Same old...

The "proposed" tax cut is a bribe, plain and simple. More of the services Campbell talked about upon which BC'ers depend, such as health care, education, etc., will be cut further to make up the lost revenue and in all probability we will see further increases in fees, etc. In one pocket and out the other.

My opinion of the Premier and his government has not changed one iota after his speech last night. If anything it has worsened.

Anyone have any idea how

Anyone have any idea how much debt is now owed by the government of BC?

How would you like to pay for this?

Less Taxes means less services. Would you like cuts to Health care, Education or Social services. The liberals will have another reason to privatize, which will drive up the costs of these services even more.
The question is if you are really going to profit from the tax cuts after adjusting for the "user fees" that will come with it.
I will have money to go to IKEA but no cash to pay for my medical needs!

just my morning rant

“…every child that leaves grade four will be reading at grade four level, will be writing at grade four level and will be doing math at grade four level”

Wow, does Mr. Campbell have any idea regarding the myriad capabilities students bring to each and every classroom in BC? What happens to all the students who aren’t meeting these Grade 4 expectations? Do they fail Grade 4 and repeat until they meet expectations? Does this mean challenged students will remain in Grade 4 forever since they may never be able to meet expectations? Maybe he has no plans for these students to ever make it to mainstream Grade 4 – after all, if there’s going to be testing of capabilities prior to schooling, and students needs will be met by “tailor(ing) educational programs to meet their learning needs”, perhaps the students who don’t ‘cut the mustard’ at testing time will be streamed into something else besides mainstream schooling so their stats fall off the mainstream radar.

As for the tax bribe, Mr. Campbell knows his government will lose at the voting booths next time around, so why not hand a troubled economy and deficit over to the next governing party (persons if independents) so they can be blamed for having to raise taxes. In the meantime, watch programs and services disappear at an accelerated rate!

how much we owe

One will never know for sure how much this province owes unless one becomes the auditor. Most likely if one has that position you are muzzled by legislation surrounding the job.

No-one believes this guy any longer; Campbell could claim the sky is blue; nobody would believe it. I never watched the televised address. There would have been nothing new for Campbell to add to an already aggravated situation.

I heard for the first time yesterday on radio a promotional ad extolling the virtues of the HST. The ad informed me that a single person could be receiving a rebate cheque annually of 230.00 or something like this. A family of 4 could receive up to 900.00 or more in rebates. The narrator then excitedly told me that 1 in 4 British Columbians are receiving rebate cheques already and I could be one of them too!
So 25% of our population already cannot afford this new tax? Not much of a program there Campbell.
A desperate move by a desperate man who simply cannot admit when he is done; or rather when we are done with him. The only question that remains is how many Liberals will be standing after recall or the next election whichever comes up first.

Zero Percent Tax Rate

Hey, how about a Zero Percent Tax Rate. Like Afghanistan and other third world enclaves, run by warlords.

Fewer taxes, no services, the rich will get richer. The rest of us, not so much (well, ok, not at all).

Total insanity by a doomed premier with no grasp of how to care for a society.

Great coverage.

Complete and utter garbage

$240,000. for a commercial - to announce a reduction in taxes - for the average working British Columbian - of about $7.00 a week.

Gordo: Here's a bulletin for you. Somebody driving back and forth to work, using 100 litres of gas a week, is going to be paying an extra $6.00 each week (come July 2011) just for the stupid money laundry phony 'Carbon Tax'...

That's an extra dollar a week for someone earning $50,000. a year. Without even taking into consideration the additional transfer of tax points to business because of the HST.

Enjoy your new 'choices' folks...and remember, all the folks who're making more than $150,000 get the same tax reduction you do.

This man is a walking disaster....How deep a hole can he dig for himself AND the province.

Some LEADER.

unbelievable

A known liar spends 240,000 of you dollars on a commercial to promise you a tax cut without telling you where the cost cuts will come from and you are suppose to believe him. Unbelievable!

I didn't watch Gordo's

I didn't watch Gordo's info-commercial last night cuz I knew what my reaction would be like if I did; a strong reaction to put my foot thru the screen. This morning I had a strong reaction to throw the radio against the wall.

Gimme A Break Already Campbell

A 15% tax cut?, Is this man losing his mind or what?. Tax cuts do nothing for low income people or the very very poor. By voting for this guy there will be MORE program cuts, core public services and the result of this governments choices, higher fees for all, more privatizing more programs and services. Lets consider his speech for just a moment. This government LIED since the beginning of this entire mess. Gordon Campbell looks desperate, his government still chooses to ignore the major issues facing BC today. Education Cuts, Social Service Cuts, Seniors Services Cuts, Legal Aid Cuts, Downtown Eastside Advocacy Support Cuts, and many others, if we as a society elect the BC Liberals again that elected body will move BC way too far to the right and people will suffer under said elected government. Bottom line is that British Columbians are not stupid or ignorant, tax cuts will do nothing except cut more programs. You decide but I am not voting for these guys as a) I don't believe any promise that Campbell makes and b) They still don't care about the lies, corruption and ignorant as any government can get,recall is set to begin, let's take these guys out of office and restore BC for the future.

Tea Party Time

Right-wing, populist anti-tax sentiment that seems to be sweeping the land.

1. The Nova Scotia NDP increases the HST to 15% and yesterday receives a paltry 5% in a provincial by-election;

2. Right-wing nutbar Rob Ford promises tax cuts, reduced services, and privatization and sweeps into Toronto's mayoral chair;

3. Right-wing Tories promise a reduction in the GST from 7% to 5% (opposed by the NDP) and make substantial gains in the seat count and popular vote in BC at expense of NDP;

4. BC Libs introduces the carbon tax, which policy was supported by the 2007 NDP convention, and Libs support drops in opinion polls; (NDP opposes same because they see a 'populist" anti-tax opening)

5. BC Libs introduces HST, which is apparently good public policy, and Libs support drops in opinion polls; (NDP opposes same as they see another 'populist' anti-tax opening)

6. BC Libs introduce second largest personal income tax cut under $72,000, yet NOW NDP opposes same and are on the WRONG side of issue politically;

Right-wing, anti-tax populism will always win at the ballot box. Just go ask Vander Zalm and Delaney... and Harper, and Rob Ford, and Dexter.

Just a Bribe and more BS

Again this Premier and cabinet think they can buy the next election. They believe we're stupid! What they're doing is putting the province into bankruptcy. What he's really saying if you read between the lines is "We'll keep reducing taxes so there is no money to pay for the infrastructure then declare that only private enterprise can run the province better. Then we'll sell it all off to our friends so they can continue the rape of BC unabated. Please believe us."

This moron thinks we'll swallow more BS!

an attempt to piece us off

I believe we are watching the terminal tailspin of a man with no conscience. He believes will forget the litany of broken promises , judicial interference and pandering to the alleged "elite" corporate organ grinders for this Monkey.
He is a one man wrecking crew for the citizens of BC. From preaching an open and transparent government to reducing government bureaucracy. Nothing has been true , nothing will be true and the manipulation of the judiciary is disgusting.
He loves semantics to try to baffle the people and disguise his true animosity to working people: From tearing up contracts, selling Crown Corporations to off loading corporate taxes on the working poor. Adamant about not raising the minimum wage as it will break the employers but then in the same breath expect us to believe the business man (employer) will reduce his profit to give us all a better price break because of the HST.
Come on Pinocchio give us all a break and probably your Party too, just shut up, resign or keep quiet until the Recall.

Played by Executive power

Indeed with one hand King Campbell giveth whilst with the other he take it away - taxes and user fees aplenty, and a steep decline in corporate taxes to public treasury. Cynically, he is playing the electorate like a fiddle, and his HST foes too. Such is the dysfunction of the institutions of governance that centralizes excessive political and fiscal power in the executive branch/ Premier/Prime Minister's office with minimal checks and balances, riding roughshod of a Legislature rendered impotent during a majority by any party. What would self-rule look like, what new rules of governance do we need to govern this our home - British Columbia? Which political party is addressing this huge democratic defict or merely hopes to take over the existing institutional arrangement to then satisfy their own agenda.

The last desperate act of a despot.

You can tell when the BC Liberals are desperate and here on this issue the PAB is out trying to sell the Liar because a 15 % tax cut neutralizes any lies the premier has told or may tell in the future. Funny though, I don't find any but a few think this will work. Is anything Campbell says believable. Now he say low and middle income earners will get a tax cut but fails to tell us how much that means to the high end of the income scale. Nor does he tell us which services will be sacrificed, which assets will be sold off, which governments functions will be privatized and what extra fees will be needed to cover the shortfall. We were after all suppose to be in hard economic times OR was that a big lie as well.

So he knows he won't be around long. Lay a few political land mines for those who take over...you know, like leave them a bigger deficit hole just like the socreds did the last time.

It all works if the public is ignorant.

HELP!

James had an opportunity this morning on TV to respond to Gordo's new taxcut, and all she could do was to call it irresponsible?
Did she not read David Schreck's article explaining why it only benefits the rich?
Did she not feel it was a good opportunity for her to pass on that observation?
Merely dissing the taxcut may make people think she has no concern for the poor!
Why do we have a leader who cannot think on her feet?

I don't think Campbell needs

I don't think Campbell needs a mental health assessment, but the people who vote for him certainly do.

He'll be sitting in a string of very profitable directorships in 3 years, so what the hell does he care about loss of services ?

People should also be explained by the opposition that profits are also a form of taxation and while they're needed for the survival of businesses, there should be public accountability and scrutiny over the amounts of profits taken from the public, the same way as there is over taxes.

Ed Deak.

Gorge rising

I tried to watch the (8)video(s) but my gorge just kept rising at all the lies. 'When we first got into office we cut income taxes by 25% so you had more take home pay' - Mine was reduced by more than 30%. 'We reduced MSP premiums' - how does doubling count as a reduction? That's not the way of any math I'm aware of. And on, and on...

Disgusting.

Vote for change

VOTE!...People need to get out and vote for change to happen. It does no good for people to make comments here and then never get out and vote. If you don't like the HST then get out an vote in the referendum. If you don't like the Liberals then vote them out. Tell people around you to get out and vote. Drive people to polling stations. Organize ways to get people out on election day and the referendum. VOTE!

Vote for Change

I am extremely unhappy with the HST that shifts taxes away from big business and piles it on the consumer so I would certainly like to vote for change. However, I would at least like to have some idea of what change would look like. Since the NDP is the only real challenger to the BC Liberals I wish the party would clarify its tax policy: would it eliminate the HST? scrap the carbon tax? increase taxes on the working class ($50 - 100k/year)?

@Realife

Opposition can`t give that kind of detail, they have no access to the gov books...And, any good idea from the opposition revealed this early gets scooped and stolen by the grueling party!

Sheesh

@The Persuasive One

Wouldn't a well-meaning party want good ideas put into action ASAP regardless of who implements them?

Hopefully, party positions will become clearer as we move closer to the next election.

The center position

As the ever-widening gap between the left and right becomes more apparent, why have none of the other political parties in this province been given any chance from the Tyee to explain their platforms?

Maybe I am looking at this incorrectly but why are all the media outlets ignoring other choices and just continue to make and promote this left/right comparison?

Seems long past time that we should be looking at all the other alternatives.

The sordid fact is that it

The sordid fact is that it is no longer governments who govern, but big business, with the power of imaginary money.

If the NDP, or any party, would dare to speak up, or bring in policies the corporate mafia won't like, they'll just wreck the BC, or Canadian, economy and force the public to beg for mercy and dictatorship

There are enough examples in history that show that democracies are not pushed over by barbarians, but by their own peoples, to lazy to think and make decisions.

We're in the same position now, with fascism growing every day, calling themselves "conservatives", forced on by the corporate mafia and their priesthood of economists.

Ed Deak.

Seriously, used car anyone?

There isn't a person in this province who would buy a used car from Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberals.

Unfortunately, the NDP will pull the same BS when its their turn

Peter Dimitrov ~ "What would self-rule look like, what new rules of governance do we need to govern this our home - British Columbia? Which political party is addressing this huge democratic deficit or merely hopes to take over the existing institutional arrangement to then satisfy their own agenda."

Good questions because large, central governments are always removed from the people and ultimately a suckers bet. Further, there is no party going to lead anyone out of this. Political Partys should go the way of the dinosaurs but the electorate needs it saviour.

Vote independent. It is the only way to play by the rules and change government. We need not convene on a street and get arrested; we need not overtake the government and get shot; all we need to do is pass the word to our fellow citizens.

A VOTE for a political party candidate is a vote to give up your representation and allow the power players behind the party, the corporate donors, to set the agenda. This truth has not changed in 100 years and is only getting worse.

@sunshine coast girl - about the elephant & George

George's (Lakoff) work shows that we, as human beings, are hard wired to be empathetic. So you must be right about Gordo. His complete lack of empathy, as evidenced by his cutting of socially important programs and ministrys for his pet projects; roads, bridges & out of date skytrains. Yet time and time again, he contradicts himself by trying to portray himself as empathetic, but his actions portray a very sick and greedy man. Very sad for all of us.

@NicS

...the antisocial and aggressive behavior (recall Gordon Campbell's reaction to criticism from a fellow caucus member Elayne Brenzinger) of some individuals lasts their whole lifetime and is often characterized hy impulsivity, narcissism and a high degree of callousness..

Paul Frick has suggested that such callous/unemotional character traits are a result of unusually low levels of fear-induced inhibitions which may lead to an impairment of the development of moral socialization and, in fact, conscience...

Please see: Snakes in Suits - Paul Babiak and Robert Hare

Psychopathic Personality Traits

It really is pretty darn clear that Campbell displays the traditional traits of antisocial personality disorder as defined by the APA:

... a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood....

Additionally, "antisocial personality disorder is sometimes known as sociopathic personality disorder ... [and] sometimes referred to as psychopathy or sociopathy".

So, we've got a good old sociopath running our government.

Charming, isn't it?

And that's leaving out

the impact of his previous drinking, whether he's at it again or not. It's hard to believe that a Premier of our province could be so uncaring and unempathatic (is that a word?) towards so many...sad, really.

About Smarts..

The ruling class and those they hire, allow, bring on board to serve them are many things, but no one should think they are stupid. They "can be" of course, and from time to time are, but overall they have ruled for a long time, and they do know how to rule. (They can be oily, slick, sleazy, ruthless, and even psychopathic-, but that is something else. Great rulers through history have often been all these things... and still are.)

Knowing how to fix up and cover up your fuck ups is said to be one of the marks of a good carpenter. I would suggest, a politician for the ruling class too. The only question is, are folks smart enough to figure it out and/or see through the tax cut gambit?

I think, for now at least, I will keep my money in my wallet. :-)

There are no firm grounds to be confident of anything... yet.

About "Vote for change."...

"VOTE!...People need to get out and vote for change to happen." PB

And who the hell out there in the status quo serving "party system" is really and seriously change anything?

Nobody... to answer my own question.

Voting right now is like going to an orgy with a soft-on. You shoulda just stayed home instead of embarassing yourself with your naive expectations.

Yeah vote for change?

I suspect that when Campbell and his cronies are finally gone and a new government takes over it will find the cupboard bare. In fact there will be a sea of red ink just like there was in 1991. Then the new government will be expected to fulfill people's wishes with no money or resources left and once more at the mercy of the BC business sector. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when the tax cuts to business are repealed and business no longer has the inside track to the premiers office. All those very rich who benefited from every piece of legislation will object to being equal to the rest of us and finally paying their fair share.

Then in a couple of years time the dogs will be unleashed onto the new government. The media will once again blame the new government for every decline in the world economy and every bit of fallout from the Liberal years of squandering our resources.
Yes there is a method in all this Campbell shite.

Right now the best option is still the NDP. Unfortunately with James that is made more difficult but the new government better be up to the task. The leader better be a very sharp communicator or they won't last more than a term and we'll be right back here.

You need to vote for change. You also need to start demanding that the MSM do more than just peddle the message of the right. You need to get the message to all these political pundits that frequent the halls of the legislature that they need to stop drinking the same bathwater. They all need a dose of common sense.

So don't tell people to vote for change and then turn around and say they are all the same and change is impossible. That suggests you are stuck in the same bathtub as Baldrey, Palmer, Willcocks and the rest.

empathy...

My student loan debt approaches $50,000.00, and I am currently unemployed. If anyone would like to donate their tax cut, I will gratefully accept.

Perhaps this might be the start of "cappuccino affairs" (rather than tea parties) - find someone homeless, unemployed, on social assistance, or trying to finish university, and give them a hand up with your tax money. The suffering and despair I see every day are worsening, and there are real people behind those statistics of child poverty, student loan debt, unemployment, and minimum wage. Please, please - remember us.

One of the better comments I heard on the radio.....

....was a commenter noting that Gordon's promise that "...every child that leaves grade four will be reading at grade four level" was made concerning children who were born when he first became premier.

Kinda hard to hang this one on the NDP.......

Campbell's 15 percent

I'm so glad I didn't watch this $240,000 waste of time. My income is a lot less than $72,000 so I doubt I'll notice much difference when tax time rolls around (which, by the way, won't be a refund reality until 2012). So once again, if there are still some who approve of this B.C. Liberal government, they will be bought off by lower taxes. For me and many others - we just have to sigh (or groan) and wait for the next election.

Can you buy trust?

Surprised, not really as Campbell uses tax dollars for much needed programs to buy back his popularity, while making promises impossible to keep. Almost as impossible as Campbell getting back in. Liberal party leadership convention is coming up in just a few weeks.
Once upon a campaign British Columbinas were promised tax breaks and no HST with promises to leave the good people with their hydro and their rail.
He made promises of openness and transparency and it could be written be careful what you asked for the RCMP may be taking it all in. The premier hasn't figured it out quite yet but the people can see right throught him how transparent can you get?,...

Unbelievably devoid..

..of anything original, enlightening, innovative, intelligent or close to justifying the public expenditure on this tv puff piece. Like someone above so aptly put it -- $240K for an ad to announce (yet) another personal income tax cut? It would be pathetic, if it weren't so offensive to the intelligence of most citizens of this province. This is the Great White Hope of this Liberal party - more tax revenue loss to the public purse? Sounds like the same ol' tune the Liberal gov't called when it came into power nearly 10 yrs ago - and this is still its solution now?

Worse, the new "humbler" Campbell explanation of the HST last night was offensive, patronizing and beyond the pale. Why didn't he call a spade a spade and say, "We're sorry we lied" instead of the euphemistic, "I'm sorry we didn't talk about it more." What does that mean??

Campbell and this entire Liberal government are obviously bereft of any real solutions to the mess their corruption, fiscal mismanagement and utterly destructive governance have left us here in the year 2010. That is about the one piece of news information one could take away from that infomercial last night.

Campbell's "Ridiculous ways"

NDP leader Carole James countered that a TV address was a “ridiculous way” to introduce tax policy.

“I really believe that it was a desperate attempt to try to buy public support,” James said, “without any explanation of where the dollars are going to come from or how the public is going to have to pay for this in another way.”

James said she would not support the tax cut until its details are revealed in the legislature.

It’s the second-largest personal income tax cut since 2001, when the B.C. government dropped rates across the board by 25 per cent. It’s the fifth personal tax cut from the Liberal government.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Income+education+promises+made+Campbell+speech/3737289/story.html#ixzz13iCbZcAd

Changing the debate

As I told you all, dear readers, some time ago, Mr. Campbell & friends will try to change the argument; it is already happening!

What they are trying to do is lure us all into debating the merits of the HST (and indeed it may have some merits); however the real argument is whether or not they lied to us regarding initiation of this tax.

Evidence abounds the Liberals not only denied its initiation, but also privately discussed its initiation frequently prior to re-election. The problem: how could they get re-elected when promoting this new tax? The solution: deny, deny, deny.
So there you have it folks! Don't get sucked into this argument: the issue is not equity, the issue is honesty!

Why is anyone listening to the Liberals...

or the NDP or any other party and still thinking any of them offer real change and accountability in government?

Skywalker ~ "Right now the best option is still the NDP"

Why?

Based on what?

Who told you this fib in the first place?

I agree with Skywalker

The best (and only) other option is the NDP. Although of course they will make lots of mistakes too.

The other option, as I see it, is tantamount to picking up your ball and bat and heading home in a fit of pique.

The system's far from perfect and it sets up a lot of phony folks like Campbell in situations where they can do a lot of harm. However, in a modern co-dependent largely urban society where 80% of the population couldn't manage to feed themselves without help, there is a need for some kind of government structure.

Pretending that leaving the playground to the bullies and morons is a viable option is, in my view, irresponsible.

One thing nobody can hang on Carole James – she is not a control freak and a sociopath.

If for no other reason than that she will be a huge improvement over Campbell.

I'm most curious, G West, how a vote for a party member

...is better than a vote for an independent candidate?

And more importantly, how is party politics bringing better representation to the people?

Need you be reminded that democracy is not "of the people, by the party, for the corporate-party alliance".

I fail to understand how you are so well informed on many topics yet fail to see the obvious shortcoming and establishment-design behind party politics?

My dear Fiat

"If the NDP, or any party, would dare to speak up, or bring in policies the corporate mafia won't like, they'll just wreck the BC, or Canadian, economy and force the public to beg for mercy and dictatorship"
Come on Fiat, you know that they have almost completely destroyed the economy here for future generations anyway. Campbell, like Bushhole did before him, will take everything that's left if he remains in power for the rest of his term.
Somebody said:
"The only thing which ever brought about change was the determined efforts of a few resolute people." You Fiat, are smart and determined enough to effect real change by starting a Recall Campaign today.

I'm curious everybody;

About why you come here and complain when the Recall Weapon is lying lightly in your hand - just waiting for anyone who wants change to use it. It would set such a precendent that the political paradigm would shift forever to our favor. Use it or lose it.

I think I answered that - but here it is again

The best (and only) other option is the NDP. Although of course they will make lots of mistakes too.

The other option, as I see it, is tantamount to picking up your ball and bat and heading home in a fit of pique.

The system's far from perfect and it sets up a lot of phony folks like Campbell in situations where they can do a lot of harm. However, in a modern co-dependent largely urban society where 80% of the population couldn't manage to feed themselves without help, there is a need for some kind of government structure.

Pretending that leaving the playground to the bullies and morons is a viable option is, in my view, irresponsible.

One thing nobody can hang on Carole James – she is not a control freak and a sociopath.

If for no other reason than that she will be a huge improvement over Campbell.

G West, you are adept at rarely answering the question...

head on, as opinion is all you tabled...again.

Knowing 90+% of BC is pissed at the Liberals and Campbell, the best and only option you see is the NDP? Wow, a choice of one for all. Isn't that just what we went through with Campbell, and before him Clark, and before him Harcourt, and before him Vander Zalm, and before him ...

ALL any party, including the NDP, brings to the table is one view, one opinion, one direction, one objective, and a willingness to acquiesce to directors behind the scenes -- none of which is representative of all, or even most of, the people in the 85 electoral districts across the province.

Well, I do understand why we go from the outhouse to the morgue then to the slaughterhouse repeatedly in BC politics. This dogmatic adherence to a system that neither represents most of the people nor the diverse areas just so the voters can claim their vote 'counted' is, frankly, wilfully blind to the solution before us all.

Long-distance Diagnosis

I dislike this government and Gordon Campbell as much as anyone, but I draw the line at giving anyone a psychological diagnosis based on what you see in the media. If you know anything about diagnosis, it's not possible, and it amounts to a cheap-shot character smear dressed up in scientific language to make it seem more legitimate. Attack his character all you want, but please, if you have any decency, leave his father out of it and stow the DSM IV.

Gut feeling

I have a gut feeling that Gordo may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat with his announcement of this 15% income tax reduction.

Let me explain where I'm coming from. Those of us that take the time to post comments on the various blogs are obviously interested in most things political and pay attention to what is going on. However, there are many people that ignore politics altogether or only take a cursory interest during an election. I suspect that many of these people will just take the announcement of an income tax reduction as good news and think little of how it will be financed and what consequences it will have on either future funding for many governmental programmes ot the increasing of the deficit.

I hope I'm wrong, but we live amongst a great number of gullible people that have been easy pickings for politicians that have found that it easy to buy many peoples' votes with their own money.

For once, Carole James made the right comment about withholding support of this tax reduction by stating that she needs to see what will be impacted. I just suspect that the spin that we will be inundated with will drown out the facts.

Where to start

Why is a party better than a group of individuals? You only have to look at the US with it's weak party system - nothing gets done. It's all talk and no action.

Parties are the way we organize disparate viewpoints into like programs that act on problems. And generally they work pretty well. It's kind of like unions or corporations - collectives formed around a group of ideas that take those ideas forward and make change.

And James? There are a couple of people here who'd criticize her if she descended from the clouds on God's right hand.

She's right on the tax cut. It's desperate. It's a bribe not an economic policy. It's the wrong policy at the wrong time that benefits the wrong people. There's not much more to be said and I'm glad she's saying it.

Its a setup

Old Gordo is just setting up James for a quick and mighty fall. He knows his tax cuts are impossible and he knows he will be gone shortly. James will take over and will have to increase taxes immediately which will make her look bad and give her an instant drop in the polls. The Socreds, oops, Liberals will have a new leader by then and James will be a one-hit wonder. The good ole boys in the back rooms of the Liberal party must have come up with this one, they know their "leader" is toast so the next best thing to do is set up Carol James to look worse than she is and pave the way for their next buffoon in a three-piece suit,oops again, leader!

Driftwood.....Our MLA is Bob

Driftwood.....Our MLA is Bob Simpson and we couldn't have a much better one.

There's a recall campaign starting in Cariboo-Chilcotin, where the NDP's Charlie Wyse, again, one of the best and most hardworking MLA's the Cariboo ever had, lost by 88 votes in 3 union towns, to Donna Barnett, a useless party hack.

While we're not voting there, rest assured, that we'll help Charlie the best we can.

Albeit, we also have to be realistic in our expectations. With 40% of the registered voters having to demand a recall, which is almost the same as the overall number who vote in the elections, the success of any recall campaign is highly questionable.

And then, there'll come the threats from the corporate mafia, put into dictatorial position by the presently ruling, criminal economic theory, destroying the world and humanity with the deregulated "creation" of imaginary capital.

Who and how can we stop their crime wave, when they can ruin any society and country that questions, or doesn't submit, to the insatiable demands of their pimps ?

Why do you think Campbell was invited to the Bilderberger gang's secret conference at $16,000 taxpayers' expense ?

His sweet $240,000 speech was the beginning of the propaganda campaign and then come the threats..............

Ed Deak.

samuidave

You are calling for a complete reconfiguring of the political setup in BC.

GWest is talking about an immediate "fix" to an untenable situation.

Both of you are right.

Lies and deception

Of course Campbell will try to buy us with our own money. He did it in 2001 and he believes we will still swallow that regurgitated turd again. Of couse it will benefit the rich more that the real working people and the poor. Of couse the media will trumpet the tax reduction, why not? They benefit the most.

I don't believe there is a word or description left that can explain how corrupt and narcissistic this man and government are. They belong in history as the worst government in BC history. What else can you say? I say RECALL!

Camero.....The BC govt is

Camero.....The BC govt is just one of the, literally hundreds, on the same destructive bandwagon, as part of the system of "globalization", with the strings being pulled by the same gang, all over the world, from behind the scenes.

I'm reading the stories from Europe, they're all the same everywhere, the same copycats.

There's no point in fighting Campbell, or the same puppet cut from the same cloth, Harper, without first fighting the pseudo religious economic theory, that gives them power,and their owners pulling their strings from behind the scenes.

There's no point in replacing either, or all of them, with the same jerks following the same scriptures of the same faith.

As long as economic efficiency is fraudulently defined as "the biggest profits for the smallest monetary inputs", the fraudulent GDP, and the deregulated money creation by the banks is not stopped, and taken under democratic public control, we're just pissing against the wind.

In Switzerland the political parties, the unions, all want to join the deadly EU, but the public, including my friends of the local Swiss colony, are voting against it.

This couldn't happen here, with our governments having dictatorial powers, now ready to sign another phony "free trade" the CETA, with the EU, that will permit foreign companies to take over even municipal services. And they'll get away with it, because the public has no rights to say anything against, or stop the crooks.

Ed Deak.

You're still not listening/reading

If the population of BC was something less than the size of metropolitan Saanich and all of those roughly 100,000 people lived on the lower third of Vancouver Island (where it is marginally possible to imagine that they could feed themselves and manage their own affairs without the provision of formal government services) then they 'might' make a go of running their own little 'independent' self-governing entity…at least for a while and given no extreme health or weather crises.

I say 'might' because unless that group were very lucky in the self-selection process they could end up with 'leaders' who:
a) lacked the skills to coordinate their collective activities; or
b) immediately corralled enough of the power structure to establish a dictatorship of sorts.

In any case, it would be a very dicey few years and, given the average demographics of the new 'nation' of Vancouver Island, I have no illusions about how many of its citizens would still be alive and healthy after, say, five years (roughly equivalent to one electoral cycle).

Ed has been able to thrive where he is and because of who he is...I've been reading him for years and one of the things that always arises when he tells us of his own experiences is the fact that he 'gave up' on mass culture and the Vancouver (urban) fact decades ago. More power and credit to him and his wife – but asking a couple of million people who’ve known little more than city life in a metropolitan environment to do the same, no chance – there would be blood and anarchy in the streets inside of 6 months.

More power to him. But there is no way his choices would work for most of us. We simply have not got the character, the experience, the energy or the skills.

Trumpeting individual democracy and ‘independence’ from the current situation – are, in my view, simply whistling past the graveyard.

We're 'in' the current situation and we are 'of' it as well.

Pretending that a series of 'principled' individual boycotts of the electoral process is going to make any difference is naive.

Sorry.

The best we can do is support and vote for the less worse option – and right now that’s the NDP. They’re far from perfect but they are at least led by someone who understands the need for compromise and consultation.

@Driftwood

I actually agree with you about recall - I think it should be pursued with energy and vigour...

And for those who think that there's no way it can succeed I'd only mention that the same reaction was lingua franca six months ago when the initiative campaign began.

No one thought that would be successful either.

In fact, I suspect Campbell's tax cut gambit is more an attempt to blunt the enthusiasm for recall than it is to try and turn the tide for the upcoming referendum.

The people, love 'em or hate 'em, are going to take the tax reduction and vote 'NO' in the referendum...the idea that 'taxes' (especially progressive income taxes) are bad is so deeply engrained in the popular imagination that it is foolish to expect that anyone can succeed in what ought to be the easiest exercise in the world.

In any case, have a look at this:

http://tinyurl.com/3x55g8x

On Getting Out the Non-Vote I...

"Well, I do understand why we go from the outhouse to the morgue then to the slaughterhouse repeatedly in BC politics. This dogmatic adherence to a system that neither represents most of the people nor the diverse areas just so the voters can claim their vote 'counted' is, frankly, wilfully blind to the solution before us all." samuidave.

While we, "social dem progressives" on the one hand and those of us of the, for want of a better word, "serious/transformative/revolutionary Left" can agree on many things, right now the NDP is increasingly not one of them.

The NDP, as described by GWest, is not the best, or even the only "possible" solution at this time, it is just putting a different face/label change/appearance to the same old problem: a bullshit electoral system that doesn't offer any "real" or "substantive" choices, and is controlled through a corporate media and other "financial contribution instruments" by the same old, same old ruling class. Which at the end of the game gives us the same old, same old result, regardless of which Party, NDP or otherwise, gets the formal power nod. And that result invariably is that, once in power, the new boss is "compelled", whether they like it or not, to behave "pretty much" like the old boss... in turn because, to serve the economy and have any real influence over it at all, you are forced to serve its ruling class diktats=, those who own, control and manage it. Which, were they even really of a mind, has been the NDP dilemma forever.

Conclusion, never try to take a breath when your head is being held underwater by a superior force... Though being water-boarded leaves no options, I grant.

The better course, for those with a "serious change" desire at least, is to refrain from participation in the bullshit, at least for now, and allow the bullshit system to fully immerse itself in its own self-created crisis. As it is anyway... but hastening it, by removing false hopes from the system.

A new dynamic and paradigm has to be focused on creation first, which is where our energies and monies should go. rather than pissed up against the wall of this bullshit ruling class notion of a "democratic system"... Where power is portioned out according to money wealth and money purchased influence possession, which always goes... you guessed it, to the ruling class.

continued next post...

On Getting Out The Non-Vote II...

From previous post...

To get around this impossible dilemma it is first necessary to have a real "street presence" or "power", that leads in due course to a committed power base for challenging the system on all fronts, including within "formal governance" and getting around its media blockades of the "new power". (There is only so much that can be ignored IF the "street power" simply has an overwhelming, unignoreable, unambiguous presence that it brings to the table.)

I am convinced that "voting" will over time doubtless have its place in the fight for socio-economic change. The time is not now however, in an arrangement that ever has the cards stacked against us. This, with all the current players and personalities, is a waster of time, energies and monies.

It is time to take the marbles out of our brains and our mouths, and talk plain. The numbers of persons impressed with such gobbledy gook is rapidly diminishing. (And I'm convinced that the desperation of the masses again, will allow for even an NDP result next election, headed by this sorry crew. But then how many times has the only choice already been for the masses, either tweedle-dee or tweedle-dum... which the NDP has itself now become a member of the ranks of.

GW....Neither the NDP, or

GW....Neither the NDP, or any other party, has a snowflake's chance in hell to change things, until the power is taken away from the multinational corporate mafia, who's dictating and can ruin anybody, any society, from behind the scenes.

I'm not preaching to anybody to move out from the cities, only that the forced urbanization and the destruction of communities, to please the profit demands of the corporate mafia by pimp governments, has to stop, so that people can live and have survival opportunities at any place they choose.

Which is their democratic right, but forced urbanization is nothing less than dictatorship. With 200 schools closing over BC, the writing is on the wall, that there's something fundamentally wrong.

If people could make a living in rural areas, on their farms, ranches, etc. and doing their trades as they have done 50 or 100 years ago, they can now, unless somebody controls the economy and the lives of billions with dictatorial powers, taught in our universities as some kind of goddamn "science" .

Look up who, and how many companies, are controlling the world's food supplies, fixing prices, destroying producers and users alike.

We've lived in Vancouver from 1955 to 79 and moved out, when the city started becoming a "worldclass" pigsty and desperate human zoo.

My wife decided that the business pressures were killing me and we had to get the hell out. She was right and saved my life.

That was when I started researching and studying the causes of what is happening to humanity and who are the criminals ?

Ed Deak.

Ed...

I agree with you completely - but the thing I'm trying to point out is that it took you years, a lot of skill and incredible effort to make the changes you needed to make and get out of the urban rat race. You and your wife are very special people.

Things have gotten a lot worse since you left the lower mainland and the level of ennui and disconnection is, I'd bet, much worse now. I grew up on a small farm and I think I might survive - but my neighbours and friends - including many of my family members - simply wouldn't make it.

Therefore, bad as it is, I'll keep voting for what I think is a less-bad alternative; hoping that things will improve if enough people of good will can agree on doing the same; being active in my community; writing occasionally at places like the Tyee; learning from people like you and trying to convince myself that there is still something worth fighting for.

You're right, there is something fundamentally wrong...The main point I’ve been trying to make is that choosing to stop voting is not the way to address the problem….

15% income tax cut and HST

Here is 25 cents for your pocket and now give us 75 cents for HST!

Whatever your spin Campbell; you are a charlatan!

Changing the Argument

Changing the argument dosen't change the effects of the HST on an economy where residents are 150% over their heads and going down for a recessionary count. It isn't a winner and deny, deny, deny will not make it right. 6% of one or a 12% of the other as residents suffer from empty pockets syndrome and folks knew it wasn't a winner right from the start as made the premier cross his heart. And it isn't like the people haven't seen and heard it all before as Campbell is the King of denial and he isn't going to be so proud of his legacy after all.

More.....People have empty

More.....People have empty pockets and up over their heads in debt because of the dictatorial economic system robbing them blind with deregulated money creation, robbing them of decent incomes through phony "globalization",while increasing costs and loaning them worthless, imaginary money to enslave them.

In the name of "competitiveness" of course.

I grew up in an impoverished country during the depression. People were poor and had nothing much, but they had no debts either, because nobody had any money to lend.

So, which is bigger and worse poverty? Having no money, or being enslaved by indebtedness to imaginary money used as the chains of enslavement ?

Campbell kept repeating that the tax cuts will put more money into people's pockets, but that money doesn't belong to them, because they're in debt, while prices are going up every day in the stores.

You can't find a sickness without going after the causes, or cure acute appendicitis with cold packs on the stomach.

Ed Deak.

On The Cusp...

"You can't find a sickness without going after the causes, or cure acute appendicitis with cold packs on the stomach. Ed Deak."

We do not agree on everything Ed, but amen to this conclusion. You are an honest and sincere man.

We are on the cusp of a serious change opportunity, in my view. (And I'm talking about more than just this next friggin' stage managed election, however it turns out.) Which is where we have to begin to try and get it right.

How, precisely, do we approach incising this cancer from the body social and economic of ourselves... in a way that will renew the health of our species, if possible... and the planet?

What is clear though, is that it is a case of "patient, heal thyself."

Fiat ....

while I agree with much of what you say it just makes it more imperative to topple this government now. We have the tool to do it in Recall and we have caught the nasty thieves in the act. One good province wide rally and this government will be no more than a past nightmare.
Yes, The Recall and Initiative Act requires that a recall petition be signed by more than 40 percent of the voters who were, on the date of the last election of the Member, registered voters for the Member’s electoral district.
But, you have the distinct advantage of having a copy of the voters list and having two months to gather signatures and being able to go door to door. And you have the knowledge that in the last Angus Ried poll 80% of BCers disapproved of this government. Not only would it not be difficult - it would be a shoo-in.
As to some mysterious world force coming here to destroy us if we vote our hearts and minds: Some people might like to but the demand for our resources will reamain strong and a responsible government could legislate carpetbaggers back into the hole they came out of. The alternative is to admit defeat and become another exploited country of second world status. We are already halfway there.

samuidave

I guess I should have stated in an earlier response to you that were I in Bob Simpson's riding, he would most definitely get my vote even if there was an NDP candidate running. Reality suggests that the NDP in general is the only present option to get rid of Campbell and his thugs. If an independent or green had the best chance of defeating a liberal, I would vote for them. I would really have to check out their positions because the green seems to want to be in bed with free enterprise interests and some independents are just flakes.

Then once we have disposed of Campbell we will need to keep a short leash on the NDP. They have a tendency to want to cater to business and that has been made abundantly clear by Carole James.

sustenance...

I see no question that voting for the NDP – and their winning of the next election – would be a great leap upwards for British Columbians in relation to a Liberal government, or whatever the next ghoulish reincarnation of the money mantra cadre is called. One should also consider voting for an independent candidate, if that candidate represents a better individual choice. By all means, let’s sign the recall petitions if we have the opportunity. But these are simply pragmatic thoughts for election day or recall period.

Our political system – like our business system – is broken, for many people simply vote ‘the bastards’ out. (The analogy in business is that people buy the cheapest, for most products and services are depressingly and equally banal. The competition to be the cheapest leads to more crap, along with environmental degradation, the loss of small farms and small business, and a corresponding soullessness in commerce.) Few citizens are happy with politicians – no leader of any party, nor any one individual is going to step forward with the magic to make it all go away, and that is what we find so troubling. The sheer numb reality of living in a world in which buying things is supposed to make up for the colour and warmth and camaraderie of community has taken its toll. Friends, there is much to be done… Support a local artist. Shop for local food, and the best quality, and do with less, if necessary. Connect with the homeless and those who struggle. Go to the library. Walk in the forest. Because the antidote – the only antidote – to the mindless mantra of money is: 1) to deny its supremacy in our lives; 2) to make human connections with anyone and everyone; 3) to become the people we wish our politicians to be.

Money is a medium of exchange, nothing more. When Campbell cuts taxes for those with ‘enough’, if not riches, then he leaves others much more impoverished. And still, we can overcome this. If there is any one message I would dispense to the world it is this: family, community, and culture are both the focus and the wellspring of human lives. Money is not. This message is meant to be written, and spoken, and dreamed, but above all, lived. I hope this point is not too subtle.

Ed

http://www.policynote.ca/disappointing-premiers-announcements-wont-help-the-bc-economy/
Excerpt:
The new tax cut is bad news for BC. Not only is it inequitable, but it won’t do much to stimulate our stalling economy nor will it help the families who are working harder and harder but still living paycheck to paycheck. Here is why.

The new tax cut primarily benefits higher-income taxpayers — those earning over $72,000 in taxable income per year — who will get the maximum tax saving of $616. This is because everyone pays the same rate of income tax on the first $72,000 of their taxable income, regardless of whether they earn $10,000 or $110,000 per year.

In contrast, full-time full-year minimum wage workers, individuals earning under $20,000 per year and low income families with children would not get a single cent out of the newly announced tax cuts. They already do not owe BC personal income taxes.

As was mentioned by a poster, the real return won't be seen until 2012. In the meantime, the expense the reduction is supposed to defray, still must be spent. Just where is that money supposed to come from, Mr. Campbell? Can those who can least afford your tax hike go to the bank and borrow it until the tax refund kicks in?

reactionary voting...

to the scum in office, rather than proactive for a representative of your area and interests, is bewildering to me. I am not saying dismantle government; I am saying put in representatives that represent you and your area rather than a political party controlled by corporate forces.

If we insist on being reactionary, my suggestion of going independent could still come together in one election. All that is needed is to replace the narrow idea that 'we have to get rid of Campbell' with the broader idea that 'we have to get rid of corporate control from behind the party curtain'.

I admit, G West, I may be naive thinking British Columbians might see the over-arching problem of corporatocracy entailing all parties rather than just the administration of the day. But I feel pointing out the obvious is the least I could do.

archer2006~ "Where to start -- Why is a party better than a group of individuals? You only have to look at the US with it's weak party system - nothing gets done. It's all talk and no action.

Parties are the way we organize disparate viewpoints into like programs that act on problems. And generally they work pretty well. It's kind of like unions or corporations - collectives formed around a group of ideas that take those ideas forward and make change. "

You have bought the entire conventional political spiel and misunderstand what a political party does or represents; and your US example misses the mark as well.

How much gets 'done' in the US versus Canada is immaterial as they both serve the corporate states. Both are operated by the party system with a freer vote in the House being the difference. The results are clear that this alone is not enough to cut the corporate strings: All representatives still know who butters their bread; All the propaganda and campaigns are funded by the money-men behind the scenes.

How much hard evidence does one need before accepting that the government, operated by political parties, doesn't care what you think? Go ahead. Change your selection. Here's a coin to help you decide if you are uncertain.

Let independent representatives chosen from the areas battle it out in government. Let them bring your voice, and your district voice, to the table. The agenda should not be determined by the party in power before even discussed by the province at large.

But, hey, if one cannot even see the problem with party politics undermining democracy and representation -- even when it is pointed out, then there is no hope of a solution being found. In a few years we can talk about the ruinous path of the NDP and put back in the rebranded Liberals.

Assigning Blame I...

Where to start?

First, the naive assumption of some seems to be, that the mass of the citizenry in our society have too much and need to learn to do with less. Poppycock.

Masses, certainly of the lower working class orders, the labouring majority, have never had much. Certainly those about me have always lived paycheque to paycheque, and been indebted for anything they did have, typically a need to shelter themselves and make a living, up to their eyeballs. While I am free of debt now, certainly all of my life to here, I have been deeply indebted, and we, really, had no great luxury in our lives. Still don't. (Save for a couple of money sucking horses. :-) If one can call them a "luxury". Mostly they are a lot of friggin' everyday work. Not being able to afford grooms or such. )

So, I don't know what class strata many of you seem to have come from, to get the notions of working class "excess" or "opulence", but certainly, with deeply indebted exceptions, they have not been anywhere about me. (Some tradesmen, or others in specially positioned trade unions, may have a cottage at the lake or an ATV/RV, with little time in their overtime worlds to actually "enjoy" them. But even they, many now with "For Sale" signs on them, to get this "stuff' are typically indebted up to their assholes and working their asses off with long hours to pay it all off. Then WHAMO!... the old lady fucks off with some guy she met on the internet or a lesbian, 'cause he has made the mistake of thinking that was "all" she really wanted. And not small numbers of women create that impression.)

So, anyway , it is time for the naive bs and hyperbole to end. And the system HAS sucked in a great many folks over their heads that the current economic times are grabbing hold by the short and curlies and milking, no doubt. But the mass even of the working class in the crassly materialistic capitalist West lives really quite mundane, simple, not overly comfortable or ostentatious lives.

Certainly we live better than our parents did in the 30s or even much of the 40s, but fer chrissake, they lived in poverty or borderline just above that.

Which is not to say that there isn't a problem of excess, because there is... but it isn't at the level of the average working class Jane or Joe, struggling to get by raising two kids, or to make a second marriage work, both having to work, ships often passing in the night, to pay the goddamn mortgage and keep their heads above water. Where the problem really is, is in quite different parts of town than these folks... and you all know where those are. Or you damn well should.

next post...

Assigning Blame II...

from previous post...

And doubtless, global populations, including the US, less so in Canada, are in serious excess of practical sustainability, these sheer numbers creating an incredible "suck" on resources and the planet's environment as a consequence of sheer mass. But again, certainly in this country, less than two kids even is the norm for working class folks today... a "declining" not "growing" population. (I don't think my goddamn grandkids are going to breed at all, by the signs of it.) The only growth that is, is excessive immigration demand to fill the endless cheap labour appetites of the greed driven economic system controlled by the ruling class privileged elites and THEIR appetites.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, and to stop beating up on the wrong people. Most folks, within the limitations and parameters controlled by the demands of endless growth capitalism, ARE attempting to and doing their part. The problem for them is, maintaining focus as your head keeps bobbing into and out of the deep water of The System's backwash.

There ARE serious problems and there ARE serious excesses in material share and lifestyle... but also a need to look in the more appropriate places and assign blame appropriately. And yes, there is ignorance and blindness and stupidity... more than enough to go around.

samuidave

You make a good point. How do we ensure that in every riding there are credible, bright, independent candidates running who do not ask for campaign funds from interest groups and who can still run credible campaigns against the other party candidates? Then once that works how do the compete with the other parties when there is no chosen leader for the independents them and will not be until they all get into a room in Victoria and pick the best among them.

It is a great idea and likely a lot more democratic than the present system but how to get there without risking another Campbell liberal term to screw us over again?

A tax cut is the answer, again?

Recall that when Gordon Campbell arrived in office, he brought in a sweeping tax cut to 'kick-start' the economy. It failed. I recall the only economist who spoke out against the tax cut was David Bond, then the economist for HSBC. For his candidness, he was fired. He was, however, correct in his critique.

So this tax cut will fail and is purely political. My wife's take on the HST was that Campbell was desperate for money and figured we've been sheeple enough for the crap he's pulled off over the last nine years. Plus, Harper and Flaherty were dangling hundreds of million under his nose to get with the HST program. Hmmm... An addict tempted...

So, if Campbell was hard up for money before the tax cut, how is he going to dig the province out of this new, deeper hole??

Why is it that neo-con and conservative talk to the high heavens about fiscal responsibility, but manage to outspend their liberal and left-leaning counterparts?

Campbell's bogus 15% tax cut

In 2004 Gordon Campbell rammed through Bill 37 to impose a 15% wage rollback on 43,000 hospital and long-term health care workers.

Then in 2010 Campbell returns the 15% which he stole from these workers in 2004 but now, using some twisted Liberal logic,
Campbell wants to take credit for helping families. Will todays tax cuts soothe? Don't hold your breath Gordo!

Interesting article on the

Interesting article on the causes of the present problems, originating in our universities. Glad to see more and more waking up, after I've been writing, basically the same words for 25 years
Ed Deak.

http://www.stwr.org/economic-sharing-alternatives/student-manifesto-for-new-economics.html

Their Kick It Over Manifesto goes like this:

We, the undersigned, make this accusation: that you, the teachers of neoclassical economics and the students that you graduate, have perpetuated a gigantic fraud upon the world.

You claim to work in a pure science of formula and law, but yours is a social science, with all the fragility and uncertainty that this entails. We accuse you of pretending to be what you are not.

You hide in your offices, protected by your mathematical jargon, while in the real world, forests vanish, species perish and human lives are callously destroyed. We accuse you of gross negligence in the management of our planetary household.

You have known since its inception that one of your measures of economic progress, the Gross Domestic Product, is fundamentally flawed and incomplete, and yet you have allowed it to become a global standard, reported day in, day out in every form of media. We accuse you of recklessly projecting an illusion of progress.

You have done great harm, but your time is coming to a close. Your systems are crumbling, your flaws increasingly laid bare. An economic revolution has begun, as hopeful and determined as any in history. We will have our clash of economic paradigms, we will have our moment of truth, and out of each will come a new economics – open, holistic, human scale.

On campus after campus, we will chase you old goats out of power. Then, in the months and years that follow, we will begin the work of reprogramming your doomsday machine.

Panacea Not...

"It is a great idea and likely a lot more democratic than the present system but how to get there without risking another Campbell liberal term to screw us over again?" Skywalker.

My view is, of course, that you are going to get screwed over anyway, regardless. Even though the NDP MAY, and there's no guarantee of that even, tweak this or that a tad. (But in the final analysis, even they will fulfil the "restraint" and "cutback" wishes of the business lobby, even they admit that they are anxious to please. And they are.)

So stop, for now, fussing with that side of it... the short term outcomes of the bullshit electoral system. Instead, focus on what it is really more important to be about.... what samuidave describes and is plumping for. Over the course of which, our energies, manpower and limited monies and other resources go to what is long term important. Including over the same process, carrying out the agitation and building of the "street" movement of the citizenry that these "independent" candidates are going to need to actually carry through what these other parties to capitalism are incapable of: beginning the process of the transformation of society and the economic base.

If we don't at some point do this, just abandon the bullshit system and focus on our own game, we will never get beyond this endless merry-go-round going nowhere. There will only ever always be "another bullshit election" with the same essential going nowhere choices and outcomes.

(Mind, and it is a very big "mind"... so long as the ruling class maintains its current ownership of, direction and reaping of the wealth of the economy (which includes the mass media), they will always have their leg up in any game we attempt to play with them, including fielding "independent" candidates. For if they really wanted, and they will if this became the "desired norm", they are still wealth and power positioned to field and overwhelm with a slate of their own "independent" candidates.

The point being, even independent candidates are not the panacea guarantee either, in the current arrangement of economic and political power. It is this "ownership and control" power that is going to have to be challenged and overcome at the same time, as the only secure guarantee of success.

Still, it has the potential of being another learning experience for the masses and ourselves. :-)

Houdini's Triumph return

No matter what the cost to taxpayers Mr. Campbell will prove that he is 'Houdini' as he will climb and claw his way out of the 'political grave' to the seat of power and corruption once more (snicker snicker).
Mr. Campbell needs a sanity test, as he is clearly out of his mind.
It seems as he may have regressed to the alcoholic haze he was found in on that vacation in Hawaii.

Jerry Munro and Samuidave

OK folks, form a movement and I will join but without that, I'm reminded of that line "The obsession with perfection hinders any possibility of progress". I don't think I have the quote correct but I think I have the essence.

Skywalker

“Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.”

Salvador Dali

yep...

These are the parts I whole-heartedly agree with:
"If we don't at some point do this, just abandon the bullshit system and focus on our own game, we will never get beyond this endless merry-go-round going nowhere." Jerry Munro
"The results are clear that this alone is not enough to cut the corporate strings: All representatives still know who butters their bread; All the propaganda and campaigns are funded by the money-men behind the scenes." samuidave
"...
worthless, imaginary money to enslave them." Fiat Lux

Yes,political parties operate on the mantra of money, how else will they win elections? Same with independent candidates, they will have to have some money, or the exercise is pointless. The message is ground in by the corporate world, by the political world, by the academic world: money is god! We need money! We can do nothing without money! My question is: why do we allow them to do this? Few of us (there are exceptions, they mostly run corporations) would operate our lives on this principle. We sacrifice for our families, and our community, and give up our time and sometimes comfort for our friends and community - this is the way the world REALLY works, on networks of human care and connection.

I preach to no one that they should give up excess, though I admit that being homeless and unemployed it can be difficult to have a balanced view: wage slavery looks good from this perspective. What I say is that if you value forests, you will not allow anyone to cut down all the trees. I say that if you value culture, you will not allow anyone to destroy arts organizations and libraries and impoverish artists. I say that if you value education, you will not allow anyone to starve it. I say that if you value human life, you will not allow anyone to assert it is valueless by virtue of some individuals 'poor choices'.

My singular and overiding and imperative point is that people must speak out about what they value. Now some of us do that very ably; we might make sure that we do not act like our politicians and say one thing and do another, but that is minor. What is not minor is to convince people that money should not be the be-all and end-all criteria for electing a government; for purchasing something, for educating people, for enhancing their lives. If we cannot succed in disseminating this message, we cannot fix anything - the province, the culture, our poor broken selves.

Anyone who really wanted change

Would go ahead full throttle with recalling enough (14) Liberal MLAs to topple this government. The people who are organized to do it; FightHst, have gone mute on the subject.
Which puts the real recall movement in the peculiar position of being held back by the very people who maintain that they are going to initiate recall. Imagine you are walking through the park with your rottweiler and you see a child molester attacking an innocent child. And instead of releasing your dog; who wants to go over there and do the right thing, you instead tighten your grip on his choke chain and dig in your nasty little hooves while the child is raped. Well, that is what the LEADERSHIP of FightHst is doing. And when I point this out on their site, my comments are erased. And other (polite) comments in a similar vein are likewise deleted. Censored. It is so annoying that I think I will get a tee-shirt made saying, 'Get Your Hands Off My Nuts, Bill Tieleman! We don't all work both sides of the street.'

Cut From The Lineup...

"OK folks, form a movement and I will join but without that, I'm reminded of that line "The obsession with perfection hinders any possibility of progress". I don't think I have the quote correct but I think I have the essence." Skywalker.

Ah, were it so easy my friend, but I'm sure you know that. (Though I will keep plugging away at it... until time pulls the plug on me. :-) And it is not a matter even of "pursuing perfection", my friend. Were it perfection we were after, we would not even be here on Tyee, arguing with NDPers and the other parties of the Right to capitalism. :-)

Perfection, to the degree that it actually rises, does so only out of imperfection from the primordial goo. And that's from yours truly. :-D lol You can quote me on it.

What is desirable though, is something that at least works with the potential for movement towards something "resembling" progress and evolutionary/revolutionary transformation worth having. As for the NDP, it is simply outlandishly stuck in the mud, spinning its wheels no less than the rest of us, with no hope, period, of moving beyond the present and the status quo order. (It really only wants the status quo to love it anyway, and to let it in from the cold to be one of them.)

That said, there is no hope of the likes of thee and me arriving at a concencus, at least in this particular time and place. I accept that. Despite all, I am really a realist. And I accept your good intentions, for sure... it being a road however that leads as often to nowhere as to Hell. :-)

We shall continue to debate and discuss anyway however... 'cause the likes of me, and I assume samuidave, are not going to let you NDPers get away with your naive dreams and misconceptions about what good an NDP government will actually do. (And we are your more cutting critics even than the looney-bin Right.)

Besides, I've actually been on the road of holding my nose and voting for the NDP, against my better judgement, for at least as long as yourself, I'm sure bro. And regardless of what Frank says about the Left not having voted NDP anyway, I know that is bullshit. And I don't need a statistician to confirm it for me. But I will hold my nose no longer over any ruling class controlled electoral dry hump.

I want bigger and better things than you folks will ever deliver on the course you are on. You and all the other parties to capitalism are, frankly, not good enough for what I want for myself or the fruit of my loins.

So I'm calling you out for the frauds that you are, after too long already, no less than the Liberals or the Cons, or any other of the current parties to capitalist system governance. I want more. And I'm going to continue to try and persuade the Left and all who want fundamental socio-economic change here on Tyee and elsewhere, to do the same.

Enough is enought. You guys are being cut from the lineup. :-)

A surprising and hopeful find

That is a great link/article from Berkeley that Fiat lux provided.

Gives one hope.

(It reflects so much of what Ed has often expressed here.)

Maybe this world can be rescued after all.

I'll second that Lynn

And, as she wrote, thanks again to Ed...

I copyrighted my Principle

I copyrighted my Principle in 1991. Not for money, anybody can use it free of charge, but guessed that sooner, or later , some bright academics, with letters behind their names, will stumble over the obvious and just wanted to rub their noses into the fact that some old hick in the sticks tradesman has been there before them.

But personal interests are not important. The only importance is that there just might be a chance for humanity to wake up to the biggest crime wave in history.

I'll be happy to make a donation of $100. for the purpose of supplying brooms to the "noted economists of the prestigious conservative think tank, the Fraser Institute"

Ed Deak.

The Coming Storm....

"You have done great harm, but your time is coming to a close. Your systems are crumbling, your flaws increasingly laid bare. An economic revolution has begun, as hopeful and determined as any in history. We will have our clash of economic paradigms, we will have our moment of truth, and out of each will come a new economics – open, holistic, human scale." From economic sharing alternatives.

Hallelujah. Praise all the gathering forces of the Bringers of Real Change/ transformation/ revolution. :-) lol

But seriously, indeed we shall have our moment, even if we need be brought kicking and screaming to it.

The Tea Party Movement in the US is an attempt of the Loony-Bin/Fascist Right to harness the coming time of discontent. For they see it coming too. Make no mistake. And there is indeed a real danger that they will capture it ahead of the forces for progress and co-operation over private greed. But which will still solve nothing, only continue the same old, same old if even more viciously and disastrously.

The Left AND even some of ye other "milder" Progressives need to be paying attention to this Tea Party phenomena in the US. The reason it is so dangerous is precisely because it is reactionary ideology nonetheless tapped into the rising discontent of "The People"... the working class masses... even though they call them the "middle class".

Pay heed and learn. Hitler did the same thing with National Socialism (NAZI)in pre-WW2 Europe. The time of the system sanctioned "centrist" parties is approaching its end time. They are exposed for the frauds and incompetents they are. And there is a desperate casting about for alternatives already begun... And it is the Extremist Right that is turned onto it first, and they are desperately attempting to turn it... in their own interests AGAIN. THEY are attempting to capture the moment-, and the power of the restive working class. As Hitler did. And he got them... even to vote him into power. (Which in the final analysis, after the smoke had cleared from battle scarred Europe, had left only a worse situation, and much spilt blood.)

I should only have added...

I should only have added that, the meek/timid do not inherit the earth. They merely get used as doormats by everyone else.

from the student manifesto

for new economics:

"What is the economy for, anyway? For many people, the good life is not just about individual material wealth but also about open space, time, family, community, life meaning, and stewardship. The theory of public goods is again important to rebuild, since so many things that matter are not individual commodities. It is absurd to try to attach monetary valuations to priceless values, or to view all the multiple facets of life through the distorting lens of the market. Market efficiency, as conventionally defined, measures only a small subset of the human values related to the economy."

This is the message that the left could (should?) unite behind, that there is so much more to life that what can be purchased. If this message can be successfully disseminated, I think it would shake the very constructs around which governments are elected. Failing this message, we are reduced to tinkering, I fear.

Too Little Too Late...

"Market efficiency, as conventionally defined, measures only a small subset of the human values related to the economy." Student Manifesto.

Which is what our Conservatives who show up here, consistently and most often fail to get.

Mind, it was their rwing definition of "economic efficiency" that did get capitalism going again in Germany, from the depths of the last Great Depression, and we need as well to keep this in mind. And they succeeded at it by a great national works programme of creating a War Production Economy and building up the German Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe etc. And from that basis which put everybody back to work and got the trains running on time etc, launching the war project to unite Europe and Russia under German domination.

And it did work for a time, as I'm sure Fait will attest... until those chickens too finally came home to roost, of course, that led to the extermination of the Left and the Jews, and the ultimate defeat of Germany.

Failing to understand the above quote, and the significance of this Student Manifesto AND dare I say again, the significance of the Tea Party Putsch, an echo of the early Nazi gangs that went around beating Jews and Communists etc in Germany., will lead only into the "tinkering" Vivian Lea describes. While Rome burns and the extremists of the Right steal the initiative to "restore capitalism" out of the ashes of the old failed Social Democratic State experiment... even more than they already have it now.

If one cannot see where this Tea Party drive to Restore The Greatness of America is heading, and gets its distinctive echo from, for I certainly get it, then we are in deep, deep doo door.

The "tinkering" the NDP fundamentally proposes, along with the Liberals and even Greens, is too little too late, and will fail. What limited relevance they ever had is from a different time and society, frankly.

It's all an illusion!

Like the fable where the little boy says: "The emperor has no clothes on", we too are blinded to believe that present day emperor indeed is worthy of a parade.

Certainly there is an aura of discontent amongst the people, and only few have bothered to study why things are so bad, why study when our media so conveniently presents us with their take on everything?
Why bother to think individually?

People like James try too hard to be likeable and just act as a possible alternative, when it is tough and decisive action that people crave.
The masses want a tough stance like Trudeau or Zalm, even if their messages are not exactly favouring the masses.
James and Layton have to produce illusions that can inspire, or they better resign in favour of someone who can!

If like Obama they fail to live up to all the hoopla, at least they prevent more Gordo and Bush types from getting in power.

Jerry....I'm a long standing

Jerry....I'm a long standing member of the NDP. Not for any ideological, but or the simple reason that it is the only major party that MAY one day wake up, accept the realities and make the necessary changes.

Unfortunately, the present leadership is not interested. They'd rather wallow in the mud, waving packages of Band-Aids

I had 2 personal meetings with Carole. In '06, when she asked me to write down the facts, which I have done, and sent them to her, but received no reply.

Then again this last July, when she agreed with everything I told her and seemed to be in full knowledge of the facts. Once again, I gave her a detailed letter, personally, backed up by professor friends, who are now using them in their lectures. Her last words were: "We'll be in touch!" No reply.

We had a meeting with Moe Sihota a couple of weeks ago, when I tried to explain the details of the fraud, gave him a letter, plus a copy of Carole's letter. No reply.

I don't know of any politicians who'd dare to talk about the sordid facts. They all are scared shitless of big business, because they know that with our universities teaching the criminal theory and with the weapon of deregulated money creation in their hands, controlling the stock and money markets, the corporate mafia can ruin any society and wreck any economy, at will, to force people under their yoke. Over the years they've used the imaginary capital "created" by the banks to take control of the world's resources and economies and they can now do anything they want, to institute global dictatorship.

While I fully support the students' sentiments, I have to remind them that French and Belgian students have launched a similar revolution against the criminal neoclassical theory years ago, but never made any headway against their universities, or the governments.

http://forestpolicy.typepad.com/ecoecon/2006/12/index.html

http://www.paecon.net/PAEReview/wholeissues/issue1.htm

http://www.altruists.org/static/files/The%20Post-Autistic%20Economics%20Movement%20%28Edward%20Fullbrook%29.pdf

The list of people , i.e. Herman Daly et al, who fought against this crime wave is endless, but still no results.

Yes, I know nazism very well, and have a 45
year record fighting communism and any form of dictatorship.

In my 3 postwar years in Austria all I could hear was how good they had it under Hitler.

People love dictators, as it saves them from having to think and make decisions.

Ed Deak.

Ed

Only in a democracy, we call them "leaders"....

being of simple tastes...

"Jerry....I'm a long standing member of the NDP. Not for any ideological, but or the simple reason that it is the only major party that MAY one day wake up, accept the realities and make the necessary changes." Fait Lux

I understand this sentiment that is widespread in the NDP, for sure Fait. (Though we might argue over your "ideological" motivations still.) I don't share the sentiment myself... though I must admit to a faint, lingering hope that I am wrong. Which means conversely, that I hope you are right.

In any case, we should all keep plugging away, where e'er it be we think we should be. One or the other of us will be right. :-) Sooner or later.

When and if I am ever proved wrong brothers and sisters, I promise you, I will be the first to admit it... gladly. :-) And upon supplicants knee, unashamedly beg your forgiveness for my little faith.

On the other hand, ye all need not do the same with me... IF. It will be enough simply for me to know it. :-) I am really quite easily pleased, and a man of simple tastes. :-D lol

a few points,

Skywalker, what I suggest is a fresh look at our role in politics as voters; why a universal change in the way we all understand and then wrongly endorse party politics is necessary. The conceptualization I suggest is an easy one to make, for the folly of party support is everywhere -- almost painfully so.

Observe the historic truth (while leaving aside the culpable daily operations of government), that no ruling party has ever tried to make the voice of the people heard:

1. There is the party line that all representatives are ordered to follow or be removed from the party team;

2. the party line is directed by powers unseen;

3. there is no free vote in the house, just a silly endorsement by an ape-like figure;

4. the electoral districts are skewed so 'one vote is not one vote' and, at best, the gerrymandering is done for the incumbent party interests; and

5. 35-40% of the voting peoples support is enough to have almost dictatorial rule by the alleged winner.

The party in power, immune from serving the public's best interest, does not even pretend to understand the notion of democracy. How this is repeatedly overlooked by the public decade after decade, election after election, is an educational chasm we have been taught to avoid. Accordingly, we comply.

We will always have government, but the party system, despite its benefits, does not work. It is too large, unaccountable and easily corrupted. There are no guarantees your 'honest and ethical' independent candidate won't be corrupted either, but at least s/he will be accountable to the district voters.

I have been berated in here for suggesting we need to examine our personal ethics and expect, even demand, the same from our political icon, our government. But I believe that this public shortcoming works entirely against us in our social evolution toward, most hopefully, a better world. Without ethical introspection carried forward, we make and then whitewash the most horrific compromises of government.

We cannot change the world. But we can be accountable for what we do. We can change who sits in our government and demand from ourselves that they answer directly to ourselves, the people. We do not have to support a political party because the rhetoric has always been 'otherwise you are wasting your vote'. That is state propaganda and we need to stop feeding on it because it poisons us.

I know if we focus on who we elect as independent candidates in all of our electoral districts, rather than who we want as CEO for the political wing of corporate governance, we are at least moving toward representation of our diverse needs.

When this clarity comes into focus you will certainly ask yourself how you ever missed it. The power of the state manufacturing our consent is incredible, and we must re-examine everything we have been indoctrinated to accept as 'truths'.

Fiat lux, I have not read your Principle 1991. Where can I do so online?

Umm! Samuidave

I think you need to look at this sentence again:
(You suggest)......a universal change in the way we all understand and then wrongly endorse party politics is necessary.
We live in the world of the possible, the quotidian, the ordinary - where change is generally slow, often haphazard and frequently piecemeal.
Among young people it might be possible to create some excitement for change - even to promote change in something as boring as politics - and, of course, one has the example of Barack Obama...mass culture can be ‘such’ a bitch.
On the other hand, I assume you've been following the mid-term election campaigns in the US and the election of Rob Ford as mayor of Toronto.
Sadly, among the people you'd have to reach in order to have even a half-chance of succeeding, there's more interest in blogging about each others' Facebook™ pages.
We'll make whatever change we can, I'd suggest, slowly, imperfectly, and within the confines of the existing electoral paradigm.
I take it you're aware of what the result was in the 2009 STV referendum?
On the other hand, people who tilt at windmills will always, over time, attract a certain fascinated attention from the audience!

G West, change is what you make it

... and not just you specifically, but us all. I am not calling for a change to the electoral paradigm, per se -- though some change is needed -- but first for a change in our understanding of how we think we must play our role as voters.

Nobody puts a gun to our heads and insists we must vote for one of two contending parties, or any party at all. But we have been deceived into believing this absurdity is true. Plenty of state and corporate propaganda has locked our thinking.

Compounding this problem are those such as yourself, G West, who want to mock efforts to reveal another way of seeing our largely self-imposed dilemma. And, in doing such, you are working, honestly but mistakenly, against our collective best interests.

Your negative opinion of this very workable and understandable suggestion is defeatist, and at odds with the improvement you claim to desire. Instead, you rather go vote to not be represented other than by a corporate shill. And you want to suggest everyone else remains as you are -- mentally hogtied to rhetoric and a broken past, but determined to see it carried on into the future.

I find this sort of self-imposed barrier, and not just in political matters, quite common. With democracy we DO have the key in our own hands to effect change proactively. So why are we so adamant, so sure, it does not fit the lock to rid ourselves of party politics and the social ills it brings? Heck, we can't even try the key, let alone imagine it may fit.

Evidently, for many, the mere idea itself that we vote to give ourselves a chance for change rather than vote for another cycle of authoritarian rule is too liberating to bear.

"The problems we face cannot be solved with the thinking that created them" a paraphrase of a A Einstein quote.

By way of example, more proof that 'party politics' is indebted to strong organizations rather than to the people, found here: Moe Sihota LINK.

Hardly

I'm not mocking anyone - least of all you - I'm simply pointing out, as gently as I can, what I see to be the problems with your argument.

That is, after all, what debate is all about.

As for Moe Sihota, I've had all kinds of critical things to say about him both here at Tyee and elsewhere.

I admire people who are idealistic - but I insist that they are also practical and real about the kind of society we live in.

If you can come up with a practical and reasonable way to approach changing that society in a fundamental and non-violent fashion I'll join your revolution. But, and please don't take this the wrong way, I simply can't take seriously the efforts of an anonymous poster on a rather minor British Columbia website, a poster of a certain age who claims that merely by changing one's vote from a party to an independent, that we are going to change the world.

I await your response.

Changing GW's World I... :-)

"...merely by changing one's vote from a party to an independent, that we are going to change the world." GWest

Debate and attempting to find the ways forward, hopefully out of this ongoing and still evolving Neocon/lite-fascist period, is of course, in part what we are about here.

That said, the NDP has really not proved itself anymore substantively successful at "changing the world", than samuidave's suggestion, even if it fails. Indeed, we are in desperate need of alternatives to the NDP's centre/centre right current view of the world.

The NDP has been around in one incarnation or another for a very long time, and not secured a particularly remarkable history at change itself. Even less so since the fall of the Social Democratic State of Capitalism, which itself was largely a Liberal Party creation, if in small part with CCF provocation (Which the NDP is certainly not even a poor imitation of anymore.) and tolerated by all the then Progressive Conservative, even Social Credit parties to capitalism. (And the "stolen" ideas of medicare and the welfare state were around in various "socialist" movements, long before the creation of the NDP or even the CCF for that matter... to whom they were far from original or unique either.)

So while there has been no small contributions to the development of capitalism in this country that arose from especially the old CCF, and other Left parties and groupings no less, with special mention of the building of the trade union movement, the Left's achievements have certainly not been either stellar or especially lasting. (Even if one stretches to include the modern NDP within the Left.)

There have been many reasons for this of course, in no small part having to do with the postwar prosperity period that served capitalism so well, in keeping it alive post the last Great Depression. There was also the Cold War McCarthyite period of repression of the Left, especially within the Labour movement, with help at ostracizing the Left in no small part coming from the NDP, it should be mentioned.

In any case, the Left per se was largely worn down by harassment, finally eroded and destroyed was the net result, with the NDP coming out of the old CCF drifting ever further right to where it is today... virtually indistinguishable from any other centre to centre-right political representation. Though a tiny "progressive" and "Left" flame continues to flicker weakly within it, for sure... some representatives of which we have here.

continued next post...

Changing GS's World II...

continuing from above...

All that is by way of saying that the presumed "ownership" of the Left and "progressive" voice by the NDP is, if my read of the tea leaves is correct, about to be finally challenged, going forward here. It has been found seriously wanting by the times which capitalism is NOW going through, post the collapse of the Old Social Democratic State of capitalism. And I would suggest, there is a rather widespread perception of outstandingly incompetence out there, which I share.

The idea alternative of "independent" candidates, while I agree it is of itself not enough to change the balance of class power in our society, without a parallel and powerful "street movement" presence of especially the working class (and students) on the political scales as well, I think what samuidave is casting about for is... a place to start to build. And I agree it is a credible concept... even if not enough of itself, possibly even anymore than the NDP. We would have to see.

And this is because, any move we make, without the power of "masses in motion" can be outflanked by the money wealth of the ruling class, frankly. Mere politics alone is unlikely, in my view, enough. (NDP or otherwise.)

And while I would certainly do what I could, within my own limitations, to help get this idea of independent candidates off the ground, it being at least as good an idea as the NDP, and with the promise of better, it is not the place I would start myself. My view is that, it is the movement of the citizenry, their arousal and organization that is primary and needs to be focused on first. It is the more difficult task for sure, but also indispensable to the success of anything "political" that might arise after.

STILL, allowing for the at least appearance of some significant success of the Tea Party Movement in the US, a Right phenomena to be sure, which has again taken over the initiative from the Left in the US at organizing their masses, I think that if the Left does not move on some/any front pretty damned soon, the Right here is going to do it. And make no mistake, we have our Loony Right chomping at the bit no less than in the US, wanting to sweep away the last remaining vestiges of the Old Social Democratic State in our capitalism, and to forestall, cut off at the pass, any movement of the Left to pick itself up and dust itself off.

The NDP is in a sorry ass state of dysfunction, from my perspective. It is already, for all the good intentions of many still within it, already on and serving the "other side" in the emerging class war.

Samuidave's idea, while I think it has the flaws I indicate, is still a better idea to shake things up, if it can be got going, over what is... coming out of all the parties to capitalism.

@Jerry

The only thing I can say to what you're suggesting - given the fact that Samuidave's idea has shown no signs of possessing ANY "get up and go" beyond his presence here as an anonymous commenter on what is, in fact, a pretty marginal BC news site - is to quote the lines from an old union hymn I'm sure YOU remember.

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Which is, metaphorically, what I’m suggesting…given all its warts and imperfections, shortcomings and shortfalls, supporting the NDP is still a far better bet than the alternative AND, given the ‘feeble strength of one’ a damn sight more promising than a dozen self-involved so-called independents.

Cheers. Always a pleasure talking with you.

Tax cut will do some good...

Since this recession is due to reduced demand for goods and services, the 15% cut on the first $72,000 will do some good by reducing withholding and putting more money in people's pay cheques to spend come Jan. 1. I applaud that, and wonder if reducing the HST by 1% (equivalent to about the same in tax revenue - about $600 million) would stimulate demand as much. Probably the best measure would be to increase spending on infrastructure, which the $600 million could finance a lot of.
Whatever he did, of course, would be criticized by the highly partisan group that contributes to these comments. :-)

It's insulting

It's insulting to think that Campbell and his liberal buddies believe we can be bought off by another tax cut. Personally, I'd rather pay the taxes and see services restored to our most vulnerable, a reduction in our child poverty rates, etc., etc.,

Do they really think we are that stupid?

jeanc asks:

Perhaps not so much stupid as:

a. Not really involved in the political process.

b. Powerless to do much of anything about it anyway.

c. Too consumbed by consumerism to bother tearing ourselves away from Facebook; Twitter; the big screen TV; elitist corporate professional sports distractions, etc., etc., etc.

d. Too successfully brainwashed by the mainstream media and the corporate spin to really have a sense anymore of right and wrong.

you have to change your own mind

I simply can't take seriously the efforts of an anonymous poster on a rather minor British Columbia website, a poster of a certain age who claims that merely by changing one's vote from a party to an independent, that we are going to change the world.

I await your response.

AND I WOULD not expect you to change your view simply on my word. Clearly you need an authoritative figure to tell you what is going on before you can take an idea seriously.

But I will add this: not changing our (voting) behaviour and expecting change to result is idiotic.

jeanc ~ Do they really think we are that stupid?

Yes, they do. But only because we confirm that belief every four or five years by reinstalling the same sort of unrepresentative (of public desires), unaccountable, un-removable, unethical, lying, secretive, deceitful, self-serving government. Our manufactured consent is absurdly baffling -- but there it is.

The Feeble Strength of One...

"Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong."

Which, in my view, is no doubt still true. The problem is, that song was written a long time ago, (by Woody Guthrie??) in an entirely different time and class situation. I doubt like hell one would write that today based on current trade union politics and collaborationist behaviours. Ditto the "business friendly" NDP. (How things can turn sometimes, eh?)

Which as much as I hate to be insulting, is the bitter truth. (And I wish it wasn't.)

I wouldn't put my faith in either one of these "Gods", left over from the "old days" right now, myself. No doubt samuidave and such as myself are having problems "organizing" the masses on our end. :-) But then so is the NDP, and not getting any respect.

We's all currently in the same boat GW. The only difference between us is... Well, one of the differences.... that when something isn't working, we know when to stop and seek a new tack into a freshening wind. :-) (At least if there is more to the game than just, without a programme, a mandate based on that, or principles, getting "elected by default", and thereafter being the new boss who walks, talks and feels pretty much like the old boss.)

Besides, I hear you folks are shedding membership and money at a pretty goddamn good clip. At this rate, soon you'll be just like me and samuidave... out here in the political wilderness without a pot to piss in. :-) Though, it does sound like maybe Moe, at $72,000 per year for being president of the NDP, ain't losing too badly.

Care, bro. Again, always a pleasure. :-)

DNA

Yes, the tax cuts may do some good. But for how long?

The main reason we are in this socio-economic dilemna is because industry and business aren’t experienceing the level of profitability they expect the economy to deliver. The reason growth in profitability is comprimised is because of increasing resources scarcity, increasing resource costs and the fact that increases in worker efficiency is starting to yield insignificant changes in profit levels.

In order to adjust the balance sheet business has to become more efficient. The main way business can adjust the balance sheet is through technological change which alters the structure of employment: ie more and more part time and more and more poverty level jobs.

Tax reduction may give the economy a boost by temporarily increasing consumption but it is not going to reduce the impact of the main limiting factors: the increasing cost and scarcity of resources. In fact it will end up doing the opposite.

Increasing consumption will also accelerate the descent into social recession where we’ll witness increases in alcoholism, depression, anxiety and a further breakdown of community empathy because social service funding has become a low priority.

@Jerry - just as an aside

I ain't a member...and haven't been for a very, very long time. The song was written in 1915 by a guy called Ralph Chaplin and I quoted it, not for its relevance to today nor for its union references, but merely as a metaphorical allusion to why I'm not hopping up and down in support of Samuidave's concept of electing 'independents'.

@DNA - I think you're missing the point. Campbell spent the first part of his speech telling British Columbians how much the treasury needs the extra cash (which, you'll recall, amounted to about 1.6 billion beans from the feds) to pay for programs and services – remember? AND then he turned around in the second half of his little address and gave some 600 million of that back to the people.

We already know that the carbon tax (by July 2011) will cancel out the 15% tax cut for a taxpayer who makes $50,000...So there's no real net benefit to taxpayers either.

The point is, the policy is incoherent - why do you suppose no one's buying it?

Just exactly what programs are going to be aided by the HST?

We know it's a net benefit to corporations - that was obvious from the beginning - but the suggestion it's going to do anything positive for average and middle class taxpayers is just silly.

Nothing dogmatic about that - just a willingness to call a spade a shovel.