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BC's Paralyzed Child Protection System

If Judge Ted Hughes can resolve the latest 'near stand-off', he'll chalk up a rare win in a century of setbacks.

By Tom Sandborn, 16 Feb 2011, TheTyee.ca

Children and Family Minister Mary Polak

Minister for Children and Family Development Mary Polak: In talks with Hughes.

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Ted Hughes, the respected retired judge who authored a landmark report on child protection services in B.C. half a decade ago, is trying to rescue that system -- again.

Hughes is holding discussions with the premier's office in hopes he can help resolve a long simmering dispute between the Ministry of Children and Family Development and Mary-Ellen Turpel-Lafond, the current incumbent in the office (the Representative for Children and Youth) that was created in response to his 2006 report.

In November, Hughes described conditions between the ministry and its watchdog agency as a "near standoff", and called on Premier Campbell to intervene.

Since then, the representative has issued a special report to the Legislative Assembly in calling attention to the ministry's failure to report to her office some injuries experienced by children receiving its services, and a second report underscoring her concern that the Ministry failed to properly review seven out of 21 infant deaths that occurred for children receiving services between 2007 and 2009.

Turpel-Lafond has recently issued what she labels as her final report on government progress, or lack thereof, in fully implementing Hughes's recommendations. She notes: "The representative estimates that less than half of them are complete or fully operational. The disappointing reality is that far too many Hughes recommendations have never received the attention they deserve, and at this point likely never will."

Asked about this claim, Minister of Children and Family Development Mary Polak told the Tyee by email that she disagrees with Turpel-Lafond about her ministry's record in completing the recommendations of Hughes.

"In some cases this results from the fact that her report did not re-examine recommendations in past reports (2007, 2008). That means that the RCY has not reviewed MCFD progress on many of these recommendations since 2007 or 2008. In others, the work is ongoing in nature (strong quality assurance functions, standards, training) or the context has changed (First Nations are no longer support [sic] the pursuit of regional Aboriginal authorities)."

John Greschner, chief investigator for the representative's office, informed of the minister's position, reiterated that Turpel-Lafond stands by her judgement that more than half the Hughes policy reforms have not been fully implemented.

Hughes himself declined to comment on this issue.

A year of conflict

The flurry of critical comment from the representative's office at year end capped a year of conflict between Turpel-Lafond and the provincial government. In May last year, Turpel-Lafond went to court to demand access to cabinet documents she needed in order to discharge her duties, a move that Minister Polak dismissed as "a waste of scarce resources," at the time.

Within a few weeks, Turpel-Lafond won a ruling on access to the contested documents, an event that was closely followed by a government announcement that it was withdrawing proposed legislation that would have closed the door to such access in part, some observers thought, in response to an offer from Hughes to mediate in the dispute.

But the troubles between the representative and the government continued through the end of 2010, with Turpel-Lafond reporting in a December statement that the Ministry for Children and Youth was systematically failing to report to her some of the harmful incidents involving children who were receiving services.

For example, under a ministry reporting protocol called CFS Standard 25, the representative was not informed of an incident involving a mentally challenged child who was left alone with the body of her dead mother for days. Turpel-Lafond noted that she only learned of this incident through the media.

Turpel-Lafond said the government left her out of the loop by relying on a reporting protocol, CFS Standard 25, that is outdated because it existed before the Hughes Report and the passage of the RCYA. The same protocol was inadequate, Turpel-Lafond said, because it created a category of "serious incidents" that allegedly did not need to be reported to her office, including such obviously grave matters as incest and sexual assault.

Turpel-Lafond asked the ministry to file to her office a plan to remedy this shortfall in reporting by Jan. 7. The ministry has yet to file such a plan. However, both the ministry and the representative's office told The Tyee that discussions about a new protocol for reporting critical incidents are ongoing, and Minister Polak emphasized in an email to The Tyee that all deaths involving children receiving services from her ministry are regularly reported to the representative.

The unresolved dispute between the ministry and representative, it appears, is about reporting of harm less than death, and about the definition of the phrase "critical incident."

A century of turmoil

An opposition observer believes that the representative's office has been treated with "disdain" this year in the government's response to her funding requests.

"Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond made a compelling argument for a modest funding increase to her office so that she can keep up with the workload of advocating for kids and investigating critical injuries and deaths of children in the province. The B.C. Liberals provided less than half what she needs," said Doug Donaldson, New Democrat MLA for Stikine and the deputy chair of the legislature's finance committee in a release dated Dec. 8, 2010. Donaldson said that Ms. Turpel-Lafond had requested $776,000.00 to fund five new staff positions, but the government essentially cut that allotment in half, only providing her with $334,000.00 for that line item in her budget request.

In this context, Hughes has once again made himself available to try to improve the troubled relationship between the representative and the ministry.

"I am in discussions with the premier's office," Hughes told The Tyee. "We are endeavoring to resolve the issues."

This is only the latest chapter in a long chronicle of trouble, scandals, investigations and sometimes frantic efforts at reform and restructuring at the ministry. A series of reports in the past 15 years have rendered scathing assessments of B.C.'s treatment of children, including the Gove report in 1995, B.C. Child Advocate Joyce Preston's 1999 report "Not Good Enough," and Ted Hughes' 2006 report.

But matters of child welfare policy and practice have been contentious in this province since the end of the 19th century. In 1892, the Alexandra Orphanage opened at the corner of Homer and Dunsmuir in downtown Vancouver. In 1919, the province's first Superintendent of Neglected Children was appointed, and by 1927 the province's first big inquiry into the failures of systems designed to protect children (the BC Child Welfare Survey) was conducted, following accusations of ". . . graft, perjury, falsifying of accounts and general scandalous conditions" in the operations of Vancouver's Children's Aid Society.

Scroll forward to the beginning of the 1960s, when Ruby McKay resigned her position as superintendent of child welfare, saying:

"It was no longer possible in the face of the government's restrictive policies to fulfill the responsibilities of Superintendent of Child Welfare. The job simply couldn't be done without more staff and money. . . Despite many personal pleas for help, the government did nothing."

Responsibility spread too thinly?

During the decades that followed McKay's resignation, child welfare policies continued to be controversial when noticed, but too often far from public attention in B.C. Gradually the horrors inflicted on aboriginal children in federally sponsored residential schools in the province came to light, and, as those unlamented institutions were closed, the provincial welfare system absorbed the population that had previously been segregated, until, by the end of December, 2010, according to MCFD spokesman Darren Harbord, 55 per cent of children in ministry care were of First Nations origin. Harbord was not able to tell The Tyee how many of the 84,000 children in the province who had come to ministry attention and had a file opened last year were native.

In the 1990s, public attention was drawn to shortcomings in B.C. child protection services by the tragic life and death of Mathew Vaudreuil, who, despite innumerable contacts with the ministry, was not protected from an abusive mother, who, horribly damaged herself, in the end killed her son. This outrageous failure of child protection led to the Gove Report and its list of proposed reforms. However, despite the best efforts of Justice Gove and many dedicated social workers, the system continued to malfunction, and yet another scandal led ten years later to the Hughes report, with its own long list of suggested reforms -- source of contention between Turpel-Lafond and Mary Polak's ministry.

The Gove report notes:

"When Matthew died he was five years and nine months old. Not including supervisors, 21 ministry social workers had been responsible for providing him with services. At least 60 reports about his safety and well-being had been made to the ministry. He had been taken to the ministry. He had been taken to the doctor 75 times and had been seen by 24 different physicians."

Clearly, when it comes to reforming a broken social service system, more is not necessarily better. The theme of unproductively multiplied entities and interventions recurs in the Hughes report, which notes that in the decade between Gove and Hughes, the ministry churned through nine different ministers, eight deputy ministers, and seven different directors with lead responsibility for child protection.

Churn has slowed: Polak

According to Minister Polak, since the Hughes report the rate of change has been a bit more modest, although she still notes in an email to The Tyee that "Tom Christiansen was Minister from Aug. 2006 to June 2009, when he decided not to seek re-election. I became responsible for this portfolio in June 2009, and have remained here since that time. Prior to Mr. Christiansen was the Hon. Stan Hagen. The current Deputy Minister has been in place since 2006. There are currently two Provincial Directors responsible for child protection services."

For Adrienne Montani, head of the child welfare advocacy group First Call in Vancouver, a key reform lies outside child protection agencies in the larger economy. She points out that in 2008 B.C. again had the worst numbers for after tax child poverty in Canada, a dubious honour it had held for seven years straight at that point.

Montani calls for government policies like a guaranteed annual income and a living family wage program, both of which, in her view, would help reduce the crippling role that poverty plays in creating and exacerbating difficulties in children's lives.

Montani also supports the call by Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond for a comprehensive home visiting nurse program across B.C. as a way to protect early childhood health and development, especially in low-income homes.

Linda Korbin of the BC Association of Social Workers, echoing the concerns of Ruby McKay in 1960, told The Tyee recently that MCFD needed more professionally trained social workers and more adequate resources. Referring to the Gove, Preston and Hughes reports, Korbin said:

"Every one of these reports is a wake up call, but no one is waking up. This is a crisis that requires more than a defensive response from the government." [Tyee]

Tom Sandborn reports on labour and health policy issues for the Tyee. He welcomes your feedback and story tips at tos@infinet.net.

52 Comments:

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  • shepsil

    1 year ago

    How does one negotiate with those responsible for the problem?

    The BC Liberals, by ignoring the problem, have shifted the responsibility of the suffering being endured by these children, onto themselves, the BC Liberals.

    You don't negotiate for children, you take care of them.

  • pianosaurus rex

    1 year ago

    negligence

    Honestly I would question the label. I believe they are Liberal in name only. I would not be so generous to call this a government; this is simply a group of thugs that are relieving the province of the gains, financial and otherwise, made in the last 100 years or so.

    People who make deliberate plans to underfund the most disadvantaged children in our society have a name for sure; it begins with A and ends with E and I am not referring to the name Annabelle.

    Hard to comprehend that many of changes have not been fully implemented since Matthew.

    This is not foot dragging this is negligence plain and simple. Class action lawsuit on behalf of the children perhaps?

  • off-the-radar

    1 year ago

    it's not a stand off

    it's not a stand off, and it's not a paralyzed system and it's not a "personality clash" either.

    It's a government that does not give a flying f*** about kids in care or kids and families living in dire poverty.

    This attitude has been clearly demonstrated over the past ten years by the Liberal government's punitive welfare provisions and lack of support for people who are working and poor.

    See the 2006 BC Progress Board report (still relevant) on this topic. Note the board and office were then gutted for their temerity in reporting on the problem and making recommendations.

  • Yvone

    1 year ago

    incompetent Provincial Liberal Government to blame

    Yes, the child apprehension system is a mess. The blame can be laid squarely at the feet of the Provincial Liberal government. Cuts to social services and the court system are having a huge negative impact on families and children in poverty, and in the end when increased numbers of children end up in foster care, it costs the taxpayer more money at the end of the day. BC has seen a large increase in children in care in the last 9 years. Add to that, cuts to the court system means parents wait years and years to get their cases resolved, because BC is short 16 judges and courthouse staff, all because the government refuses to fill vacancies.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    But oh, BTW...

    The BCNDP have NO PLAN, NO PLAN to fix these problems. The BCLibs are doing quite nicely. Yesterday as we work to put your party even further into the fringe... this was a QP performance to behold but clipped much due to 3000 character limit:
    ---------------
    M. Karagianis: This January the Representative for Children and Youth released a report into the deaths of 21 infants. After examining the tragic loss of those children, the representative's number one recommendation was the development of a child poverty plan that identifies strategies to address all aspects of child poverty in this province.
    So my question is to the Minister of Children and Families. Will this government develop a child poverty plan as requested by the Representative for Children and Youth?
    ...
    Hon. M. Polak: In British Columbia we have seen the fastest rate of decline in child poverty of any province in Canada, and there is only one reason why British Columbia's poverty rate is last in Canada. That's because of how high it grew during the time of the NDP.
    ...
    Hon. M. Polak: There is no question that the best plan to elevate a family out of poverty is to make sure that they have a way of earning a living. We had a target of creating jobs. We've created jobs. We had a target of lowering costs for families. We've done that. We had a plan for lowering taxes. We've done that.
    All that a child could expect during the 1990s was that they had a one-in-ten chance of living in a family that was on welfare. That was a shameful record, and I'm so proud that that is not being repeated under this government.
    ....
    We have the lowest child poverty rate in British Columbia since 1980, according to Statistics Canada. As a result of the investments we've made, we've had the fastest decline in child poverty of any province in Canada — 46 percent since 2003. That is in stark contrast to the time in British Columbia when child poverty reached its peak, and that was in 1996 at 18.1 percent.
    ---------------

  • mary jane

    1 year ago

    very few

    It has been a long time since any government has truly protected the children or the people of BC NOT one liberal gives a shot about anyone who needs help in bc. If they cared we would not have
    Child poverty
    homelessnes
    seniors needing help
    9% raise in hydro costs
    etc

  • shepsil

    1 year ago

    Christy Fan's [COMMENT REMOVED] diatribe typical BC Liberal spin

    The BC Liberals are about greed and withholding our tax dollars from the most vulnerable in our society. They believe in punishing those that don't have the ability (thru no fault of their own) to take care of themselves.

    Unfortunately, the BC Liberals don't know what human empathy is. They think the aggrandizement of their former leader, via a developers wet dream, the Owelympics and the funny man's red mittens are the way to heaven or nirvana.

    We only need to remember one thing, that in the 2 year period of 2007-2009, 21 children died because of the [UNSUBSTANTIATED CHARACTERIZATION REMOVED. -MODERATOR.] neglect of the BC Liberals. They [UNSUBSTANTIATED CHARACTERIZATION REMOVED. -MODERATOR.] ignored the Hughes report, because their extreme greed and vanity forced them to do so.

    May the world have mercy on their souls.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    shepsil

    a) Most of my comments were right out of a QP draft transcript
    b) Your link is to a BCNDP ad, not to proof that BCLibs don't care
    c) What is YOUR plan?

    Failure to plan means planning to fail... or something like that. Sort of like no alternative budget means no plan means nobody takes you seriously but as fringe.

  • bfearn

    1 year ago

    Come on,

    let give our poor 'conservative' government a break. They simply can't care for kids when they throw a party that uses and/or costs over $10 billion.
    What part of this don't you understand??

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    By all means post the link to the actual data that says child poverty is lower now. Because everything in the media has said the exact opposite.

    As for a plan, the government should reverse its cuts to the Ministry of Children and Families.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    bfearn, just remember the BCLib true record...

    "We have the lowest child poverty rate in British Columbia since 1980, according to Statistics Canada. As a result of the investments we've made, we've had the fastest decline in child poverty of any province in Canada — 46 percent since 2003. That is in stark contrast to the time in British Columbia when child poverty reached its peak, and that was in 1996 at 18.1 percent."

    Perhaps it's time for our own Tyee ReSpun (for a rising tide of prosperity for all w/ an uplifting tone) on the Right...

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    a few links from the media

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/24/bc-child-poverty-report.html

    http://www.straight.com/article-218164/adrienne-montani-child-poverty-got-worse-bc-under-liberals

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-child-poverty-at-play-in-21-child-deaths-childrens-advocate/article1885671/

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    Still repeating a line you can't back up?

    Do you really want to stand on Ms Polak's lie that child poverty in BC has never been higher than it was in 1980 under the Liberals when they were called Socreds?

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Frank

    Not convinced Polak lied.

    Skeptical?

    Possibly.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    There's one way to prove she didn't. Post a link to the actual stats showing child poverty in BC was never higher than in 1980.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Frank

    I am trying to find the link. But I trust Min Polak to tell the truth... or be outed.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    Well, that's loyal of you.

    I assume you know that child poverty in BC has been the highest in Canada for 7 years in a row?

    Which by definition means that it wasn't highest in Canada before that.

    And since poverty is going to rise and fall based on federal policies as well, BC's relative position tells us a lot.

  • realisticman

    1 year ago

    Frank

    Since you are posting links to articles in the Globe, I'm sure you also read this:

    "Ms. Turpel-Lafond examined the cases of 21 children who died in B.C. before the age of two between 2007 and 2009. Fifteen of the 21 children were aboriginal, which has raised fresh questions about the government’s current apprehension and placement policies for members of this community.

    About five years ago, the province, under pressure from aboriginal leaders, decided that, all things being equal, it was best to put aboriginal children taken from their parents into the care of relatives or someone else in their community.

    While Ms. Turpel-Lafond supports the idea in theory, she concedes that in practice it can often do more harm than good. In some cases, the policy is proving deadly.

    “There’s no question that the lives of children are being compromised by leaving them in conditions of abject squalor, where they are not supported by any kind of prevention plan and are not safe,” Ms. Turpel-Lafond said in an interview.

    Which is a braver statement than you know. It’s impolitic, you see, to suggest that the current policy might not always be in the best interests of aboriginal children. ..."

    This practice and this situation is a substantial contributor to the problems in this province but who is ready to face the tidal wave of wrath by even suggesting that these children should be elsewhere? Who is brave enough to subject themselves to the torrents of invectives of political incorrectness to help these poor children?

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/gary_mason/bc-failing-its-aboriginal-children/article1889613/

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    r'man

    Gary Mason is trying to defend the Liberals by saying that although they were in power and made the decision there was nothing they could do against those all-powerful natives?

    Seriously?

    Have you read what Paul Willcocks had to say? He's less forgiving than Mason is of BC Liberal foibles.

    We could also look at what the Tyee has said on the matter but I know you wouldn't accept that.

    Besides, the ministry budget has been cut since 2001, hard to argue with that no matter how much time you have to write some spin.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Gary Mason

    says "about 5 years ago"...

    So what was happening before 5 years ago? 2003 was more than 5 years ago and yet in 2003 the ministry budget was cut by $70 million.

    2004 was more than 5 years ago and that year the cuts to the ministry totaled $195 million.

    The number of investigations also fell. A quote from our good friend David Shreck back in 2003 may be in order :

    "If nothing has changed, as Hogg claims, then how does he account for a drop of more than 20% in the number of investigations into child abuse and neglect? At the staged cabinet meeting, Hogg said "When we look at the children coming into care, about 65 percent of them come from single-parent families on income assistance, and in many cases they need a little bit of support to keep their family together - perhaps a child care worker, perhaps some respite care, perhaps some training in parent effectiveness and those types of things." At that point Premier Campbell cut off his presentation. No one asked how it could be that welfare could be dramatically cut by the Campbell government without there being more cases of suspected, and possibly real, abuse and neglect of children. No one asked for the information that is presented here which shows that things have changed. No one at the staged cabinet meeting took the time to put a little heat on Hogg because the taxpayer paid televised propaganda show was all about providing excuses for more cuts."

  • DPL

    1 year ago

    Polak will soon have another

    Polak will soon have another master, but the 'Don't blame us" line will continue. The kids don't mean a thing to her or her Deputy Minister, who of course answers to Gordo not the minister

  • morechatter

    1 year ago

    Is one to believe this government is incompetent

    After all these years in office and holding the Olympics the Liberals in their new era of riches couldn't get it together so children wouldn't die? They got to go to Africa to hire someone who is desentized to children dying and being abused? I'm not buying into the lies in fact as I recall Christie was Minister of Families and Children and there was a death of a young child under her care. So it is safe to say the Liberals will need what another 3 terms before they come up with a viable plan?

  • morechatter

    1 year ago

    How many more children need to die?

    Before the Liberals get it together because the impression I'm getting children dying is the plan because it is exactly what has been going on for years. So guit the bs okay face the reality these children had to with their lives.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    "children dying is the plan"??

    You have no idea if some friend or relative of the Minister - who BTW, was a child poverty statistic & is a single mother - or MCFD employee is reading this. Frankly, I think this is really hurtful rhetoric. Bordering on bullying - no wonder it was Christy Clark who did Pink Shirt Day and not say, Joy MacPhail or Tom Sandborn.

    Comments I find offensive and beneath the belt include:

    "a group of thugs"

    "a government that does not give a flying f*** about kids in care or kids and families living in dire poverty."

    "NOT one liberal gives a shot about anyone who needs help in bc."

    "The BC Liberals are about greed and withholding our tax dollars from the most vulnerable in our society. They believe in punishing those that don't have the ability (thru no fault of their own) to take care of themselves.
    Unfortunately, the BC Liberals don't know what human empathy is. They think the aggrandizement of their former leader, via a developers wet dream, the Owelympics and the funny man's red mittens are the way to heaven or nirvana."

    WORDS HURT. Remember what happened to Congresswoman Giffords in the US and the blame hurled upon political rhetoric? Is that your guys' intent?

    Can't some of you debate policy like Frank? Or Bill Tielman?

    In fact this tweet is flying around from a senior BCLib gov't employee: http://twitter.com/stephen__harris/status/37671856546775041 - "child poverty significantly worse in 1990s. And, best way to get kids out of poverty is for parents to have jobs. Our plan."

    Let's debate that and cease demonizing.

    Let's find a way to help instead of hurt.

    Let's focus on real solutions.

    Thank you.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    What, no apologies?

    Christy Fan, you've been shown up in prime time along with your Ministress Cruella De Ville, and you've not one word of apology for repeating a patent lie, and failing to prove your smarmy post with one lick of fact.

    And you've not one word of apology? That's sleazy. No, that's beyond sleazy - that's political, as only a neo-con can be.

    I wish there was an "ignore" button on this site, particularly for your nonsense. At least R'man goes looking for support for his point of view before it comes out in prime-time.

    You? Just another Karl Rove, "judiciously creating realities that the rest of us study..."

    Not. Just losing my dinner is what I'm doing.

  • zalm

    1 year ago

    Frank

    You're a sapphire. Thanks for the reminder.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    zalm

    I take Minister Polak at her word. Granted, PAB could back up w/ documentation her charge but why would she lie in The House? It's against BC law.

    Also why isn't the BCNDP looking into this? Oh, that's right... because Min Polak has a point.

    Your cyberbullying tone really missed the point.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    Actually the NDP has looked into this but I didn't think you'd care to read what they have to say on this subject because you always dismiss anything from the NDP.

    Here's what the NDP says :

    "In response to the latest scathing review by the Representative for Children and Youth, the B.C. Liberal children and families minister is claiming they've actually done a good job of reducing child poverty.

    Minister Mary Polak told CTV news, "Our rate of child poverty since 2003 has dropped by 46%. The only reason we're last in Canada is because where we started was so far back."

    The part Polak left out was that they didn't start from so far back after all - the B.C. Liberals created the problem when they took government in 2001. Just look at this graph adapted from the 2010 Child Poverty Report Card by First Call that clearly shows the dramatic rise in the disparity between the national average child poverty rate and B.C.'s child poverty rate after the B.C. Liberals came into government:

    Prior to 2001, B.C.'s rate of child poverty was either the same or lower than the national average nearly every year since the 1970s.

    Following the slash and burn program cuts of the first term of the B.C. Liberal government, child poverty rates in B.C. spiked in 2003, something we still have not recovered from.

    B.C. has ranked as the province with the highest rate of child poverty in Canada for seven years running. Figures from 2009 during the darkest part of the recession have not yet been reported.

    B.C.'s New Democrats are advocating for compassionate and pragmatic solutions to address our social, economic and environmental challenges, including comprehensive and targeted poverty reduction legislation."

    The BC Liberals have been in power for 10 years. They'd like us to believe that hasn't been the case.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Minister Polak

    If you look at the graph that the BC NDP reference (link provided below) you'll see that in the past child poverty in BC was pretty much the same as Canada's as a whole. Which makes sense. Child poverty will rise and fall here depending on the economy and federal policies. So when Paul Martin was slashing transfers to provinces in the mid 1990s you can see that child poverty rose in all of Canada, not just in BC.

    After Campbell took power you can see the divergence from the Canadian average and reaching the unprecedented level of almost 25%. That can't be blamed on the economy or federal policies.

    Whereas, Minister Polak suggested that under the NDP child poverty was higher in 1996. That's only true compared to 2008, in actual fact child poverty was lower in BC than the Canadian average in 1996.

    And as you can see from the timeline, Minister Polak saying that the only reason child poverty has been high in BC is because it was so high under the NDP is a lie.

    http://www.firstcallbc.org/pdfs/economicequality/3-reportcard2010.pdf

    go to page 5, fact sheet #2

  • Grania

    1 year ago

    Rotting from the bottom up

    The budget for children and families has consistently eroded since the Liberals came to power. Children were placed at high risk in favor of cheaper programs andor support programs that were slashed and this has not changed. Upper management has been given higher salaries and bonus payments for things like reducing the number of children in care irregardless of the frayed safety net. The Ministry is bursting with chi chi positions where a real client is never seen....policy analysts and rather useless consultants and...and...etc. None of Hughes recommendations have been realized and none of the goals duToit had when she arrived have been reached. Line workers do not know what she is talking about half the time. Children in BC have been sacrificed on the alter of big business. The Ministry is just as successful as every other initiative of this corrupt government. Strong and caring social workers have left in droves...gagging as they go!

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Two questions then...

    #1. How credible is First Call really? The perception on the BCLib street is that they're out there as lefty anklebiters trying to make us look bad. But that's the perception, may not be reality.

    #2. How did Minister Polak make those statements in The House on Tuesday?

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    Whatever you think of FirstCall is immaterial as the numbers are from StatsCan. What higher authority would there be other than StatsCan?

    As for the Minister's statements are you saying no one has ever "fudged the truth" in the legislature? It happens, its just spin and everyone does it. At best one could say she's being very selective about her numbers.

    Kind of like when she said child poverty has never been lower than it has been since 1980. Well, as you can see from the chart, out of 3 ways to measure that (absolute, percentage and relative percentage) she's accurate about the percentage but wrong on the other two measurements.

    Kind of like Clinton saying he never had sexual relations with that woman, I guess its accurate depending on your definition of sexual relations.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Frank, just so you know

    I have a friend in the Victoria press gallery looking into the matter... :-). At least he and his colleagues are a more effective, more loyal opposition than the "the weaker party and its ideology which has already been pushed to the fringes".

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    There's no one in the Victoria press gallery that is an "opposition" to the current government. However, I would agree that "loyal" is a good word for them.

    As for "the weaker party and its ideology which has already been pushed to the fringes" (of the media). Yep, that would be us NDP.

  • David Beers

    1 year ago

    Administrator

    First Call 'credible'?

    'Christy Fan' commented that he/she isn't clear on how 'credible' First Call is when it presents information bearing on government policy. First Call is a coalition of dozens of groups including the United Way and the YWCA. The full list is here.

    http://www.firstcallbc.org/about-coalitionPartners.html

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Frank, then David

    Frank: There's PublicEyeOnline, there's whomever the Tyee & Georgia Straight send, there's more. But yes, you guys are on the fringes.

    David: I see no business representation. I also see little to no acknowledgement of the contributions BCLibs have made to cut child poverty. Just a perception.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    PublicEyeOnline is on the fringes. The Tyee is a website. And I didn't think the Georgia Straight even had a journalist in the Leg.

    As for First Call, do you know of a business organization that wanted to be part of First Call and was rejected?

    And, using your logic, I can now dismiss all data coming from organizations that don't have left-wing members as part of their leadership? You realize that means the Chamber of Commerce can be ignored?

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Frank, sorry

    Eyes roll.

    You smear a friend of mine as "on the fringes" when he can haul in MCFD Min Mary Polak on a Sunday morning like Andrew Marr in the UK can haul in just about anybody he likes or the late Tim Russert could in DC, USA.

    You forget that the Tyee has a legislative reporter.

    You don't realize the key word of perception.

    You and your people have no plan to fix child poverty, or involve those who actually create the wealth to help fix in the conversation.

    Sorry, eyes roll. Sighs emerge. Sorry, it's how I feel.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    If you want to claim that Public Eye Online isn't fringe but that the NDP is, then by all means do so. But you're stretching the boundaries of credibility.

    Also, you didn't answer my question about what business was rejected by First Call and whether we can now dismiss all data coming from organizations that are not made up of left-wingers.

    As for the NDP plan, since when does the NDP not have a plan to reduce child poverty? You shouldn't go making things up when you don't have an answer, it doesn't look good if you want to talk about "perception" and "credibility". It also puts you in a glass house on the subject of eye rolling. You should use the time you spend on dismissive posts and instead use that time to investigate the truth.

    You'd find people would take you more seriously.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Using ChristyFan logic...

    These are things the Liberals have no plan for:

    1. Reducing unemployment
    2. Reducing our debt
    3. Increasing the median wage
    4. Reducing child poverty
    5. Improving educational outcomes
    6. Improving healthcare outcomes
    7. Protecting BC's environment
    8. Improving our standard of living

  • G West

    1 year ago

    Christy Fan

    You expect 'anyone' to respect your anonymous friends?

    As an anonymous poster to any website you can't seriously expect to be taken seriously.

    Drop your label and tell who you really are and identify your so called 'friend'.

    Otherwise, you have zero credibility - just like the minister.

    She's been tasked with doing the hard work of looking after children in care.

    There is ample evidence that she hasn't done that in a responsible way.

    End of story.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    G West, then Frank

    G West, If I leak the person's name before a story, it makes his/her job harder. I know who you are and I know you feel Min Polak is a homophobe which is rather far from the truth.

    Frank, the BCLibs have a plan for all 8. I can flood this webpage w/ links. I doubt I could for the BCNDP unless you admit First Call is a shell for them.

  • G West

    1 year ago

    UNH! Sorry bud

    You have NO IDEA who I am...If the BC Liberals had had a plan and NOT implemented it then they are even worse than they appear to be.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    ChristyFan

    GWest beat me to it. If the Liberals had a plan and didn't implement it in the 10 years they've been in power then they really are worse than we thought they were.

    For example, if they had a plan to reduce debt why did they instead pull out the "Increase the debt to absurd levels" plan?

    Why were they the only provincial government in Canada who implemented a plan to reduce the median wage?

    Why does BC have the highest unemployment rate in Canada west of PEI if the Liberals had a plan to reduce unemployment?

    The only thing the Liberals have proved in office to those of us here on the Tyee is that they shouldn't be in office.

    As for First Call, define "shell".

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    BC business also an NDP "shell" apparently

    "a report for the Business Council of British Columbia which showed that 29 percent of BC children arrive at kindergarten not meeting all the healthy development benchmarks they need both now and in the future. Their recommendations included a call for income support policies to mitigate child poverty."

    From the previous link

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    zalm

    Thanks but your posts are far more informative and fun to read than mine.

  • BDD63

    1 year ago

    STOP BEING MEAN TO CRISTY FAN YOU MEAN OL' MEANIES

    Can't you all tell that CHRISTY FAN just wants everyone to be nice and to take the time to see how pretty Min Polack is and what a nice smile she has and what nice smiles all the Liberals have if y'all would stop all this chatter chatter chatter of dull ol' facts and blah blah blah and those depressing dead children just DON'T THINK ABOUT THEM!

    Deep breath heartfelt sigh.

    Just think about nice things instead. Now c'mon everyone and I mean everyone, all you pretty Liberals and I even mean you kooks out on the fringes I'm not forgetting about you no I'm not! Roll eyes. Lets all have a group hug and think about nice things for once. Like Min Polack's pretty smile. Nice! See? Everything's nice. MMMMMM nice.

    GODDAMN YOU FRANK I SAID NO DEAD CHILDREN! It's people like you that prevent the Liberals from eradicating children altogether. I mean eradicating child poverty. Altogether. Roll eyes. More nice smiles please everyone. Keep up the nice hugs Cristy Fan.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    It's outbursts from BDD63...

    That cease conversation. Enuf said.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Christy Fan

    I don't know, I kinda liked hearing BDD63's input.

    As for the conversation, it died yesterday when you showed you had no arguments in defence of the BC Liberals except bluster.

  • Christy Fan

    1 year ago

    Frank, I did not

    Like the smeargun.

    I think you just don't get it or care for balanced dialogue when comments from BDD63 are allowed to blitzkrieg and reduce the dialogue in a way even Roger Ailes - CEO of FOX News - wouldn't.

  • Frank

    1 year ago

    Christy Fan

    You need curtains for that glass house you're in. Use your "way back" machine to re-read your posts about rolling eyes, NDP "shells" and bluster instead of using reasoned arguments.

    As for "balanced dialogue", I tried but you don't even accept StatsCan data as evidence. Reasoned dialogue is simply not what you're looking for.

  • BDD63

    1 year ago

    Ceasing Conversation Was Not My Goal

    and 14 hours later the conversation is still going strong.

    Enuf said.

    Forgive me as I go off topic but I just glanced out the window and there is a spectacular full moon tonight.

    We now take you back to the previous conversation already in progress.

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