- Ms Kaye is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Mary Carlisle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Prem Gill is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nancy Flight is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Justin Everett is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- John Westover is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nora Etches is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Edward Henderson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Bharadwaj Chandramouli is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Dean Chatterson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Marius Scurtescu is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Robert Parkes is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- James Murton is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Susan Doyle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Vincent Strgar is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Helen Spiegelman is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Subir Guin is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Kimball Finigan is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Joanne Manley is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- David Leach is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
Olympics Spending a Shot in the Arm for British Columbia
But economists differ on its power to inoculate us from a recession.
Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon (third from left) with Sea-to-Sky contractors.
Stephen Harper's Conservative government is set to make history on Tuesday when it unveils what is sure to be the biggest economic stimulus package in Canadian history. But even if the Tory package frees up $30 billion as forecasted to combat the national recession, it's unclear how much B.C. will benefit from the deal.
After all, the province is home to about 13 per cent of Canada's population and lacks the political clout of Ontario or Quebec, making the odds of a large-scale financial injection here relatively small.
With the 2010 Olympics fast approaching, though, does B.C. already have a better stimulus package in place?
Provincial New Democratic Party Olympics critic Harry Bains told The Tyee when all is said and done, the full cost of the Games will land somewhere between $6 and $7 billion.
The number includes up to $1 billion for security, more than $567 million from local governments and about $4 billion for provincial spending on such projects as the Canada Line and Vancouver Convention Centre expansion. What's more, Bains' prediction doesn't include VANOC's newly revised and soon-to-be-released operating budget, which CEO John Furlong suggested would be in the scope of $1.6 billion.
A recent Vancouver Sun story appears to support the NDP's estimates, using slightly different figures to arrive at a $6 billion cost projection for the 2010 Games.
But those figures aren't without some controversy.
Premier Gordon Campbell insists the Olympics will only cost the province $600 million and argues capital expenditures such as the nearly $1 billion Sea-to-Sky Highway upgrade and $2 billion Canada Line extension would have happened without the Games.
Bains, meanwhile, pointed out that both those projects were included in Vancouver's Olympic bid book.
Though all cost projections are open to debate, the Olympics surely represent one of the biggest public expenditures in B.C. history. So the real question is whether a massive two-week sporting event will be a boon to the provincial economy during turbulent financial times or an enormous waste of taxpayer money.
Richard Harris, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University, told The Tyee that large-scale infrastructure spending is generally a good idea during a recession. Such projects generate construction employment, pump money into the local economy and are usually cheap to finance, because governments can borrow at low interest rates.
Harris said there's no way all Olympic spending in the lead-up to 2010 will benefit B.C., but projects such as Sea-to-Sky, BC Place's roof upgrade and the convention centre overhaul could be just what the province needs.
"Even if there were no Olympics, we would be undertaking some projects like that in B.C.," he said. "That would be the appropriate fiscal policy response in these circumstances."
Assuming the recession continues until 2010, Harris said the hordes of visitors who come to Vancouver for the Games could provide a significant boost to the local economy, possibly giving B.C. an edge over other provinces. But the economist pointed out that it'll be difficult to ever know whether economic returns from the Games justify their cost.
"We'll be debating that for years after the fact," he said.
Kevin Wamsley, co-director of the International Centre of Olympic Studies at the University of Western Ontario, told The Tyee he's doubtful the Games will do much to help B.C. out of a provincial recession.
Though he said it's unlikely that infrastructure projects associated with the Olympics would be underway right now without Vancouver's successful bid, ventures such as the Sea-to-Sky upgrade won't create lasting employment.
"I'm sure that people are seeing a short-term shot in the arm with everything that's going on," he said. "But those jobs are going to disappear when everything's done."
Wamsley pointed out that most venues are nearly completed and construction on other Games-related projects is well underway. As a result, it's unlikely workers laid off in the fall will be able to find employment under the Olympic banner.
"I fear that most of these jobs were already in place before the tough economic times," he said.
And while spending in the lead-up to the Games and an influx of visitors in 2010 will certainly help some sectors of the B.C. economy, Wamsley said it's doubtful those benefits will be felt beyond Metro Vancouver.
"I'm not sure this is the kind of stimulus that's going to affect the whole province," he said.
Related Tyee stories:
- Follow The Hook's latest 2010 Olympics coverage.
- A Killer Commute
Even after its upgrade, the road to Whistler won't be safe. - Our Olympics, Outsourced
It's a global gold rush, and VANOC doesn't give B.C. firms any advantage.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- BC snuffs out AirCare test program
- AFN national chief Shawn Atleo to launch re-election bid
- Citizens group releases video to fight undead Bill C-30
- Conservative MP says he might vote against budget, then 'clarifies' his position
- Genetically modified plants won't take root with councillors in Richmond, BC
- Hundreds at Vancouver rally to support Quebec students
- Could Fort Mac become an eco-tourist hotspot?
- Rick Hansen's Man in Motion anniversary tour concludes in Vancouver
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Who Mowed Down the Premier?
- Canada's Economy, Deconstructed (by a 12 year-old)
- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Death In Remand: 'A Gut Feeling'
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Alberta Fills Pipes with Corrosive Denial
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- How Our Immune Systems Exaggerate Fear
- BC biotech company seeks approval for GM apple
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Should You Run from that Medical Test?
- 'The Dictator'
- Death in Remand: Stacked Deck
- 'Moonrise Kingdom'
- From Financial Advisor to Occupier
- Seven Goals to Build the Conservative 'Dream'
- Double lung recipient dances on Ellen show
- ISS astronauts grab DragonX space capsule by the tail with Canada Arm
- Metro Vancouver gas prices peak at record levels
- Ottawa posts $9-billion deficit in March despite pledge to avoid spending spree
- BC phases out AirCare to focus on fighting bigger vehicle emissions
- Tsunami senors to be dropped into deep sea off of Vancouver Island
- Student groups file court challenge against Quebec protest law
- ...while on the streets, pirates and ninjas put aside mutual animosity to join student protests
78
Login or register to post comments
Rod Smelser
3 years ago
WHAT ABOUT EXPO86?
I think if Geoff Dembicki were to re-interview Harris and Wamsley and ask them what in their opinion is the best evaluation of the long-term impact of Expo86, he'd get the same answer from both of them. It hasn't been written, and it probably never will be.
mcdull
3 years ago
The rest of BC
yes great for the lower mainland but lousy for the rest of BC . Roads not fixed , plowed when it snows or De-iced when freezing. Senior and children ignored. BC NOT the best place on Earth for many.
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Olympics spending...
But if they're built as P3s (as are the highway upgrade and the Canada Line), then it's not the government doing the borrowing.
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/10/26/hiddenhugecosts/
Perhaps eventually, but the Northeast sector (i.e. the "Evergreen Line") had long been the priority. There is absolutely no question that the Canada Line was built, when it was built, for the Olympics.
I can't see how an Olympic luge track or a speed skating oval could be anything but a boon to the economy during the long recession to come!
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Olympics 2010...
Ahhhhh... the Glen Clark NDP government was the initiator for the Vancouver/Whistler 2010 games. Kudos to 'em.
What I find somewhat laughable is that many current NDP supporters despise those same Olympic games. Even NDP leader James has publicly stated that she supports the games. For that matter, even former New Democrat strategist Bill Tieleman supports the games.
I don't know where people who are anti-games are gonna park their vote in May, 2009. Now, with the politics outta the way...
I recall Expo 86... and prior to the commencement on May 2, 1986 the anti-Expo crowd. After the gates opened, they disappeared into a black hole and nobody ever heard from them again.
Even then small "l" liberal Mayor Mike Harcourt wrote the Bureau of International Expositions opposing same. Boy did he come around. Harcourt has since stated the Expo '86 was the best thing that ever happened to Vancouver.
And Calgary '88, when they hosted the winter Olympics during an economic downturn. Opinion polls thereafter have overwhelmingly confirmed public support for same.
And naturally the same will happen here in Vancouver/Whistler just as in Calgary and just as after Expo '86.
The international television draw, the exposure, the excitement, the pride... etc., etc. ... well, I reckon that... only die-hard left-wingers would oppose same for some quirky ideological reasons, IMHO. ;)
sunshine coast girl
3 years ago
Luke, you guys are getting..
quite repetitive and boring. The Glen Clark government expressed initial interest in the Games. The Libs took the ball and ran with it. And, I might add, are responsible for spending all the money.
Do you think you could move into the Year 2000 sometime soon?
And I'm sure all the British Columbians who are suffering right now will really appreciate the exposure, the excitement and the pride. I know my unemployed son will.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Sunshine Girl...
Thanks for the compliment. ;)
And if the NDP were re-elected in 2001, they would have also continued to take the ball and ran with it.... and yes... spent the money!
The NDP and Carole James continue to support the 2010 Olympic Games.
So what's you point???? :)
Grumpy
3 years ago
Um....er....no
Quote:
$2 billion Canada Line extension would have happened without the Games.
First, the Canada line has now escalated to about $2.5 billion and the scope of the project has been reduced, so much so, that as built, the RAV/Canada Line has a maximum capacity of over 5,000 pphpd less than if LRT were to be built on the Arbutus Corridor!
To increase capacity another $1 billion must be spent to increase station size. The impeder for the RAV subway was the Olympics to whiz 'Olympic' airport passengers to downtown Vancouver in 25 minutes or less!
In the real world, subways are built to handle passenger loads of 15,000 pphpd or more (note RAV.'s max capacity as built is 15,000 pphpd). It was Gordo's and Kevy's Olympic dream that made the push for a Canada line metro, a metro that cost anything up to 10 time more to build than LRT!
Note about the Evergreen Line: There isn't the ridership to support LRT, let alone a SkyTrain metro. US transit expert, Gerald Fox, shredded Translink's business case for SkyTrain on the Evergreen!
Quote:
"I found several instances where the analysis had made assumptions that were inaccurate, or had been manipulated to make
the case for SkyTrain. If the underlying assumptions are inaccurate, the conclusions may be so too."
"It is interesting how TransLink has used this cunning method of manipulating analysis to justify SkyTrain in corridor after corridor, and has thus succeeded in keeping its proprietary rail system expanding."
The same can be said of the RAV/Canada line.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Grumpy... Yeah But...
The first rapid transit study from downtown Van City to Richmond was released in 1970.. That's 38 years ago.
And yes that was lrt down the Arbutus corridor, a mostly single-family west-side corridor that exists to this day. That's unlike the existing high-density nodes along the central Cambie corridor inclusive of South Cambie, City Hall, VGH, Oakridge Mall, and Langara. The corridor makes sense doesn't it?
Now you may enjoy slower lrt with continuous road crossings but to most people travel time, capacity, and efficiency can be conducive to takin' people out of their vehicles.
As for the Canada Line approval, NDP muni-farm team councillors also approved of same. So what's your continuous beef? :)
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Luke, stop spinning, I'm getting dizzy!
Yeah, Alberta sure was hurting back then :)
The 7+ billion dollar price tag...
I'm not worried, though. I know VANOC will make that back in a pinch with Vancouver 2010 merchandise sales.
And people who can count up to 7 (7 billion, that is). Don't forget them :)
Or maybe unemployed construction workers, laid off during this BC Liberal recession.
http://tinyurl.com/avsa9c
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Not much slower, and with a much, much larger network. Thus taking more people out of their cars.
That it was a stupid decision. I would have thought that was blazingly obvious, even to you. How is any supposed NDP affiliation of the decision makers relevant? Oh wait, I see, it's the whole straw man thing you're always doing.
happy
3 years ago
repetitive and boring part 2
Last Updated: Tuesday, December 1, 1998 | 10:42 PM ET
CBC News
Qoute:
"The B.C. bid was highly favoured because Whistler's superb ski mountain. There is still much a lot of work left to do, says B.C. Premier Glen Clark, including improving the road between Vancouver and Whistler."
Chris Shaw is with 2010 Watch
Quote:
"All of this goes a long way to explaining why, in spite of significant levels of individual opposition to the games, very little organized resistance has occurred: the unions and NDP follow the lead of Georgetti and Tennessy (the bid really began under former NDP premier Glen Clark), and have been locked in from the beginning."
Walter Cordery, The Daily News
Published: Monday, January 19, 2009
Qoute:
"It was former NDP premier Glen Clark and then-Vancouver Canucks owner Arthur Griffiths who initiated the Olympic bid more than a decade ago. For the NDP to slam the Liberals for pursuing what they themselves started, seems irregular indeed.
This is part of NDP leader's Carole James selective amnesia when it comes to Olympic cost overruns. Her party refuses to acknowledge that it was they who got the snowball rolling."
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
jimmy_laroux...
I'm very familiar with economic conditions back then dude. If ya don't believe me... here ya go: :)
Ya did mention Calgary Olympics 1988 didn't ya?
http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/01.Economic_Growth.pdf
Damn... it was only $6 billion just yesterday. Another billion in just one day? :)
http://www.timescolonist.com/Sports/Olympics+bill+tops+billion/1207886/story.html
Alright...
1. Canada Line very roughly $2 billion... approved by Vancouver NDP muni-councillors and has been in the works since 1970;
2. Sea To Sky Highway very roughly $1 billion ... NDP government initiated studies to upgrade highway in 1990's (but had no money)
3. Trade and Convention Centre Expansion very roughly $1 billion ... NDP Premier Mike Harcourt stated that same was a necessity circa 1993 but had no money(~15 years ago);
And now we are down to roughly $2 billion...
Really dude, you should give the average BC'er more credit for their intelligence in these matters. ;)
But then you are, well, jimmy laroux :D
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Really? Well if you do, you've got me fooled, because the source you've provided seems to indicated fairly impressive growth into 1988, with, I'd say (eyeballing the bar graph, as no figures are provided), an average of ~5% growth from 1984 to 1988. Practically a recession! Oh, no wait, that's not a recession. You're completely wrong.
Nope. I guess you didn't read the Times Colonist article you linked to all the way through. If you had, you would have read this:
When the author writes "seven billion dollars" guess what she is referring to. That's right! Nothing other than the cost of the 2010 Winter Olympics!
"Incomplete tally", as in "this is what we've found so far and what we've found is well over six billion."
Me? Oh, I think you're mistaking me for your fearless leader, Gordon Campbell, and his BC Liberal party. After all,
Does Mr. Campbell not think British Columbians deserve free and open access to all the costs to taxpayers associated with the 2010 Olympics?
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Over 2 billion and built solely for the Olympics as it was not not a priority.
Too bad for the NDP that they could not use the artifice of P3s to hide this debt from the taxpayer back then, as the Liberals are doing. Capital projects seem much more attractive when you can pretend they don't cost anything, don't you think?
"Dude"? Seriously? How old are you? In your sixties? Late fifties, maybe? And you're writing like you're trying to pretend you're 14.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
jimmy_laroux...
Calgary Olympics 1988...
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Calgary
Notwithstanding the rest of your baffle-gab :D, do ya not even know that your...ummm... fearless leader... Carole James has positioned the NDP at 33%, a level that the NDP has not seen here in BC in ~40 years since the election of 1969 (2001 aside)???
Didn't think so. ;)
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Haha! The Pembina Institute article didn't quite tell the right story, eh? So you've cast aside your previous source concerning Alberta GDP, and are now turning to "citizendium.org", an internet wiki, as your authoritative source? You've got to be kidding me! Do you understand what an internet wiki is? I'm guessing not, as you wouldn't use one as a source if you did. Pretty embarrassing :) But then you are, well, Luke Skywalker :D
The truth hurts, don't it, when it's so starkly juxtaposed with your own errors and misleading statements:)
Who says I live in BC? And if I did, that I would be voting for the NDP? I don't defend the NDP on these threads, except to extent of pointing out what a sorry hypocrite you are (not hard to do) for attacking them exclusively while ignoring or condoning the (often much worse) dishonesty and corruption of the BC Liberal party. And that's why I'm, well, jimmy_laroux :D
Grumpy
3 years ago
Earth calling Luke..................
Quote:
"The first rapid transit study from downtown Van City to Richmond was released in 1970.. That's 38 years ago."
Travel patterns have changed a lot since 1970. In 1970, a lot of airport employees (remember far fewer people were working at the airport then) lived on Vancouver's West side. Not any more.
I would wager the majority of airport workers live 'South of the Fraser River' and RAV will have no effect on these people, as the car is the only reasonable way to commute.
The 1978 GVRD 'rapid transit' study only mentioned going to Richmond Centre and it also had LRT using the Arbutus Corridor.
Luke, too many SkyTrain myths cloud your reasoning, try reading
http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/skytrain-eight-myths-and-the-facts-oh-what-tangled-webs-we-weave-when-we-first-practice-to-deceive/
When you have real transit experts shaking their heads at our transit planning, you just know that the taxpayer is being hung out to dry.
Rod Smelser
3 years ago
So what's you point???? :)
Luke Skywalker:
The real question is what is your point. And what's your real name while you're at it.
Stump
3 years ago
Business travel on the decline
The convention centre will prove to be yet another expensive reminder of the poor economic skills of the mishmash of policies I like to call Campbell's Soup (condensed low-grade mush that needs a lot of water to be palatable).
(That's one's a freebie for all you NDP campaign strategists tuning in! Call me if you have any high-paid gigs for witty writers with a social conscience! The Tyee editors know how to get in touch with me in meat-space)
Does anyone really believe that the downward trend in business travel will suddenly rebound if and when the recession is over. By then, businesses will rely on tele-presence to do business at a distance, the outcome of high travel costs, technical innovation, and the desire to appear 'green' in business practices. Flying people around the world so they can get loaded and screw their associates will soon be little more than an distant memory of times past. Money chasing this market is as ill-spent as money thrown at the auto-industry.
Somewhere a buggy-whip manufacturer weeps for being born in the wrong century and missing out on the corporate welfare line.
http://meetingsreview.com/news/external/4033
quarry bay
3 years ago
No shot in the arm for injured workers
A REPORT TO THE BC FEDERATION OF LABOUR
Authored by----
Stan Guenther
Janet Patterson
Sarah O`Leary
Prior to 2002,the WCB awarded an average of 970 loss of earnings(LOE)pensions per year between 2000-2003.As the new act and policy took effect,the WCB considered a similar number of PERMANENTLY injured(about 1500 per year)and awarded the following loss of earnings pensions;
2006--39 LOE pensions
2007- 60 LOE pensions
Under the former act,the usual ratio was one loss of earnings pension for every 4.2 functional awards.Under the new act/policy,the ratio is one loss of earnings pensions for every 122 functional awards.
The effect of the NEW act/policy was to reduce loss of earnings pensions by well over 90%
RE VIRTUAL ELIMINATION OF REAL VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION
Between 2002 and 2005 the boards expenditures for vocational re-hab(VR) went from $130,490.000 to 1,550.000
The 2005 VR expenditures is 1.2% of the 2002 expenditure,a staggering reduction of 98%
In 2006 VR expenditures increased to 3,627,000 but that still represents only 2.8% of the 2002 expenditures.
WCB also has a default job assessment,every worker who is seriously permanently injured,no matter what his occupation is(was) is deemed(with a 2 week computer course) is qualified to be a DISPATCHER,with no loss of earnings.
There are thousands of workers who have been told,take your permanently injured body and become a dispatcher,"take it or leave it"
The VR department tells these injured(mangled)workers that " mobile head sets,special chairs,adjustable tables,can be used,as long as you have the ability to speak,you are qualified to be a dispatcher,WITHOUT ANY LOSS OF EARNINGS"
The New Campbell WCB POLICY has bankrupted 1000s of mangled workers leaving them unemployed/desperate, why doesn`t anyone in the media report this?
quarry bay
3 years ago
WCB NEW POLICY/part 2
Still with the new policy,injured workers cannot get re-imbursed for legal fees,in other words,any injured workers getting the shaft have to pay for their own legal fees,even if they win their appeals and reviews.
How is a injured worker with suspended benefits supposed to pay for legal fees?
The other most shocking and distasteful tactic that is used by WCB is....
When a permanently injured worker wins a review,or WCAT appeal,the review board or the WCAT panel makes a ruling that goes something like this.....
I find in favour of the injured worker,therefor I am sending it back to the workers case manager or WCB board for a new decision.
That sounds like a victory but it is not,the case managers/the board merely TWEAKS the DECISION and sends it back to the worker to start the 2 year appeal process all over again.
This tactic is done to starve the worker out,hoping the bankrupt worker gives up.
The remaining staff that weren`t fired at WCB follow their marching orders,the marching orders come from Gordon Campbell.
There is one permanently injured worker story I will re-tell here in......
Part 3
Skywalker
3 years ago
Sure Luke...
Boy all this spin on who should we blame for the Olympic mess is laughable. So the NDP under Glen Clark supported the Olympic bid. So Clark commented on some of the upgrading that might be necessary. So what? The suggestion that all of the secrecy, removing the olympics from the review of the Auditor General's Office, hiding the true nature of costs in other ministries, cost overruns, excluding the rest of BC from any benefit and cutting funds to other programmes is all the NDP's fault. Yeah sure...makes sense to the Liberal fan club.
quarry bay
3 years ago
Part 3
A jurneyman tradesperson who had a shattered ankle/ had pins and screws placed in ankle/ spent a year in a wheel chair.
After the initial surgery the worker developed DVTs(blood clots in shattered leg)Warfarin was administerd to help dissolve the clots before they travelled into hearts or lungs.
After 2 years of re-hab it was deemed the worker would be unable to return to his trade becuse of permanent leg problems.
The worker was put into a training program that involved lots of sitting.
The worker developed more leg clots in the injured area/brought on from sitting, the clots broke out of his leg and got into his lungs and almost killed the worker.
The worker while recovering in the hospital,was notified by WCB that all benefits have been terminated.
The workers case manager informed the injured worker that the clots and pulmonary embolism had nothing to do with his original injury.continued in part 4
quarry bay
3 years ago
Part 4
The injured worker now with no income barely able to speak or breathe appealed the decision.
The worker with walking and standing restrictions,now with permanent lung damage and having to take warfarin for life to help prevent more clots appealed.
The worker in the meantime applied for disability from the federal goverment,the worker after a ORAL hearing with Canada pension was deemed permanently disabled.
The worker was granted a small Canada pension.
The worker won his appeal with worksafe BC and the WCB board granted more restrictions for the worker.
The NEW worker restrictions were...
No prolonged standing,walking,no prolonged sitting(IE no more that 2 hours)to change postures frequently to help prevent clots.
A new work assessment was done and the Voc-rehab worker deemed that with a 2 week course,a special headset,adjustable chair,to take breaks every 2 hours to ellevate his leg,that he was qualified to become a dispatcher,(even though the worker was in his 40s, un-educated,no secondary schooling,with weak lungs from the pulmonary embolism)
The VR went on to say that the demand for dispatchers was there,the employment was readily available.
The VR agent,went on to say that the worker would start around the 10.00 per hour range and within 5 years had the potential to earn his journeyman rate,therefor there is NO LOSS OF EARNINGS.
Not only should this worker be pensioned,but the work assessment is putting the workers life at risk(against all medical advice form doctors)
7 years, 15 appeals,60.000.00 in legal fees,and the WCB win or lose are playing this game.
This story is being repeated 1000s of times in BC.
Where is the media?
BC Mary
3 years ago
Our glorious leader. Again.
The first comment on this thread has been removed. Why is that?
There is another portrait of Mr Real Estate adorning this column ...
It sits not 3 inches away from a similar portrait of Mr Real Estate adorning another Tyee column ...
and I said "NOT AGAIN!"
Why is that not allowed?
Also, when I look more closely, Kevin Falcon is all that's separating the two glorious images of the premier. A full house, you might say.
Seems legit for the peasants to start saying it's too much to bear.
David Beers
3 years ago
BC Mary, are you mistaken?
No one here has any recollection of removing a comment of yours from any thread.
On another thread we found this comment of yours (still up):
NOT AGAIN ... BC Mary18 hours agoTYEE,
Not another beautiful portrait of our Glorious Leader!
You've got them doubled up: Two portraits on one page?!!...
Is that the comment you thought was on this thread?
Confused, but always appreciative of your contributions, David
Cynic
3 years ago
When I think of the
When I think of the Olympics, I always love to remember that giant refrigeration unit, the one for the bobsledders et al. About $100 million. A nice round figure. Kinda lipsmacking. $100 million. And then there's $6 billion. Or was it $7 billion? Whatever, it's lipsmacking all around.
The Olympics remind me of the war effort. All that misery and suffering through the Depression and then shazzam! War "breaks out", spontaneously, like a pimple, and suddenly there's plenty of money. Or how about the current economic crisis? Plenty of money again, for bank bailouts. Today in BC we've got increasing poverty and homelessness. How far would all that money for the Olympics have gone towards alleviating it? Where does all this money come from, and why is it only available for some projects and not others?
morechatter
3 years ago
They Went That Away
I'm not much for keeping up on the house politics but there is little doubt its just more of the same. Its not Democratic in the least as Government is just one Big Secret. So how does anybody know whats going down when nobody gets to know exactly whats going on?
And when it comes to figures what figures are they using as its not the BC Liberals figures as thats secret stuff. So what are these predications based on what they are told? I know economist failed to tell the present as USA in a recession for a year before someone figured it out so I wouldn't bank on what these guys got to say.
And the economy will return once we hit bottom as people will find comfort in knowing this and invest in their futures in #1 country. And as comforting as that all is this is a democratic country which functions on public inquiry and scrutiny resulting in accountability and I don't think this government has any use for that.
Stump
3 years ago
reading the cards
Also, when I look more closely, Kevin Falcon is all that's separating the two glorious images of the premier. A full house, you might say.
More like a pair of jokers and a knave (the jack for those who don't know) wouldn't you say?
morechatter
3 years ago
And the Canadian Lines
failed to make Canadians dollars as Trains ended up being built outside Canada while workers migrate in. So as much as the transportation issue is a Green plus it dis not also have to be a Green minus as money fails to reach the pockets of average Canadian.
Frank
3 years ago
jimmy_laroux
Game
Set
Match
Well done!
BC Mary
3 years ago
David,
I'm so glad.
And on my latest visit to Tyee, I note with great relief that there's no photo in immediate view of The Man Who Sold B.C.
Much better, thank you.
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Thanks, Frank :)
Thanks, Frank :)
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Calgary Olympics 1988...
Time to revisit this matter again:
Perhaps Alberta unemployment rates at the time further back-up that fact:
1983: 10.7%
1984: 11.1%
1985: 10.1%
1986: 9.9%
1987: 9.7%
1988: 8.1% (Calgary Olympics)
1989: 7.3%
1990: 7%
1991: 8.3%
1992: 9.5%
1993: 9.7%
http://pcerii.metropolis.net/Virtual%20Library/RefugeeStudy/vol1/tables/tbl4_16.pdf
Damn, BC's current unemployment rate is 5.3%.
Most people grasp the facts... and others... well... ;)
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
Total spin. Most people understand that spending $7 billion on entertainment is a colossal waste of money.
But then those same people declare spending $7 billion on poor people will only make them lazy, won't help them anyway and besides we don't have the money.
I believe the term is "Court jester economics"
Fish-counter
3 years ago
$1 billion for security? You must be kidding me
How, in the name of God, can anyone spend one billion dollars of security for a 14-day sports event? Let me ask that question again, but in capital letters.
HOW, IN THE NAME OF GOD, CAN ANYONE SPEND ONE BILLION DOLLARS ON SECURITY FOR A 14-DAY SPORTS EVENT?
Especially in a province with such an outstanding and distinguished lack of security? Our pedigree goes back 25 years to Air India Flight 182, all the way to the loss of a ferry boat called the Queen of the North. Neither of those crimes appears soluble to our police force, the very people who are to provide security for the athletes of the world.
Who are the beneficiaries of the Olympics, you ask? Well, the provider of the security services for one.
As long as none of the Olympic athletes bears the slightest resemblance to Robert Dzeikanski, or the East Indian newspaper delivery driver who was (allegedly) just kicked half to death by three coppers, they should be OK.
I may be the only person in this province who feels that our police are totally out of control, but I doubt it.
If the Olympic Games are such a magnet for the International Bad Boys of the world, perhaps they should be discontinued until such time as the world is a safer place in which to live.
Otherwise, I submit that the one billion dollars would be better spent on education, healthcare or roads - anything that lasts longer than 14 days.
When the athletes arrive, would if be too much to ask that our police would wipe the blood off their boots and please, for the love of God, leave your Taser-Toys at home. Don't shoot someone just because they can't speak English.
anarcho
3 years ago
The Iron Laws of the Master Class
Cynic, you asked why the money now for the Oilylimpics. Well, there is an Iron Law at work here. It goes like this: "When it's something the people want, there is not enough money. When its something our rulers want, the sky is the limit."
A similar Iron Law works with government too. "When its something the people want, they will delay for years, decades even. When its something they want - it gets rammed through in a sitting."
dave49
3 years ago
Olympic stimulus
You have to remember that the major construction related to the Olympics is largely over. Many of the venues are up and and running. What remains is to be finished by late summer/early fall 2009. Overall, I think it will have little effect in reducing the impact of this recession.
I've heard anecdotal evidence of apartment turnover, especially in high-rent areas like Kitsilano, business downsizing, etc.
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
The quotes you provide come from a wiki. Clearly you haven't a clue what a wiki is, so I'll try to explain it to you. A wiki is a web page which can be modified by anyone. Anyone. Some random internet user who knows nothing about Calgary or its economy could contribute to the entry, like you for example. Thus these quotes are not very persuasive.
With regards to the first passage you quote (which is unattributed in the original wiki entry, by the way), your very own source on Alberta's GDP, describing roughly 5% GDP average growth per annum 1984 to 1988, directly contradicts the characterisation of the early 1980s as a "a downturn for the city in economic terms". The province's economy was growing by leaps and bounds (and thus surely was its main economic engine, the city of Calgary). The unemployment numbers are neither here nor there when it comes to characterising Alberta’s economic growth.
To save yourself further embarrassment, I’d recommend not quoting wikis (e.g. Wikipedia) in the future.
Indeed, and throughout this thread you’ve shown quite clearly you’re in the minority.
Stump
3 years ago
Fish-counter
That's some quality snark right there. I LOL'ed. Awesome!
Perhaps the billion will go in part to language lessons so the men in blue who leave you black and blue can recognize "Don't tase me bro." in a few of the more popular international languages!
Fish-counter
3 years ago
Thanks Stump. That is the nicest thing I have heard all day.
I wonder what the event horizon is for police incompetence, all out brutality and drunken driving is before Wally Oppal does something about it.
How many Robert Dzeikanskis have to die before it becomes embarrassing on the world stage? The guys in Ottawa don't care what the Poles think but do they have to make it so obvious?
How many East Indian newspaper delivery drivers have to get kicked half to death by police before it actually raises an eyebrow in Victoria?
How many ferry boats have to get rammed into an island at full speed before we run out of them? Even David Hahn must have a bag limit on that.
Is the BC legal system trying to beat the Guinness Book of World Records for the most number of murder trials possible for the death of one person, namely Rena Virk?
I would be happy if that billion went to solve one of those great imponderables. Next thing you know, there will be another trial for Clifford Olsen on the grounds that the judge didn't polish his shoes on the day the verdict came in.
We know that the law is an ass, but do we have to prove it again and again, every day? A billion security for the Olympics my ar$e. The RCMP are pork-barrelling.
G West
3 years ago
Fish-counter
Some things DO get their attention...they've ordered an audit of the Victoria Police Force.
details here:
http://tinyurl.com/cnn3u9
[LINK EDITED FOR TECHNICAL REASONS. -MODERATOR.]
Please note, it's not addressing ANY of the issues you've so ably pointed out...all of which are a concern in the provincial capital too.
It's not unusual to hear of beating(s) incidents both in and outside custody in this city as well....
There is a crisis in police services and management all across the country.
Fish-counter
3 years ago
Cop crisis
"There is a crisis in police services and management all across the country."
Thank you G West. So it isn't just in my imagination. So we blindly spend, a billion dollars for security on the 2010 Olympics. There is no legacy to that money. It is just money spent and gone. If that is any indication of how the rest of the event is being run, God help us.
I question the wisdom of holding the games in a country where the police are so consistently undisciplined. They have killed over a dozen people with their Taser Toys. Our legal system has allowed three people involved in the Air India flight 182 to be walking at large in the community. One murder has created three - possibly four trials. These are catastrophic failures of common sense. There are dozens of other examples.
Canada is a law-abiding country, compared to most others. Canadians are reasonable people, most of the time. If we spend $1 billion on security, do we have any expectation that it will be well spent? Or will it just buy more high-tech toys that will be used to kill people?
Will the 2010 Olympic Games actually benefit Canada at all, or will it be just one more excuse for the cops to throw their weight around?
At the University Games in Edmonton in 1983, a British shot-putter was late getting back to the Athlete's Village. He was refused entry for being late. He just climbed the fence right in front of the guard and said, "What are you going to do, shoot me?" Of course he didn't get shot. Today, I wouldn't want to bet either way.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
jimmy_laroux...
Disingenuous and petulance is thy name.
Again better revisit economic conditions in Alberta in the late 1980's:
I personally know that as a fact from personal experience. BC was in upswing boom mode in 1988 but Alberta was lagging behind at the time.
Using your analogy, BC achieved GDP growth rates as follows:
1997: 3.2%
1998: 3.2%
2000: 4.6%
Damn, look how healthy BC's economy was during the late 1990's. NOT. Many other variables form part of that equation. In fact, BC was in economic malaise during that period of time and the economy dominated as the number one issue in the minds of the electorate.
So what happened you may ask? Well as a result, in May 2001, the incumbent NDP government received the worst political thrashing in BC history being reduced to 2 seats outta 77.
And that speaks volumes.
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
"Damn, look how healthy BC's economy was during the late 1990's. NOT. Many other variables form part of that equation. In fact, BC was in economic malaise during that period of time and the economy dominated as the number one issue in the minds of the electorate."
Trying to rewrite history again I see. The economy was doing very well at the end of the NDP's reign as BC Stats show.
I remember even Philip Till on CKNW explaining to callers that the reason the economy was doing so well was because everyone already knew the NDP was going to be defeated in the next election. In other words he was telling people the good economy didn't have anything to do with the NDP.
Now 8 years later you've gone one further than old Philip and have declared that the economy was in fact doing badly.
"And that speaks volumes."
It speaks volumes when you have to change the facts in order to match your politics.
Frank
3 years ago
Olympics
Luke, apparently you're the only person I know that claims that a Winter Olympics provides more jobs when its over than while the facilities are being built.
Good luck pushing on that string.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Frank...
A whole lot more must be thrown into the pot for a healthy economy. Back then there was negative consumer confidence among many other factors.
Even the BC public had negative opinions of the economy... Mustel:
The people of BC sure had a different perspective of BC's economy back then than you do in your rose-coloured glasses. ;)
Putting words in my mouth again. That said, take out the word "Winter Olympics" and throw in the word "Expo '86" and well...
Anyway, the BC Central Credit Union, a non-partisan body, has this not say about same:
http://www.cucbc.com/displayjob.php?sp=35&type=SB&jid=0
Rod Smelser
3 years ago
LOUSY GRAMMAR NOT AN ACT
Disingenuous and petulance is thy name.
...
I personally know that as a fact from personal experience. BC was in upswing boom mode in 1988 ...
Damn, look how healthy BC's economy was during the late 1990's. NOT. Many other variables form part of that equation. In fact, BC was in economic malaise during that period of time and the economy dominated as the number one issue in the minds of the electorate.
So what happened you may ask? Well as a result, in May 2001, the incumbent NDP government received the worst political thrashing in BC history being reduced to 2 seats outta 77.
And that speaks volumes.
Luke Skywalker's bad grammar and forays into pigeon English would seem to be quite spontaneous, unlike some well known politicos who fake using the ending in 'in' chatter to give themselves a faux populist touch.
Closely aligned to the free form grammar are the non-sequiters and endless dumbing down of everything. What are these "other variables" in the "equation" that make three and four percent real output growth rates a poor economic performance? The following paragraph suggests the answer. The NDP lost the election by a wide margin, therefore the performance of the economy must have been poor.
In other words, political developments determine how one reads economic data. This is nothing new. Luke belongs to the school of applied politics that uses economic statistics the way a drunkard uses a lamp-post, not for illumination, but for support. It also provides a convenient cover story for election backlashes that were in fact driven by appeals the winner doesn't want to talk about, such as rallying beer parlour opinion against the Nisga'a Treaty.
[COMMENT EDITED HERE. WE DO NOT ALLOW PERSONAL ATTACKS ON THIS SITE. PLEASE FOCUS ON THE CONTENT OF THE ARGUMENT AND DO NOT PROJECT THE IDENTITY OF THE WRITER. -MODERATOR.]
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Rod Smelser...
Um, Budd...
Too funny. :) I know ya don't like the facts ... but your baffle-gab above is well, so far into outer space... I just don't have the warp drive engines to get there. ;)
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
Again you quote this wiki as though it was meaningful :) Did you not understand what I wrote in my last post? I used the simplest words I could.
Interesting you should write this, as BC's unemployment rate was quite high then, mnuch higher than the late 1990's, and higher than Alberta's at the time.
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/dd/handout/bccanlfs.pdf
1997: 3.2%
1998: 3.2%
2000: 4.6%
The change in BC GDP in 1998 was 1.3%, not 3.2%.
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/bus_stat/bcea/bcgdp.asp
Using GDP growth as a measure, BC's economy was not as healthy as in the late 1980's or mid 2000's. Certainly other provinces were outperforming BC in terms of economic growth in the late 90's, e.g. Alberta, Ontario, Saskatchewan. But I'm not sure I'd call it "economic malaise". Certainly not like we've seen lately in BC, and will be seeing in the near future.
I'm not sure why you take issue with the use of GDP in measuring the state of Alberta's economy. GDP is one of the standard measures of the health of an economy, and by far the most common used. Granted it does not address many issues, like standard of living, or how the wealth generated is distributed, and the social and environmental impact of generating that wealth.
Everyone uses GDP as a yardstick. The UN, Canada, BC. Even yourself, on other threads. But I suppose that now, since using GDP proves you wrong, you'd like to ignore it.
Indeed, but it says absolutely nothing about the economy. The outcome of elections illustrate one thing and one thing only and that is who people would like to have represent them in the legislative assembly. Their decision is no doubt based on many factors, their perceived state of the economy being one. Many other factors led to the defeat of the NDP. I'm sure you can think of some.
As for BC's economy, well, BC Stats and the Auditor General are the final word. Nice try, though :)
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
So I should just trust you? Ha! I know you too well to trust anything you write. Your dishonesty has been amply demonstrated on past threads.
Ouch! I'd have thought you'd be used to being proved wrong by now and wouldn't get so offended anymore.
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
Your oft-quoted Mustel polls do not show what people thought of the economy, it shows what people think of the NDP's handling of the economy. Which of course is two different things and which I already explained in my previous post. I am happy to again explain the difference to you if you don't understand what I mean.
As for rose-coloured glasses, I look at BC Stats and the GDP figures. Whereas you get your "facts" from Mustel polls and Wiki pages. Bonne chance with that.
BC's GDP percentage change (inflation taken into account) at Market Prices according to BC Stats :
1993 4.5
1994 2.8
1995 2.4
1996 2.5
1997 3.2
1998 1.3
1999 3.2
2000 4.6
2001 0.6
2002 3.6
2003 2.3
2004 3.6
2005 4.4
2006 4.4
2007 3.0
But by all means go ahead and continue to claim that BC's economy in 2000 was terrible and has been great ever since.
"Putting words in my mouth again."
There's an example of the "Pot calling the kettle black" if I ever saw one.
You claimed the Winter Olympics turned around Alberta and by extension will do the same for BC, and presumably did the same for Salt Lake, Turin, Nagano and Lillehammer.
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
So you would quote an economic forecast which uses GDP growth to quantify the benefits of the Olympics to the BC economy in the very same thread as you argue (poorly) that GDP growth was not a good indicator of the health of BC's (or Alberta's) economy?
That. Is. Awesome!
I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in what the BCUC has to say. After all about a year ago they forecast that
http://www.cucbc.com/newsandevents/displayjob.php?sp=35&type=SB&jid=11
Oops!
Rod Smelser
3 years ago
LIBERAL FACTS
Luke Skywalker
I know ya don't like the facts ...
Coming from you ...
What is your real name, BTW?
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
The Abbott and Costello Show... :)
Alright, what a wonderful economic position BC was in during the 1990's. NOT.
GDP figures... yep, it is one economic indicator... But BC in the 1990's had ...
1. A continued lack of consumer confidence;
2. High unemployment levels;
3. High taxation levels;
4. Business moving to other jurisdictions;
5. Even in 2000, BC had a net interprovincial outflow of 14,600 people;
6. Real per capita GDP growth between 1992 and 2000 was in last place in Canada at 5.3%;
7. Private sector investment growth between 1992 and 2000 was again in last place in Canada at 18%;
Most people remember that. If one is not in the private sector or didn't live here... well...
Frank
3 years ago
Mustel
Right now we have :
1. A lack of consumer confidence
2. Rapidly increasing unemployment (2nd fastest in the country)
3. Taxes as high now for the non-rich as ever except now its in the form of premiums, tolls, fees et al. The little guy hasn't seen his overall taxes decline. In fact, for many people their payments to government have increased.
4. Business still moves to other jurisdictions.
6. BC was also the provincial economy most affected by the Asian meltdown. BC Stats shows the GDP of BC in 1998 and it wasn't good. Hurts the average.
#8. Campbell has enjoyed massive federal transfers whereas the NDP had to suffer through Paul Martin's defict fighting.
Campbell has also enjoyed a booming national economy. Of course his acolytes claim Saskatchewan and other provinces boomed because of Campbell's policies in BC.
I'm sure you can find a Mustel poll that agrees. In fact I'm surprised you haven't already.
quarry bay
3 years ago
L S
With the culling of 60.000 thousand TURKEYS,where are you going to get eggs large enough to dip your face into?
How many times have you and your right (turkey) wingers stated that GDP is the best measure of good fiscal management?
Now our GDP is in the dumper,who ya gonna blame now?
Fish-counter
3 years ago
NUMB3RS...
"Premier Gordon Campbell insists the Olympics will only cost the province $600 million".
"The number includes up to $1 billion for security".
This must be that New Math they keep talking about.
A better use for the billion would be to build a sewage treatment plant system for the City of Victoria. That would produce a much higher return on investment and it would last longer than 14 days.
Frank
3 years ago
Fish-counter
Premier Gord's base are federal Reform party supporters. They love the whole law and order beating up hippies and Poles thing. Sewage treatment, not so much.
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
It sure is. I'm impressed at how you're able to play both parts at once.
So you've gone from Olympics spending to the economy of Alberta in the 1980’s to GDP as an economic indicator, making a fool of yourself all the while, and you've finally settled on this old chestnut. Oh well.
I'm not sure who wrote that BC's economy was "wonderful" through the 1990’s, certainly not me. It was certainly not a bad then as it was in the early eighties, or as it is now.
I'm not sure how BC ranks compared to the other provinces (you should provide a source for this statement), but according to this:
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/DATA/bus_stat/bcea/tab1.asp
BC's real GDP per capita in 1992 was 30,047 $, and it was 32,823 $ in 2000. This is an increase of ~9%, not 5.3% as you state.
It's interesting to note, however, that BC's population grew much faster through the nineties than since. In the early nineties, BC was growing at twice the rate it is now. Higher population growth results in lower real GDP per capita growth.
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/pop/pop/BCPop.asp
Starting at about 10% and dropping every year until about 7%. Much higher than now, though not as nearly high as the “upswing boom mode” of the late eighties you reminisce about above.
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/dd/handout/bccanlfs.pdf
I’m not sure “high taxation levels” is an economic indicator.
Which ones? Name a few.
quarry bay
3 years ago
Fish-counter
What stinks more,Victoria`s aging sewage system or Gordon Campbell`s olympic size lies?
Rod Smelser
3 years ago
CURRENT WAGE INDICATORS
Someone should get a graph together showing average wage rates in BC and Alberta. It will show that in the last few years Alberta's average wage levels have met and now surpassed those of BC. That's happened under the BC Liberals.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
More BC Stats... So How Does BC Compare...?
From StatsCan:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-010-x/00506/9196-eng.htm
BC Unemployment/Employment:
1991: 9.9%/60.3%
2001: 7.7%/58%
2008: 4.6%/63.5%
BC Disposable Income Per Capita:
(Chained to 2002 Dollars):
1991: $21,212
2001: $21,449
2007: $25,282
BC Net Inter-provincial Migration 2007:
No. 1 in Canada: 15,520
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/pubs/mig/mf2007.pdf
Better to be in the top 5 in Canada at any point in time than in last place. Time to move on...
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
You've gone back to that same article how many times? By my count you've quoted it at least 4 times and I've probably missed about a third of the times you've posted. I assume you have a very limited supply of ammunition?
Thank god in the 1990's we had a government that tried to maintain health, education and social programs in the face of Paul Martin's slash and burn tactics. The federal Liberals gutted Canada's social system and were cheered on by their provincial counterparts and Preston Manning's Reform Party.
The Reform party supporters of course always stand against anything that helps people at the bottom, why should your go-to authors "P. White, M. Michalowski and P. Cross" believe any different.
I'm sure they cheer the fact that under Gordon Campbell our debt has tripled, child poverty is #1 in Canada and huge cracks have appeared in social housing, senior's care, health care etc.
Strangely the NDP were able to manage BC's programs better than the Liberals even though the NDP didn't enjoy the federal largesse that Campbell enjoyed. Proving of course that the NDP were better managers than the current crop.
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Luke Skywalker
I see you've not addressed any of the points I brought up in my last post :)
From the article:
2.9% is not that bad, and is not far off the 3.4% growth since 2000. And of course the NDP were not in power in 1990, 2001, and most of 1991.
Review the point I made above concerning population growth.
The article mentions something very important:
BC (especially Vancouver) has been in a housing bubble for the last few years. That bubble is in the process of bursting:
http://tinyurl.com/9ebdxy
http://tinyurl.com/b9xh3s
http://tinyurl.com/lzpzk
Which does not bode well for BC's employment figures:
http://tinyurl.com/aptxzz
since
And as for commodities, well...
http://tinyurl.com/ahfr6p
Fish-counter
3 years ago
Quarry Bay
Victoria doesn't have a sewage treatment plant. In 2009 A.D. they are holding their effluent releasing it on the ebb tide into the Strait of Juan de Fuca. That is not sewage treament. It is controlled release.
They may call it what they want. The folks in Seattle use it as a stick to beat anyone over the head who thinks about holding their conferences in Victoria. I don't blame them.
jimmy_laroux
3 years ago
Frank
It's his Little Red Book :) He clings to it, though it does not tell the story he would like people to believe it tells.
Good point about the Federal government in the nineties. Transfer payments to BC have seen staggering rise since 2001.
Frank
3 years ago
Mustel
I believe Mustel released a poll today showing 99% of BCers love having a premier that drives drunk. Which sounds like something Mustel would endorse.
Frank
3 years ago
jimmy_laroux
And of course you're bang on about Campbell being propped up by residential construction. Although true-blue Libs claim that Campbell is the reason for all of Canada experiencing a boom in that sector doncha know :-)
Considering what the right-wing hero Mike Harris wrought in Ontario, not to mention the drunken Klein in Alberta, the 1990's NDP in BC, Sask and Manitoba look like oasis of reason.
Frank
3 years ago
Rod Smelser
"It also provides a convenient cover story for election backlashes that were in fact driven by appeals the winner doesn't want to talk about, such as rallying beer parlour opinion against the Nisga'a Treaty."
Exactly, one of Campbell's lowest moments, which for him would have to be pretty extreme. Blatantly using natives as a target to further his own political ends. Something the Right tends to resort to quite quickly, any why not? its not like their supporters offer any resistance.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Frank, Jimmy, Budd...
I hear that Carole James is lookin' for some further economic advice.
Ya guys interested?? :D
Frank
3 years ago
Ms James
She doesn't need it, she can just look at what Campbell did and do the opposite.
Can you imagine what it would be like to live in a province where we didn't pay tolls on every bridge until 2040?
Where we didn't ring up massive debts on parties for athletes and Campbell's base?
Where out government members weren't constantly telling us "that's before the courts"?
Where we didn't lead the country in child poverty?
Where homelessness wasn't common place?
Where senior's actually received good care?
Where Children's Services considered kids to be the top priority?
Where tax cuts for the well-off weren't paid for by fee and premium increases on the little guy?
You can't? Well, don't feel bad, Gordon couldn't either. But Ms James might.
zalm
3 years ago
Jesus Christ, Luke
I don't know how you do it. Face all bloody, stomped senseless, thinking all garbled, but the mouth still going, even if it is gibberish - you must feel like Rocky Balboa after every one of his movies, hoping against hope that the one remaining brain cell undergoes meiosis before the next punch lands....
I'd like to wade in to point out that your last screed forgot to mention that BC's economy did so poorly 90's was because the export market fell into the dumper, and the feds kind of forgot to help BC's trade along - too busy supporting Central Canada's manufacturing trade missions to worry about lumber, I guess.
In fact, if it wasn't for a modest amount of initiative on the part of the NDP to encourage Hydro to market its power sales externally so that the province could tax the shit out of them on water rights, BC would have been a whole lot worse off. Funny how power sales never occurred to the previous administrations.... they just gave away the electricity free with the dams.
But I guess I won't bother - it's unlikely you'd hear me anyway.
zalm
3 years ago
Laced, trussed, braised and fricasseed
Nice work, Jimmy Laroux. You used everything but the farts, I see. Maybe the cleanup staff can take those out too....
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
zalm...
I'm gonna have to get on my shoe phone with the chief over at CONTROL for another meeting under the Cone of Silence in order to respond to this KAOS.
dr evil
3 years ago
zalm
I suspect LS is more than one person.
Who knows R2D2 and c3p0 may be in there to.
Darth himself maybe.
Seriously...LS never posts on weekend and seems to put in a steady 40 hours a week on the job here.
I don`t read him (them?) at all....its almost like key words get an automatic response from them.
An office some where...certain words ...
taxes, Olympics, Gordo set off a red alert and they scramble.
zalm
3 years ago
Serious doubt it
More like Eliza, the program. Input a certain sequence of words, and the primitive AI program spits out a random sequence of phrases from a stock warehouse...
But you know, this is all good exercise. We have to know why we know what we know. When Luke doesn't, or when he makes it up, we strengthen our intellects by actively demolishing the bogus nonsense that comes out. It's good practice for holding our elected representatives to account, no matter who or where they are.
I just wish when Luke goes 404 too often, that a reset button could give us a break from him for a day or so while he reboots.
Rod Smelser
3 years ago
JUST TELL US YOUR NAME INSTEAD
Luke Skywalker
I'm gonna have to get on my shoe phone with the chief over at CONTROL for another meeting under the Cone of Silence in order to respond to this KAOS.
Instead of checking in with your handler, just tell us your real name. If you have one. BTW, does the pigeon stuff (gonna, lookin) reflect instructions from above, or is that your own special bit of creativity? Maybe it's your way of promoting the Bob Plecas-Bud Smith tradition in BC politics.
The StatCan piece is good as far as it goes, but it does make the mistake of treating the decade of the 1990s as a single period. It's a fashionable thing to do, but it's not always helpful.
You'll note though that it was neither declining exports nor any decline in business investment which caused BC's per capita and total GDP to grow slowly in the last half of the 1990s. It was a bust in residential investment. StatsCan does not attribute any causation to this event, but I will offer up a couple of theories. One, the Vancouver market over priced itself. Two, there were growing quality problems with leaky condos.
And my third point is one of those things, an over priced market that has simply burned itself out, is repeating itself now, even a year before any post-Olympic effect has had an opportunity to alter the expectations of potential buyers.