who has covered eight Olympics, dating back to Atlanta in 1996, agreed with my chart-topping assessment. In reference to downtown Vancouver's main strip of nightclubs, he said, "Granville Street itself is unlike anything I've seen at an Olympics." And he noted that all the drinking has led to a lot of public urinating. "I've personally witnessed about 8 to 10 guys whizzing at once along a fence half a block off the main street," he said. "It's like the infield at the Kentucky Derby."

That kind of reputation, I'm willing to bet, is priceless.

Shazaaaam!

Firstly, Hwy 99N (STS) is part of the Canadian National Highway System. In fact, it has been designated as a core route.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/images/mediaroom/nhs_map_l.gif

BTW, here is the June, 2001 MoT report on the existing STS corridor upgrades/alternate route analysis for the Sea to Sky Highway commissioned by the NDP in preparation for the upgrades. A synopsis of further engineering studies from the 1990's are also contained therein.

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/seatosky/reports/Highway99_Corridor_Improvements.pdf

The SKS (esp. from HSB to Squamish) was a sub-standard 1950's 2-lane design with poor geometry and sight-lines. AADT of about 14,000/day along this section. Once traffic counts hit 10,000/day highway engineers begin to look at twinning/4-laning.

During the 1980's, many of the original 2-lane wooden trestles were replaced with 4-lane concrete clear-spans along the HSB to Squamish corridor in anticipation of future twinning as well as for safety reasons.

The M-Creek Bridge and Charles Creek disasters were the impetus for these bridge replacements as well as $hundreds of millions$ spent on concrete debris flow structures.

As noted above, the NDP government during the 1990's commissioned several reports on upgrading the corridor for safety, capacity, and reliability.

Traffic "ponding" was a serious concern in that, at times, operating speeds could drop to as low as 50 km/hr, resulting in increased driver frustration.

The Olympics were the catalyst to improve the corridor (which would have been done within the decade in any event).

MoT decided to upon the "cheap" option, which was an 80 km/hour design standard with twinning only along some sections between HSB and Squamish at a capital cost of $660 million.

A full 4-lane freeway from HSB to Squamish with a 100 km/hr design standard (viaducts/tunnels/bridges/interchanges/blasting) would have alone come in at a capital cost of $1 - 2 billion along that terrain, notwithstanding the upgrades to the Squamish to Whistler section.

In any event, the SKS highway upgrades would have been completed with or without the Olympics as the corridor provides for commuting/commercial/and recreational needs and traffic counts will continue to grow, esp. with the substantial decrease in travel times.

Dems da facts Jack.

Catalyst

Luke.

Absolutely. The Olympics were a catalyst for a lot of projects, and that's exactly the problem.

All kinds of projects are studied and planned, yet never see the light of day. Leaving aside for the moment whether or not the Sea to Sky upgrade was a good idea, waving the banner of the Olympics over it provided excellent political cover for spending the money. This is why policians of all stripes tend to love the games. They can push through their pet projects, spend a bunch of our money, and get thanked for it.

As for whether the project was advisable, it depends largely on whether you think it's a good idea to turn the Horseshoe Bay - Squamish corridor into suburbs for car commuters to Vancouver.

Saint Luke

"The SKS (esp. from HSB to Squamish) was a sub-standard 1950's 2-lane design with poor geometry and sight-lines. AADT of about 14,000/day along this section."

Wrong. The peak AADT was about 14,000... in winter... on weekends.....only. The AADT was just over 10,000.... in 2005 - four years after the report was written... except in July and August when it went up a bit to 11,000. There was no call for traffic engineering to begin engineering a new route as the old one had received all the safety upgrades that were needed by 1999.

Look at your weekday traffic - 7-8,000 trips a day! And you want a four-laner based on potential future growth? When other areas of the province are struggling to keep up with massive traffic jams based on current population?

Sad.

And don't look at the Squamish-Whistler section - traffic volumes are half what you quoted. No excuse for anything more than the 2-lane road they originally had.

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/trafficdata/tradas/reports/AllYears/2005/01/AV02/AV02%20-%20Site%20Murrin%20Park%20-%20P-15-8NS%20-%20N%20on%2001-01-2005.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/trafficdata/tradas/reports/AllYears/2009/01/AV02/AV02%20-%20Site%20Cheekye%20-%20P-15-3NS%20-%20N%20on%2001-01-2009.pdf