Sauce for the goose ...

Perhaps the problem is that Israel is anti-Canadian:
http://www.jewishtoronto.net/page.aspx?id=64351

But Israel has a BFF in Harper:
http://tinyurl.com/IDFkillsUNPeacekeeper

Certainly, the Zionist militants perpetrated anti-Anglo violence:
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/files-of-jewish-interest.html

Not forgetting their anti-Nordic activity:
http://tinyurl.com/AssassinsForIsrael

Israel; giving 'democracy' a bad name for 60 years.

Sauce for the goose ...

Perhaps the problem is that Israel is anti-Canadian:
http://www.jewishtoronto.net/page.aspx?id=64351

But Israel has a BFF in Harper:
http://tinyurl.com/IDFkillsUNPeacekeeper

Certainly, the Zionist militants perpetrated anti-Anglo violence:
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/files-of-jewish-interest.html

Not forgetting their anti-Nordic activity:
http://tinyurl.com/AssassinsForIsrael

Israel; giving 'democracy' a bad name for 60 years.

Sauce for the goose ...

Perhaps the problem is that Israel is anti-Canadian:
http://www.jewishtoronto.net/page.aspx?id=64351

But Israel has a BFF in Harper:
http://tinyurl.com/IDFkillsUNPeacekeeper

Certainly, the Zionist militants perpetrated anti-Anglo violence:
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/files-of-jewish-interest.html

Not forgetting their anti-Nordic activity:
http://tinyurl.com/AssassinsForIsrael

Israel; giving 'democracy' a bad name for 60 years.

I don't need to criticize.

The Goldstone Report did it for me.

Completely, thoroughly, absolutely, totally agreed.

In October of 2006, in a letter to the Prime Idiot, I too pointed out the fact that criticizing the actions of Israel’s government is not anti-Semitic. It seemed a ridiculous thing to have to articulate, but we were so clearly being commanded; thou shalt not criticize Israel, that it begged a rebuttal.

The Harpy is, and was, completely biased, and has no moral or ethical standards to temper that bias, but this cabal of 13 worries me more. It is disturbing to learn that that manipulative lie has supporters in every party.

It is a prostitution of the Jewish holocaust, a sadistic denial of the inherent equality of Israel’s victims, and a slap in the face to people who suffer legitimate bigotry. Recently, in “beautiful” British Columbia, a gang of bigots packed themselves into a pick up truck and went hunting for black people. When they found one, they hurled racist epithets. When he refused to cower, they physically attacked him.

We live in a country where good-old-boy cops can refuse to lay hate-crime charges against the perpetrators of the DEFINITION of a hate crime, despite having recorded video (and audio) evidence, posted on youtube for the whole world to see, and replayed on the national news.

THAT is where, and who, Canadian bigotry is ACTUALLY attacking, yet we should all be so hysterically sensitive about the Jewish holocaust that all rational thinking flies out the window? What was slavery, a tickle fight?

There has been something very wrong with Israel’s leadership for quite a while, and noticing it doesn’t make me anti-Semitic OR anti-Israeli, any more than noticing that something is very wrong with Canada’s leadership makes me anti-Canadian.

There is NO form of bigotry involved in expecting Israel to observe international law; it WOULD, however, be bigoted to suggest that they alone are incapable of it, and should therefore be excused.

To be Anti-Semetic...

Skywalker wrote, "I sometimes wonder how the term "semite" was usurped by the Israelis."

Historically, before the great expulsion of the Jews from Palestine by the Roman's, some three thousand years ago, the Jews were of course one of the tribes of Israel. (To be anti-Semite actually means to be anti-Arab, strange as it seems, which the Jews were before their great diaspora at the hands of the Roman Empire.)

Over these thousands of years since, of course, the "wandering Jew", like the "wandering Scots" of my heritage :-), moved into, inter-bred with, and became part of the peoples of many lands, from China through India, to Russia and Europe. Where actually they became more of a "religion" than an "ethnicity", with still this great "national" diaspora time as part of its heritage, that created confusion around the difference.(Indeed, whilst the Jews of Israel's founding were at first mostly European Jewry fleeing fascist persecution, they actually come in all skin colours, from white through black, oriental and East Indian)

The point being, that while they indeed started out as being part of the great "Semite" tribes or Arab national/ethnic peoples, even sharing then Palestine with the Palestinians, three thousand years has much watered that heritage down to a minimum. Now, they are part of an incredibly broad or diverse gene pool heritage, which I suggest, really makes modern Jewry more of a religion than national ethnicity. (If still with this "nationalist thread" that goes back as part of its evolutionary memory, to ancient Palestine.)

I could tell you the story of the Scots, even the Irish, that are my "national-ethnic" roots, which would sound reminiscently familiar to this story of the Jews, in many regards (if with important differences as well). Only the place, or role of The Romans is replaced by The English. :-)

None stand before history with entirely clean hands. (The Celts from Ireland who long, long ago moved into Britain to eventually become the Scots, first warred with and absorbed the aboriginal Picts people, who were there first.) We have all, somewhere in our histories, been both slaves and slave owners, oppressors and the oppressed. Modern Israel is a modern day demonstration of this elementary truth. Which still does not justify their oppression of the Palestinians, but only explains its historical roots.

Hopefully, they and the Palestinians will yet be able to work it out, so that they can finally live in peace together in the same land... again. It depends much on how much bitterness and rage the Jews of Israel create as part of the legacy.

Isreal

Isreal ( Is Real?) is an abomination and a blind canyon for Jews. Palestinians, by the way are Semitic so antiSemite is generally a ridiculous term.

What Jews SHOULD be concerned about is that ANY country they live in is a constitutional democracy with a totally unassailable bill of right.

How many Jewish organizations have protested about the nonwithstanding clause in our constitution?

I am glad to see that some Jewish people see the danger in Isreal.

It always tics me when I see the claim that Jews are "Gods Chosen People".

The Scots are "Gods Chosen People" but we are too modest to publicize that fact.

Kudos Mr. Dobbin. For the

Kudos Mr. Dobbin.
For the record: In April 2002, the Arab League presented Israel with a peace plan known as the Beirut Arab Summit Initiative. It calls for full peace between all members of the Arab League (which includes the Palestinian leadership) and Israel, i.e., full diplomatic recognition, normalization of relations, exchange of ambassadors and open borders in exchange for Israel's compliance with international law, i.e., complete withdrawal to the borders of 4 June 1967. The initiative also "calls upon Israel to affirm" that it agrees to help pursue the "achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem..." Regrettably, then Israeli PM Ariel Sharon dismissed the Arab League's peace overture, as did Israel's govt. in 2008. Other peace initiatives that Israeli governments have rebuffed include: U.S. Secretary of State William Rogers’ The Rogers Plan (1969); The Scranton Mission on behalf of President Nixon (1970); Egyptian President Sadat's land for peace and mutual recognition proposal (1971); U.S. President Jimmy Carter's call for a Geneva international conference (1977); Saudi Arabian King Fahd's peace offer (1981); U.S. President Ronald Reagan’s Reagan Plan (1982); U.S. Secretary of State George Shultz’s Schultz Plan (1988); U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s Baker Plan (1989); the much heralded 1993 Oslo accords signed by Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin that unravelled following the latter's assassination and subsequent return to power of the Likud party from 1996-1999 under Benjamin Netanyahu; continuation of the Taba II negotiations (2001), and the unofficial Geneva Peace Initiative of November/December 2003. As summarized by Ha'aretz, in his book The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World (2000), renowned Israeli historian Avi Shlaim puts the blame for the ongoing conflict squarely on Israel's shoulders: "[I]n very readable prose, based on facts, he surveys the history of Israel's contacts with the Arab world from 1948 to 2000, and states decisively ('The job of the historian is to judge,' he says) that the Israeli story that Israel has always stretched out its hand to peace, but there was nobody to talk to - is groundless. The Arabs have repeatedly outstretched a hand to peace - says Shlaim - and Israel has always rejected it. Each time with a different excuse." (Ha'aretz, August 11, 2005)

The Chosen Scots...

"The Scots are "Gods Chosen People" but we are too modest to publicize that fact."

I recall my grandfather telling me something very much like that. And he never lied. How could a man who played the bagpipes lie? lol :-)

I have yet to hear of an

I have yet to hear of an ethnic group, or nation who do not claim to be "God's chosen people".

Ed Deak.

Many Regimes

... have been wiped from the pages of history:

the Ottoman Empire, the Latin Kingdom, Islamic Caliphates, Byzantine Empire, Roman Empire, Ptolemaic Empire, Persians ...

And that's only seven recent children of the Levant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYAYnJ6HZ5M

R.B Glennie

Re: "The closing down of Netanyahu's speech." It occurred because even though the event was to take place on the university campus, those students who opposed Netanyahu's views were not allowed to attend. Re: "Of course, Israel has been `brutally assaulted' by Hamas rockets for years." Oh, really? The rocket attacks from occupied Gaza started in 2001 and took their first Israeli victim in 2004. Since then, there had been 14 Israeli victims prior to the December 2008 war. While tragic, hardly comparable to the 1,700 Gaza Strip Palestinians, including many innocent bystanders, women and children, killed by Israel during the same period.

R. B. Glennie

"This column is...

dross, like everything else that Murray Dobbin writes.

And, as I anticipated, I only had to skim to discover errors -"

Well, thank you for the great benefit of your few seconds attention. Perhaps now you'd like to take a few more seconds to go on explaining how just and valid it is that Israel continues to expand its territory by building illegal settlements on some 570 square miles of Occupation land it does not own, while refusing to give title to the Arab owners, or while removing Arab title in the name of "military necessity", and further refusing to take any responsibility for the refugees it creates?

Or, closer to home, perhaps you could inform us why our MPs seem to feel the need to waste their time holding inquiries into supposedly the worst level of anti-Semitism since WW2 when Abe Foxman of all people, a man with a hair-trigger alert for anti-Semitism, says it's the lowest it's ever been?

But if that's beneath you, perhaps you could just go out to your local bookstore and upgrade your library from its dog-eared copy of Joan Peters "From Time Immemorial" and "The Collected Tubthumping of Alan Dershowitz", and add a few Israeli historians to your reading list, which is obviously as brief as your attention to the article.

Great speaker

There is a Jewish Studies professor coming to SFU Harbour Centre Saturday Nov. 21 @ 7:30 talking about "Has Isreal become the new Jewish God?" It is being sponsored by Jews For A Just Peace and others.

surprising

my posts haven't been removed yet -

*"The closing down of Netanyahu's speech." It occurred because even though the event was to take place on the university campus, those students who opposed Netanyahu's views were not allowed to attend.*

bec. they would've done inside what they did anyway: exercise heckler's censorship and shut down his speech.

*Re: "Of course, Israel has been `brutally assaulted' by Hamas rockets for years." Oh, really? The rocket attacks from occupied Gaza started in 2001 and took their first Israeli victim in 2004. Since then, there had been 14 Israeli victims prior to the December 2008 war. While tragic, hardly comparable to the 1,700 Gaza Strip Palestinians, including many innocent bystanders, women and children, killed by Israel during the same period.*

Sorry. It is a war crime to launch rockets against civilians - period. It doesn't matter if `only x number of civilians have been killed'. If the Islamic fascists of Hamas didn't fire those rockets there never would have been a counter-attack in Gaza late last year.

*Well, thank you for the

*Well, thank you for the great benefit of your few seconds attention. Perhaps now you'd like to take a few more seconds to go on explaining how just and valid it is that Israel continues to expand its territory by building illegal settlements on some 570 square miles of Occupation land it does not own, while refusing to give title to the Arab owners, or while removing Arab title in the name of "military necessity", and further refusing to take any responsibility for the refugees it creates?*

A few seconds is all that is needed with garbage like this.

Yes, and then, you can explain why it is when the Israelis vacated Gaza, Hamas immediately set up rockets in order to commit the war crime of firing upon Israeli civilians - and then still claim that the Gaza strip is `occupied.' It will take much longer than a few seconds for you to try to explain that...

*Or, closer to home, perhaps you could inform us why our MPs seem to feel the need to waste their time holding inquiries into supposedly the worst level of anti-Semitism since WW2 when Abe Foxman of all people, a man with a hair-trigger alert for anti-Semitism, says it's the lowest it's ever been?*

I wonder, do you consult Abraham Foxman for his opinions about other subjects, like say, the legitimacy of Israel, the counter-attack against Hamas last year, the morality of the many wars launched by Arab states against Israel?

No? Then why are you so solicitous of what he says when, maybe, interpreted one way, it comports to your own prejudices.

Our parliamentarians and those of other countries are looking into anti-semitism bec. it IS a problem now, only those with blinders on can't see it.

*But if that's beneath you, perhaps you could just go out to your local bookstore and upgrade your library from its dog-eared copy of Joan Peters "From Time Immemorial" and "The Collected Tubthumping of Alan Dershowitz", and add a few Israeli historians to your reading list, which is obviously as brief as your attention to the article.*

thanks: books i've never read but apparently you have.

Maybe it's time you updated your own library, you know, so it doesn't include the `Protocols of Zion'

R. B. Glennie

Students attending Concorcia had every right to attend Netanyahu's speech as it was to take place on the universtiy campus. If permitted to attend, they also had the right to challenge him. Netanyahu was afraid to face them.
For your edification: In violation of the terms of the 17 June 2008 cease-fire agreement with Hamas, Israel permitted only 20% of the amount of essentials agreed to into the Gaza Strip which led to sporadic rocket fire into Israel (causing no casualties) by Islamic Jihad and Fatah’s Al Aqsa Brigades, not Hamas, which attempted to stop the rockets. On November 4 – purposely chosen as it was the day of the U.S. presidential election - Israel crossed the border and killed six Palestinians. As Middle East scholar Sara Roy put it, this attack by Israel was "no doubt designed finally to undermine the truce." Hamas responded with rocket fire but at the same time offered to extend the June 17 truce if Israel would end the illegal siege. Israel refused. Hamas rocket fire resumed and although no Israeli was killed, it was used by Israel as a justification for its murderous rampage that started on December 27. For the record: Embargoes against the Gaza Strip constitute “collective punishment,” illegal under international law. Although, apart from periodic air attacks and land incursions, Israel’s assault on the Gaza Strip has ended, it maintains an illegal and even stricter embargo. As the Occupying Power, the State of Israel has a legal obligation, codified in the Fourth Geneva Convention, to allow unrestricted humanitarian access. Further, if the resources in the occupied territory are inadequate – as is currently the case in the Gaza Strip – then Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention places a specific obligation on the Occupying Power [Israel] to provide the articles necessary to ensure the safety and well being of the civilian population.

no, they don't

*Students attending Concorcia had every right to attend Netanyahu's speech...*

Last point first: N. could rearrange the face of any one of those brownshirt punks who showed up to exercise heckler's censorship - if any one had been brave enough to challenge him individually.

But they won't: they are cowards, like all Brownshirts, and that is why they move in packs.

Second, no they don't have the right to go in and shut down speech that they don't like. Period.

*For your edification: In violation of the terms of the 17 June 2008...*

Sorry: what does rocket fire have to do with allegedly not allowing `essentials' into the Gaza strip? If, of course, war materiels are able to be brought into the strip, then other material is to: oh wait, except that when the UN sent `humanitarian' supplies into the strip during the counter-attack, they were immediately pillaged by the good ol' humanitarians of the Hamas govt.

Hamas `attempted to stop the rockets'. What dreamworld newscast did you get that from? Oh wait: must have been the bbc.

*On November 4 – purposely chosen as it was the day of the U.S. presidential election*

Yup: they just crossed the border, for no reason whatsoever, just 'cos they like to kill Arabs. Yup, that's your story and yer sickin' to it.

Just like you believe, I guess, in the Jenin massacre, the murder of M. Al-Dura, the killing of the family on the Gaza beach, and all the other garbage propaganda that is uncritically and regularly reported in the Western press.

*Hamas responded with rocket fire...*

Hamas has been firing rockets throughout the years since Israel vacated the Gaza strip. there is no `July 27 this or that...' the Hamas govt has been committing war crimes by doing so. Period.

*For the record: Embargoes against the Gaza Strip constitute “collective punishment,” illegal under international law. Although, apart from periodic air attacks and land incursions, Israel’s assault on the Gaza Strip has ended, it maintains an illegal and even stricter embargo. As the Occupying Power, the State of Israel has a legal obligation, codified in the Fourth Geneva Convention, to allow unrestricted humanitarian access. Further, if the resources in the occupied territory are inadequate – as is currently the case in the Gaza Strip – then Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention places a specific obligation on the Occupying Power [Israel] to provide the articles necessary to ensure the safety and well being of the civilian population.*

The Gaza Strip is not occupied by Israel.

Israel does not control Gaza strip borders: much of the border is controlled by Egypt - and hey, guess what! Egypt is no Zionist state.

Of course, things like `facts', `truth', `law' don't matter to you: Israel vacated the gaza strip, and that is that. If Hamas did not use this territory to commit war crimes by launching rockets at Israeli civilains, there would be no embargo, no counter-attack.

R.B. Glennie

You really are enveloped in hatred. It is your rant that brings to mind "brown shirts" - perhaps more appropriately, the infamous fascistic Betar. You fail to grasp the fact that Netanyahu could have booked a site off campus to deliver his propaganda. The students (many of whom are Jewish) had no intention of shutting him down, they wanted to exercise Canadians' hard won democratic right to debate him from the floor during question period. He lacked the guts to face them.

The "essentials," 80% of which Israel prevented from entering Gaza, despite its agreement to do so as per the June 17/08 cease-fire agreement with Hamas, were comprised of foodstuffs, fuel etc. to be supplied by the UN FROM ISRAEL'S SIDE OF THE border.

Re: "Hamas `attempted to stop the rockets'. What dreamworld newscast did you get that from? Oh wait: must have been the bbc." - This was confirmed not only by every neutral international observer and NGO on the scene but by Brigadier General (Res.) Shmuel Zakai, a former commander of the IDF's Gaza Division. He also accused Israel's government of having made a "central error" during the tahdiyeh, the six-month period of relative truce, by failing "to take advantage of the calm to improve, rather than markedly worsen, the economic plight of the Palestinians of the Strip . . .."

R.B. Glennie

Re: "The Gaza Strip is not occupied by Israel." Sorry, you're wrong again. Although Israel removed its occupation forces and its 9,000 illegal settler colonists in 2005, the Gaza Strip remains occupied under international law as Israel controls the borders, the air space and sea access. Like it or not, under international law, Israel remains the occupier of the Gaza Strip. Consult with an expert on international law.
(Contrary to the wishes of the Egyptian people, the US supported and financed Egyptian government of Hosni Mubarak does cooperate with Washington in restricting access to and from Sinai)

For your further edification: In response to Hamas’s victory over Fatah (76 of the 132 seats in the January 2006 election, certified as honest and democratic by international observers) for representation in the Palestinian Legislative Council (i.e. to govern both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip), economic sanctions, including customs duties, were imposed against the Palestinian Authority throughout the occupied territories. The U.S. Congress also thwarted an attempt by Fatah and Hamas to work together by holding back funding to the Palestinian authority. In June 2007, Hamas retained control of the Gaza Strip by carrying out a preventative counter-coup against a U.S./Israel orchestrated attempt by Fatah, known as the Dayton Plan, to take control by military means. Following the Hamas government’s defeat of Fatah, a crippling, inhumane and illegal (i.e., collective punishment) blockade was imposed by Israel against the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip that has since denied them sufficient amounts of food, water, medicines, fuel etc. As noted above, on June 17/08, Israel and Hamas signed a cease-fire that Israel promptly violated by only permitting in 20% of the essentials it had agreed to. As Sarah Roy notes in the quotation in my previous posting, on Nov. 4, Israel invaded the Gaza Strip, killed six Palestinians and set in motion a series of events to provide it with a pretext to launch "Operation Cast Lead," a massive invasion by land, sea and air that led to the slaughter of nearly 1,400 Palestinians and an unmitigated public relations disaster for Israel.

You are obviously a classic "true believer," unable to distinguish between the real victims and the victimizer. The truth is emerging at an accelerating rate. Prepare to see events unfold that you never imagined. The world, and increasingly so, the US, are losing patience with expansionist/occupier/ethnic cleanser Israel. It is viewed as a pariah state and the western world's number one geopolitical liability. Israel's free ride is coming to an end.

Consider this diplomatic episode . . .

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, made a state visit to Israel in April 1976, it began with a tour of Yad Vashem, Israel's great Holocaust memorial, where the late Yitzhak Rabin invited the onetime Nazi collaborator, unabashed racist, and white supremacist to pay homage to Jews who perished in the Nazi Holocaust. Compared to oft-heard outcries from Jewish groups over even mild whiffs of Holocaust revisionism, no less remarkable was the bland equanimity both Israeli and Diaspora Jews also displayed toward the Vorster visit. Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi recalls that [The Israeli Connection, Random House: Toronto, 1987, p.x] "[f]or most Israelis, the Vorster visit was just another state visit by a foreign leader. It did not draw much attention. Most Israelis did not even remember his name, and did not see anything unusual, much less surreal in the scene [an old Nazi diehard invited to mourn the Jewish victims at a Holocaust memorial]: Vorster was just another visiting dignitary being treated to the usual routine." As a onetime Nazi collaborator, John Vorster should, of course, have been arrested and tried once he set foot on Israeli soil - instead he was warmly welcomed by his Jewish hosts. The South African prime minister left Israel four days later, but not before signing several treaties between the Jewish state and Pretoria's apartheid regime. A denouement Leslie and Andrew Cockburn describe in Dangerous Liaison [Stoddart Publishing: Toronto, 1991, pp. 299-300]: "The old Nazi sympathizer came away with bilateral agreements for commercial, military, and nuclear cooperation that would become the basis for future relations between the two countries."

Surely, it would be the failure to criticize Israel after it had so abjectly compromised its dignity that would be tantamount to anti-Semitism by omission.

Orest Slepokura

BINGO!!!

Orest Slepokura

kudos.

R.B. Glennie

Your sacastic attitude is unappreciated by those trying to sort through and determine what is truth.
No offence, but I think you have to be willing to see both sides in anything like this. It seems ridiculous to believe that Israel (or any government) is beyond making mistakes, whether intentional or unintentional. It is only fair to expect criticizm of Israel (or ANY political entity) should be met with openess and honesty. Unless of course you are part of the package and you have something to hide!

reframe the debate

Amnesty International figured out a long time ago that it was much more effective (and more sensible) to avoid comparing human rights abuses committed by different governments or security forces, e.g X number of deaths vs Y number of deaths.

Perhaps this discussion would be different if we try answering:

1) how do the policies and actions of the Israeli govt serve the interests of global corporate interests and imperialism?

2) ditto for Hamas...

3) how can we support *both* Palestinians *and* Israeli Jews?

Pointing fingers always tends to push buttons. It's harder work to find ways of bringing antagonists together.

The Clash

"What does (mass murderer Yagoda) being Jewish have to do with the fact that he was a Bolshevik?

This is, I’m afraid dangerously close to the Nazi formulation that bolshevism is a ‘Jewish movement...’”

Actually R.B.Glennie, the formulation that Bolshevism was a Jewish movement is Jewish. Hitler might have learned it from The American Hebrew Magazine, because its Sept/1920 issue clearly says that “The Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish planning and Jewish dissatisfaction.”

The fact that Jews predominated among the Bolsheviks can be found in a three second google search. This truly is the apocalypse, the unveling, the time when truly, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed.

This is the revenge of all those guys who did all that painstaking research and recording only to be banned, disgraced, hounded into obscurity, exiled, bankrupted, enslaved, imprisoned, tortured and even killed. It's all out on the net now for anyone to see so your megaphoney paid by the word BS isn't going to cut it anymore.

There is a long list of very fine people, who are Jewish and highly critical of the state of Israel. Here are some of them R.B. Glennie:

Desertpeace
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/
Uri Avnery
http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/
Norman Finkelstein
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/
Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.globalresearch.ca/
Noam Chomsky
http://www.chomsky.info/articles.htm
Orly Taitz
http://orlytaitzesq.com/
Benjamin Freedman
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/benjamin.htm
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm
Jack Bernstein
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/israel.htm
Nathanael Kapner
http://www.realjewnews.com/
Henry Makov
http://www.rense.com/Datapages/henrym.htm
Israel Shamir
http://www.israelshamir.net/
Israel Shahak
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jewhis.htm

Janie Jones - The Clash - Manchester 77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBt3_TuhuEw

I think

Discussions of who is a Semite (as opposed to anti-Semite) and Yagoda are at best peripheral to this discussion. Tsarist Russia and Ukraine and other provinces that gave rise to Bolshevism was an extreme autocracy, truly laissez-faire in most aspects, and the poor suffered terribly. Radical solutions were required, and Bolshevism was not the only solution suggested. Nestor Makhno suggested anarchy as a counter-measure, which only worked in his local area, and only on the immigrants he and his bands preyed upon.

To fault Bolshevism as a Jewish conspiracy against the people is red-dogging - it wouldn't have mattered which revolutionary or group was more adept at battling the Tsarist regime, something HAD to be done. It should be no surprise that Jewish thinkers have been on the forefront of socialist and humanist thought for a long time, so one ought to expect to find some expressing a particular talent for overthrowing autocratic regimes.

This isn't to excuse Yagoda by any means - merely to ask you to consider the society he lived in as the source of his actions.

And any discussion of Semites as a subgroup of Arabs is only an anthropological distinction, and one not used in common discourse. Anti-Semitism may have been appropriated historically by Jews, and by extension, denied to other Semitic peoples but I think the English language is rich enough in allegory and meaning to come up with another term to appropriately describe the current hate-on for Arabs of any stripe so prevalent in our culture today, led so often by right-wing nutters in the eastern US and even in parts of Israel itself.

Anti-Ishmaelism, perhaps?

Why Isreal is so militaristic

Israel as we know it now could never have existed without the trillions of dollars that have come from the US by various means.

Israel is absolutely necesary to maintain the detablisation of the Middle East and to serve as a reason for physical intervention by US forces if such becomes "necessary".

A history lesson for bedebyes - 1

Your grasp of history is shaky.

Arab landowners and even fellahin looked on Jewish immigration to the Holy Land with considerable favour in the late 1890s to 1920s, as it was generally felt that they would bring with them education, opportunity, business acumen, wealth and Western culture which would raise the opportunity for all in the land. Initially it seemed that this promise might be fulfilled when they began to purchase land from the Arab landowners in the cities.

However, many Arab landowners failed to make provision for their sharecroppers, the fellahin, and left them to their own devices. Some Arab landowners sold land they did not have title to. A few Jewish titles were appropriated from fellahin who did have title to their own land, though they had indeed purchased it, simply because their title was not registered in the same Sanjak. And Jewish immigrants, though at first making use of Arab labour, later de-hired the fellahin, and later banned their employ entirely on kibbutzim.

So these fellahin, dispossessed from land they had sharecropped or even owned for generations, evicted by sale, and impoverished by unemployment, had no means to support themselves. As the British Mandatory regime became responsible for them, the British too failed to do anything for them, and the seeds of discontent were sown. And with the rapid Jewish expansion over the best farmland to a total of 4% of the territory of the Mandatory, the opportunities for partnership and learning that Arabs hoped for were simply not there.

History lesson for bedebyes - 2

It appears neither was particularly hospitable to the other. Not a recipe for success in forming a nation if you can't get along with your neighbours. Don't forget, nearly all Jewish immigration at this time was illegal - specifically prohibited by the Mandatory authorities in order to avoid changing the population makeup of the territory before it could be converted into a self-governing nation.

So to make the succeeding events all the fault of the Arabs ignores the culpability of the British mandatory regime and the Jewish immigration with its practically limitless funding under the Jewish National Fund.

It's easy to look back now and say who was culpable, but you know what? Even then, there was a considerable body of writing by Jews and Arabs both who agreed that the poverty of the displaced needed to be addressed, by both Jewish immigrants and Arabs in the cities. That it was not done did much to lead to the Safed riots and the current situation we are in today.

But if Jews had not broken the law by illegally immigrating to Palestine, and if the British government had not broken the law by illegally permitting the establishment of a Jewish homeland under the Balfour Declaration of 1917, none of this would have happened. There would be no Jewish "homeland" to fight about. And the genocide of Jews in later times might have been another 300,000 greater.

Maybe it was worth it to break the law this once, at least for the 300,000 Jews that weren't in Europe at the time of the fascist pogroms of the 1930s-40s. So try have a little consideration for those who were so badly affected by it. Or at least shut up until you learn more about it.

Zalm: Atrocity = Social Justice

Oh yes, zalm, we should all just shut up until we reach your level of indoctrination.

"Tsarist Russia and Ukraine and other provinces that gave rise to Bolshevism was an extreme autocracy, truly laissez-faire in most aspects, and the poor suffered terribly."

The seminal work of Communism, The Condition of the Working Class was written about the working class in England and Germany not the Russian Empire.

Prior to WWI, Russia had the fastest growing economy in the world, universal education, a free press, unlimited natural resources and their own banking system, but the truly horrific murder of tens of millions of innocent people and the transfer of billions of dollars worth of assets into the hands of corrupt bankers, in your mind, just had to be done.

A lot of people say there are too many people on the planet zalm and that because of that, the poor are suffering terribly. Believer as are in atrocity as means to social justice, why don't you turn all of your worldly possessions over to your bank and volunteer yourself and your family for slave labour camp so that you can be worked to death on some worthy project in order to improve their lives?

Really, it just has to be done.

Gilad Atzmon

Oversight. Adding Gilad Atzmon to above list:

Gilad Atzmon
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews.html

People are afraid to even mention Israel, even PM Harper

I contacted the Prime Minister's office and contacted my (rather useless) Tory MP and simply asked to clarify what I had read on the Feb 4th, 2007 Jerusalem Post by Edgar Lefkovits (which he also published here):

http://www.frontlineisrael.com/article.php?EntryID=89

I also asked exactly which Canadian MPs were on the "Israeli Allies Caucus".

The PMO wouldn't tell me and my own MP told me to look it up myself.

Why are they afraid to talk about Israel?

Why are they afraid to talk about Israel?

Because they (the Canadian government) have to do as they are told, just like they were told to ban George Galloway from Canada.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bdQrc6Cfyg&feature=PlayList&p=1DF5CC9FA24BAB71&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31

Blind persecution increases anti-semitism

@ R.B. Glennie

The blind persecution of anyone critical of Israeli policy is increasing anti-semitism. Something all Jews are concerned about. I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, but not if it means at the exclusion of other's rights. I don't support the policies of the current Israeli gov't to have several classes of citizens based on race, including more than one class of Jewish citizens as portrayed in this segment of film.

Mizrahi/Sephardic/Askenazis

Usually Mizrahi Jews are referred to as being Sephardic Jews in Ashkenazi Jewish media because genuine Middle Eastern Jews adhere to the Sephardic rite. Real Sephardics are actually, like me, descended from the Jews of biblical Sephardia as Spain and Portugal was then known. The Sephardics emigrated there after the fall of the Kingdom of Jerusalem rather than being carted off to Babylon around 600 BC.

The Ashkenazi, according to research done by Arthur Koestler and others are actually descended from Khazars who converted en mass to Judaism around 900 AD and not, like the Mizrahi and the Sephardics, from the original Jews of Holy Land.

Needless to say, this remains very controversial.

http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Spanish-Ladino/History/Ladino-History.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvjTayq3Tuk

Janie Jones, thanks for the links

I've done research on the Khazars and it is quite fascinating.

Benjamin H Freedman The Khazars
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5224839731207532170#docid=8085231846085852590

Entire Benjamin Freedman's 1961 speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijEXO9QTKS4

Who's the biggest perp, here?

Let's be clear about one thing: the Nazis have nothing on the Catholic church and the Canadian government!

Both parties are responsible for the elimination of %96 of the original inhabitants of 'Canada', the Indians!

Throw in another 165 years of mind control, serial child sexual abuse , %50 attrition rate at those Catholic concentration camps and general cultural genocide, and the Jewish 'victim' position begins to pale...

Nazis have nothing on the Catholic church and the Canadian gover

Thumbs up!

Israel's got nothin on Canada

Canada is the largest illegal settlement on the planet. Hitler, South Africa and Israel benefited greatly from the knowledge gained through the Indian reservation and residential school system experience in Canada.

Propaganda Techniques

Classic bait and switch.

Palestinians are semites and i'm not against them

Strange how anti-semitic came to mean only the Jews when of course, they are not the only semitic peoples. Palestinians are semitic people and being anti-semitic should include them. And given the evidence of how harsh Israel treats them, I'd say Israel is anti-semetic i.e. anti Palestinians. Sad, very sad how history has taught Israel little about compassion.