good article

Good article! and what a welcome analysis after the endless pro-Olympic spewing on MSM.

What a surpsise.Vanoc seems

What a surpsise.Vanoc seems unable to run much of anyhting but even now expect huge bonuses for what they did and didn't do getting this circus up and running. I wonder just how much money Gordo has slipped into the coffers and still call it non circus related. BC sure elects some real stunned folks. Furong better get out of town on closing day before he gets tarred and feathered, and take Gordo with him.

And all the whiz-kids at

And all the whiz-kids at VANOC couldn't see the reccession coming? Do they subsribe to the Michael Campbell School of Business? Then we wonder why BC/Canada is in a finanical mess. I was talking to a retired financial consultant a couple of months ago and he said that he and some of his collegues could see the 'boom' start to unravel back in '05. Some politians rewrote the mortgage rules and some others didn't want to see what was in front of their faces which just prolonged the inevitable and of course made it worse.

Debt and Venues.

So all we are getting for a few Billion Dollars is Debt, and some Venues, like ice rinks etc that we can't afford to keep open. Want to use the ski jumps (men only) that will be $1,500 per jump. How about $1,200 per half hour at the speed oval! How about social housing at false creek, 550 sq ft at $3,000 per sq ft equals $1.6 million per suite, plus $2,000 per suite per month to guard each poor person. I'll be protesting the lame flame, in a couple of weeks.

Math for BC Liberals

Tax cuts+Recession+Olympics=no money for Health and Education.

Back when Vancouver was chosen as host city I wondered, "Gee, what happens if there's a recession between now and then?" Now we know.

zero advantage

During the Expo 86 turmoil I had a store near the event and experienced zero advantage, but lots of inconveniences.
I predict that the same will happen to downtown businesses this time around, so where is the benefit?

The hospitality industry will rake in a profit for sure, but none of that will trickle down to their employees, and the owners live in other parts of the world.

I feel blessed that I will not be paying taxes in Vancouver.

BTW, thanks Tyee for 2 weeks running without Rafe Mairs ongoing rants.

Didja have to say that, alive?

.
I wish you hadn't taken that slap at Rafe Mair, an elder working to repair the damage being done to BC.

Mainstream News Making Huge Olympic Revenue

You position the recession as a primary cause for 2010 Olympic economic grief Bob, but the reality is not one Olympic host region since Sydney Australia in 2000 has experienced a "return on investment" respective of increased tourism or foreign capital investment proportionate to the billions sunk into the Olympics.

Salt Lake City 2002 saw a $1.2 billion deficit.

Athens 2004 hit a whopping $12 billion+.

Turin 2006 is still trying to total their deficit, but we do know they threatened bankruptcy only two months before their big event and they held taxpayers and the government hostage until they were bailed out at the eleventh hour.

Beijing 2008 was a $40 billion farce from start to finish.

Vancouver 2010 is approaching $7 billion in costs, which represents overruns in the multibillions.

London 2012, still over two years away is already in overrun costs by about $22 billion.

The recession had nothing to do with the first four cities, and not as much as VANOC would like you to think regarding 2010. Granted, it made it worse, but many people, including Commenters on the Tyee knew this was going to be a blow out years ago.

Tying the recession to the Olympics isn't a story. The story today is how mainstream news media working with people like Jack Poole sold out our community. It is beyond me how so many in BC were willing to sit back, The Tyee included, and watch VANOC and the IOC partner with Canwest and CTVGlobemedia, and no one thought this was cause for concern. Yes David (Beers) you published many anti-Olympic style articles over the years, but you weren’t proactive and you didn't address real world solutions.

Reporting about bail out costs after the fact is reactive, not proactive. News companies are going bankrupt because they are reactive, not proactive. Local independent news media had a chance to fix a broken IOC business model but you guys blew it. You looked the other way while reporters from the Vancouver Sun, The Globe & Mail and Global TV worked with land developers and marketers like David Podmore and Bob Rennie boosting the Games and creating Olympic frenzy that artificially inflated property values and taxes.

You want to write about something Bob, write about this;

If it was illegal for mainstream news media to partner with advertisers like the IOC, taxpayers in Olympic Host regions wouldn't be such sitting ducks.

http://www.olyblog.com/f/06/ShawLeeF09282006.shtml#INQUIRY

It's time to go after Olympic sponsors like McDonalds and Coca-Cola who are making a killing off the back of taxpayers. If you want to do something positive for our community Bob publicly ask RBC, HBC, Rona, PetroCan etc., to each kick 25% more into the Olympic pool and take the pressure off taxpayers.

Side with our community instead of advertisers and we might start following mainstream news media again.

Yes, I hope that was "tongue and cheek"

"thanks Tyee for 2 weeks running without Rafe Mairs ongoing rants."

I for one think that Rafe's submissions are not anything like a rant. Mine, like alive's, might be. I have missed his commentary on BC issues and hope he is back soon.

NBC is full of it

NBC boasts they put advertising in front of 4 billion at the Summer games and 3 billion at the Winter Games.

If they can't make a profit off 14 billion eyeballs they are either incredibly stupid or they are lying.

They tell prospective sponsors at forthcoming Games they reach billions so sponsors will get onboard, and then in the next breath they tell taxpayers in Host regions they are taking a hit.

moving beyond talk

I hope that everyone complaining about the "Oily"-mpics will also join in the action that is planned for February 12th ( http://2010welcoming.wordpress.com/ )

see you in the streets!

Campbells Games 2010.

Taxpayers will be on the hook for the debt ridden events now unfolding. The entire venue is a farce,with greed of the upper echelons front and centre.
There is absolutely zero for we taxpayers,left with this Liberal/Campbell debt. So, who will vote B.C. Liberals back in come the next election in B.C. ?

So What?

Why the heck are you decrying the Olympics and the global spirit and joy of these times?

Just why?

Okay?

Some of us can say.

Some of us can say.

We told you so!

The big corporate media is going bankrupt. Could this have anything to do with people finally starting to realize that they are simply shills for 'big corp' and simply infomercials, and have abdicated news years ago?

Thank god for the Internet and the independents.

HIt the nail on the head

Maurice Cardinal - you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree with you more.

One thing I cannot understand - are people really this stupid? Can anyone - using their left, analytical side of their brain, see that the Olympic games are nothing but the BIGGEST FINANCIAL SCAM on the World? A small group of elites make a huge load of money while society is slammed with 20-30 years of debts.

Ask yourselves these questions:
- why does the government fund private projects with public money?
- how come that the IOC is not paying taxes?
- how come that 25,000 people volunteer their time while a small elite group gets bonuses at the end of the games?
- why is it that no one can be held responsible in the government that misuse public money?
- why can't we put these people into jail?

Everyone knows that there are backroom deals, mismanagement, media bribes and etc. so what is the problem? Did greed and power make people so unethical that there is limit?

It makes me sick to my stomach to think that societies in general has lost its backbone. Money buys everything. Even unethical and criminal things.

Just why?

'Polakite' Many of us are "decrying the Olympics and the global spirit and joy of these times" because the Olympics do not create a "global spirit and I suspect that the billions who try to survive on $1 a day are not that joyful. We also realize that expenses like the Olympics are shameful when 30,000 kids die everyday because they don't have enough to eat or clean water. As long as conservatives (like our Liberals) continue to support inequality with billions in tax dollars for a relative few, who can pay for their own parties, then there is no social justice or fairness or a society that works well or a million other reasons. Get it yet??

olympic bs

who is ready for more taxes ? with revenue expected @ $800 million ( about the cost of security for the games ) I think we are all about to bent over if you know what i mean . and who will pay ? the polititions i don't think so . If they think we can all afford there political incompetence maybe they should try E.I. for awhile like a lot of people in B.C. are trying to cope with . or maybe they should try living on the pathetic minimum wage in this "rich" province that has a lower wage than Newfoundland . has any of them tried living in Vancouver on $8/hr. THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH FOR WHO ?

Something new to write about!

My goodness, almost every issue that "causes misery" is the same as it has been since someone decided they could get rich (live comfortably) on the labor of others. It was called slavery at some point and likely still could be. So now we have the elite class selling itself resources, keeping minimum wage low, reducing their taxes, and essentially keeping most voters hopeless and in despair so they don't bother to vote thus perpetuating the misery. Rafe has begun speaking out on some aspects of that. Now you want "new issues" . What the hell are new issues when the old ones have never been addressed. Has anyone been such a great success that the field should be left to them. Has the NDP? Have the Greens? Everyone counts in this fight and if Rafe wants to use his talents and reputation for the greater good he's welcome. Who's feeling sorry for him anymore than for the others who are in this boat?

I'll bet not all of your posts are new and original but I won't ask you to take a hiatus.

Why Decry?

Polakite wrote "Why the heck are you decrying the Olympics and the global spirit and joy of these times? Just why? Okay?"

Because:
- The Sea-to-Sky freeway and all the resulting suburban sprawl (we could have improved passenger rail to Whistler instead, but that would not have done much for GM and Petro Canada). And all the other freeway climate crimes being committed in BC - see www.gatewaysucks.org
- The tar sands greenwash with the 'Greenest Games" sponsored by GM, Petro Canada, TransCanada Pipeline, Royal Bank, Teck Cominco and other tar sands climate criminals who profit from freeway expansion such as the Sea-to-Sky and Gateway Program.
- Of cuts to school athletic and recreation programs at the same time as the corporate games promote 'going for the gold' (you are not the best of the best so stay home and watch the best on TV and eat McDonald's Olympic pseudo-food kiddies!).
- Because temporary dictatorships often become permanent if not resisted.
- Because we still don't know how many died in the 1968 Olympic massacre in Mexico City, and people are still wondering what happened to their brothers and sisters. see http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/tlatelolco.htm
- Because in 1930s, a government scored a major propaganda victory for a particularly nasty form of corporatism by hosting the Winter Olympics. see http://www.vhec.org/currentexhibits.html
- Because things don't get better unless people point out what is wrong, and work to create a better world.

Okay?

Five billion dollars.

One billion for security alone.

Note to Vancouver RCMP:
There will be a lot of athletes coming in to town. Some of them don't speak English. Please don't shoot any of them. Keep Kwesi Millington and Monty Robinson locked up for the duration. Matter of fact, put them on trial for murder while you are at it. Robinson can stand on two counts, and until he does, I for one will have no respect for the RCMP. I am a law-abiding citizen and I am mad as hell.

There is a song from Glasgow that goes:

"I'll sing you a song it won't take long.
All coppers are bastards."

Millington and Robinson are living proof.

I'm Disillusioned by the Olympics

I don't watch it anymore. Now that it's also become a way for Harper to avoid pertinent questions about what Canada was doing in Afghanistan - re enabling a corrupt government; I've really got no use for the Olympics.

Let the Bailout Games Begin

Thanks for the interesting stats on the costs of the Olympics. While I honour the athletes, I abhor the exploitation of athletes and taxpayers for personal gain. The gain is in the form of exclusive contracts, infrastructure to benefit real estate fraternity members, rezoning of land, and veiled lucrative deals (land /rentals/leases/advertising) involving Crown Corporations, Crown Lands, First Nations lands and public assets.

According to Chris Shaw in 'Five Ring Circus', the International Olympic Committee collects tax-free revenue from TV broadcasts, sponsorships, partnerships, ticketing and direct marketing and/or licencing of Olympic products and large fees paid by candidate cities. (page 69-). There is no disclosure or accountability of the revenues collected by the IOC. Mr. Chris Shaw calculates their income at well above $60 million per year on an ongoing basis. The money is kept in a Swiss account. The funds are tax exempt in spite of the fact that there is no public disclosure of the funds and expenditures. It is an international mystery and disgrace. Why not be squeaky clean and forthright with the public?

Well at least the pain is

Well at least the pain is going to be shared more evenly this time around. It is widely rumoured that 5% of the Government workforce will pay for their share of the Olympics with their jobs come the end of February.

Winter Olympics costs

No word yet from the police agencies as to their estimates for policing the Winter Olympics. I heard that an overall figure of a billion dollars would be a conservative figure. Unless,in the spirit of the Games, police officers have agreed not to seek compensation for the inevitable overtime rates!

the bloated organization known as VANOC

What sticks in my mind about VANOC is an early interview with one of the Olympic opponents. It may have been the much-harassed Chris Shaw. They pointed out that the delegation VANOC sent to Torino was 250 people. Torino apparently put on their games with a staff of 125 people. How big is VANOC? Maybe a bloated organization begets cost escalation and over-runs.

you have not changed my mind

I feel tired of those who at every turn are trying to sabotage the 2010 Olympics which in my view is a worthwhile and wonderful event. Assuming that we are running into a deficit or wasting money, for nothing is proven yet, I would like to know what the alternative to this international event is. Please tell me, how and where can the world meet in mutual respect to promote the skill, vision and passion of athleticism? For the entire negative, real or not, issues, the bottom line is that there is nothing to replace the Olympics and to hold our world together in peace, one of the main reasons for the inception of the movement.

For those few weeks of sacrifice, putting up with street closures and traffic we get to share our beautiful city, and province with the world. We can take pride in our great country, Canada, showing our hospitality, the talent of our youth and our citizens. There are endless complainers and there are others who give countless hours of devotion for the Olympics to occur. They do so because that is the privilege and pride of participation.

What do we get out of it? Like spoiled children they complain. Simple, we Canadians become the focus of the planet and join the billions of the world who chose to lift their hearts away from the daily grind, away from societal and global ills, away from war and pain. For a moment, we glance at the glory and the potential of the human heart, mind and body and we celebrate..

Yes, there is hunger in the world but if people felt so strongly about it they could send their own private donations or adopt a starving child or two, or help out a family in need. There are plenty of other opportunities and more positive ways to lobby government and corporations to help the poor. Knocking the Olympics or street protesting is not one of them. The last thing we need is to divert police attention away from Olympic security.

I urge the naysayers to turn on to the moments for it is these that change the world for the better. In a single minute, second or millisecond there is magic and thrill. An athlete, after years of sacrifice and/or from a disadvantaged background or country steps onto the podium, tears flow. Millions are inspired to dream for a better life, to strive harder and to attain the impossible. How do you a price on that?

No matter how many negative views there are, the world needs the Olympics now and forever and it would indeed be bleak and depressing for humanity without them. Those who wish to present an ugly perspective or try to embarrass their country that is their privilege, I for one will not be joining them.

The RULE, folks...

"The story today is how mainstream news media working with people like Jack Poole sold out our community."

No, they didn't, in fact, have the power to do so. We, the people, could have prevented it, but failed to.

"One thing I cannot understand - are people really this stupid?"

Not exactly stupid. More like 'manageable through suggestion'. Or, 'the latest honorable speaker is always right'.

Here is the rule that works. For all of us. Don't ever, e-v-e-r, EVER, buy anything if the idea of buying it was not yours. If it was worth having at the price you're being asked to pay, the man would
keep it for himself. Never fail to question, why the guy wants to unload it on you. And don't ever fail to remember that you are paying REAL MONEY for it, while he only invested airy-fairy paper stuff. If you need something, go out and find it. If you're not driven to do so, you don't need it. If you follow that rule, you'll never be hoodwinked and ripped off. That goes for communities, too.

The Olympics help prolong

The Olympics help prolong poverty because the money wasted on the Os, like the city's 21million dollar slush fund could have been used for treatment and the care of the homeless who live in poverty, addiction and in many cases mental illness. We really cannot justify any event where we are spending millions on a sporting event while the homeless population grows, the child poverty worsens, the use of the food bank is the highest in the nation and the minimum wage is so low and where the richer get richer and the poor get poorer.
It is too late to change history but let's remember not to repeat this type of waste until we deal with the poverty including homelessness in this city.

Thank you letlive

Great comment!

Of course, after the Olympics, perhaps some of the money could be spent on EIBI & child poverty reduction. Nonetheless, crapping on the Olympics now:

a) Ruins it for the fans
b) Kills jobs
c) Harms economic recovery so we can help cut child poverty

Incompetence On All Levels

It has become clearly apparent over the past 10 years, that all levels of government from municipal to provincial to federal demonstrate extreme incompetence.
They seem to think, the only reason they exist is to spend money, whether we have it or not.
But, not to worry, if we can keep juggling this debt until we die, our kids and their kids will have to figure out what to do with it.
They will not be able to get any sound advice from our generation, we have all proven incompetence levels to the extreme.

Polakite - Child poverty

For all the hype and puffery about BC being "The Best Place on Earth (TM)", the child poverty level is not excusable. We have been consistently last place in Canada, in spite of any false promises issued by Campbell & Co. One child in ten! What galls me is that with a huge deficit, recent confirmation of high child poverty, this government can commit almost half a billion dollars to put a retractable roof on BC Place after the Olympics. Where are their priorities? In spite of all the claims of wanting better-educated kids, we don't seem to mind that they may go to school hungry. Sorry, but it's well-established that a hungry child does not learn well.

This is a USA Republican-style philosophy: If your Mom and/or Dad is/are poor, TOUGH LUCK. Uncle Sam will NOT be there to help you, because the majority of taxpayers are so wrapped up in themselves that they will not part with any money to help their fellow citizens.

Do we want to continue down this road? I do not!!

If I could.

If I could give what will be my share of the Olympic debt to Polakite and letlive I would happily agree not to watch a single event of the games. I have heard more hype/stuff/fluff about the games and they have not even started than I ever wanted to in the first place, content as I was to just watch the odd event on TV. Now I am ready to even give up that tiny benefit from all my tax dollars. So, we got deal?

The Olympics remind me of the Simpson episode where

The Town is convinced they need a monorail to make them noticed!

the second Olympic games

After the games are over expect to watch the second ones.

The one where everyone will be fighting over the crumbs that are left.

Welfare Socialism for the

Welfare Socialism for the ruling "business" class. Big Stick Capitalism for everyone else.

Ain't "what passes for democracy" and self-reliant "get the state off our backs free Enterprise system" just grand. The gold standard for bullshit and hypocrisy. To say nothing of just plain old fashioned Evil.

The Olympics etc.

Mark my words: 2010 will be the year that the "recession" grabs Canada with full force. Artificial/repressed interest rates will no longer stave off the inevitable. It's gonna' be real ugly.

"....will not part with any money to help their fellow citizens.

dave49, I suggest you educate yourself as to where current US tax dollars are going. Also educate yourself about the rules of the US Constitutional Republic that have not been adhered to for nearly 100 years before you start accusing the US citizens of not wanting “to help their fellow citizens” and dissin their Republic.

Yes, letlive here is another perspective. Using your words.

Yes, there is hunger for sport competition in the world but if people felt so strongly about it they could send their own private donations or adopt an athlete or two, or help out a family in need of athletic support. There are plenty of other opportunities and more positive ways to lobby government and corporations to help the athlete. Knocking the oppressed in our society or street protesting is not one of them. The last thing we need is to divert police attention away from protecting and serving the citizenry.

I urge the naysayers to turn on to the moments for it is these that change the world for the better. In a single minute, second or millisecond there is magic and thrill. An poor hungry person, after years of sacrifice and/or from a disadvantaged background or country steps into a successful career and a family supporting job, tears flow. Millions are inspired to dream for a better life, to strive harder and to attain the impossible. How do you put a price on that?

No matter how many negative views there are, the world needs an end to poverty and hunger. Then after everyone has an equal opportunity to get involved in sports, the Olympics could stand as a symbol of that accomplishment. Until then the olympics present a terrible waste of resources leaving a bleak and depressing future for much of humanity. Those who wish to present this waste as necessary or try to embarrass their country by condoning this waste that is their privilege, I for one will be ashamed of them.

Winter Olympics

To 'Let Live' ("You have not changed my mind"). The Olympic Movement you described sadly died many decades ago, when all manner of drugs became available to athletes in order to enhance their performance.
As to the Winter Olympics let me remind you that, at best, a mere 10% of the population in the Lower Mainland(it may be somewhat higher in the rural areas due to their immediate access to winter sports conditions)an afford to participate in winter sports, with the possible exception of skating. Certainly, winter sports involving skiing and related activities is an elitist pursuit given the high cost of indulgement.
If the B.C. and Federal Govt made available the same amount of tax dollars that they have made available for the Winter Olympics, underfunded communities in B.C. could construct much needed recreational facilities. Just imagine the positive results. Young and old of all stripes would benefit dramatically. Such facilities as basic running tracks; outdoor basketball hoops; simple street hockey enclosures; swimming facilities; skating rinks; etc., etc., Such a venture would go a long way in solving our high rate of young offender situations, and bring about a healthier life style of all and sundry.

Amerika Uber Alles!

"This is a USA Republican-style philosophy: If your Mom and/or Dad is/are poor, TOUGH LUCK. Uncle Sam will NOT be there to help you, because the majority of taxpayers are so wrapped up in themselves that they will not part with any money to help their fellow citizens.

Do we want to continue down this road? I do not!!"
Dave49 wrote. absolutely correctly, about the "Land of Welfare Capitalism for The Rich" and "Suck It Up Economic Collapse and Repossessed Homes" for everyone else.

And despite the empty protestations of Sole Probing Himself, who needs to do some serious homework of his own, Dave49 poses the correct question for us Canadians: Is this the US Republican Fascist model of a sick society we really want for ourselves and our future generations?

Regardless of your answer, that is what you are about to get from the Harper Republican/Conservative Echo Party AND The BC Republican/Liberal Party: US Empire style "Conquer the World" fascism and its dreams of Endless War, monopoly of the real means of mass destruction, pillage of the resources of the world's poor and "Amerika Uber Alles".

What's good for America is good for Canada, and everyone else too. Like it, or we'll teach you what democracy is really all about.

Soleprobe

This is what I hear from several Canadians who live in the USA; their take on how Americans think and act. It's an extension of that notion that individual effort can let anyone be successful. At the same times it breeds a self-centrism, especially when it comes to parting with their tax dollars.

It was Bush Sr. who wanted to get the USA Federal govt out of contributing anything for welfare. Surprisingly, it was Democratic President Bill Clinton who drove in the last coffin nail.

dave49

This is a collectivist/communist/socialist site all in the guise of charity and caring for the less fortunate. History has shown that true charity can only be delivered effectively and consistently by free and innovative individuals and not by the power of the state. I’m not going to use much effort here on the virtues of freedom anymore than I would try to convert an atheist to a creationist. But America didn’t become the once greatest nation ever known and a former beacon of freedom to the rest of the world through collectivist/communist/socialist covert agendas but through the individual liberty granted to its people through their Constitution. It was a great experiment in freedom and it worked so long as their government obeyed their own laws as set forth in their Constitution.

Now the American taxpayers are beginning to realize that their governments at all levels and in all branches have gone rogue. They realize that they have been robbed of trillions, they owe trillions, they’re manufacturing base has been gutted, their military is being misused and abused and their on the brink of total collapse. And they also realize that all this came about not as the result of their individual effort but from the encroaching collectivist/communist/socialist covert agendas such as the ones prescribed here in abundance via the articles and the commentary.

I'm just glad it's almost over

It seems like forever since I could sit down and watch the news and see a real news story that wasn't an "incredible show of endurance and olympic spirit".Then there's the constant stories about our fine athletes.I'm so sick of it I could puke.The fact that the only thing they couldn't manage to fulfill was the social housing shows exactly where these games are coming from.Everybody has to sacrifice except the folks at VANOC and the athletes.they get the best of everything.I suppose this is why Gordo needed the HST dollars so quickly.

soleprobe

"This is a collectivist/communist/socialist site"

Nope, its a Canadian site. But I can see why an American Republican could get confused on that point.

Your country has fallen in to the depths you declare it has because of its right-wing dog-eat-dog philosophy. Your blaming it on a mythical "collectivist/communist/socialist covert agenda" is hilarious since no one on the rest of the planet can detect anything remotely resembling socialism in your country. Of course you do have a penchant for bailing out bankers with the average joe's money but that's not what the rest of the world has ever called socialism.

"History has shown that true charity can only be delivered effectively and consistently by free and innovative individuals and not by the power of the state."

You're wrong, history has shown that a patchwork of charities following their own agendas can never provide help that is effective and certainly not consistent. That's why countries with excellent social services see far less of their citizens living in poverty than America does.

letlive

Are you serious? You think Vancouver spending $7 billion on the Winter Olympics when BC trails the rest of the country in almost every measurement of social progress is a good thing?

The money saved by slashing funding for kid's sports programs so that we can treat multi-millionaire NHL players like royalty seems like a good thing to you?

You want to spend billions on ski teams made up of athletes that have never missed a meal rather than spend the money on alleviating child poverty?

You need to re-think your priorities or check to see if your conscience was surgically removed earlier in your life.

Keds

The U.S. spent $57.6 billion on bail-outs and Canada spent $9.5 billion?! Canada has 1/10th the population of the U.S. therefore, Canada/Harper has cost us the equivalent of $95.0 BILLION IN CORPORATE WELFARE. CAMPBELL/B.C. LIBERALS have cost B.C. taxpayers BILLIONS MORE $$.
Keds, re fast ferries....which Campbell gave away to Washington Group for $20 Million and millions in prime real estate. Campbell was offered $85 million (probably millions more) and held out for $20 million and then gave that away to his cronies along with the $1.4 billion surplus he inherited in 2001. Washington Group sold the 3 fast cats for $300 MILLION to Abu Dubai. There is now a back-order for the same ships. Campbell and his B.C. Liberal Party built the 3 c-class ferries that have always sat in dry dock 4 out of 7 days a week because they are gas guzzlers and to make the consumption appear to be much lower than it is, the top deck cannot be used because if used they would tip over, they churn up the the coastal communities and the docks because their propellers are too large and sit too far out of the water. We had to pay $11 million (could be more) on the dock to accommodate these three fiascos and they cannot run in idle while they load and unload and are destroying the dock, they constantly need parts which have to be machined in Russia and they take 2 years to get and are hugely expensive. Campbell had them made in Germany at a non-union outfit of course, and did not allow the B.C. shipyards to even bid on them.
I suggest you refer to http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/

Give the bill

Give the bills to those who voted to have the games. Remember most of BC was excluded from voicing their opionion on the games. I would never have agreed to the horrific waste of $$

mary j

quote:
"Give the bills to those who voted to have the games."
Agreed.
Do you have the address for the BCNDP or should we just send it straight to Glen?

happy

Wasn't the vote in 2003? I think Campbell was premier then.

As for Glen, I have no doubt he can afford to pay his share of the debt.

But can you?

I didn't get to vote, I don't live in Vancouver.

Gome come Frank

You know who launched the bid as well as I.
And which political partys are on record as supporting the Games as well as I.
Through three succesive elections since the bid was first launched.
As for debt repayment....I prefer to wait until the Games are actually over before any sensible discussion can be held over who owes what - if anything.
Such as the Olympic Village. Lets get together after the last unit is sold and then, and only then, can it be deemed what the final profit/loss will be.
Until then its pure speculation.

happy

"You know who launched the bid as well as I."

And Campbell was opposition leader at the time and he stood 4-square behind it and voted for it.

"And which political partys are on record as supporting the Games as well as I."

I'm not sure if I understood this line right but I think the answer is both major parties. So why do you single out Glen?

"I prefer to wait until the Games are actually over before any sensible discussion can be held over who owes what - if anything."

Have you seen the deficit figures? I think its clear what we owe.

I would think ideologically you guys on the Right would be all for the Olympics being "user-pay" like you want healthcare and bridges to be. But apparently not.

What a sad lot!

These Olympics are your baby-like it or not. Hoping they fail for your own petty political peccadilloes is a sad sight to behold. I got that same feeling when I heard that Rush Limbaugh called for Obama to fail:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011609/content/01125113.guest.html

Get over it. This event has been superbly planned. After the NDP initiated the proposal(good for them!), and it was backed by 64% of the Vancouver population(with an amazing 50% turnout), a minimum number of new facilities were constructed. These faced cost pressures(concrete, steel, etc.) that were unprecedented. They were completed years ahead of the event. Well done.

Let's not confuse associated costs with the costs of VANOC.

The Sea to Sky highway to Whistler is a superb, constrained use of funds. This road was "paid for" many years ago by tourists vacationing in Whistler. It is an efficient delivery system that allows speedy access from YVR to Whistler with minimum number of accidents and deaths. Whistler provides a substantial % of the tourist revenue of the province. That revenue pays for education and health care. We should wish for maximum success here.

Don't confuse bad business decisions made by the City of Vancouver with VANOC. The city was given a substantial sum to house the athletes-COPE and Vision must accept responsibility for this arrangement.

No one can argue with the Canada Line. It is a great addition to the city, funded by all levels of government and the private sector. Do we hold the Expo 86 organization responsible for cost of the Expo Line? No. Then let's not do it for the Canada Line. This is an infrastructure cost amortized over the next 75 years.

The point here is that this is a fiscally responsible situation, managed to near perfection by John Furlong and his organization. He will not be out of work very long.

Given that these games are now "in play", don't you think it is time to ensure that they are a great success? Their legacy will colour the world's view of Vancouver and British Columbia. At this point the Vancouver Whistler Olympics are our child. Who would want their offspring to fail simply because they don't like their child's politics? Get with the idea that was originally put forth by the NDP and think big. You should be very proud of this province and country. They are about to achieve greatness in this world. And that will, over the coming years, pay for all the excellent social programs that make our part of the globe special.

heyyougetalife

Do you write motivational speeches for Vanoc employees? Just asking...

"Let's not confuse associated costs with the costs of VANOC. "

Why would we not want to do that? If the "associated" costs are associated with the Olympics shouldn't we look at the whole ball of debt? Because if I go into a bank and try out your "ignore the associated costs" angle they'll laugh me out of the office.

"The Sea to Sky highway to Whistler is a superb, constrained use of funds. This road was "paid for" many years ago by tourists vacationing in Whistler."

Really? So if I ask you to send me a million dollars so that I can spend it all in local businesses which due to the economic multiplier effect will create more than a million in economic activity will you feel richer? Based on your logic you should. The fact is, asking BCers who can't afford to go to Whistler to subsidize tourists so that the owners of the resort in Whistler can make a lot of money just doesn't fly.

"Given that these games are now "in play", don't you think it is time to ensure that they are a great success?"

Why? It doesn't matter to me if they succeed or not as I won't be attending any of it. They might as well be in Nagano for all I care about them.

"Their legacy will colour the world's view of Vancouver and British Columbia."

Again, why would I care about that?

"At this point the Vancouver Whistler Olympics are our child."

They're not mine. If you want to take ownership iof them be my guest.

"You should be very proud of this province and country."

For spending billions on a circus for millionaire athletes while winning the "gold medal" 6 years in a row for Canada's highest child poverty rate? You need to find yourself a conscience even if you have to borrow one.

"And that will, over the coming years, pay for all the excellent social programs that make our part of the globe special."

They've put us in debt and already we've seen programs cut to pay for them. That's the reality.

It is an efficient delivery system that allows speedy access from YVR to Whistler with minimum number of accidents and deaths. Whistler provides a substantial % of the tourist revenue of the province. That revenue pays for education and health care. We should wish for maximum success here.

Back at you, Frank

Frank:

I don't write speeches for VANOC, I just try to think clearly.

Let's say I am running a B and B and I throw a party, I may ask my banker for some extra $ to spruce the place up. I may build a new set of strairs so that they don't kill themselves as they arrive. I may build a new room so that my guests can socialize in comfort. I may buy a new van so that I can pick up my patrons at the airport and transport them to my business. My goal here is to create, and by doing so I enrich my world(both personally and culturally). And my attitude is: Have a great time, enjoy yourself, tell your friends, come back soon.

And they will, because they are coming to one of the most beautiful places in the world. I know this, because I have travelled extensively. They will come back here and bring their money with them. They will see BC on TV in China, Russia, Germany, everywhere. It will show off well. And over time the money they bring to BC will help pay for the kindnesses that we provide our citizens.

You need to understand bankers. If my plan makes sense(it does), then they will stand beside me, knowing that I am a good risk. Make your vision of the world bigger.

In no way is our province perfect. There are social inequities. There is child poverty. There is sickness. That is always a function of life. But making our province poorer helps no one.

I don't really get your Sea to Sky highway paragraph. Think of it this way. Whistler has returned multiple hundreds of millions of $ to the provincial coffers in municipal, provincial and federal tax revenue. A huge % comes from tourists that could spend that money anywhere, but they like Whistler. Despite the fact that many of them died on the road. Despite the fact that they waited 8 hours parked on the road and missed their plane connection because someone else died. Word gets around. How many more people would come here if they new their connections were more secure and that they had a better chance of returning home?

These are the people that have paid for the road. Not locals. And these improvements will ensure that they come back, bringing their friends and families. They will spend the money that will pay for our health care, education and other social programs.

I do go to Whistler on that highway and it is so much better than before. Unfortunately, I did hear of a death recently, but that is a rarity. The road is undoubtedly safer. And faster. Anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes less. That means less gas and less pollution. And sure I would like to go skiing 30 times a year, but I can only afford to go 5 or 6 times. Poor me. I hate people that have more money and can afford to ski so often.(NOT!) I assume that they have either worked hard and studied hard for their pleasures. Good for them.

More to Frank

You really don't understand the world. We decided to have this party a decade ago. Long before the boom and terrible bust last year. The train left the station when Vancouver citizens gave their overwhelming endorsement to host the games February 22, 2003.
The current fiscal situation in Victoria is a result of the massive destruction of the credit markets in the fall of 2007. This is not over and will continue for many years to come. It is an ugly thought, but expect multiple years of budget deficits, regardless of whatever government is in power. The Libs will wear this one as they have power now. This will be a massive assault on the provincial treasury. I do shudder to think how ugly this could get.

But that is another day. Wishing failure on the games will only ease your jilted soul. Be of good cheer. Hope that this event provides an excess of good will toward our part of the world. That way people will continue to drop by and see us, and we will need their money more than ever.

heyyougetalife

Your B&B scenario has no basis in fact. Studies on past Olympics have demonstrated that what you claim will happen, doesn't.

Furthermore, you own your B&B, you will reap the rewards of its success. That isn't how a province works. If the New York owners of Intrawest make a lot of money because the public builds them a new highway to Whistler, that money goes to New York, Fortress does not spend it on improving healthcare in BC.

"In no way is our province perfect. There are social inequities. There is child poverty. There is sickness. That is always a function of life. But making our province poorer helps no one."

I agree, but that's what happened. Our debt has ballooned, our social programs have been cut, even kid's athletic activities have been cut. The Olympics has made our province poorer.

"I don't really get your Sea to Sky highway paragraph."

That's because reality doesn't fit your myths.

If offering resorts to the world was what made economies work Mexico would be the wealthiest country in the Americas.

Our province has taken on a lot of debt (or "obligations" if you prefer the government's way of putting it) and we are going to be paying for it for a long time. In the future we'll be poorer but wiser.

Maurice Cardinal

Hey thanks Maurice, I read that link and found it interesting that even the Sun and Province could see how bad the optics are for reporters and columnists to be carrying the Olympic torch.