Topic
How did Norwegians get so petro-smart? The Tyee sent Mitchell Anderson there to find out. First of his reports.
While Canada built national debt, Norway parlayed oil proceeds into savings equal to $120,000 for each inhabitant.
We must fashion together our story of transition. Coolly, rationally and with good will. Here's what The Tyee and Tyee Solutions Society will be contributing.
Affluence, the tragedy reminds us, is no defence against extremism.
Find more energy reporting on The Tyee.
Is Canada an oil nation? While debate grows in this country about the ethics of the oil sands or the implications of Dutch Disease, there is little doubt that petroleum is a major part of our economy and certain to become more significant in the future.
Canada is sixth-largest oil-producing nation in the world. Energy exports are seven per cent of our GDP and 19 per cent of our exports. The Alberta oil sands have reserves second only to Saudi Arabia, and some analysts believe production may double by 2020, reaching six million barrels per day.
But what is the future of Canada's petroleum sector? Has our country done an adequate job negotiating resource rents that protect the interests of Canadian taxpayers? Ensuring worker safety or protecting the environment? Building a national consensus around the development of this globally important resource? Providing a lasting economic legacy for future generations?
It seems the debate in Canada has become so polarized that it is impossible to clarify these questions without looking elsewhere for answers. So The Tyee sent me to Norway to try and shed new light on our own resource economy and see what lessons could be learned.
Norway's amazing savings account
Norway produces 40 per cent less petroleum than Canada and has one-seventh our population, but has saved more than $600 billion in oil revenue and counting. This is equivalent to about 140 per cent of Norwegian GDP, or about $120,000 for every man, woman and child in the country. In contrast, every Canadian is in the red about $16,000 due to our $566-billion national debt.
While Canada is eliminating 19,000 public sector jobs in an effort to balance the budget, Norway is debt-free, enjoys full employment and has fourth highest per capita GDP in the world. Canada is twelfth.
Beyond economics, Norway is an obviously fortunate place to live. It is routinely ranked number one in the world on the Human Development Index, is the world's best-governed nation according to the Democracy Index, and is the best country in the world to be a mother.
And in spite of being the world's third largest exporter of crude oil, Norway is ranked number three in the world on the Environmental Performance Index. Canada is thirty-seventh (behind Nicaragua, Albania and Colombia).
And while some Canadian politicians dismiss Dutch Disease -- an oil-driven currency eroding manufacturing exports -- as a discredited theory, the Norwegian government has prioritized avoiding this economic malaise for decades by strictly investing their oil wealth outside of their country.
Norway's national consensus
As a Canadian accustomed to bitter regional and ideological debates, perhaps the most striking characteristic while visiting Norway was the remarkable level of national consensus around the development of their oil industry. No one I met with (including representatives from the environmental movement) were advocating scaling back or shutting down existing oil facilities. There were no ongoing protests nor the heated political rhetoric that has become so commonplace in Canada.
Such broad public support has seemingly been earned through strict oversight by Norwegian authorities, a superb safety record achieved through collaborative management, and a taxation regime that benefits every Norwegian through generous social programs.
These benefits include free university tuition, universal day care and 25 days of paid holidays per year. Per capita spending on health care is 30 per cent higher in Norway; funding for arts and culture is more than three times higher than Canada.
Norway's tough deal with foreign firms
How is all this paid for? Since the 1970s, Norway as a matter of policy has collected between 70 per cent and 80 per cent of the resource wealth generated from their oil industry through corporate taxes twice as high as Canada, and a special tax on oil profits. In Alberta, royalties collected on all oil sands production in 2010 were 10 per cent of industry revenues.
Norway also required that foreign companies train Norwegian workers, transfer proprietary technologies to their state-owned oil company Statoil, and in some cases even hand over producing oil platforms free of charge after a predetermined period.
This insistence on national participation has paid off. Companies controlled by the Norwegian taxpayer now directly own about 30 per cent of the nation's oil production, providing another significant source of income as well as technical input on how their resource is developed.
With minor exceptions, Ottawa and the provinces have no equity share whatsoever in our petroleum resources. Canada remains the only nation of the top 10 oil-producing countries (excluding the US) without a state-controlled petroleum company. National oil companies elsewhere in the world now control 52 per cent of global oil production and 88 per cent of proven reserves.
Petro-Canada was created as a wholly owned Crown Corporation in 1975 but it was regarded with suspicion in Alberta as a federal intrusion into provincial jurisdiction. Ottawa's remaining minor stake in the company was quietly sold off in 2004.
Lessons for Canada?
Could the Norwegian model work here? Would industry and investment flee Canada if we were to demand greater oversight and resource rents? This view seems a common refrain from many pundits and politicians, and was a central issue in the last Alberta election.
Yet capital flight has never been a problem in Norway. More foreign petroleum companies than ever are lining up to invest billions, while submitting to levels of government oversight and taxation unheard of in Canada.
In fact these conditions seem attractive to investors since from the point of view of the Norwegian population, the development their oil industry has been a consensual act. This national buy-in by the taxpayers of Norway builds investor certainty, in contrast to the unpredictable pitched battles ongoing here in Canada.
Norway is of course far from perfect and there are several contentious issues around their oil industry. Unlike their Scandinavian neighbours, Norway has made almost no investments in emerging renewable technologies such as wind or solar.
There is also public opposition to offshore oil operations moving into areas of important fish habitat off their northern coast. Many Norwegians also worry that long-standing policies meant to insulate their economy from the sheer mass of oil money are beginning to falter as prices and salaries march ever upwards.
Yet by far the largest oil-related controversy in Norway is actually about Alberta. Statoil became a minor player in the Canadian oil sands in 2007 and many Norwegians feel this investment is unethical. The Norwegian Church Council and others are calling on their government to withdraw from the project on principle.
Obviously it is easier to be critical of petroleum practices in another country but this case illustrates the comparative consensus in Norway around how their oil industry is managed. Put another way, when Greenpeace was recently handing out leaflets to workers outside a Statoil facility in Norway, the oil company graciously provided the environmentalists with hot coffee and sandwiches. Would this happen in Canada?
Coming dispatches from Norway
How has this level of national civility around resource issues been achieved? What lessons can be learned from our differences and important similarities? Can the Norwegian oil experience inform First Nations as they negotiate expanding resource development on their traditional territories?
Norway and Canada share a Northern-European heritage. We are both sparsely populated resource-based economies. We are both well-governed and well-developed democracies with strong social programs.
Yet our North Atlantic cousin has taken a different path and arrived at a very different place regarding resource development. What follows is a series of stories that seek to recast the resource debate here in Canada, and suggest transformative changes on how our own country sees and manages our unparalleled natural heritage.
The Tyee is the only media outlet in Canada to have invested in this journey of discovery. Please come along for the ride.
Next Wednesday: Viking history, and other reasons tiny Norway stood up to the world's most powerful industrial sector. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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wvdk
42 weeks ago
we're rubes
I watched (on TV) as elders of Fort Chip, downstream from the TarPit, asked reps from Norway's Statoil not to invest in an enterprise endangering them. The Norwegians were stony faced. Makin' bucks off of dumb Canucks. And if you think that the Chinese, if we boost their potential supply with a Northern Gateway, will pay anything like what they'll pay now, you're a rube too.
Okanagan Orchardist
42 weeks ago
I object to a couple of generalizations in the article…
First of all, unless you are intimately acquainted with the government of Norway on a daily basis, one can only guess as to how well Norway is governed. The fact that they keep a low profile in the international media, with the exception of the one recent event, could warrant giving them a passing grade in government. It is obvious to a majority of Canadians that “well governed” certainly does not apply to Canada. I don’t need to go over the reason for saying this as most TYEE readers are more than familiar with our Conservative government’s method of dominating the residents of Canada. An oligarchy is not a democratic form of government.
As to our “strong social program,” I think I can safely say that this, too, is going the way of the doo-doo bird. I’m somewhat familiar with the social programs of Germany, Switzerland and Denmark, all of whom have a much higher standard of social security then we do. I would hazard a guess that Norway’s society is looked after much better than ours as well. And why not? A country that has looked after all of its citizens by banking the proceeds of its oil industries is bound to have money to spend on old-age pensions, health and education. We should be so lucky.
chris o
42 weeks ago
Per capita oil production
Carbon intensity and tax policy aside, if Norway produces 60% of the amount of petroleum that Canada produces (40% less) and if they have 14% of the population as Canada, then wouldn't they be producing a whole lot more oil per capita than we are? Like over 4 times as much? If you're looking at this strictly from an economic standpoint, then any taxes you collect in Canada will have a smaller impact than they would in Norway.
Jeffrey J.
42 weeks ago
Oil Corrupts...Absolute Oil Corrupts Absolutely
To modify the phrase made famous by Lord Acton*. But it is also true. Oil (and money...and power) are all related. And they are highly corrupting.
Norway's experience is no different. Norway's form of modern, progressive, democratic socialism has much to be admired. But sadly, even democratic socialism has been unable to respond to global warming caused by the industrial burning of oil and gas.
It's time we faced what we all know in our heart is true: stop exploiting the tar sands. Full stop. Time to radically change our energy policies.
*"Absolute power corrupts absolutely". John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Vox.Pop
42 weeks ago
Canada First
Time to nationalize all oil operations in Canada.
Give the oil companies 99 year bonds (at 2%) in exchange & a 10% stake in the new Canada-First Oil Corporation.
The Alberta government can then write a letter apologizing to their corporate oil masters that this was the the will of the Canadian people & they were outvoted - Canada is still a democracy.
gracie17
42 weeks ago
Canada is pretty much on its way
to becoming third world. We should have been right up there with Norway, instead the downward spiral started with Mulroney's NAFTA and was aided and abetted by every government and every "trade" agreement after that treasonous act. Now Harper is brutally finishing the job of putting the screws to the people of this country by dismantling what's left of our safety net and handing over what's left of our resources to foreign interests. He did say we would not recognize this country when he was through with it.
And it's TAR SANDS Tyee. Please.
Hakuin
42 weeks ago
perspective matters
http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/tom-the-dancing-bug-what-wil.html
deepgreendesign
42 weeks ago
Norway?
Greed is simple: Sell it off to those that provide the best kick-backs.
rantnic
42 weeks ago
Norway?
Norway is a socialistic country whose government seems to be working for the benefit of all it's citizens not just a few. Their model could never work in our capitalist society.
Mulrony's NAFTA was only the tip of an iceberg that is destined to sink our social economy while creating lifeboats for the first class passengers.
Welcome aboard the "Titanicanada".
jimmmmy
42 weeks ago
Smart
Norway maintains its pillars of Democracy, education and moderation. This insures reinvestment in their citzenry ,unlike Canada where the wealth generated is offshored. The population of Norway is similar to BCs alone 5 million or so with very little ethnic diversity among the ruling elites . This allows coherent economic policies, with a minimum of interest groups needing to be pandered to. Canada has 35 million with hundreds of ethnic ghettos and other special interest, many with conflicting demands. Most of our are resources are foreign owned, as are many of the politicians. This analogy or comparison is ridiculous.
Birch
42 weeks ago
Would it work here?
Chances of the Norwegian model working here are slim to non-existent. Canada's continuous opening of itself to foreign "investment" (read takeover) has fairly consistently meant giving resources away at rock bottom prices to multi-national corporations. Given that our government, like that in the US, is largely controlled by corporate lobbyists and right wing ideologues such as Harper and his clones, and given that their view of a healthy economy as one that is as privately owned as possible, the Norway model is completely off the charts.
That being said, it COULD work here. The people who profit most from the current model do not want it to and would fight it tooth and nail, however.
cyberclark
42 weeks ago
To get a better deal we need to change Goverments!
Alberta discounts it's oil by 25% going south in the pipeline. They collect nothing for royalty for Alberta.
It is not a brain challenge to notice the amounts discounted are the amounts we don't collect on our contract deals with the oil people!
Our royalty going south in one easy step!
http://albertathedetails.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-politics-and-finance-of-alberta-and.html
moodyguy
42 weeks ago
1970's
Alberta has been pumping oil for well over 60 years, Norway for about 30. Alberta stopped contributing to its heritage fund in the mid 1980's and has been withdrawing since(currently its few billion value is highly dubious as it is invested in Parks etc.), Norway has $600 billion invested in profit generating industries throughout the world, which unlike CNOOC are meant to generate profit, not secure and control supply.
Alberta is broke, heading into deficit any time oil prices dip even a little. Such was not always the case. 33% of revenue was to go into the heritage fund in the 1970's which would have built up a couple of hundred billion today if this policy had been maintained. Unfortunately, yunder the stewardship of the provincial treasurer of the day, Stockwell Day and premier Don Getty, later Ralph Klein, the province was turned over, lock stock and barrel to the oil companies. People with exactly the same orientation as those who have done this shameful thing to Alberta are now driving Canada into the third world. The policies followed by the Harper Government regarding resource development are the same as those followed by Suharto in Indonesia, by successive governments in the Philippines and by Nigeria, all with the same results. Next, we give away ownership of Canadian firms- good God, what's next? Just declare ourselves a colony!!!!!
Finally some discussion highlighting a country that has done resource development right and has received the benefits with out the costs that we are told, erroneously, that we will have to bear.
Amor de Cosmos
42 weeks ago
Moodyguy is right
- Norways' oil fund (established in 1990) is at over 600 billion;
- UAE's oil fund (established in the 70s) is also at over 600 billion dollars;
- The Saudi's is at over 500 billion (that we know about);
- Kuwaits is at 300 billion.
Meanwhile, Alberta is spening 100% of their revenues on current accounts and, in fact, are in deficit.
In other words, Albertans are giving away billions of dollars a year for, net, absolutely nothing. In fact, they are paying moneylenders interest for the benefit of giving all those resouces away. While it is true that Alberta receives billions in royalties, it is fictional money (from a long-term perspective) given that not one net penny is being saved.
This does not even account for all the future costs that Alberta faces once the world transitions away from oil.
Stephen Harper and his type are, in my opinion, the worst so-called economists in the history of this country (to give him the benefit of the doubt). Given the evidence of some of his other beliefs, the alternate hypthesis is that he is not, and never has been, acting in the interest of the Canadian public at all.
While he cannot take all the blame for Alberta's handling of oil, I believe it is not beyond the realm of possibilities that evidence will someday emerge that will put that man into prison.
Hakuin
42 weeks ago
if you wait long enough...
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/25/canada-oil-gas-shrinking-profits_n_1702807.html?utm_hp_ref=canada
OhCanada
42 weeks ago
Delusional
Canada - the best country in the World. Well, it was maybe in the 70s. Since then it is a serious downward spiral.
Well governed? Hell no!
Well developed democracy? Really? Phony democracy perhaps with a bunch of delusional Canadians thinking this is real democracy here. Think again!
Could the Norwegian model work here? It could but we are missing majorily basic ingredients: political will and working for the mass instead of filling your own pocket!
Maybe Norway is smarter and the 'ruling class' figured it is worth to keep the 'poor' well fed and educated as they will in return keep them in 'power'.
Norway's environmental record shows why they are perhaps succesfully made their country rich from oil.
Which idiot would want to destroy their own home that gives them life? Anyone with some common sense will take care of their land and resources so that the future is secure for those who come after us.
Canada consistently ranks low on environmental standards. Sad really. Even countries with very little - like Nicaragua - are ahead. Shame really.
What we do to day will determine the future our children will live. You can guess then what did our immdiate ancestors did 20-30 years ago.
We are reaping the benefit of that today.
Add Harper to this mix and you'll get a sense of what future generations will have to deal with. If nothing, at least this should wake some people up!
The fact that this whole pipeline/oil issue is not investigated further by the media other than Tyee is a scary and sad reality of where Canada is heading.
And of course everyone is so busy with their iPhones and gadgets that people have no time to pay attention.
While the country is heading to a brick wall full speed the crash will be painful and perhaps even deadly. It should surprise no one.
Thank you for the coverage. Looking forward to more.
Booker
42 weeks ago
Pricing
It seems that the capitalists running the Alberta government don't know how to price their product. They aren't charging what the market will bear, perhaps because the oil companies run the province.
I think that the difference between Alberta and Norway is that Alberta is a typical, corrupt, petro-state. For cultural and historical reasons, Norway has managed to break that mold. Twenty or thirty years down the road Alberta will wake up like a drunk after a bender -- sick, broke, and blaming others for its problems.
alive
42 weeks ago
Very simply, really!
Why is it so hard to grasp that Norway is where it is because its citizens had the brains to elect sensible people, who actually cared about the country and its people!
Maybe we should try that some day?
Maybe we should quit listening to the spin that the media dispenses every day?
Bruno96
42 weeks ago
Reality
It's supposed to be about People & the Environment we live in; Not Money!
Corporations: Same rights as a human being in a Court of Law, MINUS the Humanity Factor.
Anyone else think we're in for bigger troubles down the road with these "entities"?
Skywalker
42 weeks ago
Agreed alive!
It is all possible in Canada. All we have to do is stop electing morons to government.
pwlg
42 weeks ago
Norway's oil workers on strike, Statoil lockouts workers
Norway offshore oil workers went on strike in June and were ordered back to work by the Norwegian government on July 9th after a 16 day withdrawal of their labour.
Despite having a sizable savings account of $600 billion the Norwegian government cancelled the pension add-on benefits for workers who retire at 62 rather than 67 which is the official retirement age in Norway.
Offshore oil workers wanted the right to retire at 62 with full benefits. Perhaps not all is as rosy as we are led to believe.
Is Norway's oil production declining, past its peak? You bet. Since 2001 production has been declining but since the Norwegian government has a 40% direct stake in its oil and gas resources, unlike Canada which has none, it is able to control the output of its production to ensure longer benefits for its residents.
Instead of rushing to pump as much oil out as possible for an immediate return they will control production for long term results. Oil will only get more valuable as supplies decrease of course.
Norwegian oil companies have interests in unconventional tar sands and conventional oil interests in other parts of the world.
Norway is not immune to oil spills though. It has had its share of spills in the North Sea. The latest spill was in 2007 where 21,000 barrels were let loose onto the surface of the North Sea. In 1977, more than 100,000 barrels of oil spilled into the North Sea from one of the largest producing platforms, the largest oil spill to have occurred in the North Sea, and was caused by a incorrectly installed safety valve.
pwlg
42 weeks ago
production cost differences between Norway and the tar sands
I think before determining whether Norway gets a better return from its resource you have to take into account that the national government benefits directly and not some province. The Norwegian government also has a sizable stake in the resource besides royalty revenues. It is an owner of the resource and owns production facilities (40% of the industry). Canada and Alberta have no stake in the resource besides royalties and taxes.
There is also the question of whether or not extracting oil in Norway is cheaper than extracting oil from the tar sands. I believe the Alberta government has provided tax and royalty incentives for companies to invest in tar sands production. The federal government has also provided incentives by lowering corporate taxes and providing direct subsidies for new technologies.
Norway also gets a bigger buck exporting their oil than Alberta.
RickW
42 weeks ago
rantnic
I think we shouldn't label ourselves a "capitalist society" without a lot of prior blushing.........
alive
42 weeks ago
I'm done blushing!
If I am red in the face it is from anger!
I am mad at my fellow citizens for being so stupid as to elect these morons, year after year--- forever claiming that NDP is not worth even trying ---- How could it get worse, I ask?
Colin65
42 weeks ago
And Norway was wise by not
And Norway was wise by not joining the European Union, so they are not being dragged down by the Euroflu.
realisticman
42 weeks ago
How Can You!?
How can you all reply with such blind accepting adoration at any article?
Google the supposed facts and learn for yourselves.
They're going into the sea. Right now.
26Jun2012/541
Norway's Ministry of Petroleum and Energy on Tuesday announced the 22nd licensing round on the Norwegian shelf
14 are in the Norwegian Sea and 72 in the remote Barents Sea, north of Norway in Arctic waters
The Norwegian Petroleum Directorate said it was detecting increasing optimism and interest by oil and gas companies in the untapped Barents Sea."
Dutch Disease?
"July 9 2012 (Bloomberg) -- Norway’s Finance Minister Johnsen is putting pressure on the country’s banks to rein in mortgage lending to over-indebted households as the government grapples with the growing threat of a property bubble.
Banks have “an obligation to say to people I think that by taking a loan this size you might get water over your head,” Johnsen said in an interview. “Norwegian households have never had such a high proportion of debt compared to their net income ....”
NO public debt! Well, excuse me!
"Public debt (General government gross debt as a % of GDP)
2012* 49.6%
Public debt (General government gross debt as a % of GDP)
2008 2009 2010 2011 2012*
54.3% 48.9% 49.6% 49.6% 49.6%
The country’s financial regulator and economists including Yale University’s Robert Shiller have urged Norway’s government to take seriously the threat of a full-blown housing bubble and its disruptive potential. Europe’s second-largest oil and gas exporter has watched property values soar even during the euro area’s debt crisis, as borrowers lean on near record-low interest rates and Europe’s lowest unemployment rate."
Robert Shiller, the co-creator of the S&P/Case-Shiller (SPCS20) home-price index, said in January Norway is in the grip of a house price bubble, while the International Monetary Fund on Feb. 2 warned of real estate and credit market risks in Norway.
The central bank estimates private debt burdens will grow to about 204 percent of disposable incomes this year. The FSA in December turned a recommendation that credit standards be tightened into an official guideline and told banks to cap loan- to-value ratios at 85 percent from 90 percent. The decision has yet to filter through to credit markets.
Norway’s house prices rose an annual 8.4 percent in January, according to the Real Estate Brokers Association, while consumer credit growth hovers at more than 7 percent. Household debt is growing about three percentage points faster than incomes, Baltzersen said....
So. What are you saying with this glorious report? We should invite the Norwegians to exploit our off-shore oil, like they have?
Sounds like home.
And, we shouldn't accept that Mulcair guys' statement about Dutch Disease because Norway hasn't got it?
Oil is good for them so it should be good for us too, we just have to drill baby drill?
EscNor
42 weeks ago
Norwegian, Canada bound
While Norway avoided joining the EU we still follow the majority of their directives and laws. But have avoided the economic headache.
Norway has its issues (long ques for operations, the Jante Law, and some people do become destitute and starve) it is quite good at ensuring that the _majority_ of the people have access to what they need to live a comfortable life. Labour unions wield huge amounts of power, the media is quite free and has less knee-jerk-comment-pieces (last election, during the debates, representatives from the leading parties mixed up which party stood for what and made a few... cosmetic mistakes; the next day there were no articles in the major papers ridiculing them or calling into question their ability to lead based on a few minor mistakes), there is a focus on helping others (when I was young “dugnad” was quite common) and an understanding that the better others have it, the better we have it.
I may sound like a bit of a cheerleader for my own nation but I am still planning to move to Canada though. For one you don't seem to have the Jante Law and an inherent distrust and dislike of people expressing intelligence outside of the fields of Engineering, Gas and Oil. There is a spread of American-ism but you can still stop it!
10B
42 weeks ago
How ridiculous!
How can you compare Light North Sea Brent to Heavy Oil Sands Bitumen? All oil is not equal. First off, one sells in the international market for about half the price as the other. Secondly, one costs about 100% more to produce after about 500% more in capital costs and asset retirement obligations.
Not only should you not be comparing these two different resources you shouldn't be comparing the countries at all! Norway has little to no immigration (language hurdle) and has very little geographic and industrial differnces. Thus, their population remains relatively stagnant and they all agree the majority of the time.
People really have to stop making these grandiose critisisms without doing their homework! As for all the people commenting that our province and country is going down hill; grow up and stop complaining. If you went to Norway or just about anywhere else in the world Canada's model is applauded and envied.
10B
42 weeks ago
Holy hypocrisy
How can you compare Light North Sea Brent with Heavy Oil Sands Bitumen? All oil is not equal! One sells for about half the price of the other internationally and costs twice as much to produce after about %500 more in capital investment and asset retirement obligations. You should also not be comparing the demographics of the two countries. A closer comparison should be drawn between Norway and Brunei.
And I could just see the NDP announcing that they were going to cut health care and social security to buy a %40 stake in what they continously critisize as dirty oil. Because they have no voters in Alberta.
Pick a side of the argument!
freewilly
42 weeks ago
I dont know whats more dangerous
I dont know whats more dangerous a country's state owned oil company or mega corporations addicted and dependant on the same drug, oil. As the article states Norway is putting little effort into alternative energy.
Agreed its a better system than what we have, but Norway doesnt have the most stellar record of environmental practices. From fish farms and sea lice, acid rain, greenhouse gases and peculiar forestry practices.
RockyRacoon
42 weeks ago
Wait our trade deficits will only get worse with the pacific and
other trade deal Harper is making behind closed doors. Wait corporations of any stripe will live high off the hog and the Canadian people will be treated as serfs and told it's their own fault for being lazy and we shoul dthank our lucky stars we have these wealth creator's coming in here and developing these resources for us.
RR
Sine Nomine
42 weeks ago
Somewhat informative
Colombia is not spelled Columbia.
Other than that, the article was somewhat informative if a little shy on actual data.
I think if you'd mind a little more data, you would find that Canada and Norway are not so far apart when it comes to oil.
David Beers
42 weeks ago
Sine Nomine
re
"the article was somewhat informative if a little shy on actual data."
please note this is first in a multi-part series
and thanks for the catch on spelling of Colombia. We'll fix it.
G West
42 weeks ago
Public debt to GDP
Maybe we should look at Canada....83.5%...or the moribund UK - 85.7%...or even the US...104.1%.
Norway is nothing at all like home...
freewilly
42 weeks ago
Jante Law
"For one you don't seem to have the Jante Law"
Yikes, never heard of it until now, but after some reading, that sums up an attitude in our little village. Scary shit! Thanks for that.
andsbc
42 weeks ago
realisticman
"So. What are you saying with this glorious report? We should invite the Norwegians to exploit our off-shore oil, like they have?"
Canada's public debt (debt to GDP) was 84% in 2011.
I think if you reread the article you'll find the author was trying to suggest that Canada's current approach to selling bitumin is not as economically beneficial for Canadians as it could be.
There's no perfect system to be had. The main point is that socialism is not going to ruin our economy, as so many fear it will.
G West
42 weeks ago
Socialism
Isn't going to ruin an economy that has already been wrecked by the ravages of out of control free market capitalism.
Socialist countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark are doing just fine - thank you very much; Celtic tigers like Ireland and speculative bubble economies like the US and Iceland (until recently) not so much..
Amor de Cosmos
42 weeks ago
realisticman
The higher cost to produce bitumen actually means that the government should reap more benefits, not less. While their royaly percentages could justifiably be a tad lower, this should be more than made up for from government revenues that result from the production process itself(because the costs are born by the companies, and taxes paid by the workers as well as the companies).
So what's the deal?
Are you just really really really committed to causing serious environmental damage while giving away hundreds of billions of potential dollars in the process?
I encourage your attempt at comparitive analysis. I will warn you, though, that a comparative analysis of the world's oil economy will not support your implied position that Canada has been doing it right.
This trillion dollar scandal needs more attention. Thanks for tackling it Tyee.
RickW
42 weeks ago
freewilly
A strategic resource should NEVER be left in private hands. Might as well privatize the military.........
G West
42 weeks ago
RickW
Are you still using the same email as a few years ago?
Mine's still
RickW
42 weeks ago
R/Man
http://dirtyoilsands.org/news/article/pundits_question_economic_value_of_oilsands
Only about 10% of the economic benefits spill out of Alberta. That means when you exclude the oil-rich province, the rest of Canada gets mere 0.2% blip in GDP thanks to the controversial oilsands
The "contribution" to Canada's GDP is out of all proportion to the damage it has caused to manufacturing. So "that Mulcair guy" could button up the tar sands and what would be the loss?
zalm
42 weeks ago
Hah!
"Canada remains the only nation of the top 10 oil-producing countries (excluding the US) without a state-controlled petroleum company."
Does so. China's NCOOC state-owned company bought Nexen. If we're not careful, china's state-owned companies could wind up owning a lot of Canada's oil future.
Not that this is important. As long as proper royalties are paid to the taxpayers on withdrawal of the resource, it matters not who supposedly "owns" the companies. It's all going to be sold to the user who can pay the most anyway.
The oil's not our,s it's not China's and it's not anybody else's either. Perhaps those who have a problem with that should l;eave it in the ground until the whole question of how you own something you can't put your arms around or take with you is settled.
After all, Canada seems to have a serious problem with the idea of royalties, or any other levy on taxpayer-owned resources. We can't wait to give the stuff away...
The Solar Guy
42 weeks ago
The Oil Barons of Alberta
"Fleecing the Sheeple" How about those Oilers, We are all just Modern Day Romans and the Empire is on the slide.
RickW
42 weeks ago
zalm
All of western "development" has depended on cornering a resource, and holding onto it no matter what the circumstances.
People cannot grasp any other way of "doing business":
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099348/
Quotes
John Dunbar: [at the celebration of the buffalo feast, noticing a big Sioux man has his Lieutenant's hat] That's my hat... that's my hat!
Big Warrior: [in Lakota, as all becomes quiet in the tent] I found it on the prarie. It's mine.
Wind In His Hair: [stands up, in Lakota] The hat belongs to Lieutenant.
Big Warrior: He left it on the prarie. He didn't want it.
Wind In His Hair: Well, you can see he wants it now. We all know it's a soldier hat. We all know who wears it. If you want to keep it, that's fine. But give something for it.
[the Sioux takes his knife and sheath off his belt and gives it to Dunbar]