Right or Wrong

Right or wrong, pandora is out of the box. Now is the time to deal with it and put it to bed. If it drags on much longer, we may see the lead over the Fiberals shrinking. To dispell any more speculation, have the leadership review and live with the outcome. I say clean it up now!

Marcella Munroe - Mea Culpa?

I see that Marcella Munroe, former NDP communications strategist, is listed as "On Side" with James - "Basically, he publicly slapped the leader and I think he knows that."

But that's not what Marcella thought months after the May, 2009 election. In fact Marcella told the G & M:

"It's about having a positive agenda. And I am not hearing it from the NDP." She said Ms. James has done little to reach out and learn from the success of the civic team. If that Vision effort doesn't take, she said, a third party will start to look more viable."

Strangely enough, Bob Simpson was also quoted in that same G & M article:

"I'm aware of the rumblings of 'Is it time for a Vision B.C.?' " said NDP MLA Bob Simpson. It is born, he said, out of questions about whether the NDP can be fixed: "One of the questions everyone legitimately has is, can you revamp and rebrand the NDP?"

So has Pandora's Box now been opened?

Tangler you are spinning.

You can be decisive or decisively stupid. You also have no call to refer to Bob as "the whiner" the same could be said of Carole. If saying your speech lacked substance is a criticism that a leader can't take then She is no leader. Bob didn't whine: he was honest.

Voters do not set the rules. In a caucus the leader does and it becomes a strange conundrum for any caucus member. There should be a sign at the door of the caucus room that says: " enter here only after your brain and mouth are turned off."

Finally whether James has the right stuff to win is exactly the point. More and more people who want the liberals gone are wondering how long they have to pay the price for Carole's apprenticeship. Two elections should have been enough to see what she had. Kicking Bob out of caucus proves to many that she just ain't got it. Period.

@ Cool Hand

You stated on another article that Corky Evans had supposedly "lamented the fall of the Berlin Wall" and this was of concern to some. You were completely wrong.

In his last Speech in the legislature Corky lamented the failure that the fall of the Berlin Wall presented to the democratic nations of the world. That is hrdly anything like you stated.

The only person I found who interpreted his comments the same way you did was Vaughn Palmer. Palmer rarely lets the facts get in the way of spicey column. Devoid of spice he isn't worth the read. Both of you are wrong. For a minute I thought you were one and the same person.

So while you may on rare occasions come up with something that adds to the debate as above, your frequent embellishments detract from your credibility.

James has to go....

and Simpson is helping the NDP get rid of a failed leader. It is time the NDP went back to being a party that stands up for the least advantaged members of society. What is James and her supporters thinking by trying to court the business community?

It isn't about getting the most votes and reacting to polls, it is about doing the right thing. James has to go, and the NDP has to go back to filling the vacuum on the left.

Thank you Mr. Beers

This issue is big enough that our elected people should take a stand.
I helped elect Claire Trevena, and wonder how she feels about the present leadership?

Let me take this occassion to thank Mr Beers for having worthwhile topics this weekend!
The responses speak for themselves I should think?

The Fullness of Time...

"Simpson is a nobody. He will be long forgotten before the next election. So long, Bob. Nice knowin' ya."

Well, I don't know yet whether he is a "whiner" or a "nobody" yet. I certainly haven't seen anything of any significant content come out of him yet.

The rift he has exposed within the Party however, has been insightfuk and useful... and I'm hoping it really does have a significant policy and vision difference basis, 'cause I know many folks and ndpers do have that kind of difference with the party right now.

The fullness of time makes all things clear... or at least nearly so.

Gary Mason

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/gary_mason/talk-of-campbell-striking-out-premature-as-long-as-ndp-is-pitching/article1750890/

"Bob the Whiner" Huh?

Funny, for as long as I've known Bob Simpson, "whiner" has never been a part of his image or persona. Thoughtful, articulate, intelligent, committed, maybe, but not a "whiner". I think he is just as frustrated by the NDP' lack of action, lack of vision and lack of solid policy alternatives as MOST folks in the Cariboo, who just happen to take politics seriously. We happen to KNOW that the Gordo Gang has been giving BC away, it is happening right in front of our eyes! Did the NDP ever use the information supplied by the folks in the Cariboo prior to the 2009 election? Nope. Of course not. The Gordo Gang were elected by default. There are MLA's ready to bolt from Gordo, what does the NDP do? Begin to self-destruct !! Is this REALLY a great strategy???

The support of the leader by

The support of the leader by the caucus means nothing. They only do it to "show solidarity" and they are politicians.

What Bob wrote was next to nothing in importance and very few people thought it was of any consequence or an insult.

The leadership overreacted over nothing, probably to to get rid of Bob and started an avalanche they didn't expect.

Bob intends to continue as an "independent MLA". If this nonsense continues till the next elections and the leadership doesn't come to their senses, but set another "official" NDP candidate against him, we'll end up with a BCLib MLA.

Ed Deak.

Correction...Should read

Correction...Should read "Bob intends to continue as an independent NDP MLA."

Ed Deak.

Peeing on the tent

If you step out of the tent to pee on it, it shouldn't be surprising if they don't let you back in. How about we all aim for the toilet (BC liberals) from now on?

Quoted from

Quoted from Tangler:

So this is a clear admission that our political system and the political parties in it are not democratic right? Join one of these parties and suddenly you have to wear a muzzle? Join one of these political parties in Canada and you do not have a voice any longer? But these political parties claim they can administer democracy to me and others?? They have a monopoly on this do they??

So I can only exercise my right to speech if I am an independent?

Thanks for clearing that up for a swing voter like myself.

22% of this province voted in the last election. Perhaps I am part of the other 78% that you never see at the ballet box. Beginning to understand why?

No. 1, Is it good for Business?

"...The No. 1 issue, election in, election out, is the economy. People want to know that their jobs are safe. Those without jobs will vote for the party they believe will put them back to work.

The reason a politician as greatly unloved as Gordon Campbell continues to lead his party to victory is that people in B.C. trust him with their economic well-being, even if some have to plug their nose while they’re voting. Carole James knows this is the central reason the NDP lost the last election, and she has been trying to burnish her economic bona fides since...."

Gary Mason, Globe and Mail

You just keep away from the

You just keep away from the ballot box and then enjoy the inevitable, coming dictatorship by your betters, the corporate mafia.

The present system may have a lot of faults, but at least it has a chance for improvement and some degree of public control.

Have you ever lived under any form of dictatorships our corporate mafia is planning to install with their pimps, like the gangs now ruling BC and Canada ?

Well, just don't vote and you'll see what they're like.

Ed Deak.

My heritage is Huguenot and

My heritage is Huguenot and Serbian. If you want to have a conversation about dictatorships or discrimination there is plenty to go around in both those histories......but that is a topic for another day and another thread.

Our system does have a lot of faults; the room for improvement is slim and one cannot expect the politicians or the political pundits to encourage experimentation with changing the way their bread is buttered....the representatives of any political party, are, for the most part, concerned with getting themselves re-elected; in the case of political pundits their consulting and strategy incomes are the major concern. So this is where the statement from Realisticman comes into play; people are concerned with their jobs; and this includes the good folks who make incomes off political strategies policy.

Why would any of them work for change?

We the people must bring the changes ourselves; otherwise it is changing horses in the same old tired system. A system that not one person I can find is happy with.

Sure let’s change horses then........now what? Changing back to the left is doing what exactly? We remain locked in the tired old thinking that got us to where we are now. And changing from one side to the other is an improvement in some way?

Convince me otherwise......

Piano....I'm not in the

Piano....I'm not in the business to convince anybody of anything. That has to be done by yourself through the careful studying of the facts

Once people permit any special interest sector to take control of their economies, which means their lives, they become slaves.

And this is what we have now, with a few multinationals controlling the world's food supplies, destroying the family farms and stealing people blind in the stores in forcibly urbanized mega cities.

Can you stop this by staying away from voting ?

Ed Deak.

Realisticman.

You always avoid the discussion of the effect that a Campbell friendly media has on the public's perception. If the media does not explain the BC Rail giveaway and its implications, if they do not cover the dismantling of BC Hydro's role in power generation in B.C., if they make no mention of the higher costs we will all have to pay, how do you expect a voter to understand that what they are yold by Campbell is "good for business" is nothing more than selling the kids future to a bunch of greedy corporations.

Most people in business I know already start from a political astuteness deficit. They could vote for a guy who was caught molesting little kids on the lawn of the legislature at high noon as long as they could see a gold mine in it for them. It would take some honest reporting and independent analysis with an open mind to receive the truth. The message they receive as news is corporate propaganda. That is why they vote for a liar. The end justifies the lie.

Is it because in the heart of every business person lies a crook? I don't think that is true but they do need an honest media more than anybody.

So as long as we have Canwest passing off their fishwrap as news, there will always be some who think Campbell can lie anytime he wants to as long as he "greases their profit margin".

Skywalker

I wasn't avoiding anything. I quoted an article that discussed the subject of this column above. The writer mentions what he thinks about it, as well as the players involved. He also mentions why he thinks Carole James was speaking to the business community.

As for the press avoiding the BC Rail case; the same publication as the writer I mentioned (The Globe and Mail) has 295 links to stories about BC Rail. Hardly ignoring the story.

By the way; Canwest sold all its newspapers five months ago.

Well done Carole James

You have now taken away freedom of speech and as an NDP voter you lost my vote

my view on the James-Simpson mess

I am concerned that the NDP hierarchy has waddled into a totally unnecessary brouhaha. Tom Perry seems to capture a sense of it all when he says that

"Leadership is not about punishing people who disagree or challenge, unless they are blatantly obstructionist. Mr. Simpson's record suggests he is better informed and more thoughtful than most MLAs, and his local support and re-election in a close riding likely derives from a good record as MLA."

That said, the NDP, always a somewhat autocratic and casually restrictive proponent of free speech, should give Mr Simpson a pass and reinstate him...assuming he wants to come in out of the liberating cold.

Subsequent to thta, perhaps we could engage in a discussion of the benefits of whistleblowing and expressing opinion. We might amaze ourselves.

NDP Leadership a non issue

The Canucks have another team captain - but has that made a stitch of difference?

R/man

Isn't it a bit convenient that the Globe and Mail covers what the Sun and Province won't. Who but the most dedicated political Junkie reads the G & M. As bardoponde says a new head of the MSM isn't going to change anything even though in provincial and federal politics the perception of the leader is everything. Just ask the federal liberals.

Gary Mason and R/man

Let's examine the comment from the Gary Mason article referred to by R/man.

"The reason a politician as greatly unloved as Gordon Campbell continues to lead his party to victory is that people in B.C. trust him with their economic well-being, even if some have to plug their nose while they’re voting. Carole James knows this is the central reason the NDP lost the last election, and she has been trying to burnish her economic bona fides since...."

So Carole now has to "suck up" for lack of a better term, to the same people who don't give a crap about honesty and integrity or their workers or service levels for the average person but will vote for anyone who ensures their personal economic well being. That means if you keep on priming the business pump at the expense of the common man, they will continue to be on-side. Now never mind that the average person is getting from the same well and if one takes more the other takes less. I submit they don't even hold their noses when they vote; that would require a conscience.

R/man and Gary Mason have explained the political conflict very well. Those of us who see little difference between the Campbell gang and the people the Carole James NDP want to become are getting uneasy about the NDP under Carole as the voice for change. If someone dares question the leader they are thrown out and that is the last straw..

It all makes sense now. All those political pundits who crap on every politician, every party because they are cynical because it sells better than thoughtful analysis and they are under a deadline, have actually without knowing exposed the truth. Carole who wants to "suck up" to business is O.K. with them. The rest of those critics are lefties lefties as opposed to the looney, greedy right and "greed is good".

And I'm just your everyday middle-of-the-road senior who hates all extremes.

Bob Simpson likes Prosperity Mine - he'll do fine outside caucus

Bob Simpson seems to be onside with the Prosperity Mine proposal - unlike Carole James and the aboriginal activists.

Could be that Simpson knows something about how much unemployment and development count in rural BC - unlike James and her city, public sector union and activist cliques.

Change is good, sometimes

I agree that new leadership can be a good thing. Timing is everything and NDP always seem to be out of political timing.
I am a paid member of the NDP and support most of the campaigns and platforms that Carole and her party put forward. But I also have been present for many many speeches and meetings that she has underperformed and the amount of rhetoric has been so thick you could cut it with a knife.

I am not saying she needs to go, but for certain she needs a reboot! We have heard what she is pushing before and it is time to get with the times and be pro active as opposed to playing catch up...NDP BC seems to be doing that often or missing the bus all together in political windfalls.

Leadership and direction

Many of the NDP supporters here in the Shuswap are moaning about the weak leadersship of Carole James. The sad thing is that she is such a lovely person, so mild and likeable. One doesn't really feel right about saying anything negative about her.

The NDP has to stop being so very nice and accommodating, and get out there and fight (after first developing some good policies fit for a modern day progressive party) for Canadians. The people, not "Business" (meaning corporations).

Sadly, Canada is not in a democracy anymore -- it's a plutocracy, heading back to the days of Dickens. This has to change. We need fairer taxes, government not running up deficits by borrowing from private banks at interest, instead of using (nearly interest free) the publicly owned Bank of Canada, and with the increased revenues we should strengthen the wellbeing of the average citizens. (No corporate welfare bums!)

I would really like a policy program developed that I can support. No wonder so many peple don't vote.

And that brings me to electoral reform. I personally did not like the system that was proposed by the people's commission. It could have given you a second and third choice that no one wanted. Let's not experiment: Proportional Rep systems are used almost all over the world, certainly the European continent. No need to reinvent the wheel!

I can't wait for my vote to count! It hasn't for decades!

James vs Simpson

I note that James' defenders say that Simpson was not going in the same direction as the NDP caucus. I would like to know what direction the NDP caucus is moving in--especially people like James and Rob Fleming. The NDP caucus is not moving in either a democratic socialist or a social democratic direction. They seem paralyzed. One man has been able to launch a more effective campaign against the HST than the entire NDP. If the NDP are not careful another party will capitalize on the Liberals gaffes and the NDP will be finished in BC.