Highest municipal land taxes in Canada...

...that will be the "legacy" of the Olympics to Vancouver residents.

Unfortunately, I doubt it

Vancouver will use its property endowment fund to secure the loan in the first place, and then will sell off parts of the property endowment fund as needed to maintain financing until the condos sell.

At a loss.

So much for Vancouver's $2 billion property endowment fund. This is money I'd rather have seen spent on housing for the poor and possibly the homeless.

We'll be doing exactly what I castigated Richmond for doing to get the Oval. Shame on Richmond, shame on Vancouver. And an extra dose of shame for Larry Campbell and Sullivan.

Over to you, Luke Skywalker. Laugh away...

Time line, to be continued

November 14, 2002

City of Vancouver signs Multi-party Agreement: The MPA established a clear understanding of the roles and working relationship of all signatories and the contractual arrangements between them. It addressed a range of issues including financial contributions, legal responsibilities, and the sport legacies of the Games. In the MPA, the City of Vancouver made its commitment to build the Olympic Village subject to a $30 million contribution by VANOC.

April 3, 2006

City Council selects Millennium Properties Ltd. as developer of Olympic Village: Following a rigorous selection process that began in 2005, Vancouver-based Millennium Properties Ltd. was chosen in a unanimous vote by City Council to design and construct the buildings for the first phase of Southeast False Creek and Olympic Village development.

March 30, 2007

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070330.VANBODDY30/TPStory/?query=TREVOR+BODDY

It Ain't That Bad...

That's a boo boo. Fortress is Millennium's construction lender, certainly a long arm's length transaction. Fortress has never owned Millennium.

Achhhh, Fortress bought Intrawest's North American ski assets in its leveraged buy-out of Intrawest. And Whistler/Blackcomb is the crown jewel in terms of cash-flow and asset quality. I know a few cash-endowed parties that would love to pick up that asset in its singularity. Same asset, same employees/management.

OK, now to Vancouver's Olympic Village. Let's take the politics out of it right from the start, shall we? Councillors from all civic parties (NPA, VV, COPE) voted unanimously, in-camera, on all financial matters thereto.

Hindsight is 20/20, but Millennium offered an exorbitant amount for the land on a sq. ft. basis at the time. While they are a well-known developer, Concord Pacific had a lower land price bid but also had the better financial covenant. What's done is done.

Another problem is that the purchase arrangement required that the City of Vancouver retain ownership of the lands. Try getting $750 million in construction financing under that land title arrangement. Virtually impossible.

Millennium approached the Canadian chartered banks. They frowned upon same. Millennium then approached an unconventional lender... Fortress.

Due to the credit crisis, in mid-September Fortress halted construction loan advances. They were unable to advance any more funds... the hedge fund redemption crisis creeps in here. Fortress utilized default mechanisms within its loan agreement to cover its butt.

Thereafter, we find out today that the City of Vancouver has been advancing $100 million in construction advances, which runs out January 15, to keep the project going under its commitments to VANOC.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, some bright minds (names withheld) should be able to bring the project to fruition.

As for the projected $1.2 billion in projected sales, that's now a wet dream. The City will have to take a bite on the property purchase price. Nevertheless, the development is an extremely desirable area adjacent to False Creek. Heck, I would even like to live there.

The City of Vancouver might even be able to utilize the Municipal Finance Authority with interest rates currently posted at 1.885% from the current Fortress financing rate of ~8%.

I doubt that the City will be exposed to much risk in the end, albeit it also likely won't be the profitable venture as initially visualized.

New podium design for the Olympics

How about the podiums resembling bent over taxpayers...that way the athletes could stand on their backs to receive their medals?

It is always a racket

"Vancouver taxpayers could be left in the lurch.'

Heh, heh And it took Montreal taxpayers 30 years to pay off their Olympic folly. Don't say we didn't tell ya, suckers! But I have a suggestion. Refuse to pay for it and bill the crooks whose idea it was.

Fortress-Millennium

If/when a financially-strapped homebuilder gets into trouble, it's the habit for the bank, the subtrades and/or other affected parties to slap liens on what exists of the property to date.
I'm sick of hearing that taxpayers, once again, are on the hook for all the bills but few of the benefits. What I'd like to see, if it's legally possible, is for the City of Vancouver to slap liens on any and all Millennium-owned properties in Metro, and to garnishee the salaries of the corporate bigwigs until the $875 million is repaid.
In the meantime, NO municipality should approve another Millennium or Fortress-backed project until this mess is sorted out.
I can hear people complain that such a move would deprive 'ordinary' workers of jobs. Maybe so, but what price the jobs when projects are cancelled?
When, in the last ten years, have we ever heard a council or regional board say, "We don't believe this company is sound enough to complete the project? What happens to taxpayers if it fails?"
Yet, if we can believe the news reports that is what the former CFO of Vancouver had been telling the NPA-dominated council for over two years.
IMO, the failure of this project can be laid at the the feet of Gordon Campbell, who has pushed these politically-motivated 2010 "legacies" beyond all reason.
Lastly, legislation should be enacted that says, 'whenever taxpayers dollars are to be involved in a capital project over $5 million, the business plan must be subjected to an arms-length audit-analysis, and the audit report made public for comment.'
Pacificats are peanuts by comparison with the ---- that Campbell has let us in for... and that comment is from a voter who helped him get where he is!

Hey, ideah!

"So much for Vancouver's $2 billion property endowment fund. This is money I'd rather have seen spent on housing for the poor and possibly the homeless."

So, we'll own lots of vacant condos, that the taxpayers (that's us) have paid for, willy nilly. Why NOT let the poor and homess live in them? Aren't they ours to do with what we want?

Dorothy has a point

Why not let them live in the vacant condos as money for new homes, new schools etc has found its way in the the Olympic venue like everything else as the cost to taxpayers is double trouble as its what it cost to run the city for the year so what do you do with that? And rental prices are going down its a given along with the poor living high on the hog so to speak as homes of the rich become available to the poor. Did you know many fancy homes are rented out to the poor in the US apparently can't find anyone else to rent to.

Silliness

All this nonsense and over what, a two week circus that most taxpayers cannot afford to go to? Unbelievable. Divvy up the bill and send it to Campbell and the rest of the sheep who were for it.

Isabella-2

As I pointed out above, the City of Vancouver administration of LARRY Campbell signed the original contract including the Olympic Village, in November 2002. Yes, Gordon Campbell was in office in Victoria at the time but it was not his deal. The City of Vancouver again was responsible for the design of the project (see above link to Globe story) and 2006 the City of Vancouver Council selected Millennium Properties Ltd. as developer of the Olympic Village. The City of Vancouver accepted Millennium's offer for the land.

If anyone can show that Gordon was able to twist the arm of the Larry Campbell administration, or the arm of the Design Panel, or the arm of the City officers that selected and signed this deal then fine, you have a story that should be published but I don't think that's possible. Ask Larry or someone at City Hall to come forward and lay the blame on Victoria, please. It won't happen. This was and is a City of Vancouver deal, that came forward after the successful bid that was led by the NDP administration of Glen Clark.

Lasting Legacies...

Every City wanting to host an Olympics, touts the line that the Olympics will leave lasting legacies for all to enjoy once the events are over.
(Cue violin track.)

The Montreal/Quebec taxpayer had The Big O.
(Cue gemissement (groaning), maudire (cursing) en francais track.)

Why can’t the Vancouver/BC taxpayer have the Olympic Village as their lasting legacy?
(Cue cheering by supporters at General Motors Place when Olympic announcement made track.)

And, in recognition of this proposed legacy, dare I suggest it could be re-named The Owe & Lien Village... ????
(T.M. pending) (Cue cash register sound/black hole sucking track)

Heh-heh

A thousand condos for a billion bucks - that's a million dollars apiece. I think we can do a better deal than that. After all, Candela Place cost about $85,000 a unit and this new restoration on Hastings at Carrall that opened a couple of days ago cost $320,000 a unit.

I'd suggest they'd be sold to members of the IOC - at our price. They want this Olympics to go ahead, each buys a unit.

It's pocket change for them - they're living in million-Euro-plus palaces in Geneva now.

Me, I'd like to investigate Millennium's dealings a little further. They've gotten the boot in West Van after they failed to pay a $58 million servicing fee, they're broke in Nanaimo, they had the audacity to put a bid in on Lonsdale even after Nanaimo went tits-up.... How they can isolate each of their projects from themselves without their bankers getting nervous is very puzzling to me. Of course, perhaps that's why they were paying the exceedingly high interest rates (8-11%) that they were. But they have billions in projects in France, and they're experienced at moving their money around (and their residency too) to avoid paying taxes.

Memo to Gordo - that's why PPPs don't work- the rate of return demanded by these big firms is alwways far in excess of what the taxpayer would be willing to pay if he or she knew all the details. That's why Abbotsford's new hospital is being flogged off at a 17% premium to the market right now.

If we taxpayers are going to leave money on the table, I'd rather it was paid to the trades and business owners who spend their money in our economy, not going to some spoiled rich moneysluts in New York boardrooms.

Who Holds The Best Cards?

We now know the Olympic Village project is a bust for Vancouver taxpayers. The big question now is how do we defer these inherited costs that were hoisted on us by incompetent and paid for politicians and the usual array of shady/greedy business types.

The world financial crisis is certainly a major factor here. Which has implicated Wall Street and many individual players in outright fraudulent ponzi schemes.

The IOC's reputation may also be on the line. In that they have a very strong interest in seeing the games go ahead.

It has been said in the past that "Olympic games are the kind of event that privatizes the profits and
socializes the losses."

Lets not forget, the Olympic Village is only one of many extra financial costs. We also have the Convention Centre, Security Costs, loss of business costs (people do stay away from places like Whistler during games and security will make Vancouver a zoo during this period as well). That was just my own short list that we all know and agree will cost at least another $2 billion. But what will the real costs to us the taxpayer be?

We are still a year away from the 2010 opening ceremonies, which may give us time to trade off some of the cards we have been dealt. The financial crisis is considered by many to be only just starting to show its depth of coverage.

This year of grace before the games begin is the crack in the door we as taxpayers and our politicians (Robertson & company) need to take this issue its full legal course. This year before may be our best leverage to cancel the games and/or tell those financial institutions who are trying to hold our feet to the fire, that we won't pay what they claim we owe them.

We as Vancouver's citizens must demand that our purse strings stay shut until our cold, dead hands let go.

ass backwards

Speaking of the things we have to do, because of those olympics, GM place needs an uplift to be suitable for the ceremonies, and the cost is in the millions.
That may be justified, but it make no sense to defer getting the roof done till after all the interior work is done!
There is a real possibility that the old roof will tear open again and rain / snow will wreck what work already has been done inside.
It is not like they can save money by installing a new roof at a later date, that will get more expensive the longer we wait.
Ask any builder, the first goal is to seal from the elements! then and only then do you work on the insides.
Who is in charge of this insane asylum?

alive

I'm sure you meant BC Place

Who knew?

Those of us that voted against the Olympics knew that the cost estimates of Vanoc and the Province were way to low. Their security estimates were not even confirmed by the RCMP and will end up being about $800M over budget. Gee do you think anyone will lose their job for this colosal budgeting blunder? Not likely!
Not only will the costs be much higher then anticpated, but the suffering economy and real estate market will drag this circus further into the red.
Cost overruns to surely total in the billions and the so called leaders of govenment and business will just walk away. Yet, they put an 80 year old women in prison, and she served the full sentence, for protesting the clear cut through Arbutus Ridge. In all honesty, where is the outrage? Those responsible should be at least be pelted with rotten eggs for this scandal.

What surprises me that

What surprises me that anybody is surprised?

But then, never discount the gullibility of the faithful!

The Olympics are no longer a "game" but a big business show biz racket, designed to steal from the public.

The interesting fact is that the original "games" have been turned into professional entertainment by the Soviet bloc, who were the first to pay their performers.

We, here in the Interior, have paid very dearly for Expo 86, and although many in Vancouver have also paid the price, now it is both Vancouver's and the whole province's turn to pay both the open and especially the hidden costs, so that a few politicians can sit on the VIP benches for a few days.

Then come the maintenance costs of the expensive infrastructures, going on for ever.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Anybody with any business

Anybody with any business experience and brains should have figured it by now that P3s are fraudulent exploitation schemes.

The excuse that the government doesn't have to borrow is the silliest and most transparent fraud.

For one thing, it makes no difference who borrows. If the public has to pay, it is still a public debt.

Governments can get very good interest rates, paid by the public, but with P3s the public not only has to pay the higher interests and then interests on the interest to the private borrower, doubling or tripling the real costs.

Then the private outfits that run the services are usually out to cut services to the public, wages and conditions to the employers, resulting in lousy conditions all around.

How on Earth can governments get away with this racket is one of the mysteries of public ignorance that has ruled the world from day one.

Ed Deak.

Party for the rich and entitled

Ah! This article explains why the NPA didn't want the contract to go public. It is too embarrassing for them. When politicians say that we can't go public with the details, they are covering up. There should not be so much secrecy in government. Look at the BC Liberals saying they can't let the public know the details of the sale on BC Rail to CN because CN is a private company. That is just ludicrous. It is (was) our railroad so it should be public! The same is true here. we need a College of Politicians they way we have a College of Teachers. We need a place to go to find out if they are on our side or just self-serving egoists.
But then we must remember that the Olympics are a party for the rich and entitled paid for by the workers. It is almost just like a 2 week senator-ship.

Hey, Carole James.....

What kind of remedy to all this scamming does the NDP have to offer? Seems to me that this an opportune time to win some converts.

ME2...

You're in luck!

That's gonna go over really well with interior British Columbia residents. And while we're at it, why not assist Richmond taxpayer's with the cost over-runs on the Speed Skating Oval?

A MISTAKE ON HARRY'S PART

If that's what Harry and Carole James and the NDP are recommending, I think it's a mistake. Voters outside the Lower Mainland are already footing the bill for the Dobell/Taylor cost overruns on the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre. Adding more to the load is hardly what they are interested in.

About three years ago I started picking up on the first bits of resentment over the amounts of money being poured into Vancouver and district for the Olympics. On a Holiday Season trip to visit relatives in Kelowna one of them explained that with Expo86, they could afford to take their family there, but that he and his wife were simply not in the market for $500 per seat Olympic hockey tickets.

Luke

Where's the Harry Bains quote from and in what context? I can't find it, and I'm tired of having to look up your "evidence" when you should be providing citations....

...Not that Harry isn't dumb enough to have said that, but it's a lot more likely he'd be walking around minus two lips and a tongue when Carol caught up with him. The best medicine now is to let the chips fall where they may and worry about picking them up in April - a lot closer to election time when the Fiberal spin machine is in high rpm and too top-heavy to change course.

zalm

Luke got the quote from here

http://www.no2010.com/node/523

Thanks Frank

Puts it in an entirely different context, doesn't it?

As with most out of context quotations, timing is everything. Not that some people care - for many the only issue they've ever been able to reckon with is the view from Glen Clark's deck....

On the other hand, it is probably unavoidable that all the notes payable are going to end up in the taxpayer's file anyway...a point the Campbell Government is loathe to acknowledge.

Not surprisingly Campbell's supporters would and will do everything they can to dissemble and obfuscate on that point....

Fortress = a hedge fund pump and dump

And its been mostly "dump" ever since going public, IMO...

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=fig&sid=0&o_symb=fig&freq=1&time=9

The Home Front

NDP MLA Harry Bains is quite right. "Why are Vancouver taxpayers being asked to pay $100 million?" Bains asked. Could be more than that Harry. Let's vote the NDP back in and have all British Columbian's pay this tab.

Some people are suggesting that Vancouver remove the 20% Social Housing and waterfront day-care from the project, then sell the condos instead. I can't imagine Vision and the NDP going for that.

Maybe Gregor and Vision might consider raising the Social Housing content for the homeless he's promised housing for. It would be cheaper for the City if the NDP is prepared to make all BCers pay, no matter whether they live in Victoria or Prince George, or Revelstoke.

Fortress Investment Group LLC Statistics

Fortress Investment Group LLC Key Statistics;

Market Capitalization: 177.86M
Profit Margin: -24.04%
Operating Margin: -81.53%
Return on Assets: -24.44%
Return on Equity: -126.46%
Qtrly Revenue Growth: -25.10%
Net Income Avail. to Common: -216.64M

Houston, I think we've got a problem...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=FIG

Bains

When Bains made that statement was months ago.

The circumstances were, if you'll recall, somewhat different and the numbers were a little less dire - to say the least.

There is no doubt about where the buck stops - and that has been acknowledged from the beginning - the taxpayers will wear the bills - just like the 50 odd billion in debts that Campbell has saddled them with.

The point now is who gets to have the egg dripping rightfully down their faces in the run-up to May 12.

It seems unlikely that the province will be driven into bankruptcy - which is where many of Campbell's friends like Fortress are likely headed - therefore the point seems to be how to get out of the mess he's put us in without hurting the most vulnerable citizens of the province. The exact same people his government has been shitting on since 2001.

alive

Well said. I agree with what you suggest.

GWest, Bains's statement was only two months ago. That's not a long time. The situation has hardly changed in such a few weeks. Are you suggesting that Bains and the NDP are backing off?

Of Course, the 20% Social Housing component of what some are claiming is a $1 billion project, could, theoretically, be sold off as market housing for around $200 million.

If the Province or the Feds steps in with loads of cash could they negotiate for title to the land. Would Vancouver and Robertson give it up?

Not at all

Two months = months. Q.E.D.

At the time Bains made the statement we were talking about a loan guarantee - the situation (the discussion of which you were more than happy to keep behind closed doors remember?) is completely different now.

Just to underline one point: Half a billion beans is a lot more than 100 million - duh!

I don't know what the NDP policy will be - I know it's disingenuous to suggest that a statement made in the middle of the civic campaign has any relevance today.

The situation is completely different - not least because the Sullivan Council lied about what the city was doing and had gotten the citizens into.

You've forgotten, I take it, the lies about Ms Lo and her 'holiday'?

In the end, as I and others have written often, this is Campbell’s mess and if the city can’t pay the province will have to pony up the cash and add to a debt load that makes – since you’re always into comparisons – the situation at the end of the NDP regime look like child’s play.

The financial mismanagement and incompetence of this current group of lobbyist pleasers is really quite breathtaking, don’t you agree; all the while the same group of ill-mannered clods pretended to be open and accountable….and while the situation for the citizens who needed assistance simply got worse.

Revealing

"Just to underline one point: Half a billion beans is a lot more than 100 million - duh!"

So what you're in effect saying is that the NDP is only a fair weather friend. Since the situation is now possibly more profound then the NDP do not now have the same compassion towards Vancouver taxpayers as they did have? All over a real-estate completion loan?

Not at all

Simply 'read' what I wrote.

When Bains made his comment it was two months ago as you well know; the civic election was not yet history and your friends were lying their faces off to the media and making mock-serious noises about the fact that Robertson hadn't paid a fare-violation fine and the sanctity of council secrecy . Have you forgotten?

I'm saying nothing of the sort. Since 2001 the affairs of this province have been administered like those of a local mafia boss.

The NDP policy is completely irrelevant to these matters unless the current government does the right thing and cancels the Olympics and sends all its crooked friends back to whatever rock they crawled out from the moment Gordon Campbell came to power and decided he was going to be the province's CEO.

You and I both know that's not going to happen - the Premier and his office mates are going to lie and cheat and steal to the very bitter end and, if the good people of this province don't have enough sense to send him to retirement in Maui come May 12, God knows what the future holds.

It couldn't get much worse than this.

The object of shifting the attention of the long-suffering citizens of this province is not a particularly noble one...So let's not pretend that what Mr Bains said a couple of months ago has any more relevance than most of the stuff luke posts in his never-ending job of trying to distract the readers' attentions.

Better Review Some More Facts...

The City sold the land to Millennium at an incredibly high cost per sq. ft. at the peak of the market.

All councillors voted in favour of the bid. From then on it's a done deal.

What normally would happen is that the lands would then be registered in Millennium's name with the City taking back a first mortgage, less the deposit.

Millennium would then obtain secondary construction financing from likely the chartered banks. Under that scenario, the city is wholly secured. And if the lender failed to advance additional funds to completion as currently exists, the City simply has to commence foreclosure proceedings to either obtain what's due and owing or regain title to the property with the current improvements. A win-win situation for the city.

But that's not the case here and it's much more complex than that.

The City retained ownership of the lands and Millennium was unable to obtain construction financing. They were turned down by the Canadian chartered banks.

They eventually did obtain financing from an unconventional lender, Fortress, but apparently Fortress required additional guarantees from the city including a completion guarantee by the City, still owning the lands, in order for construction funds to be advanced in September, 2007.

And then we throw in the city's obligation to VANOC to complete the Olympic Village before the games. More complexity.

On that note, apparently VV councillors voted against same. But we haven't seen all of the documents surrounding this matter and it appears to be a situation of being stuck between a rock and a hard place... a verifiable Catch-22. No guarantees, no financing, no project, no Olympic Village.

Then Fortress halts any more advances toward construction in mid-September. The City assumes responsibility for advancing $100 million in construction funds to keep the project going. Approved by all councillors.

And this City of Vancouver press release from November 6, 2008, says it all:

And that says it all. That's what happens when real estate transactions are complexly structured... the more complex... the more things that can go wrong... as opposed to the simpler version described above.

Where is Campbell and Hansen?

Have I missed any media people trying to get some answers from Campbell or the finance minister regarding fortress/intrawest? This is out of control and far more dangerous for taxpayers than the "fast ferries" issue that the press found so outrageous. Seems to me that Mayor Robertson is the only elected official we've heard from. This mess is not his fault, but will probably put the city in debt to the point where everyhting suffers. I expect media to put some pressure on the premier and how this will affect the budget.

Who voted for what

The way NPAcolytes and their Fiberal cohorts are so eager to spread the blame is proof positive everyone thinks this is a terrible deal for taxpayers. So, I think we need to ask who was in charge when the deal was structured?

Further, taking the opposition councillors to task for voting to try and save the city from showcasing an unfinished development rather than an Olympic Village come 2010 is akin to saying the Queen of the North passengers must have approved a course heading straight onto the rocks, since they were willing to get in the lifeboats.

GWest

"...mock-serious noises about the fact that Robertson hadn't paid a fare-violation fine and the sanctity of council secrecy . Have you forgotten?"

Have you forgotten? The first thing that Robertson did was hold a four hour secret, In camera, Metting!

http://www.francesbula.com/?p=790

This is, in fact, great for Gregor. Although this deal is only looking for a bail-out for completion and will ultimately be financially viable and, at worst, the city will have to pick-up a few interest percentage points, Gregor can now use it to hike property taxes a whole lot and blame the previous NPA.

Remember that the City is not building a permanent Olympic Village, it's building a super-green waterfront community on old industrial wasteland, that will be used for a few weeks by Olympic Athletes.

Don't expect Cadman and Louie to be available to explain why they kept their mouths shut before, though.

By the way, 'alive' sorry I offended you by agreeing with you. I did follow my affirmative with a direct comment headed to another poster. I still agree though. Who do think should give up power? The Cities, the Provinces or the Feds?

Oh Brother...

http://www.citycaucus.com/2009/01/olympic-village-multiple-choice-test

This whole thang is now turning into a political circus, with new VV councillor Geoff Meggs, former aide to NDP Premier Glen Clark, at the forefront.

When the dust finally clears it might just bite back.

Rman

The city will lose a minimum of 400 million dollars, 850 units(selling price) 500.000.00 maximum, that totals 425 million,the city will eat the rest!

Unless the real estate market bounces back,but all the experts say prices will not return to 2007 levels for at least a decade!

No worries though Rman,Campbell is going to allow ALL TAX PAYERS TO PAY OFF THIS BILL!Including tax payers in Surrey,Burnaby,Vancouver island,the interior,the north,everyone!

It is too bad the first 250 sales were just deposits from speculators, because if they actually had paid for their units there would be 250 million more in cash available!

realisticman said, "Remember

realisticman said, "Remember that the City is not building a permanent Olympic Village, it's building a super-green waterfront community on old industrial wasteland, that will be used for a few weeks by Olympic Athletes."
What is being built are condos that cost on average
$1 000 000 each. That sure is a lot of green. Who will buy them to get the city and/or province (i.e. me) out of debt for the cost of the project? Remember the market is now on a decline. Will Gordo take responsibility for that the way he blamed all the hard-times of the 90's on the NDP?

Of course

And he followed that - which didn't seem unreasonable since he had no clue how screwed up things actually were - by letting the good burghers of the city know exactly how incompetent the previous mayor and the NPA council had been.

I take it you've forgotten some of this, for example:
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Olympics2010/2008/10/06/OlympicVillageOverruns/

How be we turn over the village

How be the city turn over the village to the homeless of Vancouver when the athletes are finished with the place?

Don't Forget

" ... Suzanne Anton, told CBC Radio that the last council was hamstrung by a deal that included a large amount of costly social housing that was passed by the preceding council.

That council was dominated by the Coalition of Progressive Electors, a party closely allied with Robertson's Vision Vancouver."

CBC

Bwahhh Haahaa

Why would anyone, even the cluffmaster puff, pay any attention to anything that Susan Anton said about anything?

How's about lets house the homeless in Sammy's palace?

What Social Housing? Maybe we should ask Sammy about that - and find out if the 20 million dollars in his little party fund is now available for other than Olympic purposes too.

Let's cancel the party - we've been 'gamed'.

All Right...

The City of Vancouver presents its "Bid Book" for the 2010 Games.

Therein is expressly stated as follows:

http://www.vancouver2010.com/dl/00/50/30/-/50308/prop=data/13y6dp3/50308.pdf

Extremely important in terms of what has transpired thereafter. No council member thereafter can over-turn that written requirement. Neither COPE, VV, or NPA. Nope, not even when VV decided to oppose same in 2007.

And that's what has led to the alleged current debacle.

Newly elected COPE Mayor Larry Campbell, and the COPE-dominated council (now with the VV offshot) forwarded this letter to the IOC in 2002 (likely drafted by Geoff Meggs) confirming the Cov's whole-hearted support for the games:

http://www.gamesbids.com/english/archives/pdf/Letter_Rogge_Dec11_02.pdf

Newly elected VV councillor Geoff Meggs is Larry Campbell's assistant. He was also former aid to NDP premier Glen Clark.

Meggs was fully aware about the guarantee by the City to construct the Olympic Village years ago.

Today Meggs states as follows:

Meggs oughtta know better.

The "guarantee" or "completion guarantee" of the Olympic Village was already supplied years back to the IOC by the CoV, when he handled affairs for Mayor Campbell.

Since Meggs now seems to be spearheading the politics in this matter... this is now gonna get fun as things unfold. IMHO, dumb politics. But Meggs was Clark's aide, wasn't he? I guess that it bears repeating... "Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Meggs was aide to Clark and that turned out to be a disaster. He was aide to Mayor Larry Campbell and that turned out to be a disaster.

Now he's a VV councillor in the forefront advising Mayor Robertson on this matter...

Three strikes and you're out.

R'man

"" ... Suzanne Anton, told CBC Radio that the last council was hamstrung by a deal that included a large amount of costly social housing that was passed by the preceding council."

Hamstrung?

Hamstrung???!!!!

When Sam, Peter and Suzanne et al voted with Kim Capri's motion to reduce the social housing component from 33% to 20%, they didn't look any too hamstrung to me!

They were lucky Sam didn't get it to run it right off into the drink - Sam, the only councillor to vote AGAINST the Woodwards project in a 9-1 vote.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/11/17/JimGreenInterview/

Boy, doesn't that project look now like a model of enterprise-building, when set against the Communist Olympics Five Year Plan

Luke

Your earlier comment included:
Quote:

The City of Vancouver has
guaranteed to construct, at its cost, the permanent infrastructure and facilities for the Vancouver Olympic Village.

http://www.vancouver2010.com/dl/00/50/30/-/50308/prop=data/13y6dp3/50308.pdf

Extremely important in terms of what has transpired thereafter. No council member thereafter can over-turn that written requirement.

This does NOT include the housing. You will, have to dig up a different document for that.

In fact, your quote is immediately preceded by:
10 . 7 C O N S T R U C T I O N R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y
VANCOUVER VILLAGE
The site is currently owned by the City of Vancouver and will be either developed by the City or partially or wholly sold or leased to developers or non-profit housing societies that meet the requirements established by the City for the development of non-market and market housing. The terms of the agreements for development will include meeting the Olympic requirements, as it relates to the specific sites within the OIympic Village area.

And as defined in the Vancouver Building Bylaw - darn, another one of the pre-existing legal agreements - infrastructure is defined as roads, sewers, water, hydro and telecomm rights-of-way and the like, and facilities is defined as publicly accessible structures or conveniences including walkways, shoreline, bus stops, bridges, the list goes on and on...

...but expressly does NOT include market housing, that being contained in another part of the Vancouver Building Bylaw.

Geoff Meggs...

...was on CBC radio this afternoon and Stephen Quinn too was asking him if he was now trying to play politics. Meggs again pretended that it was all news to him.

Gregor is now running over to ask Gordon Campbell to help him out by skirting the referendum requirement for big-time funds. I wonder how Vancouver taxpayers will feel about that. Maybe Gregor should call Bob Rennie and offer a few more suites for the market and find a less glorious site for the non-market mix.

If the NDP campaign on retaining social housing in $1,000 sq' waterfront pads it might not play well in the boonies.

This has nothing whatever to do with the NDP

It has nothing whatever to do with Glen Clark

This is Sammy and Gordon's 'legacy' my friends...and they're going to have to eat it...slowly and with no relish whatsoever.

The party's over and it's time to pay the piper - the lies are coming home to roost.

And it's about time - maybe suggest another tax reduction in the February budget....

zalm...

That's all nice and fine... but the IOC is not interested in internal Vancouver by-laws and frankly, it's irrelevant to the City of Vancouver's previous express guarantee vis-a-vis the Olympic Village. For that matter, VANOC even contributed ~$30 million toward the social housing component. Still not relevant though.

I guess it bears repeating:

And that guarantee was provided by the City of Vancouver. Forget about any "Vancouver Agreement" (I don't have time to read same). But superficially it likely is superseded by the City's express guarantee to the IOC with the full knowledge of both the provincial and federal governments.

Tear it up

Just like the teacher's contract; the agreement with the health workers; the agreement with Crown counsel...the promise not to sell BC Rail; the commitment to build and fund 5000 NEW long-term care beds...whatever - I could name several more but I'm getting tired of shooting fish in a barrel - no sport to it anymore.

Those were guarantees too luke, how come no upset from your corner on any of those files? Fact is, this government has less credibility of a snake in the grass.

Now what were those total debt figures? Guess we can add a few more billion to that account as well.

Or, let the city go bankrupt - who cares as long as you and Gordon and Jessica have their little February party.

You never seem to read the important stuff anyway luke, how come?

This should do quite a bit for the city and the province's credit rating, wouldn't you think?

Nice friends!

And luke, you're always quoting the auditor general....

Perhaps you missed this, from his 2006 report:

The Auditor-General's report ... said the province had guaranteed all venue projects, by virtue of commitments made in 2002 as Vancouver was bidding to be the host of the 2010 Winter Olympics.

The report also said that if a venue's backers did not live up to their commitments, "... the costs will ultimately still fall on the Province since the venues will have to be completed - whatever the price in order that they be ready in time for the Games."

So, suck it up taxpayers

You're paying for Campbell's party...and the profits will already have gone to his friends...the same ones you'll find in the long list of business and corporate lobbyists included at this location:

https://eservice.ag.gov.bc.ca/lra/public_reports.jsp

realisticman...

Since everybody now wants to play politics with this matter (and the City is screwing its own financial position publicly, which people here likely don't understand), this is gonna even get more funny.

Glen Clark and the NDP brought BC the 2010 Olympics.

And now Glen Clark's communications director, Geoff Meggs (new VV councillor) is finger-pointing at others, when he apparently was involved himself personally with the 2010 Bid Book.

People just never learn politically. Betchya this will all eventually soon come out in the papers.

Nice try

Blame Glen Clark? Oh please. Campbell backed the Olympic bid from Day 1 and soon became its biggest cheerleader.

The people of Vancouver brought this on themselves. They had a referendum and decided a big expensive white elephant was just the thing they needed.

Cancel the olympics!

All very interesting, but has anyone considered to simply tell Vanoc that we have changed our minds?

That olympic organization need a shot of reality, it might as well come from us!

Since the vast majority only watches the games on TV anyway, why is it so important to invest in a new city every time?

For all the money spent they could even create an island somewhere exclusively for such future events, and still be saving money and inconvenience for the "host city"!

Why do we allow them to dictate what we are prepared to offer? The only reason seem to be because we are suckers!

realisticman - WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE?

realisticman
"Gregor is now running over to ask Gordon Campbell to help him out by skirting the referendum requirement for big-time funds."

What is the alternative? What happens if Victoria refuses the City's request?

realisticman, you seem to think this is a personal request from Robertson that Campbell help him out. Could it be that Robertson doesn't want to see the Olympic Village go uncompleted? What would happen to the entire 2010 games if construction on the Olympic Village were to stop next month?

Luke Skywalker- WHAT'S THE MOTIVATION?

Glen Clark and the NDP brought BC the 2010 Olympics.

And now Glen Clark's communications director, Geoff Meggs (new VV councillor) is finger-pointing at others, when he apparently was involved himself personally with the 2010 Bid Book.

When Clark was in office the Vancouver bid won selection as the Canadian bid. Vancouver did not win the international competition till Campbell was in office. At the time, BC Liberals were delighted, and refused to acknowledge that Clark's government got the thing rolling. Columnists like Mike Smyth, who ridiculed Clark years earlier for celebrating the first step, were happy to hear that BC was going to host a big international sports event.

Luke, I have quoted just one of your posts, but across several posts you and some others seem to have a very powerful fixation and a very aggravated distaste for Clark and Geoff Meggs. What's the motivation for that intense personal hostility and contempt?

alive

You'd need another referendum since it was already approved when Mayor Larry Campbell called one in 2003.

Geoff Meggs was hired by Larry Campbell to work on the Olympics programme, so he must have also been very close to the 2003 referendum. Ask him for another one.

Waterfront City Lifestyle

Can't wait to jump into one of those pedalos.

"April 5, 2006

...The developer will also design and manage construction of 250 units of affordable housing, a child care facility, community centre, non-motorized boating facility, and related underground parking facilities. The City will pay construction costs for these facilities plus a fee, which is roughly estimated to be $5 million. ..."

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/newsreleases2006/NRolympicvillagedeveloper.htm

Rod Smelser

The alternatives are;
Hold a referendum.
Sell assets.

NOT AT ALL REALISTIC. FUNNY IN FACT

realisticman

The alternatives are;
Hold a referendum.
Sell assets.

That's pretty funny, alright. There isn't time for a referendum, given the looming February deadline, and besides, who would be voting? Vancouver? BC?

Sell assets? In a declining market, that's going to take time and it's not going to yield anything like full cost recovery. I think what Robertson needs to realize, and everyone for that matter, is that this project long-term is going to involve a significant loss in the hundreds of millions, because the condo market isn't going to recover to 2007 prices in the next hundred years. This was a one time bubble, never to be repeated, which is a good thing overall.

Where is the opposition?

The fact that both the NDP and the Gliberals got us into this mess only shows that no one is representing the people in this one. What was the Green position on this bi-partisan dive into the cess pool of corporate welfare? Were they any different? That the NDP was involved only shows the danger of their right-turn over the last decade. We don't need a smiley face of corporatism, we need opposition!

Eleven Percent?

Do all Campbell's threepee buddies get eleven percent?

"The mayor disclosed last week that the city is on the hook for the entire $875-million Olympic village if it flounders financially, because of a completion guarantee the previous city council signed in 2007.

"Gaining extra borrowing powers would give the city a chance to seek alternative funding at a better rate than the 11-per-cent interest Fortress is charging on the $317-million it has advanced to date, and thus reduce financing costs."

Nice friends these Gordo buddies, eh?

Source:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090113.BCMILLENNIU12/TPStory/?query=frances+bula